1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,520
Speaker 1: So I needed to shift my thinking from wanting to

2
00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,000
Speaker 1: seem like the smartest person in the room to wanting

3
00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:10,000
Speaker 1: to leave the room being the smartest person in the room.

4
00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:13,039
Speaker 1: And it was It meant that I needed to ask

5
00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,599
Speaker 1: questions constantly, and I needed to not care whether it

6
00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:18,919
Speaker 1: made me look like an idiot.

7
00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,160
Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

8
00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,440
Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of

9
00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,200
Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an

10
00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,319
Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm

11
00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,400
Speaker 2: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work date. My

12
00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:44,520
Speaker 2: guest today is Cyan taid Si is one of Australia's

13
00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 2: most successful entrepreneurs, having co founded and vatoed in two

14
00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,479
Speaker 2: thousand and six and growing it to being valued now

15
00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 2: at over one billion dollars. Last year, she tried her

16
00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,920
Speaker 2: hand at chocolate you Know Why Not, and her chocolate

17
00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:04,160
Speaker 2: brand Hey Tiger is now one of Australia's fastest growing

18
00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:08,119
Speaker 2: purpose driven brands, and in her spare time, she recently

19
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,640
Speaker 2: launched Milkshake dot app, which allows users to make a

20
00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:16,120
Speaker 2: free website for their Instagram profile all on their phone instantly. Now.

21
00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:20,720
Speaker 2: I first met Si about four years ago when we

22
00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,319
Speaker 2: were both finalists in the Telstra Businesswomen of the Year

23
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:26,120
Speaker 2: Awards in the Entrepreneur category.

24
00:01:26,440 --> 00:01:27,440
Speaker 3: And I remember when I.

25
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:32,120
Speaker 2: Met Cy and learned about what she had done with

26
00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,120
Speaker 2: her business life. I remember thinking, okay, she has definitely

27
00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,840
Speaker 2: won our category and she went on to become the

28
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:45,360
Speaker 2: Victorian Telstra Businesswomen of the Year in that year. Since then,

29
00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:51,400
Speaker 2: Cy and I actually meet every month with a business

30
00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,200
Speaker 2: women's kind of like a peer mentoring group that I

31
00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,920
Speaker 2: started a couple of years ago where nine female founder

32
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,040
Speaker 2: slash CEO women meet every month to talk about our

33
00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,200
Speaker 2: business and get advice and help and.

34
00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:10,000
Speaker 3: Support on the various challenges that we.

35
00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:15,080
Speaker 2: Face as female entrepreneurs in Australia. Now I should add

36
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:19,080
Speaker 2: that this was also the very first How I Work

37
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,480
Speaker 2: interview that was recorded in front of a live audience,

38
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:27,359
Speaker 2: and all ticket sales went to size charity of choice,

39
00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:30,200
Speaker 2: the Hunger Project, which she talks a little bit about.

40
00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:31,840
Speaker 3: Towards the end of this interview.

41
00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,160
Speaker 2: So I love this chat with Ci, and I reckon

42
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 2: you will love it.

43
00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:36,560
Speaker 3: Love it too.

44
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:42,919
Speaker 2: Ci is just so genuine and humble and really generous

45
00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:43,960
Speaker 2: with her tips.

46
00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,000
Speaker 3: We cover all sorts of things, from her.

47
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:53,840
Speaker 2: Very fascinating and well thought through strategies for overcoming imposter syndrome,

48
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,440
Speaker 2: through to why she once had an app on her

49
00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,320
Speaker 2: phone that reminded her that she's going to die five

50
00:03:00,360 --> 00:03:01,359
Speaker 2: times per day.

51
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,239
Speaker 3: She has since deleted that.

52
00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 2: App, So on that note over to side to hear

53
00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,240
Speaker 2: about how she works.

54
00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,359
Speaker 3: SI, welcome to the show.

55
00:03:11,760 --> 00:03:13,000
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Amantha.

56
00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:15,679
Speaker 3: Where I do want to start is not where i'd

57
00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:16,320
Speaker 3: plan to start.

58
00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:21,080
Speaker 2: But before we were about to kick on and get started,

59
00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:26,480
Speaker 2: you told me that you'd like recently dramatically cut down

60
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:29,080
Speaker 2: the amount of time that you're spending on your phone.

61
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:31,680
Speaker 2: Can you tell me like what you were spending and

62
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:32,799
Speaker 2: what you're now spending.

63
00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 4: So I was.

64
00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 1: Probably spending about four hours a day and it was

65
00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,760
Speaker 1: getting to the point where it was a little bit manic.

66
00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:45,960
Speaker 1: I do have a tendency towards intensity, surprisingly enough, and

67
00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 1: I found that I was just constantly, you know, checking email, Shopify, Instagram,

68
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:56,720
Speaker 1: what else, like a whole range of different sort of

69
00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,840
Speaker 1: different apps and pieces of data which I wasn't actually

70
00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,600
Speaker 1: getting a huge amount out of. And it was becoming

71
00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,800
Speaker 1: quite a destructive habit. And one of the things that

72
00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: you should know is that Amantha and I are actually

73
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:12,680
Speaker 1: part of a peer mentoring group together, and so I've known.

74
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,880
Speaker 4: Each other for quite some time. And one day Amantha's.

75
00:04:16,279 --> 00:04:20,800
Speaker 1: Mother came in and she is a clinical psychologist, is

76
00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,040
Speaker 1: that correct, And one of her areas of speciality is hypnotism.

77
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 1: I'd never been hypnotized before. I am a control freak,

78
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,000
Speaker 1: so out of everyone in the room, I was exceptionally

79
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 1: uncomfortable with this and actually said, I'm very uncomfortable, but

80
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:35,719
Speaker 1: I'm going to train anyway, because she was so lovely

81
00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:41,559
Speaker 1: and I trust and trust her, and she was Amantha's mum.

82
00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,359
Speaker 4: And it was the It was really intense.

83
00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:47,200
Speaker 1: I found that just after being hypnotized for five minutes,

84
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:49,400
Speaker 1: I went away and I went all the way to

85
00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 1: work afterwards. I didn't pick up my phone once, and

86
00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,680
Speaker 1: I was in really in the present moment, and I realized,

87
00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: I think I'd been veering a little bit too much

88
00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:58,360
Speaker 1: towards kind of.

89
00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,800
Speaker 4: Fight or f light. Adrenaline filled.

90
00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:06,880
Speaker 1: That way of being, and I thought, Okay, it'll be

91
00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,440
Speaker 1: an interesting experiment. I tend to like to experiment on

92
00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,800
Speaker 1: myself a little bit in harmless ways, but you know,

93
00:05:12,880 --> 00:05:13,480
Speaker 1: to see what.

94
00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:15,520
Speaker 4: To see what effect things will have.

95
00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,760
Speaker 1: And I thought, well, if I minimize my phone used

96
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,719
Speaker 1: for a little while, what effect is that going to

97
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,480
Speaker 1: have on me? And I've probably gone down to an

98
00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:26,000
Speaker 1: average of about fifteen minutes a day.

99
00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 2: Fifteen minutes that that is nothing like out of interest?

100
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,360
Speaker 3: What is consuming that fifteen minutes?

101
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:35,480
Speaker 4: Phone calls? Honestly?

102
00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:40,839
Speaker 3: Wow, So just overnight you just do you know, I

103
00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:41,880
Speaker 3: scaled down.

104
00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:44,880
Speaker 1: I mean that experience with your mum was so intense

105
00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,279
Speaker 1: that I you know, and I have to say, you know, prior,

106
00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:52,160
Speaker 1: as you know, I was quite not critical of hypnotism,

107
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,960
Speaker 1: but I didn't understand it and I haven't been hypnotized since,

108
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 1: so this was this one experience, but I'm drawing on

109
00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,479
Speaker 1: But I was just like, wow, this was really intense.

110
00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:04,760
Speaker 1: But the difference in me made me realize that I

111
00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:09,719
Speaker 1: clearly was not present enough prior to this. So really

112
00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,560
Speaker 1: it's kind of more about being, you know, trying to

113
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:14,960
Speaker 1: be in the present moment, I think, which is important

114
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 1: for me. I tend to look ahead all the time.

115
00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,039
Speaker 2: And did you change anything on your phone to make

116
00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 2: it less addictive?

117
00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:30,200
Speaker 1: I tend to take apps off my phone, so I've

118
00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,359
Speaker 1: you know, I'll wait until I'm on Wi Fi before

119
00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,000
Speaker 1: I kind of, you know, load something back on again.

