Speaker 1: Today's episode is another my favorite Tip episode where I
Speaker 1: go back to interviews from the past and I dig
Speaker 1: out the thing that was my favorite tip, like the
Speaker 1: thing that I got out of the interview that really
Speaker 1: impacted or resonated with me. My extract on today's show
Speaker 1: is from my chat with Alison Watkins. So Allison is
Speaker 1: someone that I have admired for many years as really
Speaker 1: a very high profile female business leader in Australia. So
Speaker 1: Alison joined Coca Cola Amatal as Group Managing Director in
Speaker 1: March twenty fourteen. Prior to Coca Cola Amatal, Allison was
Speaker 1: the CEO of Agribusiness Grain Corps and of Berry, the
Speaker 1: market leader in Australian juice, and she was also the
Speaker 1: Managing Director of Regional Banking at A and Z. Alison
Speaker 1: also spent ten years at McKinsey and Company and became
Speaker 1: a partner of the firm before moving to A and
Speaker 1: Z as the group General Manager of Strategy. Allison has
Speaker 1: also been a non executive director of A and ZED,
Speaker 1: Woolworths and the Just Group quite the CV. So in
Speaker 1: this extract of my chat with Alison, we talk about
Speaker 1: how she thinks about receiving negative feedback. So as you
Speaker 1: can imagine, being a high profile leader and female business leader,
Speaker 1: she's received a lot of negative feedback over her career,
Speaker 1: and I was fascinated to hear about how she decides
Speaker 1: what to take on and what not to take on,
Speaker 1: and also what to do with the negative feedback that
Speaker 1: she does listen to. So let's head on over to Alison,
Speaker 1: and I guess, like on the topic of you know,
Speaker 1: receiving bad news and negative feedback, I imagine you know, given
Speaker 1: how public your roles are and still are, that you've
Speaker 1: told you you've probably received a lot of negative feedback
Speaker 1: from people you know over the course of your career.
Speaker 1: And what's your approach to taking on board negative feedback
Speaker 1: and deciding even whether it's worthy of being applied or actioned.
Speaker 2: I certainly used to be very very much, I guess
Speaker 2: when I worked at McKinsey for a few years what
Speaker 2: we used to describe as an insecure overachiever. So there
Speaker 2: was a level of insecurity that makes you, and certainly
Speaker 2: made me very.
Speaker 3: Very much somebody who wanted to please. And then as.
Speaker 2: A result of that, you realize that by being in
Speaker 2: that mindset of I want to meet or exceed expectations,
Speaker 2: you are then very vulnerable to the judgments of other people.
Speaker 2: And I never really sort of appreciated that until I
Speaker 2: went through some really good leadership development work, probably twenty
Speaker 2: years ago or so, and I realized that you really
Speaker 2: need to think about if you're exposing yourself to the
Speaker 2: judgment of others in that way, that is a it's
Speaker 2: really an untenable position because those people who pass judgment
Speaker 2: may actually not have particularly good judgment, they may not
Speaker 2: be well informed. And as you go into more increasingly
Speaker 2: senior roles, there are lots of people with lots of
Speaker 2: different judgments, so it would become an impossible not that
Speaker 2: you would tie yourself into because you just can't please everybody.
Speaker 2: So I think I've become a lot better at accepting
Speaker 2: that not everybody is going to agree with the choices
Speaker 2: that I make, or the things that I say, or
Speaker 2: the things that I do, and to think about the
Speaker 2: people that I care about and value their judgment the most,
Speaker 2: because I think they are well placed to be wise
Speaker 2: or considered, and so therefore their feedback is actually really
Speaker 2: important to me. And to try not to leave myself
Speaker 2: vulnerable to the judgments of the sort of broader, less
Speaker 2: informed people, but to accept that you will get that,
Speaker 2: and also to try to embrace a bit of a
Speaker 2: mindset of if that there's something to learn in everything
Speaker 2: negative that you do here, and you know it may be,
Speaker 2: for example, that what we didn't could do a better
Speaker 2: job of communicating is this person they are speaking up.
Speaker 3: Sometimes that takes courage.
