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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, if you want to teach your children to respect differences,

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Speaker 2: we've got to get out of our own little silos.

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Speaker 2: We need to spend time with people whose values and

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Speaker 2: lifestyles are different to our own.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Collson, the founder of Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com dot I you, The author of seven

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Speaker 2: books about making families happy, The parenting expert on Chilling

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Speaker 2: Lines parental Guidance, The host of the number one podcast

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Speaker 2: in Australia about parenting and Happy Families, The guy who

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Speaker 2: did the video that got I'm sorry, I'm just going

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Speaker 2: on with it. Kylie looking at me like, really do

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Speaker 2: I have to put up with you? I'm here with

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Speaker 2: my wife and a month to our six kids. Kylie

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Speaker 2: podcast partner, what happened to your smile? I thought you

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Speaker 2: were in a good mood.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's kind of hard to stay focused sitting

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Speaker 3: in this office because I've got the mountains out the

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Speaker 3: window and I kind of just zone out every time

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Speaker 3: I sit here. It's really hard. We have we have curtains, we.

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Speaker 2: Have a new recording space because we've moved to the

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Speaker 2: coast and you can see the hills. They're alive.

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Speaker 3: Not with music this morning?

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Speaker 2: What's the matter, honey, you're not doing so great? Should

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Speaker 2: we get We'll get Jr. Two to give you some

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Speaker 2: with your with your vibe today?

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Speaker 3: Oh look, I'm sure there has to be a filter

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Speaker 3: or something you could use.

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Speaker 2: This is a podcast, not Instagram. I'm sor thirty on

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Speaker 2: the on Tuesdays every week where we can, we try

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Speaker 2: to answer listener questions and Hadijah has sent through a

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Speaker 2: question that I it broke my heart when I read

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Speaker 2: this one, and I thought we have got to talk

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Speaker 2: about this on the podcast. This is what Hadijha says.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to ask if you have some tips

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Speaker 2: and tricks to deal with differences. How do we teach

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Speaker 2: the kids' values that we believe in, but at the

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Speaker 2: same time teach them to be respectful of other people's

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Speaker 2: choices and values. That's the first question. I love that one.

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Speaker 2: It's kind of like that. I want my kids to

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Speaker 2: understand what we believe, but also be understanding that we

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Speaker 2: live in a pluralistic society and other people might believe

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Speaker 2: different things. How do we do that? And that's something

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Speaker 2: that you and I have wrestled with, Kylie, so I

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Speaker 2: think we can help Hadija with that one. But the

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Speaker 2: second part of her email was the bit that broke

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Speaker 2: my heart. She said, also, how do we teach kids,

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Speaker 2: especially girls, to be confident with their physical appearances. My

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Speaker 2: daughter in year one got told by her classmate that

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Speaker 2: she is brown, so they won't play with her. It's

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Speaker 2: heartbreaking when she came home and told me that We've

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Speaker 2: always taught her to be respectful and considerate towards others,

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Speaker 2: even if she doesn't agree with them, but it's hard

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Speaker 2: when other kids don't do that. So we have two

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Speaker 2: questions from Hadija to answering the podcast today, Kylie. We've

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Speaker 2: got an issue of racism, which we'll confront in the

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Speaker 2: second part of our podcast, but first up, teaching values

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Speaker 2: respecting differences. Here's how our family does it. Other people

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Speaker 2: do it differently. How do you help kids, especially young kids,

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Speaker 2: I mean even older kids. How do they get their

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Speaker 2: head around that We've dealt with This is a lot.

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Speaker 2: We've got a strong faith background, and therefore sometimes our

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Speaker 2: morality clashes with the morality of our children's classmates, and

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Speaker 2: they come to us and say, how come they get

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Speaker 2: to do that and we can't do that? Or why

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Speaker 2: do they believe that? And we believe this. It's it's tricky,

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Speaker 2: and that's what our society is. It is a great

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Speaker 2: big melting pot. What have you found? Has worked really

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Speaker 2: well for our kids.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the most important things we've done

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Speaker 3: is just helping our kids to understand that every home

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Speaker 3: is run differently, everybody sees the world differently, and everybody

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Speaker 3: is coming from a totally different experience and perspective. And

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Speaker 3: so in our home, we often talk to our kids

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Speaker 3: about the fact that what we do in our home

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Speaker 3: is ours and other people will have different ways of

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Speaker 3: doing things. That doesn't make either one of us right

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Speaker 3: or wrong. It's just different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So we've got, let's pull out a couple of

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Speaker 2: really obvious ones. In our home. We've made a conscious

