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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, what research tells us really clearly is the competence

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Speaker 2: needs a fragile So if you've got a child who's

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Speaker 2: struggling with their schoolwork, you watch their motivation drop.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they just don't want to be there. They

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Speaker 1: hate it because they don't feel competent. And now here's

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Speaker 1: the stars of our show, my Mum and Dad. Okay, Kylie.

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Speaker 2: On Tuesdays, it's the day that we have a conversation

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Speaker 2: about how we can help other people. Your emails are

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Speaker 2: welcome podcasts at happyfamilies dot com dot you that podcasts

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Speaker 2: with aness at happy families dot com dot you Kylie. Today,

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Speaker 2: our email comes from somebody who's having a kind of

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Speaker 2: tough old time, Lara with a kiddo who's struggling. Let

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Speaker 2: me read this email to you, Hi, Justin and Kylie.

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Speaker 2: Hopefully only a quick question, maybe requiring just a couple

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Speaker 2: of sentences. In response, I just want to pause there, Kylie.

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Speaker 2: Lara thinks that I can give an answer in a

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Speaker 2: couple of sentences.

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Speaker 1: Es. I love your reaction.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Lara says we have reached out to a

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Speaker 2: private psychologist as we struggle to manage.

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Speaker 3: Maybe she just felt you needed clear instructions.

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Speaker 1: Maybe, but it's not going to be a couple of sentences. Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of reading here. Let me say

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Speaker 1: that again.

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Speaker 2: We've reached out to a private psych We're struggling to

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Speaker 2: manage our seven year old's big feelings and behavior. This

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Speaker 2: is an age where we get so many requests from

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Speaker 2: people for help because behavior regulation and an emotional regulation

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Speaker 2: are still not quite cemented. In not quite there, Laura

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Speaker 2: says to me, there's likely an anxious component to her behavior,

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Speaker 2: manifesting in separation, anxiety in school.

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Speaker 1: Reluctance, and so on.

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Speaker 2: Often in the evenings, it's a classic let everything out

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Speaker 2: after being so contained all day, and it includes screaming, shouting,

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Speaker 2: and physical aggression towards us and her brother. Anyway, the

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Speaker 2: question is what language your phrases are best to use

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Speaker 2: to explain to her why we're seeing a psych. I

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Speaker 2: know the psych will have a family system approach and

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Speaker 2: we'll all have sessions, which is good. I don't want

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Speaker 2: it to feel singled out or scapegoated. I want to

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Speaker 2: explain as a positive and helpful thing rather than because

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Speaker 2: anything is.

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Speaker 1: Wrong with her.

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Speaker 2: And that's a great, big thanks with a couple of

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Speaker 2: exclamation marks, Lara. So when I get a message like this, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: when these come through, I love talking to you about it.

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Speaker 2: Because we've now raised six children beyond this age of seven.

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Speaker 2: Our youngest is just over a week beyond her ninth

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Speaker 2: birthday now like a little one is growing up as well,

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Speaker 2: and so we've got a lot of experience, a lot

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Speaker 2: of runs on the board here, but also we've helped

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Speaker 2: so many people with kids at this age. First thing

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Speaker 2: that I want to highlight isn't it great that Lara

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Speaker 2: and her family are getting psychological help. The stigma around

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Speaker 2: psychological help is slowly but surely being eroded. And when

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Speaker 2: we recognize that there are people with skills and understanding

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Speaker 2: and knowledge that can make a difference and we go

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Speaker 2: and ask them for help, it's such a great thing.

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Speaker 2: And also I think teaches kids resilient. So that's the

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Speaker 2: first thing that I wanted to emphasize.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the greatest lessons we can teach

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Speaker 3: our children is that often we don't know the answers

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Speaker 3: to things, and it's okay to not know the answers

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Speaker 3: and to seek out people who do no more than

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Speaker 3: we do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely exactly. Second thing that I wanted to highlight.

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Speaker 2: Based on what's in Lara's email is, and I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that the psychologist is going to work on this, but

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Speaker 2: for the sake of everybody who's participating in listening to

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Speaker 2: our conversation today, when children are lacking motivation, when children

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Speaker 2: are feeling unwell, We've got really good research that I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be making even more explicit when my new

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Speaker 2: book comes out, The Pairing Revolution. But there's really good

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Speaker 2: research that shows that children have three basic psychological needs.

