Speaker 1: Good a.
Speaker 2: Peter Helly here, Welcome to you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet
Speaker 2: The movie podcast, where I chat to a movie lover
Speaker 2: about a classic or beloved movie they haven't quite got
Speaker 2: around to watching until now. And today's guest singer songwriter
Speaker 2: Ben Lee.
Speaker 1: Every Day's from the Devil of the pale light.
Speaker 3: Of all the gin joints in all the towns in
Speaker 3: all the world.
Speaker 1: She walks into mines, put me happening right, you' nothing?
Speaker 3: Ben Lee is all heart and all soul.
Speaker 2: Bursting onto the Aussie music scene as a teenager, Ben
Speaker 2: was signed to indie labels by Sonic Youths, Thirst and
Speaker 2: More and then Mike d from the Beastie Boys. Ben
Speaker 2: was clearly a teenage prodigy who has grown and one
Speaker 2: audiences all around the world with his heart on his sleeve,
Speaker 2: bangers such as Cigarette Can Kill You, Gamble Everything for Love,
Speaker 2: Catch My Disease, and his new banger like This or
Speaker 2: Like That. And let it be known also that Ben
Speaker 2: was telling Australia that we are all in this together
Speaker 2: before there was a bloody pandemic. Ben has never been
Speaker 2: afraid to speak his mind. Now, when you say that
Speaker 2: of someone you often think of rebel rouse as agitators,
Speaker 2: right wing commentators, but not Ben. He doesn't say things
Speaker 2: just to get under people's skin. Ben comes from a
Speaker 2: place of honesty and kindness. Ben is a rare beast
Speaker 2: who never seems defined by one thing. Undoubtedly it's his
Speaker 2: passion for music that drives him, but he's also active.
Speaker 2: Check out The Rage in Placid Lake with Rose Burn,
Speaker 2: Gary McDonald and Miranda Richardson. He's been a death doller
Speaker 2: and has recently appeared on Australia as the mass singer.
Speaker 2: Ben has always worn his heart on his sleeve. He's passionate,
Speaker 2: he's talented, and I'm bloody stoke to be hanging with
Speaker 2: him today.
Speaker 1: Hey, I'm Ben Lee. My three favorite films are Simple
Speaker 1: Men by Hal Hartley. I'm not going to fall in
Speaker 1: love with her. That'll show The King of Comedy by Scorsese.
Speaker 1: You've got to start at the bottom. I know that's
Speaker 1: where I am.
Speaker 4: At the bottom.
Speaker 1: That's a perfect place to start. And the movie Only
Speaker 1: So this year got about endlessness. I was the fantastis,
Speaker 1: but until recently, until a few days ago, I'd never
Speaker 1: seen the movie The Club.
Speaker 2: Well, you work to work a living, not on weekends
Speaker 2: comes the time.
Speaker 3: You can do whatever turns you want.
Speaker 1: Help can clear your mind?
Speaker 3: Me a lake football? Yes, I like football too.
Speaker 2: And politics is a dirty game, and so is it,
Speaker 2: turns out Australian rules football. According to Bruce Beresford's nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty Ossie classic The Club, It's at times absurd but
Speaker 2: a reasonably touching look at Australia's native game, based on
Speaker 2: legendary Ossie player right David Williams in stage play and
Speaker 2: the dept of the film from a script by Matt Carroll.
Speaker 2: The Club season team that may or may not be Collingwood.
Speaker 2: It is in a form slump on and off the field.
Speaker 2: Club legends go toe to toe in the boardroom as
Speaker 2: their season gets bleaker and bleaker, not helped by their
Speaker 2: hot shot recruit from Tasmania, Jeff Haywood played by the
Speaker 2: not Prome Minister John Howard, is taking scant interest in
Speaker 2: chasing a pig skin around a noble In fact, he's
Speaker 2: more interested in spoking us.
Speaker 3: Than laying a tackle.
Speaker 2: But if they can just get Jeff to buy in,
Speaker 2: then maybe, just maybe, this season isn't dead just yet,
Speaker 2: Even if the bodies in the boardroom are beginning to
Speaker 2: pile up, Ben Lee, whenever you have performed, has a
Speaker 2: seagull ever attracted your gaze quite like it did Jeff
Speaker 2: Haywood's No.
Speaker 1: He but that was also the weed, wasn't it Like
Speaker 1: there was you know, it wasn't just your glory of
Speaker 1: the seagull? Yeah, I mean everyone, and then you do.
Speaker 1: I think also with performance, the more comfortable you get
Speaker 1: in it, like if you've been on tour a long time,
Speaker 1: or if you're in a play I guess, and you
Speaker 1: do the same thing every time. One of the joys
Speaker 1: of it is that your mind can drift and your
Speaker 1: body can still perform the automatic movements, and I actually
Speaker 1: find some comfort in that that the mind can go
Speaker 1: into weird places. But I imagine in sports where you're
Speaker 1: not really doing the exact same thing every time, like
Speaker 1: you have to be alert in a way. Getting obsessed
Speaker 1: with seagulls, might you know ruin your performance or something?
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I first of all, thanks so much for doing
Speaker 2: the podcast. It does involve some homework. You did nominate,
Speaker 2: as most people do. When I asked in the nominate
Speaker 2: the film that I asked you to nominate. A couple
Speaker 2: of films in case we'd already covered one or that,
Speaker 2: you know, for various reasons.
Speaker 3: And there were three films.
Speaker 2: I think it was eight and a half Eleen he's
Speaker 2: eight and a half, Animal Kingdom and the Club, and
Speaker 2: I said, let's do it, let's do a nassy film.
Speaker 2: And you chose the Club. Why out of all the
Speaker 2: films that you haven't seen, did the Club kind of
Speaker 2: you know, reach out to you?
Speaker 1: I think, I mean Animal Kingdom like comes from a
Speaker 1: world that I very much know. Like it's sort of
Speaker 1: my generation of Australian filmmaking, so it's a little bit
Speaker 1: less mysterious as much as the you know, it's great
Speaker 1: to enjoy the craftsmanship of your generation and stuff. It's
Speaker 1: a bit like I get it, you know, I get
Speaker 1: where it comes from. Yeah, these people eight and a
Speaker 1: half I've never seen, but I love I just know
Speaker 1: I'm going to love it when I do see it.
Speaker 1: I love everything that's been influenced by it. I love
Speaker 1: surrealism and I love trippy felliniesque dream scapes and that
Speaker 1: whole thing. The Club is about something that is both
Speaker 1: I'm resistant to, which is like marcho Australian sports culture,
Speaker 1: and also it's like it's more connected to in a
Speaker 1: sense what I like forces that were probably influential growing
Speaker 1: up to me. And like, you know, I was born
Speaker 1: in seventy eight, so the eighties in Australia, that type
Speaker 1: of culture around sports and guys, you know, blokes, and
Speaker 1: what the values were on politics and all that. It
Speaker 1: was very like, yeah, I'm resistant to it, and I
Speaker 1: was curious to see, like if I could learn anything
Speaker 1: and maybe to understand about myself more and how I've
Speaker 1: because like I think for a lot of like artistic
Speaker 1: males of my age, redefining masculinity and what that looks
Speaker 1: like as an Australian guy has been a huge priority
Speaker 1: for us. So it's kind of sometimes good to get
Speaker 1: into the depths and go, well, what was it traditionally
Speaker 1: and what can we learn from it, and what earlier
Speaker 1: critiques of it existed that might still be relevant or
Speaker 1: might be outdated, and kind of looking at all of.
