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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, kids in primary school, they don't need a smartphone.

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Speaker 2: Don't give it to them. Just don't. And if you have,

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Speaker 2: you can actually take it back. It's okay. They'll have

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Speaker 2: a big dummy spit, they'll be so cranky, tolways out

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Speaker 2: of the kind of dummy spit, but you can take

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Speaker 2: it off them.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 3: So I'm taking over the podcast today. I can tell

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Speaker 3: because recently I saw you on the Today Show and

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Speaker 3: you were talking about a topic that's pretty hot for

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Speaker 3: a lot of parents, and I thought that I'm going

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Speaker 3: to try.

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Speaker 2: And do what they did. I love that you're taking over.

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Speaker 3: So most parents want to know what the right age

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Speaker 3: is for their kids to do certain things. So I thought,

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Speaker 3: we're going to talk about it today. Okay, what's the

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Speaker 3: right age to leave our kids at home? I'llone yep,

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Speaker 3: to receive a mobile phone, huh. To have a sleepover yep,

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Speaker 3: or go to a sleepover probably is more important. Boyfriend

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Speaker 3: girlfriends status? How young is too young?

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Speaker 2: Yep?

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Speaker 3: And then there's notion of going to school on their

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Speaker 3: own and then lucky last, when are they old enough

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Speaker 3: to go to the shops on their own or maybe

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Speaker 3: even walk or ride their bike to school.

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Speaker 2: So I don't know how we're going to do all

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Speaker 2: of this in one podcast. We're going to have to

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Speaker 2: be tight and I can't help but think that you're

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Speaker 2: going to have some strong opinions about some of the

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Speaker 2: things that I've got to say. Okay, because we go

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Speaker 2: we haven't always agreed on these things. Where do you

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Speaker 2: want to start? Which one?

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Speaker 3: Well, let's staying at home.

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Speaker 2: Staying at home? Okay, there's plenty of.

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Speaker 3: Parents who both work full time. What happens when your

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Speaker 3: kid's sick and they're not sick enough that they need

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Speaker 3: a nurse to nurse them the whole way through the day,

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Speaker 3: but they're not well enough to be at school?

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Speaker 2: Sure, or you just want to run down to the

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Speaker 2: chops and grab something. So there's actually legislation around this

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Speaker 2: in Queensland. If you leave a child who's under the

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Speaker 2: age of twelve years of age for an unreasonable amount

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Speaker 2: of time without supervision and care, you have a television

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Speaker 2: supervision No it's not. You have committed a criminal offense.

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Speaker 2: But legislation only in Queensland. Yeah, only in Queensland where

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Speaker 2: we've got that age stipulated underswell, but it's pretty loosey goosey.

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Speaker 2: I mean, how much time is unreasonable?

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Speaker 3: Is it ten minutes?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? It all depends on the circumstances. If you're dropping

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Speaker 2: in next door to borrow a cup of sugar from

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Speaker 2: the neighbor, then you're probably aren't going to be five minutes.

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Speaker 2: But even if you get caught up in one of

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Speaker 2: those wonderful nahborly conversations, you say it's going to be five,

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Speaker 2: it is. There for twenty minutes. You're within a screams

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Speaker 2: distance of the house, you'll hear if anything went wrong,

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Speaker 2: and you can usually get home. So if you've left

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Speaker 2: your four year old in the bath, if you're.

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Speaker 3: Just at the neighbor's house, if you really left the kids.

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Speaker 2: Alone, well, if you've left you four year old on

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Speaker 2: the bath, then absolutely have like that would be completely inappropriate.

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Speaker 2: So that's in Queensland. Else for in Australia, the legislation

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Speaker 2: is even more loose, and what it basically says is

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Speaker 2: that you're legally obliged to make sure that your child

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Speaker 2: is safe and that their needs are met, and you

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Speaker 2: can be charged if your child is left in a

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Speaker 2: dangerous situation or not fed or clothed or provided with accommodation.

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Speaker 2: But I think you'll probably agree with me on this,

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Speaker 2: and that is that if you're going to leave you

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Speaker 2: kids alone, you need to consider a whole lot of things.

