1
00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,600
Speaker 1: Now Thursday does mark five years since the Royal Commission

2
00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,800
Speaker 1: into Youth Detention and Child Protection handed down its final report.

3
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,240
Speaker 1: The government insists that the Northern Territory youth justice sector

4
00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: is a very different space, but there is criticism that

5
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,840
Speaker 1: labor hasn't acted as much change or in acted I

6
00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:19,600
Speaker 1: should say as much change as it should have and

7
00:00:19,680 --> 00:00:22,800
Speaker 1: on four corners. Overnight we know that WA's youth justice

8
00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:25,360
Speaker 1: system was in the spotlight, but don Dale once again

9
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,560
Speaker 1: under scrutiny, with some claiming not enough's being done to

10
00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,120
Speaker 1: reform the system. Kate Worden defended the system, but it

11
00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:35,159
Speaker 1: was revealed that more than four hundred complaints have been

12
00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,760
Speaker 1: made in the last year and many of the recommendations

13
00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,640
Speaker 1: supposedly implemented have been considered and closed. Now joining me

14
00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,800
Speaker 1: in the studio is the opposition leader Lea fanocchiiro goodbrning

15
00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:46,559
Speaker 1: to you, Leah.

16
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:47,959
Speaker 2: Good morning Katie and to your listeners.

17
00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,200
Speaker 1: Now, Leah, do you think that it is good enough

18
00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,040
Speaker 1: that kids are still in don Dale at the moment? Look?

19
00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,800
Speaker 3: I think ultimately, if you do the crime, you do

20
00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:59,520
Speaker 3: the time. Sadly, even despite the weakening of laws and

21
00:00:59,560 --> 00:01:02,400
Speaker 3: despite all of the reform and money that Labor government

22
00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,559
Speaker 3: has spent, and the disempowerment of police and the fact

23
00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,240
Speaker 3: that you know in incarceration is a last resort. We

24
00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:11,680
Speaker 3: still have higher numbers in use detention today than we

25
00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:14,280
Speaker 3: did under a CLP government. And I think what we've

26
00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,440
Speaker 3: got is high child protection notifications today than we did

27
00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:20,520
Speaker 3: under the CLP. And it just shows that despite all

28
00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:24,560
Speaker 3: of Labour's talk about generational change and therapeutic support and

29
00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,759
Speaker 3: hundreds of millions of dollars going down into this endeavor,

30
00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 3: nothing is better.

31
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:31,559
Speaker 2: Crime isn't better.

32
00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 3: There are more use than ever in prison before, and

33
00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:36,200
Speaker 3: yet there are still more criminals out on the street

34
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 3: than we've ever had. So I think this sums it

35
00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,800
Speaker 3: up as a total catastrophic failure.

36
00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:42,039
Speaker 2: I mean, you've said on.

37
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,240
Speaker 1: The show that if the CLP comes into power, you'll

38
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 1: actually reverse some of those changes which have been made

39
00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:50,040
Speaker 1: since the Royal Commission was called. What do you say

40
00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:52,480
Speaker 1: to people that think that that's the wrong thing to do.

41
00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 1: I mean they're saying that these therapeutic measures and closing

42
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,080
Speaker 1: of don Dale is the right way to go, but

43
00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,640
Speaker 1: you're saying that you want corrections to take back over

44
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:02,920
Speaker 1: any youth justice facility.

45
00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,360
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, and we don't shy away from that.

46
00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:07,280
Speaker 3: And to the people who want to close dun Dale,

47
00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,560
Speaker 3: I want to know where are these kids going to go?

48
00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:10,920
Speaker 2: Are they going to your house?

49
00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,679
Speaker 3: Because at the end of the day, when you've got

50
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,440
Speaker 3: severe offending, that needs to be dealt with a consequence,

51
00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:19,560
Speaker 3: and you need to ensure the community is safe by

52
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,400
Speaker 3: not having those high risk offenders out in the community.

53
00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:26,160
Speaker 3: So I'd love to hear from you where are these

54
00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:27,880
Speaker 3: kids going to go if it's not present?