Speaker 2: That absolutely, and there is so much to jump into
Speaker 2: about the club. And I do want to talk about
Speaker 2: your three favorite films. And I think this is the
Speaker 2: first time this has come up. There's occasionally there's been
Speaker 2: I think one where I haven't seen one of my
Speaker 2: guest three favorite films. I haven't seen two of these films,
Speaker 2: which let's begin with a Simple Men. I've not seen
Speaker 2: Simple Men. Tell us about that.
Speaker 1: Well, how Hartley was like the you know, late eighties
Speaker 1: into the nineties kind of like indie rock filmmaker, Like
Speaker 1: he was making films from the same place that like
Speaker 1: to me, like you know, maybe like Sonic Youth were
Speaker 1: making music or it was this very like it was
Speaker 1: it was all there was almost like an anti performance,
Speaker 1: anti cinematic thing going on in it, but it was
Speaker 1: very dialogue based. God, it's so hard to describe. And
Speaker 1: it's also it was so influential on me as a teenager.
Speaker 1: The way I thought about it's hard to just gob
Speaker 1: his movies, Like they're not naturalistic at all, but they're
Speaker 1: almost a type of like American suburban surrealism that is
Speaker 1: just really spoke to me. Yeah. Yeah, So I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know what you got to see it?
Speaker 3: So who's in that? Who's in Simple Man?
Speaker 2: Uh?
Speaker 1: Martin Donovan was like probably one of the most famous actors,
Speaker 1: but not super famous, but he was known for being
Speaker 1: in several how Hartley film.
Speaker 2: Yes, he was wasn't he I recognized how because I'm
Speaker 2: trying to think of how Hartley's other films, because I
Speaker 2: went through I'm a really good friend of mine, just
Speaker 2: loved Hell Hartley growing up, and you know, and she
Speaker 2: was very also very alternative, like Hell Hartley is fair,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: I like she introduced me to do a lot of
Speaker 3: these people. But I'm just trying to remember, of course
Speaker 3: Hell Hartley's other.
Speaker 1: Well, there was a trilogy, There was Simple Man, Trust
Speaker 1: and The Unbelievable Truth. Those three all sort of operated
Speaker 1: in the same universe, and then you know, he went
Speaker 1: on and did a bunch of other stuff. He's just
Speaker 1: someone who really had his own rhythm. And I really
Speaker 1: like that in artists, like people that exist sort of
Speaker 1: in their own universe and just make continue to layer
Speaker 1: on it and construct. Yeah, a whole way of looking
Speaker 1: at the world. And also I kind of like that
Speaker 1: it's sort of like bad some of it, like bad
Speaker 1: acting or what we might call bad acting. But you
Speaker 1: also realize that we've kind of been indoctrinated post Marlon
Speaker 1: Brando in thinking that naturalism is the only style of acting.
Speaker 1: And I actually think that's why Johnny Depp is kind
Speaker 1: of interesting he's not my favorite actor at all, like
Speaker 1: in terms of how he speaks to me. But he
Speaker 1: was interested in non naturalistic acting and more type of
Speaker 1: presentational like Greek tragedy type thing. And and I think
Speaker 1: there are all these other ways of telling stories that
Speaker 1: aren't just sort of this Brando esque let me take
Speaker 1: you into like the depths of my pain and really
Speaker 1: demonstrate my suffering. It's like, there's just other ways of
Speaker 1: telling stories with cinema. And I found how hotly just
Speaker 1: it's interesting that he wasn't tempted by naturalism in the
Speaker 1: same way that most filmmakers have been in the last century.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting when we look at film. People
Speaker 2: who are just watching films are thinking about the acting style.
Speaker 2: When they're watching it, they either make their choice that
Speaker 2: it's a good performance or a bad performance. But you're right,
Speaker 2: there is naturalistic acting. There is you know, there's Aaron
Speaker 2: Sorkin acting. You know, they're they're they're even the club
Speaker 2: isbviously it's set on a stage play and it kind
Speaker 2: of feels a bit like you know that it is
Speaker 2: a play in and that how acting has evolved so
Speaker 2: much over the years. I actually watched this is this
Speaker 2: is moving on to a degree. But I watched Squid Game.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you've seen a good.
Speaker 1: No, but I've been obviously seeing the memes. Y.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 2: And I'm this kind of you know, Korean cinema and
Speaker 2: TV is having and deservedly its moment in the sun,
Speaker 2: at the moment, you know, post Parasites win a couple
Speaker 2: of years ago. But and I just put out a
Speaker 2: tweet saying, wow, squid Games made and bold choices and everyone,
Speaker 2: so what else?
Speaker 3: What other Korean cinema can I dive into?
Speaker 2: And people are throwing stuff in Then there's one person
Speaker 2: who said I couldn't.
Speaker 3: I couldn't watch Squid Game. The acting was horrible.
Speaker 2: And I replied, I said, by any chance, did you
Speaker 2: watch it in Korean or did you watch it with
Speaker 2: the American overdub?
Speaker 3: And I said the American overduble.
Speaker 2: I said, well, that's that's that's not that wasn't There
Speaker 2: is a performance going on, but it's not the performance
Speaker 2: given by the actors. It's that's a performance given by
Speaker 2: somebody in the voice over booth in Los Angeles.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: But if you watch actually the the Korean performances, you know,
Speaker 2: as intended it's extraordinary performances.
Speaker 3: So yeah, well.
Speaker 1: That's another Yeah, that's another aspect, like the cultural expectations,
Speaker 1: and like there's a whole history of like different ways
Speaker 1: of cultures relating to theater, like using masks and using
Speaker 1: shadows and using like like. But we tend to be
Speaker 1: very binary in the way we seek culture. I think
Speaker 1: in the West, and there's like good acting and bad acting,
Speaker 1: as good music and bad music, as opposed to oh
Speaker 1: that made me feel something, yeah, and that didn't. And
Speaker 1: I tend to prefer looking at work in that way
Speaker 1: like like wow, that made me a little uncomfortable and
Speaker 1: I felt something unusual, And that is a totally valid
Speaker 1: audience experience.
Speaker 2: In my book, Absolutely, I have seen The King of Comedy,
Speaker 2: Mountain Scorsese, Robert de Niro, extraordinary, this extraordinary film. It's
Speaker 2: it's one of those you know, it's a Scorsese film
Speaker 2: that can can be forgotten about in some in some circles,
Speaker 2: amongst the Taxi Driver and and and and others. So
Speaker 2: why does King of Comedy kind of jump out from
Speaker 2: all the other scorse films.
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting because with Scorsese and with Woody Allen.
Speaker 1: My favorite works. Each of them are works that they
Speaker 1: essentially turned their backs on and considered failures. Like I
Speaker 1: like Interiors, That's probably my favorite Woody Allen movie. And
Speaker 1: I like King of Comedy. And it's funny that, like
Speaker 1: the point where they feel they missed the mark, some
Speaker 1: of these sort of cinematic masters, like you know, take
Speaker 1: the other issues out of it, but just being you know,
Speaker 1: great filmmakers. To me, it's just weird that like where
Speaker 1: they would think they missed the market. Like Scorsese was
Speaker 1: very he doesn't talk about that film a lot. I
Speaker 1: think he considers that sort of a departure from his
Speaker 1: uber and to me, it's like, it's, oh man, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so much about that movie. Jerry Lewis is a
Speaker 1: revelation in that movie, I mean it is. It is
Speaker 1: an exercise in intense discomfort. I remember once I did
Speaker 1: a gig with Paul L. F. Tompkins, the comedian in
Speaker 1: la and he he was slinging some merch afterwards, you know,
Speaker 1: in the outside the gig, and he said to the audience,
Speaker 1: if you'd like to come and say hi to me
Speaker 1: after the show and share a brief yet intensely awkward exchange.
