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Speaker 1: Good morning everybody, and welcome to the Daily OS. It

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Speaker 1: is Wednesday, the twenty second of June. I hope everybody

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Speaker 1: is okay. After a winter solstice yesterday, it really gets

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Speaker 1: me to think about how I use my daylight hours

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Speaker 1: and it's good to be on the other side and

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Speaker 1: on the road to summer. Officially, you've never.

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Speaker 2: Heard somebody speak about a short bit.

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Speaker 1: It's right to say this. The sunset of four fifty

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Speaker 1: eight pm. That's incredible. On today's podcast, we're going to

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Speaker 1: be talking about trans women and sport and have a meaningful,

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Speaker 1: respectful discussion about that. The first Sarah, what is making

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Speaker 1: news headlines this morning?

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Speaker 2: Well, we heard from Reserve Bank Governor Philip Lowe yesterday.

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Speaker 2: He actually played down fears of a looming recession, saying

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Speaker 2: that Australia's household, businesses and fundamentals are still strong, which

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Speaker 2: quote doesn't feel like a precursor to a recession. While

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Speaker 2: speaking in Sydney, Lowe also said that he thinks inflation

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Speaker 2: will reach seven percent this year. The rate of inflation

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Speaker 2: is currently at five point one percent.

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Speaker 1: It was the state of origin battle of the budget yesterday.

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Speaker 1: Both New South Wales and Queensland released their budgets for

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Speaker 1: the twenty two to twenty three financial years. First home

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Speaker 1: buyers in New South Wales will now be able to

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Speaker 1: swap paying stamp duty for a four hundred dollars annual

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Speaker 1: levee and land tax, while the Queensland government committed twenty

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Speaker 1: three point six billion dollars for healthcare, which Premier Anastasia

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Speaker 1: Palichet said would help us meet the growing demands of

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Speaker 1: the system.

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Speaker 2: Floods in northeastern India have killed at least forty five

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Speaker 2: people and displaced more than four point seven million, with

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Speaker 2: unprecedented rainfall and flooding engulfing villages in the Ussam region

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Speaker 2: while also destroying crops and homes. Over one thy four

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Speaker 2: hundred relief camps have been set up for those displaced

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Speaker 2: by the floods, with authorities estimating that thirty two of

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Speaker 2: Usum's thirty five districts have been impacted.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news, a Russian journalist has auctioned off

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Speaker 1: his Nobel Peace Prize medal four one hundred and three

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Speaker 1: point five million US dollars this week, with all the

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Speaker 1: money from the sale going towards helping refugees from the

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Speaker 1: war in Ukraine. Dmitriy Mouri, the editor in chief of

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Speaker 1: independent newspaper Novaah Gazetta, was co awarded the prize in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty one for defending a freedom of expression in Russia.

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Speaker 2: On today's podcast, we are going to be talking about

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Speaker 2: the trans community and about elite athletes. Now, neither Sam

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Speaker 2: nor I are part of either of these communities, and

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Speaker 2: we want to just say at the outset of this

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Speaker 2: that it is a deeply personal and at times deeply

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Speaker 2: debilitating conversation to be having, especially when it has been

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Speaker 2: politicized time and time again. So we just encourage all

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Speaker 2: our listeners to have respectful conversations if discussing this issue,

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Speaker 2: and that on both sides of what we'll call a

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Speaker 2: debate for this sake, there are real people whose lives

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Speaker 2: are being impacted every day. So let's keep that in

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Speaker 2: mind as we talk about what has happened this week

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Speaker 2: in terms of trans women and elite sport.

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Speaker 1: So with that context, let's start by discussing what has

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Speaker 1: actually made the headlines this week in the realm of

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Speaker 1: trans sport participation and what that might mean for trans

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Speaker 1: women wanting to compete in elite sports.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so The first bit of news came on Monday morning,

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Speaker 2: following quite an extraordinary meeting of FENA. FEENA is the

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Speaker 2: global governing body for elite swimming competitions. At its congress meeting,

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Speaker 2: which coincided with the Swimming World Championships in Hungary, about

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Speaker 2: seventy one percent of member federations voted in favor of

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Speaker 2: inserting a new policy that would restrict the participation of

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Speaker 2: transgender women in elite women's sport. The new policy would

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Speaker 2: require transgender women wanting to compete at FENA organized women's

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Speaker 2: events to prove that they haven't experienced male puberty beyond

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Speaker 2: the physical development stages or before they turned twelve, whichever

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Speaker 2: is last. As I said, the policy was largely supported

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Speaker 2: by the FENA Congress, with only fifteen percent of members

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Speaker 2: voting against the new rule and just over thirteen percent

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Speaker 2: abstaining from the vote.

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Speaker 1: And does that mean that any trans women who don't

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Speaker 1: satisfy these requirements would essentially be out of elite swimming.

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Speaker 2: As it stands, Yes, but FENA has said that shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be the case moving forward. So during the congress meeting,

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Speaker 2: FEENA President Hussein al m Sulam announced that a working

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Speaker 2: group would be established to create an open category for

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Speaker 2: transgender athletes at some of its biggest events. This would

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Speaker 2: give some of the transgender athletes who have been excluded

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Speaker 2: from women's events under this new policy the chance to

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Speaker 2: still compete at an elite level. There's no further word

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Speaker 2: on what this open category might look like, but the

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Speaker 2: working group has apparently been asked to report back with

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Speaker 2: its initial findings in the next six months, so hopefully

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Speaker 2: by then we'll have a bit of a clearer picture

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Speaker 2: of what these open categories might look like.