55
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,919
Speaker 1: Well, Look, I do think that that is a question

56
00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 1: that probably a lot of people listening are wondering as well,

57
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:36,240
Speaker 1: because we hear from so many victims of crime on

58
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 1: this show. So many people who are broken into, have

59
00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,160
Speaker 1: their cars stolen, are assaulted. We speak so often about

60
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,280
Speaker 1: different incidents that are happening around the place, and I

61
00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,000
Speaker 1: do think that that is very often something that's missed

62
00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,200
Speaker 1: in the national coverage is the absolute scourge that we

63
00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:56,120
Speaker 1: have in the territory around youth crime. In saying all

64
00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:58,560
Speaker 1: of that, does it make it okay that then there's

65
00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,200
Speaker 1: been four hundred complains it's made in the last year

66
00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 1: according to this report overnight out of don.

67
00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,880
Speaker 3: Dale, No, and look, that's a completely separate issue. But

68
00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,600
Speaker 3: what we know is that the system is broken and

69
00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 3: people are leaving the territory because of it. These young

70
00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:15,160
Speaker 3: people are turning to a life of crime younger and

71
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,960
Speaker 3: younger because the government is not dealing with parental responsibility.

72
00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,640
Speaker 3: They're not dealing with the root causes and the trauma

73
00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,359
Speaker 3: and whatever else might be happening at a young age

74
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,240
Speaker 3: for a lot of these kids. They're hoping that, you know,

75
00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:31,160
Speaker 3: these therapeutic measures will work, but ultimately it's all smoke

76
00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,000
Speaker 3: and mirrors, Katie. You know, last year we got the data.

77
00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 3: One of the government's most heralded diversion programs is called

78
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,200
Speaker 3: Youth Conferencing. Right where a youth breaks the law, they

79
00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,720
Speaker 3: then sit down face to face with their victim and

80
00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:47,160
Speaker 3: have a conference about it. Eleven happened last year, eleven

81
00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,080
Speaker 3: at a cost of eleven thousand dollars each. Now I

82
00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,120
Speaker 3: don't know about you, Katie, but I know there was

83
00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 3: a lot more than eleven crimes done by youth last year.

84
00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,680
Speaker 3: So that's an incredibly poor take up rate because of

85
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:01,640
Speaker 3: course it's not enforced, and.

86
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:02,680
Speaker 2: It should be happening.

87
00:04:02,720 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 1: What do you reckon should be happening with these youths

88
00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:07,720
Speaker 1: that are breaking the law, that are doing the wrong thing.

89
00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,680
Speaker 1: If don Dale's not quite right, and if some of

90
00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:14,080
Speaker 1: those different programs aren't working, like victim conferencing, what should

91
00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:14,560
Speaker 1: be happening.

92
00:04:14,680 --> 00:04:16,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we ultimately need to be dealing with the

93
00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:18,760
Speaker 3: root cause of the problem in the first place, which

94
00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,520
Speaker 3: is why we would take territory families, take youth justice

95
00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,599
Speaker 3: out of territory family so that they can deal with

96
00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,200
Speaker 3: care and protection of children. Once you have a youth

97
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:29,919
Speaker 3: who is offending, we want to develop a sentence to

98
00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:33,680
Speaker 3: a skill training detention facility. So it's basically like a

99
00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,800
Speaker 3: trade training center, but obviously you serve it during your

100
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:39,680
Speaker 3: period your whatever sentence the court has given you, and

101
00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:40,720
Speaker 3: you are then linked up.

102
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,200
Speaker 2: With employment in that area.

103
00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,080
Speaker 3: And hopefully once you've completed your term, you've got some

104
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:47,560
Speaker 3: life skills, you've got some self worth, you can you've

105
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,880
Speaker 3: shown yourself that you can add value to the community,

106
00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:52,840
Speaker 3: change your life and move into the workforce and go

107
00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,760
Speaker 3: on to be a functioning member of our community. You know,

108
00:04:56,040 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 3: we need to be looking at other types of camps

109
00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960
Speaker 3: where people are getting a lot more discipline and support

110
00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,080
Speaker 3: to work through their trauma, but also then build a

111
00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,640
Speaker 3: new pathway going forward. But ultimately, for eleven us to

112
00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,960
Speaker 3: be sitting around having a victim offender conference at that

113
00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:16,279
Speaker 3: expense to the taxpayer shows me that these diversion programs

114
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:16,839
Speaker 3: aren't working.