Speaker 1: I'll be standing by the and that what happens between
Speaker 1: a performer and the audience a brief, yet intensely awkward exchange.
Speaker 1: The King of Comedy is, let's expand that into a
Speaker 1: movie intense the intensely awkward exchange between performer and audience
Speaker 1: member to the point of violence and delusion. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's just it's just incredible. I think if you're someone
Speaker 1: who's been interested in fame and ambition and show business
Speaker 1: and how to cultivate a feeling of connection with the
Speaker 1: audience and what the dangers are of that, the King
Speaker 1: of Comedy just really speaks to that.
Speaker 3: It's interesting.
Speaker 2: We all think of Jerry Lewis and you know, Dean
Speaker 2: Martin and the comedies that he made, but his performance
Speaker 2: when he actually kind of probably as he got older,
Speaker 2: certainly as he got older, he gave some quite brilliant
Speaker 2: performances that weren't focusing on comedy. There's another movie he
Speaker 2: made called Funny Bones. I'm not sure if you've ever
Speaker 2: seen that, with Oliver Platt, and he's he plays a
Speaker 2: famous comedian and his son, Oliver Pratt is trying to
Speaker 2: following his footsteps, and there's a scene of this never
Speaker 2: and he's not he's not doing particularly well. And there's
Speaker 2: a scene that just it just breaks my heart every
Speaker 2: time I watch it. And it's it's Jerry Lewis saying
Speaker 2: to his to Oliver saying, son, you know this, This
Speaker 2: breaks my heart to tell you this, but you just
Speaker 2: don't have funny bones, you know. And it's just it's
Speaker 2: one of the most heartbreaking scenes I think I've ever
Speaker 2: I've ever witnessed, having your dad, who you're trying to,
Speaker 2: you know, follow in his footsteps that you you know,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't. You should he shouldn't be following me.
Speaker 3: You're not.
Speaker 2: You're kind of not worthy of the you know, of
Speaker 2: the pursuit is And it's yeah, he's if you're looking
Speaker 2: at another Jerry Lewis film where he's not, you know,
Speaker 2: the Jerry Lewis that we all know, funny Bones is
Speaker 2: worth checking out.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what about the whole is just remembering that whole
Speaker 1: you know about the day the clown cried Oh yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: that there never came out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've seen it came That's why it's.
Speaker 1: It was a Jerry Lewis movie. I guess it was
Speaker 1: about I'm just looking it up. It was a Swedish
Speaker 1: French drama.
Speaker 3: Espasically is beautiful as a similar premise, wasn't it?
Speaker 1: Yes, it was set it was a circus clown imprisoned
Speaker 1: in a Nazi concentration camp, and apparently it was just
Speaker 1: this tragic comedy that was deemed just sort of a disaster.
Speaker 1: But I guess I'd love to I should read a
Speaker 1: biography of Jerry Lewis or something, because there was clearly
Speaker 1: something going on with him that he was able to
Speaker 1: embody these sort of incredibly dark comic characters, kind of
Speaker 1: like I think Adam Sandler has a bit of that too.
Speaker 1: There's like the clown level and then there's this other
Speaker 1: heartbreaking level going on underneath and almost.
Speaker 3: Like Adam Sandler, yes, and there's you know, you saw
Speaker 3: a bit of.
Speaker 1: It in Adam Sandler's last comedy special, which I thought
Speaker 1: was just amazing, the one where he did the song
Speaker 1: about Chris Farley and everything, and like he he leaned
Speaker 1: into that there was this survivor in him that had
Speaker 1: been beaten up and had kind of like you know,
Speaker 1: it was like this like yeah, just this like beautiful,
Speaker 1: like bitter sweet side of Adam Sandler that he was
Speaker 1: like finally like showing it, and I think as a fan,
Speaker 1: you just felt like, yes, this is the sweet spot.
Speaker 1: And I think just some some comedians get so boxed
Speaker 1: in by being funny. I mean I've because I do
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff with you know, on the fringes
Speaker 1: of the comedy world and with funny people and stuff.
Speaker 1: I get asked a lot about the ways music and
Speaker 1: comedy connect, and I always feel that musicians have We're
Speaker 1: very lucky in that we can incorporate comedy, but when not,
Speaker 1: we don't have the pressure to always be funny. Like
Speaker 1: a musician can tell a story on stage and get
Speaker 1: laughs and everything, and then go into just a heartfelt
Speaker 1: song and the audience can modulate with them, whereas for comedians,
Speaker 1: the pressure for everything, every tweet, every line to just
Speaker 1: leave the audience on the floor in stitches. I think
Speaker 1: that is almost like can give you an identity crisis
Speaker 1: because it's an absurd pressure for a human being to
Speaker 1: be under.
Speaker 2: I'm glad you recognize that because I've been in audiences
Speaker 2: where you know, the singer has got a huge laugh
Speaker 2: between because he's shed a bit of banter with the
Speaker 2: bass player about a fucking g cord or something that
Speaker 2: I don't understand it. But there's thirty percent of the
Speaker 2: audience that are pissing themselves laughing and then and their
Speaker 2: heroes all of a sudden. I mean the other place
Speaker 2: that that happens is tennis players. Whenever you know a
Speaker 2: tennis player. You know, all Pat Rafter had to do
Speaker 2: was toss the ball in the air and then apologize
Speaker 2: for you know, not going through with a serve, and
Speaker 2: you know, Flushing Meadow would be enab It's.
Speaker 1: Stitches, totally, totally. It's it's a fascinating the way I think,
Speaker 1: I think the way humor can both be used but
Speaker 1: can also like affect people, you know, like it obviously
Speaker 1: it can take an audience on a journey, but it's
Speaker 1: I guess this specific thing about what it does to
Speaker 1: the psyche of a person who is naturally funny but
Speaker 1: is also forced to be funny all the time. I
Speaker 1: think you get characters like these like Jerry Lewis, like
Speaker 1: where the rage that's seething just under theace, and that
Speaker 1: the rage of the audience and the condescension is like
Speaker 1: it's barely repressed.
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean the other I guess with the musicians.
Speaker 2: Musicians can show not only can they you know, they
Speaker 2: can tell a whimsical story and then go into a
Speaker 2: hot belt, so so they're actually showing the light and
Speaker 2: shade of them. And they can even do that within
Speaker 2: one song, or you know, they can get one song
Speaker 2: could you know, a bit whimsy and then the next
Speaker 2: song could actually be you know, something completely different and darker.
Speaker 2: Where if you're a comedian generally and it is changing
Speaker 2: a bit, we've seen, you know, you know, Hannah Gadsby
Speaker 2: had to you know, turn the comedy world upside down
Speaker 2: a little bit with then a few years ago, but
Speaker 2: mostly you know, we are there the tell jokes over
Speaker 2: an hour and you do get to share a lot
Speaker 2: of who you are, but your job is to make
Speaker 2: people laugh, you know, you know, like as soon as
Speaker 2: you start going into any kind of self pity is
Speaker 2: not the right term, but you know vulnerability, yes, self
Speaker 2: evolved where vulnerability this tips over to something else, it
Speaker 2: becomes that's not what they've.
Speaker 3: Paid for, not at all totally.
Speaker 2: The other actors, of course, who have gone from you
Speaker 2: know being you know, seen this comedic even pre dating
Speaker 2: Sandaler's kind of transformation in part is, of course Robin
Speaker 2: Williams with Dead Poets Three, Peter Weir and yeah, and
Speaker 2: then Jim Carrey also Peter Wee with The Truman Show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, all sort of tragic figures. And I
Speaker 1: think that's the way that you know, there's a reason
Speaker 1: why the Fater there are those two faces, because like
Speaker 1: there is this connection between what we laugh at and
Speaker 1: what terrifies us or what breaks our hearts. And it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, as a Jewish person, our entire culture is
Speaker 1: steeped in using humor as a defense against persecution. I
Speaker 1: mean we've basically just survived as a people by laughing.
