1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: From the Daily Os. I'm Billy fit Simon's and this 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: is no silly questions. It is Tuesday. I hope you 3 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: have had a lovely long weekend, and today I'm joined 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,879 Speaker 1: by Tom Crowley, twenty forty five treasurer. I am pre 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:16,560 Speaker 1: emptying your career change into politics. 6 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 2: This is getting ridiculous, phally. I feel like I'm just 7 00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 2: being routinely mocked now every time I come on this show. 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 2: That's the most absurd title you've got so far. I 9 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:26,600 Speaker 2: assume you picked it because we're talking about the economy today. 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: We are talking about the economy today, and you are 11 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: a political journalists, so you know I can see a 12 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: career change into politics for you in the future. Absolutely not, okay, 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: we will work on that. But we are talking about 14 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: the economy today, Tom, what do you want to get 15 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: out of this episode? 16 00:00:41,880 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so the economy. It's the subject that I'm passionate about. 17 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 2: I used to be an economist, but I know it's 18 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 2: a word that makes people's eyes glaze over a little bit, 19 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: and I think it's sometimes a discussion that's so abstract. 20 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: You know. We talk about the economy, and we talk 21 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,360 Speaker 2: about all these kind of big technical words like inflation 22 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: and interest rates, and people sort of may they half 23 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: know what they mean, but it's hard to sort of 24 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 2: connect that to our ordinary lives and to get a 25 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 2: clear sense of why do we talk so much about 26 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 2: the economy and why do we talk about the economy 27 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: in politics in particular. And so if I can answer 28 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 2: those two questions by the end of today, Billy, in 29 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,959 Speaker 2: the next ten minutes, we will have done well. 30 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,480 Speaker 1: Well, let's start with a sixty second summary. Your time 31 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: starts now. 32 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: All right, So the economy is all about us. It's 33 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 2: society's system for deciding what we have. There's more life 34 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 2: than having stuff, of course, so there's more to life 35 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 2: than the economy. But having stuff is important. We need 36 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 2: it to live, and the economy is the way that 37 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: we make that happen. The economy decides what we'll do 38 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: with our resources and our people. What are we going 39 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 2: to produce, and what stuff will we have as a result, 40 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 2: and how does that stuff get shared among us. That's 41 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: the most basic, kind of stripped back version of the 42 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 2: question that societies have to answer with their economies. There 43 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 2: are many different ways of answering the question. Our way 44 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,680 Speaker 2: is what we call a mixed economy, and in a 45 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: mixed economy, some things, a lot of things are left 46 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,320 Speaker 2: for us to decide ourselves. It's up to us to 47 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 2: work or to employ others to work, to sell things, 48 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 2: to buy things. It happens in what we call markets, 49 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: and in a lot of our life we let markets, 50 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: let individuals make their own decisions about what stuff we 51 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 2: will have and how it will be distributed. And then 52 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 2: some things the government does and allocates, like health care 53 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: or education. We've sort of talked about that a bit Before. 54 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 2: All of that is the economy, all those relationships, all 55 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 2: the things that we produce, and at the root of 56 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: it is us and the question of what kind of 57 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 2: standard of living will we have. And when we ask 58 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,480 Speaker 2: how is the economy going? Is it good or bad? 59 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 2: Is it strong a weak? What we mean is is 60 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,520 Speaker 2: the economy doing its job of providing a good standard 61 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: of living for us? There's lots of ways you can 62 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,079 Speaker 2: measure that. You can just count up how much stuff 63 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:45,720 Speaker 2: we have? Do we have lots of it? Are we 64 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: accumulating more? When we talk about economic growth, that's kind 65 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:50,600 Speaker 2: of what we mean, But that's not all we care about. 66 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 2: We care about distribution. Does everybody have enough is the 67 00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 2: system working for everybody? Can they all find a job 68 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:58,399 Speaker 2: if they want one, and make enough from that job 69 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: to buy the things they need to survive or to 70 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 2: live comfortably. So that's kind of a very sort of 71 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: well wind tour, as always, Billy, and I'm keen to 72 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 2: get into more detail. But that's kind of a big 73 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:09,839 Speaker 2: question that we're asking, and I think that that gives 74 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,000 Speaker 2: you a bit of a sense of why it matters. 