120
00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,320
Speaker 1: But I will take off quite a few of the

121
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 1: different apps that I have and then load them back

122
00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:44,360
Speaker 1: on when I actually need them, as opposed to having

123
00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,520
Speaker 1: them all the time, because if they're there, I will

124
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:47,720
Speaker 1: check them compulsively.

125
00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:49,920
Speaker 3: That that's a great trick.

126
00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, I've heard people do a slightly less extreme

127
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,359
Speaker 2: where they log themselves out of say social media apps,

128
00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,039
Speaker 2: for example, but you'll actually delete them.

129
00:06:58,240 --> 00:06:58,720
Speaker 3: I delete it.

130
00:06:59,000 --> 00:06:59,360
Speaker 4: I don't.

131
00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:03,480
Speaker 1: I really need to do it to the most extreme

132
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,080
Speaker 1: because if I'm just not logged in ibably, like.

133
00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:08,760
Speaker 4: Ah, just think it's easy.

134
00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,400
Speaker 1: I need to kind of train myself out of it.

135
00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:13,640
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, it's all about habit as you.

136
00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,840
Speaker 2: Know, fantastic And so what are you now doing with

137
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,400
Speaker 2: the three hours and forty five minutes that you're no

138
00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 2: longer consumed on your phone?

139
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:27,880
Speaker 1: So for a long time, I've been aware that when

140
00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:32,800
Speaker 1: I'm constantly surrounded by input, when I'm constantly consuming output,

141
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 1: becomes a lot more difficult for me. I'm aware that

142
00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,280
Speaker 1: I need to have plenty of time for output in

143
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 1: order to do good work.

144
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,560
Speaker 4: So when I'm doing good, useful work.

145
00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,480
Speaker 1: It's actually quite creative, and that means I need time

146
00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:50,240
Speaker 1: and I need space. So honestly, I think just you know,

147
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,080
Speaker 1: it's things like on the way in, not staring at

148
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:55,679
Speaker 1: my email and my phone the whole time.

149
00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:58,360
Speaker 4: But instead looking around me. It's really really simple things.

150
00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 1: The interesting thing is is I find that I'm more

151
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,239
Speaker 1: effective because I'm giving my brain time to figure things out,

152
00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:09,360
Speaker 1: whereas if I'm constantly looking at data and kind of

153
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 1: external noise, I'm not nearly as effective in that way.

154
00:08:14,360 --> 00:08:15,000
Speaker 3: That's interesting.

155
00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 2: It reminds me of something that the previous guests said

156
00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:20,679
Speaker 2: to me, who were actually just talking about before. Professor

157
00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,800
Speaker 2: Adam Alter, who studied digital addiction, and he did this

158
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:29,400
Speaker 2: experiment where he gets a lot of ideas for research

159
00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,400
Speaker 2: studies for example, that he wants to conduct and books

160
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 2: that he wants to write, and in his notebook he

161
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,040
Speaker 2: writes his ideas and any idea that comes when he's

162
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,720
Speaker 2: in a state of boredom, let's say so, not consuming stimulus,

163
00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,480
Speaker 2: he asterixes them. And what he found when you look

164
00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,280
Speaker 2: back at it is all the ideas that came to

165
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,840
Speaker 2: him in a state of not consuming stimulus.

166
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,439
Speaker 3: He thought were far better, which is really interesting.

167
00:08:55,040 --> 00:09:00,160
Speaker 2: So it's really about just being present and not of

168
00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:02,559
Speaker 2: constantly in putting stimulus into your brain.

169
00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:05,280
Speaker 4: I think so, and I think that my tendency, you know, I.

170
00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,920
Speaker 1: Tend to be very focused on results, and I think

171
00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,920
Speaker 1: that sometimes I get into the habit of thinking that

172
00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:12,960
Speaker 1: I need to be like a machine. So in tech

173
00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:17,240
Speaker 1: there's quite a bit of you know, stuff about you know, biohacking,

174
00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,319
Speaker 1: and I am going to document every single moment of

175
00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:21,840
Speaker 1: the day and what I spend it on to see

176
00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,200
Speaker 1: if I'm spending it on the optimum amount, you know,

177
00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:28,120
Speaker 1: the optimum things, and it's really intense, and it's not

178
00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 1: very nurturing, to be totally honest, it's not nurturing at all.

179
00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:34,480
Speaker 4: And I think for a long time I really veered

180
00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:36,160
Speaker 4: that way. I'm going to become.

181
00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:40,960
Speaker 1: As efficient as possible and as effective as possible. And

182
00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,640
Speaker 1: again I do want to be efficient and effective, but

183
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,920
Speaker 1: I don't think it's.

184
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:47,760
Speaker 4: Also about the process.

185
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,079
Speaker 1: It's also about enjoying and being present in the process

186
00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:55,199
Speaker 1: of what you do, and so reading things like you know,

187
00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,880
Speaker 1: there's a book I'm reading at the moment which is

188
00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:05,360
Speaker 1: called Daily Rituals, and it's basically the rituals of incredible writers, composers, artists,

189
00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:08,720
Speaker 1: and they're talking about how they spend their day, so

190
00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:14,199
Speaker 1: basically their day is documented out, and a consistency amongst

191
00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:17,680
Speaker 1: them is that there's a lot of time, there's a

192
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:21,360
Speaker 1: lot of time where maybe you know they're not you know,

193
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:25,760
Speaker 1: it's not output, it's just being still and letting themselves process.

194
00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:28,199
Speaker 1: And I think that you know anything that you're doing,

195
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:32,080
Speaker 1: which is really hard, and startups are really hard, very

196
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 1: entire very tiring, very mentally taxing. And that's not just

197
00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:38,120
Speaker 1: true of me, that's true of anyone that works in

198
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,440
Speaker 1: a startup. It's exhausting and you need time, time to

199
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,040
Speaker 1: process and time to time to let the good things

200
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:44,959
Speaker 1: come out because it is.

201
00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:45,800
Speaker 4: About being creative.

202
00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:48,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's an interesting book that one.

203
00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,119
Speaker 2: And I want to know in your life, what rituals

204
00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:53,800
Speaker 2: do you have that you found serve you well, whether

205
00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:56,600
Speaker 2: they'd be daily, weekly, fortnightly, what does that look like

206
00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:56,920
Speaker 2: for you?

207
00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:02,520
Speaker 1: I think the so in terms of yearly ritual my

208
00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,240
Speaker 1: family and I we play a game. My husband and

209
00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:07,640
Speaker 1: I started doing it when we first got married years ago,

210
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:11,000
Speaker 1: and it was this is the year that on New

211
00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,000
Speaker 1: Year's Day, so I personally hate New Year's Eve.

212
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:15,199
Speaker 4: I think there's too much pressure.

213
00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:18,200
Speaker 1: I'd rather go a bit early and then wake up early,

214
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,120
Speaker 1: you know, the following day, on Year's Day, and go, Okay,

215
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:23,920
Speaker 1: what's this new year going to be? So we set

216
00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:25,720
Speaker 1: up this tradition, which is this is the year that

217
00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:29,160
Speaker 1: where we just pingpong back and forth and talk about

218
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,960
Speaker 1: all the things that happened in the past year, and

219
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:34,560
Speaker 1: then we switched to all the things that we want

220
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:36,560
Speaker 1: for the new year, and then we write them down

221
00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:41,040
Speaker 1: and it's not, well, I should, that doesn't work for me.

222
00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:43,880
Speaker 4: I should has never worked for me. I want is

223
00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:44,880
Speaker 4: really effective for me.

224
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,559
Speaker 1: And so that time for kind of it's a great

225
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:52,040
Speaker 1: time in terms of blue sky thinking to go all right,

226
00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,040
Speaker 1: you know, if everything's on the table, what is it

227
00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:57,960
Speaker 1: that I actually want for this coming year?

228
00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 4: What is interesting to me? So that I always really

229
00:12:03,559 --> 00:12:06,439
Speaker 4: enjoy And then probably every quarter I try and.

230
00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 1: Reflect on those things and you know, are they relevant,

231
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,120
Speaker 1: are they still relevant? Are they still exciting? How far

232
00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,040
Speaker 1: can I come? But again not about have I succeeded

233
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,520
Speaker 1: or failed? Because in the past my self talk has

234
00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,120
Speaker 1: been quite very critical.

235
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,720
Speaker 4: I think most people who are high achieving start out

236
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 4: with their self talk being very critical.

237
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:27,840
Speaker 1: But you know, what is it that's kind of you know,

238
00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,440
Speaker 1: what's exciting, what's interesting? If I want to live a

239
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:32,680
Speaker 1: big life, what is it that I'm going to be doing.

240
00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:34,280
Speaker 4: Again?