Speaker 1: And you know, Jews are good at it. Like you
Speaker 1: look at like how ancient the story of anti Semitism is.
Speaker 1: It's like it is. It is one of the great
Speaker 1: truths about civilization is where you find people, you know,
Speaker 1: meetingeople that are different to them, you'll find anti Semitism.
Speaker 1: It's like as long as there was like you know,
Speaker 1: people traveling around me. But similarly with the way we
Speaker 1: joke to get through it. And I think these I
Speaker 1: don't know, this connection to the way laughter. Both releases
Speaker 1: trauma also or helps process trauma. I just find it
Speaker 1: very I don't know, I find it very real. I
Speaker 1: mean all in all, I guess humor also like talking
Speaker 1: about something like King of Comedy or an Adam Sandler film,
Speaker 1: or we're also essentially talking about non naturalism life. Real
Speaker 1: life is not as funny as comedy is. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't get to laugh that much. And I do
Speaker 1: feel that the gritty obsession with representing real life on
Speaker 1: screen or in song or in writing, it's just not
Speaker 1: my cup of tea.
Speaker 4: I want.
Speaker 1: I want something exaggerated, symbolic, bigger, weirder. I want to
Speaker 1: see like I always love that Oscar wild quote, give
Speaker 1: a man a mask, He'll show you the truth. I
Speaker 1: want to learn the truth about something by seeing something
Speaker 1: that's not exactly real. You know, it's like you touch
Speaker 1: something more profoundly human by suspending your disbelief and going
Speaker 1: into a kind of more yeah, just a more surreal
Speaker 1: im And that kind of brink comes to the third film,
Speaker 1: which I don't know if you've seen about Endlessness I mentioned.
Speaker 1: I just saw it this year when lockdown has ended
Speaker 1: and movies were open. Me and my wife were just like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's go to the movies. So we were like, let's
Speaker 1: see what's on it. Me and my daughter was back
Speaker 1: in school and we were like, let's see what's on
Speaker 1: at the Dandy in Newtown and there was this movie
Speaker 1: got about Endlessness, and I looked it up and it
Speaker 1: was just like, I loved this movie and I went
Speaker 1: to see it, and it was one of my favorite
Speaker 1: cinematic experiences in a long time. It was all these
Speaker 1: really long, slow, quiet scenes on sets, clearly on sets,
Speaker 1: but like beautifully built sets, but with no chaos, like
Speaker 1: a doctor's office or a bridge, and people taking really
Speaker 1: long pauses, absurdly long in terms of just sitting in
Speaker 1: the discomfort of these bizarre moments. And it was called
Speaker 1: about Endlessness, and it was an exploration of eternity in
Speaker 1: regular moments. And I just was I was just in
Speaker 1: love with it. I was in love with it. It
Speaker 1: was a gorgeous, gorgeous film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And what part of the world was that from.
Speaker 1: I think I was Swedish. I think it was Swedish.
Speaker 1: And apparently the filmmaker, I haven't seen all these other films.
Speaker 1: Apparently everything he's done is just brilliant. But it was
Speaker 1: really Yeah, it took my breath away.
Speaker 3: How good was it to be back in the cinema?
Speaker 1: Oh man, it's that eleven am movie. That's the whole
Speaker 1: thing for me. Like, I don't want to watch movies
Speaker 1: at nighttime. I just get sleepy. I like to socialize
Speaker 1: at nighttime, but the last thing I want to do
Speaker 1: is sit down and watch a two hour slow movie
Speaker 1: about eternity, you know, in my bed. So it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, little waken Bag, the you know popcorn. You're
Speaker 1: at the movies eleven am in the mid morning. You're
Speaker 1: just like going on a glorious trip. It was just beautiful.
Speaker 3: There's probably there's maybe four or five other people in
Speaker 3: the cinema.
Speaker 2: Is it is the best thing about the best working
Speaker 2: in the arts is that you can actually see mid
Speaker 2: morning movies. It is makes it all worthwhile, exactly. Hey,
Speaker 2: let's move on to talk about the film that we
Speaker 2: are here to talk about, The Club nineteen eighty, based
Speaker 2: on David Williamson's play Bruce Perris for directing, did you
Speaker 2: watch it with when you and your email when we
Speaker 2: chattle about this, you said that your wife might even
Speaker 2: check it out. Ione Sky. For those who don't know
Speaker 2: wonderful actress. Did you watch it with you in the end?
Speaker 1: Yeah, she watched it, you know, definitely made it through
Speaker 1: the first forty five minutes, it got a little like,
Speaker 1: I can't say she didn't intentionally skip it, It just
Speaker 1: got a little bit deprioritized with the other activities going
Speaker 1: on around the house, where I was like, I have
Speaker 1: to watch it. I'm doing peas podcasts. But no, we
Speaker 1: had a lot of interesting conversations about it actually, because
Speaker 1: it's a what's fascinating about it is it's a critique.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a critique of a certain type of culture,
Speaker 1: but it's an outdated critique too. And one of the
Speaker 1: things that I talked to my nineteen year old stepdaughter
Speaker 1: about too is like, you know, she's very woke, Like
Speaker 1: she's very like she is part of the movement to
Speaker 1: rethink the way we think about gender, roles and race
Speaker 1: and all of that stuff, which is right and nineteen
Speaker 1: year olds, But when you're nineteen and you're having these awakenings,
Speaker 1: it's very hard to imagine that the awakenings will continue
Speaker 1: for future generations and your critiques will become outdated. Yes,
Speaker 1: And one of the things about watching this movie was
Speaker 1: that it had a lot to say about kind of
Speaker 1: you know, sort of critically say about male club culture.
Speaker 1: But it also was very much a victim of like
Speaker 1: fetishizing that culture too. It was not able to maintain
Speaker 1: adequate distance from its subject matter to truly critique it.
Speaker 1: It was also madly in love with it, and it
Speaker 1: was it was in love with the fellas all getting
Speaker 1: together and smacking each other's butts and the change rooms,
Speaker 1: and like it was interesting, Like we're that movie made today,
Speaker 1: I think it would actually be a darker appraisal of
Speaker 1: locker room culture. I think there was still a sense
Speaker 1: that as as dark as it got, it was like
Speaker 1: that you know, boys or me boys, there was still
Speaker 1: a bit of that going on, which is like you know,
Speaker 1: from a different time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I wonder if it was made today. I
Speaker 2: think perhaps if they lost the idea that it was
Speaker 2: still about winning a Grand final, it feels like you
Speaker 2: don't need you can understand why, you know, you want
Speaker 2: you want it, you know, maybe you want hope at
Speaker 2: the end, or you want it, you know, a big ending,
Speaker 2: but there's no real reason why that team had to
Speaker 2: win the Grand Final to say what they were trying
Speaker 2: to say about about the sport and about you know,
Speaker 2: boardrooms and disloyalty and.
Speaker 3: Ego and and ambition.
Speaker 2: I just feel one it was it was kind of
Speaker 2: clumsily done, this idea that they were on the bottom
Speaker 2: of the ladder at a certain point of the season,
Speaker 2: and then without seeing any even in the montage, without
Speaker 2: seeing any of the of the winning, all of a
Speaker 2: sudden they're in the Grand Final, and then they win
Speaker 2: the Grand Final.
Speaker 3: It felt a bit clumsy.
Speaker 1: It was a play.