75 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: I love the passion there. So we are all about 76 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 1: politics here at no silly questions. And so let's zoom 77 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 1: in on the government and the government's relation to the economy, 78 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: which you mentioned in your answer. I want to ask 79 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: about how governments manage the economy. We're in an election campaign, 80 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 1: of course, and you often hear it debates about which 81 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: party is better at managing the economy, but what does 82 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 1: that actually mean. 83 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,760 Speaker 2: So there's two parts I guess to the government's job 84 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: in managing the economy. And the first part is one 85 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: that we've talked about a lot before, which I mentioned 86 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: in my answer, which is the government runs parts of 87 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 2: the economy itself. So in a communist system, for example, 88 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 2: the government runs everything, it runs the whole economy plans 89 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 2: it all out here. It's a lot more limited than that, 90 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: but the government still runs a lot like schools and 91 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: how hospitals. They're the two that I always mention. We 92 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 2: don't think of those things necessarily as being kind of 93 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 2: the economy, but they are. They're part of society system 94 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 2: for deciding who gets what. And if the government didn't 95 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: run those things, we'd have to buy and sell them ourselves. 96 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: So running those things, and that's what we call the 97 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 2: public sector or section of the economy, is a very 98 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: important job, and that's part of managing the economy. But 99 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 2: the government also has a role in managing how the 100 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: rest of the economy, which is what we call the 101 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: private sector, all the stuff that's left to individuals, how 102 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 2: that functions. And I guess the way to think about it. 103 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,120 Speaker 2: You know, when things go badly, when people lose their jobs, 104 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,159 Speaker 2: the cost of living rises, something like that, people blame 105 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 2: the government for that and they want the government to 106 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 2: do something. Now, the government doesn't run the private sector, 107 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 2: It doesn't employ people in their ordinary jobs, and it 108 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 2: doesn't decide the price of everything. So why do we 109 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 2: blame the government for that kind of thing? It's because 110 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: we expect the government to do things to manage the 111 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: overall health of the economy, not just the public sector, 112 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 2: but the private sector as well. 113 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:02,800 Speaker 1: And can you explain more how it actually does that, Like, 114 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 1: how can the government manage the economy? Can you give 115 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 1: me an example? 116 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: Sure, So the main way that the government does it 117 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 2: really is by changing in some way it's spending or 118 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:17,200 Speaker 2: it's taxing. That's a very vague answer, but I will 119 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: give an example. But it's kind of so two questions 120 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,600 Speaker 2: that we're thinking about here. When the government takes money 121 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 2: out of our pockets, that's taking money out of the 122 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 2: private sector. So what's the cost of that money, you know, 123 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: not being with us anymore. And then what's the benefit 124 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: of what they're going to spend on in the public sector. 125 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 2: They're kind of the two things to keep in mind 126 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,200 Speaker 2: as I give an example. So imagine this is just 127 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 2: sort of a ridiculous, made up example. Imagine you've got 128 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 2: two towns in Australia and they're completely cut off from 129 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: each other, and then the government builds a road between 130 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 2: them and now they can visit each other, they can 131 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,040 Speaker 2: do business with each other. That might open up new 132 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:55,039 Speaker 2: business opportunities, it might lead to hiring some new people 133 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:57,799 Speaker 2: in new jobs. So the government hasn't kind of actually 134 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: formally hired people in jobs or started up the businesses itself. 