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Speaker 2: decision to not drink alcohol or have tobacco products or

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Speaker 2: any other drugs, and we don't undertak coffee. And so

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Speaker 2: that makes us kind of weird, right, because the whole

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Speaker 2: world pretty much does at least one, if not multiple

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Speaker 2: of those things. We don't use course language in our home,

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Speaker 2: our family, and that again makes us kind of a

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Speaker 2: little bit weird. And we've even got fairly strict rules

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Speaker 2: around what movies the kids can watch at what age

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Speaker 2: is we try to limit their exposure to content that

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Speaker 2: might be for people lots. Sometimes we just think you

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Speaker 2: need to be more mature before you're ready for that content.

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Speaker 2: A lot of people are letting their five year olds

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Speaker 2: and their seve year olds with stuff that we don't

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Speaker 2: let our twelve year olds watch. And so the kids

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Speaker 2: come to us and say, it's not fair. How can

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Speaker 2: they get to do that? And I'm the only one

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Speaker 2: that's right, I'm the only one. And it doesn't even

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Speaker 2: have to be stuff that's around morality. It can be

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Speaker 2: stuff like how can they all get to have a

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Speaker 2: phone and I don't. I mean, it's just families are different.

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Speaker 2: How do you think that that's gone? Like you as

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Speaker 2: you reflect just now, do you think the kids have

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Speaker 2: gone and reasonably well with that? Do you think it's

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Speaker 2: caused any long term trauma? Do they let us resentfully

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Speaker 2: and think, my goodness, you're the worst parents because our

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Speaker 2: family is different to the family over there. That I

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Speaker 2: think is awesome.

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Speaker 3: Well, sometimes I think I'd like to be a fly

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Speaker 3: on the wall and hear the conversations that they have

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Speaker 3: with their friends, And sometimes I think I'm really grateful.

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Speaker 3: I don't know the conversations they have with their friends,

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Speaker 3: but I think for the most part, they've been pretty

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Speaker 3: accepting that that's just the way our family is. Whether

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Speaker 3: or not it's helped them to be more accepting of

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Speaker 3: other people's differences, I'm not entirely sure, But the reality is,

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Speaker 3: as a parent, I'm responsible for my children and for

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Speaker 3: the things that they do and they learn, and that's

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Speaker 3: my focus. That's where my investment is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I might have shared this story once

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Speaker 2: before on the podcast, but it's worth repeating here. That story.

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Speaker 2: I'm in the water with Emily, teaching it a body surf.

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Speaker 2: She's seven years old. She's scared of the waves and

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Speaker 2: she's not really catching any of the waves. I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to teach you to catch the waves, but she won't

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Speaker 2: do it, and so I said to her, Hey, Emily,

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Speaker 2: jump on my back and I'll catch the waves and

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Speaker 2: you can surf on my back while I'm doing the bodysurfing.

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Speaker 2: And so we caught four or five waves like that.

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Speaker 2: She just had so much fun and realized that she

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Speaker 2: could do this. But a wave came through that was

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Speaker 2: much bigger, and I said, let's catch this one, and

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Speaker 2: she jumped off my back and swam under the water.

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Speaker 2: She was scared. The wave was just too big. When

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Speaker 2: I asked her what had happened, she said, Daddy, want

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Speaker 2: to catch it. And I had this conversation with her

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Speaker 2: about trust. Do you trust me? What does it mean

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Speaker 2: to trust someone and help her to understand that if

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Speaker 2: you trust somebody, it means that you believe that they

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Speaker 2: want what's good for you. They want what's in your

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Speaker 2: best interest. They're going to act as your advocate, as

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Speaker 2: your support, is a helper. And I said, so I've

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Speaker 2: got you in the water and I'm teaching you to

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Speaker 2: body serf am. I going to put you on a

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Speaker 2: way that's going to give you a bad experience and

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Speaker 2: she went, well no, And I said, so I only

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Speaker 2: want you to have good experiences, right, uh huh okay,

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Speaker 2: So do you trust me that the next time a

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Speaker 2: big wave comes through, if I say we can catch it,

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Speaker 2: that it will be good? And so she said yes,

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Speaker 2: which meant that when the next big wave came through

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Speaker 2: and I said, here comes a big one. I think

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Speaker 2: we can do this one. It's going to be fun.

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Speaker 2: Do you trust me? She said yes, and we caught

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Speaker 2: the wave and it was great. And it's that same

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Speaker 2: the kind of thing when we're teaching our kids' values

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Speaker 2: that are different to the values that others might have.