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Speaker 2: Number one, how old is my child? And how long

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Speaker 2: am I going to be gone? And how far am

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Speaker 2: I going? And how safe is my neighborhood and what

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Speaker 2: time of day is it? And what's my child doing

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Speaker 2: while I'm gone?

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Speaker 3: And what's the contingency plan if something went wrong?

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Speaker 2: And this is actually my big one, and it's the

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Speaker 2: one that most parents don't think about. Let's say you

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Speaker 2: leaving two or three of the kids at home. You've

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Speaker 2: got a thirteen year old and a seven year old

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Speaker 2: and a four year old and they have a fight.

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Speaker 2: What happens when they have this big blow up and

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Speaker 2: somebody ends up getting hurt if there's no adult there

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Speaker 2: to supervise. That's really ugly, and kids do fight, or

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Speaker 2: what happens if they're not doing anything wrong at all,

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Speaker 2: but they decide that they're going to have a swim

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Speaker 2: Because you're only going to be ten minutes, but you

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Speaker 2: did get caught up, and you get home and they're

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Speaker 2: in the swimming pool, and let's hope that nothing goes wrong. Well,

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Speaker 2: what happens if they're just chopping up an orange or

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Speaker 2: an apple and they slice through their hand, or they

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Speaker 2: are goofing off and having fun with sheets and cushions

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Speaker 2: and pillows building a cubby house and one of them

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Speaker 2: accidentally falls down the stairwell and bangs their head and

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Speaker 2: ends up unconscious. I know that sounds terrifying, and it

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Speaker 2: might sound like it's completely overdone, as if but if

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Speaker 2: we haven't taught the kids what to do in case

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Speaker 2: something happens on parental guidance, someone bangs on the door

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Speaker 2: and says, hi, I'm here with a parcel. Do the

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Speaker 2: kids know what to do about making noise responding to

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Speaker 2: somebody at the front door. These are the kinds of

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Speaker 2: things that I think matter much more than some of

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Speaker 2: the other things. And of course, never leave your kids

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Speaker 2: in the bath, or never leave the stove on and

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Speaker 2: the kids at home alone, those kinds of things matter

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 3: It was quite cute that the other day our thirteen

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Speaker 3: year old was at home and she heard the doorbell

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Speaker 3: ring right and went out and realized that it was

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Speaker 3: the mailman. Well, it was actually a delivery guy and

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Speaker 3: he was dropping off some of your books. And she

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Speaker 3: came back into the house. I must have been in

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Speaker 3: the bathroom, I think she came back out and she said, Mum,

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Speaker 3: it's okay, she said, I double checked. It was just

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Speaker 3: the delivery guy bringing dad's books, so I let him in.

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Speaker 3: If we hadn't watched parental guidance, it wouldn't have even

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Speaker 3: been a commonversation. But she'd done the observation. She checked

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Speaker 3: to make sure everything was safe and knew what was

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Speaker 3: what she was comfortable dealing with before she let him in.

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Speaker 3: And I just thought it's great because it's education, right.

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Speaker 3: It's helping her to recognize what are the parameters I'm

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Speaker 3: capable of working in before I need to involve somebody else.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what's the second one?

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Speaker 3: So how old should our kids be before we give

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Speaker 3: them a mobile phone?

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Speaker 2: I hate this question.

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Speaker 3: I knew you again.

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Speaker 2: It's the question that I get all the time. All Right,

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Speaker 2: here's how I'm going to approach this. There are so

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Speaker 2: many options out there for kids to have the ability

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Speaker 2: to contact us if they need us without them having

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Speaker 2: a phone. So what we do is we say, all

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Speaker 2: the other kids have got one, and if my child

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Speaker 2: needs me, then they need a phone. So I'm just

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Speaker 2: going to go on and get them a phone, and

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Speaker 2: we tend to give them like a hand me down

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Speaker 2: iPhone or some other kind of smart device. Don't do it.

