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Speaker 1: Already and this this is the daily Off.

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Speaker 2: This is the daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 1: the twenty eighth of March. I'm Sam, I'm Billy. Despite

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Speaker 1: the AFL season only being a few weeks old, it

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Speaker 1: is not football that has hit the headlines this week. Instead,

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Speaker 1: it's explosive allegations over recreational drug use being covered up

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Speaker 1: by club doctors and players being told to fake physical

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Speaker 1: injuries in order to avoid game day drug testing. This

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Speaker 1: is a story that has the potential to rock the sport,

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Speaker 1: so we want to get you across it early. We're

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Speaker 1: going to do that in today's Deep Dive. But first, Billy,

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Speaker 1: what is making headlines this morning?

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Speaker 2: Festival organizers have confirmed that Splendor in the Grass has

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Speaker 2: been canceled. Tickets went on sale to the public less

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Speaker 2: than a week ago, with the three day festival scheduled

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Speaker 2: to go ahead in Byron Bay this July. However, post

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Speaker 2: on Splendor's Instagram said due to unexpected events, we will

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Speaker 2: be taking the year off. It said it will be

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Speaker 2: working hard to be back in future years. Ticket Holders

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Speaker 2: will be refunded automatically.

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Speaker 1: Telstra CEO Vicki Brady has apologized for a quote technical

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Speaker 1: fault that she says caused a triple zero outage. A

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Speaker 1: man died from a heart attack when he was unable

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Speaker 1: to reach emergency services. During the ninety minute outage on

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Speaker 1: the first of March, nearly five hundred other Triple zero

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Speaker 1: calls were disrupted, with more than one hundred unable to

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Speaker 1: get through at all. Brady called the incident unacceptable and

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Speaker 1: blamed it on a combination of factors, including an issue

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Speaker 1: in Telstra's backup processes and a communication error that led

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Speaker 1: to delays in callbacks from emergency service operators to users.

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Speaker 1: Brady said she wanted to reassure the Australian public Telstra

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Speaker 1: was working to improve its services to rebuild customer trust.

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Speaker 2: Australian medical experts have found evidence showing the negative impacts

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Speaker 2: of vaping on smoker's ie health. Australia and New Zealand's

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Speaker 2: Peak Body for Ophthalmologists has found the highly toxic chemicals

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Speaker 2: in vapes pose and increased risks to eyes, as well

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Speaker 2: as the heart, lungs, and a range of other health concerns.

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Speaker 2: It comes after Health Minister Mark Butler introduced new vaping

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Speaker 2: legislation last week, further limiting the sale of vapes.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news. New research has found a Japanese

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Speaker 1: bird species flutters its wings as a gesture of politeness.

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Speaker 1: The University of Tokyo found the Japanese tit that's the

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Speaker 1: first time I've said that on this podcast. A small

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Speaker 1: bird species uses its wings as a way of communicating.

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Speaker 1: For example, researchers observed a nest box filled with food

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Speaker 1: and found that when pairs of the birds arrived at

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Speaker 1: the nest, one would perch itself outside the box and

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Speaker 1: open its wings to signal to its partner after you,

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Speaker 1: isn't that nice, Billy.

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Speaker 3: Love that.

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Speaker 2: I've been hearing about AFL and cocaine and something about

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Speaker 2: parliamentary privilege. You are our resident sports correspondent, so please

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Speaker 2: explain what is going.

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Speaker 1: On, Billy. These aren't the circumstances where I wanted to

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Speaker 1: be talking about sport, but here we are. The AFL

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Speaker 1: is facing a bit of drama around its illicit drugs policy.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into this. So all of this started on

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Speaker 1: Tuesday night when Federal Independent MP Andrew Wilkie stood up

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Speaker 1: in Federal Parliament and accused an AFL club, the Melbourne Demons,

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Speaker 1: of staging secret drug tests and covering up the results.

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Speaker 1: Have a listen to what Wilkie said.

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Speaker 4: Here is what happened, as it has been described to me.

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Speaker 4: The IFO wants the player to play at all costs

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Speaker 4: and so the cover up begins. If there are no

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Speaker 4: illegal drugs in the player's system, they are free to play.

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Speaker 4: And if there are drugs in their system, the player

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Speaker 4: is often asked to fake an injury. They advised to

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Speaker 4: lie about the condition while the results of the off

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Speaker 4: the book tests are kept secret and the ever shared

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Speaker 4: with Sports Integrity Australia or WADA. So I definitely speak

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Speaker 4: and next time you hear a player has a hamstring injury,

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Speaker 4: you could be forgiven for wondering what's really going on.