115
00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,640
Speaker 1: Leah, we know that the recommendations that were made throughout

116
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:22,200
Speaker 1: the Royal Commission are evidence based.

117
00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:23,920
Speaker 2: Wouldn't you just stay.

118
00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,280
Speaker 1: On track with those recommendations.

119
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,920
Speaker 2: Well, I think the evidence shows that crime is worse.

120
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:29,920
Speaker 3: There are more youth in prison than ever before, there

121
00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 3: are more child notific protection notifications than ever before. People

122
00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,040
Speaker 3: in the community are more angry than they've ever been before.

123
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 3: And whose life is better I don't know. Clearly not

124
00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,160
Speaker 3: the criminals in don Dale because there's four hundred complaints. Clearly,

125
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:46,200
Speaker 3: not the people on the street who want their car

126
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,200
Speaker 3: to be left in their driveway overnight so they can

127
00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:49,880
Speaker 3: wake up and go to work in the morning.

128
00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 2: So I challenged the government.

129
00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:55,240
Speaker 3: You know you've so called implemented these recommendations.

130
00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,240
Speaker 2: Where is the improvement in the entire system?

131
00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:01,160
Speaker 3: Start to finish, what child's life is better, what victim's

132
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:03,239
Speaker 3: life is better, what territory in's life is better?

133
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 1: They say that they've implemented more than one hundred and

134
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,360
Speaker 1: seventy of those recommendations. One of those is the use

135
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 1: of body worn cameras. As it turns out, the government

136
00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: hasn't implemented that change, but it's been closed off. Do

137
00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,120
Speaker 1: you think that's appropriate and do you think that you

138
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,520
Speaker 1: know that those that work out there at don Dale

139
00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:23,440
Speaker 1: should be wearing body worn cameras well?

140
00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,440
Speaker 3: Maybe they should be, Katie, to protect themselves, because of course,

141
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:29,760
Speaker 3: no one supports mistreatment in any way, let alone in incarceration.

142
00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,680
Speaker 3: But ultimately, and I don't have the starts on me unfortunately,

143
00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:35,279
Speaker 3: but we know that the rates of abuse of the

144
00:06:35,279 --> 00:06:39,680
Speaker 3: youth justice officers in detention facilities is extremely high. And

145
00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:42,440
Speaker 3: I speak to them at my barbecues and other things

146
00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:44,200
Speaker 3: when I'm out and about Katie, and I can tell

147
00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:48,120
Speaker 3: you youth justice officers go to work afraid and ultimately

148
00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,000
Speaker 3: they deserve protection as well. Lea.

149
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:51,840
Speaker 1: We are going to have to move along because there

150
00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:55,080
Speaker 1: is so much happening. Next week Parliament resumes for the

151
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:58,600
Speaker 1: last time this year, two weeks of parliamentary sittings, and

152
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,560
Speaker 1: there is so much of the agenda. We've spoken a

153
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,599
Speaker 1: lot over the last couple of weeks about the changes

154
00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,760
Speaker 1: to the age of Criminal responsibility. But I want to

155
00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,680
Speaker 1: ask some more questions this morning about these changes to

156
00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,280
Speaker 1: the Anti Discrimination Act. We spoke to Jered Melee yesterday

157
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,680
Speaker 1: he joined us on the show Your Deputy, and he

158
00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,720
Speaker 1: claimed that the government's made some significant changes since that

159
00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:21,800
Speaker 1: consultation took place, which means that it is going to

160
00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,600
Speaker 1: impact each and every one of us. Now he reconsidered

161
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 1: what the key exemption has been edited, one of them

162
00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,760
Speaker 1: has been edited in the draft and it's deleted all

163
00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,720
Speaker 1: together in the actual bill. What exactly is that change

164
00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:37,800
Speaker 1: and how is it going to impact people on an

165
00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:38,640
Speaker 1: everyday basis.

