1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: Got a very busy morning lined up for you, and 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: we now know that the Federal government, well they're set 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: to spend nearly half a billion dollars in new grants 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: to accelerate Australia's clean hydrogen industry, with funding to be 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:16,440 Speaker 1: prioritized for regional areas. Now, the funding will go towards 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: creating up to seven clean hydrogen industrial hubs, with the 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: Government identifying these seven locations based on their interest, existing 8 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:27,920 Speaker 1: capabilities and infrastructure and resources. Now joining me on the 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: line right now to talk further about this is the 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 1: Energy and Emissions Reduction Minister Angus Taylor. 11 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning Katie, thanks for having. 12 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 1: Me, Thanks for joining us this morning. Now, Minister, we 13 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: know that the Federal government's already committed I believe one 14 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 1: point two billion dollars to a hydrogen investment. What's the 15 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 1: purpose of the additional one hundred and fifty million. 16 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: It's all about getting that critical infrastructure in place to 17 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: support these hubs. We see Australia is uniquely positioned across 18 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 2: the world in terms of our capacity to produce clean hydrogen, 19 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,600 Speaker 2: whether it's from renewables or from gas, or indeed even 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 2: from coal. And do it in a way which is 21 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: very very low or zero emissions. We have many sites, 22 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: Darwin is one of them. Darwin is a very very 23 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:19,560 Speaker 2: good potential site, but we need to make sure we 24 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,080 Speaker 2: get that infrastructure in place to support the development of 25 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,280 Speaker 2: the industry. This is no different from the early development 26 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: of the L and G sector or the iron ore 27 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 2: sector in Australia. We've done it before. We know a 28 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 2: lot about how to do it, but we do know 29 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: we've got to get that critical infrastructure in place to 30 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 2: attract that private sector investment, build up those markets and 31 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: build up, of course the processing facilities that are going 32 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 2: to be critical to building this industry. 33 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:47,040 Speaker 1: So why is Darwin being considered is because is it 34 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:49,440 Speaker 1: because we do have rich gas resources? 35 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. So Darwin has a couple of a number of 36 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: things that are very useful. One is you've got a 37 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 2: capable workforce that has particularly been built up with the 38 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 2: development of the L and G sector. Secondly, you've got 39 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 2: good potential for renewables being there in the north, good radiation. 40 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 2: You've got a gas resource which is extremely useful. There's 41 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: some COTWO sequestration options at Darwen. You've got the Beaterloo 42 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 2: basein being developed. So all of those things in combination 43 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 2: put Darwen in a very strong position. Now most countries 44 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 2: in the world would die for having a location like that. 45 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:33,000 Speaker 2: We've got seven we've identified in Australia, so having significant 46 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: commitment to getting these up and running is a real opportunity. 47 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: The only thing you have in Darwin is the relationship 48 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 2: already with big export customers in Japan and this is 49 00:02:43,120 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: where one of the early markets will be. We know 50 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: that that we've been in post dialogue with the Japanese 51 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 2: on the potential to build that export market and Darwen 52 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: is well positioned on that front as well. 53 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: And so how are you going to determine which hubs 54 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,160 Speaker 1: or which locations realistically end up with these hubs? That's 55 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: how bigger chance is going in with here. 56 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,800 Speaker 2: Well, it's been nominated as one of seven priority areas, 57 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 2: so you know we've only nominated seven, it's one of 58 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 2: them and that puts it right on the list. What 59 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,519 Speaker 2: we do need, though, is we need the private sector 60 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 2: investment coming forward. That's critical. You can't build an industry 61 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 2: like this purely with public money. Public money is critical 62 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 2: to get that infrastructure, supporting and enabling infrastructure in place, 63 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: you know, the facilities you need to be able to 64 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 2: produce and export and supply domestically. But the private sector 65 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 2: money is crucial. So we do need to see that 66 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 2: coming forward. But look, we're going to be working very 67 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 2: closely to give Darwen the very best chance of being 68 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: one of these hubs. I certainly think it has the 69 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: makings of it, and as I say, we wouldn't have 70 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 2: put it on the priority list if we didn't believe that. 71 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: But so the reality of it is, by the sounds 72 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 1: of it, that private investment is going to be crucial 73 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: when it comes down to determining which locations is help 74 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 1: actually do end up set up in. 75 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. Now, you've already attracted an enormous amount 76 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: of private sector investment in recent years, and so again 77 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: do one has a record in doing that. But this 78 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: is an industry that is ultimately going to be a 79 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: public private partnership. We need that private sector money coming forward. 