1 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,120 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers. 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:16,120 Speaker 2: Now the research suggests that life is genuinely for so many, 4 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 2: getting hard, getting harder, speed of life, expectations, pressure, financial worries, 5 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 2: mental health. It keeps on stacking up. 6 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: And now here's the scars of our show, my mom 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: and dad. 8 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colson. Welcome to the Happy 9 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: Families Podcast. I'm joined once again and as always by 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 2: my wife and mum to our six children, missus, Happy Families. 11 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:41,560 Speaker 3: Kylie who helps you? I can't believe you're still going there? 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:43,280 Speaker 2: All right, So if you missed it two days ago, 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,760 Speaker 2: I mentioned that Kylie had helped me to raise our 14 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 2: six kids, which is true. 15 00:00:48,600 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 3: I mean, you've done the majority of the helping. You've 16 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 3: done the majority. Let's just move on. 17 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 2: So once a month we on the podcast have a 18 00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 2: conversation called the Doctor's Desk. 19 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 4: This is sure, it's more than once a month. This 20 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 4: comes around way too quickly. 21 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 2: You say that you don't like it, but you get 22 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 2: very curious and you ask a lot of questions and 23 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,080 Speaker 2: you always smile when we're talking about it. The Doctor's 24 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: Desk is essentially an opportunity for me to geek out 25 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 2: on the latest parenting science and talk to you about 26 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,720 Speaker 2: things that researchers are discovering that are important for how 27 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:15,919 Speaker 2: we're raising our kids. 28 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 4: So where are you going to take us today? 29 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 2: We have two studies. I always get in trouble for 30 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 2: trying to cram too much in, so today it's just 31 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 2: two studies. The first one that I'm going to talk 32 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 2: about relates to what is known in the biz as ACES, 33 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 2: that is, adverse childhood experiences. But we're looking at aces 34 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 2: across birth generation, so essentially looking at whether or not 35 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,679 Speaker 2: kids today have more or less aces. Now normally it's 36 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 2: so in tennis, if you have an ace, that's a 37 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 2: good thing, right, The more aces you hit, the better 38 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 2: you're doing. But in life, in the Adverse Childhood Experiences questionnaire, 39 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: the more aces you have, the worst life is for you. 40 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: So we're kind of flipping the idea of ACES on 41 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: its head. The Adverse Childhood Experiences questionnaire asks questions like, 42 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: when you're a child, did you live with anyone who 43 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 2: served time or was sentenced to serve time in a prison, jail, 44 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,800 Speaker 2: or other correction or facility, or before Ajaten. How often 45 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: did a parent or adult in your home ever hit 46 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: or beat or kick or physically hurt you in any way? 47 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:22,079 Speaker 2: So aces, we're talking about trauma, we're talking about danger. 48 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 2: We're talking about the genuinely adverse things that happen in 49 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 2: childhood that can have an impact on resilience and well 50 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: being and motivation throughout the rest of a child's life. 51 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 3: As they become an adult. 52 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 2: So this is a research article that looks at aces 53 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: across birth generations. Are our baby boomers or our millennials, 54 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: or our Gen x's or wives or z's, are they 55 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:50,079 Speaker 2: experiencing more or fewer aces? What's the trajectory across time? Now, 56 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 2: of course, just because we're seeing this across the board 57 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 2: doesn't mean it's happening for every single person. But we're 58 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 2: looking at generational differences in aces. But what these research 59 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: which is also did Philip Hughes, Tabitha Ostrout, Monica Joel, 60 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: and Kathleen Thomas. What these researchers also did in a 61 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: very carefully done study, was they examined the odds of 62 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 2: experiencing these aces, not just across these generations, but also 63 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: in relation to sexual identity. So LGBTQ plus identity, and 64 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 2: the results are pretty interesting. If I was to ask 65 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: you which generation was more likely to experience higher levels 66 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: of ACES, that is, adverse childhood experiences, what would you suggest? 67 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 2: Do you think that it's our parents generation, the baby 68 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 2: Boomer generation, or do you think that it's our kids generation, 69 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: the millennials, or was it us Gen XGen Y, jen Z. 70 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 4: I think it's really hard to qualify because I think 71 00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 4: the experiences that we're having a different But if I 72 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 4: had to, if I had to pick one, I would 73 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:51,040 Speaker 4: think that it was our parents' generation. 74 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, I would have gone the same way. But 75 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 2: here's what the results showed. The odds of experiencing four 76 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 2: or more ACES were higher for Generation X, Millennials and 77 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: Gen Z than for Baby Boomers. And in fact, as 78 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 2: each generation has come through from the Baby Boomers, the 79 00:04:13,160 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 2: ACES has gone up. The number of adverse childhood experiences 80 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 2: has increased as generations have passed. 