1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Dailia. 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:04,359 Speaker 2: This is the dlias. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:06,800 Speaker 1: Oh, now it makes sense. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 2: the sixth of January. 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm Zara Sidler, I'm Sam Kazlowski. 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,280 Speaker 2: Venezuelan President Nicholas Maduro is in a New York detention 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 2: center after US President Donald Trump ordered a raid to 9 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: capture the South American leader and take control of the country. 10 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: It followed an intense bombardment of Venezuela's capital, Caracas by 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: US forces over the weekend. Trump has said the US 12 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 2: will run the country until such time as we can 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: do a safe, proper and judicious transition. And so in 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 2: the wake of that, today Sam, we're breaking down what 15 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:51,320 Speaker 2: has actually happened in Venezuela, why the US took this 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 2: extraordinary action, and what it means for the country's future. 17 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: Zara didn't take long in twenty twenty six before we 18 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,760 Speaker 1: had our first real major international news event over the year. 19 00:01:06,360 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 1: Take me through what actually happened over the weekend. 20 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, on Saturday, President Trump announced that the US 21 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 2: had carried out what he called a large scale strike 22 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 2: against Venezuela. Now, it was really interesting watching this information unfold. 23 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 2: Because so much of Venezuela's media is state runs, so 24 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: a lot of journalists, ourselves included, were getting most of 25 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,320 Speaker 2: our information from Twitter, from people who were on the ground, 26 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: who were uploading videos. And it showed basically just mass 27 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: bombing across the country's capital. 28 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: Middle of the night, two am, a black scene and 29 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: then these kind of fireballs across much of metropolitan Caracas. 30 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, And it took a few hours for President 31 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: Trump to front up and say what had actually happened. 32 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: It was pretty clear from the outset that it was 33 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: the US, but it was only when Donald Trump confirmed 34 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: it first on truth Social and then he delivered a 35 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,840 Speaker 2: press conference that we fully under stood the scope of 36 00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 2: this operation. He confirmed that the operation involved one hundred 37 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: and fifty aircraft and lasted two hours and twenty minutes. 38 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: During that operation, most significantly, the US captured Nicholas Maduro 39 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,959 Speaker 2: and his wife. Now, as I just said, Nicholas Maduro 40 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: is the country's president, and so we basically for the 41 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 2: first time learned this when Donald Trump posted a photo 42 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,560 Speaker 2: of him on an aircraft on a US aircraft, he 43 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,919 Speaker 2: was handcuffed and he was wearing an eye mask, and 44 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:33,799 Speaker 2: that's when we learned that this leader had been captured. 45 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: And just to sit on that word captured, you mean 46 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 1: they actually, you know, a swat team dropped into his 47 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: presidential compound, his home and captured the president and his. 48 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: Wife, correct, And they were transported via helicopter to a 49 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:52,240 Speaker 2: US Navy ship offshore before they were flown to New York. 50 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: And as we speak, he's being held in a New 51 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 2: York detention center being indicted on various federal charges, including 52 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 2: narco terrorism, conspiracy. 53 00:03:02,560 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: And by narco terrorism that means basically a state sanctioned 54 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: supply and distribution of drugs, right exactly. Okay, so this 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: is part of Donald Trump's kind of war on drugs, 56 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,359 Speaker 1: is prosecuting the leader of what he believes to be 57 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: a kind of country run drug syndicate. It's pretty unprecedented, 58 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: and I'd say so it's really a super dramatic, very 59 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: series of events. Before we get into the why behind 60 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 1: all of this, give me a sense of who Nicholas 61 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: Maduro is. 62 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: Well, I think that ties very closely into the why 63 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 2: behind this. So, just to take it back, Nicholas Maduro 64 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,839 Speaker 2: became the president of Venezuela in twenty. 65 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: Thirteen, twelve thirteen years ago. 66 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: Yep, after his predecessor, Hugo Chavez was diagnosed with cancer. 67 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 2: So basically, when he was diagnosed, he got up and said, 68 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:56,280 Speaker 2: I want Nicholas Maduro to replace me. 69 00:03:56,720 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 3: Now. 70 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: Maduro is a member of the United Socialist part and 71 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:02,560 Speaker 2: I do just want to say, I think part of 72 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: the challenge of people trying to understand what is happening 73 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 2: right now in Venezuela is that it doesn't necessarily fit 74 00:04:09,080 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: into left right binaries that a lot of people would 75 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,920 Speaker 2: perhaps usually use traditionally used to understand politics or stories. 