241
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 1: I you know, probably every morning I read either you know,

242
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:43,080
Speaker 1: something like Daily Rituals just one or you know, Tribe

243
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,480
Speaker 1: of Mentors just one chapter, and I just try and like,

244
00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,960
Speaker 1: let let my day be a reflection of anything that

245
00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,800
Speaker 1: resonated with me during during that during that reading session,

246
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 1: and generally it's like five minutes.

247
00:12:57,520 --> 00:12:58,960
Speaker 4: It's really not a long time.

248
00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,120
Speaker 1: And I think the only other thing is ensuring again

249
00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,280
Speaker 1: that I have time to be still and to really

250
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:08,240
Speaker 1: think and not just be running from one thing to

251
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,800
Speaker 1: the next. And that requires constant readjustment. I'm constantly going, oh,

252
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:13,800
Speaker 1: I've pushed.

253
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:14,000
Speaker 4: It too far.

254
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,839
Speaker 1: I don't have any time because it is very easy

255
00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 1: for me to completely fill my time up and take

256
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:25,200
Speaker 1: it back to Okay, well, where am I personally providing value?

257
00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,120
Speaker 1: What value do I provide in this equation to my team,

258
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,680
Speaker 1: to this business, and other than that, I'm going to

259
00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:33,800
Speaker 1: get my nose out of it and let the very

260
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,800
Speaker 1: competent people that I work with do what they're doing.

261
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,719
Speaker 4: And the book Essentialism was very helpful.

262
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,760
Speaker 3: With that, such a good book. How do you catch yourself?

263
00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:45,280
Speaker 2: Like when when you have kind of gone too far

264
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,080
Speaker 2: and in one direction? If you like, like, do you

265
00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 2: have something that you do regularly to kind of go

266
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 2: where am I at? Or is it just a feeling

267
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,319
Speaker 2: that you get?

268
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:59,000
Speaker 1: I tend it really is about a feeling that I get.

269
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,080
Speaker 1: So I know that if if I'm going into meetings

270
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,800
Speaker 1: and I'm not mentally prepared, I haven't thought through what

271
00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 1: it is that, you know, I need to be getting

272
00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,760
Speaker 1: out of them. If I feel rushed, then those are generally,

273
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,240
Speaker 1: you know, good signals to me that I need to

274
00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:21,480
Speaker 1: pull back and have a look and consider. And I

275
00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 1: think also, you know, being aware, I've become a lot

276
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,040
Speaker 1: more aware like things like this. You know, I'm actually

277
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,200
Speaker 1: I'm an introvert who presents as an extrovert. It's it's

278
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,720
Speaker 1: gonna be one of those things that I'm going, Okay,

279
00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:33,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna need to you know, pull back and be

280
00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 1: a little bit quieter for the rest of the day

281
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,240
Speaker 1: after this, that's okay, like getting to know myself better.

282
00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:41,280
Speaker 1: Whereas if it's a series of internal meetings. I can

283
00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:42,440
Speaker 1: do that all day and no problem.

284
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, how how do you function like? As I

285
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:49,880
Speaker 2: can completely relate to that, by the way, like an

286
00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,640
Speaker 2: introvert kind of trying to do extraverted things during the day.

287
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 3: How how does that work for you?

288
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 1: Like?

289
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:58,840
Speaker 3: How how I guess?

290
00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,640
Speaker 2: Like, particularly do you you structure a day even if

291
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:03,960
Speaker 2: you know that there is going to be, you know,

292
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,600
Speaker 2: something like this which is very public and can be

293
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 2: quite tiring for an introvert?

294
00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,200
Speaker 3: How have you thought about today? For example?

295
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,080
Speaker 1: I think that for me, what makes sense is taking

296
00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:19,360
Speaker 1: the pressure off and going, Okay, I'm going to go

297
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:20,320
Speaker 1: in here and I'm.

298
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:21,520
Speaker 4: Just going to try and be useful.

299
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,560
Speaker 1: So my only job is to try and say something

300
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,560
Speaker 1: in this hour or whoever long we've got that you go,

301
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,840
Speaker 1: oh that was helpful, great, that was nice to hear.

302
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:36,000
Speaker 1: Oh that helped me do my thing, whatever it might be. Otherwise,

303
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,560
Speaker 1: if I try and set myself up in my mind

304
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,560
Speaker 1: as trying to achieve these ten different purposes and trying

305
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:43,560
Speaker 1: to spook whatever it is that I'm doing at the moment,

306
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,960
Speaker 1: it's too stressful for me and it doesn't feel honest anyway.

307
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,720
Speaker 1: So I think there's that taking the pressure off myself.

308
00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,120
Speaker 1: But also I think just knowing, all right, if I

309
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,640
Speaker 1: need to, I can head home after this, that's okay.

310
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,000
Speaker 1: I can head home and work from home, and that's okay.

311
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons why you know, I implement

312
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:08,680
Speaker 1: Fleck's work wherever I can in my businesses, because I

313
00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:10,600
Speaker 1: know that sometimes I need to go home and you know,

314
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,600
Speaker 1: hibernate a little bit, and that's you know, that's okay.

315
00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:14,200
Speaker 4: We're human.

316
00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:15,720
Speaker 3: That's awesome.

317
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,480
Speaker 2: I like what you're doing in the morning in terms

318
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,160
Speaker 2: of just getting that five minutes to read. Can you

319
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 2: think of like an example of something that like you

320
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 2: have taken from your morning reading and how that played

321
00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:31,560
Speaker 2: out during the day, or how you kind of reflected

322
00:16:31,560 --> 00:16:33,400
Speaker 2: on that during the day.

323
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 1: Recently, in Tribe of Mentors, I cannot remember his name, unfortunately,

324
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:43,960
Speaker 1: but he is an incredible chef, and he was talking

325
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 1: about trying to divide up his day into all his time,

326
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 1: into a third for his work, a third for himself,

327
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:56,440
Speaker 1: and a third for his family. I don't manage to

328
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,240
Speaker 1: do that at all, so that was fascinating to me

329
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,320
Speaker 1: to look at. But he's one of the most successful

330
00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 1: chefs in the world and say he has managed to

331
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:05,879
Speaker 1: achieve that and he spends a third of his time

332
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,560
Speaker 1: for himself, what does that actually look like?

333
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 4: And consider?

334
00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:13,159
Speaker 1: You know, I've had people multiple times say to me, so,

335
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,320
Speaker 1: what do you your hobbies?

336
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:15,800
Speaker 4: And I said, I don't really have a hobby.

337
00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,520
Speaker 1: I you know, I work, and I love my work,

338
00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:21,439
Speaker 1: and I love the people that I work with. And

339
00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:23,679
Speaker 1: then I, you know, spend time with my kids and

340
00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 1: my husband, and those are the things that I do.

341
00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:30,439
Speaker 1: And I'm actually deeply boring. So even to consider I

342
00:17:30,520 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 1: am I like, totally honestly, to.

343
00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,200
Speaker 4: Even consider what would it look like if I spent

344
00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,920
Speaker 4: a third of my time for me? What would I do?

345
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 1: Is an interesting mental exercise. So I feel like I'm

346
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:50,160
Speaker 1: constantly kind of I think one of the things about

347
00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,160
Speaker 1: being an entrepreneur and having a startup.

348
00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 4: Is that you.

349
00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:59,919
Speaker 1: You kind of you develop very very quickly, and you know,

350
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,840
Speaker 1: self development is very very important because it's very challenging.

351
00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,560
Speaker 3: So what do you what else do.

352
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 2: You do to I guess constantly be learning and developing yourself.

353
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:17,160
Speaker 1: I think that I just I try and surround myself

354
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,680
Speaker 1: with people that I can learn from. Quite honestly, I

355
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,960
Speaker 1: find that, you know, if you. If you say to me,

356
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,760
Speaker 1: O case, I read a book about how to run

357
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 1: effective meetings, I'll go, oh my goodness.

358
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,640
Speaker 4: I just I can't internalize it.

359
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,600
Speaker 1: Whereas if I'm inspired by somebody who runs really effective meetings,

360
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:36,439
Speaker 1: Oh go great.

361
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:37,920
Speaker 4: I just want to model you.

362
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 1: I'm very good at modeling, not very good at kind

363
00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:46,800
Speaker 1: of pulling things from written material. So you know, I generally, like,

364
00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 1: you know, one of those things that I'll surround myself,

365
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,480
Speaker 1: including the people that work with me, with people that

366
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:53,800
Speaker 1: I feel like I can learn from you. I just

367
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 1: want to be around you. I want to watch you.

368
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 1: It's the same with my personal trainer. It's the same

369
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,760
Speaker 1: with like, I'm constantly intuitively looking for people that I

370
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 1: can learn from.

371
00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 4: And that's what that's what works for me.

