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Speaker 1: We've spoken at lengths about the government's announcement last week

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Speaker 1: around raising the age of criminal responsibility and proposed changes

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Speaker 1: to mandatory sentencing. Now joining me on the line is

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Speaker 1: the Opposition leader Leah fanocchi Aro. Good morning to you, Leah.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. Until your listeners now, Leah.

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Speaker 1: These changes have raised concerns from some within the community.

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Speaker 1: Others have lauded the decision around raising the age is

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Speaker 1: brave and a step in the right direction. Leah, Will

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Speaker 1: you and the Opposition support the raising of the age

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Speaker 1: of criminal responsibility when it is debated at the next

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Speaker 1: sittings in November.

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Speaker 2: We absolutely will not, Katie. I can guarantee territory and

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Speaker 2: that this is a terrible move. It would just mean

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Speaker 2: less consequences, less accountability for offenders. It will not mean

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Speaker 2: less crime. And it's a very cynical way for this

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Speaker 2: government to drive down its crime stats essentially because anyone

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Speaker 2: committing a crime under the age of twelve it is

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Speaker 2: no longer committing a crime. They've given this age bracket

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Speaker 2: total immunity from the law. And what we know is

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Speaker 2: that there is serious violent offending, motor vehicle thefts, arm robberies,

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Speaker 2: all sorts of crimes taking place by ten and eleven

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Speaker 2: year old and now all of a sudden they're going

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Speaker 2: to be above the law. Leah.

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Speaker 1: There are obviously different groups, different health groups we know

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Speaker 1: as well the Children's Commissioner and others that have said

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Speaker 1: that this is a step in the right direction. The

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Speaker 1: Attorney General Chancey Peig has said that what we're doing

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Speaker 1: right now isn't working. What do you say to those

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Speaker 1: that actually think that this is a good thing.

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Speaker 2: I think they need to go and sit down with

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Speaker 2: victims of these people's crimes. They need to go and

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Speaker 2: sit down with the business owners who are barricading themselves

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Speaker 2: and sleeping in their businesses, the moms and dads who

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Speaker 2: are having to explain to their children why someone's broken

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Speaker 2: into their house and stolen their things or destroyed something

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Speaker 2: or stolen their car. I mean, this government is completely

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Speaker 2: offender focus and victims and the territory AND's right to

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Speaker 2: be safe is just completely left behind. I think the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory Police Association said it very well when they

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Speaker 2: because they're absolutely opposed to this as well, when they said,

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Speaker 2: why wouldn't you put the programs in place first and

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Speaker 2: then see if that's making any difference, and then look

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Speaker 2: at change in the age, not changing the age first

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Speaker 2: before we even have any programs in place, and the

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Speaker 2: reality is used in this age bracket will no longer

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Speaker 2: be able to be diverted by police because they won't

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Speaker 2: be able to be engaged with police at all. And

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Speaker 2: the NTPA i'd gone as far as saying, you know, basically,

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Speaker 2: if there's a child in that age bracket community a crime,

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Speaker 2: you know, don't call us. What exactly do you expect

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Speaker 2: police to do? So it just further disempowers our police,

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Speaker 2: further disempowers victims, and just continues to give more rights

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Speaker 2: to criminals than ever before.

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Speaker 1: Leah, what about those programs? I mean, what programs do

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Speaker 1: you think do need to be implemented here? And what

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Speaker 1: support mechanisms do you think need to be implemented here?

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Speaker 1: Because the reality is going to be that's you know,

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Speaker 1: presumably when this is debated in November, even if the

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Speaker 1: Opposition and the Independence don't support it, it is still

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Speaker 1: going to get across the line. So what do you

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Speaker 1: think needs to be in place to ensure that the

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Speaker 1: community is as safe as possible.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Labor will ram this through on their numbers, but

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Speaker 2: I can assure Territorians it is something that the CLP

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Speaker 2: would reverse if we win government in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: In the meantime, we can only hope that this government

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Speaker 2: is all of a sudden going to magically create programs

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Speaker 2: which in sixty years it hasn't been able to create.