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Speaker 1: So basically what Andrew wilk told us there was There's

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Speaker 1: a doctor who's worked with the Melbourne Football Club in

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Speaker 1: the past, he's not currently employed with them now and

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Speaker 1: he's come forward with allegations that the AFL secretly tests

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Speaker 1: for illicit drugs and encourages players to fake injuries to

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Speaker 1: avoid being retested and found with drugs in their system.

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Speaker 1: On a game day, so.

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Speaker 2: Basically what they're saying is that if you fake an injury,

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Speaker 2: you won't be tested for illicit substances, and therefore if

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Speaker 2: you did have it, they would never know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's basically the allegation here that the clubs

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Speaker 1: are helping players get out of testing positive for drugs

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Speaker 1: on a match day because if you're testing positive to

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Speaker 1: drugs during the week, that might not be captured by

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Speaker 1: the doping authorities. We'll get into all of this, and

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Speaker 1: even though Wilkie focused on the Demons, he said that

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Speaker 1: this wasn't just a Melbourne problem.

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Speaker 4: This isn't just a Melbourne problem. It's an AFL problem

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Speaker 4: with multiple players coming to Melbourne from other teams with

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Speaker 4: pre existing cocaine dependencies, more than suggesting that drug testing

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Speaker 4: work arounds are in fact commonplace elsewhere in the AFL.

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Speaker 4: More Over, a Deputy speaker, the documents in my position

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Speaker 4: also indicate a shocking unwillingness by senior AFL executives to

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Speaker 4: address drug abuse by players and executives, particularly in relation

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Speaker 4: to cocaine.

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Speaker 2: Us So, a politician says that there is an issue

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Speaker 2: with illicit drug use in AFL that happens on Tuesday

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Speaker 2: night what happens on Wednesday.

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Speaker 1: So we wake up on Wednesday morning and there's a

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Speaker 1: whole bunch of press conferences that coaches of teams have

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Speaker 1: before a training session during the middle of the week.

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Speaker 1: These are super common, you know, normally the coach comes

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Speaker 1: to answers questions about injuries, or how their team's going,

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Speaker 1: or why it's a good year or a bad year

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Speaker 1: for the club. And of course the big topic of

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Speaker 1: conversation for those press conferences yesterday was this story, and

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Speaker 1: journalists really seems to hone in on cocaine. So cocaine

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Speaker 1: us in the sport quickly became the lead of where

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Speaker 1: these conversations were heading. And so we heard from the

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Speaker 1: Melbourne Demons coach. His name is Simon Goodwin and Melbourne

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Speaker 1: Demons as the team that Andrew Wilkie was referring to

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Speaker 1: in Parliament, and he said the allegations were news to

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Speaker 1: him and basically that his role at the Demons means

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Speaker 1: that he's not really part of any processes around drug testing.

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Speaker 3: Now. It's not for me to have an opinion right now.

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Speaker 3: All I do is I get information that I'm acquired,

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Speaker 3: and the policy says that this information that should remain confidential.

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Speaker 3: So it's not unexpected that I don't have the information

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Speaker 3: because that's the way the policy is designed. So here's

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Speaker 3: something that you will have to ask the AFL. I'm

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Speaker 3: sure it's something that they will give full clarity.

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Speaker 1: On and we can all move forward. And we also

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Speaker 1: heard from the Sidney Swan CEO. His name is Tom Harley,

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Speaker 1: and he also said that he was unaware of this

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Speaker 1: alleged practice of players faking injury on instruction of the

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Speaker 1: club doctors if they returned to positive result for illicit drugs.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we have the heads of these AFL clubs

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Speaker 2: saying they're completely unaware if this is happening. What about

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Speaker 2: the head of the AFL altogether.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So mid morning, the AFL released a written statement

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Speaker 1: and that was quickly followed up by a press conference

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Speaker 1: from the CEO of the AFL. His name is Andrew Dillon.

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Speaker 1: It's actually his first year on the job this year,

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Speaker 1: so it's one of the first big crises he's had

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Speaker 1: to deal with in the sport. And basically, and this

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Speaker 1: is really interesting, Dylan refused to confirm or deny that

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Speaker 1: players have been told to fake injuries to avoid game

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Speaker 1: day testing, but he did say that club doctors routinely

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Speaker 1: and secretly test players for illicit drugs, and if a

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Speaker 1: player is found to have an illicit drug in their system,

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Speaker 1: he said that they take steps to prevent the player

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Speaker 1: from taking part in either training or an AFL match,

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Speaker 1: which the AFL says is in the player's best interests

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Speaker 1: for their welfare. You're in.

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Speaker 5: Tests conducted by doctors to determine if a player has

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Speaker 5: used of substances are part of the ifl's elicited Drug

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Speaker 5: policy medical model and have been for some time. If

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Speaker 5: the test shows a substance is still in the player's system,

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Speaker 5: a doctor will take steps to prevent a player from

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Speaker 5: taking part in either training and or an AFL match,

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Speaker 5: both for their own health and welfare and because having

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Speaker 5: an ellicted substance in your system or matchday maybe deemed

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Speaker 5: performance enhancing and a breach of the Australian Football antidope

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Speaker 5: in code.

