Speaker 1: Get a Pete Hally He welcome to you Ain't seen
Speaker 1: nothing yet? The movie podcast where I chat to a
Speaker 1: movie lover about a classical love film they haven't quite
Speaker 1: got around to watching until now. And today's guest actor
Speaker 1: author poet Mike Brendan Cow.
Speaker 2: You ever dance from the Devil of the Dale of Light?
Speaker 1: I'm walking ahead, walking.
Speaker 3: Ahead of all the gin joints in all the towns
Speaker 3: in all the world.
Speaker 2: She walks into mines.
Speaker 1: Haven't any rife?
Speaker 4: No, you ain't seen nothing new.
Speaker 1: One of the lovely things about sticking around long enough
Speaker 1: in this crazy business is you sometimes become mates with
Speaker 1: someone you're a fan of, and that happened with today's
Speaker 1: guest and me, Brendan Cow. Between two thousand and four
Speaker 1: and two thousand and seven, my wife and I fell
Speaker 1: in love with the Australian series Loved My Way. Brendan
Speaker 1: was a massive part of the show's success, not only
Speaker 1: with his betrayal of Tom, but he also wrote on
Speaker 1: the series, which set a new benchmark for screenplays on
Speaker 1: Australian television. I urge you if you haven't checked out
Speaker 1: Loved My Way, it will break your heart. It'll make
Speaker 1: you cry. It will make you laugh as well. It
Speaker 1: is absolutely brilliant. Brendan has continued to put his unique
Speaker 1: stamp on stage, screen, and indeed literature. Brendan has a
Speaker 1: main line into the suburban Australian male experience his playturn
Speaker 1: movie Reuben Guthrie, which starred Peter the plum Lum, who
Speaker 1: is beginning to feel the effects of age and concussion.
Speaker 1: And when he begins interacting with the great poets of history,
Speaker 1: he has given a chance to change his life. Only
Speaker 1: he can just somehow muster enough courage to do so.
Speaker 1: I cannot recommend this book anymore. Brendan's credits also include
Speaker 1: Game of Thrones, Avatar, to Noise, the and with Francis
Speaker 1: O'Connor and Harriet Walter. Brandon is emotionally present as a
Speaker 1: crystal clear social insight is hilarious and bloody stokes to
Speaker 1: have my mate with me today? Gooday.
Speaker 3: My name's Brendan cow And my three favorite films are
Speaker 3: The Blues Brothers, Wake In Fright.
Speaker 2: And Punch Druck Love.
Speaker 3: And up until this week, I had not seen broadcast news.
Speaker 1: A TV anchor, man and news reporter and a producer
Speaker 1: are living their perfect lives. They've gotten exactly what they've
Speaker 1: wanted ever since they were kids working on a big
Speaker 1: news network in New York. But now that they are adults,
Speaker 1: can they get what they really want? Or will the
Speaker 1: burden of their own ambitions cost them? It all a
Speaker 1: classic love triangle, combining substance and style in ways few achieved.
Speaker 1: Broadcast News released in nineteen eighty seven, is romantic and comedic,
Speaker 1: but not quite a romantic comedy. Holy Hunter. William Hurt
Speaker 1: and Albert Brooks are dynamite in this funny, smart dramedy
Speaker 1: about professionals who can't stop getting in each other's and
Speaker 1: their own way. All three actors were nominated for an Oscar.
Speaker 1: All three sadly lost. James L. Brooks comes off terms
Speaker 1: of endearment and rights and directs this gem, which was
Speaker 1: nominated for a total of seven Oscars. Sadly no wins.
Speaker 1: Brennan CaAl, Have you ever sweated that much throughout any
Speaker 1: performance in your life?
Speaker 3: Wasn't that amazing? I mean the sweat, the sweat coming
Speaker 3: out of his head. I was just thinking, how did
Speaker 3: they create that? Did they have some kind of little
Speaker 3: balloon that released water? Because there was these thip thick drips,
Speaker 3: wasn't it.
Speaker 1: It was like and it was not perfectly timed creative
Speaker 1: when they cut back to him when they kind of
Speaker 1: fixed him up, they kind of mopped him up a
Speaker 1: little bit, and then a couple of seconds and then
Speaker 1: there it is. So I was saying the same thing.
Speaker 1: I thought the makeup makeup should have been nominated for
Speaker 1: an Oscar.
Speaker 2: I was phenomenal.
Speaker 3: I don't know how they did it, like that Billie
Speaker 3: Eilish film clip where the black ink comes out of
Speaker 3: our eyes and you see in the inner documentary how
Speaker 3: they did that, and it's just amazing.
Speaker 2: They must have had something. But you know, we.
Speaker 3: Always lord actors for whether they can cry on cue,
Speaker 3: and perhaps we need to switch our attention to anyone
Speaker 3: can cry on cute?
Speaker 2: That's easy. Who can sweat?
Speaker 1: Who can sweat? Yeah, like that's the next level.
Speaker 2: Who can drop a leader from the forehead?
Speaker 1: Well, Albert Brooks obviously? Is there somebody now that you
Speaker 1: if you had to pin your life on somebody backing
Speaker 1: somebody in to sweat on cue? Christian Bale?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Christian Bale, who they said he's done every transformation
Speaker 3: in Hollywood other than get shorter.
Speaker 2: You know, pretty much. That's the only part he's got left,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: And Christian Bale's got this park he's three foot, he's
Speaker 3: three ft, he's just done it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got shot. Well do you know how he
Speaker 2: got short? I have no idea.
Speaker 1: Well Brad Pitt did that. Benjamin Button somehow manage that
Speaker 1: so it has been done.
Speaker 2: Was extraordinary in this film.
Speaker 3: And he's such an interesting because in the rom com setup,
Speaker 3: you know, it's often he's the guy, you know, that
Speaker 3: that you kind of hope that they're with, and then
Speaker 3: there's the sexy guy that might not hang around that
Speaker 3: they're drawn to, and and it was kind of flipped
Speaker 3: in this movie.
Speaker 2: Well, William Hurts the kind of.
Speaker 3: Morally dubious and command and this guy is the good guy,
Speaker 3: but he's actually a little scary in the way that
Speaker 3: he loves it. So I love the way they kind
Speaker 3: of subverted the rom com tradition.
Speaker 1: There are so many I think brilliant choices James L.
Speaker 1: Brooks makes, and the screenplay level, and then at the
Speaker 1: directing level, and we'll get to all of that because
Speaker 1: there is so much to talk about this with this movie.
Speaker 1: Why hadn't well, why did you nominate I know there's
Speaker 1: a few movies you nominated. Yeah, and you said which ones,
Speaker 1: And I think I came up with two that you
Speaker 1: were on the list. I think Paper Moon might have
Speaker 1: been the other one in Broadcast News. Why hadn't you
Speaker 1: seen broadcasting and what did you know about it?
Speaker 3: I think the other one was Lord of the Rings
Speaker 3: that I was and I think I tried to watch
Speaker 3: that and I got forty minutes in.
Speaker 2: I'm like, they haven't even left the cave.
Speaker 3: Bago Baggins or whatever his name is, Bill Goo Bogans,
Speaker 3: They're still in the bloody cave.
Speaker 2: Forty five minutes in, I am and I fell as,
Speaker 2: I'm out of here. Rings. Yeah, well, there's not it.
Speaker 2: Where's the Ring? There's nothing crazy happening.
Speaker 1: You nominated that a while ago, and I was like,
Speaker 1: and I was up for it, and I think we
Speaker 1: should definitely.
Speaker 2: I've been shooting in New Zealand.
Speaker 3: I've gone on so many tours of wedder and stuff
Speaker 3: and they're like, this is where the famous Sword of Thing.
Speaker 3: I'm like, oh yeah, and they look at me like
Speaker 3: you should be blown away. You're touching the sword of
Speaker 3: the Thing of Gandalf, Like it's a good sword mate,
Speaker 3: Well well done, Kevin.
Speaker 2: Did you build that? Did you? You know? I'm hungry.
Speaker 1: I don't know how you were able to film in
Speaker 1: New Zealand for two years and not have seen Lord
Speaker 1: of the Rings. I know. It's an incredible achievement.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: It is.
Speaker 2: It is maybe my finest.
Speaker 1: Possibly now you've got some credits. You've got some credits, yes,
Speaker 1: so broadcast news.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you why. I've never seen it, never heard
Speaker 3: of it. Really, I'd never heard of it. And when
Speaker 3: I look through that, I thought, is this like Network
Speaker 3: or maybe I've you know, It's one of those movies
Speaker 3: you get twenty minutes in you went, oh, watch this
Speaker 3: with dad when I was ten, watching this at Yuni
Speaker 3: studied it, you know, and you go, okay, you know,
Speaker 3: like I watched The Last Supper again the other day. Oh,
Speaker 3: I've seen the Last Supper and the movie starts to
Speaker 3: remind you. But I drank so much in my thirties,
Speaker 3: I can't remember most of the things that I've done
Speaker 3: or seeing, you know what I mean. So I was like,
Speaker 3: but I've never seen it, and I couldn't believe it,
Speaker 3: and that was what was so exciting. Well, this podcast
Speaker 3: is so great. It's like I just get to experience it.
Speaker 3: I didn't read up anything. I just pressed plays, sat back,
Speaker 3: turned the phone off and when it hit me and
Speaker 3: it was just beautiful, so funny. And the connections which
Speaker 3: you can't buy with rom coms. The connection between Holly
Speaker 3: Hunter and William hurt In it is palpable, and where
Speaker 3: that which guy's better option and her kind of situation
Speaker 3: that she's in, being this high powered, slightly anxious producer,
Speaker 3: and what it means to her to choose either of
Speaker 3: those men.
Speaker 2: It was really real.
Speaker 1: The casting is brilliant. And what I suspect has happened
Speaker 1: with me with broadcast news is I tried to watch
Speaker 1: it around the time it came out, certainly none of
Speaker 1: the cinema. I mean, I was my favorite film I
Speaker 1: think comes out of that year. It was really just
Speaker 1: playing strains and automobiles, well my favorite comedy. The fact
Speaker 1: that this was an adult, you know, dealing with their
Speaker 1: own neuroses wasn't really capturing my attention. I reckon. What
Speaker 1: I did is I tried to watch it maybe on
Speaker 1: video or even when it was on TV, and I
Speaker 1: couldn't quite It didn't hold my attention because I do
Speaker 1: remember and maybe this has just been replayed over the years.
Speaker 1: The famous in my mind is famous Joan Cuzak running
Speaker 1: through and diving under the filing cabinet and an amazing scene.
Speaker 2: Hitting a knee on the water fountain and yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So there were parts throughout it that were familiar
Speaker 1: to me, but I had no idea where it was going.
Speaker 1: So it was a lovely I guess rewatch or I've
Speaker 1: really felt like I was watching it for the first time.
Speaker 1: So there's so much to talk about with broadcastings. I
Speaker 1: want to talk about your three excellent nominations. I think
Speaker 1: officially Blues Brothers has gone past Princess Bright as the
Speaker 1: most nominated favorite film in this podcast. Now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I thought, come on, be edgier than that.
Speaker 3: Choose a subtitles one show that you're d Then I thought,
Speaker 3: you know what, this is movie that I've watched most
Speaker 3: in the world, because when I was I think twelve
Speaker 3: to twenty, I think I watched it two hundred times,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean two hundred, Like I just it
Speaker 3: was just kind of always on and when Sean Batman
Speaker 3: my best mart you know, primise, like whenever, it was
Speaker 3: just have Blues Brothers on It was just on and
Speaker 3: I knew every single line from it. And it was
Speaker 3: also when I was developing a passion for blues music
Speaker 3: that I just couldn't believe how good the music was.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of wild. Those movies in the nineties,
Speaker 3: like that Ferris Bueller movies and Say Anythings and those
Speaker 3: color you know, the sixteen Can some of those movies
Speaker 3: all of a sudden, you know, Blues Brothers and Ferris
Speaker 3: Bueller both suddenly are these tiny movies that then break
Speaker 3: into song and the whole city is in a dance piece,
Speaker 3: you know, Ferris Bueller, the Beatles song shakesa twister, shower
Speaker 3: and then and then it just goes back to them
Speaker 3: in the car, and you could do that in those
Speaker 3: nineties movies, and Blues Brothers just has that with you know,
Speaker 3: Ray Charles, shake tail feather, all of a sudden, that
Speaker 3: was city's dancing. Then you're back in the car. But
Speaker 3: those two actors together unbelievable. The love story, the adventure.
Speaker 3: Suddenly you've got Nazis chasing them. It was completely bonkers.
Speaker 3: It's an adventure, but it's a sibling story. Aretha Franklin's
Speaker 3: in it. It's it's incredible and wild that it even happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, there's a great book that I think I've
Speaker 1: mentioned a couple of times when whenever Blues Brothers gets mentioned,
Speaker 1: which I recommend to you and to anyone listening, called
Speaker 1: Wild and Crazy Guys, and it's about that generations focuses
Speaker 1: on like Belushi, Ackroyd, Chevy Chase, Eddie Murphy and Bill Murray,
Speaker 1: I think, the Ones and Steve Mauttin. Yes, so, and
Speaker 1: the focus is on there, like transition from Saturday Night
Speaker 1: Live to movies becoming movie stars, and it's it's a
Speaker 1: it's a great it's a great read. It was on
Speaker 1: the other it is one of those movies for me,
Speaker 1: it's like Princess Bright. It doesn't quite hold the same
Speaker 1: emotional real estate in my heart. And then a lot
Speaker 1: of obviously friends and movie lovers, but I really, I
Speaker 1: really love it. And when I watch it, I don't
Speaker 1: necessarily watched it. If it's on, I always watch, always
Speaker 1: watch it until the next set piece. For example, the
Speaker 1: other I watched it and it's well's coming up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll watch Aretha.
Speaker 3: And I know the bits like I know when Belushi
Speaker 3: looks at the camera in the shopping mall, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean, right on the drum beat, it looks
Speaker 3: at the camera like when the car crashes into the
Speaker 3: makeup store, and like, I know, all these funny little
Speaker 3: blueberry bits and I you know, and and the Peter
Speaker 3: Gunn thing boooo.