372
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,679
Speaker 2: Is that something that you're looking for in recruitment? Because

373
00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:13,440
Speaker 2: Envado's got like three four hundred people six hundred now,

374
00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,920
Speaker 2: six hundred now, oh my goodness.

375
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:16,200
Speaker 3: Wow.

376
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:21,199
Speaker 2: Okay, and you're obviously growing to other businesses, and I

377
00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,959
Speaker 2: imagine you must have interviewed like hundreds thousands of people.

378
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 1: Yes, I'd say probably more to the hundreds. To the hundreds,

379
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:33,040
Speaker 1: I'm guessing, but yeah, you know, solid hundreds.

380
00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because I imagine like part of that is,

381
00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:38,080
Speaker 2: you know, can you learn from this person? But I'm curious,

382
00:19:38,119 --> 00:19:40,200
Speaker 2: do you like that in that time that is a

383
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 2: huge amount of experience. Do you have go to questions

384
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 2: things that you're looking for to identify if someone is

385
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,040
Speaker 2: going to be like someone that you can learn from

386
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 2: or someone that's going to be great in the business.

387
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,879
Speaker 1: Look generally speaking, you know, I actually try and source people,

388
00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,440
Speaker 1: find people who aren't looking for a job, people who

389
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 1: I see who are doing an incredible job at what

390
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:06,119
Speaker 1: they're doing, and often probably a bit you know, like

391
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,399
Speaker 1: just guns, and the thing I know about them is

392
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:12,120
Speaker 1: that they're going to do something incredible and that they're

393
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:14,720
Speaker 1: there's just they're just waiting for the space to do that.

394
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,800
Speaker 1: And then I slowly convince them, I slowly convince them

395
00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:22,439
Speaker 1: that they should leave what they're doing and they should

396
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,399
Speaker 1: come and work with me instead. And I'm honestly like

397
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: I do it. Sometimes I do it really quickly. So

398
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,359
Speaker 1: sometimes I'll just sit down and have lunch with you

399
00:20:31,400 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 1: and go, you know what, you should leave what you're

400
00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 1: doing and you should just come and work with me.

401
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:37,399
Speaker 1: And then if they say, and then if they're considering it,

402
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,200
Speaker 1: we have a serious conversation, and if they're.

403
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 4: Not, I'll go, yep, it'd be really good.

404
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:47,439
Speaker 1: And then I just start like gently, like introducing it

405
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 1: like as a joke, but not as a joke until

406
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:54,159
Speaker 1: it infects their minds. And then I've been I've got

407
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,480
Speaker 1: a pretty good success right with it. And I think

408
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: my goal is to get people who, you know, all

409
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,840
Speaker 1: they need is the.

410
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 4: Space and the permission to do amazing work.

411
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,280
Speaker 3: How do you find those people? Like, how do you know?

412
00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: Because this is where I struggle with the idea of

413
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 2: you know, essentially what we're talking about is poaching, ye

414
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,200
Speaker 2: call it what it is, so like because I've tried

415
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,639
Speaker 2: this for inventium and it's and I find it really

416
00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,679
Speaker 2: hard because often I'm looking at someone on paper or

417
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,639
Speaker 2: I'm you know, maybe like reading about them in I

418
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,720
Speaker 2: don't know, different sources, and it's just like that can

419
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 2: often be quite different from.

420
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 3: Who the person is.

421
00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 2: So how are you identifying them in the first place?

422
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 2: Who you're going to invest time in, you know, wining

423
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:45,919
Speaker 2: and dining.

424
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 4: I think people who.

425
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:52,160
Speaker 1: Are really just really passionate and obsessive about what they do,

426
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:56,199
Speaker 1: And oftentimes I think where I can add value is

427
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 1: because I've never been hugely confident.

428
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 4: I've always been unsure of my capacity.

429
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:05,600
Speaker 1: Oftentimes, I think that where I can add value is

430
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:10,919
Speaker 1: just giving them permission to proceed. So it's hard for

431
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,920
Speaker 1: me to explain because I think, honestly, it's one of

432
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 1: those things.

433
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 4: There's a lot of things I'm.

434
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 1: Not strong at, but I'm really good at reading people,

435
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: and I you know, and I'm good at figuring out

436
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 1: if a person is genuinely passionate, really cares ambitious, and

437
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,879
Speaker 1: there's a there's a sort of you know, there's a

438
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,919
Speaker 1: craftsmanship or a crafts personship. I've never known how to

439
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 1: gender neutralize that term, but there's a craftsmanship that comes

440
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,399
Speaker 1: through My dad always said to me, you know, you

441
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: can be the best in the bis of cleaning toilets.

442
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 1: It's about the it's about the process, and it's about

443
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,639
Speaker 1: the passion. It's about being proud of doing a job

444
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 1: well done. And there've been people that I've spied at,

445
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 1: you know, the cafe that I went to every day,

446
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,120
Speaker 1: and when you know what, and I'm pointing out him,

447
00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,240
Speaker 1: this dude's a gun and he's gonna work for me

448
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 1: one day, and I don't know how, but it is,

449
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 1: and then they do.

450
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 4: No.

451
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: I was successful with Eric, so you know, it's it's

452
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:12,760
Speaker 1: it's one of those things that I it's a it's

453
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,160
Speaker 1: a horrible answer, and I'm sorry, but you know, sometimes

454
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 1: you just you just know, you just know it about people.

455
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:19,640
Speaker 3: You just see the.

456
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: Way they are and you go, I know you're gonna

457
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,159
Speaker 1: you're gonna give whatever it is your best and and

458
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,520
Speaker 1: I want to work with you for that reason.

459
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,480
Speaker 2: I love that you're finding people in cafes well join

460
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: me w lately, but still like, I feel like there's

461
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: something really interesting in that because I think that the

462
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 2: average I think about the average recruiter and they're like, Okay,

463
00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:43,000
Speaker 2: I've got this job to fill, so I'm going to

464
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 2: look at people that are doing the exact same job

465
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 2: because they're the only person that are going to be

466
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:49,200
Speaker 2: good at the job because they've done the job before.

467
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 3: And I love how laterally.

468
00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 2: You're you're looking for people that I think could be great.

469
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 1: Passion will outweigh experience any day, and I think you

470
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,880
Speaker 1: know people who are incredibly passionate.

471
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 4: And they're smart.

472
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: I think because that's how I went into Invato. Literally

473
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 1: no idea, what I was doing, but I decided, oh,

474
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 1: we're just going to figure it out. Me and my

475
00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,959
Speaker 1: co founders were like, we will literally just figure this out.

476
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,359
Speaker 1: And a lot of time we reinvented the wheel, and

477
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,159
Speaker 1: maybe it wasn't the most efficient thing, but on the

478
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: other hand, that meant we did a lot of things

479
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: that were different and innovative.

480
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:28,120
Speaker 4: So in some ways, getting people who.

481
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: Aren't coming in and going, oh, well, I've done this

482
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,160
Speaker 1: a hundred times before the big boys are here. Now

483
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: let's you know, we'll do it this way that I've

484
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,760
Speaker 1: done it in the past, and instead going let's critically

485
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 1: look at what the problem is and figure out how

486
00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,800
Speaker 1: we can solve it intelligently is really powerful.

487
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 2: You mentioned the confidence is something that you know, it's

488
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:49,560
Speaker 2: kind of like been the thing for you. And I

489
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 2: know you've spoken about imposter syndrome and being a people

490
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:56,639
Speaker 2: pleaser and you've developed really cool strategies for overcoming that.

491
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 3: Can can you talk about that?

492
00:24:58,640 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 4: Yeah?

493
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,400
Speaker 1: So I think that I I spent a long time

494
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 1: feeling like I was trying to cover up, feeling like

495
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 1: I wasn't actually as intelligent, as capable, as good as

496
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: everyone maybe thought I was. You know, I was running

497
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: you know, a fifty person team at twenty seven, you know,

498
00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: and you know, deeply inexperienced in doing that and had

499
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,200
Speaker 1: to learn on the job a lot. And my coping

500
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,720
Speaker 1: mechanism was to go, I've well, no, it's okay, I've.

501
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 4: Got it all figured out, when in fact, I, you know,

502
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 4: I didn't.

503
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: And then we went through a period where we had

504
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:37,719
Speaker 1: a lot of very experienced people coming into the business

505
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 1: and I kind of thought, oh, well, I'll step aside again.

506
00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 1: The big kids are here now, and they said, don't worry,

507
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: we got this, we know how to do this, and

508
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 1: then realizing that actually, oftentimes unfortunately they didn't, and that

509
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 1: there was something different about the way I was doing it,

510
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 1: which was helpful and useful and.