135 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 2: It hasn't really meddled in the private sector. It's just 136 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 2: built a road. But building the road has created some jobs, 137 00:06:08,520 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: created some new economic activity. So you know, great job government, 138 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 2: you've grown the economy, you've put people in work. Good 139 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: economic management. But there's a catch, of course, as I 140 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 2: sort of mentioned at the start, that the money for 141 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: the road has come from somewhere. It's been taken out 142 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 2: of people's pockets in tax to build that road. If 143 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 2: you benefit from the road, it's great for you. But 144 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: the people who've lost the money, they can't spend whatever 145 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 2: else they were going to spend that money on. So 146 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: there's a cost there. The people who are taxed might 147 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: have created some jobs over in a different part of 148 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:37,800 Speaker 2: the economy, and so it's this kind of thing of 149 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:41,320 Speaker 2: costs and benefits, and there's this balance for the government. 150 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: And a big part of the government's job in managing 151 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 2: the economy is making sensible decisions about how much to 152 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 2: tax and how much to spend. Now, there is absolutely 153 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 2: no one answer to how much that should be and 154 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,359 Speaker 2: to where the right balance is. That is, in fact, 155 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 2: probably one of the biggest debates in politics. The challenge 156 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:00,680 Speaker 2: is going to be figuring out the thing that we 157 00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 2: want to spend the money on worth the cost of 158 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 2: taking the money off people. And when the answer is yes, 159 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 2: you can contribute not just kind of to the public sector, 160 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:10,560 Speaker 2: but you can actually kind of make things better in 161 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 2: the private sector as well. And so the type of 162 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 2: spending and the type of tax that the government does 163 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: has a big impact on the overall economy, and that's 164 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: the main way the government manages the economy. 165 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: And so obviously managing the economy is a controversial topic 166 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 1: and it's been a big election issue so far, and 167 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: different political parties left and right have different views. But 168 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: are there any general rules and how can you be 169 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 1: quote unquote good at managing the economy? 170 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: It's a very loaded question. I'm going to do my 171 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 2: best to explain kind of some of the general rules 172 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 2: that people agree on without kind of getting into these 173 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,360 Speaker 2: sorts of thorny political debates, because it is, as you say, 174 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: it's something that people have different political persuasions disagree on. 175 00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: I think there are some uncontroversial rules of thumb one. 176 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,320 Speaker 2: You've got to try and calculate the costs and the 177 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: benefits of your decision. So I talked there before about 178 00:08:06,040 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 2: the road and what are the costs and the benefits 179 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 2: of building that road. Quite often the job of an 180 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,200 Speaker 2: economist is to get really specific about that, to actually 181 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 2: kind of not just count up the dollars and cents 182 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: of it, but think through all of the different costs 183 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: and benefits. In the broadest sense, understand all of the 184 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 2: good and bad consequences of your actions. And so the 185 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: more carefully you can think about the policies and the 186 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,000 Speaker 2: things that you want to spend on and the taxes 187 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: that you want to raise, you know, the better chance 188 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,280 Speaker 2: you've got of kind of understanding whether each individual decision 189 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: is worth doing. So, the more careful governments and their 190 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,959 Speaker 2: advisors are, you know, the better off they are. That's 191 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 2: kind of rule number one. Rull number two. This is 192 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: something that generally parties agree on, which is that when 193 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:48,959 Speaker 2: the economy is struggling, that's when you generally want to 194 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 2: give people more money, both through what you spend and 195 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 2: through maybe the tax relief that you give people. So 196 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: when there's a recession, like a big negative economic shock 197 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,280 Speaker 2: like we've had with COVID, people losing their job, that 198 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 2: sort of thing. That's a time when the government the 199 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 2: word that we use is stimulate the economy, and the 200 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 2: decisions that government's making are more about kind of you know, 201 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: giving people support to help them kind of get out 202 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 2: of that that weak phase. So that's kind of another 203 00:09:12,559 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 2: general rule of thumb. And then when the economy is 204 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: sort of doing really well and everything's fine, there's less 205 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,880 Speaker 2: urgency about that. So that's kind of the broad way 206 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 2: that the politicians tend to think about the economy, and 207 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 2: COVID over the last couple of years has been a 208 00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:27,520 Speaker 2: really good example of that. When state and federal governments, 209 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 2: labor and liberal both have had a really similar approach 210 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 2: to how you manage that crisis. So they are kind 211 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 2: of two general rules of thumb. Almost everything else that 212 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 2: I could say, though, Billy, is something that the parties 213 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 2: disagree on and ideas about, you know, when you should 214 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: spend and when you should tax and that kind of thing. 