Speaker 2: Dave Wimson wrote a play. Frank Wilson, who played Jock,
Speaker 2: was also in it. I think maybe Allen Castle who
Speaker 2: played Jerry, we're both in. Bruce beris Ford adapted two
Speaker 2: of Dave Williamson's play. Don's Party was also David Williamson play,
Speaker 2: which also had Grahame Kennedy innit. And then this one
Speaker 2: and he makes this between Breaker Morant, which is one
Speaker 2: of the all time great thestrained films, and Puberty Blues,
Speaker 2: another all time greatest trained film.
Speaker 1: So but yeah, one thing about that was that was
Speaker 1: a real like yeah, that was like a real Hollywood
Speaker 1: kind of like yes. And it was a weird revelation
Speaker 1: that they had all these issues is and then Jack
Speaker 1: Thompson goes, you know what, I figured it out. We
Speaker 1: have to win, And I was like, oh, really, this
Speaker 1: is the first moment that the coach is like, you
Speaker 1: know what if we actually played to win this game,
Speaker 1: it could resolve some of the issues. Yeah. That that
Speaker 1: felt sort of like just like, oh, yeah, give them
Speaker 1: a happy ending at the end of a type thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because in the end, what is that film saying
Speaker 2: about all the bloodshed that's kind of gone on and
Speaker 2: the backstabbing that's gone on behind that, that that gets rewarded.
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you something, in the strictest confidence,
Speaker 1: you can't afford to be generous to take because you're
Speaker 1: not going to be around him much longer.
Speaker 3: What you done can't tell you anything except it's dynamite.
Speaker 2: Well what happens. Yeah, I imagine Laurie keeps his job
Speaker 2: going into the next year, because I imagine I all
Speaker 2: keep their jobs. I guess because they're you know, they
Speaker 2: just want a premiership. And generally when the team achieves
Speaker 2: that kind of success across any kind of sport, there's
Speaker 2: not a whole bunch of change, you know, at board level.
Speaker 1: Did you get any sense like I it's Hayward, right,
Speaker 1: Hayward was the younger.
Speaker 3: Yes, Jeff Hayward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jeff Hayward. What was his motivation?
Speaker 4: Like?
Speaker 1: What was going I didn't feel that I understood in
Speaker 1: any depth. Firstly, I haven't seen a movie with this
Speaker 1: few women in it with speaking roles in years. I
Speaker 1: was like, I was like, we got halfway through the
Speaker 1: movie before a woman added a line, which is obviously
Speaker 1: the culture at the time, and that was, you know, yes,
Speaker 1: but so his girlfriend, you know, she she gives him
Speaker 1: wed and then she criticizes him for smoke. But what
Speaker 1: was what was going on with him? He resented that
Speaker 1: he had talent or I just didn't really get it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I didn't get that part of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't.
Speaker 2: We don't really get to know him a whole deal,
Speaker 2: and even to a point where he says to Jack
Speaker 2: Thompson's character Laurie, the football shits him, you know, and
Speaker 2: he kind of resents this idea that he's running around
Speaker 2: chasing a pig skin.
Speaker 5: All right, if you really want to know what's going
Speaker 5: on is that I'm sick to death of football.
Speaker 1: I couldn't care.
Speaker 5: Less well, I never play another game in my life.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of matcho competitive bullshit. Football shits me.
Speaker 2: Well, then he says, you're not coaching well either, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, Laurie says, well what do
Speaker 2: you mean? He goes, well, you should you know Danny
Speaker 2: was getting killed. You know, I should play center. And
Speaker 2: it's like he kind of changes on a he flips
Speaker 2: on a dime. Really the idea of like like really
Speaker 2: resenting footy to kind of pitching that he should be
Speaker 2: the one leading the team in a way.
Speaker 1: And I just.
Speaker 2: The most insight with what he got into the Danny
Speaker 2: was when he told the fake story about sleeping with
Speaker 2: his legless sister.
Speaker 3: We got it. That was so weird.
Speaker 1: That was weird. I was like, did I choose to
Speaker 1: watch eight and a half?
Speaker 5: It was?
Speaker 3: And it was you know, I thought it was. I
Speaker 3: really enjoyed.
Speaker 2: I mean I did enjoy the fun of that scene
Speaker 2: and Jock. I think the performances are really good in this.
Speaker 2: I think Frank Wilson as Jock gives a really really
Speaker 2: great performance. I feel like we sadly he's not long
Speaker 2: with us, but in fact, quite a lot of this
Speaker 2: cast are no longer with us. But he he was
Speaker 2: he was a standout as far as a performance goes
Speaker 2: in a film with I think really strong performances. I
Speaker 2: think Graham Kennedy's you know the King of Australian TV
Speaker 2: is really good in this.
Speaker 1: They say he was a great player, Oh yes, and
Speaker 1: makes great scones. It doesn't mean she's a runner cake factory.
Speaker 2: As is Alan Castle and Jack Jack Thompson's good. But
Speaker 2: I mean the whole the whole movie is an argument.
Speaker 2: Like it's it's argument after argument after argument. Every scene
Speaker 2: it's almost literally every scene is an argument.
Speaker 1: Do you know what's funny? What reminded me was something
Speaker 1: reminded me of was I was doing a video clip
Speaker 1: once with you know, Rada Mitchell, the actress.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yes, video with her, and we was.
Speaker 1: In a music video and we had some interaction or whatever,
Speaker 1: and then in the background there was a telly on
Speaker 1: and I don't remember what was playing, but it was
Speaker 1: something like AMAgeddon or like it was like a political
Speaker 1: disaster movie of some kind, and all we saw were
Speaker 1: these shots of men talking to each other and and
Speaker 1: she was like, oh, this is such a guys movie.
Speaker 1: And I was like why She was like, because it's
Speaker 1: just guys going like and I was like, oh my god, wow,
Speaker 1: I hadn't even thought about that in terms of like
Speaker 1: even the way the camera's moving, it's fully just there
Speaker 1: to platform one man saying something to another man. Like
Speaker 1: the camera is not framing it in any kind of
Speaker 1: poetic way. It's giving complete weight to just the intellectual
Speaker 1: content of what the actor has to say at that
Speaker 1: moment and what I was. That's one of things that
Speaker 1: why I think the movie sort of actually kind of
Speaker 1: fails in its critique of kind of patriarchal culture in
Speaker 1: that the storytelling is incredibly patriarchal. It's linear, it's dialogue
Speaker 1: and logic based. There's not much room for like emotion
Speaker 1: or poetry, Like there's very little. There are very few
Speaker 1: moments of with the exception of the like when the
Speaker 1: seagulls flew up and he, you know, he's obviously Heyward's
Speaker 1: having a sort of like opening to his unconscious or
Speaker 1: something which might be a more sort of feminine idea
Speaker 1: or something. The rest of it is really just like
Speaker 1: it's it's it's funny because I think this is like
Speaker 1: in the conversations that have come up around sort of
Speaker 1: white privilege in the last few years and stuff. I
Speaker 1: think one of the things that we're being forced to
Speaker 1: look at is is the nature of the way we're
Speaker 1: discussing it simply furthering the issues that we're trying to dismantle.
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, like, is white guys being intense with each other
Speaker 1: exploring this thing talking about It's like podcasts, Like it's
Speaker 1: four white guys sitting around talking about it. Like okay,
Speaker 1: so yeah they're talking about race. So yeah, they're talking
Speaker 1: about you know, gender or something. But at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, it's just platforming the exact voices that
Speaker 1: are sort of the problem in the situation. And it
Speaker 1: was one of those things where I thought, like, this
Speaker 1: movie isn't doing the dismantling artistically that it should be
Speaker 1: doing of the subject matter.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as a comic, and I'm not saying this is
Speaker 2: not at all saying woe is me at all, but
Speaker 2: you kind of going, what does the audience now expect
Speaker 2: of me?