Speaker 2: It's just like unbelievable right at the end.
Speaker 3: And they finally get to that bank for the end
Speaker 3: up the car chase and which I often feel like
Speaker 3: this car but they get out of the car and
Speaker 3: then the car goes. The car just crumbles, yeah, and
Speaker 3: they look at it and go, yeah, fair enough. But
Speaker 3: also such great timing and comedy in that movie and
Speaker 3: four hole fried chickens and a coke and all that stuff, you.
Speaker 1: Know, And the car chase is legitimate, like it is.
Speaker 1: It is up there with French connection and bullet and yeah,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: And Princess Leia trying to shoot him with the berzooka
Speaker 3: in the tunnel because she loves him.
Speaker 1: I remember I hadn't Twiggy. I remember, well, I hadn't
Speaker 1: seen it for such a long time, Twiggers.
Speaker 3: And then I was like, oh ship, that's princes Layer,
Speaker 3: princess in love with John belus. She's got out of prison,
Speaker 3: she's waiting for him, and because he yeah, they have history,
Speaker 3: she goes to shoot.
Speaker 2: Him with a cannon in the tunnel.
Speaker 1: When what he was his brothers made you know. So
Speaker 1: this is post Star Wars, wasn't it. It was Star
Speaker 1: Wars seventy seven. Yeah, incredible waking fight. We we discussed
Speaker 1: this with Ross Noble. Really great chatter about Ross about
Speaker 1: waking for it.
Speaker 2: I was more original, No.
Speaker 1: No, but no, that's he was watching for the first time.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if anyone's nominated as the as their
Speaker 1: favorite film. I love this film and I love watching
Speaker 1: it again. I had seen it and I love watching
Speaker 1: it again. For that episode. What a punch to the
Speaker 1: Australian male psyche that.
Speaker 3: Is, yeah, which you know is on brand for me,
Speaker 3: if not my brand. So I'm kind of envious to
Speaker 3: this movie and also the fact that you just couldn't
Speaker 3: make it again. I mean the kangaroo sequence, the reu
Speaker 3: hunting sequence that you go, is this really taking place?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Right now, it's funny you hit the director talk
Speaker 1: about it now and I think he's he's playing his cards,
Speaker 1: got a little bit close to his chest. So he's not.
Speaker 1: He's kind of saying, oh, we obviously we shot it differently,
Speaker 1: like because the idea is that they went and shot
Speaker 1: that the kangaroo's being slaughtered on an actual kangaroo like
Speaker 1: culing thing. So the shots and then the shots are
Speaker 1: shot separately and the reverse shots which we will get
Speaker 1: to during broadcast news obviously, but so it's done separately.
Speaker 1: But it's still can't get away from the fact. I mean,
Speaker 1: and there's two issues, isn't It is one that you
Speaker 1: can talk about. The issue is like, is that should
Speaker 1: we should sinly be going those areas and having that.
Speaker 1: But then there's the the visceral response you have as
Speaker 1: an audience when you disregard that and kind of go
Speaker 1: wow that that is fucking full on. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And then when they finish that, they go back to
Speaker 3: a pub and they get drunk and they kind of
Speaker 3: have the most homo erotic bar fight. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: and the whole thing is homo erotic between these men
Speaker 3: that they can't have sex with each other. So they
Speaker 3: go out into the wild and they challenge kangaroos and
Speaker 3: then they fight each other and it's so hot and
Speaker 3: so sweaty, and he kind of does go home with
Speaker 3: the doctor who says I'm the local doctor and alcohol,
Speaker 3: you know, and the what.
Speaker 2: The globe is swinging and you're like, what exactly happened
Speaker 2: on that mattress that night after the fight?
Speaker 1: How good is They're also good? Donald Pleasants is just
Speaker 1: same performance. It is just remarkable. But he's where is
Speaker 1: it at a bell and Gabba? But what's the town
Speaker 1: called the Yabba? The Yabba?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: An English school teacher trying to get to the city
Speaker 3: to meet this girl that he keeps having fantasies about
Speaker 3: whether she exists or not, who knows, and he, you know,
Speaker 3: starts his game of two up, thinking it's harmless, gets
Speaker 3: a bit into it, suddenly loses money.
Speaker 2: He's stuck.
Speaker 3: The pub's only got men in it, you know, the
Speaker 3: cops drinking four beers at once.
Speaker 2: Everyone just chips Jeep's.
Speaker 3: Rafferty and suddenly he's out on He's like, I'm stuck here,
Speaker 3: and he just starts to lose his sanity, which I
Speaker 3: imagine is what would happen to an englishman out in
Speaker 3: the middle of Australia after a while, you know, and
Speaker 3: what's real and what's not? Starts to kind of dissolve
Speaker 3: in his head as he becomes more and more carnal
Speaker 3: and starts to realize he ain't going to get that
Speaker 3: beach fantasy with the girl. He's going to have to
Speaker 3: do it here tonight, you know.
Speaker 1: And and he's probably never get getting out.
Speaker 2: He's never getting out, and you can't.
Speaker 1: It reminded me that when I watched it. I went
Speaker 1: and saw Parasite not long after in the cinema son,
Speaker 1: and I just said to my son, I said, they
Speaker 1: make really I want, I want you to watch this
Speaker 1: film because and I hadn't seen it, but I said,
Speaker 1: you know, it was literally just out in cinemas, and
Speaker 1: I said, they do things very differently the way the
Speaker 1: Americans do cinema. Look at the opening scene without knowing
Speaker 1: what it was, and I guarantee you it'll say something
Speaker 1: about what this movie is about. And it does. It's
Speaker 1: that basement kind of half basement shot. And I thought
Speaker 1: of that because when I watched Wake in Fright, the
Speaker 1: opening shot is that kind of three sick this shit
Speaker 1: they do you know of that that town, and it
Speaker 1: just for me, that just foreshadows the this guy's in
Speaker 1: a loop.
Speaker 3: And well he wakes up he's going to get druck
Speaker 3: thinking I'm there. Yeah, I mean Sidney's like.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I in yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, and it's like, yeah, Australia, you can't leave.
Speaker 1: You can't.
Speaker 2: We got your buddy. So settling, settling, And and.
Speaker 3: Part of the argument is the best films about Australia
Speaker 3: are made from outside directors.
Speaker 2: Walk about, wake and fright.
Speaker 1: You know. And he's the Canadian director. Yeah yeah, and.
Speaker 3: I mean the director made Weekend Bernie's You believe that
Speaker 3: is it is because they come in Australia and go, you.
Speaker 2: Guys are crazy. You know, this place is mad, it's
Speaker 2: really hot, You're all really weird.
Speaker 3: You're disconnected with the original inhabitants of this land, Like
Speaker 3: what is going on here? You drink forty beers a
Speaker 3: day and you think it's normal and we can't say
Speaker 3: They were like, oh, yeah, this is We're just doing
Speaker 3: the thing, and outside directors come in and going.
Speaker 2: You guys are nuts. We're going to make a film
Speaker 2: about it, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So for those who aren't really aware of it, one,
Speaker 1: I think the Paldi or yeah, in car it's based.
Speaker 2: On a book based on Lacey can.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that sounds roughly right now and then, and
Speaker 1: it didn't do big business outside of France. The French
Speaker 1: loved it, yeah, and then it just disappeared. They lost
Speaker 1: the print and they only found the print in like
Speaker 1: and they restored it, but only about twelve years ago.
Speaker 3: So it's right because they started to release it on
Speaker 3: thirty five again in like the cremorn Orphium in Sydney,
Speaker 3: and I did a quote for the book for the
Speaker 3: re release of the book, so they must have had
Speaker 3: a resurgence.
Speaker 2: Of the book and the film. Yeah, they can get
Speaker 2: your hands on it.
Speaker 3: I've got a really good original poster of it in
Speaker 3: my place in London.
Speaker 2: It is just priceless and Australia. It's Australia in a
Speaker 2: movie to me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and it was well when I made Ruben Guthrie,
Speaker 3: that's what I tried to kind of work on that time,
Speaker 3: kind of just a wild, hilarious but kind of ominous.
Speaker 1: Kind of like that's really interesting.
Speaker 3: Actually, Yeah, I when I want that unsettling yet hilarious set,
Speaker 3: like a holy shit, what's going on in the waters here?
Speaker 1: Feeling well Ruben Guthrie because it's it's you can look
Speaker 1: at waken fright and kind of go, that's them and
Speaker 1: that's the outback and that's what they do out there.
Speaker 1: And what is great about Ruben Guthrie, and what I
Speaker 1: really connected with it is that, oh no, this is
Speaker 1: this happens in our cities, in our in our suburbs,
Speaker 1: in our households. You know that that that pool of light.
Speaker 1: You're not going to stop drinking, are you, mate?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Your dad doing that too.
Speaker 3: Just have one and and and that's what some of
Speaker 3: the criticism of Ruben Guthrie was, Oh, a white, middle
Speaker 3: class advertising guy with drinking probably, And I'm like, no, no,
Speaker 3: But that's the point is there's no reason for this
Speaker 3: guy to be this way.
Speaker 2: You know that that it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: You know, this is how it is in Australia, and
Speaker 3: I wanted to show that that it's not just about
Speaker 3: having a bad news story. And you know, and and
Speaker 3: from a difficult place, this is in built even with privilege.
Speaker 1: You know what a fight club's almost about, isn't it.
Speaker 1: It's like Damien Power made a good point that you know,
Speaker 1: it's important that those characters in fight club are white
Speaker 1: and in middle class, because that's that is the point.
Speaker 2: And succession, you know, all those kind of Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said Punks Drunk Love. We will be
Speaker 1: doing Boogie Nights this series with Beck Childhood and Mith
Speaker 1: Forhurs had a great chat about Magnolia that was one
Speaker 1: of her favorite films, but nobody yet has nominated Punch
Speaker 1: Drunk Love, and I still don't know. I love Paul
Speaker 1: Thomas Anderson so much that I still I can't completely
Speaker 1: commit to which one is my favorite film, but Puns
Speaker 1: Drunk Love is definitely in the conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, I'm glad you feel that way because I
Speaker 3: did too. And everyone's so hardcore with Magnolia and Boogie Knights, which.
Speaker 2: I think he was twenty nine when he made Boogie Knights.
Speaker 1: The Bastard incredible like and.
Speaker 3: But something about Punch Drunk Love. Adam Sandler in the
Speaker 3: lead role, who knew this is not a silly movie,
Speaker 3: and he just holds the emotional gravitas of this really
Speaker 3: disturbing film about falling in love.
Speaker 2: I just love this guy because he tells it the
Speaker 2: way it is.
Speaker 5: He's not a phony, and these and these guys, and
Speaker 5: this guy calls up and he's talking about his senior
Speaker 5: and so TJ.
Speaker 2: Justice says, what was your senior pool? What was all
Speaker 2: great about it? He says, I.
Speaker 5: Stole an ancient proverb and so he says okay, and
Speaker 5: he says confusion. Say DJ Justice is confusion or confusions,
Speaker 5: And it was just so comical if DJ Justic just
Speaker 5: cut you down the sides. You know, that's that's my
Speaker 5: favorite part of the show. I laugh, I laugh and
Speaker 5: laugh even when I'm alone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, you've got other movies like Blue
Speaker 3: is the warms color that make you go feel sick
Speaker 3: with that falling in love feeling.
Speaker 2: You know that it's it's it's so pleasant, it's unpleasant.
Speaker 2: The first love, you.
Speaker 3: Know, and the harmonium falling off the truck out the
Speaker 3: front of the warehouse in this weird spontaneous crash that
Speaker 3: makes no sense. And then this harmonium comes into the
Speaker 3: building and Adam Sandler starts pressing the buttons on it, going,
Speaker 3: what is this?
Speaker 2: That's love?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: And that's what I love about What PTA does is
Speaker 3: his films not only tell the story of something, the
Speaker 3: film itself embodies it in music, form and structure. You know,
Speaker 3: the movie is love. When they're at the height of
Speaker 3: their love, where do they go Hawaii? Yeah, because when
Speaker 3: you're in love, Pta, like they said to Pta, why do.
Speaker 2: You go to Hawaiian? And goes, well, you know, when
Speaker 2: you're in love, everything's Hawaii, you know.
Speaker 3: And Adam Sandler has that line. He looks around and
Speaker 3: he goes, it's just so Hawaiian, and it's true. You know,
Speaker 3: love is a Hawaiian street festival. And they were Lucky
Speaker 3: Palel when they were shooting the street festivals on they went,
Speaker 3: oh my god, this is ridiculous. And you've got their
Speaker 3: moving through it and that's what it's like. Nothing can
Speaker 3: go wrong and you're in love at that early stage,
Speaker 3: you know. And the soundtrack to this is spectacular. I
Speaker 3: love the fact he's got all those sisters because I've
Speaker 3: got two sisters and you know, and they have these
Speaker 3: opinions on what's wrong with you and everything, and even
Speaker 3: in the you know, in the warehouse, the forklift, the walls,
Speaker 3: the boxes, everything falling over and unsteady, you know, and
Speaker 3: everywhere he looks that's love too, you know. And then
Speaker 3: Phillips my Hoffmann he represents the past, which is when
Speaker 3: you fall in love, some shit might come and take
Speaker 3: it away that you used to do that you did once,
Speaker 3: and there's phone calls that might come and they might
Speaker 3: find out about who you truly are and how you
Speaker 3: didn't treat someone well or your own money or whatever.
Speaker 2: You and you're like, no, I've changed, I've changed. I've changed. Like, no,
Speaker 2: you haven't.
Speaker 1: There's an a strange cricket captain who might want to
Speaker 1: check out Punchtruck Love at the moment. But seriously hard,
Speaker 1: sorryto biography, there's a lot of pain there.
Speaker 2: Anyway. What is the opposite of that hilariously hard.
Speaker 1: Hilariously hilariously hard, very fluid? Is I'm hilariously hard anyway?
Speaker 1: Punstrung Love. What I love about puns Strung Love is
Speaker 1: that Adam Sandler's character is hiding away. He's hiding away
Speaker 1: in that warehouse, and that that harmonic what do you
Speaker 1: call it.