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Speaker 1: And take me inside the room at this conference in Hungary.

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Speaker 1: Who were the notable speakers that spoke on both sides

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Speaker 1: of the debate.

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Speaker 2: There are a couple we heard from American Olympic champions

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Speaker 2: Summer Sanders and fena's executive director Brentnawiki, But perhaps the

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Speaker 2: most notably to us and our audience here was Australian

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Speaker 2: swimmer Kate Campbell, who has been to four Olympic Games

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Speaker 2: and has won as many gold medals. Campbell said that

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Speaker 2: without fair competition, sport in its elite form would cease

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Speaker 2: to exist.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so now that we've covered the FENA angle of this,

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Speaker 1: can you tell me about some of the backlash that

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Speaker 1: FEENA has received for the policy.

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Speaker 2: So, despite the relative ease as such which the new

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Speaker 2: policy passed through Veenas Congress, multiple groups and organization have

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Speaker 2: voiced their opposition to the decision. The nonprofit US based

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Speaker 2: LGBTQI athletic advocacy group called athlete Ally released a statement

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Speaker 2: in response to the new policy, which they labeled as

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Speaker 2: deeply discriminatory, harmful and unscientific. Anne Lieberman, who's the director

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Speaker 2: of Policy in Programs at that place, has said that

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Speaker 2: the FENA rule would police the bodies of all women

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Speaker 2: and will not be enforceable without seriously violating the privacy

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Speaker 2: and human rights of any athlete looking to compete in

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Speaker 2: the women's category. In looking a bit closer to home,

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Speaker 2: we spoke to Equality As Australia and asked for a

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Speaker 2: comment from them. They called the decision by FENA a

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Speaker 2: dangerous precedent that would quote have impacts on the human

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Speaker 2: rights of all athletes and could also pose serious harm

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Speaker 2: to both the intersex community and trans women.

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Speaker 1: That's an interesting point you just mentioned about how this

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Speaker 1: move by FENA might set a precedent for other sporting

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Speaker 1: bodies to follow. Do we know how other organizations, both

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Speaker 1: in Australia and around the world have reacted to this news.

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Speaker 2: There's been a lot of movement just in the past

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Speaker 2: twenty four hours on this and it's showing that the

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Speaker 2: new policy has certainly had an impact on other sporting

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Speaker 2: organizations across the world. While bodies like World Athletics and FIFA,

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Speaker 2: the international soccer body, have both said that they're undergoing

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Speaker 2: a review of their transgender eligibility policies, the biggest piece

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Speaker 2: of news in the wake of fena's decision has been

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Speaker 2: from rugby league's international governing body. So we were sitting

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Speaker 2: yesterday talking about the FENA decision as we got word

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Speaker 2: from the International Rugby League body that they had basically

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Speaker 2: followed suit. So the IRL has banned transgien to athletes

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Speaker 2: from international women's events until quote, further research is completed,

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Speaker 2: and at that point they say they'll implement a formal

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Speaker 2: transgender policy. As the FENA policy was passed only about

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Speaker 2: forty eight hours ago, there's still a pretty good chance

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Speaker 2: that new rules from other global sporting bodies will continue

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Speaker 2: to come in pending internal reviews of their participation and

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Speaker 2: eligibility requirements, but that International Rugby League decision did come

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Speaker 2: ahead of the World Cup. Now a little earlier I

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Speaker 2: mentioned Weld Athletics. Their president Sebastian Coe has already come

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Speaker 2: out in support of fena's decision and has said that

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Speaker 2: it was in the best interests of the sport, and

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Speaker 2: he added that if we ever get pushed into a

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Speaker 2: corner where we're making a judgment about fairness or inclusion,

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Speaker 2: I will always fall down on the side of fairness.

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Speaker 2: On the flip side of that, Australia's first elite transgender runner,

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Speaker 2: Ricky Coughlin, has labeled feena's approach as simplistic and said

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Speaker 2: that there's great diversity among transgender women and this fails

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Speaker 2: to take that into account. Speaking to the ABC, Kaughlin said,

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Speaker 2: I think a sport ought to be able to have

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Speaker 2: an understanding of the physical parameters that women bring to

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Speaker 2: their sport or sporting code and apply those tests to

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Speaker 2: any transgender woman who might put their hand up to

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Speaker 2: participate in elite sport.

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Speaker 1: It does seem that athletes themselves are divided over the

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Speaker 1: decisions of both the IRL and FEENA. Some are saying

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Speaker 1: it's a victory for fairness Others are saying it's simplistic.

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Speaker 1: What's important in both contexts is to have that respectful

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Speaker 1: discussion and that's what we're hoping to see from our

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Speaker 1: sporting codes and our sports leaders. That's all we've got

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Speaker 1: time for on today's edition of The Daily OS. Have

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Speaker 1: a fantastic hump Day and we'll speak to you tomorrow