Speaker 3: What do they want to do? They want me to
Speaker 3: talk about and help and how I can you know, or.
Speaker 2: I'm going to becoming about escapism and other people this
Speaker 2: and comment on this cultural revolution that is going on that.
Speaker 2: I'm you know, I'm supportive of you know, there's some
Speaker 2: really great things, you know, there's some great progress being
Speaker 2: made being am I am I getting the way by
Speaker 2: putting my hand up and devoting a show based on it.
Speaker 3: I don't know what the what the answer is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I don't think there is an answer. But
Speaker 1: in a movie like this that its pretense is that
Speaker 1: it's going to offer some kind of cultural or criticism
Speaker 1: of the atmosphere within a male dominated sports organization, Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is what it is. Like, it's about, this is
Speaker 1: about It's funny in my mind, I keep calling the
Speaker 1: movie the Boys, but it's called the Club. But it's
Speaker 1: like it called the Boys because it's about the old
Speaker 1: boys and the new boys and how the boys on interact,
Speaker 1: and it's got it's got a really I think it's
Speaker 1: for its time. Also even what was it, early eighties,
Speaker 1: eighty one or something eighty Yeah, it's like that was
Speaker 1: a pretty radical stance to even look at that and
Speaker 1: go okay, because there's issues about like domestic violence and
Speaker 1: sexual assault and all these things get touched on him
Speaker 1: ways that would be handled much more sensitively today, like
Speaker 1: some of the you know, some of the things you're
Speaker 1: a bit like, oh, yes, you're dealing with that. Ooh,
Speaker 1: that's how you're dealing with and.
Speaker 2: Yeah that you know, I was only a tiny bit
Speaker 2: relieved to be honest that there was there was some
Speaker 2: ramifications for like they weren't just where. I think the
Speaker 2: first time we hear something about you like domestic violence
Speaker 2: was Jock says something like, you know, he gave his
Speaker 2: wife dulcy one yeah, because he he said he.
Speaker 3: Was she was beaten that day.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Jesus fuck, I don't remember that,
Speaker 2: which is actually quite interesting for me to watch watch
Speaker 2: this movie that I watched many times as a kid,
Speaker 2: you know, on VHS, and I really loved it. But
Speaker 2: I kind of lean into the idea of like some
Speaker 2: of the actual footballers that you see are the people
Speaker 2: that I go and watch, you know, each Saturday at
Speaker 2: that ground.
Speaker 3: You know, Like, so I had this, I was in
Speaker 3: for it, and we're tho.
Speaker 1: Famous footballers in the team. I didn't.
Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of the guys who made up that
Speaker 2: you know, made up the team were actual actual footballers,
Speaker 2: you know. So you know, Tank o'donahue was a famous
Speaker 2: footballer called Renne kink who, funnily enough, when this is
Speaker 2: back in the day when they weren't professional. And that's
Speaker 2: one of the things that the movie is also about,
Speaker 2: this moving on from basically being an amateur sports as
Speaker 2: more money starts coming into that sport. Jeff Hay would
Speaker 2: have been given an extra ten thousand dollars and that
Speaker 2: was sudden that happened, Like you had. There's a guy
Speaker 2: called Keith greg who played for North Melbourne. Wonderful player,
Speaker 2: but one two brand low metals, which is that you know,
Speaker 2: the the yeah, the Oscar of the of or the
Speaker 2: Grammy of a football VFL and he was making thirty
Speaker 2: dollars a week in the mid seventies and he was
Speaker 2: deemed to be the best player in the league over
Speaker 2: two years. But then there was cash deals being made
Speaker 2: to bring people in to that club. Between nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: two and nineteen eighty the income of the money spent
Speaker 2: in VFL football went up two thousand percent. I do recognize,
Speaker 2: and I think that that was that was all playing
Speaker 2: a part in this film as well, which which I
Speaker 2: quite liked. I quite liked that idea, and you know,
Speaker 2: and the I like that Ted, you know, becomes a
Speaker 2: victim of a culture that he encourages, lack of loyalty.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's trying to get rid of Lorry the
Speaker 2: whole time, and it's that lack of loyalty that he's
Speaker 2: encouraged that his downfall in the end. But to get
Speaker 2: get back to the point, I guess I was making
Speaker 2: it's important point.
Speaker 3: I don't want to leave it loose.
Speaker 2: When Jock says that about hitting his partner his wife,
Speaker 2: when I saw it, I was like, that's that is
Speaker 2: I do not remember that.
Speaker 3: And I was like God.
Speaker 2: And then and then we had the stripper at the
Speaker 2: club function, which I'm pretty sure doesn't happen these days,
Speaker 2: and then we learn about the assault that that again
Speaker 2: Ted has slapped her.
Speaker 3: I was like Jesus. And then and I say, I
Speaker 3: was only, you know.
Speaker 2: A little bit relieved that at least these things weren't
Speaker 2: just throwaway comments. My fear when Jock said that the
Speaker 2: beginning with it was almost a throwaway comment, like it
Speaker 2: was supposed to be a joke.
Speaker 3: And I was like, Okay, this is not good.
Speaker 2: And then I guess when it kind of became like
Speaker 2: I think it was there to show Jock's hypocrisy that
Speaker 2: he had done indulged in this behavior. Yet he's actually
Speaker 2: used this the information about Ted to knife Ted to
Speaker 2: get rid of him as a power play. So I
Speaker 2: was somewhat relieved that they weren't just throwaway if you
Speaker 2: like it straight up.
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, And I think it's like it's heart
Speaker 1: is in the right place that movie. But that's why
Speaker 1: I was from the beginning, like I think it's most
Speaker 1: interesting in the sense of the way cultural criticism evolves
Speaker 1: because it's like reading parenting books from twenty years ago
Speaker 1: that you're like, we know a little more now about
Speaker 1: child psychology, you know, and you can see that like
Speaker 1: these conversations about like what's wrong with our institutions and
Speaker 1: what you know, what are they doing to our kids,
Speaker 1: whether it's putting our kids in schools or football clubs,
Speaker 1: or are they being exploited? Are they being taken care of?
Speaker 1: Like this is an ongoing conversation, and it's just like
Speaker 1: super interesting to look at what was the cutting edge
Speaker 1: of cultural criticism in a really important area forty years ago.
Speaker 1: Now it's forty years ago, and how certain true remain,
Speaker 1: like the idea that these kids are essentially being exploited
Speaker 1: for the financial benefit of the club. Like that comes
Speaker 1: up really early that Heyward's like, yeah, it's a big check,
Speaker 1: but I don't get most of it. Most of it
Speaker 1: goes to the club. And you get that sense in
Speaker 1: you know, same in America and here and these players
Speaker 1: being traded and it's it's really great for the clubs.
Speaker 1: And how much do the kids actually get out of it.
Speaker 1: Some of that stuff is still spot on, and some
Speaker 1: of it we expect more. We expect more now, you know,
Speaker 1: like I think we I think nowadays like a club
Speaker 1: like that, Like it was interesting. I was talking to
Speaker 1: Russell Crowe about this about what with Souths about with
Speaker 1: the football club and how he's like realizing like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's really on the club to do more education with
Speaker 1: the players about how to treat women, yeah, and how
Speaker 1: to like not make mistakes with money and not. Like
Speaker 1: you've got these kids in like a really vulnerable time
Speaker 1: of their life and they're basically submitting themselves to this
Speaker 1: industry that they get parented by, you know, and just
Speaker 1: some of it. I think our ideas evolve about how
Speaker 1: these institutions should be looking after the people involved.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, yeah, you went back in nineteen eighty you
Speaker 2: had guys who'd go to training and then go back
Speaker 2: to work after they finished training and then play on
Speaker 2: the weekends. Now you have there's so much money in
Speaker 2: AFL football that you have kids drafted at eighteen out
Speaker 2: of school paid.