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Speaker 2: We just had some responses back to written questions Katie

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Speaker 2: around how many youths had engaged in the two fun

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Speaker 2: camps that this government runs and calls diversion, and there's

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Speaker 2: a handful of kids. I mean, what we need is

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Speaker 2: serious intervention in these kids' lives. We need to make

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Speaker 2: sure that they're not in an unsafe home environment in

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Speaker 2: the first place, and be doing all of that prevention

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Speaker 2: work in the lead up. Because the child doesn't magically

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Speaker 2: become a criminal at eight years old, you know, something

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Speaker 2: terrible is going on at home. Something is definitely wrong

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Speaker 2: in that child's life, and that needs to be addressed.

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Speaker 2: But for these offenders, we need to be ensuring that

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Speaker 2: they're not out reoffending, that they're not out doing whatever

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Speaker 2: they want and destrain people's lives. That they're you know,

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Speaker 2: in a detention facility that's providing them then an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to turn their life around, not just back out on

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Speaker 2: the street committing crime night after night after night.

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Speaker 1: Nelia, have you had much of an opportunity to go

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Speaker 1: through those proposed changes when it comes to mandatory sentencing,

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Speaker 1: because you know, we have all been talking a lot

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Speaker 1: about raising the age of criminal responsibility and that change,

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Speaker 1: but there's also been some pretty significant changes announced again

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Speaker 1: that are set to be debated, as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: in those November sittings. Have you had much of the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to go through those changes and what do you

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Speaker 1: make of those?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, we're pouring through it now. What the government

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Speaker 2: did last week was pretty pathetic. They dumped a bunch

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Speaker 2: of massive amounts of legislation and serious legislation in an

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Speaker 2: attempt to just pass it under the cover of darkness.

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Speaker 1: They did that on purpose. Do you reckon? They did

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Speaker 1: it on purpose?

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Speaker 2: Completely, Absolutely, there's no question we've got massive changes to

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Speaker 2: the Anti Discrimination Act. They're removing mandatory sentencing for domestic

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Speaker 2: violence and drug offenses. They're bringing in the age of

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Speaker 2: criminal responsibility. This is all designed to be under the

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Speaker 2: cover of Christmas coming up at the end of the year,

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Speaker 2: and you know, then they're just going to move on

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Speaker 2: next year. It's an absolute disgrace that territories have one

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Speaker 2: month to consume as much change as what they're trying

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Speaker 2: to propose. So we're really concerned, obviously for the victims

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Speaker 2: of domestic violence that now their perpetrator won't even serve

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Speaker 2: mandatory prison time when they're breaching DeVos and in circumstances

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Speaker 2: like that, I mean, we put the victim first and

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Speaker 2: to have and they're often women, and they're more often

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Speaker 2: than not Aboriginal women, and yet this government saying it's

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Speaker 2: okay for them to continue to be in the presence

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Speaker 2: of their abuse, and we just think it's disgraceful, especially

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Speaker 2: if they're also removing mandatory sentencing around drug offenses and

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Speaker 2: things like that. We know they're looking at tresp us,

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Speaker 2: but we don't think it goes far enough that we'll

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Speaker 2: be engaging with business around the type of power they

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Speaker 2: really need to make sure that people who are causing

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Speaker 2: so much destruction in their businesses are able to be banned.

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Speaker 2: But ultimately, this is a this is a major major

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Speaker 2: step in the wrong direction where we're again putting the

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Speaker 2: right to offenders above the rights of victims. And what's

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Speaker 2: worse is, you know, our prisons are full, KDE, There's

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Speaker 2: no question about that. But instead of the government driving

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Speaker 2: down crime in the first place, they're just going to

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Speaker 2: send less people to jail. You know, that's not the

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Speaker 2: answer people. You know, no one wants to send someone

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Speaker 2: to jail, but if you're a really, really bad person,

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Speaker 2: where else can you go? And the fact that they're full,

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Speaker 2: The answer is not, well, let's just send less people

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Speaker 2: because we can't cope. The answer is we need to

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Speaker 2: stop crime happening in the first place. We need to

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Speaker 2: stop this trail of destruction and victimization that's happening in

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Speaker 2: the territory. Do you be communicating do.