511
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 4: You know better in some cases. So I kind of

512
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 4: had to figure out what it was that was going

513
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 4: on with me.

514
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,639
Speaker 1: I think, especially you know, the tech VC world in

515
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: the US, they talk a big game.

516
00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 4: I never did. What did that mean about me?

517
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 2: You know?

518
00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 1: It was it was one of those things where I

519
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: felt like I really needed to address it, and there

520
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 1: was a few things I did, a few steps that

521
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,000
Speaker 1: I went through. The first thing was is that I

522
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: went and looked around me to people who people that

523
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: I just felt like had.

524
00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 4: A really natural confidence around them.

525
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,840
Speaker 1: And honestly, those two people were best friend Natalie Tam

526
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 1: and my husband, like honestly just naturally confident, you know,

527
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: chilled out, you know, just I wanted to emulate the

528
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 1: two of them, not to say that they thought they

529
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:38,400
Speaker 1: could do everything.

530
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 4: I just I felt like they.

531
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,240
Speaker 1: I felt like they were very effective in that they

532
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: never worried about asking questions that might make them look stupid.

533
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,440
Speaker 1: They never worried about that, and I always worried about that.

534
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: So I needed to shift my thinking from wanting to

535
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 1: seem like the smartest person in.

536
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 4: The room to wanting to leave the room being the

537
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 4: smartest person in the room.

538
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: And it was It meant that I needed to ask

539
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,640
Speaker 1: questions constantly and I needed to not care whether it

540
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: made me look like an idiot. I think I also

541
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 1: needed to start saying yes to opportunities even when they

542
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: really scared me, because for a long time I kind

543
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: of tried to avoid failing really and I had to

544
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,720
Speaker 1: get really used to and comfortable failing all the time

545
00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,399
Speaker 1: and figuring out how to cope with that. And the

546
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: more I do it, the less it became about me,

547
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: and the more it became about the concept that I

548
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 1: was just trying to do really hard things, and that

549
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:39,959
Speaker 1: when you're try and do really hard things that someone's

550
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:43,919
Speaker 1: never done before, oftentimes you fail. And honestly, like I

551
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 1: can tell you, I'm probably about ten startups in all up,

552
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:50,879
Speaker 1: and there's a lot you haven't heard about it and

553
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 1: don't know about because they didn't succeed.

554
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 4: And close them down. I mean, all that didn't work,

555
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: all right, Better shut that down and keep on going.

556
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: And I think the final depth, the final piece of

557
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: the puzzle for me. And again it's making it sound

558
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,160
Speaker 1: like I've got this completely figured out, which I don't.

559
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 4: But the most effective thing I did overall was.

560
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 1: I got really clear about where I was weak and

561
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 1: where I was strong. So I think, you know when

562
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: you have imposter syndrome. And I'm basing this anecdotally on

563
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,080
Speaker 1: other people that I've spoken to, which I think is

564
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 1: a fairly human universal issue. The more and more time

565
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:30,679
Speaker 1: that goes on, I believe that one tends to the

566
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: whole concept of where you're weak is so scary you

567
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: never look that way. And I think I had this

568
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: idea in my mind that I needed to be incredibly strong.

569
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 4: In all areas.

570
00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 1: Again, I had to be this machine who was as

571
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 1: right brained as I was left brained, and you know,

572
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: and just had to know everything. And I think I

573
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: realized that that was impossible, and I was setting totally

574
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: unrealistic expectations on myself and again not treating.

575
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: Myself with a great deal of compassion. And I decided

576
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 4: that I needed to have a really.

577
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 1: Critical look, learn where I was really strong, but also

578
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: learn where I was really weak. Because I can adjust

579
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: for my weaknesses, I can hire. I hire out my weaknesses.

580
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: Now I find people who balance me out and that

581
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 1: can kind of adjust. I'm very left brained person, so

582
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 1: I need the left brains around me because they do.

583
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 4: Absolutely incredible work.

584
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: And I think most people, if their left brain, will

585
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 1: hire other left brains. I need guns of right brains.

586
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 1: I need operational guns around me. And I think once

587
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: I realized where I specifically could add value and where

588
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 1: I just needed to get out of the way and

589
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: find really strong people and trust them, that really helped me.

590
00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: It gave me a lot of space to be really

591
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 1: good at what I did and free me up from

592
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: constantly beating myself and beating myself up and being worried

593
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: about the areas where I was weak.

594
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 2: You mentioned self talk a couple of times, and like

595
00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,719
Speaker 2: even just before we were about to start but you know,

596
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 2: recording or doing what we're doing. You know, you mentioned

597
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: that you were feeling nervous. I hope it's okay for

598
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 2: me to say, like, what is your self talk before

599
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 2: things like this second and your approach I guess to

600
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 2: overcoming the nerves that you might be feeling, which I

601
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: must say shocks me because.

602
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:23,040
Speaker 3: It's like you got this, like you're awesome. Yeah, I

603
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 3: think that.

604
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 1: I genuinely just I wouldn't say that I get downright

605
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: nervous anymore. But I was saying to a couple of

606
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:31,320
Speaker 1: people that I know before I came in, I was like, oh,

607
00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: I find it. I'm finding it difficult to hold to

608
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,080
Speaker 1: conduct a conversation with you right now because my head

609
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 1: is so in like mentally preparing myself, and I think

610
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: that it.

611
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:42,959
Speaker 4: Is for me.

612
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: It's all about all right, Well, I genuinely want to

613
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: be really present in this conversation because I recognize that

614
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,160
Speaker 1: people are giving up.

615
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 4: An hour of their time and have woken up early

616
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:54,080
Speaker 4: in the morning.

617
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: And everything else to be here, and it's about me providing,

618
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 1: hopefully providing some value in.

619
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 4: This conversation and of being an interesting conversation. So I

620
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:08,080
Speaker 4: think I.

621
00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: Used to get exceptionally nervous, and a couple of things

622
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: really helped. Once I was on a panel and the

623
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: interviewer asked a very very complicated question and the woman

624
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: next to me and I was freaking out, like I

625
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: don't know how to answer this, Oh my goodness, And

626
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: the woman next to me said, oh, oh, I'm.

627
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:29,479
Speaker 4: Sorry, I don't know the answer to that question. Can

628
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: you come back to me? And I thought, that's a

629
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 4: great answer. That is a perfectly reasonable position to take.

630
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: And again that thing about you don't need to know everything,

631
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 1: you don't need to be the authority on everything, which

632
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: to me has been very very freeing and very helpful.

633
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: And the other thing was yet again, you know, I

634
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: was about to go on stage that I was talking

635
00:31:57,440 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: to you about this particular event.

636
00:31:58,920 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 4: I was telling this.

637
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:01,840
Speaker 1: Story because we're putting the mic on, and I said

638
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: that I went to an AFR event which was just

639
00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 1: the whole audience was journos, like three hundred of them,

640
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: and I was wearing this big flowy yellow dress, and

641
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: they said, we've got to put We've got to like

642
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: they do this thing where they like hook the mic

643
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: into your belts, but I didn't have.

644
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 4: A belt, so they were like, what are you going

645
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 4: to do with this?

646
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:20,200
Speaker 1: So I'm like standing at the back in kind of

647
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: the audio visual area, pulling up my dress and trying

648
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: to stuff it into my underpants. It was like just

649
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: just like not the most empowering way to start an event.

650
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: But anyway, going up, the journalist said to me, she said, Okay,

651
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about I'd really like to ask

652
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: you this question about what's this new ruling with listed companies.

653
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: It's new ruling with listed companies.

654
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 4: What does it mean? Invita is not a listed company.

655
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 4: It is not an eraror of interest for me at all,

656
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,520
Speaker 4: Like literally, not even slightly. And I could feel my heart.

657
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 1: Starting to you know, boom boom boom boom, imposter syndrome.

658
00:32:57,600 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 4: I'm gonna be found out. They're going to realize I

659
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 4: shouldn't be here.

660
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 1: This is going to be super embarrassing. And instead I

661
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: just turned around. I said to her, listen, you're very

662
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 1: welcome to ask me that question. But I honestly have

663
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: no idea. I have no idea what the answer is,

664
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: so I will literally just stay on stage. I'm so

665
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: sorry we're not listed. This isn't an area of interest

666
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: for me. You should ask someone else. And again they

667
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: sound like really little things, but really helpful in times.

668
00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: You know, in times like that where you're kind of

669
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: there's pressure and you're on stage and you kind of

670
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: you want to you want to perform and be useful.

671
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,239
Speaker 2: It is a goal I'm going to use that. I'm

672
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: actually on a panel in a couple of hours on

673
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: the other.

674
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,440
Speaker 3: Side of the city. I'm hoping that they asked me

675
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 3: a real joosy of a.