Speaker 3: Really decent money.
Speaker 2: A first year player is probably I think over I
Speaker 2: think it might be over maybe around one hundred thousand.
Speaker 2: It might be less, it might be something sixty you know,
Speaker 2: and one hundred thousand, but you know, an eighteen year
Speaker 2: old making sixty thousand dollars in the first year, knowing
Speaker 2: that it'll go up over the years.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of money.
Speaker 2: And combined with spare time, you know, like they are
Speaker 2: at the club training and it's you know, but they
Speaker 2: have they have a lot.
Speaker 3: Of spare time to spend that money.
Speaker 2: Or to be hanging out with you know, other their
Speaker 2: new friends who all have spent the same almost on
Speaker 2: the same schedule, with a lot of money as well.
Speaker 2: So it's absolutely imperative that the clubs educate and I
Speaker 2: think that you know, they are getting better. I mean,
Speaker 2: Colin has been through a tumultuous you know, a couple
Speaker 2: of years, and there's always kind of been a bit
Speaker 2: of a lightning rod for these kinds of issues. And
Speaker 2: you know, I think there's there seems to be a
Speaker 2: real commitment to address education. And you know, I mean
Speaker 2: you could argue now that AFL footballers and probably you
Speaker 2: know less across NRL. But you know what Russell's saying,
Speaker 2: I think rings true that you could argue that these
Speaker 2: young men receive more education about these kinds of issues
Speaker 2: than most young men in other workplaces.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's like, I don't know, I always thought entertainment.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, there should be particularly with money.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, you have people, say twenty one,
Speaker 1: twenty two and they have a song comes out, it
Speaker 1: makes them some money. And there's something about the human mind,
Speaker 1: and this is why I relate to athletes, like the
Speaker 1: human mind has this intense impre It's like non practical
Speaker 1: in that it just assumes that whatever's happening right now
Speaker 1: will continue. So if it's depressed, it goes I'm going
Speaker 1: to be depressed forever. That's why young people depression is
Speaker 1: so hard because they can't foresee breaking out of it.
Speaker 1: And if they're making money, they're like, wow, I'm going
Speaker 1: to make money. Forever, and the choices that you make
Speaker 1: in those little windows which Heyward has this window, he
Speaker 1: like gets a check, you know, and it's interesting that
Speaker 1: he never cashed it, that it was still there. I
Speaker 1: don't know if that was some shame that he had
Speaker 1: about getting quote unquote overpaid. That didn't exactly ring true
Speaker 1: to me, that he wouldn't have because you know, but
Speaker 1: these are brief windows in our kinds of industries where
Speaker 1: you can get like a really good bit of momentum
Speaker 1: and the next one maybe a decade later, or I
Speaker 1: may never come again. And I always really feel for
Speaker 1: young people having to suddenly be thrust into the degree
Speaker 1: of financial responsibility required in order to like not go
Speaker 1: broke right away. Basically it's a lot of pressure.
Speaker 2: I mean, you have always seen to You've always kept
Speaker 2: your head together, you know, and you were, you know,
Speaker 2: a teenage prodigy.
Speaker 3: You know, you're very young. I talked about eighteen year
Speaker 3: old getting drafted.
Speaker 5: You.
Speaker 2: I think you were fifteen when you kind of exploded
Speaker 2: and you were signed. I think it was the first
Speaker 2: and more by signing youth and Mike Deef and the
Speaker 2: Beastie Boys are signing your labels. How did you how
Speaker 2: did you keep your head together through those? And were
Speaker 2: they periods where you kind of you did let it
Speaker 2: get away from you? Because I look back when I
Speaker 2: started my comedy career, and even to be honest, I
Speaker 2: remember the first person I got recognized.
Speaker 3: This is before I was on TV.
Speaker 2: I got recognized down the shops and I was like, God,
Speaker 2: I guess I'm famous now. That person just have to
Speaker 2: be at the gig at Sant Kilda three weeks earlier
Speaker 2: and just recognized me and they said that they saw me,
Speaker 2: you know, And but yeah, how did you handle you?
Speaker 3: Did you have mentors?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean one look I had. I had a Russian
Speaker 1: immigrant grandmother who was like Ben Jammy and as soon
Speaker 1: as you'll make some money, you're buy an appartiment. So
Speaker 1: like I had that kind of training, you know that
Speaker 1: was like just park some money in an apartment, you know,
Speaker 1: because you never know.
Speaker 3: But I think.
Speaker 1: More than that, I grew up with an understanding that
Speaker 1: long term. I don't want to call it success because
Speaker 1: I know that that word is complicated, but almost like
Speaker 1: ability is created through like I always loved the movie Shortcuts,
Speaker 1: Robert on the movie Right and the stories the Raymond
Speaker 1: Carver stories that it was based on, because they were
Speaker 1: all about people that built artificial constructs that denoted security
Speaker 1: to them and then chaos would enter, right And so
Speaker 1: there was like the famous story about the guys who
Speaker 1: went fishing and they found the body. Do you remember that?
Speaker 1: In shortcuts? And they knew, oh, the body's been there
Speaker 1: a while. Let's just keep fishing and we'll report it
Speaker 1: when we go back there. And the wife is heartbroken.
Speaker 1: She's like, you wait, you kept fishing. And it was
Speaker 1: about how the way tragedy enters our lives in unexpected ways.
Speaker 1: And that's a long way of explaining that. My sense
Speaker 1: was always that your best bet at happiness or stability
Speaker 1: was accepting chaos and madness and in appropriate doses so
Speaker 1: almost like homeopathic, you know. So like I remember like
Speaker 1: and Cotney Taylor from the Dandy Warholes understood that he
Speaker 1: said that his band was they were on their way
Speaker 1: to becoming the coolest band on the planet, the Dandy Walls.
Speaker 1: This was like ninety two whatever, and he was like, huh,
Speaker 1: I have to build in a floor because it's all
Speaker 1: going too well. And if I give myself to this,
Speaker 1: the hedonism and the success and everything being handed to me,
Speaker 1: it's going to implode. So he got a girlfriend and
Speaker 1: he stayed with her completely monogamously through that entire run,
Speaker 1: and he never gave in too like the sexual temptations.
Speaker 1: And he said, for him, he thinks that was the
Speaker 1: way of building the things securely. It's almost like building
Speaker 1: a high rise tower that can move in the wind. Wow.
Speaker 1: You know. So I've always been interested in how you
Speaker 1: allow chaos and destruction and the falling apartners into the
Speaker 1: thing that you're building in the long term.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is that is that is that is brilliant
Speaker 2: and yeah, but you have always and I said in
Speaker 2: the in the in the intro, that you know, you
Speaker 2: are always somebody who is happy to speak your mind.
Speaker 2: And when you say that, if you say that about somebody,
Speaker 2: you immediately think, oh, there are they are a bit
Speaker 2: of a rebel rouser, you know. But you you, you
Speaker 2: are always somebody who has spruit positivity and you wear
Speaker 2: your hard and your sleeve, but not in that kind
Speaker 2: of saccharin way at all. Like it's kind of like
Speaker 2: it's really refreshing. There's so much noise, Like there's so
Speaker 2: much noise that we need to turn off, you know,
Speaker 2: and you have always been this beacon of positivity, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are times when you have not felt
Speaker 2: like being like that when you were fifteen, were you
Speaker 2: like that or just something you ever?