76 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 2: You know, Nicholas Maduro is arguably on the far left. 77 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: He is part of a socialist party. But as we'll 78 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:26,119 Speaker 2: come to speak about, he has been accused of running 79 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 2: a dictatorship by both his political opponents, but more broadly 80 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 2: by a lot of world leaders. Between twenty twelve and 81 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,479 Speaker 2: twenty twenty, just to give you a sense of Venezuela 82 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: as a country under Maduro, between those years, Venezuela's economy 83 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:45,840 Speaker 2: shrank seventy one percent under his leadership. Millions of Venezuelans 84 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 2: have entered poverty. More than seven point seven million people 85 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: have fled the country. There are more Venezuelan refugees than 86 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: from any other country around the world. I think a 87 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 2: lot of people don't fully appreciate that that more Venezuelans 88 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: have had to leave their home in recent years than 89 00:05:01,440 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 2: from any other country. And there's been a very violent 90 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,919 Speaker 2: crackdown on political dissent in the country. So any opposition 91 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:12,480 Speaker 2: to Maduro has been met with quite a violent crackdown. 92 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: And so then that all kind of unfolds between as 93 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: you said, twenty twelve and twenty twenty, it takes us 94 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: right up until the twenty twenty four elections. What happened 95 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,480 Speaker 1: there That was just now eighteen months ago. Talk me 96 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: through that. 97 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 2: So ahead of the twenty twenty four elections, Maduro banned 98 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 2: his opponent, Maria Corrino Machado from running as a candidate. 99 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,640 Speaker 2: Now you might remember her name. It might be familiar 100 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: to you because she was recently awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. 101 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:42,919 Speaker 2: When she was banned from running, a man named Edmundo Gonzalez, 102 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: who's a former diplomat, was chosen by the opposition to 103 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,360 Speaker 2: be the candidate that would replace her, and so he 104 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 2: ran against Maduro in the twenty twenty four election. Now, 105 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:57,040 Speaker 2: Maduro was formally declared the winner of that election. However, 106 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 2: Gonzales was very widely considered to be the legitimate winner, 107 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 2: and since the election, both international election analysts and internal 108 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 2: opposition parties have accused Maduro of stealing the election. There 109 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 2: have been mass protests across the country. We understand that 110 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 2: the government at the time arrested up to two thousand 111 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 2: people who were involved in those protests, and that that 112 00:06:20,640 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 2: number included a lot of miners. 113 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: And one of the loudest critics of that twenty twenty 114 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: four election result was US President Trump and his administration. 115 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 1: They've been critical of Maduro for a while. It really 116 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: kind of became louder in that election period. What is 117 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: the relationship like between the US and Venezuela. Well, not 118 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:42,840 Speaker 1: great now, but a bit tense. 119 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, But as you said, the US didn't recognize the 120 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:50,400 Speaker 2: results of the twenty twenty four election. They didn't recognize 121 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: Maduro as the president of Venezuela. Neither did a whole 122 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 2: host of other Western nations. I'm pretty sure Australia was 123 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,919 Speaker 2: among them, And so I guess that is the setting 124 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: of the relationship between the two. And then more recently 125 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,800 Speaker 2: Over the past few months, the Trump administration has been 126 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 2: repeatedly criticizing Maduro over what it calls his involvement in 127 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 2: shipping drugs to the US. As we spoke a bit 128 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: about before, Trump has labeled Maduro a narco terrorist. And 129 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,400 Speaker 2: then it kind of all culminated more recently when the 130 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: US ramped up pressure with a massive military build up 131 00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,640 Speaker 2: in the Caribbean and a series of deadly missile attacks 132 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: on these alleged drug running boats. And so most of 133 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: the headlines I guess that we'd seen before the new 134 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,440 Speaker 2: year had been about these attacks on these vessels that 135 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 2: were traveling from Venezuela. 136 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 1: And so the US conducts missile strikes on boats in 137 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: the middle of the Caribbean that they say carries drugs, 138 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: that Venezuelan boats that Venezuela says are actually carrying oil. 139 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: And that takes us all the way up to the 140 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 1: strikes that we saw on Saturday. President Trump gets up 141 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: and says, we are essentially taking control of Venezuela. Yeap, 142 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: break that down for me, because that's a very big statement. 143 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: It is a very big statement. So the sequence of 144 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:10,480 Speaker 2: events was, first there were these attacks on the nation's capital. 