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Speaker 2: For as long as you can delay, delay, delay, delay,

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Speaker 2: Even if a kid is the most unpopular kid at school,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say, don't do it. All the research

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Speaker 2: evidence that I've looked at shows that the younger they

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Speaker 2: are when they get a smart device, rate of the

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Speaker 2: risk that they are that they're out of experiencing mental

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Speaker 2: health challenges and all of the associated risks, explicit content,

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Speaker 2: the bullying, the fights over putting the phone away, going

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Speaker 2: to bed on time, being sneaky, just it's such a

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Speaker 2: headache once you let that genie out of the bottle,

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Speaker 2: once the horse has bolted. I can mix metaphors if

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Speaker 2: you want, But so I said this all the time.

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Speaker 2: Kids need smartphones, not smart parents. Sorry, let me say

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Speaker 2: that again. Kids need smart parents, not smart phones. I

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Speaker 2: can't believe that I got around the wrong way. Smart

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Speaker 2: parents give their kids dumb phones. I'm a big fan

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Speaker 2: of the Space Talk watch for kids in primary school.

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Speaker 2: They don't need a smartphone. Don't give it to them,

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Speaker 2: just don't. And if you have, you can actually take

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Speaker 2: it back. It's okay. They'll have a big dummy spit,

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Speaker 2: they'll be so cranky, toys out of the cot kind

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Speaker 2: of dummy spit, but you can take it off them.

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Speaker 2: The other thing that I would say is that once

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Speaker 2: they have one, you've really got to be clear on

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Speaker 2: the parameters. So our general guidance and advice has always been,

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Speaker 2: and what we've tried to do in our home with

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Speaker 2: reasonable success, is you don't get a smartphone till you

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Speaker 2: can pay for it yourself so you can go out

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Speaker 2: and buy it. We have loosened up a little bit

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Speaker 2: with our younger children, and I'm regretting it and trying

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Speaker 2: to find ways that we can work our way around it.

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Speaker 2: The great challenge, of course, is kids come home from

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Speaker 2: school with devices now as well. The school supplies the

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Speaker 2: computer or the iPad or the laptop or whatever is

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Speaker 2: going on, so there's a lay of complication around that.

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Speaker 2: But I still think minimizing their access to screens is

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Speaker 2: fantastic delayed as much as you can. When they can

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Speaker 2: pay for it, they can have one.

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Speaker 3: I think for a lot of parents, giving their child

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Speaker 3: a mobile phone is actually a convenience for them. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's so much better to be able to contact your

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Speaker 3: child when you want them in the moment.

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Speaker 2: But that's why I'm saying the space talk watch will

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Speaker 2: do the job.

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Speaker 3: Then having to wait our thirteen year old, she doesn't

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Speaker 3: actually have a mobile phone, and I needed her to

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Speaker 3: go and get some groceries from the shop. Our shop's

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Speaker 3: only eight hundred meters down the road. She gets on

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Speaker 3: her little bike and she rides down.

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Speaker 2: And she loves the independence of doing it, like she

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Speaker 2: really looks forward to it.

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Speaker 3: But she'd only just left when I remembered I hadn't

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Speaker 3: put an extra thing on the way through this.

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Speaker 2: Did you let her come home? And then you set

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Speaker 2: her back? I had to because I couldn't call her.

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Speaker 2: So she walked in the.

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Speaker 3: Door and I said, I'm so grateful that you did that.

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Speaker 3: Guess what And she looked at me and she said,

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Speaker 3: you forgot something else, didn't you. And I'm like, yep,

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Speaker 3: And I can't cook dinner until you get it.

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Speaker 2: See, I don't think that's a bad thing. I actually

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Speaker 2: don't think that's a bad thing, she said.

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Speaker 3: For a moment, it was like, damn it. If she

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Speaker 3: had a mobile phone, i'd be you know, I could

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Speaker 3: have got her and she could have done it all

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Speaker 3: in one go. But she loves, like you said, loves

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Speaker 3: the independence. And at the end of the day, it

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Speaker 3: just meant dinner was an extra half an hour late.