Speaker 2: I think it's a weird organ.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that comes to him, Emily Watson comes to him.
Speaker 1: He's not out looking for love, he's playing. He almost
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like he's deserving of it, I feel, you know.
Speaker 1: And then and his sisters, you know, pushing him into
Speaker 1: like meet this, you know, they bring Emily Watson to him.
Speaker 1: So it's like when you are watching a wedding speech
Speaker 1: made by you know, the father of the bride, and
Speaker 1: it's completely against everything in his fiber to get up
Speaker 1: in front of two hundred people. And those moments make
Speaker 1: me anytime I see his speech, I don't necessarily want
Speaker 1: to see people like me. I don't want to see
Speaker 1: comedian making speech at the wedding. I don't want to
Speaker 1: go see the guy who's like, you know, the funny
Speaker 1: guy in the group. I mean, you know, I have
Speaker 1: a laugh. And but what I love, what gets me,
Speaker 1: what punches me, and what pulls my heart strings, is
Speaker 1: a discomfort of like going this has taken me, This
Speaker 1: has taken courage for me to write these words and
Speaker 1: now have to perform. And the hands are shaking, And
Speaker 1: that's Adam Sandler throughout punstrung love that when they go
Speaker 1: on a date. And I had the absolute pleasure. And
Speaker 1: I think I've mentioned it on my podcast. I forget
Speaker 1: what I mentioned when I haven't. I had the absolute
Speaker 1: One of my bucket list moments was I had dinner
Speaker 1: with poor Thomas Anderson and our friend Joel Perlman, and
Speaker 1: and I was like, he was out here for the master,
Speaker 1: and I was like, I can't, I can't, I can't
Speaker 1: just geek out. I need to come, you know, just
Speaker 1: ride the waves and all that. But but the one
Speaker 1: conversation we had about was it was about puns Strung
Speaker 1: Lab and that scene. I just love the scene where
Speaker 1: Adam Sandler is quoting the f the breakfast DJs and
Speaker 1: just saying how funny he is. And he you know,
Speaker 1: DJ Justice, I think his name is DJ Justice. He
Speaker 1: just really gets to them. He doesn't, he doesn't get them.
Speaker 1: He doesn't let him get away with anything that I'm paraphrasing,
Speaker 1: but it's like, it's so it's so funny that he's
Speaker 1: The conversation he's having is its basically saying how somebody
Speaker 1: else is, how charming and funny somebody else is, you know.
Speaker 1: And then he goes to the bathroom and he tears
Speaker 1: it up, and then he comes back and he gets
Speaker 1: comes over the way to come. The manager comes over
Speaker 1: and he says, did you just tear up the bathroom
Speaker 1: and he's like, no, I don't, I don't know. Eventually says,
Speaker 1: fuck off, mate, you did, and he's gone.
Speaker 2: It's that anger that he has. It's really interesting.
Speaker 3: That kind of makes the movie surprising, yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: and their combination and like one of the most beautiful
Speaker 3: love scenes I think I've ever seen the movie is
Speaker 3: when they're staring each other, going, you're so I'll go
Speaker 3: I want to punch you in the face. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: and there's just this weird like they're spitting into each
Speaker 3: other's mouths in a way, there's this kind of like
Speaker 3: I just want to you know, and and saying these
Speaker 3: horrible things, but it's love. It's like, I'm so angry
Speaker 3: at you. I'm so scared, I hate you for doing
Speaker 3: this to me. I'm so in love with you. Why
Speaker 3: have you come and ruined my life because now I'm
Speaker 3: never going to be the same again, and you can
Speaker 3: see me and I'm really worried this is going to
Speaker 3: kill me, you know. And it's like that understanding of
Speaker 3: love like that. Also, you know, movies like In The
Speaker 3: Mood for Love and Blue is the warmest color seem
Speaker 3: to get the illness, the darkness and the rage inherent
Speaker 3: with true love.
Speaker 1: I thought it was just, well, we are so used
Speaker 1: to seeing films about people really searching for love and
Speaker 1: needing love and having love before and now wanting it
Speaker 1: again and being on the rebound or whatever. This is
Speaker 1: about those who weren't looking for it, you know, from
Speaker 1: Adam Sandler's perspective.
Speaker 2: You can't do anything about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got its claws in you. Yeah, that beautiful sequence.
Speaker 3: And there's the proscenium march and all the commuters walking past,
Speaker 3: and they just move towards each other and kiss. So
Speaker 3: he has all those kind of old nods to those
Speaker 3: classic Bogardi kind of you know actually like all those
Speaker 3: old movies, has all those nods those movies. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: listened that a lot when I'm writing, Like, I listened
Speaker 3: to a lot of scores. I'm writing on the mood.
Speaker 3: But that's that's a fantastic thing to listen to. And
Speaker 3: and the scene where he runs up to Hoffman and says,
Speaker 3: I have so much is it? I have so much love,
Speaker 3: so much power or strength in me?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he has love.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I can tackle my past, I can tackle
Speaker 3: my demons, yeah, because I've got love in my heart.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And this runs just runs through the streets and then.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like is that when Hoffman does the phone shut up,
Speaker 2: shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up, shut up,
Speaker 2: shut up. Fuck you a right to take shut up.
Speaker 5: Well, shut up, shut up, shut shut shut shut shut up,
Speaker 5: shut up.
Speaker 2: Now are you threatening me? Which you know would have
Speaker 2: been Hoffman improvising?
Speaker 3: Ah, because when I worked with Hoffman, he tracked me
Speaker 3: in True West, you know, which changed my acting game
Speaker 3: and my life. And and he if anyone doesn't know this,
Speaker 3: Philip Hofbin's obsessed with one thing, and that's the truth.
Speaker 3: And he just says, do not ever lie to the audience.
Speaker 3: And he does stakes and status. So he's obsessed with
Speaker 3: scenes and breaking down scenes to You're a status of
Speaker 3: ten here and the stakes are eight. Your status are
Speaker 3: two here and the stakes are four, you know, so
Speaker 3: you break it down in numbers. And if you look
Speaker 3: through all his performances, you can see when he is
Speaker 3: playing stakes in Boogie Nights, he's playing status of one.
Speaker 3: It's like so in love with Markey Wall but the
Speaker 3: stakes are ten.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: This is the most important conversation in my life, talking
Speaker 3: about how much I bench with Mirk Wahlberg's character.
Speaker 1: How much do you love my car?
Speaker 3: But my status is won, you know, and then the
Speaker 3: stakes and then the status that he has in Boogie
Speaker 3: Knights it's ten.
Speaker 2: Yeah, shut up, shut up, shut up. You know what
Speaker 2: I mean.
Speaker 3: And the stakes of it is probably ten as well
Speaker 3: because of the money, you know. And you can see
Speaker 3: in all his performances how he's adjusting his stakes and
Speaker 3: his status, you know, from being the king in the
Speaker 3: in the Hand of Cards to the dance the one
Speaker 3: you know, and you can just that performance him playing
Speaker 3: the ten is amazing.
Speaker 1: That sma Hoffmann, not just because he's my doppelganger, but
Speaker 1: I could just any anything, even the films where he's
Speaker 1: not disappearing, you know, or like well he always disappears though,
Speaker 1: doesn't he I mean, like even Moneyball, the mistake you
Speaker 1: would make his thinking that was walking the park for him,
Speaker 1: and like I'm not sure if any performance was walking
Speaker 1: the parking. That's that's not giving him enough credit for
Speaker 1: the work under preparation he would do.
Speaker 3: No, you kind of like I remember telling his wives
Speaker 3: that you can't be around him when he's acting, like
Speaker 3: because he's there, yeah, you know what I mean. And
Speaker 3: when he did true West John c Riley be reading
Speaker 3: the New York Times Phillip by scrape, scratching his head
Speaker 3: against the wall till the bled to go on stage,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like he's he's the real,
Speaker 3: real deal when it comes to getting into that space.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's extraordinary in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, let's talk about the movie We Are
Speaker 1: We Are Here for Broadcast News nineteen eighty seven. James L. Brooks.
Speaker 1: He wins three oscars for Terms of Endearment in nine
Speaker 1: and eighty three, so he has to back it up
Speaker 1: with something pretty special, and I reckon he has done
Speaker 1: the job. And speaking of interesting choices, don't you think
Speaker 1: there's this interesting choices all over all over this movie.
Speaker 1: But the very fact that like the Tom goes, you know,
Speaker 1: to Jane's hotel room after they meet, after that Q
Speaker 1: and A.
Speaker 3: And then straight away and she tries to have X
Speaker 3: with him, yeah, instantly, which is completely in opposition to
Speaker 3: her character.
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is like, but you believe it, you believe it.
Speaker 2: She's kind of mad.
Speaker 1: It feels like there is some writer and directors like
Speaker 1: port I think, like James L. Brooks that understand that
Speaker 1: adults and people make sometimes choices that go against We're
Speaker 1: not we're not consistent.
Speaker 3: That's what we call behavior, Yes, And I think that's
Speaker 3: what we go to watch. We go to watch human
Speaker 3: behavior that shocks us. But we understand it, we connect
Speaker 3: with it and go, oh, she's not she isn't. I
Speaker 3: cannot or don't keep doing it. And because we know,
Speaker 3: you know, and humans are opposite creatures. You know, animals
Speaker 3: are like hungry kill, you know, horny root, you know,
Speaker 3: scared hide, and whereas adults are like hungry confused, like
Speaker 3: we do the opposite. We cry at a wedding's laugh
Speaker 3: at funerals where human behavior contradicts because of our conditioning
Speaker 3: and our luggage and everything, we don't always behave in
Speaker 3: the right way, which is why there's more than one
Speaker 3: documentary made abouts we can have all these movies, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, because we keep doing stuff that doesn't make
Speaker 3: any sense, but that we connect with.
Speaker 1: Movies and let's let's clean all this up. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: it's the great movies and the great writers and the
Speaker 1: great directors and the great actors who see through that
Speaker 1: and kind of go, no, it's messier. Yeah, trust the
Speaker 1: audience to go with it, because it's we all know
Speaker 1: deep down, even if we're not articulating it, that we
Speaker 1: have made decisions that maybe go against our own sometimes
Speaker 1: even moral code sometimes.
Speaker 3: And people can come into your life and suddenly you're
Speaker 3: behaving in a really strange way.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and you become the.
Speaker 1: A's almost every movie, though, isn't it, Like yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you suddenly this is your life and something's going to
Speaker 1: come along that's going to change your life.
Speaker 2: And suddenly you're the ten year old in the school
Speaker 2: yard again.
Speaker 3: Yeah, even though you're the high powered producer, which she is,
Speaker 3: you know, anxious.
Speaker 2: Overworked work, a whole killer, you know.
Speaker 3: And but at the same time, she is worthy, she's earnest,
Speaker 3: you know, she's about stuff. And that's what the movie
Speaker 3: kind of gets to in the end, is she has
Speaker 3: a moral decision to make with William Hurt, which if
Speaker 3: you look now at the way news is what William
Speaker 3: Hurt does. And I don't know if we're doing spoilers
Speaker 3: on this podcast, but.
Speaker 1: What we can do spoilers, I mean, I don't want
Speaker 1: to get to the ending too soon, so we might
Speaker 1: park that because I'll go back to the idea of
Speaker 1: you got the hotel room and then he leaves, which
Speaker 1: is a great scene. And I want to ask you
Speaker 1: to talk to the flow of scenes. I think you'd
Speaker 1: be a perfect person to I'd love to hear you
Speaker 1: talk about it. But then he calls her from a
Speaker 1: a you know, his pre mobile, which I love the
Speaker 1: fact that it was all premobile mobile fanes and he
Speaker 1: says that I'm actually I work, I'm working with you. You
Speaker 1: know I didn't tell you that, which is actually, you know,
Speaker 1: whatever reason me shitty thing to do, maybe not to
Speaker 1: declare that, to go back to somebody's room and not
Speaker 1: declare that. So you think then when he goes to
Speaker 1: work on the Monday, that this has been set up.
Speaker 1: There's a version, many, many, many versions of this film
Speaker 1: where they hate each other. You know, they can't stand
Speaker 1: each other because this is how they met and this
Speaker 1: is how they clashed, and it's awkward, and Holly Hunter's
Speaker 1: maybe a bit kind of like job focus, which is
Speaker 1: true to a character, and she's a bit you know,
Speaker 1: she keeps him at a distance. But they don't necessarily
Speaker 1: go to war with each other. And I think they
Speaker 1: would have been such an easy decision to make.
Speaker 2: No, they don't. And when they have that, no, I
Speaker 2: think it's a Libya war.
Speaker 3: And suddenly they have to jump into a story together.
Speaker 6: In the summer of nineteen eighty one, two Libyan jets
Speaker 6: suddenly attack to American f fourteens point.
Speaker 1: Golts claim them.
Speaker 6: You do know that the golf is part of Libya's
Speaker 6: territorial water to you and I shared by other nations,
Speaker 6: including the US. After a brief dog fate, both Libyan
Speaker 6: Judds were down by the American fighters. Nathan Bentley is
Speaker 6: at the Pentagon, So that's great, Commander. It must have
Speaker 6: been a bit tougher today shooting down the Med twenty one.
Speaker 6: The one you got was Nesu twenty two.
Speaker 2: Was it like at the moment's confrontation.
Speaker 6: What's it like to be in a real dog fait?
Speaker 2: That's the love dance, Yeah, you know of the movie.
Speaker 3: That's the that's the moment where they go the two
Speaker 3: of us combined in this beautiful way. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, he's threatened by the fact that it was
Speaker 3: her brilliance in his face and you know, and he
Speaker 3: is threatened by the fact that she's brilliant and she's
Speaker 3: a woman, you know, and he's got to come to
Speaker 3: terms with that, and he wants to do his own thing.
Speaker 1: But he does know what's great about it. He knows
Speaker 1: he needs her, Like, yeah, the whole way through, Like
Speaker 1: I love to set up as the kids said, I
Speaker 1: thought it was so Yeah, I really enjoyed that. I
Speaker 1: really felt like, Okay, I think I'm going to enjoy this.