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Speaker 2: When these needs are met, they tend to thrive. They

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Speaker 2: just do so well. They're resilient, they're well, they're motivated,

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Speaker 2: they're happy. But when these needs are not met, and

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Speaker 2: this isn't necessarily parents fault that they're not being mad,

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Speaker 2: the children will struggle, they'll have anxiety, they'll have the press,

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Speaker 2: they'll show up with all kinds of behavioral challenges. And

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Speaker 2: that's really I think an element of what we're seeing

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Speaker 2: here with Lara's little one. So from a research point

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Speaker 2: of view, we would say that they are at basic

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Speaker 2: psychological needs and anyone who's been following along in the

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Speaker 2: Happy Families membership or even here on the podcast for

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Speaker 2: a while will be familiar with these ideas. I've shared

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Speaker 2: them often. The first of these basic psychological needs is

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Speaker 2: a need for relatedness. I need to feel like you belong,

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Speaker 2: like you're seen and heard and valued. And so I'd

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Speaker 2: be wanting to know, does my child, this child who's

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Speaker 2: having these challenges, feel like she belongs at home? Does

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Speaker 2: she feel like she's seen, heard and valued with her siblings?

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Speaker 1: With us as.

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Speaker 2: Parents, do we take the time to really connect and

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Speaker 2: at school, what's happening when it comes to friendships. Maybe

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Speaker 2: there's a bully, Maybe there's a kid who's just, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, making it feel awful.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps she's got a frenemy.

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Speaker 2: A girl or a boy who's a great friend one

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Speaker 2: minute and then says horrible things when her back is turned.

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Speaker 2: Relatedness or relationships are central to well being, and I

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Speaker 2: think it's really important that we can uncover if our

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Speaker 2: child's not doing well, if that's part of the issue.

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Speaker 2: The second one is competence. This is the feeling that

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Speaker 2: I can do stuff. And what research tells us really

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Speaker 2: clearly is that competence needs are fragile. So if you've

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Speaker 2: got a child who's struggling with their schoolwork, you watch

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Speaker 2: their motivation drop. I mean, they just don't want to

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Speaker 2: be there. They hate it because they don't feel competent.

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Speaker 2: And similarly, I guess if it's boring they're over competent

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Speaker 2: that that doesn't feel great either. And the last one

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Speaker 2: is autonomy. So if your children feel like they're being

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Speaker 2: controlled too much, whether it's at home, and I've watched

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Speaker 2: some parents who are just they love their kids so much,

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Speaker 2: but they control every movement that those kids make, or

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Speaker 2: whether it's high levels of control at school, you'll often

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Speaker 2: see these kinds of behaviors, these kinds of outcomes that

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Speaker 2: Lara's talking about, because kids aren't doing well in terms

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Speaker 2: of their competence needs, their relationship needs, or their autonomy needs.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's the second big thing that I

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Speaker 2: would want to emphasize.

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Speaker 3: What summer three.

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Speaker 2: This is something that you and I have really practiced,

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Speaker 2: like really intentionally practiced lately when our kids are upset.

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Speaker 1: What's our standard line?

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Speaker 3: Now, do you want space or you want cuddles?

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Speaker 1: Yes? Pretty much. So I actually learned this from dealing

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Speaker 1: with you.

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Speaker 2: Can I say that without getting in trouble If you

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Speaker 2: were having a bad day, I.

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Speaker 3: Told you, I've given you lots of practice.

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Speaker 2: You have lots and lots of practice, and so if

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Speaker 2: you were having a bad day, I would I learned.

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Speaker 2: It took me about twenty years to learn this, but

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Speaker 2: I learned that the best thing that I could do

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Speaker 2: if you were not in a good mood was not

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Speaker 2: trying to fix it, but instead I would come up

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Speaker 2: to you and say do you want some space?

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Speaker 1: Or do you want me to be close to you?

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Speaker 2: And just me asking you that seemed to bring some

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Speaker 2: equilibrium back to the situation, because you'd actually pause and

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Speaker 2: think what do I want? And sometimes you'd tell me

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Speaker 2: to just leave you alone. You are always gentle about it,

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Speaker 2: and you still are. But you'd say I need some

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Speaker 2: space right now. I'd say sure, I'll come and check

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Speaker 2: it on you in half an hour, and then I'd

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Speaker 2: go and deal with the kids, or go and.

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Speaker 1: Clean up a room other than.

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Speaker 2: The one you were in, or if you often you

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Speaker 2: would say no, I actually need you here, and then

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Speaker 2: we'd maybe go and have a hug, we'd go for

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Speaker 2: a walk, or we'd just chop carrots in the kitchen

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Speaker 2: while you talked to me. But just that one question.