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Speaker 2: We kin't have to say to our kids, do you

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Speaker 2: trust me? Do you believe that I want good things

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Speaker 2: for you? Do? Do you believe that I want this

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Speaker 2: to work out well? Because if you do, let's go

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Speaker 2: with this, Let's run with it. I'm trying to help

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Speaker 2: keep you safe. I'm trying to help you make good decisions.

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Speaker 2: I Candija, that's probably something useful that might lend itself

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Speaker 2: to a nice conversation with your six year old.

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Speaker 3: And even now as an eight year old, Emily's relearning

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Speaker 3: that lesson over and over again. The other day, Oh yeah,

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Speaker 3: skating endlessly decided she wanted to take off her safety

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Speaker 3: pads and we encouraged her not to, but she didn't,

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Speaker 3: and within thirty seconds she was flat on her back,

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Speaker 3: heard her elbow bawling, her eyes out, and we were

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Speaker 3: able to have the same conversation. Often our kids see

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Speaker 3: our values or our principles as restrictions. Yeah, they're stopping

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Speaker 3: them from doing things that their friends are doing, or

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Speaker 3: you know, stopping them from having fun. But they'll have

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Speaker 3: to relearn that lesson over and over again. And if

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Speaker 3: we can just be patient as parents and help work

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Speaker 3: through that, hopefully over time that will start to actually

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Speaker 3: be cemented.

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Speaker 2: So there's two other things that I really want to

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Speaker 2: throw in quickly before we go to a break and

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Speaker 2: come back and talk about the racism issue, and that

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Speaker 2: is I love to ask the kids what do you think?

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Speaker 2: So when the kids are like, oh, I want to

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Speaker 2: do this, hell come, I come up with this. Rather

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Speaker 2: than me saying here is the explicit value that we

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Speaker 2: have and this is why I'm not going to let

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Speaker 2: you do this, or this is why we're doing it

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Speaker 2: this way or not that way, I'll just say, well,

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Speaker 2: what do you think? And when they said my friends

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Speaker 2: get to do it, I say, well, why do you

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Speaker 2: think they get to do it? And why do we

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Speaker 2: do it differently? Like, I want the kids to think

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Speaker 2: through the rationale themselves, and the more that they can

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Speaker 2: explain that rationale, the better it seems to go. And

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Speaker 2: the last point that I want to make headija is

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Speaker 2: if you want you want to teach your children to

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Speaker 2: respect differences, we've got to get out of our own

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Speaker 2: little silos. We need to spend time with people whose

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Speaker 2: values and lifestyles are different to ourselves our own.

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Speaker 3: That kind of goes counter to what we normally do though.

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Speaker 3: We find our own little circles of people who are like.

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Speaker 2: Mind, everyone's just like me. Yeah, and it's really hard

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Speaker 2: to respect the differences of people that you don't have

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Speaker 2: any contact with. Once you start to bond over common humanity,

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Speaker 2: even if you see the world differently and have different values,

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Speaker 2: different ways of living, it makes such a difference. So

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Speaker 2: hopefully that's helpful. After the break, let's talk about a

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Speaker 2: six year old who's being told we're not going to

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Speaker 2: play with you because you've got brown skin, and is

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Speaker 2: experiencing body confidence issues. Just when you think you've got

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Speaker 2: this parenting gignailed, your child hits some new milestone that

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Speaker 2: leaves you figuratively banging your head against the wall. You wonder,

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Speaker 2: where's the instruction manual? Your growth guide? Is that instruction

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Speaker 2: manual a webinar outlining basic milestones so you know where

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Speaker 2: your child's at, where they're going, and what you can expect.

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Speaker 2: Get insights, reassurance and support from your Growth Guide, available

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Speaker 2: online at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers. Now, let's tackle this

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Speaker 3: body confidence issue.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so straight up, the first thing that I have

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Speaker 2: to say when I read Hadija's comment about her friends,

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Speaker 2: her little girl's friends saying, oh, well, classmates saying we

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Speaker 2: won't play with you because you have brown skin, we

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Speaker 2: need to call this what it is. I know they're

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Speaker 2: only but this is an immature, childish form of racism.

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Speaker 2: It's not racism in the same way that racism might

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Speaker 2: happen with a forty year old who's attacking somebody and

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Speaker 2: saying I'm superior to you because of my skin color.