145 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 2: Shortly afterwards, we get confirmation from Donald Trump that Maduro 146 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 2: has been captured, and then he holds a press conference, 147 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:20,320 Speaker 2: and it's in that press conference that he announces that 148 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 2: the US will run Venezuela until there is what he 149 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: calls a peaceful transition of power. He said at the 150 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 2: time that the US is not afraid of boots on 151 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 2: the ground. It is important, though, to note here that 152 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:37,520 Speaker 2: US forces have no control over the country, and Maduro's 153 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: government has publicly indicated that it will not cooperate with 154 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 2: the US. So how the US intends to run it, 155 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 2: or who will run it, or how it will be 156 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 2: run that all remains to be seen, basically. 157 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: And it's a really interesting difference between what happened over 158 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,559 Speaker 1: the weekend in Venezuela and what happens twenty years ago 159 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: in Afghanistan and Iraq, where the transition of power and 160 00:08:57,640 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 1: the capture of a leader and all that kind of 161 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: stuff happened with US boots on the ground. The US 162 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: doesn't even have an embassy in Venezuela, so it really 163 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 1: is a different makeup and it kind of leads to 164 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,200 Speaker 1: the question of who actually is in charge right now? 165 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there is a short term answer to that. 166 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:14,760 Speaker 2: I guess a very literal answer to who is in 167 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 2: power right now, and that is Maduro's vice president, Delsey Rodriguez. 168 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: She's assumed the position of interim president. She was sworn 169 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 2: in by a court. She's publicly called on the US 170 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:30,440 Speaker 2: to release Maduro and his wife. And so I guess 171 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: the question, as I just said, that remains is has 172 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 2: there actually been a change in the leadership of Venezuela 173 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: or are they now just handing the baton to basically 174 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 2: Maduro's successor. I did speak to somebody who is on 175 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 2: the ground in Venezuela about what it's like for Venezuelan's 176 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 2: there right now, quite literally, you know, walking around what 177 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: it looks like. Because I think it's one thing for 178 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:55,079 Speaker 2: us to be talking about it here in Australia, it's 179 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: another thing to be over there and having witnessed what 180 00:09:57,640 --> 00:09:59,599 Speaker 2: is happening and how people are feeling. I'm going to 181 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: throw two quick grab. 182 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: The vibe on the ground in Caracas over the weekend 183 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 3: was one of sort of stunned silence, maybe mixed with 184 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 3: a sense of cautious optimism on the silence front. You know, 185 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:15,520 Speaker 3: I think that There have been talk, especially from the 186 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 3: Trump administration for many months now or weeks at least, 187 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 3: of a build up of military aggression in the area. 188 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 3: I didn't get the sense in a couple of weeks 189 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 3: that I spent in the capital that anyone was taking 190 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 3: that really seriously. The roads were packed and they'll lead 191 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: up to Christmas and now I think the most startling 192 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: thing is that they're completely empty. We saw a couple 193 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 3: of cars passing the street that we've been staying on, 194 00:10:45,480 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 3: mainly going in search of food or gas from the 195 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:53,199 Speaker 3: gas stations. Long lines for both grocery stores and gas, 196 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:55,959 Speaker 3: but nothing like the sort of COVID scenes that you 197 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 3: saw in Australia, with you know, panic buying toilet paper 198 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 3: and the like. Most people are just sort of hanging 199 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 3: out at home and waiting to see where this leads. 200 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,400 Speaker 1: So Zara, I don't think we can have a conversation 201 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: about Venezuela without talking about oil. It's something that Trump 202 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: has talked about a lot, and I think it's an 203 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: important part of this story. Yeah, give me a quick 204 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 1: breakdown on the role that oil plays in Venezuela's economy 205 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 1: and global trade, but also what happens to all the oil. 206 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 2: Now. Yes, so Venezuela has the world's largest oil reserves. 207 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,120 Speaker 2: So let's sit on that for it's a huge thing. 208 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:31,280 Speaker 1: To the world's largest oil reserves. 209 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and Trump has made no secret of the fact 210 00:11:34,440 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 2: that this is part of his plan is to tap 211 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 2: into those reserves because Venezuela. We spoke about how the 212 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: country's economy has shrunk some seventy percent. There was a 213 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 2: time where Venezuela was the richest country in South America. 214 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 2: That was largely due to the oil that it has 215 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 2: access to. And so Donald Trump has made very clear 216 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 2: that US oil companies will move back into Venezuela and 217 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 2: basically on these oil reserves and start to profit from 218 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 2: them once again. And he suggested that that money will 219 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 2: then be used to rebuild Venezuela, rebuild the country which 220 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 2: is in tatters at the moment. He said, We're going 221 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: to have our very large United States oil companies, the 222 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,599 Speaker 2: biggest anywhere in the world, go in, spend billions of 223 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,200 Speaker 2: dollars and fix the badly broken infrastructure. 