81 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 4: So I'm thinking about things in relation to education and 82 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 4: how research has enabled us to I'm wanting to believe 83 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 4: improve and grow in our understanding of what is appropriate 84 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 4: behavior and best practice to keeping our kids safe and 85 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 4: happy and healthy. But if I think about what society 86 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,560 Speaker 4: we live in today, I also recognize that we are 87 00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 4: living in a time never experienced before. In the speed 88 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,679 Speaker 4: with which we live life, there is more time pressure 89 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 4: on us now than I think our parents' parents experienced. 90 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 4: Life was in so many ways a lot simpler in 91 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 4: what we tried to put into our day. 92 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 2: Yes, I don't want to get all nostalgic about the fifties. 93 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 2: There was certainly some really challenging things, and I also 94 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 2: don't want to downplay the severity of the trauma that 95 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 2: many people experienced. But what you're suggesting, I think has 96 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: a lot of credence to it, because when we speed 97 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: things up, we have less time to invest in relationships 98 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 2: we have. 99 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 4: We can't think as clearly more pressure. Yeah, the pressure 100 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 4: is intensifies, and our ability to actually process and think 101 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 4: through our decisions is less. Like it's just that's the 102 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 4: way it works. 103 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,120 Speaker 2: Let me read to you what the research has said. 104 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: As they described their findings, they said, we examined adverse 105 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:01,440 Speaker 2: childhood experience exposure through a new lens by exploring generational 106 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 2: differences in aces in general and by sexual orientation status. 107 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 2: They say the proportion of people with four or more 108 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: ACES considered to be an indicator of potential toxic stress 109 00:06:13,160 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: and trauma. So four is that magic number that's the cutoff. 110 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,320 Speaker 2: Four or more is substantially higher for generations following the 111 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: Baby boomers. Millennials reported the highest proportion of four or 112 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 2: more ACES, followed by gen Z and then Gen X. 113 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 2: Household depression, drug use, incarceration, divorce, and emotional abuse appeared 114 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: to be universally higher across Gen X, millennials and Gen Z, 115 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: while several other unique ACES were elevated for each generation. 116 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 2: This finding is consistent with a recent systematic review on 117 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: trends in individual ACES that found increases in drug overdoses 118 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,679 Speaker 2: from nineteen seventy nine to twenty sixteen and an increase 119 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: in the divorce rate from nineteen fifty to two thousand. 120 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:05,360 Speaker 2: And then they step into the LGBTQ plus identity issues, 121 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 2: and I probably don't need to ask you whether you 122 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 2: think that the ACES would be higher according to sexual orientation. 123 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: My guess is that massively. Yeah, the answer is kind 124 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: of obvious, And this is what they said. LGBTQ plus 125 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: identity was associated with greater differences between generations when compared 126 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:24,120 Speaker 2: with Baby boomers. 127 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 3: But not gen X. 128 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 2: Then they dived into a little bit more and they 129 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: found that aces were higher overall for LGBTQ plus individuals, 130 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: and there are also differences in ACE exposure across generations 131 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 2: for those individuals. So we're talking about the relevance of 132 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 2: this in terms of long term health implications, mental health, 133 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: resilience and so on. And I just think it's a 134 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: fascinating study to look at overall, whether you look at 135 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 2: it with the sexual identity and orientation stuff included or not, 136 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: we see the same pattern. And that is this conversation 137 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 2: that I have consistently with people. The research suggests that 138 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 2: life is genuinely for so many getting harder, getting harder, 139 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: speed of life expectations, pressure, financial worries, mental health. It 140 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 2: keeps on stacking up. So the reason I wanted to 141 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: share this on the doctor's desk was number one, to 142 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 2: let people know that if they feel like life is 143 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: tough and it feels like it's unfair, the research is 144 00:08:25,960 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 2: on your side. It's showing that life is tough and 145 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: it does seem to be unfair, particularly if there are 146 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 2: any kind of LGBTQ plus identity challenges and orientations that 147 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:39,840 Speaker 2: you are facing, and I use the word challenge not 148 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: in a pejorative way, but in a recognition that this 149 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 2: does add a layer of complexity and complication and stress 150 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: to life. If you identify in such a way, then 151 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: life is almost certain to provide a slightly more challenging 152 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,719 Speaker 2: path for you to navigate. And therefore, all the things 153 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:02,720 Speaker 2: that we talk about on this podcast in terms of 154 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: connection and helping families to be active and involved and engaged, 155 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 2: all the stuff that we write about and talk about 156 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:10,880 Speaker 2: on this podcast and at happy families dot com dot 157 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 2: you is so important for helping with your well being. 158 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 2: So that's our first study. Let's talk about studying number 159 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: two and just a second. It's the Happy Families podcast, 160 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: the podcast for the time poor parent who just wants answers. 