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Speaker 3: It didn't make any difference. So I'm really grateful that,

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Speaker 3: in spite of the challenge from time to time that

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Speaker 3: we're trying really hard to kind of just hold her

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Speaker 3: back as long as we can.

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Speaker 2: If only she didn't have a school computer. Okay, we're

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Speaker 2: running out of time. We've got a handful more that

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Speaker 2: you wanted to come out.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, I want to know how young is too

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Speaker 3: young for a boyfriend girlfriend relationship?

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Speaker 2: So we talked about this recent on the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It was Tuesday, the first of August. It was episode

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Speaker 2: eight one six twin Relationships. How young is Too Young?

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Speaker 2: We went into a lot of detail on this one,

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Speaker 2: but it is one of those things that comes up

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Speaker 2: all the time. The first thing I'm going to say

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Speaker 2: is it's a pet peeve of mine. I know that

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Speaker 2: other people won't feel as strongly about this as I do,

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Speaker 2: but I don't think that it's in anybody's best interest

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Speaker 2: for us to be making doing the match making, pairing

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Speaker 2: kids up and being all romantic about it when they're

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Speaker 2: four and five and six. I just don't think that

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Speaker 2: that's in anyone's best interest. Just let the kids be kids.

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Speaker 2: They will start to show an interest though, or around

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Speaker 2: about grade three, grade four, grade five, and our job

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Speaker 2: then is to talk to them about what a healthy

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Speaker 2: relationship is and find out what they mean when they're

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Speaker 2: talking about boyfriend and girlfriend. I really, really, really don't

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Speaker 2: think that we should be encouraging those little romances at all,

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Speaker 2: and I would be doing everything that I could to

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Speaker 2: minimize that even when they get older, though. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've actually said to our children, I'm opening up the

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Speaker 2: hidden cupboard here and letting you right under the hood.

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Speaker 2: Sorry mixed metaphor there, but you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: We've actually said to our kids, don't have a boyfriend,

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Speaker 2: don't have a romantic interest until you finished high school.

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Speaker 2: And that's been really hard for them to get their

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Speaker 2: head around, and they've not liked what we've said. But

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Speaker 2: our thinking is there is going to be interest, but

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Speaker 2: don't get too serious. What happens is if there is

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Speaker 2: any harm done, you have to go to school every

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Speaker 2: single day and see that person. And in relationships with teenagers,

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Speaker 2: especially in our pornified culture today, there are many many men,

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Speaker 2: and with the expectation that things are going to escalate physically,

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Speaker 2: there will be harm done in many, many, many relationships,

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Speaker 2: and then you've got to somehow process that and show

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Speaker 2: up the next day at school and the next week

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Speaker 2: and the next month and function and concentrate and learn.

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Speaker 2: And it's not just that, it's also the reputational harm,

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Speaker 2: especially if there's any image based abuse or sharing that's

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Speaker 2: been going on. Everybody knows, everybody's seen, and just the.

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Speaker 3: Social challenges that are associated with it. You know, when

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Speaker 3: you yeah, friendship groups, things break up all of a sudden, Oh,

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Speaker 3: I can't hang out with that group anymore. Or your

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Speaker 3: friends feel torn because they want to hang out with them,

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Speaker 3: but they want to be loyal to you, and.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I went pretty extreme. You've just talked about the

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Speaker 2: basic stuff it interfares, and for the younger years, that's

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Speaker 2: going to be the bigger issue. Right grade seven, grade eight,

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Speaker 2: grade nine. Then you get into the more senior years

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Speaker 2: and you encounter those big challenges. I would I think

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Speaker 2: a frank conversation with the kids about this stuff will

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Speaker 2: go a long way and discourage the relationships until they're

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Speaker 2: old enough to process them and manage them and navigate

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Speaker 2: them healthily. What about sleepovers, Oh gosh, most controversial topic

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Speaker 2: that we can talk about, and I don't think we've

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Speaker 2: got the time to do it properly. If I was

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Speaker 2: to put an age on it, I would say the

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Speaker 2: older the better, and I wouldn't encourage it. Be low

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Speaker 2: about the age of ten. No matter how well you