Speaker 2: If it was in an organization or setting, somebody who
Speaker 2: criticizes a decision or a direction, that can take a
Speaker 2: lot of courage. So you don't necessarily just want to
Speaker 2: ignore it or jump on it. You want to sort
Speaker 2: of reflect on it and say, well, is there something
Speaker 2: that we should be learning from that?
Speaker 3: But to not allow yourself to be your own self
Speaker 3: worth to.
Speaker 2: Be a function of what other people are saying, unless
Speaker 2: they are that small number of people that you know
Speaker 2: whose opinion you really really consider is important.
Speaker 1: And how did you get to that point of being
Speaker 1: able to actually not let all negative feedback get to
Speaker 1: you and take that personally like where there some sort
Speaker 1: of some key moments along the way where that happen,
Speaker 1: or strategies that you use because I think that's really sensible,
Speaker 1: you know, really picking and choosing who you do actually
Speaker 1: listen to so to speak with negative feedback. But it
Speaker 1: can be really hard to distance yourself from negative feedback,
Speaker 1: even when you know that it's not, you know, worth
Speaker 1: listening to so to speak.
Speaker 3: I think there are a few formative things. I remember
Speaker 3: when I was at a and said we in the LSI,
Speaker 3: and that was.
Speaker 2: One of the first sort of kind of leadership feedback.
Speaker 3: Style feedback exercises i'd been through.
Speaker 2: So I sat down with the facilitator and she showed
Speaker 2: me that my team had rated me quite strongly on
Speaker 2: the various leadership attributes, but I rated myself much less strongly,
Speaker 2: And I was secretly thinking that's a good thing, because
Speaker 2: it shows that I'm modest. I'm not somebody who bignotes
Speaker 2: themselves and ticks the extremely very strongly agree boxes.
Speaker 3: I don't have a big ego, was how I saw it.
Speaker 2: She really explained to me, though, that actually that was
Speaker 2: a negative thing, that I had.
Speaker 3: This sort of minimalist view of myself, because it meant
Speaker 3: that I wouldn't be I wouldn't be sort of strong enough,
Speaker 3: assertive enough, demanding enough in context for example, where I
Speaker 3: needed to set my team up for success. And make
Speaker 3: sure we had the resources we needed or we didn't
Speaker 3: get sort of pushed into targets that were impossible that
Speaker 3: I needed to be able to be as stronger and
Speaker 3: assertive as a leader. And that really made me reflect on, yes,
Speaker 3: that sort of perception that I had of myself. And
Speaker 3: then I'd say, another piece of leadership development work that
Speaker 3: I did back in the early days, again with John
Speaker 3: McFarlane at A and Z, was really about this idea
Speaker 3: of everything that happens to you to embrace accountability for
Speaker 3: yourself and instead of blaming others or blaming externalities or
Speaker 3: the weather or COVID nineteen or whatever you want to blame,
Speaker 3: or you know, somebody who made a stupid decision before
Speaker 3: you joined, to take responsibility. To have a mindset of
Speaker 3: taking responsibility for everything.
Speaker 2: That happens to you, even the things that are negative things,
Speaker 2: and to ask why was that thing sent to me,
Speaker 2: Why did that happen, what was it sent to teach me?
Speaker 2: And to really try to take that mindset of I'm
Speaker 2: in control. I may not be in control of everything
Speaker 2: that happens to me, but I can control my reactions.
Speaker 3: I can choose how to respond.
Speaker 2: I have choices in this situation and there's something to
Speaker 2: learn from it. And so that has been a really
Speaker 2: important mindset for me in making sure I never allow.
Speaker 3: Myself or try not to allow myself to feel.
Speaker 2: Like a victim, because I think then you're disempowered when
Speaker 2: you feel that way. And I think the final thing
Speaker 2: which I have found really helpful to think about is
Speaker 2: to think about the five people that you are surrounding
Speaker 2: yourself with, the five people who have the most that
Speaker 2: you spend the most time with, and really ask yourself,
Speaker 2: are those people that I will learn from and who
Speaker 2: can and help me grow and be a bit of person.
Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you want to
Speaker 1: listen to the full episode, I link to that in
Speaker 1: the show notes, so you might want to check that out.
Speaker 1: And if you are enjoying how I work, I would
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Speaker 1: left reviews. It is so deeply appreciated. So that is
Speaker 1: it for today's show and I will see you next time.