676
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 2: Question, So I got no idea.

677
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 3: That's great.

678
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 2: Now you're involved slash running three businesses, it's obviously less

679
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 2: involved in Invado.

680
00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: I want to know structurally what does that look like?

681
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: And also mentally compartmentalizing, how do you have three successful

682
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 2: businesses that you're involved in.

683
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,360
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where I was I do

684
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: try and divide up my days.

685
00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:07,240
Speaker 4: So I try and divide up my.

686
00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: Days into I'm either thinking about milkshake or I'm thinking

687
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:13,000
Speaker 1: about hay Tiger. The reality is is that both of

688
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: those things are growing very quickly, and oftentimes that's not

689
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:22,240
Speaker 1: the way it works out. I think that it works

690
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: better when I do, you know, the things that I'm

691
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: really good at, and I get out of the way

692
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: everywhere else, and I just trust the people that I'm

693
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 1: working with, and they're extremely competent, so it's really.

694
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 4: It's not a stretch for me to do it.

695
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: I think that, you know, the best quote I heard

696
00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 1: in relation to this is the Game.

697
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 4: Of Thrones documentary. I know I'm a total geek, but

698
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 4: it was really really, it was really interesting.

699
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 1: And the director of you know, a bunch of the

700
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 1: best Game of Thrones episodes, you know, the Red Wedding

701
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 1: and things like that, quite an eccentric, quiet guy, but

702
00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:01,440
Speaker 1: clearly an absolute genius.

703
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 4: And they asked him how it.

704
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: Was working on this gigantic project and he said, you know,

705
00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:08,880
Speaker 1: I am just the conductor of fine musicians. All I

706
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 1: do is I wave my hands around. And honestly, I thought,

707
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: this is the most apt description of what it is

708
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: that I actually do.

709
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 4: I think the.

710
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: Really hard part for me is focusing in and going

711
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,399
Speaker 1: all right, I've got to find the musicians, these really

712
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: incredible musicians. And when I was trying to find the

713
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: musicians for hay Tiger. I was only focused on hay

714
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: Tiger because you know, I had to find incredible people,

715
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:35,319
Speaker 1: and then I had.

716
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:37,920
Speaker 4: To work really closely with them so.

717
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: That you know, they kind of they understood what we

718
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,479
Speaker 1: were doing, and they were clear, and they knew where

719
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: you know, they knew where we were heading. And then

720
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: you know, honestly, it's time for me to honestly just

721
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: just be there to cultivate leadership. That's actually all that

722
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:55,080
Speaker 1: I'm doing now with these people.

723
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 4: They're very competent. Yeah.

724
00:35:57,239 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 2: Wow, And so you said that you've kind of got

725
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: this intention that the day will be around a certain business,

726
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:06,080
Speaker 2: but it's probably not in reality.

727
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 1: Like I go to different workplaces and then I try

728
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: and work mostly on the place that I'm at, but

729
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 1: it doesn't always work out that way.

730
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 2: You're in the tech world and have been in the

731
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 2: tech world for like most of your adult life, are

732
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,399
Speaker 2: you I want to know, like, what are the technologies

733
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: like apps, gadgets and so forth that have served you best?

734
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: What are the things that have made the biggest impact

735
00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 2: in your life.

736
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 4: I've gone through a lot of periods where I've found

737
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 4: things very very useful. So, you know, I did. I

738
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 4: had that app on my phone for a while which

739
00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 4: told me.

740
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 1: I was going to die five times, five times a day,

741
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: which we were talking about.

742
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,840
Speaker 4: Basically, all it says is five times a day. It

743
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,120
Speaker 4: just comes up and goes just a reminder you're going

744
00:36:51,160 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 4: to die soon, which sounds really intense. But on the

745
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:58,960
Speaker 4: other hand, if you're trying to get back to the

746
00:36:58,960 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 4: core of like.

747
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:03,759
Speaker 1: I want to be present in my life and I

748
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: want to make every moment count of this, it's really good.

749
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 4: Just suddenly go does all of this actually matter?

750
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:10,759
Speaker 1: No? Probably not.

751
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 4: I'm just going to enjoy it. So that was an

752
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,160
Speaker 4: interesting one. But again I think, you know, having that

753
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 4: come up five times. Also, once my eight year old

754
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:26,359
Speaker 4: could read that was the one. Yeah, you know, I did.

755
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:26,920
Speaker 4: I took that.

756
00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: I took that off, but it was very you know,

757
00:37:30,520 --> 00:37:35,480
Speaker 1: very useful for its time. Funnily enough, the Calm app

758
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: is the one app that I've had, you know, for months, years, years,

759
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,839
Speaker 1: like I think basically since it launched, and that's an

760
00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:47,800
Speaker 1: app that basically has a series of meditations and sleep

761
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: stories and music to help you focus or help you

762
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: do whatever it is you might do and out of

763
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: all the apps that I've ever had, I think that's

764
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,440
Speaker 1: the one that kind of I come back to most consistently.

765
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 3: Hmm, that's cool.

766
00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I must say I do like Cam and they

767
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 2: have been a sponsor of the.

768
00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 4: Show because you know why, I said that to me clear.

769
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 2: And I've read that your kind of go to to

770
00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:16,040
Speaker 2: do list manager is Bear.

771
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 3: Yes that's still the case.

772
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:21,000
Speaker 1: Yes, I still use Bear. I really live off Bear.

773
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 1: So I am a massive list writer. In fact, my

774
00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: parents have often said, because my parents are super cool,

775
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 1: super hippie, intuitive, arty people, and they're always like, we

776
00:38:32,160 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: don't know how we got this little girl who just

777
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,760
Speaker 1: loved writing lists, I had like glasses and a mono

778
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 1: brown I organized, and you know, so I do. I

779
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: find lists very very helpful and very soothing, and I

780
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,319
Speaker 1: think they helped me find purpose and systems in what

781
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:52,440
Speaker 1: it is that I'm doing and help me.

782
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,080
Speaker 4: You know, remember things. And I've lists for everything. I've

783
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 4: lists for you know, the funny things.

784
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,319
Speaker 1: My kids have said, I have lists for the place

785
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: so I want to travel to, lists for everyone on

786
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 1: one that I have, and you know, and you know,

787
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 1: they're all categorized and sorted and it's it's pretty intense

788
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: when you look at it, but but it's useful and

789
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: I don't have a diary, and it's but I there's

790
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: a book called The Art of the List, which is

791
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: a French book about a woman who lives in Japan

792
00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: and his French and rights lists and she just has

793
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:23,720
Speaker 1: a million different lists that you can write. It's very soothing.

794
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 1: What are the best meals I've ever had? One of

795
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: my favorite restaurants?

796
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 3: It's great.

797
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 4: I'll stop talking about lists now.

798
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,840
Speaker 3: I feel I love lists.

799
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 2: I want to know what are the categories of list

800
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: do you have? And also you like do you have

801
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 2: shared lists as well?

802
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:40,160
Speaker 4: I don't have shared lists.

803
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: Funnily enough, might be might be a great thing to do,

804
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: especially with Collis. I can imagine with my husband. I

805
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: think that would be really really good. My categories of lists, Yeah,

806
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: I have work to do. I have work goals, so you.

807
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 4: Know that like the macro and the micro effectively, I

808
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,840
Speaker 4: have kids, I have home life, I have fun.

809
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 3: I have travel a fun list.

810
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 4: What's on the funds a category which is fun?

811
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: So if it's like, here are the I love cooking,

812
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:14,680
Speaker 1: here are the things that I want to bake?

813
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 4: That's in fun. That's categorized by fun and home and kids.

814
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 4: So I feel like this isn't Actually.

815
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 2: I love getting the insight into the mine shirts.

816
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 3: I think that's great.

817
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:34,520
Speaker 1: I do.

818
00:40:34,719 --> 00:40:36,760
Speaker 2: I do want to ask you about something that happened

819
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,160
Speaker 2: in late twenty sixteen where you were kind of struck

820
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,360
Speaker 2: with an eye ulcer and had the risk of going blind,

821
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:47,279
Speaker 2: and I want to know if you can sort of

822
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 2: just share what happened during that time and what did

823
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: you change about how you kind of rang your life.

824
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 3: I guess after that that was.

825
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,720
Speaker 4: A really interesting time.