Speaker 1: But he is like he doesn't He says he doesn't
Speaker 1: understand a lot of the news stories. He he doesn't write.
Speaker 3: He's not the brightest crayon. He's so charismatic and he
Speaker 3: does care and he wants to make great stuff. And
Speaker 3: the tension they have, which you can't buy, Like, I
Speaker 3: don't know if you've ever seen the auditions for The
Speaker 3: Notebook and you see Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling just
Speaker 3: in a rehearsal room, you know, look at and they're
Speaker 3: three feet apart, and you're like, just have sair, you know,
Speaker 3: and let me wase like there is and often in
Speaker 3: Hollywood you know, I've done it before. You have the
Speaker 3: chemistry test and it is a thing. And the tension
Speaker 3: when big tall William Hurd is standing there in a
Speaker 3: tiny little office between a desk and a door and
Speaker 3: she's looking up at him but she has all the power,
Speaker 3: it makes you breathless. You know there's something in the
Speaker 3: writing there and what they're talking about. And there's also
Speaker 3: two people not unlike punched drunk love who don't want this,
Speaker 3: and they want to stay with how they're doing, which
Speaker 3: his career focused money and burying their truth and burying
Speaker 3: their emotional wellbeing in work and just you know, don't
Speaker 3: look up, just keep keep going ahead with what you're doing.
Speaker 3: And they can't, you know what I mean. There's such
Speaker 3: a palpable attraction for them. And you know the plot
Speaker 3: it weaves brilliantly by with the use of Albert Brooks
Speaker 3: coming in. Who you can tell is that guy that
Speaker 3: you know didn't get laid at high school? He really cares,
Speaker 3: He gets forgotten in the conversations, and he's just so
Speaker 3: in love with Holy Hunter's character and always has been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and.
Speaker 3: He's probably the good guy, but he doesn't have the
Speaker 3: charm or William Hurt, the effortless charm.
Speaker 1: Yeah, despite being funny. And that's what I love about
Speaker 1: the scenes. We see him being beaten up, and even
Speaker 1: as he's been beaten up, he's still throwing out one
Speaker 1: liners and yeah, yeah, he can think. He's way through.
Speaker 3: You'll never make more than nineteen thousand dollars a year,
Speaker 3: and I'm going to travel the world.
Speaker 1: That's it. That's it, And It's really interesting because it
Speaker 1: is this love triangle. At first, you kind of think, well,
Speaker 1: Albert Brooks, Aaron's obviously in the friend zone.
Speaker 3: I reckon Albert Brooks was totally in with the shot.
Speaker 3: That would be my controversial opinion.
Speaker 1: James Ler Brooks did not know who Jane was going
Speaker 1: to end up with, and the actors didn't know. You're right,
Speaker 1: you are true smack bang on the money that I
Speaker 1: only found that out through doing some research.
Speaker 2: She doesn't it.
Speaker 3: We don't want to give it away, but that he
Speaker 3: is so effortlessly charming, but he's too not predatorial. He's
Speaker 3: leaning on her too hard because he doesn't raid himself
Speaker 3: because of his bully, you know, because of that kid
Speaker 3: that was bullied in the yard. He thinks his dickhead
Speaker 3: is never going to get the girl. And he actually
Speaker 3: would have if he just stayed respectful and enthusiastic and
Speaker 3: supportive and curious about her instead of almost trapping her
Speaker 3: in his flat. Because of his jealousy towards William Hurt,
Speaker 3: he became Macavalian almost kind of really unhealthy, unwell looking
Speaker 3: man in front of her. He declared his spite and
Speaker 3: and Holly Hunter's like No, that's not you.
Speaker 2: Why are you doing that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Why are you behaving in that way?
Speaker 3: But it's because the effortless swagger guy had rolled into
Speaker 3: town that all his demons school yard demons comes out.
Speaker 2: He was probably going to get there.
Speaker 1: You have all these complicated relationships with the characters because
Speaker 1: they all do really kind things and they all do
Speaker 1: really shitty things. Like it tries the kind things. You know,
Speaker 1: Tom teaches gives Aarronos tips about how to be you know,
Speaker 1: the jacket, yeah, and punching words and angles and this
Speaker 1: is your good angle.
Speaker 3: But like William Hurt, some of the scenes you imagine
Speaker 3: put trying to put in a movie now.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: He goes into Holly Hunter's office, grabs her chair, pulls
Speaker 3: her chair towards him.
Speaker 2: Yes, you locking in my ear.
Speaker 3: It's like great sex, you know, and you think, hang on,
Speaker 3: I don't think that would fly.
Speaker 2: In a movie, now you know. And like when they're.
Speaker 3: Outside, she she skips that fancy dinner and they go
Speaker 3: outside and have a wine on this.
Speaker 1: Because she doesn't want to go through to the security
Speaker 1: scanners because she has condoms packed in her.
Speaker 3: Handbag, which it's a great detail, and she yeah, they
Speaker 3: go through, they have a dinner outside and then he
Speaker 3: kisses it once. He basically just puts his hand inside
Speaker 3: a blouse straight away and she's like, are you going
Speaker 3: to kiss me while you're doing that?
Speaker 2: Yes? Whoa.
Speaker 3: But it's also a declaration of who he is, which
Speaker 3: is a result driven man, you know, And that's what
Speaker 3: the revelation is in the denument of the fact that
Speaker 3: he doesn't care how he gets it as long as
Speaker 3: he gets it, which is the shot at the end,
Speaker 3: you know, how he gets the story. Yeah, as long
Speaker 3: as you get the shot doesn't matter if it's real,
Speaker 3: you know. And you can see Brooks is about no,
Speaker 3: it's this is this is journalism here, this is human
Speaker 3: beings and that's Holly Hunter as well.
Speaker 2: It's this human beings on off of here.
Speaker 1: And we see both sides. We see, Yeah, we see
Speaker 1: the acts of kindness, but we also see the odd
Speaker 1: behavior like what we just spoke about, but also the
Speaker 1: shitty things they all do, Like Aaron tells Jane about
Speaker 1: that you know that that you know, like knowing that
Speaker 1: his best friend that we now know is in love
Speaker 1: with that Tom only had the one camera, so he
Speaker 1: basically spoils that moment Jane sends Jennifer to fucking Alaska
Speaker 1: to cover Alaska, Like, well, it's not sending somebody to
Speaker 1: the outback the cover the serial killer, because Tom and
Speaker 1: her are starting to you know, and now you know,
Speaker 1: early stages of a relationship.
Speaker 3: So it's Romeo and Juliet, isn't it's it's it's rome
Speaker 3: and Julia. It's something such a deft hand. The letter, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know. And then the poison, No, it's not real poison.
Speaker 3: She's not dead. She's faking it from the fryar. And
Speaker 3: if and if Romeo, if the letter Romeo sent wasn't hidden,
Speaker 3: it's the notebook with the mum destroying the letters. Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, it's it's a standard love story trope of
Speaker 3: like if only you got that information, why was it thwarted?
Speaker 3: You know, if he didn't declare about the camera, she
Speaker 3: would have gone to William Hurt's house and they would
Speaker 3: have had sex, and they probably would have gone on
Speaker 3: that holiday at the end, and all those kind of
Speaker 3: you know, star cross lovers and it's actually the world
Speaker 3: that has more of a problem with them than they do,
Speaker 3: and all that kind of stuff. But in the end,
Speaker 3: she's dating someone. Yeah, Albert Brooks as a kid, yep.
Speaker 3: And William Hurt's still interested in her. But he's still
Speaker 3: William Hurt's character, you know, he hasn't changed, Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: and it's it's I love the ending because it's sad,
Speaker 3: but it's beautiful.
Speaker 2: And James L. Brooks cared so much about his characters.
Speaker 3: He did not And I imagine that in those we
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been zoom meetings because there wasn't him. But
Speaker 3: you know, in those production meetings, I imagine the investor
Speaker 3: and the network would have gone, oh, come on, we
Speaker 3: need a wedding here, you know, and we'll have the
Speaker 3: news and they'll do it and they'll be on Staten
Speaker 3: Island or you know, come on, guys, and this.
Speaker 1: Is where this is where, you know, in the movie
Speaker 1: making business. The fact that he won three Oscars for
Speaker 1: Terms of Endearment probably gives him the power to have
Speaker 1: the ending that he actually wanted. He did shoot an
Speaker 1: alternative ending, did he with William jumping in the cab
Speaker 1: and the airport And they basically just improved this dialogue.
Speaker 1: It's available online. You can easily YouTube it, and it
Speaker 1: goes about three minutes and they kiss quite passionately, and
Speaker 1: then they kind of they talk and William her just goes,
Speaker 1: you make me crazy, you know, and all that.
Speaker 2: So he's going to get on the plane. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: he gets off the planet. She's sitting on that chair
Speaker 2: going what is my life?
Speaker 1: She's in the cab at this stage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And then she gets in the cab.
Speaker 3: Yeah right, and and she goes, you can take the
Speaker 3: three Highway.
Speaker 2: It's quicker. Oh sorry, you know, so.
Speaker 1: Let's let's talk about We can even go back and
Speaker 1: talk about other stuff. But so the big one of
Speaker 1: the big things that happens here is that Tom does
Speaker 1: an interview with a victim of date rape and it's
Speaker 1: it's it's quite a powerful thing obviously, just with the
Speaker 1: woman's account. But then it cuts to a shot of
Speaker 1: Tom doing an interview and he's crying. The newsroom is
Speaker 1: watching it. It seems to me that Aaron Aaron has
Speaker 1: a problem with it immediately for many reasons, both on
Speaker 1: a professional level, this is crossing a line and on
Speaker 1: a personal level that he actually sees that the women
Speaker 1: in the office seem to be responding to this, and
Speaker 1: Jane seems to be, you know, responding to it. Or
Speaker 1: at least he's trying to maybe cut it off at
Speaker 1: the past that you know, this is not this is
Speaker 1: this is no good. So and Jane says something that's
Speaker 1: I think really important, particularly for later on, where she
Speaker 1: says when he when he asked, what did you think
Speaker 1: of it? She says, it was real and it got me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you got me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And I think that's important because later on because well,
Speaker 1: and you talk about now when you watch it in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one, and there's a great line that I
Speaker 1: think is really prevalent today that Tom says, he goes,
Speaker 1: I keep moving the line. Well, the line from nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty seven to twenty twenty one has been shifted kilometers miles,
Speaker 1: you know. It is like, that's just not And.
Speaker 3: Also there's a different relationship with the line now, yes,
Speaker 3: you know. And I think that's what's hard for people
Speaker 3: like yourself comedians and myself artists, is like the line
Speaker 3: that we push, which is our role, and it's also
Speaker 3: what's funny and interesting. People are now going back, going
Speaker 3: that was bad what you said, and you're like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but the line was in a different spot, you know.
Speaker 3: And our role storytellers is to arrive at the line
Speaker 3: and question it, or not question it, but arise things
Speaker 3: from within. Comes from being in a relationship with the line.
Speaker 3: The line keeps moving. You can only really question people's
Speaker 3: relationship with a present.
Speaker 1: Line, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And if you look at him, he fakes tears basically
Speaker 2: for this story because there was one camera. She wasn't there.
Speaker 3: You know, when he did the tears, they turned around
Speaker 3: on him and he just kind of wet, you know,
Speaker 3: he just he didn't sweat like Albert Brooks. He had
Speaker 3: swept from the eyeballs, and so he manipulated something. And
Speaker 3: you think, now, in terms of modern day news and storytelling,
Speaker 3: you like, is sorry, is that a problem?
Speaker 2: We are so morally barren now with what it takes.
Speaker 3: I mean, people, there's now a concept called fake news,
Speaker 3: which is like we decide whether that actually happened, not
Speaker 3: only whether it was crying on everyone cares if he's
Speaker 3: crying or not. Get the story, get the clickbait, get
Speaker 3: the link, push it out there, whether it's real or not.
Speaker 2: Nobody's cared about that for years.
Speaker 1: Everyone's got their new service in their own head now
Speaker 1: in my herman's head news service, you know, And I
Speaker 1: mean What I like about it, though, is there's a
Speaker 1: gray area of because the when it was the camera
Speaker 1: person or whoever was said to him when they said
Speaker 1: they're the reversal shots. So Tom explains to the interviewee
Speaker 1: what that means. And then the woman who's kind of
Speaker 1: setting up the whether it's the lighting, she goes, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: I thought you were about to cry. That wouldn't that
Speaker 1: have been a great shot or something like that, And
Speaker 1: that puts the idea and he said, so somebody has
Speaker 1: recognized that he was close to tears. Oh that wasn't
Speaker 1: on camera, though, Let's reflect what I was feeling with
Speaker 1: a little bit of mayo on it. So it's kind
Speaker 1: of like.
Speaker 3: And do you know what, maybe this helps the story?
Speaker 3: And the story is the thing? Yes, if I make
Speaker 3: this more powerful, am I doing more for victims of
Speaker 3: this issue, if this gets.
Speaker 2: More and more interest globally?
Speaker 3: Yes, you know, if I do whatever it takes to
Speaker 3: make this a huge story, am I helping victims? And
Speaker 3: it's like, what is the moral fire are inherent in
Speaker 3: that ultimatum?
Speaker 2: You know? It's and that's him, He's willing to do
Speaker 2: what it takes.
Speaker 3: But the fact that Holy Hunter has such a high
Speaker 3: ground at that point, which in that period completely justified.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what thwarts her ability to be with
Speaker 3: him and go on this funny holiday. And he says
Speaker 3: that sexy line, let's just have six days and see
Speaker 3: what we're like together out of this place.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's such a great sentence.
Speaker 3: It's like that is their only chance because their tension
Speaker 3: is this uncomfortable workplace and the tensions in the offices,
Speaker 3: and the excitement and the fact that anything could go
Speaker 3: wrong on such an enormous level. In news, and I've
Speaker 3: been watching The Morning New Morning Wars Morning Wars, which
Speaker 3: I think has three different names depending on what country.
Speaker 2: You're watching it in.