215 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 2: It's open for debate, and there are no clear right 216 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: or wrong answers, or no black and white answers at least. 217 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 1: Okay, in final question, and this might sound like a 218 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: silly question, but in the spirit of there being no 219 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: silly questions, why should we care about this at all? 220 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: And why does the economy and how it's managed actually matter? 221 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 2: I think there are probably people listening to this thinking, Wow, 222 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,719 Speaker 2: there's more to life than money, there's more to life 223 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 2: than material stuff. You know, where has that got us? 224 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:06,199 Speaker 2: And that there are broader things that we should be 225 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 2: worried about. To those people, I say, you're absolutely right. 226 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 2: But even though the economy is not everything, it's a lot, 227 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 2: and the reality is to lead the lives that we 228 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 2: want to live, we rely on a lot of economic activity. 229 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 2: We rely on a strong economy where we can get 230 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: good jobs and good paying jobs, and where we can 231 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: buy everything that we need with the money that we make. 232 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 2: And so economic growth is really important for that. And 233 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 2: you look back over the last one hundred hundred and 234 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 2: fifty years, you think of a period drama set in 235 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: the eighteen hundreds and how different life looked. It's economic 236 00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: growth that means that our world looks the way that 237 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 2: it does today, and there are a lot of problems 238 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: with that world, and we're grappling at the moment with 239 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:45,679 Speaker 2: the fact that our economic activity over the last one 240 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty years has damaged the planet and it 241 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: might do irreversible damage. That's part of the economic conversation 242 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 2: as well, the impact of our activity on the natural 243 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,880 Speaker 2: environment and the people who live in it. That can 244 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 2: and should be part of the conversation of economics. They're 245 00:10:59,679 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 2: not set pretty issues. These are all questions that come 246 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 2: back to our idea of what is our standard of living, 247 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: how is that shared across our country, across the world, 248 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 2: and does everybody have what they need to live kind 249 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,160 Speaker 2: of fulfilling lives, sustainable lives, whatever our measure is for 250 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 2: a good life, And that I think is why these 251 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 2: questions of how we manage the economy and the impact 252 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 2: of our economic activity is such important ones. 253 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: Well, I'm impressed that you've managed to get through this 254 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: whole thing without almost any technical words. That's a big 255 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 1: win and no silly questions. 256 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm glad I managed to get through with that 257 00:11:35,559 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: too many of those. I think it's there. Probably is 258 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 2: a whole episode. I don't know whether we'll ever get 259 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: to it, but there's a whole episode we could devote 260 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 2: to talking about the economic jug and that you always 261 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:44,959 Speaker 2: hear and what all of those words mean. But yeah, 262 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: I think I think conversations about the economy are sometimes 263 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:49,960 Speaker 2: the most interesting when you strip it back to the 264 00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 2: bear roots and connect it back to us in our 265 00:11:52,160 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 2: lives and have a little bit more of an earthy 266 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: conversation if you like. That doesn't have any dug and 267 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: so hopefully you've been able to follow along. I certainly 268 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:00,880 Speaker 2: enjoyed talking about. 269 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: It, spoken like a true future treasurer Tom, Thank you 270 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:05,400 Speaker 1: so much. 271 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: While I was enjoying it until then do we have 272 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 2: to do that? 273 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:09,920 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening to this episode of 274 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: No Silly Questions. If you've enjoyed this episode, please give 275 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 1: us a five star rating on Spotify or a review 276 00:12:16,080 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: on Apple. The Daily Odds is a small independent media 277 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 1: company and it really helps us grow. We will see 278 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: you on Thursday.