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Speaker 2: But it's it's racism in its infancy, in its immature form,

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Speaker 2: and this is the time to stop it. This is

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Speaker 2: the time to intervene and explain what racism is, talk

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Speaker 2: about the harm that it can do, and make sure

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Speaker 2: that those children shift their thinking. It's much easier to

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Speaker 2: do it when you've got six year olds than when

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Speaker 2: You've got forty six year olds, so I would be saying,

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Speaker 2: really clearly, hadija talk to your school, explain what's occurred,

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Speaker 2: and make sure that there is effective, effective communication. It's

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Speaker 2: not about getting the kids in trouble and saying you've

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Speaker 2: been bad and you're racist, and that's not what it's about.

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Speaker 2: It's about saying, I wonder how you think she felt,

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Speaker 2: and let's create some perspective taking and some empathy.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the most important things that we

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Speaker 3: can do for children is to help them to understand

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Speaker 3: what do you what do you have? Similar? You both

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Speaker 3: have two sets of eyes, you both have two hands,

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Speaker 3: you both have a mouth and a nose, and you

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Speaker 3: both have the capacity to climb the stairs and you know,

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Speaker 3: run and jump on the trampoline. Like the only difference

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Speaker 3: between you and me is a color. But it shouldn't

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Speaker 3: actually change anything.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so if the school deals with this effectively, that

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Speaker 2: should be the last year hear of it. I mean, sadly,

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Speaker 2: we live in a society where we're surrounded by imperfect

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Speaker 2: people and it won't be the end of it, but

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Speaker 2: hopefully effective communication can mitigate, minimize this and stop it

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Speaker 2: from happening. It's just such a painful and horrible. What

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Speaker 2: a scourge, What an awful, awful thing to see.

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Speaker 3: But the reality is, whether it is the color of

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Speaker 3: your skin, or the way you talk or the way

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Speaker 3: you walk, there are always things that children.

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Speaker 2: Specific or the smell of your food. How come your

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Speaker 2: lunchbox thinks my lunch book doesn't smell like that.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be a racist act. We obviously

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Speaker 3: we're a Caucasian family. But I remember one of our

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Speaker 3: daughters coming home one day insisting that we buy her

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Speaker 3: a new school bag, and I, for the life of me,

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Speaker 3: couldn't work out. She had a completely working, functional school bag,

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Speaker 3: but she would not go to school until she got

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Speaker 3: a new school bag. And it wasn't until I sat

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Speaker 3: down and I spoke with her. She was having so

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Speaker 3: much trouble with friends that she, in her own mind

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Speaker 3: thought if she got a new school bag that she

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Speaker 3: would fit in with the kids. Because she was being

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Speaker 3: ostracized because she had a speech impediment. She's really struggling

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Speaker 3: to fit in. So regardless of whether it be a

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Speaker 3: racist act, we emphasize differences instead of focusing on similarities.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's talk more broadly about the body image issue,

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Speaker 2: because this is a challenge for parents of girls and boys,

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Speaker 2: but particularly girls, especially when they're young. So, if you've

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Speaker 2: got a daughter who's not doing well from her body perspective,

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Speaker 2: and it's not just about the color of her skin,

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Speaker 2: we're talking now about a broader issue, I think it's

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Speaker 2: worth highlighting. Research shows that as girls get older, their

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Speaker 2: participation in organized sport and recreation decreases, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of that has to do with body image issues. So

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Speaker 2: I'm going to highlight a couple of things. Number One,

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Speaker 2: if you want your daughter to love her body, you

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Speaker 2: have to love yours. You have to speak positively about yours.

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Speaker 2: When you and all of the other mums get together,

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Speaker 2: you can't start saying, oh, I've put on weight, or

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Speaker 2: I'm so unfeitter on this, or on that, I can't

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Speaker 2: believe what's happened to my face, or this or that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I hear these conversations all the time when

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Speaker 2: women get together, and men don't tend to have the

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Speaker 2: same sorts of conversations. Our daughters hear these conversations, they

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Speaker 2: learn that this is what women talk about. Got to

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Speaker 2: be an example of speaking positively about your body. But

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Speaker 2: also moving your body, using your body as a middle

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Speaker 2: aged mum or even as young mum, like be physical,

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Speaker 2: be active, show that your body is amazing. Which leads

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Speaker 2: to the second point that I would make, and that

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Speaker 2: is that if you want your daughters to love their body,

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Speaker 2: don't focus so much on how they look. Focus on

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Speaker 2: what they can do. You kind of mentioned that earlier, Kylie.

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Speaker 2: Your body can go up and down the stairs, or

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Speaker 2: it can jump on a trampoline, or it can roll

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Speaker 2: a skate or surf or swim. Your body can do

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Speaker 2: all this stuff, Like, let's just celebrate what your body

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Speaker 2: can do.