Speaker 3: I think, you know, and you see that kind of
Speaker 3: cutthroat billy crowddup character, and you're like William Hurt's characters
Speaker 3: come along way, Yes, Billy Kradit basically says, I hate myself,
Speaker 3: I have no soul, life is meaningless.
Speaker 2: Will you do this for me?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You know, And that's his every line of dialogue.
Speaker 1: It's funny because breakfast broadcast news. I was expecting it
Speaker 1: more to be blasically romantic comedy and have less to
Speaker 1: say about the news like Network famously has a lot
Speaker 1: to say about the news when news is heading, but
Speaker 1: this has got a lot to say.
Speaker 3: But the fact that it involves Libya and it involves
Speaker 3: date Ray, which were issues at that time. They were
Speaker 3: like whoa, and he plants these massive issues that clearly
Speaker 3: he wanted to bring up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, come on, guys, let's have a little chat about this.
Speaker 3: He hit them in a very Shakespearean way, like how
Speaker 3: the fool pops up in Macbeth, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: And the fool can speak about anything because everyone's laughing
Speaker 3: at them, but they get to say the most kind
Speaker 3: of disturbing stuff about the political situation at the time.
Speaker 3: And that's the Shakespearean notion of the fool, you know.
Speaker 3: And he does that really really well in this movie
Speaker 3: You've Gone. This is a bouncy, romantic comedy with people
Speaker 3: in a sexy job in New York who are high flying.
Speaker 3: Will they have sex or won't they? Underneath I want
Speaker 3: to say stuff about the.
Speaker 1: World, yeah, and about the performative nature of news, and
Speaker 1: that's becoming performative and that Aaron actually says, oh, of course,
Speaker 1: because it's all about us now, isn't it all? You know, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's saying absolutely saying something the other important thing I
Speaker 1: feel like. And the first time I was I was like,
Speaker 1: I was like, holy Jane, are you really giving up
Speaker 1: this relationship because of this? Like really you can't get
Speaker 1: over that? And then I thought, well, hang on. There
Speaker 1: was the moment which I mentioned before, when she says,
Speaker 1: you know, you got me. It wouldn't be what I
Speaker 1: would have done, but it worked. You got me with
Speaker 1: a tear. So that's the moment for me, she emotionally
Speaker 1: falls in love with him. There's been any like a
Speaker 1: thing more of a physical infatuation with him that up
Speaker 1: until then, So that moment that the tear is tied
Speaker 1: to her falling in love with him. And the other
Speaker 1: thing that I think is really ever is when they
Speaker 1: go to South America and the guys trying to put
Speaker 1: on his boots and Jane goes over there and you know,
Speaker 1: there's the camera guys saying this, put on your boots
Speaker 1: and will film it. And she runs over and goes, no, no,
Speaker 1: we are not here to interfere. You do exactly what
Speaker 1: you do, and the guy thinks about it, and then
Speaker 1: this puts on his boot and she's so proud and
Speaker 1: so happy with that footage, and it's like, well, this
Speaker 1: is what's brilly about James A. Brooks. It plays as
Speaker 1: a comedic moment, you know, it's just a small little
Speaker 1: moment and that yeah, okay, she's great. Great, you've got
Speaker 1: a shot of somebody putting a boot on. But then
Speaker 1: at the end when she is tying herself to this
Speaker 1: moral post, it makes sense because I've seen her in
Speaker 1: the South American jungle kind of stop something and kind
Speaker 1: of going, no, this is important. We cannot impact the news.
Speaker 1: We are not the news. They're the news. Let's just
Speaker 1: put it.
Speaker 3: We put our agents or catalysts to information, and that's
Speaker 3: you know, wiki leaks, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: It's like what is information? Who owns information?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: And they were kind of tapping on a back then.
Speaker 3: I mean, it looks so dated and funny and hilarious
Speaker 3: the way Tho's gone in and her running through the
Speaker 3: room with a big beta tape going we've.
Speaker 2: Got to get it in there, you know.
Speaker 3: But he's obsessed with character, Brooks, and character is action
Speaker 3: in all these movies, and that's where all the drama
Speaker 3: comes from. Human behavior. The character's behaving and you question,
Speaker 3: did William Hurt come up with this victim date rape
Speaker 3: news story to get Holly Hunter to cry and see
Speaker 3: that he is a beautiful, complicated man, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean?
Speaker 2: Like, was that is he?
Speaker 3: And he plays that fine line of grayness, and grayness
Speaker 3: is for me the greatest world for movies to be
Speaker 3: made in where audiences you're giving audiences a go, you're
Speaker 3: giving them a you're crediting them with intelligence, and you're saying,
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's messy.
Speaker 2: Isn't it a bit like life?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: And you're like, is William Hurt did he do that
Speaker 3: to get laid or does he actually care about those victims?
Speaker 2: Who is this man?
Speaker 3: And when he goes for the the you know, when
Speaker 3: he goes to touch under her blouse after the first
Speaker 3: kiss and wants to get her home, but then and
Speaker 3: then once ago, and you're like, is he a normal
Speaker 3: alpha male or is he really really like does he
Speaker 3: have all these preordained thoughts?
Speaker 2: Is he quite manipulative in a way?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: And he does that with Brooks. Brooks is this great guy,
Speaker 3: but at the same time he's so desperate and urgent
Speaker 3: and full of jealousy. You know, and and then Holly
Speaker 3: Hunter's like, you know that great romantic question for women
Speaker 3: in romantic comedies.
Speaker 2: His life only complete when.
Speaker 3: There's a guy, you know, which is in so many
Speaker 3: of those movies, like oh my god, when am I
Speaker 3: going to find mister rait?
Speaker 2: What I like about this she's deciding whether to be
Speaker 2: that woman. Yeah, because and that's why I.
Speaker 1: Really like that one. She is the one pursuing him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I like the fact that it's initially it's about sex, like's, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's not. She's not that one woman who is working
Speaker 1: out can she have it both? I don't think it's
Speaker 1: like I just want I've got something. There's a chemistry
Speaker 1: between us, and I need to explore that sexually and
Speaker 1: then and then that's what with the date, rape story
Speaker 1: and the tear, it becomes something else. And that's why
Speaker 1: it's like, I'm okay, I think I actually have feelings
Speaker 1: with this guy, and that's going to complicate things. I want.
Speaker 1: I want to play a scene in two parts, and
Speaker 1: this is the scene where after they kiss and they're
Speaker 1: big kisses, aren't they They're big over mouth kisses.
Speaker 3: I remember those days you just used to hash off Yeah,
Speaker 3: full nineties, tonguies just rip right in. But there was
Speaker 3: a one kiss where their mouths were both open for
Speaker 3: about twenty seconds, and I thought, what goes on there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that you only.
Speaker 3: See those pashes in TV because I wouldn't know how
Speaker 3: to do no, because the mouths are like frozen, and
Speaker 3: they just twist their head kind of eight degrees each
Speaker 3: way back.
Speaker 2: And forth, and you're like, what's what is happening? Are
Speaker 2: they just breathing? Is this like that you John ambulance
Speaker 2: course kind of?
Speaker 1: You know, it's not COVID safe. It's not COVID safe.
Speaker 1: She goes back to Aaron's place, and you know, like
Speaker 1: again a good friend, like I promise this is going
Speaker 1: to happen. By the way, how how how funny is
Speaker 1: and brilliant is Aaron's debut of reading the news the
Speaker 1: sweating and well, my faure apart was somebody knocks the
Speaker 1: set in the background and their hands holding it, somebody
Speaker 1: else you going go your hand, your hand, your hand.
Speaker 3: And shut and the map starts fading and rip tearing
Speaker 3: down the middle. And everyone can relate to that moment
Speaker 3: where you go, I can actually be the front man.
Speaker 3: But then all your greatest fears manifest where you realize, no,
Speaker 3: you're just ordinary. Yeah, you know, and you're like, why
Speaker 3: do I ever think that I can go to this level?
Speaker 3: And He's world starts deteriorating in front of him. He
Speaker 3: doesn't have it.
Speaker 1: And again another great choice when Holly Hunter goes back
Speaker 1: and she asks how it went and she doesn't know
Speaker 1: and Aaron Aaron's responses and now what Brooks is such
Speaker 1: a funny guy. Like there's a version where it's like
Speaker 1: in most movies, did the whole it was? My career
Speaker 1: is over?
Speaker 2: It was a contrast. I can't believe it. Yeah, why
Speaker 2: didn't they press star?
Speaker 1: Yeah it's there were calls, you know, I sweat so
Speaker 1: much I lost six six kilos. Yeah, there were calls,
Speaker 1: a really nice ones. They thought I was having a
Speaker 1: heart attack.
Speaker 3: But that's the character, isn't he He's the like, you know,
Speaker 3: it's a very woody Alleny kind of trope that.
Speaker 1: Well, he's trying to stay upbeat and positive. But the
Speaker 1: one thing that will drag him back is the idea
Speaker 1: that when Holly Hunter's Jane, he wants to get back
Speaker 1: to Tom. So let's let's have a listen to the
Speaker 1: first half of this scene where Aaron starts laying down
Speaker 1: a bit of a law for it for Jane.
Speaker 4: I've never seen you like this with anybody. So don't
Speaker 4: get me wrong when I tell you that Tom Well,
Speaker 4: being a very nice guy, is the devil.
Speaker 2: This isn't friendship.
Speaker 4: What do you think the devil's gonna look like if
Speaker 4: he's around God? Come on, No one's.
Speaker 2: Gonna be taking him.
Speaker 4: By a guy to the long great point he tail
Speaker 4: Come on, what's he gonna sound like? A No, I'm
Speaker 4: semi serious here, you're serious. He will be attractive, he'll
Speaker 4: be nice and helpful. He'll get a job where he
Speaker 4: influences a great, god fearing nation. He'll never do an
Speaker 4: evil thing, he'll never deliberately hurt a living thing. He'll
Speaker 4: just bit by little bit lower our standards where they're important,
Speaker 4: just a tiny little bit, just copes along flash over substance,
Speaker 4: just a tiny little bit. And he'll talk about all
Speaker 4: of us really being salesman, and he'll get all the
Speaker 4: great women.
Speaker 1: What a great line to finish on. Yeah, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a it's a cracker. And I want I want
Speaker 1: to ask you I mentioned earlier. I want I want
Speaker 1: a lot of that here. You talk about people, you know,
Speaker 1: listeners who may not you know, most of our listeners
Speaker 1: don't write movies, they don't make movies. They love movies, though,
Speaker 1: and they they're aware, obviously, even subconsciously, of there's an
Speaker 1: emotional flow that goes through movies, that there's a journey
Speaker 1: that the hero must go on over over the period
Speaker 1: of that film and arrive at a different place. But
Speaker 1: what we having haven't spoken about much on this podcast
Speaker 1: is the idea that that that's happening also in every
Speaker 1: single scene. There's an emotional journey happening in every scene.
Speaker 1: The idea that you cannot arrive at the same place
Speaker 1: wherever you start that scene the end of that scene
Speaker 1: cannot you cannot have your characters in the same emotional
Speaker 1: space unless to a degree.
Speaker 3: With Holly Hunter, it's running, you know, and she does.
Speaker 3: You know, characters walk down the street, they fall in
Speaker 3: a hole. The next time they go, oh, I better
Speaker 3: go round it, And then the third time they fall
Speaker 3: in it deeper.
Speaker 2: Then they really learn how to go around it.
Speaker 3: They build something that goes over the top of the hole,
Speaker 3: or whatever the metaphors may be, you know, and so
Speaker 3: you need your characters to not learn things too quickly,
Speaker 3: and that has to you know, torture your characters, which
Speaker 3: is the ultro absolutely back them into a corner where
Speaker 3: you think they can't get out of this, challenge them
Speaker 3: till they until it seems impossible, and then at the end,
Speaker 3: you know, have them face their their deepest fear. And
Speaker 3: I think for holy hundreds, it's intimacy. But she has
Speaker 3: a decision to make about what she values more, you know,
Speaker 3: in her work and in a relationship.
Speaker 2: Would she prefer to.
Speaker 3: Remain alone a spinster, you know, and be someone she
Speaker 3: can go to sleep at night knowing that she's doing
Speaker 3: her job for the goodness of humanity. Or is she
Speaker 3: willing to accept this guy and maybe just glaze over
Speaker 3: a few of the things that irked her in order
Speaker 3: to not be alone, you know. And that's a pretty
Speaker 3: hefty conuntrum.
Speaker 1: For a movie James Abrook's. Apparently, two years after it
Speaker 1: he finished making it, watched it again and said that
Speaker 1: he realized the film was about three people who lost
Speaker 1: their opportunity to have intimate relationships.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's really sad, Yeah it is.
Speaker 1: It is. And what's interesting about that is the idea.
Speaker 1: There's your relationship with your work change over the years.
Speaker 1: Have you reflected on something and kind of gone, oh,
Speaker 1: there's something in that that I can see that I
Speaker 1: was actually working through or dealing with, or saying something
Speaker 1: that I wasn't even I didn't know that I was
Speaker 1: saying at the time. I think people had this idea
Speaker 1: that when author sit down, they know they are in
Speaker 1: complete control of the messaging and what is going on.
Speaker 1: That's true to an extent, but there must be I
Speaker 1: always find there's something else going on when you reflect
Speaker 1: on something down the track.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And I would say I'm the opposite of the
Speaker 3: writer who writes what he knows. I write what I'm
Speaker 3: trying to know. I write what I don't know, and
Speaker 3: I think what stops me in my tracks and goes ooh.
Speaker 3: I think this is an idea is when I've had
Speaker 3: something happen to me and I don't understand who I
Speaker 3: became in that situation, and it threw up so many
Speaker 3: questions that brought out what we caught what we're talking
Speaker 3: about before human behavior. I behaved in a really strange way,
Speaker 3: and so did the people around me. And I think
Speaker 3: there's got to be something in this. But I'm absolutely
Speaker 3: working on a question and I look back and I see, oh,
Speaker 3: you were wrestling with that and then you got through it.
Speaker 2: And I think I probably also write less.