161 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 3: Now today it's a doctor's desk study. We've just talked 162 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 3: about aces. 163 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,079 Speaker 2: But now it's time to talk about something that shifts 164 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 2: the focus just a little bit. 165 00:09:34,240 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 3: Kyle, I've come across a study that. 166 00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 2: Looks at the way technologically assisted communication relates to the 167 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,199 Speaker 2: way our brains work together. That is, if you're having 168 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: a whole lot of time on zoom and I don't know, 169 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:46,240 Speaker 2: I mean in the last couple of years, What do 170 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 2: you reckon has been happening a little bit? What does 171 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: that do to our brains? So this was a study 172 00:09:53,880 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 2: that looked at kids and their parents, specifically kids around 173 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 2: about the age of twelve stepping into our lessons and 174 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 2: their mums. And the researchers looked at mums' brains and kids' 175 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:07,559 Speaker 2: brains while they were talking in one of two situations 176 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,720 Speaker 2: face to face like you and I are talking right now, 177 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 2: and digitally via zoom to have a look at what 178 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 2: was happening inside their brains. 179 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 4: Well, I'm curious to hear what the findings were. 180 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: So let me ask you, what do you think would 181 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 2: there be much different? I mean everyone talks about zoom 182 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: fatigue and having like that computer brain thing that happens. 183 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 2: Do you get that same kind of thing if you 184 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: sit in a conversation with somebody for too long? Do 185 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 2: you find that your brain slows down? If you're sitting 186 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: on the beach with me and talking, or if we're 187 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: going for a walk and talking, if we're face to 188 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 2: face and engaging with each other, or if you're spending 189 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: time with the kids and they're telling you about the day, 190 00:10:44,559 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: do you still zone out in the same way that 191 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 2: you can when you're on a zoom call. 192 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:49,520 Speaker 4: No, I don't think. 193 00:10:49,559 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: So what's your capacity for attention on a zoom call? Like, 194 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: how long until you start to wonder if you can 195 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: flick between screens without anybody noticing? 196 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 4: Well, I don't do zoom meetings like you do, so 197 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 4: I don't really have much to navigate. 198 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 3: Sure, but you've done plenty of them over the last 199 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 3: couple of years. 200 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 4: What I will say in my own experience is that 201 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 4: I definitely get more out of our conversation if I 202 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 4: can't be with you in person, if I can see 203 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 4: you as opposed to just the typical landline hanging up 204 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:22,599 Speaker 4: against the wall conversation. 205 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 2: So what are you saying, you'd rather FaceTime me than 206 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 2: just have a phone call. Yeah, see, I find it 207 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,800 Speaker 2: the opposite. I would rather have a phone call than 208 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,280 Speaker 2: do the FaceTime. I feel like there's more connection in 209 00:11:35,320 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 2: a phone call than in a FaceTime call. 210 00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:38,680 Speaker 3: So if I'm. 211 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 4: Talking to you, yes, because I see you and I 212 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 4: get time with you. But for people that I don't like, 213 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 4: so I've got friends in America, I would much rather 214 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 4: FaceTime with them because I feel like even though I'm 215 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 4: not with them, I can actually just be with them 216 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 4: in that moment, if that makes sense. I get that 217 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 4: visual connection as well as the voice recognition. 218 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 2: See, I just like to face on them because I 219 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 2: don't have to pay for a phone call. I can 220 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 2: use Wi Fi and. 221 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 4: I would rather Yes, I agree with you. If it's 222 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,559 Speaker 4: people that I have in my life on a regular basis, 223 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 4: then I will have a much better conversation with them 224 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 4: if I am just having a phone call. 225 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 3: So here's what the research has found. 226 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 2: We've got sixty two mother child pairs and they're signed 227 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 2: up to what's called. 228 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 3: A preregistered study, which means that the researchers. 229 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 2: Have done all of this the right way, and we're 230 00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 2: looking at their EEG. Brain to brain synchrony. What's happening 231 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 2: in mum's brain is that happening in the kid's brain. 232 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,599 Speaker 2: What's happening in the kid's brain. Is that happening in 233 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 2: mum's brain. Okay, these kids are on average around about 234 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:39,560 Speaker 2: twelve years of age. They range from ten to fourteen. 235 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 2: They're having a live, face to face interaction, and they're 236 00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 2: also having a technologically assisted remote communication. Now here's what 237 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 2: I think is fascinating. The live interaction face to face, 238 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 2: no screens involved, elicited what the research has described as 239 00:12:55,400 --> 00:13:02,440 Speaker 2: nine significant cross brain links between densely interconnected frontal and 240 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:06,640 Speaker 2: temporal areas of the brain. In other words, they identified 241 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 2: the brain really lighting up. There's a high level of 242 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 2: engagement in nine significant cross brain links. 