826
00:41:00,160 --> 00:41:04,320
Speaker 1: So I just in twenty fifteen I won the Telstra

827
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,399
Speaker 1: Businessman of the Year award, and up till then, i'd

828
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: been completely under the radar, hadn't done any public speaking,

829
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:14,480
Speaker 1: had just been purely focused on Invarto. And when that happened,

830
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,879
Speaker 1: it just went voomph and I started doing a huge

831
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: amount of public speaking. And you know, we're on a

832
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: bit of a hiring kick, so it was a really

833
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: useful thing to do to start talking about in Varto

834
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:30,719
Speaker 1: publicly within Australia, because Invarto's only four percent Australian market,

835
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:32,880
Speaker 1: so there's never been any reason to do local pr

836
00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:36,360
Speaker 1: before it's all US and Europe. But from an employee

837
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,120
Speaker 1: brand point of view, it suddenly made sense. So did

838
00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: a huge amount of that stuff. Found it very It

839
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 1: was a period of intense growth. I had to kind of,

840
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: you know, look at a bunch of things and try

841
00:41:46,960 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: and get comfortable being uncomfortable in a way that I

842
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:55,280
Speaker 1: hadn't before. And interestingly enough, the last night, so basically

843
00:41:55,360 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 1: you do it for a full year, and then the

844
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:01,239
Speaker 1: last night before the new awards take place, you do

845
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: a panel where you speak to the finalists of the

846
00:42:04,120 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: following year. And that morning, you know, put my contact

847
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: lenses in as usual, and I'd come during the day

848
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: and like, my eye kind of hurts, but I'm too busy.

849
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: I've been running hard, like I'd been running really really

850
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:20,359
Speaker 1: hard and arguably not really resting enough and taking good

851
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 1: enough care of myself. And by the evening I got

852
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: off the panel and I was like, my eye is

853
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:27,759
Speaker 1: killing me.

854
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 4: I made my apologies.

855
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 1: I went home, you know, wash my eye, I did

856
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 1: all that stuff, and I said to my husband, I'm

857
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:33,359
Speaker 1: gonna go to bed.

858
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 4: I just my eye is too painful.

859
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: And he said, all right, you know, and I thought

860
00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 1: we'd be fine in the morning, and I woke up

861
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 1: in the morning and I thought, whoa, this hurts. And

862
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 1: I turned around and looked at my husband and he said, oh, okay,

863
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to take you to hospital now because.

864
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 4: Your eyes just messed up. And I had an.

865
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:53,239
Speaker 1: Aggressive bacterial ulsa on my corneer and so effectively it

866
00:42:53,280 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: looked like kind of a milky halo was just taking

867
00:42:57,440 --> 00:42:59,040
Speaker 1: over my eye very very quickly.

868
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 4: So we went to the hospital and the and the

869
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,680
Speaker 4: eye specialist said, look, this looks very aggressive. You might

870
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 4: lose your eye.

871
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 1: And so it was one of those oh crap, what

872
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 1: does this mean kind of moments you're thinking, can I

873
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:12,799
Speaker 1: rock an eyepatch?

874
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:15,880
Speaker 4: Like you know, like really you know? And there's a

875
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 4: story I always.

876
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: Tell, but it's just I just can't not tell it

877
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 1: because he's just such a pure human. Collis was like,

878
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: don't worry, I'm sitting at hospital. He's like, I'm gonna

879
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:26,560
Speaker 1: go get us coffees. I'll be back in five minutes.

880
00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: And he came back five minutes later, and he said, honey,

881
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:30,840
Speaker 1: it's going to be okay. I just went all the

882
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: way to the cafe ordered and came back with one

883
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: eye closed, and I was fine, and it was just

884
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: one of those moments I think I'll remember on my

885
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 1: deathbed and just what a pure, beautiful human.

886
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:44,120
Speaker 4: That man is.

887
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: So but I basically the way that they treated it

888
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: was I had to have like antibiotic eye drops in

889
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: my eye every hour, twenty four hours a day for

890
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 1: quite some time, like you know, more than a week.

891
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: So I became wu sleep deprived, like really bizarrely. You know,

892
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,080
Speaker 1: if you're not getting any rem sleep and you're only

893
00:44:09,120 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: sleeping forty five minutes at a time, that's like, you know,

894
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:13,480
Speaker 1: it's like kind of what they do torture people. As

895
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:16,240
Speaker 1: far as I understand it, not that I'm deeply experienced

896
00:44:16,239 --> 00:44:17,000
Speaker 1: in that area.

897
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 4: But I might have been told. So, you know, severely

898
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 4: sleep deprived.

899
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,560
Speaker 1: And imagine you're going from you know, working really long hours,

900
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: pushing yourself really hard, running really hard.

901
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,719
Speaker 4: You have two little kids, so two kids under five, and.

902
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:34,200
Speaker 1: Then suddenly you're doing nothing, and on top of that,

903
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,320
Speaker 1: they said, you know, this is this sort of ulcer

904
00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: bizarly is more painful and doesn't heal as quickly if

905
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 1: you're in light, so be in the dark all the time.

906
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 1: So I was just in a dark room first I

907
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 1: was in the hospital, then I was in a dark room,

908
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,759
Speaker 1: and looking back, it was one of the best things

909
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,359
Speaker 1: that could have happened, because I think I during that

910
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 1: period it was a really like it's like taking a

911
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,240
Speaker 1: total hiatus from your life and this really intense enforced

912
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 1: period of so, you know, what is it that I'm

913
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 1: doing in my life?

914
00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 4: Am I enjoying this? Is it the best use of

915
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 4: my time?

916
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 1: Knowing that life is potentially short thanks to the eye

917
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: and the app?

918
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:14,080
Speaker 4: Is this the best way for me to be using

919
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:15,640
Speaker 4: my time? And I'd already.

920
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 1: Established, like, you know, life's you know, like in my mind,

921
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,319
Speaker 1: life's probably about two things, having really big experiences, so

922
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:26,279
Speaker 1: experiencing it, really living it, and hopefully in your own

923
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: little way, doing something that's kind of useful and helpful

924
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: to the world, leaving it in a tiny weeny bit

925
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: of a better place than it was when you arrived.

926
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:35,200
Speaker 1: I think, when it boils down to it, that's like

927
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: my life philosophy, I guess, and I think I realized, Okay,

928
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: well where in Varto is now? International tax law, divesity

929
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: inclusion programs. You know, whilst I'm really grateful that I

930
00:45:50,680 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 1: did those things, wasn't where my passion lay anymore in

931
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: terms of the day to day, like what I did

932
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,880
Speaker 1: with my days. I still love Invarna, I'm still passionate

933
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: about it. I'm still proud to be a part of it,

934
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 1: but in terms of my day to day, it just

935
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: didn't resonate with me. And I think I'd always had

936
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: in my mind, I want to do a social enterprise next.

937
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: And I met Daniel and Justine Flynn, who found it

938
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: thank You Group, And when I met them, I was like,

939
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:17,920
Speaker 1: I want to be like you when I grow up,

940
00:46:17,920 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 1: and they're like seven years younger than me, and I

941
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: was like, I better kind of, you know, get on

942
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: with this. And I came out the other side of

943
00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:27,880
Speaker 1: that of that period and I thought, all right, I

944
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: don't even know exactly what it is, but I know

945
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,680
Speaker 1: I want to start a new startup. I know that

946
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 1: I want it to be a social enterprise, because that

947
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:38,960
Speaker 1: is you know, Withinvarta, one of the things that always

948
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: resonated with me was how effective it can be at

949
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,839
Speaker 1: being helpful to people, serving its community. And I think

950
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: that business is very focused on oftentimes, you know, serving

951
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,399
Speaker 1: its shareholders only, and I believe that's an outmoded kind

952
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: of attitude and philosophy to business, which leads to a

953
00:46:58,520 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: lot of you.

954
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,080
Speaker 4: Know, the justices in the world.

955
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: So a social enterprise seem like the logical conclusion of

956
00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: that way of thinking. And I decided I'm just gonna

957
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna look for an idea and ideally I'd like

958
00:47:09,080 --> 00:47:10,680
Speaker 1: it to be something I can hold in my hands,

959
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:11,720
Speaker 1: was my other metric.

960
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 2: So how do you build like this, this rest and

961
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 2: reflective kind of mode into your life since twenty sixteen?

962
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: Is that something that you've deliberately done so you don't

963
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: end up like back in hospital.

964
00:47:25,560 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: I I try to, and I'm not always entirely successful

965
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:31,920
Speaker 1: to be told.

966
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm not having ended up back in hospital,

967
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 4: but I'm.

968
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: Not entirely successful at balancing. Balancing is a constant struggle

969
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: to me. So what I find that I tend to

970
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: do is I push really hard. I try and do everything,

971
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 1: and then I have a period where I.

972
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 4: Go, oh, no, need to pull back.

