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Speaker 1: Now, if you've been listening to the show this week,

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Speaker 1: you certainly would have heard the allegations of bullying being

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Speaker 1: made by two female staffers about the Member for fong Limb,

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Speaker 1: Tansel Rahman, in what's been described as a very serious matter. Now,

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Speaker 1: I had quite a few people messaging through yesterday saying

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Speaker 1: come on, Katie, this is an accusation, so it's a

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Speaker 1: HR matter. Now joining us on the line is the

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Speaker 1: Speaker of the Northern Territories Legislative Assembly. She's also the

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Speaker 1: Independent Member for Ara Lewin, Robin Lamley. Good morning to you, Robin.

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Speaker 2: Hi Katie, lovely to have you on the show.

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Speaker 1: Robin, I guess, first off, with your Speaker's hat on,

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Speaker 1: the Chief Minister told us on Monday this issue with

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Speaker 1: the Member for fong Limb was dealt with and was

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Speaker 1: a HR matter being managed by the Speaker's office. How

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Speaker 1: was that matter dealt with? Well?

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Speaker 2: As the Speaker, I'm also the Commissioner for Public Employment

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Speaker 2: for the Department of Legislative Assembly Staff, so from my

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Speaker 2: perspective it definitely was delt with as a HR issue.

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Speaker 2: It is on the public record that I met with

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Speaker 2: the members of the Parliamentary Committee that the Member for

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Speaker 2: fong Limb chaired and as a result of that meeting,

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Speaker 2: I was satisfied that it had met the requirements of

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Speaker 2: keeping those two members of staff safe and that was

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Speaker 2: the end of it. From my perspective, I don't have

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Speaker 2: any jurisdiction or remitt over members of Parliament how they

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Speaker 2: conduct themselves outside of Parliament. But from a hr perspective

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Speaker 2: and those staff, the matter was resolved.

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Speaker 1: So from your perspective, you've done everything that you can

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Speaker 1: within your remit to keep those staff members safe. But

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Speaker 1: it's not on you to to, you know, to advise

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Speaker 1: the Member for Fonnglim that he should apologize or any

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Speaker 1: other action.

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Speaker 2: No, no, it's not. Members of Parliament hold a very

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Speaker 2: peculiar position. I'm sure people are aware of that. They

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Speaker 2: are accountable to the Assembly. So if members feel that

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Speaker 2: another member has breached a code of conduct or behaved

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Speaker 2: in a certain way, the only real option is to

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Speaker 2: bring it out in Parliament in a debate or refer

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Speaker 2: them to the Privileges Committee. The Privileges Committee is designed

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Speaker 2: to assess situations around the conduct and behavior of members

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Speaker 2: and they can determine a course of action in addressing that.

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Speaker 2: But in this case, the Member for Fonglimb has not

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Speaker 2: been referred to the Privileges Committee, and I'm not aware

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Speaker 2: of any sort of internal ramifications or steps taken by

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Speaker 2: his political party. So yeah, that's not my concern. It

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Speaker 2: is my concern. Everything's my concern that happens within politics,

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Speaker 2: but it's something that I have no control over. My

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Speaker 2: area of interest was with my Legislative Assembly had on

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Speaker 2: and looking after those staff.

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Speaker 1: So do you think he should apologize?

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm not going to go into the details of

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Speaker 2: what happened or what did or didn't happen. But look,

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Speaker 2: generally speaking, if someone's accused of bullying someone, of course

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Speaker 2: they need to apologize profusely. Yeah, that's a no brainer.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's just being a decent human being and

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Speaker 2: taking responsibility for your behavior. So generally I can say yes,

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Speaker 2: but has that happened and how has that happened? I

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Speaker 2: can't comment on.

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Speaker 1: You don't know if he has.

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Speaker 2: Look, to be honest, yeah, I can't comment. But my

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Speaker 2: expectation of any colleague would be that they apologize. Yes,

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Speaker 2: But look, I think the person to talk to about

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Speaker 2: this is the Member for Songlimb. Obviously, taking off my

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Speaker 2: speakers had and putting on my member for Ara lew

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Speaker 2: and hat if you know, if it was me that

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Speaker 2: was under the spotlight for anything like this, you can't

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Speaker 2: hide forever. You've got to come out and you've got

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Speaker 2: to explain yourself and andy subject yourself to the scrutiny

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Speaker 2: of the public. You know, people are interested in these

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Speaker 2: sort of things. They carry a lot a great deal

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Speaker 2: of interest scandals and allegations of this nature. In this

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Speaker 2: day and age, we shouldn't be talking about cases of

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Speaker 2: bullying within the Legislative Assembly. It's just something that was

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Speaker 2: of a very serious nature. And yes, well I think

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Speaker 2: it is very important that he faced the music and

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Speaker 2: talked to the media and talk to the people of

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory about what's happened.