166
00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:39,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely So.

167
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 3: There's a couple of issues that we've been out in

168
00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,240
Speaker 3: the community consulting on that we're really concerned about. One

169
00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 3: is around the fact that currently right around the country,

170
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:51,800
Speaker 3: religious schools are allowed to prioritize employment of staff of

171
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,480
Speaker 3: their religion. So if you're the Greek school here in Darwin,

172
00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 3: you prioritize hiring Greek teachers, if you're the Islamic school,

173
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,880
Speaker 3: if you're an Anglican school, a Catholic school, you name it,

174
00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,520
Speaker 3: there is allowability for you to be able to employ

175
00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:07,679
Speaker 3: people of your particular faith, whatever that might be. Now,

176
00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,160
Speaker 3: in the draft that was circulated by the government a

177
00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,680
Speaker 3: few months ago, that clause was being amended, but in

178
00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,320
Speaker 3: the bill that's come out, they're just deleting it all together.

179
00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 3: And so faith based schools have come out very concerned

180
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,280
Speaker 3: because they feel like it will take the faith out

181
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:23,760
Speaker 3: of faith based schools.

182
00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:25,640
Speaker 2: And that they will no longer be able to deliver.

183
00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:31,080
Speaker 3: A faith based education because that ability to prioritize employment

184
00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:32,880
Speaker 3: of their staff will no longer be there. They will

185
00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,959
Speaker 3: have to employ anyone, even if that person's views are

186
00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,480
Speaker 3: contrary to the faith of that particular school.

187
00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,760
Speaker 1: Surely, though, I mean, the curriculum is obviously a certain way,

188
00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:45,440
Speaker 1: and surely if your curriculum includes religious education classes and

189
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,000
Speaker 1: things like that, that it doesn't really matter, you know,

190
00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,240
Speaker 1: whether the teacher has different views or not. That is

191
00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:52,280
Speaker 1: the curriculum, and if you choose to work at that school,

192
00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:53,199
Speaker 1: you're obviously going to.

193
00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:53,720
Speaker 2: Have to teach it.

194
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's not as straightforward of that as that.

195
00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,560
Speaker 3: My understanding is for a lot of faith based schools

196
00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,440
Speaker 3: that they leave the faith into every single element of

197
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,800
Speaker 3: the education. So it's about the pastoral care at the school.

198
00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,640
Speaker 3: It's about the values of the school. It's about how

199
00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,920
Speaker 3: they teach math, how they teach There's not unnecessarily a

200
00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,760
Speaker 3: particular religious class. It's more that that faith is embedded

201
00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,640
Speaker 3: in every facet of the school, you know. But there

202
00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 3: are other really drastic changes as well. For example, you

203
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,080
Speaker 3: know currently obviously the Anti Discrimination Act is there to

204
00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:29,520
Speaker 3: protect people from racist attack or agendered attacks, but it's

205
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:32,720
Speaker 3: going to include an offense of offense, so if you

206
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,800
Speaker 3: offend someone, you can then be hauled before the Anti

207
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:39,199
Speaker 3: Discrimination Commission. And for your punter's Katie, who are tune

208
00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,559
Speaker 3: into Parliament, sometimes you'll hear the Labor government be offended

209
00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,439
Speaker 3: at all manner of work.

210
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:46,599
Speaker 1: Well, we had a lot of people actually messages and

211
00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,920
Speaker 1: get in contact with us about this yesterday. Are parliamentarians

212
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:51,720
Speaker 1: going to have to adhere to the same rules and

213
00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,480
Speaker 1: regulations inside parliament or you're going to be protected by

214
00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:55,600
Speaker 1: parliamentary privilege.