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Speaker 2: You don't even need to go and see a psychologist

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Speaker 2: for this. It says to that kid, I can see you,

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Speaker 2: I can see your distress.

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Speaker 1: I'm here for you if you need me.

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Speaker 3: Will you talk about that needing, that sense of autonomy

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Speaker 3: and you know, lack of control? Yeah, if your child

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Speaker 3: is feeling or whoever is feeling like they don't have

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Speaker 3: a lot of control in their space, then that one

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Speaker 3: question gives them absolute control.

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Speaker 1: It does.

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Speaker 3: They get to make a decision in that moment. And

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Speaker 3: I think for me, having gone through that process multiple

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Speaker 3: times with you, it was that sense of I get

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Speaker 3: to choose this. You're not forcing yourself onto me or

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Speaker 3: into my space. I actually get to decide do I

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Speaker 3: want you in my space right now or do I

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Speaker 3: need time to process what's going on for me before

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Speaker 3: I include somebody else in that.

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Speaker 2: I'm laughing because it is actually a decision sometimes, isn't.

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Speaker 2: Its like do I like you enough right now? It's

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Speaker 2: not even about liking, but it's kind of like based

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Speaker 2: on where I'm at, can I handle having you near me?

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Speaker 2: Or do I just need to be left alone.

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Speaker 3: If I can be brutally honest, it comes down to

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Speaker 3: the fact that am I going to have to manage

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Speaker 3: your emotions as well as mine based on what we're

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Speaker 3: dealing with? And if I'm not in a position where

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Speaker 3: I can even cope with my emotions, then trying to

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Speaker 3: manage yours on top of that and how you feel

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Speaker 3: about whatever's going on as well is overwhelming. So it's

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Speaker 3: actually has very little to do with you as a

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Speaker 3: person and more to do with the emotions that you

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Speaker 3: will then bring into my space.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I love the way though that you've emphasized, and this

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Speaker 2: is I think the critical thing. It's such a great

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Speaker 2: way to respect your child's autonomy. You're basically saying, where

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Speaker 2: are you up to? I'm here to support you. I'm

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Speaker 2: not here to tell you how to feel. I'm not

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Speaker 2: here to fix things. I'm here if you want me.

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Speaker 2: And I guess that's the other thing. When you then

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Speaker 2: choose to say, oh, yeah, I want you to stay

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Speaker 2: with me, you then open yourself up to my presence

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Speaker 2: and a conversation with me. Like you become we become involved.

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Speaker 2: The relationship needs starts to build as well, and that's

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Speaker 2: this is when a sensitive parent will say, Okay, you've

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Speaker 2: chosen to have me with you. My job is not

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Speaker 2: to fix you, is not to tell you what to do.

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Speaker 2: It's just to say, great, well, I'm here for you.

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Speaker 3: Well, then the next question that usually follows that is

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Speaker 3: do you want to talk or do you just want

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Speaker 3: me to hold you?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, exactly, and.

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Speaker 3: Again allowing me to make a decision at that point

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Speaker 3: about whether or not we're going to engage in there

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Speaker 3: or whether I'm just going to sit in this space

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Speaker 3: with you for a time until I feel more comfortable

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Speaker 3: to share.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So the fourth thing that I want to bring up,

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Speaker 2: and there are only five, so we're nearly there with

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Speaker 2: Lara's conversation. The fourth thing I want to bring up

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Speaker 2: is Lara's little one is seven, and it's just a

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Speaker 2: useful reminder, I think for every parent to rem that,

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Speaker 2: just because your kids, especially if you're oldest, they get

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Speaker 2: to seven and you're like, oh, they're so big, Like

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Speaker 2: I remember when they were two or three, they were so.

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Speaker 1: Little there and they're seven. Now, you can have.

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Speaker 3: Logical conversations with them, you can reason.

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Speaker 2: They've got opinions and they know that you're wrong, and

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Speaker 2: they're right, they're really hard work. But as parents are

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Speaker 2: now of three adult children and another one who's in

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Speaker 2: grade ten, not to mention the two little ones. Seven

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Speaker 2: is so little, isn't it? Like seven is just a

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Speaker 2: baby in comparison to in comparison to the big kids,

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Speaker 2: and from a developmental point of view, what psychological research

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Speaker 2: tells us is that when it comes to coping skills,

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Speaker 2: when it comes to behavior regulation, emotion regulation, these things

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Speaker 2: are still developing, and how we approach these situations with

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Speaker 2: our kids it really sets the stage for how well

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Speaker 2: these things develop as time goes by. So definitely worth

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Speaker 2: highlighting coping skills and regulation still very much under development

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Speaker 2: at this age. We don't need to be putting too

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Speaker 2: much pressure on them to act like they've got full

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Speaker 2: regulatory capacity at the age of seven when they won't

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Speaker 2: have it for a number of years. Yet they certainly

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Speaker 2: get much better at it through seven, eight, nine, ten,

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Speaker 2: but it's still a process.