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Speaker 2: think you know, you just never do. You and I

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Speaker 2: both have heard so many stories from devastated parents whose

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Speaker 2: children have been harmed one way or another at a sleepover.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just bullying and stupidity because kids don't know

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Speaker 2: how to handle themselves once they're tired and it's eleven

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Speaker 2: o'clock at nine or two o'clock in the morning. But

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Speaker 2: other times it's genuinely horrible harm. Okay, So if the

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Speaker 2: kids are going to have a sleep over, here's what

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Speaker 2: I would say. Know who's in the house. Know who's

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Speaker 2: in the house, because if they've got visitors, if they've

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Speaker 2: got an uncle who's staying, or a mate who's just

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Speaker 2: come into town and just staying for a couple of nights.

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Speaker 2: You just need to know who's there, and you want

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Speaker 2: to know the people absolutely, unquestionably, And I know that

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Speaker 2: I'm picking on men here, but unfortunately the research is

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Speaker 2: abundantly clear that men are the most likely ones to

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Speaker 2: hurt our kids. So is there a big brother and

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Speaker 2: how big and is that kid going to have any

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Speaker 2: access to where your kids are hanging out and doing

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Speaker 2: their thing?

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Speaker 3: And maybe it's not physical harm.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's exposure to something explicit on the internet, conversations

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Speaker 2: that they're not supposed to be having, there's all those

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Speaker 2: kinds of things. You need to know the family well.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to say this controversially and provocatively, don't

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Speaker 2: trust your guart because that's what pedophies rely on. They

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Speaker 2: build relationships to make you trust them. You think, oh,

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Speaker 2: they're fine. Don't actually trust your guard I think that

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Speaker 2: you've got to ask some hard questions when you drop

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Speaker 2: the kids off, like especially the first time. Like once

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Speaker 2: you've developed a relationship, maybe you can ease off on this,

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Speaker 2: but you need to ask what supervision is there going

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Speaker 2: to be? Are there any visitors, are there any odder siblings?

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Speaker 2: Is alcohol going to be available? Now? Obviously with young kids,

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Speaker 2: that's not going to be an issue for the kids,

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Speaker 2: but are any of the parents going to be drinking?

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Speaker 2: Because you need to know that there's at least one

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Speaker 2: sober parent. If the kids are all having a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of fun and the parents think that they're going

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Speaker 2: to have a few as well, if the child gets injured,

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Speaker 2: who's going to take them to the hospital? Like what

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Speaker 2: can we do to make sure that the kids are safe?

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Speaker 2: That's my whole thing. And the last thing I'll say

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Speaker 2: on this is you've got to teach your child what

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Speaker 2: to do if a situation feels lousy, if they're feeling

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Speaker 2: threat and if they're feeling uncomfortable, if they're feeling unsure,

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Speaker 2: can they leave the room when the computer screen comes out?

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Speaker 2: Do they know how to say no, that's not cool

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Speaker 2: when somebody's being picked on or if there's any sense

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Speaker 2: of threat, do they know how to go to the

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Speaker 2: bathroom and send you a quick text message even if

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Speaker 2: they're using a space talk watch, Like, do they know

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Speaker 2: how to do that? And then you've got to make

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Speaker 2: sure that you're available to respond.

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Speaker 3: There's only been a handful of times where our kids

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Speaker 3: have actually reached out to us while they've been with

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Speaker 3: other people and have felt like they needed to come home.

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Speaker 3: They didn't feel comfortable, not necessarily unsafe, just not comfortable

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Speaker 3: with what was going on. But they also didn't want

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Speaker 3: to be seen to be ringing mummy to come and

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Speaker 3: pick them up. And so we have always acknowledged to

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Speaker 3: them that we're happy to be the bad guy. And

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Speaker 3: so in those instances, the kids have literally just sent

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Speaker 3: us an emoji that has helped us to recognize that

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Speaker 3: we need to call them and ask them to come home.

