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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, let's put this into context and accept and acknowledge

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Speaker 2: that every now and again the children are going to

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Speaker 2: be unkind towards one another. And that's life.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: It's just occurred to me. We're in September. It's the

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Speaker 2: seventh of September. What has happened to the year, Missus Coulson,

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Speaker 2: Missus Happy Families. No one's traveling. Half the country's in lockdown.

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Speaker 3: I think everybody's just renovating. Do you know how hard

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Speaker 3: it is to find a trading these days.

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Speaker 2: We had to call a tradesman recently and they.

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Speaker 3: Told us he couldn't come from next year. Now that's right,

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Speaker 3: not to mention how much the price had increased since

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Speaker 3: last year when we had him.

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Speaker 2: Quote, we're talking this is a special week about COVID.

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Speaker 2: This week we're talking about all the dramas associated with

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Speaker 2: raising a family during COVID. But let's just acknowledge the

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Speaker 2: reality that if you want to get a trade during COVID,

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Speaker 2: I really chose the wrong profession, didn't I like tradees

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Speaker 2: have got to be doing okay right now? Mind you,

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Speaker 2: they are saying the prices have gone up, it's not

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Speaker 2: their fault. Tough time to be renovating. Good luck if

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Speaker 2: that's where you are.

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Speaker 3: A memory popped up in my Facebook feed the other

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Speaker 3: day and I haven't shared it with you, but it

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Speaker 3: was so awesome and so characteristic of miss Ella so

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Speaker 3: ELA's seventeen Yep, this was five years ago.

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Speaker 2: Okay, six years ago, Okay, six years ago.

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Speaker 3: So Elie says to me last night, Mum, why are

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Speaker 3: you so awesome? My first thought was just a fobber off,

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Speaker 3: but my response, I was just born that way. Her

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Speaker 3: comeback was gold. Now I know why I'm so awesome.

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Speaker 3: It's just in my blood.

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Speaker 2: How good is that kid? She's so good? Brilliant stuff. Oh,

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Speaker 2: by the way, we are doctor Justin and Kylie Coulson.

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Speaker 2: I'm the author of a bunch of books about making

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Speaker 2: your family happier. Kylie, mum do our six daughters and

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Speaker 2: my wife. Since the late nineteen nineties. I've stopped counting

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Speaker 2: the years because it still feels like we're right at

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Speaker 2: the beginning and there's so much to look forward to. However,

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Speaker 2: COVID certainly can make some of our years feel longer.

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Speaker 2: And today, as we do every Tuesday, we want to

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Speaker 2: answer your questions about how to survive life with whatever

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Speaker 2: you're doing family wise. This is a special COVID question

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Speaker 2: from Carol.

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Speaker 3: She says tips for dealing with sibling rivalry.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I have.

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Speaker 3: A twelve year old boy, seven year old girl, and

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Speaker 3: in the context of the pressure cooker of COVID, how

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Speaker 3: do I help my daughter deal with her emotions. She's

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Speaker 3: very good at verbalizing them, but she gets overwhelmed and

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Speaker 3: reactive and blames others.

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Speaker 2: So twelve year old boys, seven year old girl. And

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Speaker 2: this is the thing with siblings, right, And if you've

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Speaker 2: been listening a long time listener of the podcast, you

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Speaker 2: will have heard me say this before. As adults, we

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Speaker 2: still struggle with our siblings sometimes like we're grown ups.

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Speaker 2: We're mature. We know how to regulate our behavior and

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Speaker 2: our emotions. We know how we're supposed to soften the relationship.

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Speaker 2: Makes everything work out curly.

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Speaker 3: We get to live in separate houses. That makes a

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Speaker 3: huge difference.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes we know just live in separate houses, we live

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Speaker 2: in separate states or countries, and we still kind of

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Speaker 2: roll or us and going, oh do I have to

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Speaker 2: spend time with my siblings? Like really? So when I

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Speaker 2: hear parents complain about the kids not getting on so well,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, how old are you and how's that going

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Speaker 2: for you? Like really?

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Speaker 3: But I think you know, she puts it into context.

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Speaker 3: This is pressure cooker, and I don't think it's even COVID.