215
00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,040
Speaker 3: Well that's a great question, Katie, And I'm not so

216
00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,800
Speaker 3: worried about protecting my myself as the community. I think

217
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,600
Speaker 3: most people, you know, the Government's done this really sneakily

218
00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:06,880
Speaker 3: in my view, and I think a lot of people

219
00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:08,920
Speaker 3: won't realize that. Now, if you're at the part and

220
00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:12,640
Speaker 3: you tell a joke, if someone overhears that, you could

221
00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,480
Speaker 3: be up before the Anti Discrimination Commission. What's even more

222
00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,480
Speaker 3: scary is not just now that offending someone will be

223
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,080
Speaker 3: an offense under the Act, but that someone else can

224
00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:23,000
Speaker 3: be offended for you.

225
00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,199
Speaker 2: So, Katie, if you say.

226
00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 3: Something to me but I'm fine with it, but you

227
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,160
Speaker 3: know someone down the street heard us and thinks, oh Katie,

228
00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:30,800
Speaker 3: that was a bit rough, they can bring.

229
00:10:30,679 --> 00:10:32,120
Speaker 2: An action against you.

230
00:10:32,400 --> 00:10:34,839
Speaker 1: Common sense prevail here, though, I mean, will it be

231
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 1: a situation where then it goes through a process and

232
00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,160
Speaker 1: that process is that's ridiculous. You know I'm not going

233
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:42,760
Speaker 1: to be found to get in any sort of trouble. Well,

234
00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:45,200
Speaker 1: you can only hope no one knows. And ultimately the

235
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:46,640
Speaker 1: punishment is in the process.

236
00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:49,439
Speaker 3: I mean, if you have people, For example, there was

237
00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:53,320
Speaker 3: a situation in Tasmania where a preacher was found to

238
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,520
Speaker 3: have been offensive because they were reading the Bible. Someone

239
00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,520
Speaker 3: took offense to reading the Bible, you know, you're punished

240
00:10:58,520 --> 00:10:59,199
Speaker 3: by the process.

241
00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:00,839
Speaker 2: I imagine the lawyer's fees.

242
00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:04,120
Speaker 3: The lawyers will be rubbing their hands in the territory, Katie,

243
00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,720
Speaker 3: because people are going to have to be defending themselves

244
00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,080
Speaker 3: against these types of claims. And ultimately this is untested.

245
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,440
Speaker 3: We don't know how it's going to go. Only Tasmania

246
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,280
Speaker 3: has done this, and I think people have got better

247
00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,120
Speaker 3: things to do than spend their time tied up in

248
00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:19,800
Speaker 3: anti discrimination matters over offending someone.

249
00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:21,320
Speaker 2: We are just about out of time.

250
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,280
Speaker 1: But what then is going to happen next week? Look,

251
00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:28,440
Speaker 1: if this legislation passes, what you know, what can Territorians

252
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,280
Speaker 1: do it gets across the line. There's not a huge

253
00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:31,080
Speaker 1: amount that they can do.

254
00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,120
Speaker 3: It's not you need to get into the ear of government.

255
00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,520
Speaker 3: Most of you will actually have a labor local member.

256
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,360
Speaker 3: Go and speak to your label local member, send them emails,

257
00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,920
Speaker 3: ring their office, talk to the media. I mean, this

258
00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,040
Speaker 3: is really an infringement on free speech. It's a step

259
00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:47,960
Speaker 3: too far and it hasn't been justified by the government.

260
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,960
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, there's there's never been a minister

261
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,280
Speaker 3: come forward and explain why offensive needs to be a

262
00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 3: part of the Anti Discrimination Act, and we challenge them

263
00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:59,599
Speaker 3: to start to front up. You can't treat Territorians with

264
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,400
Speaker 3: this lets of contempt. People don't want to be dragged

265
00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:06,400
Speaker 3: before the Anti Discrimination Commission, if you're racist, if you're

266
00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:09,520
Speaker 3: any of those other things, absolutely but offensive is a

267
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:13,079
Speaker 3: very very subjective test, Katie. Well, look, we.

268
00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,320
Speaker 1: Are going to talk further about it. Unfortunately we've run

269
00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,199
Speaker 1: out of time, Leah. We'll catch up with you again

270
00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:19,360
Speaker 1: very soon. There's plenty more that I'm keen to talk

271
00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:20,720
Speaker 1: to you about, so we will talk to you again

272
00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:21,200
Speaker 1: very soon.

273
00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you,