1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:03,920 Speaker 1: No matter how hard most of us try, it always 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: feels like there is a never ending stream of emails 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: to reply to and not enough time in which to 4 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: do so. If you reply too fast, you get more emails, 5 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: and if you don't reply fast enough, you forget or 6 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 1: run out of time to reply and then end up 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: feeling guilty. If you can relate, then today's guest might 8 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: have the answer to the email problem you've been struggling with. 9 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: Chris Gilibo is a New York Times best selling author 10 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: whose book The One Hundred Dollars Startup sold over half a 11 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:39,240 Speaker 1: million copies and his side Hustle School podcast has surpassed 12 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 1: one hundred million downloads worldwide. In this quick win, we'll 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,160 Speaker 1: be exploring what email bankruptcy is and why it could 14 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,000 Speaker 1: be making you stressed out, and the bold email strategy 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,880 Speaker 1: Chris uses to fight time anxiety even if it ticks 16 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: people off, and also why he's completely fine with that. 17 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, 18 00:01:08,680 --> 00:01:12,639 Speaker 1: and strategies for optimizing your day. I'm your host, Doctor 19 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: Amantha Imba. Email is such a time waster for so 20 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: many people, and I feel like there are quite a 21 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 1: few interesting ways and innovative ways that you've thought about 22 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 1: just how people can contact you and spending less futile 23 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,880 Speaker 1: hours in the inbox. Tell me what's been most impactful 24 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: for you in terms of reducing the time anxiety with email. 25 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: I feel like I should first say that, you know, 26 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 2: we talked about like what was my greatest problem or 27 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 2: what was I experiencing. You know, as I came to 28 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: the research project behind this book, guilt about my email 29 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: and my inbox was just so powerful and so overwhelming. 30 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: It was probably the thing I felt the most guilty 31 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 2: about for years, because I would begin almost every sentence 32 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,079 Speaker 2: of every email with like it's like, I'm so sorry 33 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 2: for the delay in reply, you know, it's like that's 34 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: just like my introduction, that's just could be just templated. 35 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: And then I noticed I was either very fast or 36 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 2: very very slow and getting back to people like I 37 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 2: would try to be fast, but if I didn't respond 38 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,359 Speaker 2: the same day, it was going to be days or weeks, 39 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: and I would just keep thinking about it. It's not 40 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 2: like I had forgotten, you know, it wasn't out of sight, 41 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: out of mind, but I would feel this great resistance, 42 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 2: you know, to going back to it. So I feel 43 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 2: like what a lot of systems and productivity methods do 44 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 2: is they're providing like some tools and things, but they're 45 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 2: not really addressing the psychological problems behind why we have 46 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: resistance towards email, for example, or why it's hard for 47 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 2: people to be on time, or many other examples that 48 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 2: we could talk about. And so for me, some of 49 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: it is just kind of grace and understanding, like I'm 50 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,679 Speaker 2: not going to be like a great email ninja. There's 51 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 2: a lot of people that I'm probably not going to 52 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 2: be able to get back to. Like I used to 53 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: really prize responsiveness and equate responsiveness with excellence, and maybe 54 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 2: I've just kind of shifted in that because if I 55 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: am always responsive, that means I'm not doing other things, 56 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:22,120 Speaker 2: and I want to be writing books and you know, 57 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 2: creating projects and doing other work. 58 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 3: So maybe that's the first thing. 59 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 2: It's just understanding like I can't do it all, creating 60 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: little buckets of time where I'm like, Okay, I'm just 61 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 2: going to go in and spend twenty minutes and try 62 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 2: to respond to as much as possible, but I don't 63 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: have like like have you seen these like well, of 64 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: course you have like the auto responders people always have 65 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: like I only check email between you know, four fifteen and. 66 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 3: Four twenty five pm or whatever, but I'll get back 67 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 3: to you. Then people that use those I feel like they. 68 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 2: Never actually get back to you during that time. They've 69 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 2: set this up for themselves and some like they think 70 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: this is going to be, you know, a great things true, right, 71 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: but that doesn't actually work for them. And they're also 72 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: the people that tend to intrusive. 73 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 1: You know. 74 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 2: What's funny is like they need something from you and 75 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 2: they're reaching out to you, and then you actually respond, 76 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: but then you get kind of told off. They're like, oh, 77 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: I shouldn't emailed you right now because this is not 78 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: your email hours. So that's another observation. But I guess 79 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: I've just tried to kind of get away from being 80 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 2: a perfectionist about it. 81 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 1: You wrote about in time anxiety. I think, did you 82 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 1: call it email bankruptcy? And I want to know if 83 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: you still do this, if you did this in January, 84 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: tell me what is email bankruptcy? 85 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:29,559 Speaker 3: Yeah? 86 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: So I've got all of these messages, you know, in 87 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 2: my in box. It's not like a huge number. I 88 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: mean to some people that have thousands, but when they 89 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 2: get to those large numbers. It's not that they have 90 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 2: thousands of individual messages written to them, Like they're just 91 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 2: copied on a bunch of stuff, you know, so that 92 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,479 Speaker 2: you can kind of go through and clean out. But 93 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 2: so it's not a huge number, but there's there's often 94 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 2: like I don't know, between fifty and one hundred messages 95 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 2: that I just don't respond to and they actually need 96 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 2: something from me, and those are the ones that I 97 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: feel really bad about. And so weeks go by and 98 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 2: months go by, and just you know, think about what 99 00:05:00,520 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: do I do about this? And so sometimes I have 100 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: like a to dread list where I'm like, what are 101 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 2: all the things that I dread that I'm dreading right now? 102 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: I'm going to write that down and try to spend 103 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 2: some time about that. But with emails specifically, like sometimes 104 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 2: things just get too far behind and it's not really 105 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 2: going to be that helpful, you know, for me to 106 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: like if somebody wrote three months ago needing something urgently, 107 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 2: I mean I could write and apologize, but just dealing 108 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 2: with whatever they were asking about, they don't clearly don't 109 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: need it now They've solved their problems some other way, 110 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 2: so I just like every January, it's like I just 111 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 2: archive everything that's in the inbox that I haven't responded to, 112 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: and I start over, and then I tend to do 113 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: a much better job at least for a while, because 114 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: things are all like fresh and clean. And so I 115 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 2: think I used to like actually like send out a 116 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: note to people like, hey, so sorry, I might have 117 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: missed your message, send it again. But now I just 118 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: don't do that because people don't need another message on 119 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: their end, and if I do that, that's just going 120 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: to have more things coming back to me. 121 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,560 Speaker 3: So I just tried to like, let's just try to 122 00:05:59,600 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 3: move on. 123 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: So how many years have you done the January email bankruptcy. 124 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 3: For probably like five or six years now. 125 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: And has there ever been a negative consequence? 126 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 2: Probably there's probably some negative consequences that I don't know about. 127 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 3: That's the other thing, right, Yeah, I was going to 128 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 3: ask you, actually, what do you think about this? Does 129 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 3: this stress you out? You know? 130 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 2: Do you seem like a person who is like super 131 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 2: responsive and always on the ball and I respect that 132 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: so much? Are you like I would never do something 133 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:27,240 Speaker 2: like that. 134 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this little quick win with Chris. 135 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: I highly recommend checking out his book Time Anxiety, and 136 00:06:35,080 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: a link to the full interview with Chris is in 137 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 1: the show notes. 138 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:39,600 Speaker 3: If you like. 139 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 1: Today's show, make sure you get follow on your podcast 140 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: app to be alerted when new episodes drop. How I 141 00:06:46,320 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: Work was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, 142 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: part of the cool And Nation.