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Speaker 3: And so we've made a phone call and said, look,

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Speaker 3: it's really late and I need some help. First thing

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Speaker 3: in the morning, can you you know, I know you

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Speaker 3: were hoping to spend time with your friends, but can

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Speaker 3: you come home? And they've been like, yes, that's fine,

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Speaker 3: and then say to their friends, Oh, this is so bad.

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Speaker 3: I can't believe my parents are doing this, but I

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Speaker 3: have to go home.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, blame the parents.

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Speaker 3: And so we've been really happy to play that role

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Speaker 3: for them to enable them to save face with their friends.

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Speaker 3: But also help them to feel comfortable knowing that they

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Speaker 3: can come to us. Just is so important? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's so important.

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Speaker 2: Now we're almost at we are out of time? Are

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Speaker 2: there anymore? Have we covered it all off?

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Speaker 3: When do you let your kids walk to school or

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Speaker 3: go to the shops.

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Speaker 2: As early as possible? As early as possible, As early

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Speaker 2: as possible, But but you do need to take the

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Speaker 2: circumstances into account, like how many big roads are there,

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Speaker 2: how far is the distance, what time of the day

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Speaker 2: is it. Have they done it before? Can they go

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Speaker 2: with an older sibling or a friend. You want to

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Speaker 2: make sure that you're keeping them safe. But I just

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Speaker 2: think as early as possible. I like the idea of

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Speaker 2: them being able to do it with a friend or

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Speaker 2: with a sibling from about the age of nine, eight

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Speaker 2: or nine, depending again on how far it is and

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Speaker 2: what time of day it is and all those questions.

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Speaker 2: And I like the idea of them being able to

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Speaker 2: do it on their own from about eleven or twelve.

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Speaker 2: I just think we ask so much of our children

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Speaker 2: emotionally in an unfair way, little of them physically that

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Speaker 2: they're capable of. And that's what I would love to

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Speaker 2: see do you want to push back? Are you mad

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Speaker 2: at me for saying that? Have I gone too young? No?

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Speaker 3: I think we need to know our kids. And like

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Speaker 3: you said, there's so many variables around it. But if

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Speaker 3: you feel like you're in a safe environment, you've got

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Speaker 3: a great neighborhood, and your kids are going to listen

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Speaker 3: to each other, that's the big thing.

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Speaker 2: They go for it. Yeah, yeah, okay, I've got one.

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Speaker 2: We don't have time for it, but I've got one

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Speaker 2: for you. But you did not know is coming. How

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Speaker 2: old do the kids need to before they can get

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Speaker 2: their ears pierced?

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Speaker 3: I'll see in my I'm going to say in my house.

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Speaker 3: In our house, the rule has always been that I

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Speaker 3: would wait until they asked. Yeah, so it's been different

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Speaker 3: for each of them. Okay, number one she decided it's

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Speaker 3: seven she wanted to, and our last one she was

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Speaker 3: like really really excited about doing it at about seven,

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Speaker 3: and then I told her it was going to hurt,

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Speaker 3: and I just explained to her what it would be like.

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Speaker 3: She said, yeah, actually, no, I don't feel like doing that.

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Speaker 3: So she waited until she was nine. So for me,

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Speaker 3: it really I don't care what age. I don't have

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Speaker 3: a problem with it at all, but I'm not going

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Speaker 3: to inflict paying on my child unnecessarily. They will make

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Speaker 3: the decision, and they will understand and know how it's

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Speaker 3: going to go, what it's going to feel like, and

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Speaker 3: then they can make their own mind up.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rowlin from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Hey, we

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Speaker 2: really hope that we've given you some food for thought.

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Speaker 2: If you agree with this, that's great. If you don't,

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Speaker 2: we want to hear from you. Podcasts at Happy families

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Speaker 2: dot com dot you A quick reminder as well. The

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Speaker 2: Smells Like Teen Spirit Summit tickets are on sale now.

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Speaker 2: The early bird special doesn't last for long, so make

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Speaker 2: sure you get in incredible lineup. It's going to be phenomenal.

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Speaker 2: All the details at doctor Justin Coulson's Happy Families on

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Speaker 2: Facebook and Instagram, or at Happy Families dot com dot

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Speaker 2: a u