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Speaker 3: You know, as a mom of six children, having watched

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Speaker 3: my body morph, it's too many times to give almost

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Speaker 3: lost count, and just the shift in everything physical. I

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Speaker 3: have had plenty of times where I have really struggled

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Speaker 3: to appreciate what I saw in the mirror at different times.

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Speaker 3: But over the years, what I have really felt like

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Speaker 3: I've been very intentional about is just focusing on the

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Speaker 3: blessing of a body that works and functions and allows

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Speaker 3: me to live a life of goodness. And and so

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Speaker 3: with our kids, we don't really kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: like we don't really focus on how they look. You know,

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Speaker 3: we might acknowledge that they've got a beautiful dress on

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Speaker 3: because they're very excited about their brand new dress or

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Speaker 3: something like that, but it's we just I love seeing

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Speaker 3: them moving their bodies and trying new things.

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Speaker 2: I'm even thinking about what I say to you, like

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Speaker 2: I remember, I know that I say this to you often.

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Speaker 2: I don't. I didn't marry you for your body. I

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Speaker 2: married you for you like you're beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Ah, sure you didn't marry me for my body.

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Speaker 2: Well maybe there was a little bit of that as well,

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Speaker 2: but this is a g rated pairenting podcast, so let's

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Speaker 2: not go there. But do you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: Like when you've been complaining about your body and saying

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Speaker 2: I can't believe what's happened after this baby, or I've

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Speaker 2: let myself go, or is this or is that? And

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Speaker 2: my response to you always is, but I didn't marry

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Speaker 2: you for your body. I married you because I'm crazy

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Speaker 2: about you. Your body changes all the time, and maybe

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Speaker 2: we can say that kind of thing to our kids.

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Speaker 2: I don't love you because of what you look like.

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Speaker 2: I love you because you're you. I don't think you're

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Speaker 2: beautiful because of what you look like, I think you're

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Speaker 2: beautiful because you're you. You're created from me, and I

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Speaker 2: think I'm beautiful. Therefore you have to be beautiful because

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Speaker 2: look where you've come from.

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Speaker 3: So hasn't been talking. I have a vision I a

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Speaker 3: movie I once saw, and I can hear her voice

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Speaker 3: in my head. She's saying, you are kind, you are beautiful,

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Speaker 3: You're smart, something like that. Can you remember it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I can hang on a second. I'm just going

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Speaker 2: to type it in here. I'm not going to tell

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Speaker 2: you the movie. See if you can remember it. Here

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Speaker 2: we go. You is calm, you are smart?

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Speaker 1: You is d what.

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Speaker 2: You are smart?

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Speaker 1: You? You?

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. It's such a good movie, isn't it great?

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Speaker 2: So that was the help? Do you remember?

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Speaker 3: And especially in light of the conversation that we've just

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Speaker 3: been having, this is such a beautiful movie and a

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Speaker 3: depiction of you know, not noticing the differences.

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Speaker 2: So, Adija, we hope that we've been helpful in helping

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Speaker 2: you to teach kids values while respecting differences, but also

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Speaker 2: building body confidence and tackling the challenges that our kids

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Speaker 2: face as they're raised in a society that is not

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Speaker 2: always kind. Kylie, thanks for thanks for the chat. I

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Speaker 2: hope that there's been a good podcast experience for you.

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Speaker 3: I think I know that you finished up, but I

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Speaker 3: really you know, as I'm thinking about this whole body

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Speaker 3: confidence thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the more.

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Speaker 3: We focus on their bodies, the less confidence our children

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Speaker 3: will have. It's actually focusing on what's inside that will

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Speaker 3: make the biggest difference.

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Speaker 2: You're smart, you as kind, He is important. The Happy

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Speaker 2: Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 2: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Thanks so much for listening.

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Speaker 2: We appreciate it so much. If you enjoy the podcast,

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Speaker 2: would you please jump onto Apple Podcasts and leave us

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Speaker 2: a rating and review. Those five star ratings and reviews

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Speaker 2: help other people to find us and make their families happier.

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Speaker 2: And we think we give some pretty useful ideas and

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Speaker 2: advice to strengthen your family. So we would love it

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Speaker 2: if you could spread the word, maybe share the podcast

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Speaker 2: with somebody by clicking on those three little dots and

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Speaker 2: flicking a text message to someone. If you'd like more

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Speaker 2: info about making your family happier, you can find it

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Speaker 2: at Happy families dot com dot you