1 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Inba. I'm an 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 5 00:00:16,840 --> 00:00:20,680 Speaker 1: finding ways to optimize my work day. This episode is 6 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: another my favorite Tip episode. The title's probably pretty self explanatory. 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: It's about my favorite tip from each of the interviews 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,880 Speaker 1: I conduct. I use this format because I sometimes feel 9 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: myself as a podcast listener that I just want to 10 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: get in, get the most amount of value from an episode, 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: and then get out, So in this format, I try 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,839 Speaker 1: to do just that. My guest today is Scott D. Anthony. 13 00:00:46,120 --> 00:00:49,360 Speaker 1: Scott is a global authority on innovation and the former 14 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: managing partner of Ino Sight, the innovation and strategy consulting 15 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: firm co founded by Clayton Christensen. Scott has written several 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: best selling books and writes regularly for Harvard Business Review, 17 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: and last year, Scott was awarded the Thinker's fifty Innovation Award, 18 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: which recognizes the world leading thinkers on innovation. I've known 19 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: Scott for a little while now because our innovation consultancies 20 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,840 Speaker 1: you know, Site and Inventium formed a strategic partnership last year. 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: And in this excerpt of my chat with Scott, I 22 00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: ask him about one of my favorite concepts that he 23 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: talks about the idea of zombie projects. So on that 24 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: note over to Scott. 25 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: What a zombie project is. Essentially, it's the walking undead. 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:38,119 Speaker 2: It is the shuffling, lingering project that, if you are 27 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: honest about it, will not ever have material impact. But 28 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: it's the thing that is sucking all the innovation life 29 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,200 Speaker 2: out of an organization, or it's the thing that's killing 30 00:01:48,240 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 2: your ability to do new things because you're working on 31 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 2: all these zombie efforts that are taking all of your 32 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: time and all of your energy. And I found that 33 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 2: that idea really resonates inside large organizations because they have 34 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 2: a lot of these things. Because there is such a 35 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 2: stigma about raising your hand and saying the idea that 36 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: we're working on is stupid, the idea that we're working 37 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: on is never going to work. We really should stop this. 38 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 2: There's such a stigma around it that the zombies shuffle 39 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 2: and linger on and the organization says, we wish we 40 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 2: could innovate, but we have no time space or capacity, 41 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 2: when of course they do if they could put the 42 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: zombies out of their misery, but that's easier said than done. 43 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: I'm interested in your own working life. What are some 44 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: zombies that you've identified for yourself and successfully killed. 45 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:41,359 Speaker 3: That's a great question. 46 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 2: Well, you know, when I went through the transition earlier 47 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 2: this year from going from the managing partner role to 48 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: really transitioning that role to one of my US colleagues, 49 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 2: Patrick Biggery, and really focusing in on activities here in Singapore, 50 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: it was a great moment for me because it allowed 51 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 2: me to step back on my calendar and say, which 52 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: of the regular standing meetings that I had with colleagues 53 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,800 Speaker 2: who I love dearly, by the way, which are ones 54 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: that are really things that are great investments of my 55 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: time for both me and the other person, And which 56 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 2: are ones that had just become routines that we did 57 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 2: because the calendar told us that we should meet every 58 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,079 Speaker 2: X number of weeks. So it was a cleansing moment 59 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 2: that allowed me to say, there are a couple of 60 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: these things that I think makes sense on both sides 61 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 2: for us to keep. 62 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 3: And there's a whole range of things that had. 63 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 2: Gotten into the level of rituals that if you asked 64 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: either side, does it actually make sense for us to 65 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: be talking with this degree of frequency, they would actually 66 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,760 Speaker 2: say no, both sides would So that was something that 67 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 2: I found again this great cleansing moment, because I could 68 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: actually remove fifty to seventy percent of my standing meetings 69 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: and nobody really noticed. They appreciated having more time, but 70 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: they didn't notice that the meetings weren't happening. So I 71 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 2: had the ability of a transition and role to do this. 72 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 2: But it taught me that we all should do this. 73 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: We all should step back and say, what are the 74 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 2: rituals that I'm doing, the routine meetings that I have 75 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 2: that actually don't really have a purpose anymore, and how 76 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 2: do I get rid of them? 77 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: Can you give me an example or two of those 78 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: meetings that you've now gotten rid of and no one 79 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:22,560 Speaker 1: has even just or gared. 