243 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:16,440 Speaker 4: Okay, well, the experience that you have when you're face 244 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 4: to face with someone is three dimensional. Yeah, you actually 245 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 4: you get to see the nuances that you don't pick 246 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 4: up on the screen, like because when I'm looking at 247 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:34,959 Speaker 4: somebody on zoom, I'm seeing their face more times than night. Right, Sure, 248 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 4: but when I'm having a conversation with you, I can 249 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 4: see that your body stiffens up if I say something 250 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,559 Speaker 4: that you're you're not happy about, or if it kind 251 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 4: of rubs you up the wrong way, or I get 252 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 4: to smell you, and it could be you, it could 253 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 4: be your friend. But do you know what I mean, 254 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,240 Speaker 4: there's just. 255 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,319 Speaker 3: All of my things, like puppy dogs, all. 256 00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 4: Of my senses are engaged in a face to face conversation. 257 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 2: And that's that's what the research found. So there's nine 258 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:06,800 Speaker 2: significant cross brain links. Now for those who are nearer 259 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:11,160 Speaker 2: anatomically focused and aware and trained mothers right frontal region 260 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:13,480 Speaker 2: connected with the child's right and left front temporal and 261 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 2: central regions, suggesting its regulatory role in organizing the two 262 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:21,480 Speaker 2: brain dynamics. Okay, but here's the here's the really important thing. 263 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: Looking at the remote online interaction, that conversation elicited only 264 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 2: one significant cross brain cross hemisphere link. Essentially, what that 265 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 2: means we're comparing nine links to one in a face 266 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: to face versus a digital interaction. 267 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 3: The results of this. 268 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: Are I think fascinating in terms of highlighting that our 269 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 2: brains simply do not attend nearly as well to what's 270 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: going on online as what they do with what's happening 271 00:14:57,720 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 2: face to face. 272 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 4: Our eight year old has discovered FaceTime with her friends. 273 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 4: We've obviously moved to the coast, and she's keeping in 274 00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 4: touch with a couple of her friends, and I wasn't 275 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 4: aware until recently. I was kind of a bit more 276 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 4: intent and listening to the conversation. I realized it was 277 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,280 Speaker 4: quite stilted, right, and she was actually asking the same 278 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 4: question numerous times. So I kind of just stepped in 279 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 4: to check in on her and recognized that she's got 280 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 4: her friend up in a tiny, little screen on the 281 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 4: left hand side. But she's playing a computer game right 282 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 4: on my phone while she's talking. So she's worked out 283 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 4: that I won't let her play games on my phone, 284 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 4: but if she asks for a phone call that she 285 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 4: will be able to do it because spin a little 286 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:46,440 Speaker 4: bit sneaky and just the recognition that if she was 287 00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 4: in that space with her friend, I wouldn't see them 288 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 4: for hours. Yeah, like they are completely engaged, have so 289 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 4: much fun together. 290 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 3: But introduced the screen. 291 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 4: Introduce the screen and there's too much distruction. Yeah, there's 292 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 4: too many other things that are pulling for her attention. 293 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: So I asked before how long you can sit on 294 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 2: a zoom call before you get distracted and want to 295 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 2: start scrolling or checking out other websites or well, you. 296 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,760 Speaker 4: Would have lots of experience with this, So where do 297 00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:10,040 Speaker 4: you sit. 298 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 2: I'm good for about twelve seconds, I really am. But 299 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 2: if I'm with somebody, I want to put my phone 300 00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 2: as far away from me as I can. There's an 301 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 2: intrinsic draw towards being in relationship when I'm face to 302 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 2: face that you introduce a screen as the method of interaction. 303 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:34,280 Speaker 2: Even people who mean a lot to me. I struggle 304 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: to sustain focused attention and if we go back to 305 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 2: that study that brain to brain synchrony, I believe I mean, 306 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 2: in hindsight, this is kind of from the University of Duh, 307 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 2: but I believe them when they say there's only one 308 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,360 Speaker 2: link that they're finding versus the nine that they're finding 309 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: in high quality face to face interactions. I guess to 310 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 2: take home message really is keep your kids off screens. 311 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 2: Get them to interact face to face as much as possible, 312 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 2: and if they are going to be interacting with others 313 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 2: on screen, do it you can to help them to 314 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 2: focus intentionally on the interaction and not disappear into games 315 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 2: and other web pages. Like the purpose is interaction, the 316 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,360 Speaker 2: purpose is conversation. I really hope that you've enjoyed our 317 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 2: doctor's desk conversation today. The Happy Families podcast is produced 318 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 2: by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our 319 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: executive producer. Hey, thanks so much for joining us. We'll 320 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 2: talk to you tomorrow.