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Speaker 1: You think that you know with these proposed changes to

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Speaker 1: the mandatory sentencing, I mean, they've said that it's not

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Speaker 1: going to include charges like murder, But do you think

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Speaker 1: that we are going to see a situation here where

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Speaker 1: there are people who've committed serious, serious offenses who ordinarily

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Speaker 1: would be doing time in jail that they're no longer

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Speaker 1: going to have to. I mean, the government's obviously saying

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Speaker 1: that they want them to undertake rehabilitive programs. Is that

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Speaker 1: not not good? Enough.

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely not good enough. It is a total load

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Speaker 2: of rubbish. The community has an expectation that people who

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Speaker 2: do the wrong thing go to prison and are not

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Speaker 2: allowed to continue to perpetrate on other people. Now, to

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Speaker 2: have serious, serious offenders to be able to stay out

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Speaker 2: on the street instead of going to prison under the

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Speaker 2: guise of completing some program which the government hasn't even

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Speaker 2: created yet, they don't even exist, they don't know what

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Speaker 2: they're going to be. I mean it looks something like this, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Perpetrator A should have gone to jail, doesn't under Labour's

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Speaker 2: new laws, and instead has to go, you know, one

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Speaker 2: night a week to some sort of therapeutic program, tick

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Speaker 2: and flick on the piece of paper. Yet by came

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Speaker 2: I went Meanwhile, what is the right of the victim

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Speaker 2: who's thinking I need some respite from this person, I

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Speaker 2: need an opportunity to get away from this individual who's

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Speaker 2: destroying my life. I mean, it's just absurdity. In the

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Speaker 2: next level, why isn't the government giving people this therapeutic

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Speaker 2: support they need in prison while they have them as

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Speaker 2: a captive audience. If you're a perpetrator and you're in prison,

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Speaker 2: there's no reason why five days a week, all day

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Speaker 2: you can't be getting the support you need instead of

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Speaker 2: getting it on the outside where you can continue to

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Speaker 2: be a threat to your victim.

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Speaker 1: Lea, I do want to ask you. I am just saying.

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Speaker 1: Right now on the Northern Territory News they are reporting

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Speaker 1: that essentially the Territories Hospitality sector is calling for a

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Speaker 1: youth curfew in Alice Springs to try and curb crime

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Speaker 1: and anti social behavior in the town. Hospitality Into Chief

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Speaker 1: Executive Alex Bruce has said that a curfew, with the

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Speaker 1: support of Alice of the Alice Springs community should be

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Speaker 1: trialed and rigorously, I should say, assess to determine its effectiveness.

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Speaker 1: What do you make of this? Do you think that

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Speaker 1: they should be trialing a curfew in Alice.

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Speaker 2: Look, it's something that's been talked about in Alice String

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Speaker 2: Springs through an extremely long time. I know the police

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Speaker 2: don't like the idea of it because they can't enforce it.

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Speaker 2: Again that it's not going to really impact on those

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Speaker 2: youths who are under that criminal age of responsibility, and

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Speaker 2: there are a lot of the kids who are actually

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Speaker 2: on the street. Police can't just arrest them. If the

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Speaker 2: age isn't there. And in Alice Springs they already have

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Speaker 2: the tanganjib bus services which effectively pick up kids all

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Speaker 2: night long and take them home. But look, you know,

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Speaker 2: if the government's going to try something, we will absolutely

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Speaker 2: support it, you know, whether it's curfew or not. I

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Speaker 2: think people are just absolutely chronically desperate for action. I mean,

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Speaker 2: at lunchtime today, Katie, I'm meeting with very angry business

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Speaker 2: owners in Yarrawonga who've been ram rated.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, go back. I will go to that in a second.

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Speaker 1: But so you don't you don't support a curfew in

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs.