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Speaker 2: Isn't that him kind of saying that this does happen.

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Speaker 2: Andrew Wilkie's right.

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Speaker 1: Then, yes, and no, it's definitely not him saying it

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Speaker 1: as explicitly as Andrew Wilkie said it in Parliament and

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of detail in there that wasn't confirmed.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have confirmation that players are directly told to

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Speaker 1: fake an injury, for example, but he definitely did not

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Speaker 1: reject this story altogether. He made this point over and

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Speaker 1: over that the discussions between players and club doctors was,

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Speaker 1: in his words, private medical information and it was up

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Speaker 1: to the individual players to disclose publicly.

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Speaker 5: Well. The AFL's medical model involves a multidisciplinary healthcare The

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Speaker 5: monitoring of players is highly confidential. A doctor or healthcare

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Speaker 5: professional generally cannot disclose the nature of the clinical intervention

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Speaker 5: or condition to others unless the player can sense.

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Speaker 1: There was one particularly profound quote from Andrew Dillon yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I was just fascinated by the way that he framed this.

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Speaker 1: He said, there is a difference between what the public

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Speaker 1: is interested in and what is in the public interest.

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Speaker 1: The doctor patient confidentiality is paramount and should be prioritized.

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Speaker 1: And it does raise an interesting question for us as

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Speaker 1: footy fans. I know you're a huge footy fan too, Billy,

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Speaker 1: as to what we actually need to know versus what

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Speaker 1: we want to know.

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Speaker 2: That idea of what is in the public interest and

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Speaker 2: what the public actually finds interesting is something we talk

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Speaker 2: about at TDA all the time, and it clearly can

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Speaker 2: relate to a whole range of the news cycle. Now,

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Speaker 2: something else I found really interesting when I read the

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Speaker 2: CEO's statement is that he said the AFL is unapologetic

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Speaker 2: about this.

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Speaker 1: And when you put that in the context of public

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Speaker 1: statements from a CEO after an allegation or a drama,

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Speaker 1: there often is a lot of apologies. There often is

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Speaker 1: the word sorry. But I think the AFL CEO was

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Speaker 1: really clear yesterday to say that this is normal practice.

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Speaker 1: Club doctors do do drug testing and if that means

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Speaker 1: that they can stop a player from taking the fields

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Speaker 1: and that is in the player's best interest, well this

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Speaker 1: is why. The conversation then really moved into what the

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Speaker 1: AFL's drug policies actually are, so let's dive into it.

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Speaker 1: So there's two big drug policies. There's the Illicit Drugs

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Speaker 1: Policy and their antidoping Code. So when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the antidoping Code, what we're talking about is substances that

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Speaker 1: are banned because they could improve a player's performance, and

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Speaker 1: the AFL has an antidoping code to ensure that players

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Speaker 1: know that they're very very strict and clear consequences for

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Speaker 1: taking performance and antsing drugs. So think of things like

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Speaker 1: steroids here, things that make you a better fully player

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Speaker 1: are totally banned, and you'd likely be banned from the

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Speaker 1: sport for life.

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Speaker 2: But that's not what we're talking about here, right.

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Speaker 1: No, we're talking about illicit drugs that fall of the

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Speaker 1: Illicit Drugs Policy, which is for everything else, including recreational drugs. Now,

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Speaker 1: under that policy, if a player is found to have

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Speaker 1: illicit drugs like cocaine in their system, only the club

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Speaker 1: doctor and the AFL Chief Medical Officer are made aware

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Speaker 1: of the finding. So remember when we heard the coach

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Speaker 1: before saying he wouldn't know. That's kind of true, right,

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Speaker 1: he wouldn't know. It's kept between those two people, and

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Speaker 1: that's to protect the player's confidentiality. But it also means

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Speaker 1: that you know these guys, can take them through a

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Speaker 1: counseling process or provide them with other support to ensure

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Speaker 1: that the problem is being addressed. Now, in order for

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Speaker 1: us to find out about a failed drug test, an

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Speaker 1: AFL player has to have already tested positive for illicit

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Speaker 1: drugs once before, so kind of their second strike is

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Speaker 1: when their name gets released publicly, and if they test

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Speaker 1: positive a third time, that's when there's a twelve month.