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Speaker 3: COVID is definitely exacerbating it for families who are stuck

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Speaker 3: in lockdown. But the reality is the pressure cooker is

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Speaker 3: the family.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's right. But if you're in a lockdown

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Speaker 2: situation and the kids, I mean, they're stuck with each other, right.

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Speaker 2: Government regulations, depending on how restrictive things are where you live,

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Speaker 2: may only allow you to get out of the house

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Speaker 2: for an hour to see somebody from not your household

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Speaker 2: for an hour, so long as you're exercising and socially

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Speaker 2: distancing and running around a park or something like that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just so challenging. And so when parents

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Speaker 2: say to me, I just want my kids to get

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Speaker 2: along right there with you, like we've got six of

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Speaker 2: our own daughters, and it tears our hearts out when

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Speaker 2: they're unkind to each other because we try so hard

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Speaker 2: to model kindness in our home.

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Speaker 3: Well, on the other end, I think I think some

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Speaker 3: of our most beautiful moments as a family is when

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Speaker 3: we've just taken a step back and hurt the kids

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Speaker 3: in the background, and everyone's laughing, or they're just having

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Speaker 3: a conversation together.

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Speaker 2: It's just yeah, it's like the.

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Speaker 3: Angels are sinking, the heavens are streaming down, and it

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Speaker 3: just feels so good when you have those moments.

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Speaker 2: I guess my point is we as adults didn't get

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Speaker 2: along with our siblings when we were younger. For the

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Speaker 2: most part. Pretty much everyone I talk to it says, yeah,

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Speaker 2: it didn't get on with my brother or my sister

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Speaker 2: or whatever. And even as adults, we still struggle with

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Speaker 2: them now, and so our expectation that our children are

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Speaker 2: going to get along with their siblings may be a

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Speaker 2: little unfair, and developmentally it's hard because they don't have

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Speaker 2: the same skills that we do in terms of emotional

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Speaker 2: and behavioral regulation, ability to communicate, and sometimes they're sharing

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Speaker 2: the same room in COVID, they're sharing the same house

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Speaker 2: twenty three hours a day, so it's really unfair.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: The other point I want the other hour, Well, that's

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Speaker 2: when they're going and exercising. I get out of the

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Speaker 2: house and they don't have to put up with their

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Speaker 2: siblings for that hour, depending on how old they are.

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Speaker 2: But I mean, you've got a seven year old and

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Speaker 2: a twelve year old, like they're stuck right now in

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Speaker 2: a lockdown situation. The other thing that strikes me when

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Speaker 2: I think about this whole parenting and sibling getting along

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Speaker 2: with others situation is they didn't actually choose to be siblings.

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Speaker 2: The parents made the choice to have the sibling. They're

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Speaker 2: stuck with somebody that they didn't even choose to be with.

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Speaker 2: But here's the great irony here, even as adults who

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Speaker 2: have chosen to be in a mutual and consensual intimate relationship.

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Speaker 2: I've picked you, Kylie. I've said you're the one that

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Speaker 2: I want to be with for the rest of my

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Speaker 2: life forever. You're my everything. You complete me. To quote

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Speaker 2: Tom Cruise in Jerry maguire, was it Jerry McGuire, I

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Speaker 2: don't know there's a you complete me like, I'm pretty

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Speaker 2: sure it's in Jerry maguire, And yet we still struggle

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Speaker 2: to get along sometimes. What are you saying I'm just

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Speaker 2: being honest, like every every intimate relationship that I'm to

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Speaker 2: be a bit testy sometimes I can be really, you're

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Speaker 2: going to put that in. I can't for that.

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Speaker 3: You're saying that, well, look, everyone listening is my friend.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's right, And I can't say what

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Speaker 2: happened just a couple of weeks ago when I wasn't testy,

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Speaker 2: but somebody sure was not saying anything about that. So again,

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Speaker 2: the point is, we struggle, even as adults to get

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Speaker 2: along with the person that we've chosen to be with,

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Speaker 2: and so to ask the kids to get along with

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Speaker 2: one another. I just think sometimes our expectations on the

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Speaker 2: kids are a little bit unfair. Does that mean we

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Speaker 2: should give up and say, oh, well they're not going

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Speaker 2: to get along? No, of course not. It just means

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Speaker 2: let's put this into context and accept and acknowledge that

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Speaker 2: every now and again the children are going to be

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Speaker 2: unkind towards one another, and that's life. And sometimes they're

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Speaker 2: going to be brutally unkind, and sometimes it's not going

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Speaker 2: to be sometimes sometimes it's going to feel like it's

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Speaker 2: all the time. But we do need to help, so

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Speaker 2: we're fast running out of time already, and we've got

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Speaker 2: to take a break. But before we do that, I

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Speaker 2: want to share my number one tip that I've been

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Speaker 2: experimenting with lately. I had a conversation with doctor Jodi Richardson.