224 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: A really interesting economic lens to put on this, but 225 00:12:24,920 --> 00:12:27,679 Speaker 1: also it means that for US in Australia, we may 226 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 1: see changes in petrol prices over the next couple of months, 227 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: depending on what happens. Let's talk now, though about that 228 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 1: global response. Give me a sense of first how other 229 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:38,959 Speaker 1: world leaders have responded to this. 230 00:12:39,559 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: It's been a bit mixed. I guess I'll start with 231 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,679 Speaker 2: the UN. We had Secretary General Antonio Guterrez describe what 232 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 2: had been done as a dangerous precedent, i e. The 233 00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 2: US going in and capturing a leader. The UN Security 234 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 2: Council met on Monday to discuss what had happened. But 235 00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 2: if we look at world leaders more generally, Australian Prime 236 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 2: Minister Anthony Alberanesi said Australia continues to support international law 237 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,679 Speaker 2: and a peaceful democratic transition in Venezuela that reflects the 238 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 2: will of Venezuelan people. We had French President Emmanuel Macron 239 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:15,720 Speaker 2: express hope that Gonzales, who I said was that opposition 240 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: leader who by all indications should have won the election. 241 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 2: Macron said that he hopes that Gonzales will be able 242 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: to run Venezuela, so he was essentially saying now there 243 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,480 Speaker 2: should be a change of power. We had the Spanish 244 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:34,680 Speaker 2: PM Pedro Sanchez say that Spain doesn't recognize the Maduro regime, 245 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: but equally won't recognize an intervention the US intervention that 246 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 2: it says violates international law. 247 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 1: Really interesting kind of a stalemate there. 248 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And then we had the Chinese Foreign Ministry 249 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 2: condemned the move, saying that China is deeply shocked and 250 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 2: that it condemns this use of force by the US 251 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:53,880 Speaker 2: against a sovereign country. So I think, I mean, I 252 00:13:53,960 --> 00:13:57,880 Speaker 2: chose those just to show the array of responses. Venezuela 253 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,760 Speaker 2: itself is you know, an ally of Iran, of Russia, China, 254 00:14:02,960 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 2: of China exactly, so that gives you a bit of 255 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: a sense of its geopolitical standing. 256 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: Wow, this is a really complicated story. I think it's 257 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:11,960 Speaker 1: going to take a couple of explainers to really break 258 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 1: down some various aspects to all of this. Where does 259 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,840 Speaker 1: this leave us now? Though? And give us the sensus 260 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: newsreaders of what we should be looking out for this 261 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,680 Speaker 1: week in this developing international story. 262 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 2: So the thing to look out for is Maduro appearing 263 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: in court for the first time. Beyond that, I guess 264 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: the thing to look at is what does one hundred 265 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 2: days from now it look like, What does even fifty 266 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: days from now look like there is so much uncertainty, 267 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 2: and everyone who I've spoken to who is in Venezuela 268 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: now that they are kind of oscillating between all of 269 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 2: these different emotions because it is so unclear. Will there 270 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 2: just be a continuation of Maduro's power, Will there be 271 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 2: a significant regime change. Will the US end up putting 272 00:14:54,920 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 2: boots on the ground. We don't really have any answers 273 00:14:57,280 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 2: to these questions, and so right now it's too early 274 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 2: to say what happens now. I think another question is 275 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: about international law and whether or not Donald Trump has 276 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,240 Speaker 2: violated that international law. So I think that's something that 277 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 2: the world courts will be looking at. But right now, 278 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: lots of questions, not many answers. 279 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: Well, I think that's our job to start building some 280 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,880 Speaker 1: of those gaps with us all together. You know, some 281 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:23,480 Speaker 1: background in Venezuela could be helpful. Let's talk about oil 282 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,520 Speaker 1: at some point as well. Zara, thanks so much for 283 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: joining us. 284 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 2: Thank you, and thank you for joining us for the 285 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: second episode back this year. We'll be back later this 286 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:34,840 Speaker 2: afternoon with the day's headlines, but until then, have a 287 00:15:34,920 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 2: wonderful day. 288 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden, and I'm a proud Arunda 289 00:15:42,200 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 1: Bunjelung Chalcotin woman from Gadigl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 290 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 291 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 292 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 293 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.