1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:04,480 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. 2 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to 3 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: the Daily OS. It's Friday, the thirtieth of January. I'm 4 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: Billy fitz Simons. 5 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 2: I'm Zara Seidler. 6 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,880 Speaker 1: On Monday, a man threw a bomb into a crowd 7 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: at an Invasion Day rally in Perth, Western Australia. Police 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: said the bomb, which failed to detonate, was designed to 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: quote explode on impact. One of the rally organizers, Fabian Yarin, 10 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,880 Speaker 1: called it quote a hate crime against First Nations people 11 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: and protesters, and said it must be fully investigated as 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 1: an act of terrorism. Police, however, have not labeled it 13 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,600 Speaker 1: as terrorism. They've said they're treating it as a potential 14 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: terror act. Well, explain what you need to know in 15 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: today's podcast and the fallout that has entued. 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: Okay, So, Billy, I think that we should first run 17 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 2: through what actually happened on Monday, at least what we 18 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,319 Speaker 2: know to have happened, and then go into what you 19 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,280 Speaker 2: just said about the terrorism label, because I know that's 20 00:01:11,319 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 2: attracted a lot of online discourse. But just starting from 21 00:01:14,480 --> 00:01:16,720 Speaker 2: the beginning, what actually happened. 22 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, So on Monday, It was, of course the date 23 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: of Australia's national holiday, officially called Australia Day, but it's 24 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: often called Invasion Day by many First Nations people and allies. 25 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,680 Speaker 1: And in Perth there was an Invasion Day rally. Now, 26 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,240 Speaker 1: at this specific rally in Perth, police say about twenty 27 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: five hundred people were in attendance, so there was a 28 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 1: lot of people there and they alleged that just after midday. 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 1: Police alleged that just after midday, a man removed an 30 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 1: item from his bag and he threw it into the 31 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: crowd of protesters before fleeing the scene. That item, police 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,280 Speaker 1: say was a bomb also known as an improvised explosive device, 33 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: which is most see what the police have been calling it, 34 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:04,400 Speaker 1: but it is the same thing as a bomb. And 35 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: like I said before, it did not detonate, so no 36 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: one was harmed. 37 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 2: But there has been quite a lot of CCTV footage 38 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 2: that you know, we've been able to watch that incident 39 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 2: really unfold. 40 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can literally see him throw it into 41 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: the crowd and then free. 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 43 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: What we know happened after that happened is that a 44 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: member of the public alerted the police, and the police 45 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: then dispersed the crowd and isolated the bomb and then 46 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: they were able to investigate it and see exactly what 47 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:36,080 Speaker 1: it was. The man who, like I said, he fled 48 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 1: the scene, he was identified by police and he went 49 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 1: into police custody, and since then he has been charged 50 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: with two offenses. So he has been charged with making 51 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: or possessing explosives under suspicious circumstances as well as an 52 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,440 Speaker 1: unlawful act with intent to harm. 53 00:02:54,520 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: So this man has been charged with two separate offenses. 54 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: There we know that he is denied bail as well. 55 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 2: You keep referring to him as the man or the 56 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: alleged defender. What do we know about him beyond say, 57 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: what we saw on that CCTV footage. 58 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 1: Honestly, we don't know a lot at all because we 59 00:03:14,280 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: as in the media are not able to identify him 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: in any way. 61 00:03:18,680 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: Talk me through that. So you're referring there to a 62 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:26,919 Speaker 2: suppression order. Yes, we the media are obliged to follow 63 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: this suppression order. Why is it in place? I mean 64 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 2: I think that for people that don't work in media, 65 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: it's a very foreign concept. We've explained it before on 66 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 2: the podcast that was for a very different incident. Why 67 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: is it in place now for this? 68 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I asked WA courts this, and in terms 69 00:03:45,560 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: of why they didn't tell me, I'll get into that, 70 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: but just going back a step, Yeah, to explain what 71 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: a suppression order is. So, the media is not able 72 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: to publish the name, address, image, or any other particular 73 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: which would enable the identification of the accused in these matters. 74 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 2: So it's not even that we can't say his name, 75 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: it's that we can't give enough information that a reasonable 76 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: person would be able to deduce who that person was exactly. 77 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: And the Daily Oz could be taken to court or 78 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: get into a lot of legal trouble if we did 79 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: that in any way. Yeah, So that's why we can't 80 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: identify him in any way. In terms of why, I 81 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: did ask WA Courts and they said that because of 82 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 1: how the court system works, it would take about a 83 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 1: week for that information to be revealed. So obviously with 84 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,360 Speaker 1: the Daily podcast, that deadline didn't quite work for us. 85 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: In terms of why in the past suppression orders are granted, 86 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: it could be if the courts believe that identifying the 87 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: person could impact their right to a fair trial, or 88 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 1: if they think that the safety of the person is 89 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: at risk. Those are just some of the reasons why 90 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 1: suppression orders can be granted, but we don't know the 91 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,080 Speaker 1: exact reason in this case. 92 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:00,840 Speaker 2: So there is just so much about this that we 93 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,239 Speaker 2: don't know or that we can't report on. We can't 94 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 2: report on the person's name or identity, but also the 95 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: reason why this suppression order exists in the first place. 