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Speaker 2: She wrote a book with Michael Gross called Anxious Kids,

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Speaker 2: and we were catching up a few weeks ago, and

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Speaker 2: it was a really interesting discussion that we had, and

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Speaker 2: she shared with me a line that she has found

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Speaker 2: extraordinarily useful, and I thought, I'm all for a simple script.

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Speaker 2: I don't know anyone that'll say no to a script.

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Speaker 2: Tell me if you've noticed that I've been saying this lately.

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Speaker 2: I'll say to the kids when they're fighting, I'll say, Annie,

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Speaker 2: is that helpful? Have you heard me say that?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: Oh, where have you been. I'm the only one doing

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Speaker 2: any parenting around here, for goodness sakes, I've probably been

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Speaker 2: hanging the washing. That pile just keeps getting bigger and

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Speaker 2: bigger these days. Yet laundry, that's what you do. The laundry.

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Speaker 2: That's it. Laundry and cooking. And I've just found that

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Speaker 2: that one question, because here's the thing. Sometimes if we

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Speaker 2: sit down with the kids and we say we want

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Speaker 2: to have a nice family. We start the lecture about

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Speaker 2: how our family should feel and how it should be,

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Speaker 2: and how we're supposed to respect one another and treat

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Speaker 2: one another nicely, and in the moment, the reality is

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Speaker 2: they don't care. They're upset, they're feeling offended, they're feeling

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Speaker 2: like their brother or their sister is the worst person

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Speaker 2: on the whole planet. And we're trying to tell them

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Speaker 2: to be nice and they look at us and they're like,

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Speaker 2: I don't care. I just don't care. So a helpful

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Speaker 2: question is is this helpful? And it changes the focus

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Speaker 2: of what we're doing. We immediately become oriented towards moving

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Speaker 2: in a positive direction rather than dwelling on all the

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Speaker 2: dramas that are happening in that sibling relationship. Do you

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Speaker 2: like that?

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Speaker 3: That sounds great? Well, right after the break, I'll share

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Speaker 3: a few of my ideas.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 4: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having

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Speaker 4: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts

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Speaker 4: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits

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Speaker 4: with love, compassion, and humanity. Find it now at happyfamilies

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Speaker 4: dot com dot au. Slash Shop.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now, and today we

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Speaker 3: are helping, hopefully helping Carol with her pressure cooker challenge

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Speaker 3: of children and sibling rivalry, so a couple of things

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Speaker 3: that we do in our house that it just makes

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Speaker 3: such a difference, and we've talked about them lots of

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Speaker 3: times on the podcast. We have these parenting personal parenting

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Speaker 3: interviews with.

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Speaker 2: Our kids yep and once a week.

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Speaker 3: And what we find is that when things aren't going well,

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Speaker 3: our kids have got their own issues that they're dealing with.

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Speaker 3: When you talk about what Carol's describing their family, you know,

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Speaker 3: stuck in lockdown and all of the challenges with that.

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Speaker 3: All of the family members mom, dad, and siblings are

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Speaker 3: all dealing with it in different ways and having that

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Speaker 3: safe space where they can just talk one on one

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Speaker 3: with Mum. What's going well right now? Let's actually look

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Speaker 3: at that what's going well. You might not be able

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Speaker 3: to find anything because things feel so hard right now,

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Speaker 3: and that may be the problem.

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Speaker 2: Whether it's COVID or not. This is a great process

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Speaker 2: to go through.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and then let's talk about what's not going well,

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Speaker 3: and nine times out of ten, if there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of conflict, your child's going to pinpoint that it's not

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Speaker 3: you pointing out that it's gone wrong. They are actually

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Speaker 3: able to eg knowledge it themselves.