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Speaker 2: Ban, right. And so the other thing that happened this

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Speaker 2: week is that two AFL W players were also caught

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Speaker 2: with cocaine. So does that mean that their name was

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Speaker 2: made public because it was the second time that they

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Speaker 2: were caught with it.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's actually a bit of a different situation. They

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Speaker 1: weren't caught with cocaine in their system. They were caught

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Speaker 1: with cocaine in their pocket by the police, and so

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Speaker 1: that became about the fact that they were appearing in

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Speaker 1: court and they had broken the law and been arrested

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Speaker 1: for that. So that's not as much an issue about

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Speaker 1: cocaine in your system and it affecting a performance, but

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Speaker 1: rather the fact that they were in possession of an

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Speaker 1: illicted substance. But those two players were still handed a

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Speaker 1: two game suspension.

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Speaker 2: So the AFL is unapologetic. What does that mean for

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Speaker 2: how they're going to respond to this? Will anything change?

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Speaker 1: It's a really interesting area because I guess the question

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Speaker 1: we're faced with now is if an AFL player tests

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Speaker 1: positive to drugs on a Wednesday and they're not playing

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Speaker 1: until the Sunday, and cocaine only lasts in your system

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Speaker 1: for let's say, forty eight hours. Should that matter and

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Speaker 1: should that matter to us as fans? Should that matters

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Speaker 1: to the code? And when Andrew Dyllan was talking yesterday,

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Speaker 1: he was kind of referencing the fact that the last

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Speaker 1: time the AFL had an update to their drugs policy

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Speaker 1: or a review to the entire policy was to that

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Speaker 1: and five And there's been little tweaks since then, but

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Speaker 1: there hasn't really been a full update to the policy.

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Speaker 1: So he did say that they were looking at that

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Speaker 1: and that would be the next step they take forward.

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Speaker 2: I question before we end, why does it actually matter

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Speaker 2: if we know that athletes take drugs that don't affect

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Speaker 2: their performance.

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Speaker 1: I think this is a really interesting question, Billy. I mean,

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Speaker 1: lots of sports around the world have updated their drug

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Speaker 1: policies to kind of match modern approaches to drug taking.

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Speaker 1: So let's take the fact that the NBA in America,

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Speaker 1: for example, previously had outlawed marijuana and any traces of

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Speaker 1: that being in your system. Now, what do you do

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Speaker 1: when states make marijuana legal and how do you update

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Speaker 1: the code there, especially when you also have research that

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Speaker 1: says that marijuana doesn't affect performance. In fact, it probably

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Speaker 1: makes your worst basketball player. But I think you really

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Speaker 1: have to understand that for the sports this is about

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Speaker 1: their players being role models, and recreational drugs are illegal

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Speaker 1: in Australia, and so the idea that you can be

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Speaker 1: a role model, be idolized by people of all ages,

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Speaker 1: be paid very well to perform, and then also do

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Speaker 1: recreational drugs that's in the legal activity don't quite work

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Speaker 1: hand in hand here. There's of course also some real

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Speaker 1: safety and health concerns. If you turn up to training

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Speaker 1: and you have recreational drugs in your system, you could

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Speaker 1: be putting yourself or others at risk physically. So I

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Speaker 1: think there's lots of reasons why we don't want our

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Speaker 1: sports stars taking recreational drugs, no matter if it's gain

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Speaker 1: day or not. But it will be an interesting area

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Speaker 1: of reform as drug policy in government also reforms, and

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Speaker 1: sport will be forced to go hand in hand with

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Speaker 1: that or face real kind of divides.

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Speaker 2: Talking of a modern approach, there's also an article doing

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Speaker 2: the rounds at the moment, which is actually from last

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Speaker 2: month when another AFL player was caught with cocaine. It's

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Speaker 2: by former AFL player brand In Jack and the headline

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Speaker 2: is AFL players take cocaine just like a million other Australians.

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Speaker 2: Get over it now. That was in the City Morning Herald.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that the media is making more of

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Speaker 2: a big deal about this than it should.

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Speaker 1: Well, I don't really think this story is about whether

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Speaker 1: AFL players do take recreational drugs or not. I think

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Speaker 1: this story is more about does the AFL, as a

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Speaker 1: code and as a professional establishment have practices in place

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Speaker 1: to cover up wrongdoing and to not be honest with

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Speaker 1: their fans, their club members, their officials in terms of

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Speaker 1: the rules and regulations that govern the game. So I

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Speaker 1: think we've got to be careful not to have too

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Speaker 1: much of the focus placed on what our AFL player

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Speaker 1: is actually doing, but rather whether this institutional response, if true,

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Speaker 1: is satisfactory.

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Speaker 2: And we should say that Brandon's story was last month,

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Speaker 2: not in response to the AFL allegedly covering up definitely thing.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining The Daily Os. We

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Speaker 2: really appreciate you being here and supporting independent media. If

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Speaker 2: you like our content and you want to help us grow,

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Speaker 2: our content in front of more people. Thank you so

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Speaker 2: much and we'll see you tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations.

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Speaker 2: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 2: both past and present.