96 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:12,720 Speaker 2: So there are definitely a lot of question marks around 97 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: what unfolded on Monday. I want to take a step 98 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: back now and just talk through what the response has 99 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: been to this. Obviously it was a First Nation's rally 100 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 2: where this took place. What have we heard from the 101 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: First Nation's community. 102 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say the First Nation's community have obviously 103 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: been very deeply distressed by this incident, and not just 104 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:37,839 Speaker 1: by what has happened, but also what could have happened. 105 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,840 Speaker 1: You know, this could have been a mass casualty event. Yeah. 106 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,599 Speaker 2: I heard the same from police, which is obviously extremely 107 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: concerning and distressing. Yes. 108 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,280 Speaker 1: So Casey Tierman, who is the Indigenous rights campaigner at 109 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,840 Speaker 1: Amnesty International Australia, she put out a statement where she 110 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 1: said this rally was attended by thousands, including elders, children 111 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: and babies. It is a miracle the device didn't explode. 112 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,160 Speaker 1: This was a deliberate attack on First Nations people, designed 113 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,760 Speaker 1: to cause maximum harm and fear. It comes amid rising 114 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: racist and hate fueled attacks. I also have seen some 115 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 1: criticism directed at the response from officials on the day 116 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: and also in the days after, so one of the 117 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 1: rally organizers, Fabin Yarin. He said, quote there was a 118 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: significant lack of communication from WA police when the device 119 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 1: was discovered, which led to confusion and unnecessary concern. At 120 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 1: no point was their clear, timely or transparent communication with 121 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: rally organizers. Yarin also said that this incident needs to 122 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: be quote fully investigated as an act of terrorism, and 123 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: also called for the Royal Commission into Anti Semitism and 124 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: Social Cohesion, which was recently announced by Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi, 125 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: to be immediately expanded to include all forms of racism 126 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: and far right extremism. Fabin Yarin said, what we are 127 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: seeing is not an isolated issue. These threats impact many 128 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: communities and any serious inquiry must reflect that reality. 129 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:09,359 Speaker 2: I want to pick up on a point that Fabian 130 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 2: made about the designation of this as a terror attack. 131 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 2: You said at the top of this podcast that it 132 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 2: hasn't as of the time of recording been classified as 133 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,240 Speaker 2: a terrorist attack, but we know authorities kind of working 134 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: through that right now. Talk to me about what goes 135 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 2: into this sort of designation. 136 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: Well, i'll repeat what Western Australia's Police Commissioner, Cole Blanche 137 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: said when he was asked exactly why this hasn't yet 138 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: been declared a terrorist act. So he said, to be 139 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: an act of terrorism, it requires one of three things, 140 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:44,960 Speaker 1: either political motivation, a religious motivation, or some type of 141 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 1: ideology and advancing that cause. He continued, So at this 142 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: stage it's a hostile act and we are investigating whether 143 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: or not those motivations existed to prove terrorism charges. So 144 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: that's what we know about the criteria almost exactly. So 145 00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: that was said on Tuesday. Then on Wednesday, WA Police, 146 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: the AFP and AZO put out a joint statement where 147 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: they said that they are investigating it as a potential 148 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 1: terrorist act, so there could be an announcement on that 149 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: at any moment if they do decide to declare it 150 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 1: a terrorist act. If that does happen, that would mean 151 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 1: that the alleged perpetrator could face terrorism charges, which would 152 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: obviously increase his maximum jail sentence if he is found guilty. 153 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:35,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, because I was going to say that he's only 154 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:39,000 Speaker 2: been charged with these two crimes at the moment, and 155 00:08:39,080 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 2: so that would obviously increase in the event that this 156 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 2: was declared a terrorist attack, as we saw say in 157 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: the aftermath of the Bonde attack. Billy, thank you for 158 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: explaining that, and thank you for joining us for this 159 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,679 Speaker 2: episode of The Daily os. If this has brought up 160 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: anything for any First Nations listeners, you can contact thirteen 161 00:08:57,920 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: Yan at any point. We'll be back again later today 162 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: with the afternoon headlines, but until then, take care of yourself. 163 00:09:08,120 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 164 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 165 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,719 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 166 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest 167 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: Rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the 168 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: First peoples of these countries, both past and present.