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Speaker 2: What's really going on here is we are modeling the

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Speaker 2: very perspective that we want them to be able to

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Speaker 2: exhibit with their siblings. When we sit down and we

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Speaker 2: get curious, not furious, when we sit down and we understand,

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Speaker 2: don't reprimand when we explore rather than explode, what we're

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Speaker 2: effectively doing is we are modeling the exact behavior that

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Speaker 2: we want them to exhibit themselves when they're going through

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Speaker 2: challenges with their siblings or just in life in general.

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Speaker 2: We're giving them the strategy by walking through it as

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Speaker 2: a mature parent who's gently guiding, not by teaching explicitly,

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Speaker 2: but rather just by showing. This is how we resolve

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Speaker 2: our challenges. We look at what's going right, what's going wrong,

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Speaker 2: and then we focus on what we can do to

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Speaker 2: make things better.

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Speaker 3: We had an amazing conversation last week with Wally Godard,

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Speaker 3: Oh Yes, and there was so much out of what

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Speaker 3: he said that just fits and beautifully with what we're

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Speaker 3: talking about today. But one of the things that really

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Speaker 3: stood out to me he talked about compassion.

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Speaker 2: In case before we talk about what he said about compassion.

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Speaker 2: In case you missed the conversation, please go back to

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Speaker 2: last Wednesday. We'll link to it in the show notes.

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Speaker 2: Conversation with Professor H. Wallace Goddard and mentor to me

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Speaker 2: for nearly twenty years now. The guy was just he

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Speaker 2: was so good and we got so much positive feedback,

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Speaker 2: and his comments about compassion are just so perfect for

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Speaker 2: this discussion that we're having now.

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Speaker 3: He just articulated it so well. If we want our

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Speaker 3: children to understand and learn compassion, we need to model it.

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Speaker 3: But what happens in most homes when we're dealing with

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Speaker 3: sibling rivalry. We catch the emotion of the room, don't

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Speaker 3: we We blow up as parents, and Wed, I wish

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Speaker 3: you would just stop. And yet the recognition that if

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Speaker 3: we want our children to be soft with one another,

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Speaker 3: then we need to show them a different way of

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Speaker 3: doing it.

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Speaker 2: And I just loved that. So your conversation about sitting

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Speaker 2: down with the kids and just exploring their world with them,

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Speaker 2: asking them what's going right and what's going wrong? Is

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Speaker 2: it's an exercise in compassion. It's giving our children a

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Speaker 2: sense that we are suffering right there beside them, not

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Speaker 2: in judgment, not telling them how it ought to be,

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Speaker 2: not there to fix things, but just to listen and

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Speaker 2: be with them, and that conversation it teaches empathy, It

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Speaker 2: gives them, it teaches what it is to take perspective,

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Speaker 2: and it teaches them that they are not alone.

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Speaker 3: With six girls in our house, we've had our fair

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Speaker 3: share of sibling rivalry.

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Speaker 2: And opportunities to show compassion.

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Speaker 3: And in those conversations when we ask you know, what's

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Speaker 3: going wrong, they will often get very, very worked up

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Speaker 3: about the injustice of the way they're being treated by

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Speaker 3: other siblings. And it can be very easy for a

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Speaker 3: parent to step in and tell them, well, if you

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Speaker 3: just stop doing X, Y and Z, that you would

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Speaker 3: alleviate a lot of the challenge.

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Speaker 2: You know what I call that, by the way, victim blaming.

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Speaker 2: When you've got a child who's been hit by their

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Speaker 2: big brother and you said, well, if you didn't tease them,

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Speaker 2: it wouldn't happen, you're actually blaming the victim. You're teaching

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Speaker 2: your children that they're the reason that their sibling has

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Speaker 2: treated them badly. Everyone gets upset about victim blaming out

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Speaker 2: in the community, but we teach it in our homes.

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Speaker 3: But it's interesting even when they are in the wrong,

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Speaker 3: telling them that they're in the wrong while they're suffering, yeah,

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Speaker 3: is not helpful.

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Speaker 2: No, no learning happens.