Speaker 3: From biography now, like a lot of my stories with
Speaker 3: the Reuben Guthries and how it feels were definitely even
Speaker 3: love my way, you know, in theacter of Tom being
Speaker 3: a fucked up young man and who even go through
Speaker 3: dealing with drinking in Australia and trying to work out,
Speaker 3: you know, how to manage being sober, which is an
Speaker 3: issue that I know longer and lost about, and how
Speaker 3: it feels dealing with why we're also angry in Crenulla
Speaker 3: and why so many boys took their own lives and stuff.
Speaker 3: And now with Peter Lum, yeah, I'm fascinated. I think
Speaker 3: a little less with myself and more with others than
Speaker 3: human behavior. But in the same way, what Peter Lum's
Speaker 3: going through is something that I've been going through the
Speaker 3: last five years, which is how do you change your
Speaker 3: life as a bloke? And can you have a second
Speaker 3: chapter that doesn't look like the first one, you know,
Speaker 3: and how do you change in Australia And what is
Speaker 3: the effect on all your relationships, and how do you
Speaker 3: share and stuff like that, how do you share your
Speaker 3: confusion and your pain and your stress. So absolutely I
Speaker 3: think writing, you know, when you're coming from a really
Speaker 3: personal place, affects everybody.
Speaker 2: The more honest you ah, even in the smallness, the
Speaker 2: absolute smallness.
Speaker 3: Which is what broadcast news does so well, that's what
Speaker 3: makes it universal. Chekhov never lift his village, larsvon trere
Speaker 3: Belly leaves his village. But they speak about America, they
Speaker 3: speak about the world still, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: because they're so personal and precise about their own experience.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 1: And how important is it and broadcasting news has it?
Speaker 1: How far ahead of your audience do you like to be?
Speaker 1: Because I think I feel like it's something I remember
Speaker 1: writing It's a date BC. And we would always meet
Speaker 1: with the actors to discuss any ideas they had and
Speaker 1: just you know, we're really collaborative process. And the Dean Gardner,
Speaker 1: the one from the Dean Gardener said to me, she
Speaker 1: is you need to be ahead of your audience, like
Speaker 1: as soon as your audience catches up to you, you
Speaker 1: are dead in the water. And the Dean is brilliant
Speaker 1: and she can be intense, you know, she's you know,
Speaker 1: and I remember looking at me straight in the eye,
Speaker 1: and because we're taking her through, and I think she
Speaker 1: just thought maybe the audience is with us, you know,
Speaker 1: like two with you know, you know, maybe they're even
Speaker 1: in front of.
Speaker 3: Us or just involving the audience, which I think is
Speaker 3: what James L.
Speaker 2: Brook starts of going, what do you think is happening?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: You know, do you think he's an asshole? Or do
Speaker 3: you think he's just like every other horny guy. Do
Speaker 3: you think he'd be a good boyfriend. Do you think
Speaker 3: they're well matched? Do you think it's just sex? Do
Speaker 3: you think she's always going to be alone? Do you
Speaker 3: think that's okay? You know, and he's kind of going
Speaker 3: here go, I'm not going to tell you. I'm going
Speaker 3: to ask you constantly with my blurry human scenes that
Speaker 3: are so funny because they're so uncomfortable, because you know,
Speaker 3: we don't know as humans.
Speaker 1: Well. It's often people think movies, even filmmakers would think
Speaker 1: movies are about giving answers, but they're more about raising questions.
Speaker 3: Active questions, yes, you know, questions that are happening live
Speaker 3: in front of you that you are completely awoken by
Speaker 3: from your own life, but they're not, you know, and
Speaker 3: we see it now in so many films and TV shows.
Speaker 3: You're thirty seconds in and you go, oh, so, I
Speaker 3: guess they'll have the fight, he'll go there, and then
Speaker 3: they'll end up together. And also, what pisses me off
Speaker 3: about those five minute trailers that you see now? You know,
Speaker 3: I think when we're coming through watching movies nowadays nineties,
Speaker 3: they just give you this forty second verse and you're like,
Speaker 3: what the fuck is that?
Speaker 2: I've got to see it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know what it is, but.
Speaker 2: You just gave me a taster. And now you know.
Speaker 3: I watched PTA's Midnight Pizza or whatever it's called, Licorice Pizza,
Speaker 3: Lekriash Pizza.
Speaker 2: I got to the end of the five minute trailer
Speaker 2: and went, oh, I've seen that.
Speaker 1: But if you notice, if you notice there's a twenty
Speaker 1: second trailer before the three minute trailer. Yes, yes, they
Speaker 1: say this is the there's a trailer before the trailer,
Speaker 1: a trailer teaser, a trailer teaser, which is immediately before
Speaker 1: the trailer. You go immediately into the then you go.
Speaker 3: To the movie and they're like, this is the thirty
Speaker 3: seven minute cut down. If you want to see the movie,
Speaker 3: you have to go down the road, and then you
Speaker 3: go down that.
Speaker 2: We'll show you an hour, but we'll speed it.
Speaker 1: Up, you know, like, where can I what's a movie
Speaker 1: I want to want to be? Actually I forgot because
Speaker 1: it happens. It's not audible, But what a reaction and
Speaker 1: what a choice Holly Hunto or Dan jel Brooks, probably
Speaker 1: in collaboration makes when Aaron says I love you, she winces.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm not.
Speaker 4: Because I think we have the kind of friendship where
Speaker 4: if I were the devil, You'll be the only one
Speaker 4: I would tell, well, you were awfully put to run
Speaker 4: after time's help with.
Speaker 1: All right, want have.
Speaker 4: And things have gone well for me tonight that I
Speaker 4: probably wouldn't be saying any of this. I grant you everything,
Speaker 4: but give me this. He personifies everything that you've been
Speaker 4: fighting against and I'm in love with you.
Speaker 5: How do you like that.
Speaker 2: I buried the lead? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I mean that's there's a really tough line as well.
Speaker 1: Earlier when before she goes up to the Correspondence dinner
Speaker 1: where she's getting ready while he's there and he says,
Speaker 1: can you at least pretend this is awkward for you,
Speaker 1: which is both funny and heartbreaking. Is like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: you are in the friend zone, aren't you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And she is slightly she has she's verging on
Speaker 3: her personality disorder.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she doesn't entertained this idea. She doesn't like Listen,
Speaker 1: I'm just not you're my friend. There's never that scene
Speaker 1: where she goes, you are a great friend, and you
Speaker 1: are my friend, you know, I just don't feel that
Speaker 1: way about you. And I love that that scene doesn't happen.
Speaker 2: But she that's what's wonderful about her character is that
Speaker 2: she kind of she doesn't need a guy to be
Speaker 2: complete in the eighties, and that she she's just completely
Speaker 2: besulted with this man who's just you know, he's just
Speaker 2: stopped her life. And it's the attraction and stuff like that.
Speaker 2: And and she said, who does she say it to you?
Speaker 2: She goes, I think I'm in love with them. She
Speaker 2: says it to Brooks doesn't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, I mean, what a strange because normally that
Speaker 3: would be with the gay friend or the sister at
Speaker 3: the bar gay.
Speaker 2: I think I'm in love with this guy.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do, what should they do Yeah,
Speaker 3: And instead she says it to the guy who's in
Speaker 3: love with her. Yeah, you know, And that's great riding,
Speaker 3: isn't it. It's like she confides in him, yeah, to
Speaker 3: break his heart.
Speaker 1: And then and then she calls Tom to kind of
Speaker 1: know what's going on. And it's a really interesting again.
Speaker 1: It's it's asking questions of like is he being passive aggressive?
Speaker 1: Is he is he happy that she's not on his way?
Speaker 1: He says, oh, my dad's coming through in the morning,
Speaker 1: But he's also saying like that sounds like an important
Speaker 1: that he knows what's going on. He taped the newsballer
Speaker 1: than the sweating news. He knows that sounds more important.
Speaker 1: You stay there, I've got stuff to deal with. And
Speaker 1: he says something. He says, I'm not I'm not one
Speaker 1: of your chores you need to tick off. Yeah, which
Speaker 1: is slightly passive aggressive, but absolutely, but it's it's still
Speaker 1: he's still wondering is he is that fair enough? Like
Speaker 1: who's being unreasonable? You did go off to you know,
Speaker 1: your friend's house, you know, after a massive.
Speaker 2: And when she's walking down the corridor, like I totally
Speaker 2: had that.
Speaker 3: Moment of like just keep going have sex, Go and
Speaker 3: just enjoy us, or go and have love. Don't get
Speaker 3: caught up in this guy's resent, this guy's unhappiness, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean. And and but because she's a
Speaker 3: people pleaser, because she loves him, because she can't leave
Speaker 3: a guy.
Speaker 2: You know, she does love him as a friend.
Speaker 3: You know, she comes back into the room and gives
Speaker 3: up on her own love story, you know, and you're.
Speaker 2: Like, no, bust through the door.
Speaker 3: Totally different movie if she leaves down that corridor and
Speaker 3: those great New York apartments, you know, like the New
Speaker 3: York apartments. Just it's a character. It's so extraordinary, the
Speaker 3: role that plays. And he sits on the couch, she
Speaker 3: comes around. It's just perfect cinema. In those corridors. Remind
Speaker 3: me of you know, how Woody Allen stoles so much
Speaker 3: of that stuff from Bergmann. You know, I've used in
Speaker 3: those corridors and that apartment to tell so much of
Speaker 3: the story. And Woody Allen, I think, you know, Hannah
Speaker 3: and her sister's Annie Hall. He kind of, you know,
Speaker 3: around the same time, was doing the slightly ambiguous romantic
Speaker 3: comedy as well. Annie Hall's a film about two people
Speaker 3: that kind of become friends at the end, you know.
Speaker 2: You know, Okay, we tried. You're weird, You're weird.
Speaker 3: I don't think this is going to work out, but
Speaker 3: I'll I'll always be in your life because you are amazing.
Speaker 3: And it's like this kind of slightly melancholy romantic comedy,
Speaker 3: you know, And the same with Hannah and her sisters
Speaker 3: was like that.
Speaker 2: And what was the other one?
Speaker 3: I was just thinking about a kind of a similar
Speaker 3: nineties romantic comedy that kind of ends in that kind
Speaker 3: of kind of way. And I thought about Spotlight actually
Speaker 3: while I was watching it, because I thought, that's another
Speaker 3: news movie said in Boston about you know, the pedophile
Speaker 3: ring within the Catholic church, and and just how different
Speaker 3: that kind of the tone and aggressiveness of that movie is.
Speaker 3: And I love movies, you know, back in that time
Speaker 3: that gave characters so much time, and I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I talked to my nephews about films and stuff like that,
Speaker 3: and you know, and a lot of young people like.
Speaker 2: Why is it taking so much time for them to
Speaker 2: get into it?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 3: And we used to build movies through character and world
Speaker 3: and just give the audience more grayness and time and
Speaker 3: now we're like smack bang.
Speaker 1: You can see the influence James L. Brooks has had
Speaker 1: on someone like Judd Apatow. Yeah, because you always say,
Speaker 1: why does Jad Appetel's films need to be over two hours?
Speaker 1: And you know films are over to our listen sometimes
Speaker 1: and sometimes I feel the criticism may be warranted with
Speaker 1: jud Apetel's films when it's just an ad lib fest,
Speaker 1: when it's just like I reckon, there's there's sharper stuff
Speaker 1: throughout this movie that you know, and sometimes you know
Speaker 1: there's there's some lovely moments and that's those that's creative.
Speaker 1: But I feel like I'm okay. I'm personally okay with it.
Speaker 1: But I yeah, I remember up about our saying people say,
Speaker 1: why are your films so long? It's up because I'm
Speaker 1: dealing with the biggest things in the world. I'm dealing
Speaker 1: with love and loss and you know, like these James
Speaker 1: similar things that James L. Brooks I think deals with
Speaker 1: UH And I think I think James L. Brooks has
Speaker 1: more to say, though I think I certainly broadcast.
Speaker 2: Know.
Speaker 3: I still think Abata's films often run out with thirty
Speaker 3: seven minutes left and then it just goes to kind
Speaker 3: of penis jokes, and.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's some films like This is forty,
Speaker 1: I feel like so funny people. I think was one
Speaker 1: film where I think probably Jadapeta had James L. Brooks
Speaker 1: in the back of his head, like I feel like
Speaker 1: he was trying to say something yeah a lot more.
Speaker 2: And which he did knocked Up, like, and I know that,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: I think Je's films have more in them some people
Speaker 1: give him credit for.
Speaker 3: Because he was talking about, you know, when him and
Speaker 3: his wife got pregnant and they were living in this
Speaker 3: house with stoners and they had no idea, you know,
Speaker 3: like what do we do? And that has that film
Speaker 3: and knocked Up, Yeah, and that has that sense and
Speaker 3: you can tell it comes from an authentic place.
Speaker 1: What does that seem I think it's knocked up? Is
Speaker 1: that this is what he is that I think it's
Speaker 1: knocked up with Paul rud and Leslie Man a married couple,
Speaker 1: because I think they're married in that movie and then
Speaker 1: they yeah yeah, And there's a great scene in the
Speaker 1: driveway where it's like she thinks he's having an affair,
Speaker 1: but he's going off and doing fantasy football. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he has to admit that's what he's been doing. And
Speaker 1: he's just like, sometimes I just want to you know,
Speaker 1: the kids and all that. It's so hard and I
Speaker 1: just want to go. And you know, last week I
Speaker 1: watch Spider Man by myself and she's and she's almost
Speaker 1: like there are times where I want to watch Spider Man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I like, I remember watching that and I almost
Speaker 1: cried because I know I was going through a stage.
Speaker 1: I young kids, and I often leave work early. When
Speaker 1: I was working on on Rod, leave an hour early
Speaker 1: and go see you and go see a film just
Speaker 1: because I like I needed something that wasn't home. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't because my mind am I So.
Speaker 3: That you think it is grade at home? Yeah, so
Speaker 3: that you can do because you love them so much.
Speaker 1: But that's a hard discussion to have. I need this.
Speaker 1: It's not because you know bridges at home. You know.
Speaker 2: One of the you earned a massage joint.
Speaker 1: Not that time, not that time. I'll see Spider Man.