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Speaker 2: No, No, If government's going to do a curfew, then

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Speaker 2: so be it. People absolutely want something to happen. It's

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Speaker 2: it's diabolical the situation down there. Whether or not it

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Speaker 2: can be resourced by police as a whole other question,

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Speaker 2: and I've got serious doubts about that and whether or

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Speaker 2: not it makes an impact, Well, I guess you only

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Speaker 2: know if you try. So you know absolutely if government

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Speaker 2: are going to do it, great, But you know Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs has got some well it.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't it doesn't sound aside the Chief Miness is going

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Speaker 1: to try it, she said. The Chief minister has defended

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Speaker 1: the government's approach to reducing crime and said there was

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Speaker 1: no intention of implementing a curfew. The proposal, though, does

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Speaker 1: have the backing of high profile Alice Springs independent MLA

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Speaker 1: Robin Lamley, who has indeed championed that youth curfew and

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs for at least fifteen years. But from your perspective,

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Speaker 1: unless it's something that the government's going to drive, it's

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Speaker 1: not something that the Opposition's going to be pushing for.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, our understanding on the ground in Alice Springs

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Speaker 2: is it's sort of fifty to fifty. Some people think

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Speaker 2: it will work, some people think it won't. The police

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Speaker 2: don't think it will work, and there's nowhere to take

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Speaker 2: these views. So there's a couple of just practical problems

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Speaker 2: with curfew. But I'm not saying it shouldn't be tried.

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Speaker 2: You know, we support anything different happening in Alice Springs.

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Speaker 2: They are absolutely at crisis point. I need support. There's

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Speaker 2: disappointing that government won't even entertain it. But yeah, they

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Speaker 2: would just have to be All I'm saying is for

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Speaker 2: a curfew to work, you would have to put some

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Speaker 2: additional scaffolding around that system to make it able to

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Speaker 2: be implemented currently as it stands, it couldn't just be

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Speaker 2: done overnight.

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Speaker 1: Yeah all right, So Leah, you are heading out to

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Speaker 1: Yarrawonga to meet with some of those businesses. We did

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Speaker 1: speak to Donna yesterday on the show from Mt Handrails,

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Speaker 1: I believe is the business after they'd been ram rated.

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Speaker 1: We'd also obviously spoken to Tui and Sloan out there

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Speaker 1: at Berry Springs on Friday. That was terrible. You know,

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Speaker 1: that was terrible situation. But you're heading out to Yarrawonga today.

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Speaker 2: I certainly am a Donna contact in US and I

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Speaker 2: said absolutely will come out. And you know that's in

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Speaker 2: my electric Katie, and it's a major issue. So businesses

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Speaker 2: are coming together and encouraged to come down and I

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Speaker 2: want to hear directly from them about how this is

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Speaker 2: impacting their business and the extreme extreme lengths they're having

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Speaker 2: to go to to barricade themselves in. I mean, if

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Speaker 2: you go to Yarrawonga, you know what after hours the

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Speaker 2: scene is, you know, rubbish being concrete blocks, any type

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Speaker 2: of bollard that they can find position on their fence

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Speaker 2: line just in case there's a stolen vehicle. Ram. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's just extraordinary. People can't keep living like this. We've

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Speaker 2: got business people sleeping in their businesses, spending it, going

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Speaker 2: to extraordinary lengths to protect their property, their staff, their products.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just too much for anyone to bear.

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Speaker 2: This is an absolute crisis. It's a tipping point, breaking point,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know what it's going to take for

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Speaker 2: the government to do something different, but clearly with this

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Speaker 2: suite of reform they've just introduced last week, it's only

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Speaker 2: going to get worse, not better. They're just not listening. Well.

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Speaker 1: Leah, we are going to be speaking to a business

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Speaker 1: person who is allegedly assaulted in coals in the Coals

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Speaker 1: complex in Alice Springs yesterday. We're going to be catching

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Speaker 1: up with that person just after ten o'clock this morning.

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Speaker 1: Please keep us up to date with how things go

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Speaker 1: out there at Yarrawonga. We will talk to you again

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Speaker 1: very soon.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, we'll do take care everyone.

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Speaker 1: Thank you,