Speaker 1: Look, I have an innately positive temperament. But I also
Speaker 1: see it as logical. Yeah, I see it as like
Speaker 1: I'm a very logical person in my way. It's like,
Speaker 1: I think positivity is your best bet to finding a solution,
Speaker 1: Like it's the mindset that is most likely to bring
Speaker 1: the desired outcome. So I just look at it like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I have a gift of being like a pretty upbeat person.
Speaker 1: That's just like, you know, whatever what you come with.
Speaker 1: But then I realized that, like, huh, this actually is
Speaker 1: the best tool. It's the best tool for resilience. It's
Speaker 1: like Jewish people laughing, Like, ultimately it is the thing
Speaker 1: that's going to help you get through.
Speaker 3: Is so good.
Speaker 2: My congratulations on everything. Thank you so much for doing
Speaker 2: the podcast. I know it comes with homework, and you
Speaker 2: nailed it. It's been fascinating to chat to you about it,
Speaker 2: and it's great to catch up.
Speaker 1: I love it, man. Thank you for having me and
Speaker 1: thanks for giving me the opportunity to see The Club.
Speaker 1: I would have never seen it otherwise. The makers of
Speaker 1: Breaker Marine now bring you a story of games people play.
Speaker 3: That's true, isn't it.
Speaker 1: Jerry No going Away?
Speaker 3: That was Ben Lee. What a fascinating go What a
Speaker 3: lovely guy and just a passionate guy. So smart. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I knew Ben wasn't going to come out and say,
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is my favorite new film, but
Speaker 2: it was really interesting to hear his his takes on
Speaker 2: Bruce Beresford's The Club. I mean, there's still so much
Speaker 2: to enjoy about that film. It's a film of its age,
Speaker 2: no doubt about that. Derrick Myers at Castaways Studios, he's
Speaker 2: the man who puts all this together. If you want
Speaker 2: to get your podcast going, contact Castaways Studios dot com
Speaker 2: dot au. That's Cassaway Studios dot com dot au. And
Speaker 2: there it will help you help get your started like
Speaker 2: he did me a couple of years ago. Now and
Speaker 2: now we're like almost eighty episodes. Yeah, we'll have one
Speaker 2: hundred episodes before we know it. Well, that's going to
Speaker 2: be a celebration.
Speaker 3: Derek, how are you super fantastic? That's the way mate,
Speaker 3: you're getting Brack for Collingwood. You're a saints man.
Speaker 4: Don't just not burry for colling I really don't burry
Speaker 4: form half my family do my wife's family.
Speaker 3: It's traumatic. There's a great movie called A twenty ten
Speaker 3: grandfa on a replant. Check it out. Sorry, what a
Speaker 3: prick sixty.
Speaker 2: Both nail bodis eerily similar. Finish you know, well the
Speaker 2: draw was eerily similar Finish to the Thankfully with one
Speaker 2: point of different things go along swimmingly. We've got a
Speaker 2: big episode coming up next week. But I love this
Speaker 2: speak pipe that's going off. We're getting more messages on
Speaker 2: the speak pipe.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've got a great one. I'll just tell you
Speaker 4: what speak pipe his people, Please it's you'll see a
Speaker 4: link in the show notes, or or you might go
Speaker 4: to it and be speakpipe dot, calm forward, slash y
Speaker 4: hasn't he? You can just jump on and leave us
Speaker 4: a message of a verbal message that we can use
Speaker 4: in the show. And we'll demonstrate with this very good run.
Speaker 5: From ben Hi Pete Love the episode with Eddie Bannon.
Speaker 5: Love actually is my girlfriend's favorite film. But I've sent
Speaker 5: you a link so she can receive some constructive criticism
Speaker 5: and a very good review from both of you, honest
Speaker 5: and fair, hoping we're still together after she's listened to it.
Speaker 2: Oh, Ben, you're oh, you're in for I hope it
Speaker 2: wasn't her birthday or anything, or oh my god, what
Speaker 2: are you doing?
Speaker 3: I mean, I want to be very clear about this podcast.
Speaker 2: I never want this, at any episode of this podcast
Speaker 2: to ruin anyone's favorite film or favorite films like this
Speaker 2: is just us processing a film that, certainly my guest
Speaker 2: is only just watched, sometimes the night before, sometimes the
Speaker 2: morning of. Eddie obviously had very much processed.
Speaker 3: Love.
Speaker 2: Actually, I'm not trying to talk anyone down, including myself.
Speaker 2: When Love actually comes on around christ this time, I'm
Speaker 2: not going to switch to the channel. I'm going to
Speaker 2: keep watching it. I just know that there are things
Speaker 2: that are a bit flimsy about it, but there are
Speaker 2: things that I love it. Emma Thompson's performance is amazing.
Speaker 2: But what are you doing, mate? You're glutton for punishment.
Speaker 2: Feel free to let us know whenever your girlfriend does.
Speaker 3: Listen to that episode.
Speaker 2: She might turn it off after a few minutes when
Speaker 2: she gets the vibe of our conversation, but please let
Speaker 2: us know what she did think of it. I had somebody,
Speaker 2: Mimi from work, who's a big fan of the podcast. Today, Mim,
Speaker 2: she said Love actually was on her favorite films and
Speaker 2: she she listened to that podcast and she was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is all actually correct, this is true.
Speaker 3: But she still loves the film. You know, I don't
Speaker 3: think we've totally ruined it for her.
Speaker 2: But like I said, never the purpose of any episode.
Speaker 2: It's just it's just this opinions and we all need
Speaker 2: to understand and be okay with differing opinions.
Speaker 3: Good luck.
Speaker 1: I'm backing him.
Speaker 4: Sorry, I'm backing him. It's worth getting her on. Get
Speaker 4: her on to Elf instead.
Speaker 3: Elf is a great Christmas movie. There's no doubt about that.
Speaker 2: No, you're brave man, Your brave man, Ben, Brave Ben,
Speaker 2: Big Ben. If your girlfriend does listen to it, please
Speaker 2: let us know. Send us another speak pipe if I
Speaker 2: get her to send us a speak pipe, love to
Speaker 2: know her feedback, whatever it may be, whatever it may be,
Speaker 2: Fingers crossed.
Speaker 3: Okay, Ben.
Speaker 2: Next week on the show, comedian podcaster Cameron James. I
Speaker 2: have said that I wanted introduce new people to you.
Speaker 2: I haven't spent a lot of time with Cam. I've
Speaker 2: admired him from Afar. He does great work with recent
Speaker 2: former Yasny guest Alexi Toleopolis, who did Rocky Horror Picture Show,
Speaker 2: and they do podcasts together, such as Finding Drago, which
Speaker 2: became a massive hit, and Finding Desperado. They've got a
Speaker 2: new one coming out of Finding You. We'll talk to
Speaker 2: him about that, But more importantly, we're going to cover
Speaker 2: a film that I absolutely love. There'll be some intention
Speaker 2: leading up to it, because I really hope he loves
Speaker 2: this movie. It is the Ron Howard directed nineteen eighty
Speaker 2: nine classic Staran Steve Martin, Diane Weeze, Keanu Reeves, a
Speaker 2: young Young Sorry, Joaquin Phoenix, Martha Plympton, Jason Robards, Rick Moranis.
Speaker 2: It's an amazing film, Parenthood. How could he not love it?
Speaker 2: I hope he does. If you haven't seen it, please
Speaker 2: watch Parenthood. It's an awesome film, funny but also got
Speaker 2: this melancholy in it. I'm getting too far ahead of myself.
Speaker 3: Just watch it.
Speaker 2: You'll thank me later next week on You Ain't Seen
Speaker 2: Nothing Yet, Cameron James watches Parenthood for the first time
Speaker 2: until then see Soon, And so we leave old Pete
Speaker 2: Steve Manzal and to our friends of the radio audience,
Speaker 2: we've been a pleasant good night