Speaker 1: But how good? Yeah? And James J. Brooks is just
Speaker 1: there's all these details in his movies that could easily
Speaker 1: be taken out in an out. But you can imagine
Speaker 1: people saying over your shoulder, Do you need that? Which
Speaker 1: sometimes yeah, it's always worth asking, but sometimes a character, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's all these little moments, her looking at
Speaker 1: the when she hears the door and she thinks, you know,
Speaker 1: William Hurts walked through and she he hasn't. And and
Speaker 1: William Hurt holding the kettle with his with his sleeve,
Speaker 1: and the older guy we've never seen before calling home
Speaker 1: asking his wife's there or something, and you know.
Speaker 3: Her storming in and abusing William Hurt and his dad's there,
Speaker 3: and then the dad said, I don't think that woman's
Speaker 3: ever going to be affectionate to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's like, what, yeah, you take that
Speaker 1: out of the movie and nothing happens, No exactly, but
Speaker 1: it's there and something happens.
Speaker 3: And there's that great comedy trope of just keep surprising
Speaker 3: the audience every five pages with something, just another big moment,
Speaker 3: big revelation, big twist.
Speaker 2: You know that.
Speaker 3: You go, oh god, I thought I was watching Oh
Speaker 3: I thought I was watching that all I thought I
Speaker 3: was watching that.
Speaker 1: How good is Holy Hunter? By the way, the three
Speaker 1: of them are fantastic, but how good is it? And
Speaker 1: this is a very rare role for a woman in
Speaker 1: the nine to eighty seven I had this complicated center
Speaker 1: at this absolute send, not necessarily in a movie that
Speaker 1: says she will only be whole once she gets together
Speaker 1: with a very handsome American successful man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know, pretty ahead of his time because
Speaker 3: rom Gons had to catch up again ten years ago,
Speaker 3: you know, and they're still doing it.
Speaker 1: But how satisfying is that when there is a sexiness
Speaker 1: to a character that comes from who they are as
Speaker 1: a person, as opposed to they're looking hot in a shot,
Speaker 1: you know, a shot skirt or something, you know, like
Speaker 1: whatever it might or a sex scene. You know, like
Speaker 1: it's like she's sexy because she is good at her
Speaker 1: job and complicated and real vulnerable, all exact flawed and
Speaker 1: actively flawed, yes, you know, and active flaws driving drama.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's just that's writing. That's great writing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she gets the role. She hadn't done much. She
Speaker 1: did she did Raising Arizona the same year.
Speaker 2: Oh is that wrong?
Speaker 1: Yeah, in nine eighty seven, Raising Arizona, of course with
Speaker 1: the Coen Brothers. She did a voice in Barton Fink.
Speaker 1: She did some TV credits and yeah great, Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: not get started on button, I think, but she she
Speaker 1: Basically they Debra Winger was the first choice for the
Speaker 1: role share the pull out. I think she was pregnant.
Speaker 1: They did a massive search. They went through all the
Speaker 1: Alis actors though three days out from shooting apparently, and
Speaker 1: these stories, like.
Speaker 3: I remember, I was telling me the fatal Attraction story,
Speaker 3: you know, because she'd done.
Speaker 2: Well that so that that big chill and they were.
Speaker 3: Like, you know, you're warm, You're warm in a cashmere jumper.
Speaker 3: You're the loving warm woman. She's like, let me, let
Speaker 3: me and beg for the audition. I think turned up.
Speaker 3: I think Santa Tapean turned up. And when you will
Speaker 3: see me and they're like, no, you're warm, wholesome, you know,
Speaker 3: big chill. And she's like, give me a shot. And
Speaker 3: then she sat there and did that scene where she
Speaker 3: turns the lights on and off, and they went, oh,
Speaker 3: my god, changed your career forever.
Speaker 1: She got nominated that year eight So in eighty seven,
Speaker 1: one eighty, I'll get to the Oscars that year because
Speaker 1: it's quite an interesting thing. But your Holy Hunter goes
Speaker 1: to the audition. Basically, they've seen everybody else, They said,
Speaker 1: is there anyone else? And she arrives the person who
Speaker 1: greets people thought she was a PA and she goes, actually, no,
Speaker 1: I'm here to She hit an audition. She gets the
Speaker 1: role almost immediately. She starts rehearsing. The next day, she's filming.
Speaker 1: Three days later. At the end of the first week filming,
Speaker 1: she I think has she actually has a breakdown. She
Speaker 1: blames on the medical illness and and and bronchitis or something,
Speaker 1: and William Hurt says to her, no, you're scared, and
Speaker 1: Holy Hunter said, it changed everything. It changed the dynamic
Speaker 1: between her and William Hurt because she said, in that moment,
Speaker 1: William Hurt saw through her. He wasn't saying her yeah,
Speaker 1: he saw her, and he wasn't saying as in like.
Speaker 3: A condescending way, condesce anyway. It's like, it's okay, he's
Speaker 3: probably saying I'm scared too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And it's like and that and that is
Speaker 1: where that you talk about the chemistry between them. It starts.
Speaker 1: It starts from that.
Speaker 3: That's why I never get nervous in front of other
Speaker 3: movie stars. Not other movie stars, movie stars and actors,
Speaker 3: no matter who. I've met Hoffman's and I was a
Speaker 3: bit nervous in front of Hoffman, but he's directing me.
Speaker 3: But yeah, Brad, you know whenever I met because I
Speaker 3: just go, I know that you're just as scared as
Speaker 3: I am when the movie rolls, and I know that
Speaker 3: you're just as scared with your next part. And I
Speaker 3: know you're trying to be brilliant, and I know you're
Speaker 3: trying to do a good job and make sure everyone
Speaker 3: thinks you're believable and that the next job is the
Speaker 3: most scary one you've ever done. And every actor is
Speaker 3: the same, and so I never get nervous because I
Speaker 3: look in their eye and go, yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: I literally, I literally listened to an interview with George
Speaker 1: Clooney on Make Marin's WTF podcast yesterday and he was
Speaker 1: saying exactly that, Well, George Clooney, he's intimidated by other actors,
Speaker 1: you know, and you know, he's been wiped off the
Speaker 1: floor by young actors, you know, act that he hadn't
Speaker 1: heard of it had come along, and yeah, and he's.
Speaker 3: I don't know if I'm saying that. I'm just saying, like,
Speaker 3: I don't, I know, not to revere them because they're
Speaker 3: so vulnerable. And that's you know, our feelings are on
Speaker 3: the surface, and we live in a state of fear
Speaker 3: that we'll get it. We're going to get it right,
Speaker 3: and we'll be able to expose it, We'll be able
Speaker 3: to are we going to be able to nail it
Speaker 3: and tell the story? And I don't necessarily worry if
Speaker 3: an actor is going to wipe the floor with me,
Speaker 3: because I don't think of it in those terms of
Speaker 3: who's better. I'm just like, I know you are just
Speaker 3: as shit scared as the guy coming out of film school.
Speaker 1: And good actors I assume I and you've worked with
Speaker 1: a lot more actors and done a lot more acting,
Speaker 1: by a whole country more than I have. But I imagine
Speaker 1: good actors know that we're we're in we are in
Speaker 1: this together like we are. We are trying to create
Speaker 1: a piece of work here. And if you're if I'm
Speaker 1: no good for you and you're not good for me,
Speaker 1: this is not going to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and if you come into an acting job going
Speaker 3: so I just want to let you guys know I've
Speaker 3: kind of got this nailed.
Speaker 2: I know my character.
Speaker 3: I know I'm going to do this funny walk, I'm
Speaker 3: going to throw those looks so I don't know what
Speaker 3: you guys are doing, but I'm sortied.
Speaker 1: Like there's no discussions.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you have to be vulnerable for it to work.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, Whereas when I'm around musicians, I'm so nervous.
Speaker 3: I'm like, how do you do the thing you do
Speaker 3: because I'm a failed musician, you know. With actors, I'm like,
Speaker 3: hey man, how you going?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. I love seeing actors like on set
Speaker 1: who are comfortable, like not like coming into going I've
Speaker 1: got all this, you know, like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Like comfortable in the vulnerability, yes, comfortable in the unknown, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3: And the best actors are like, the best actors are
Speaker 3: kind listening, scared, yeah you know, and you say, and
Speaker 3: then I'm talking about the really successful ones. Really really
Speaker 3: they're bloody lovely, they're bloody curious.
Speaker 2: And it's like it's their first day on set. Yeah.
Speaker 3: But I mean they're confident, yeah, absolutely, but they're open, yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, and that's why they're good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, mate, Pete thinklige is did you know who's doing Sereno? Yes?
Speaker 1: I was nearly in that, which basically it'spectially especially a
Speaker 1: sequel to I Love You Too, isn't it isn't it
Speaker 1: has that been around for a bit longer. I mean
Speaker 1: it's about basically.
Speaker 2: Because he's putting the words in his mouth.
Speaker 1: Yes, well, sir, and I was, you know, an inspiration
Speaker 1: for I Love You Too. And now.
Speaker 2: Steve Martin does a great one, doesn't.
Speaker 1: He Broxne and yeah, it's great. Now he's got to
Speaker 1: look forward to seeing that. I just thought I quickly
Speaker 1: mentioned it, but I want to talk about it before
Speaker 1: we let you go. The nineteen eighty eight Oscars hosted
Speaker 1: by Chevy Chase. Do you know who won the Best
Speaker 1: Picture of You? It's a film that nobody is seen,
Speaker 1: like nobody like. It's a well regarded film, but like
Speaker 1: it does, it doesn't go expert, It doesn't get I
Speaker 1: don't know when you're in a team or teh.
Speaker 2: What was it.
Speaker 1: Last Emperor BERNARDOUCHI that nominally for nine Oscars, that it
Speaker 1: was up against broadcast News, Fatal Attraction, Hope and Glory
Speaker 1: and Moonstruck and Glory. I must say it wasn't It didn't.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like a banner year for the Oscars.
Speaker 1: The good character good movies, yeah, good good good adult
Speaker 1: good adult movies.
Speaker 2: Hope and glory.
Speaker 3: That's not Matthew Broderck. Yeah, Matthew Roderick on a horse. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's Matthew broder gonna.
Speaker 1: Hold no, hang on a secon. That's glory.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I I was thinking it was Matthew.
Speaker 2: Broderck and horse in glory, which just looks because what's
Speaker 2: fairest doing on a horse in the war.
Speaker 1: It was a big shift, Yeah, maybe too big a shift.
Speaker 1: I love Matthew Roderick.
Speaker 2: You can count on me how good is he?
Speaker 3: And you can count on me as the boss who's
Speaker 3: upset with all the fonts on the screen.
Speaker 2: So into my office? Yeah, what fun to are you using?
Speaker 2: He's amazing in that?
Speaker 1: And ruffo ruffle is that isn't Lord Lenny, Lord Lenny
Speaker 1: laud Lannie is so good in that. So their brother
Speaker 1: brother sister, No, no brother sister. It starts ruf car crash. Ye,
Speaker 1: parents died in a car crash. They were in the back.
Speaker 1: They survived. He's trouble. She's got a son, a mccaulkin,
Speaker 1: a Coulcin. They're everywhere now.
Speaker 3: She's got a Colkin son. Yes, and she's a bit
Speaker 3: She's working at a bank. And this is Kieren Colkan
Speaker 3: isn't it. It's Kieran Con He's amazing, Yeah, because.
Speaker 2: She's like, you got your backpack, it's a knapsack. It's
Speaker 2: not a backpack.
Speaker 1: Mom's knapsack.
Speaker 3: And she and he just falls in love and he
Speaker 3: Marc Ofolo comes back from Alaska. He's got to get
Speaker 3: some money, I think to post back to a girl.
Speaker 3: Something's happened. He's been out in jail.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's like a black sheep.
Speaker 3: Brother admits to her and he smokes the joint before
Speaker 3: he has lunch with her.
Speaker 2: And it's so beautiful.
Speaker 1: That it's Kenneth long Agan. It's Manchester recently my weekly.
Speaker 1: My seventeen year old son has seen it, like watch
Speaker 1: Manchester to see like a few times now and just
Speaker 1: loves it.
Speaker 3: It's what you can count on me if you haven't listeners.
Speaker 2: It is incredible, It really is.
Speaker 1: But literally wins the James Job. Brooks does not get nominated.
Speaker 1: This is the whole comedy being judged differently, even though
Speaker 1: you're got to argue that there's a lot more. This
Speaker 1: is not a straight out comedy broadcast news and then
Speaker 1: like a lot of directors who wouldn't be necessary household
Speaker 1: names for our listeners. Adrian Lynn for a Fatal Attraction
Speaker 1: gets nominated and he has done nine and a half weeks.
Speaker 1: He's done Flash Dance. He went under those indecent proposal, unfaithful.
Speaker 1: He obviously had an area that he was comfortable. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's interesting because there is a bias against movies
Speaker 1: outside of Europe. I think that deal with sex. Do
Speaker 1: you think like that? It's hard. I feel like any
Speaker 1: movie that looks at sex and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: at the forefront, feels like they get kind of derided
Speaker 1: a little bit that come out of America. Well, those films.
Speaker 3: Maybe videotapes changed that a lot. One Sun Dance and
Speaker 3: people went, well, a movie about sex. Yeah, completely kind
Speaker 3: of rocked to America. Really small movie about sex really
Speaker 3: rocked American. But American sexuality is so weird.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, they are freaks. And then John Borman
Speaker 1: wants It's hope and glory. He made the Tailor of Panama.
Speaker 1: Later on the exos to Norman Jewison had had he
Speaker 1: had made. He'd been nominated for the Heat of the
Speaker 1: Night and Filler on the Roof. He did Moonstruck and
Speaker 1: Lassie Halstrom. Of course, My life is a Dog Swedish starling.
Speaker 3: He's just making a film now with from my friend
Speaker 3: Maeve Dermody's in it.
Speaker 1: Oh really Yeah, he's making a.
Speaker 2: Film in Sweden.
Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, so you'll know his filmed or he's more
Speaker 1: English language film. Side of House rules shock a lot,
Speaker 1: and what's itating gilber Great Michael Douglas win to Fatal
Speaker 1: Attraction up against.