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Speaker 1: Well, we've certainly put in those requests Robin, as you know,

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Speaker 1: Kathleen and I absolutely have reached out to him to

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Speaker 1: see whether we can get him on the show. And look,

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Speaker 1: I don't know the circumstances in details surrounding this, but

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Speaker 1: what I know is that and again I could be wrong,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of the people that work within the

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Speaker 1: Legislative Assembly have done for an awful long time they're

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Speaker 1: incredibly experienced, they're fantastic at their jobs, and they work

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Speaker 1: for both sides or all, you know, all the different

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Speaker 1: members of Parliament, and have done for quite a long

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Speaker 1: period of time. So I think it is absolutely essential

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Speaker 1: that they receive the respect that they deserve.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely that goes without saying. And we are blessed to

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Speaker 2: have such qualify and capable people working for us to

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Speaker 2: support us in the Legislative Assembly. So this is a

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Speaker 2: very unfortunate and extraordinary set of events to have occurred.

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Speaker 1: Robin, let's move along. Let's put your hat on as

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Speaker 1: the independent member for our loan because I tell you what,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot going on in Central Australia today by

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Speaker 1: the look of it, and I understand that there's some

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Speaker 1: changes when it comes to people purchasing liquor. As of today,

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Speaker 1: you can't get a heavy strength beer, I don't think

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Speaker 1: unless you buy a meal at the pub. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is kind of a really specific and rather

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Speaker 2: peculiar strategy that the Liquor Commission have brought in as

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Speaker 2: of today. So just on Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays, you

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Speaker 2: can't drink full strength grog on premises unless you've got

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Speaker 2: a meal, and a meal is something they've defined as

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Speaker 2: food that you need cutlery to eat. But look, Katie,

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Speaker 2: I think this will only affect a really small number

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Speaker 2: of people. I mean, most people, particularly around my age,

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Speaker 2: don't even drink full strength beer anymore, or full strength grog.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, they can have a mid strength or a

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Speaker 2: light beer or some sort of other light beverage, but

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Speaker 2: just not full strength alcohol.

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Speaker 1: So Robert, what if you decide to order a pizza

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Speaker 1: or a burger, I'm I going to have to use

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Speaker 1: a knife and fork for those.

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Speaker 2: Now, well you will? You will, Katie, which is probably

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Speaker 2: good manners anyway, learn how to eat a pizza with

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Speaker 2: a knife and fork. But it's kind of a bit silly,

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Speaker 2: isn't it in some ways? But I've got to the

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Speaker 2: stage in life where I just think, let's give it

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Speaker 2: a go. It's going to stop people getting on the

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Speaker 2: grog at lunch time, falling out at the pub at

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Speaker 2: three o'clock when the bottle shop opens, causing mayhem and

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Speaker 2: chaos like we see frequently and have done for decades

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Speaker 2: in Alice Springs. Then bring it on. I don't have

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Speaker 2: a problem with this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, give it a crack and see what happens, and

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Speaker 1: Robin never a crack. A situation in Alice Springs as well.

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Speaker 1: Over the last week or so, it seems to be

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Speaker 1: blowing up again. Machete wielding youths arrested on Monday outside

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Speaker 1: the hospital. On Friday, there was a fight on the

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Speaker 1: street in broad daylight with people brandishing machetes. We'd spoken

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Speaker 1: to Saint John about this earlier in the week and

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Speaker 1: they had a paramedic that was up the street, you know,

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Speaker 1: had to hide and then had somebody running towards her

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Speaker 1: with a machete ran past her. Fortunately, but then you know,

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Speaker 1: from what I am told, injured somebody else that paramedics

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Speaker 1: and they're working on the person that's been struck with

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Speaker 1: a machete. It sounds horrific.

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Speaker 2: Yes, we have seen a deterioration. Last week when I

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Speaker 2: spoke to you on the program, I suggested that things

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Speaker 2: had appeared to have deteriorated, and certainly last week there

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Speaker 2: was a lot of evidence of that with machete wielding

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Speaker 2: people running a mark. But what we now know is

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Speaker 2: that this was a series is a payback attack, so

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Speaker 2: Bush people basically bringing their troubles to town, which is

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Speaker 2: a well known thing in Alice Springs. There was apparently

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Speaker 2: a death at Whitecliffe well some month months ago and

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Speaker 2: they've they've steered on it and they've bought their feud

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Speaker 2: to town. So these sort of things are really hard

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Speaker 2: to manage by the police and it takes their their

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Speaker 2: sort of policing intel and research and you know, the

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Speaker 2: various positions they have that work with these groups at

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Speaker 2: Bush to remain on top of what's going on with

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Speaker 2: these volatile communities and make sure that they know what's

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Speaker 2: happening and they know the movements and that that's hard work.

