1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:09,440 Speaker 1: Today's episode is another my favorite Tip episode where I 2 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: go back to interviews from the past and I dig 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 1: out the thing that was my favorite tip, like the 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,280 Speaker 1: thing that I got out of the interview that really 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: impacted or resonated with me. My extract on today's show 6 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: is from my chat with Alison Watkins. So Allison is 7 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:38,480 Speaker 1: someone that I have admired for many years as really 8 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: a very high profile female business leader in Australia. So 9 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:45,440 Speaker 1: Alison joined Coca Cola Amatal as Group Managing Director in 10 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: March twenty fourteen. Prior to Coca Cola Amatal, Allison was 11 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,559 Speaker 1: the CEO of Agribusiness Grain Corps and of Berry, the 12 00:00:52,600 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: market leader in Australian juice, and she was also the 13 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 1: Managing Director of Regional Banking at A and Z. Alison 14 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 1: also spent ten years at McKinsey and Company and became 15 00:01:02,800 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: a partner of the firm before moving to A and 16 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,960 Speaker 1: Z as the group General Manager of Strategy. Allison has 17 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: also been a non executive director of A and ZED, 18 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: Woolworths and the Just Group quite the CV. So in 19 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: this extract of my chat with Alison, we talk about 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: how she thinks about receiving negative feedback. So as you 21 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: can imagine, being a high profile leader and female business leader, 22 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: she's received a lot of negative feedback over her career, 23 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: and I was fascinated to hear about how she decides 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,920 Speaker 1: what to take on and what not to take on, 25 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,320 Speaker 1: and also what to do with the negative feedback that 26 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: she does listen to. So let's head on over to Alison, 27 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: and I guess, like on the topic of you know, 28 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: receiving bad news and negative feedback, I imagine you know, given 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: how public your roles are and still are, that you've 30 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 1: told you you've probably received a lot of negative feedback 31 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: from people you know over the course of your career. 32 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 1: And what's your approach to taking on board negative feedback 33 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:13,240 Speaker 1: and deciding even whether it's worthy of being applied or actioned. 34 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 2: I certainly used to be very very much, I guess 35 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:23,679 Speaker 2: when I worked at McKinsey for a few years what 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 2: we used to describe as an insecure overachiever. So there 37 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: was a level of insecurity that makes you, and certainly 38 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 2: made me very. 39 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 3: Very much somebody who wanted to please. And then as. 40 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: A result of that, you realize that by being in 41 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,480 Speaker 2: that mindset of I want to meet or exceed expectations, 42 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: you are then very vulnerable to the judgments of other people. 43 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,080 Speaker 2: And I never really sort of appreciated that until I 44 00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: went through some really good leadership development work, probably twenty 45 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 2: years ago or so, and I realized that you really 46 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 2: need to think about if you're exposing yourself to the 47 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: judgment of others in that way, that is a it's 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 2: really an untenable position because those people who pass judgment 49 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: may actually not have particularly good judgment, they may not 50 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 2: be well informed. And as you go into more increasingly 51 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: senior roles, there are lots of people with lots of 52 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 2: different judgments, so it would become an impossible not that 53 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: you would tie yourself into because you just can't please everybody. 54 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: So I think I've become a lot better at accepting 55 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: that not everybody is going to agree with the choices 56 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 2: that I make, or the things that I say, or 57 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: the things that I do, and to think about the 58 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 2: people that I care about and value their judgment the most, 59 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: because I think they are well placed to be wise 60 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 2: or considered, and so therefore their feedback is actually really 61 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 2: important to me. And to try not to leave myself 62 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 2: vulnerable to the judgments of the sort of broader, less 63 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,440 Speaker 2: informed people, but to accept that you will get that, 64 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,599 Speaker 2: and also to try to embrace a bit of a 65 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: mindset of if that there's something to learn in everything 66 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,760 Speaker 2: negative that you do here, and you know it may be, 67 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: for example, that what we didn't could do a better 68 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 2: job of communicating is this person they are speaking up. 69 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 3: Sometimes that takes courage. 70 00:04:48,720 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 2: If it was in an organization or setting, somebody who 71 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 2: criticizes a decision or a direction, that can take a 72 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 2: lot of courage. So you don't necessarily just want to 73 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: ignore it or jump on it. You want to sort 74 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 2: of reflect on it and say, well, is there something 75 00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 2: that we should be learning from that? 76 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: But to not allow yourself to be your own self 77 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:10,160 Speaker 3: worth to. 78 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 2: Be a function of what other people are saying, unless 79 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: they are that small number of people that you know 80 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: whose opinion you really really consider is important. 