80 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,720 Speaker 2: It can't purely be done on the government perse, so 81 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: that will be really critical. I do know there's a 82 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 2: number of players who are working on this now in 83 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 2: the private sector to make the sort of investments that 84 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,680 Speaker 2: are going to be necessary. So we'll continue to encourage that. 85 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: Now, obviously the aim is not only to have cleaner energy, 86 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: but it is also about creating jobs. How many jobs 87 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: could we see created here in the Northern Territory if 88 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:44,680 Speaker 1: indeed this does get off the ground for us. 89 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: Well, look when we did the National Hydrogen and Strategy 90 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago, which got this the ball 91 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 2: rolling on all of this, we saw the potential to 92 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: create around eight thousand jobs across Australia. So you know, 93 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 2: if there's seven hubs, you can do the mass on 94 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: what a typical hub might be. But you know, you're 95 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,400 Speaker 2: talking certainly a thousand jobs in a particular hub over time, 96 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: at about eleven billion dollars a year in GDP over 97 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: the next thirty years. But the truth is that it's 98 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: growing faster than we expect it. If anything, there's upside 99 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,039 Speaker 2: on that. So we do think it's significant. Critical to 100 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 2: that is not just the production of hydrogen, but the 101 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 2: customer sectors that use the hydrogen. So, I mean, what's 102 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 2: extraordinary about hydrogen is it can be used into so 103 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 2: many different applications. It can be used to produce fertilizer 104 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 2: or ammonium nitrite, It can be used to as a 105 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 2: source of energy. Going into electricity generators obviously has great 106 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: potential in the transport sector. So many of the jobs 107 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 2: will come on the customer side, not just on the 108 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 2: supplier side, and we certainly want to see that happening 109 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 2: in these hubs. 110 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: Minister, My understanding is that Wy and also Tazzy, You've 111 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: got the likes of Twiggy Forest backing them. How do 112 00:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: we compete with that? 113 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: Well, you've had no shortage of private sector investment in 114 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 2: Darwin in recent years. In fact, just as I was 115 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 2: listening and before I came on, you were talking about 116 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:13,560 Speaker 2: exactly that. And you know this is Darwin has done 117 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 2: this well and knows a lot about how to do 118 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 2: it attract that private sector investment. So I think, look 119 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 2: that the relationship that is really going to count in 120 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 2: the early days to build a very fast export market 121 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 2: will be the Japanese. There's no question about that. That 122 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 2: is where there's a large market They desperately need clean hydrogen. 123 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:35,559 Speaker 2: We need it too domestically, but it's a smaller market 124 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 2: in Australia that is in Japan. And having that pre 125 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,960 Speaker 2: existing relationship and that investment that's come from the Japanese. 126 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 2: I think is a very very strong starting point. 127 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 1: I know that some people listening will be thinking to themselves, 128 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: is it really going to be clean energy if indeed 129 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: we do still use gas. I know that you've obviously 130 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: pointed to solar and others as well, but I'll still 131 00:06:55,400 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: put that to you. Is it really going to be 132 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: clean energy if we are using gas from the beat low? 133 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: Yes? And here's why. Gas can be made into hydrogen 134 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: with a very clean stream of CO two, So it 135 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: just without going through the detailed chemistry, you get hydrogen 136 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: and you get CO two and it's a very clean 137 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 2: so it's not like burning coal and a calfi power station, 138 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 2: and that means it can be sequestered at very low cost. 139 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: You've got good sequestration options and they're only likely to 140 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: improve with a betleloose. So we do see great potential 141 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 2: to produce lower emissions, affordable hydrogen quickly. And that's the 142 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 2: opportunity in this marketplace, and gas, there's no question it's 143 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: part of it. Renewables are also part of it. If 144 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:41,480 Speaker 2: you can do both, then that's the best of pos 145 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 2: all possible worlds, and that's certainly what you have the 146 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 2: potential to do in Darwen. 147 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: Minister, when are we going to know the outcome of 148 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: where these hubs are going to be set up? And 149 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: if Darwin is one of the locations, it'll be. 150 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 2: In the first part of next year. As I say, 151 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 2: we've sent a very strong signal in nominating the priority 152 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 2: locations already, but we will make a decision on this 153 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: in the first part of next year. 154 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: Well, Minister, we really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks 155 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: so much for coming on and giving us a bit 156 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: further detail. 157 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: Good on you. Thank you.