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Speaker 2: I mean, remember years ago that big brawl out the

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Speaker 2: front of the Todd Tavern when when just completely turned

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Speaker 2: to crap. That was the same sort of thing. It

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Speaker 2: was payback, it was communities brawling, and so this is

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Speaker 2: difficult to manage, but on the same token, it has

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Speaker 2: to be managed. And this is a big challenge for

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Speaker 2: the police and I'm not sure what more they're doing

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Speaker 2: to try and get on top of this. They're usually

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Speaker 2: working over time, but yeah, incredibly hard.

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Speaker 1: We're going to catch up with the Commander James gray

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Speaker 1: Spence this morning after ten o'clock and try and get

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Speaker 1: a bit more detail. I mean, Robin, there does seem

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of knife crime at the moment.

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Speaker 1: You know, does there need to be a review of

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Speaker 1: the policies in place around knife crime or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Well, once again, people coming in from bush. You know,

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Speaker 2: people use knives out bush for different things unless they

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Speaker 2: are behaving in a certain way or entering licensed premises.

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Speaker 2: How do you remove knives off people that they could

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Speaker 2: potentially use as weapons. Yeah, it's incredible hard policing, but

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Speaker 2: obviously it has to be done. And you know the

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Speaker 2: fact that things have been quite good this summer, we've

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Speaker 2: been very sort of cautiously optimistic that the relative piece

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Speaker 2: that we've been experiencing might extend throughout the whole of summer.

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Speaker 2: This is blown up, and I can only imagine that

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Speaker 2: the police and the government are working over time to

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Speaker 2: try and stem this and get this under control. But

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Speaker 2: these kids are really fierce, and they erupt at the

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Speaker 2: drop of a hat. Wherever people might sort of clash

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Speaker 2: and face each other. The hospital is where people go

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Speaker 2: for their visit friends and relatives and seek treatment, So

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Speaker 2: it's not surprising to hear that those things disputes occur

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Speaker 2: at the hospital. It's notorious for that. Yeah, we're all

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Speaker 2: on high learns.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely and got to get onto it. So, as

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Speaker 1: I said, we'll catch up with the commander this morning

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Speaker 1: after ten. But Robin, before I let you go, I

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Speaker 1: tell you what you've hit a bit of a nerve

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Speaker 1: even for our listeners up here in Darwin today. I

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Speaker 1: know in your newsletter there's been some Alice Springs families

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Speaker 1: and businesses hit with massive electricity bills after months of

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Speaker 1: billing delays from Jacana Energy. I mean some of these bills,

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Speaker 1: by the sounds of it, were huge. I've got people

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Speaker 1: already messaging saying Katie, you know we're in a similar situation,

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Speaker 1: some of them with Jacana, somebody else saying their power water.

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Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's meant to be Jacana, but

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Speaker 1: what's the go for residents in Alice Springs?

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Speaker 2: Robert Well, I think it's obviously happened across the board,

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Speaker 2: and in fact we experienced it, my husband and I

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Speaker 2: with our business. There was a delay in Jacana billing

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Speaker 2: us and all of a sudden we were hit with

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Speaker 2: thousands of dollars of outstanding bill though to them, so

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Speaker 2: but the serious side of it is that the cases

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Speaker 2: that I've put in in that article pertain to people

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Speaker 2: getting these outrageous bills leading into Christmas, single parents, people

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Speaker 2: doing it tough, and the expectation of Jacana was that

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Speaker 2: they would get back. You suddenly find thousands of dollars

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Speaker 2: out of nowhere and pay it back. Look, Jacana need

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Speaker 2: to explain to people right across the territory what has

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Speaker 2: happened in this space. I think they have with some individuals.

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Speaker 2: But look, I'm waiting for estimates to come along, for

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Speaker 2: these questions to be asked and answered in full at

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Speaker 2: a minimum, hopefully before then. But if you can get

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Speaker 2: Jacana on your show to talk about the mistakes that

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Speaker 2: they've made and what they're doing to rectify it, I

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Speaker 2: think that would be really helpful. But I think what

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Speaker 2: they have on a new individual what they've done on

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Speaker 2: an individual basis is renegotiate people's repayment of outstanding bills.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, talk about killing people.

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Speaker 1: It makes it really tough. Hey, it makes it really tough.

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Speaker 1: And we're all all we all know what it's like

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Speaker 1: when you're budgeting for things and then you get a

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Speaker 1: massive bill. But Kathleen's got a note on her desk

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Speaker 1: right now to call Jakana, so we are onto it.

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Speaker 2: Robin, what we can do listen with great interest?

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Speaker 1: I know well I reckon everybody will be to find

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Speaker 1: out what the goal is because, as I said, the

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Speaker 1: text line is blown up just when I mentioned it

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Speaker 1: in the opener, so obviously it's impacting others. Robin Lamley,

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Speaker 1: we always appreciate your time. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: All the best, Katie, thank you you two