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Speaker 3: What was your last one?

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Speaker 2: Okay, the last one is actually answering this specific question

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Speaker 2: that Lara asked, which is, what do we say to

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Speaker 2: our child we're about to go and see a psychologist.

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Speaker 2: What do we say and my answer is actually really

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Speaker 2: really simple, and it kind of aligns with what Lara

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Speaker 2: said in her email. Her line was, how do we

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Speaker 2: have this conversation so that she doesn't feel singled out

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Speaker 2: or scapegoat it. I wanted to explain it as a

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Speaker 2: positive and helpful thing rather than because anything's wrong with her,

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Speaker 2: And so the best way to do it is to

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Speaker 2: normalize it and say, you know what he was, People

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Speaker 2: go and see psychologists and counselors. Like if we jumped

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Speaker 2: onto Google and how to look at how many psychologists

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Speaker 2: and counselors are in our area, there would be about

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Speaker 2: ten thousand. Like, there are a lot of people who

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Speaker 2: do this kind of work because there's a lot of

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Speaker 2: demand for it. There's lots and lots of people who

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Speaker 2: just want to talk to a psychologist to get some

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Speaker 2: balance and to pull things in order.

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Speaker 1: So that would be the first thing that I would.

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Speaker 3: Say, Yeah, I think that it's really important that we

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Speaker 3: teach our kids that it's okay to ask for help.

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Speaker 3: And if it was me in that situation, I would

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Speaker 3: be acknowledging that right now I'm a little bit lost

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Speaker 3: as a parent to know how to best support you

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Speaker 3: and our family as a whole. I don't know how

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Speaker 3: to do all of this, and so the best way

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Speaker 3: I know how to support you is to find somebody

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Speaker 3: who knows more than I do.

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Speaker 2: And if you watch TV and you watch a show

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Speaker 2: like The Voice or Idol or something like that, you've

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Speaker 2: got this real life experience where you've got people who

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Speaker 2: are on the TV who are brilliant singers who are

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Speaker 2: progressing through these rounds, and you know how they get

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Speaker 2: from one round to the next. You know how they

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Speaker 2: get better as singers. They sit down with someone who

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Speaker 2: teaches them. You've got coaches on these shows who are

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Speaker 2: helping them to become better singers, and I think just

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Speaker 2: teaching them the principle that the process of change number

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Speaker 2: one is hard at rick wise work number two, it

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Speaker 2: often requires somebody who's already really good at it to

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Speaker 2: help you to get good.

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Speaker 1: At it as well.

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Speaker 2: And a psychologist is just like a coach for your feelings.

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Speaker 2: And by talking through that kind of a process, that

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Speaker 2: kind of idea, we're going to see if we can

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Speaker 2: make things better, and we're going to go and see

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Speaker 2: someone who's really good at it, because they're going to

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Speaker 2: help us to get.

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Speaker 1: Good at it.

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Speaker 2: Just like if you want to improve your tennis game,

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Speaker 2: or if you want to improve your soccer game, or

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Speaker 2: if you want to approve whatever it is that you're doing,

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Speaker 2: you get a coach and the coach.

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Speaker 1: Will help you to get better.

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Speaker 2: That's I think the easiest way to frame it for

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Speaker 2: little kids or even big kids, or even partners.

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Speaker 1: To be on board with going and getting a little

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Speaker 1: bit of help. It's okay, It's okay.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rowland from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is the executive producer of the podcast. Lara,

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Speaker 2: we hope that we answered your question helpfully and any

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Speaker 2: other parents who are looking at these same kind of issues.

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Speaker 1: Hopefully that has been useful for you as well.

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Speaker 2: If you'd like more information about how you can make

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Speaker 2: your family happier, we would love for you to visit

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Speaker 2: us at Happy families dot com dot AU. Quick reminder

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Speaker 2: as well, the Raising Resilient Kids Summit is on in

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Speaker 2: just over two weeks. You can get your tickets for

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Speaker 2: that at our Facebook page Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families