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Speaker 3: And so the opportunity that we have as parents to

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Speaker 3: sit with them in that space and suffer with them.

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Speaker 3: They're hurting, This hurts.

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Speaker 2: Put your arms around them, give them a hard and

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Speaker 2: say it's really hard, isn't it. This is so hard

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Speaker 2: being stuck in lockdown, not seeing your friends, not being

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Speaker 2: able to get out and do the things that you

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Speaker 2: care about, missing birthdays, missing horse riding, or missing soccer

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Speaker 2: or netball or whatever it is. I'm using horse riding

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Speaker 2: because we've promised one of our kids horse riding for

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Speaker 2: months and months and months. Not that I want to

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Speaker 2: do it because it's going to cost a names of fortune,

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Speaker 2: but we've promised her and so she's going to get

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Speaker 2: to do it. But lockdowns have even gotten in the

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Speaker 2: way of that for her, and just sitting and putting

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Speaker 2: her arms around and saying, wouldn't it be great if

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Speaker 2: it was differ This is so hard that's the stuff

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Speaker 2: that matters, and the kids feel understood. Here's the other

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Speaker 2: thing that I'm going to say. I'm throwing my list out.

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Speaker 2: I had a whole lot of things that I was

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Speaker 2: going to say, and I love what you've raised, so

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Speaker 2: we might wrap it up with this. Your children actually

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Speaker 2: know how to behave the right way. They know that

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Speaker 2: they're supposed to treat their siblings with kindness. They know

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Speaker 2: that they're not supposed to pull hair, call names, say

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Speaker 2: nasty things, all that sort of. They know that, but

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Speaker 2: they get caught up in the moment. And when we

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Speaker 2: sit down with them and we have that compassion, when

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Speaker 2: we have that perspective, when we have that empathy, when

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Speaker 2: we model the very thing that we need them to

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Speaker 2: demonstrate themselves, they feel safe, they feel understood, their emotions

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Speaker 2: calm right back down, and then they go out and

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Speaker 2: they treat people well. We don't actually have to do

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Speaker 2: any explicit teaching at all.

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Speaker 3: And the wonderful thing about this process is that we

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Speaker 3: show them that we trust that the answers are in them.

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Speaker 3: We don't have to fix the problem. Nine times out

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Speaker 3: of ten, they'll work us out by themselves. But they

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Speaker 3: just need feel heard.

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Speaker 2: Can you hear this? That's my list of ideas that

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Speaker 2: I was going to share. I love what you had

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Speaker 2: to say there and ungrateful that we were able to

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Speaker 2: have this conversation. Carol. We really hope that this is

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Speaker 2: helpful for you and that it makes a difference in

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Speaker 2: your home with your kids and their siblings squabbles, and

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Speaker 2: for any parent who's either in a lockdown or not

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Speaker 2: who's got kids who are not getting along particularly well.

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Speaker 2: We hope that this has been a helpful conversation. The

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Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 2: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. We hope that you

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Speaker 2: love the podcast so much that you'd be willing to

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Speaker 2: take about sixty seconds to jump into the Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 2: app or wherever you get your podcasts and leave a

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Speaker 2: five star rating and review. When you do that, what

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Speaker 2: happens is that the Apple algorithm realizes that people are listening,

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Speaker 2: they're leaving comments, they're enjoying the podcast, and it raises

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Speaker 2: the profile of our podcast so that more people can

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Speaker 2: find it, and that well, that means more people get

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Speaker 2: to make their families happier and solve those sibling challenges

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Speaker 2: and all the rest of it as well, So please

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Speaker 2: jump online and take sixty seconds. We'd be so, so

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Speaker 2: very grateful if you would do that. If you'd like

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Speaker 2: to know more about making your family happier, by the way,

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Speaker 2: check out our Happy Families memberships. Oh and the Misconnection Summit.

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Speaker 2: It's happening early October. The early Bird Special doesn't last

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Speaker 2: much longer. Please go and find out about it. If

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Speaker 2: you've got kids between eight and eighteen, it's all about

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Speaker 2: raising tween and teen girls, with some of the best

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Speaker 2: experts on that in the country. Joining me for the

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Speaker 2: Misconnection Summit in the next few weeks. Check it out

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Speaker 2: at Happy families dot com dot a u