81 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: And how did you get to that point of being 82 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:28,480 Speaker 1: able to actually not let all negative feedback get to 83 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: you and take that personally like where there some sort 84 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:35,919 Speaker 1: of some key moments along the way where that happen, 85 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 1: or strategies that you use because I think that's really sensible, 86 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: you know, really picking and choosing who you do actually 87 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: listen to so to speak with negative feedback. But it 88 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: can be really hard to distance yourself from negative feedback, 89 00:05:49,839 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 1: even when you know that it's not, you know, worth 90 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:55,280 Speaker 1: listening to so to speak. 91 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 3: I think there are a few formative things. I remember 92 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 3: when I was at a and said we in the LSI, 93 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: and that was. 94 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 2: One of the first sort of kind of leadership feedback. 95 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 3: Style feedback exercises i'd been through. 96 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: So I sat down with the facilitator and she showed 97 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 2: me that my team had rated me quite strongly on 98 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:24,880 Speaker 2: the various leadership attributes, but I rated myself much less strongly, 99 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 2: And I was secretly thinking that's a good thing, because 100 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 2: it shows that I'm modest. I'm not somebody who bignotes 101 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: themselves and ticks the extremely very strongly agree boxes. 102 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 3: I don't have a big ego, was how I saw it. 103 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:45,720 Speaker 2: She really explained to me, though, that actually that was 104 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: a negative thing, that I had. 105 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,840 Speaker 3: This sort of minimalist view of myself, because it meant 106 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: that I wouldn't be I wouldn't be sort of strong enough, 107 00:06:57,080 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 3: assertive enough, demanding enough in context for example, where I 108 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: needed to set my team up for success. And make 109 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 3: sure we had the resources we needed or we didn't 110 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: get sort of pushed into targets that were impossible that 111 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 3: I needed to be able to be as stronger and 112 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 3: assertive as a leader. And that really made me reflect on, yes, 113 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 3: that sort of perception that I had of myself. And 114 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,880 Speaker 3: then I'd say, another piece of leadership development work that 115 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 3: I did back in the early days, again with John 116 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: McFarlane at A and Z, was really about this idea 117 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,520 Speaker 3: of everything that happens to you to embrace accountability for 118 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 3: yourself and instead of blaming others or blaming externalities or 119 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 3: the weather or COVID nineteen or whatever you want to blame, 120 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 3: or you know, somebody who made a stupid decision before 121 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 3: you joined, to take responsibility. To have a mindset of 122 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:59,160 Speaker 3: taking responsibility for everything. 123 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: That happens to you, even the things that are negative things, 124 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 2: and to ask why was that thing sent to me, 125 00:08:07,280 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 2: Why did that happen, what was it sent to teach me? 126 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: And to really try to take that mindset of I'm 127 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 2: in control. I may not be in control of everything 128 00:08:15,840 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: that happens to me, but I can control my reactions. 129 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 3: I can choose how to respond. 130 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: I have choices in this situation and there's something to 131 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,960 Speaker 2: learn from it. And so that has been a really 132 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,800 Speaker 2: important mindset for me in making sure I never allow. 133 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 3: Myself or try not to allow myself to feel. 134 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 2: Like a victim, because I think then you're disempowered when 135 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,920 Speaker 2: you feel that way. And I think the final thing 136 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,559 Speaker 2: which I have found really helpful to think about is 137 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 2: to think about the five people that you are surrounding 138 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 2: yourself with, the five people who have the most that 139 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 2: you spend the most time with, and really ask yourself, 140 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 2: are those people that I will learn from and who 141 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: can and help me grow and be a bit of person. 142 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you want to 143 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,800 Speaker 1: listen to the full episode, I link to that in 144 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: the show notes, so you might want to check that out. 145 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: And if you are enjoying how I work, I would 146 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 1: be so deeply grateful if you just take five seconds 147 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,319 Speaker 1: out of your date to leave a review in Apple Podcasts. 148 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:25,680 Speaker 1: It might be a star rating or a few words, 149 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: and by doing so, it helps other people find the 150 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: show and it also brings a huge smile to my face. 151 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: So thank you to the hundreds of people that have 152 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: left reviews. It is so deeply appreciated. So that is 153 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 1: it for today's show and I will see you next time.