Speaker 2: How does Glenn not win?
Speaker 1: Well, Glenn Glenda Glen does not win close for Fatal Attraction,
Speaker 1: she loses the share So Share one for Moonstruck beats
Speaker 1: Holy Hunter Glenn Close, Sally Kirtlin for a film called Anna.
Speaker 1: She played the title role.
Speaker 2: Look if I good turn back time, I would give it.
Speaker 1: He would give the oscar to Glenn. Yeah, if you
Speaker 1: would give the oscar Glens and Sean Connery wins for
Speaker 1: The Untouched was which I have no problem with. Adolf
Speaker 1: for Best Supporting Actor beats Albert Brooks, Morgan Freeman, Vincent Gardenia,
Speaker 1: and Denzel Washington for crist Freedom. And just before we go,
Speaker 1: one thing, we should mention Jack Nicholson in.
Speaker 2: This Why that's what I meant to mention? How crazy
Speaker 2: is that Jack Nicholson's in this.
Speaker 1: Movie was not credited in any of the marketing or
Speaker 1: poster and in fact refused to be paid for it.
Speaker 1: Did it as a favorite obviously in terms of indeement,
Speaker 1: but like.
Speaker 2: What did you what was he coming out of at
Speaker 2: that time?
Speaker 1: Was he big? Well, he wasn't mean, but he did
Speaker 1: terms of indiement, he must have made like you know,
Speaker 1: this is he's something shining.
Speaker 2: It's you.
Speaker 1: He's done this Jack, He's on all those seventies films.
Speaker 2: He's done forty.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's on one flo floor of the Cookie's Nest.
Speaker 1: He's done. He's done, you know the last detail. He's done.
Speaker 1: Like some of them aren't necessary massive films, but he's done.
Speaker 2: He goes to work with this director and I think he's.
Speaker 1: Under a fab in ninety seventeen years later, ten years later,
Speaker 1: so it.
Speaker 2: Hasn't done and you can handle the truth that's later.
Speaker 1: That's about five years. I reckon it's ninety two. But
Speaker 1: did you find it? Did you? I found it distracting.
Speaker 1: You have to when one of the acts is too famous,
Speaker 1: So why And it's not a massive problem, but I
Speaker 1: just think I was expecting more when he comes back
Speaker 1: to the retrenchments and He's like, I'm going to take
Speaker 1: everyone out. Okay, that's going to be He's going to
Speaker 1: have He's going to impact our story. Yeah, this doesn't
Speaker 1: impact the story in any way. Like that could have
Speaker 1: been played by a character actor.
Speaker 2: But it's the gravitas.
Speaker 1: Oh he does that, and you understand why I.
Speaker 2: Think it's with another actor.
Speaker 3: You go, Okay, there's the news there's the news man.
Speaker 3: When it's Jack, the stakes are higher, and the fact
Speaker 3: that they're trying to get his approval and he never
Speaker 3: likes anything, and he says to her, why don't you
Speaker 3: come up to New York. She goes, I didn't right
Speaker 3: the whole story. I just worked on it. And he
Speaker 3: goes call me, you know, and you go.
Speaker 2: He liked it. He liked it.
Speaker 3: And the fact that he's the god and he's the
Speaker 3: one that kind of says to you know, his minions,
Speaker 3: I accept you.
Speaker 2: We will do this.
Speaker 1: You know. Jack gives that, and and that scene where
Speaker 1: he talks to Holy Hunter but not Albert Brooks, and
Speaker 1: then that beautiful actor where Albert Aaron whispers to Jane,
Speaker 1: yeah my heart is broken, but just sathingly funny and
Speaker 1: laugh out loud, and she does it in such a
Speaker 1: great way. And then it's it's so it's so beautiful, but.
Speaker 2: They would have gone in for half a day, two days,
Speaker 2: two days.
Speaker 1: They get and kept all his suits. The one other
Speaker 1: little I think think I want to go about The
Speaker 1: Holy Hunter is the crying. Like, you're such a brilliant actor,
Speaker 1: what like, explain how hard that is one just crying?
Speaker 1: But she's crying with no external provocation.
Speaker 3: But female actors are insanely good at it. Like, and
Speaker 3: what I like about her crying is it's not poor
Speaker 3: me crying. It's I'm so invested in this and I'm
Speaker 3: so lost and I'm so passionate about it. It's like
Speaker 3: it's it's almost comic in the way that she cries
Speaker 3: in different moments, and her crying is active and it's
Speaker 3: got story in it. Yeah, while she's crying, you know,
Speaker 3: whereas we see so many crying scenes where I go,
Speaker 3: I'd love to see another choice. You know, I think
Speaker 3: there's way too much crying.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I remember seeing that show The Sinner Jessica Biel. She
Speaker 3: cries in every scene. I think it should have been
Speaker 3: called the Sobber. She's just crying, and I'm like, come on, guys,
Speaker 3: let's have some other scenes that doesn't have crying. I
Speaker 3: know it's a tough time, but also when you get
Speaker 3: a bit more used to tragedy, you do stop crying
Speaker 3: and you're hard en up, and you know, that's more
Speaker 3: interesting for me to watch people trying not to cry.
Speaker 1: It's really interesting people see people trying not to cry
Speaker 1: is way more powerful than seeing people crying. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love it in Shine where where Noah hits the
Speaker 3: ground and this single tear comes out of his thing
Speaker 3: his head and he knows where he's you know that
Speaker 3: the rest of his life's already ordained, and like really
Speaker 3: interesting choices with crying, I think good not choices.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's just what happened. But I'm not a great crier.
Speaker 3: I can work myself up by putting the headphones on,
Speaker 3: getting the cat power playing, you know, channeling heart.
Speaker 1: Bro're behind a curtain now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, channel Yeah, we're in the actor studio.
Speaker 3: And I can go, okay, I'm ready and roll camera
Speaker 3: and I'll fucking go and I'll get to sobbing and
Speaker 3: there'll be snot and that's but then once that takes done,
Speaker 3: I'm probably done for the day.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I can't like I'm cried out.
Speaker 3: If that's Monday, I can maybe cry again on Thursday and.
Speaker 2: That's me done.
Speaker 3: So if you want one, give me half an hour
Speaker 3: and then I'll come at you as a noise canceling headphones.
Speaker 2: You know, it's canceling headphones.
Speaker 3: And then you know, I'll need to go for a swim,
Speaker 3: and then I need to go see my mom and then.
Speaker 2: You know, But these actors can, they can whack it.
Speaker 3: I remember Patrick Bramble and Ruben Guthrie telling the story
Speaker 3: of his friend died. He just went bang bang fourteen
Speaker 3: takes in a row, like yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: I can't do that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm guilty of grabbing the tear stick and rubbing
Speaker 3: it under the eyes, no problem.
Speaker 1: I spoke to a director a little while ago who
Speaker 1: said they worked with an actress who was wonderful, like
Speaker 1: a really gave a stony performance, but but she literally
Speaker 1: cried in every scene. Like they're not scenes where there's
Speaker 1: no reason they had to c g I out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, does it all the time. She loves to cry.
Speaker 3: But it's like it's not their fault, it's director, and
Speaker 3: it's just like don't smile on every seen like let's
Speaker 3: have some different stuff, you know. And and but I
Speaker 3: don't think it's anyone's fault because I think people have
Speaker 3: been told that that's what acting is.
Speaker 2: Actings crying. How often do you cry as a human,
Speaker 2: like not heaps?
Speaker 1: I've had three crists today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're doing a podcast with me, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean?
Speaker 1: So?
Speaker 3: Why why are we seeing someone's crying when crying is such.
Speaker 2: A rare thing in life? Yeah, you know, like it's
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 3: Think sometimes I cry, you know, text him a nephew
Speaker 3: and he got a job of McDonald's in the nugget section,
Speaker 3: and I'm like.
Speaker 2: I'm texting you know sometimes I have an amazing apple.
Speaker 3: You look at the stripes on a beetle and you cry,
Speaker 3: and you go, fucking hell, how good are beatles?
Speaker 1: Is that weird tear? That this comes down with no
Speaker 1: no reason.
Speaker 2: That's interesting to me, Like, what's going on there? Why
Speaker 2: did that come up? Maybe you're happy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's tear that falls down.
Speaker 2: It's like.
Speaker 1: There's no sadness that I'm aware of in me at
Speaker 1: the moment, and.
Speaker 2: It just just meant something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, mate, it is so good to see
Speaker 1: you in the flesh I'm glad we were able to
Speaker 1: do this. Person. Thank you so much for doing your
Speaker 1: homework and watching. I know it comes with homework broadcast.
Speaker 1: It is great homework. I gave it a big plug
Speaker 1: at the start. But your book Plum, which I have
Speaker 1: spoken to you personally, well, so I was quarantining with COVID.
Speaker 1: I ripped through it and it is extraordinary. It is
Speaker 1: another extraordinary addition to a conversation about masculinely in Australia.
Speaker 1: You have a main line into what it means to
Speaker 1: be an Australian male battling demons in suburbia. And it
Speaker 1: is and it is funny, it is heartbreaking, It pulls
Speaker 1: at all the right things and it's wholly original.
Speaker 2: Oh thanks man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's out there in the bookstores now. And you know,
Speaker 3: I got a DM from a lady this morning who said,
Speaker 3: you know, I know what to do with my boy
Speaker 3: who's in year eleven. Now I'm going to give him words.
Speaker 3: I'm going to talk to him about words. And it's
Speaker 3: just like a suck. Start crying at that because I'm
Speaker 3: like that, really, at the end of the day, I've
Speaker 3: got a bit of money, I'm okay, I've got a house.
Speaker 2: If I can do that, like I really am, just
Speaker 2: like you know.
Speaker 3: And a guy said he listened to me on ABC
Speaker 3: Conversations and he played it to the Year nine boys
Speaker 3: and said, this is how men can talk to each other,
Speaker 3: Me and Richard Weidler, and it's like, you know, plumb Peter,
Speaker 3: the plumb lum rugby league play with concussion issues. He's
Speaker 3: probably going to die, and he's like, how do I
Speaker 3: not die? I've got to change? How do I change?
Speaker 3: I might have to not do what I've been doing
Speaker 3: my whole bloody life. Oh shit, do I reach out?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: I Hi drink run? That didn't work. What do I
Speaker 2: do share?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: I can't do that? Hi drink run? Okay, maybe I'll share.
Speaker 3: How do I do that?
Speaker 2: Write some stuff down, you know, and some dead poets
Speaker 2: come in and help him.
Speaker 3: And it's really hard and not just men women, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, like humans, human behavior.
Speaker 2: It's so hard to share our confusion.
Speaker 3: And maybe that's right and down, maybe it's you know,
Speaker 3: whatever it is for different people.
Speaker 2: But I love that.
Speaker 3: It's you know, the reviews are great that you know,
Speaker 3: online and print and people are loving it. But I
Speaker 3: just love hearing from people the actual effect that it's had,
Speaker 3: and they've that it's.
Speaker 2: Been of use.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and that's really more and more just
Speaker 3: what I want my art to be.
Speaker 2: I just want it to be of use to people.
Speaker 1: Well, it's fascinating because it's it's a it's about a man.
Speaker 1: They're trying to make a big change in his life.
Speaker 1: And I feel like you do get to an age
Speaker 1: where you're like, oh, well, this is who I am,
Speaker 1: and it could be as simple as you know, the
Speaker 1: way what you weigh or the way you dress, and
Speaker 1: you're going to go, well, I can't. I've just like
Speaker 1: this my whole life. I'm not going to I wrack
Speaker 1: up in a Hawaiian shirt now. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's kind of a coming out story Peter Plum love,
Speaker 3: Yeah it is. He's not going guys, I love her.
Speaker 3: He's going all write poems sometimes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I expectence.
Speaker 3: You know, he's got a barret on, he's having a
Speaker 3: gabinet instead of the schoon. That's you know, it's just
Speaker 3: like it's really hard to change, you know, but he
Speaker 3: has to or he'll die. And are those guys that
Speaker 3: are with you on the punt and on the piss.
Speaker 3: You know that we have those mates? Are they there
Speaker 3: and not when life comes a knocking because you're in trouble, mate,
Speaker 3: can you use those mates?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: Who can you use? Because you can't do it alone
Speaker 3: in this world. You need connection, connections the opposite of fear.
Speaker 3: You know, when you connect, the fear goes away. When
Speaker 3: there's other people you know who are going through what
Speaker 3: you're going through and you can share it with them,
Speaker 3: Suddenly you've got muscles in.
Speaker 2: The game, you know. And that's what I'm kind of
Speaker 2: trying to say. It's okay to admit your confusion and
Speaker 2: your weakness and your fear.
Speaker 1: Here here it is. It is brilliant. I highly recommend
Speaker 1: Plum in all the bookstores check it out or order
Speaker 1: book book Type is always a good place to order Melbourne.
Speaker 3: I've just gone the Reddings, Carlton and Avenue and the
Speaker 3: leaf Shop and yes, the Saurs, so there should be
Speaker 3: some Sewing copies all around Melbourne.
Speaker 1: Brilliant mate. I love you, Yeah, you.
Speaker 3: Too, my brother, Well do this every week if I could,
Speaker 3: I'll bring you back Lord of the Rings.
Speaker 2: Bloody Bagging's still in the cave. Big finish.
Speaker 1: That was fantastic Brendan Calee, bloody Hell. I love that
Speaker 1: movie Broadcast News. I really really enjoyed revisiting that, and
Speaker 1: I'm glad Brennan loved it as much as I did.
Speaker 1: So yes, just to repeat if you if you skipped
Speaker 1: through the first bit, we are coming back later in January.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to get this episode out one just
Speaker 1: to give you something to get you by, and also
Speaker 1: to promote Brennan's book Plumb. It is a fantastic book.
Speaker 1: Check it out. It's great for Christmas if you're looking
Speaker 1: for something to read over summer as well. So Plumb
Speaker 1: by Brennan cale in all good bookstores now. It is
Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant, already been nominated for various awards. And so
Speaker 1: we leave Old Pete safe and south, and
Speaker 3: To our friends of the radio audience, we've been a
Speaker 3: pleasant good night