973
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: I need to pull back a bit, and then I

974
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,560
Speaker 1: readjust So it's almost like I work in I work

975
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:59,160
Speaker 1: in cycles. I have these cycles where I'm have this

976
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,080
Speaker 1: tremendous out and I do a huge amount of things,

977
00:48:02,120 --> 00:48:04,880
Speaker 1: and I set things up and then I need to

978
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,120
Speaker 1: pull back and I need to kind of recharge. And

979
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 1: that's the thing which makes sense to me. I find

980
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: it very difficult to find balance on a day to

981
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:17,439
Speaker 1: day level, although I do.

982
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 4: Try, I'm just not entirely successful with it.

983
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 2: What does that look like when you pull back? Like

984
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 2: practically speaking.

985
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,920
Speaker 1: So when I pull back, I try to work like

986
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 1: work less, which.

987
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:32,239
Speaker 4: Is you know, hard for me. I try and be

988
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,080
Speaker 4: less involved in my you.

989
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,279
Speaker 1: Know, in my email, in my day to day and

990
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: generally speaking, it coincides with a time when you know,

991
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:42,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh no, the team actually has this, and

992
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 1: an actual fact.

993
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 4: It serves them best for me to get out of

994
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:45,480
Speaker 4: the way as well.

995
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 1: Because sometimes I can, because I'm trying to do so

996
00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:49,720
Speaker 1: many things, I can be like a traffic block.

997
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 4: So it oftentimes serves everybody really well. If I suddenly

998
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 4: go okay, I'm not coping very well at this.

999
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:01,160
Speaker 1: Point, I can see that I've gone too far into

1000
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,759
Speaker 1: intense stress not.

1001
00:49:02,760 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 4: Being present mode.

1002
00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:06,799
Speaker 1: I'm going to really try and pull this back and

1003
00:49:06,920 --> 00:49:12,520
Speaker 1: just be still. And it's happened enough times now that

1004
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: I realized I need to have faith in the process,

1005
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:18,280
Speaker 1: and I think reading things like you know about artists

1006
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:21,719
Speaker 1: and musicians and composers where they have these periods of

1007
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 1: great creativity and great output and you know, incredible fruitfulness

1008
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: and then these periods where everything's.

1009
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 4: Almost like laying fallow.

1010
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:33,440
Speaker 1: That's really helpful to me to consider it in that way,

1011
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: because I do find it quite stressful when I have

1012
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 1: these periods where I need to pull it back.

1013
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 3: Now I've got two final questions for you.

1014
00:49:38,239 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 2: Firstly, the Hunger Project, which which I can share that

1015
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:46,080
Speaker 2: we've raised one hundred.

1016
00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:50,280
Speaker 3: And thirty six dollars, so thank you everyone for your donations.

1017
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 3: And it's like, can you.

1018
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: Tell me a bit about what the Hunger Project is

1019
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,839
Speaker 2: and why that's your charity of choice?

1020
00:49:57,480 --> 00:50:01,920
Speaker 1: T HP, the Hunger Project Garner is Hate Tiger's child partner.

1021
00:50:02,480 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 4: So Hate Tiger is a social enterprise.

1022
00:50:05,480 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: It exists to support cocoa farming communities in Ghana, and

1023
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: beyond that, it kind of it's honestly a bit of

1024
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: an experiment in terms of figuring out how kind of

1025
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 1: what a business.

1026
00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 4: Can be if it exists to serve.

1027
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: The communities that it interacts with. So this concept that

1028
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 1: all parties rise in the transaction. I find to be

1029
00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 1: a really interesting concept. You know, people don't like talking

1030
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 1: about capitalism, but the best possible version of capitalism where

1031
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: everyone wins. I'm not saying we're there, it's like going

1032
00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: to be like a ten year project, but I find

1033
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,800
Speaker 1: that concept a really interesting one.

1034
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,319
Speaker 4: So a big.

1035
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:49,839
Speaker 1: Problem in the coco industry is that generally farmers earns

1036
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:52,880
Speaker 1: seventy three cents per day, which is well below the

1037
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:57,319
Speaker 1: poverty line, and cocoa farmers in West Africa, and there's

1038
00:50:57,320 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: two point two million children in child labor on cocoa

1039
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:01,800
Speaker 1: plantations in West Africa.

1040
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:04,520
Speaker 4: Those are both things that felt to me like.

1041
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: Really really broken components of an industry that you know,

1042
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: is responsible for something that I absolutely love and I

1043
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: know that I and many people get a great deal

1044
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:17,360
Speaker 1: of pleasure out of So when it came time to

1045
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:21,319
Speaker 1: look for a charitable partner to donate funds from each

1046
00:51:21,440 --> 00:51:26,919
Speaker 1: bar too, I was really looking for an organization that

1047
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 1: would holistically support these communities, these coco farming communities, because

1048
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 1: all the kind of all the research on this issue

1049
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,239
Speaker 1: seems to be that it's about it's a greater.

1050
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 4: Issue than paying more for coco.

1051
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:43,240
Speaker 1: So we source all our coco ethically, but that that

1052
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,719
Speaker 1: alone is really not going to shift the doll because

1053
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,479
Speaker 1: there are major systemic issues. So what I loved about

1054
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 1: THHP is that it's really holistic. It's focused on women,

1055
00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:56,200
Speaker 1: which I think study after study now indicate is the

1056
00:51:56,200 --> 00:51:59,160
Speaker 1: best way if you're going to fund charitable projects, funding women.

1057
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:00,879
Speaker 4: Is a really really effect give way to go about

1058
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 4: doing it.

1059
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: They tend to just put more money back into their

1060
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 1: local communities than men do for whatever reason. And I

1061
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,319
Speaker 1: think what's interesting about THHP is that, you know, it

1062
00:52:11,440 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: covers everything from microfinance loans for women farmers, to farming

1063
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: practices to First one thousand Days of life programs to

1064
00:52:23,719 --> 00:52:27,799
Speaker 1: save birth to HIV AIDS education. It's the more I

1065
00:52:27,880 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 1: dive into it, it's this multi step, holistic program based

1066
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 1: around education. That is that it kind of has a

1067
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 1: virality to it, which I find really really interesting. And

1068
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:41,960
Speaker 1: the whole idea is the community reaches self reliance on

1069
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,480
Speaker 1: their own terms within ten years.

1070
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:44,520
Speaker 3: That's awesome.

1071
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:47,399
Speaker 2: And my final question, if people want to discover more

1072
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,120
Speaker 2: about you and what you're doing or your businesses, where

1073
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:50,879
Speaker 2: should they go?

1074
00:52:52,080 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 4: So I guess you could go to Instagram.

1075
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 1: I'm at Science CYA NC tied tawd.

1076
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:01,279
Speaker 4: We've got a to gord a name, so spelling it

1077
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:02,040
Speaker 4: is necessary.

1078
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:06,920
Speaker 1: And or you know, you know, hey, Target dot com

1079
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 1: dot a you has you know a lot of information

1080
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:10,799
Speaker 1: about what we do in the chocolate that.

1081
00:53:10,719 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 4: We make and why we do it.

1082
00:53:13,239 --> 00:53:16,359
Speaker 1: And then there's Milkshake, which is the new the new

1083
00:53:16,360 --> 00:53:19,120
Speaker 1: app we launched, which is basically all about being able

1084
00:53:19,160 --> 00:53:21,120
Speaker 1: to set up a website on your phone within ten

1085
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: minutes via Instagram, which is very pretty and very useful.

1086
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:26,640
Speaker 4: I think to a lot.

1087
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,640
Speaker 1: Of entrepreneurs who you know, run their businesses from their phone,

1088
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: So any of those.

1089
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,640
Speaker 2: Things awesome, fantastic, Si, It's been an absolute pleasure.

1090
00:53:34,719 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, never enjoyving thinking Sky. That is

1091
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:45,720
Speaker 3: it for today's show.

1092
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:49,160
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed my chat with Si, and I've

1093
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,080
Speaker 2: got some practical strategies that you might think about applying

1094
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 2: in your own life. I know that I took a

1095
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: bunch of really useful things from my chat with Si,

1096
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,800
Speaker 2: and despite having known her for years, I learned a

1097
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 2: whole bunch of new stuff about it, which was awesome.

1098
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:05,720
Speaker 2: So if you know someone who you think could benefit

1099
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:09,360
Speaker 2: from this show or find this interview interesting, why not

1100
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,560
Speaker 2: share the episode with them? And if you're enjoying how

1101
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 2: I work, I would love it if you could take

1102
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:17,640
Speaker 2: five seconds out of your day to write a review.

1103
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 2: It's absolutely lovely getting feedback from listeners and it also

1104
00:54:20,680 --> 00:54:23,440
Speaker 2: helps other people find the show. So on that note,

1105
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 2: thank you for listening and I'll see you next time.