80 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 2: One of the ones that I would point to is, 81 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 2: you know, we had a standing operations update that I 82 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: would have with my colleague Gen Rumsey from the United States, and. 83 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,599 Speaker 3: I love Gene dearly. You know, Gene and I go 84 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:36,200 Speaker 3: way back. 85 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 2: We've worked together for fourteen years and we had a 86 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 2: standing update call and we would have a call and 87 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,360 Speaker 2: dutifully try to find agenda items to go through. But 88 00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 2: you know, it turned out that Gene and I could 89 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 2: handle those agenda items really well via email. So we 90 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 2: just kind of stopped having the calls and we started 91 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: doing email updates. And Gene is just a ferocious task 92 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 2: manager and she gets her job done exceedingly well without 93 00:05:01,760 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 2: requiring those calls, and there you go, it just gets done. 94 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: So that is one example where we learned from doing 95 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,520 Speaker 2: this that email allowed both of us to save time 96 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: and didn't impair either one of our the effectiveness of 97 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 2: either one of us. And you know, again, I bet 98 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 2: you if anyone looks at their calendar with some degree 99 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 2: of I guess objective skepticism, you will see the equivalent 100 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: of the Gene Ramsey update call. 101 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,440 Speaker 3: Where once you got a call, you got to. 102 00:05:31,360 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 2: Prepare for it, you got to set an agenda for it, 103 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 2: someone's got to send a follow up note and so on. 104 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: And if you just say, what would happen if we 105 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: didn't do this, it ends up that the world just 106 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: keeps on turning, and the world has kept on turning. 107 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 2: And again, Gene knows that I am a long term 108 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: friend and big supporter, so she knows exactly what I'm 109 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:53,240 Speaker 2: saying when I go through this example. 110 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: Hello there, me again. I hope that after hearing Scott talk, 111 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: you are inspired to find some of your own zombies. 112 00:06:01,440 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: At invent Him about every two years we run a 113 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,640 Speaker 1: zombie campaign where we ask all staff to submit zombies, 114 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: and we've also taken things a step further and we 115 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 1: also ask for vampires too. So these are things that 116 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 1: are sucking the life out of us that they could 117 00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: still add value if they were changed or tweaked in 118 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 1: some way. So, for example, right now as I'm recording this, 119 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 1: we're running a zombie campaign and one of the zombies 120 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: that has been nominated. To give you an example, is 121 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 1: a feature that we have in our online innovation training program, 122 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: which is a weekly office hours chat. So for one 123 00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 1: hour a week, one of our consultants, called Inventiologists will 124 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: have time blocked out in their diary and we'll be 125 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: hanging out in an online chat room for anyone doing 126 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: the program to come online and ask questions or get 127 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: some help. But here's the thing, well, all our clients 128 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: love the sound of it, barely anyone uses it. So 129 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,719 Speaker 1: our zombie committee is now questioning whether we kill off 130 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: this feature and win back an hour of time every week. 131 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 1: So I'd love to know from you if you decide 132 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: to go on a zombie hunt or perhaps even run 133 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: your own zombie campaign and your team or organization. I 134 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: know that we've had clients do this and they literally 135 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: saved hundreds of hours and many many dollars through doing this. 136 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: So that's it for today. If you like this excerpt, 137 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: you might want to listen to my full chat with Scott, 138 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: which I linked to in the show notes. And if 139 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: you're enjoying how I work, why not leave a review 140 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: in Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. 141 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: I just love getting feedback from listeners, so leave a review, 142 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: or you might even want to send me a note. 143 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: I always have my email address in the show notes 144 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:43,320 Speaker 1: as well. So that is it for today and I'll 145 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:44,520 Speaker 1: see you next time.