1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: Now, if you're listening to the show a little bit 2 00:00:02,040 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: earlier today, you would have heard Angus Taylor, the Federal 3 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: minister who had joined us to let us know about 4 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: this announcement that had been made a bit earlier this morning. 5 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 2: I believe that. 6 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: They'd made that announcement in Gladstone. So essentially there is 7 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 1: going to be a feasibility study for the Northern Territory. 8 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: The way that it works, all the way that it's 9 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: going to impact us is here in the Northern Territory. 10 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 1: It's a feasibility study into the most efficient infrastructure to 11 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: deliver natural gas from the Beaterloo sub basin to the 12 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: East Coast gas market. There's also a feasibility study on 13 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: options for CO two pipelines between the Beaterloo and Middle 14 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: arm and Darwin region. So there is a lot happening 15 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:41,920 Speaker 1: in this space. But we also know that today there 16 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: is this public hearing which is happening into the Federal 17 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: government's decision as part of the Senate inquiry to oil 18 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 1: and gas production in the Beaterloo Basin to grant money 19 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:55,320 Speaker 1: to oil and gas companies. 20 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: Now joining me. 21 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: In the studio to talk a little bit more about 22 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: both of these both of these things. Is the APA 23 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:04,840 Speaker 1: Chief Executive Andrew McConville. Good morning to you, Andrew. 24 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 3: Good morning Katie Andrew. 25 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 1: Firstly, we do know that this announcement was made by 26 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 1: the federal minister this morning around these feasibility studies. What 27 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 1: do you think that that means for the territory. 28 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 4: What it's doing is looking at how the potential of 29 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,759 Speaker 4: gas development here in the territory is through the Bealoo Basin, 30 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,039 Speaker 4: so that onshore development, is there the capacity for some 31 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 4: of that gas to flow east. When we look forward 32 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 4: several years into the East Coast, as we see decline 33 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 4: in production and the likes of bas Strait, we're going 34 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 4: to need to continue to get gas to drive and 35 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,080 Speaker 4: drive the economy over there, to drive the manufacturing sector. 36 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 4: And so there is a real opportunity or potential opportunity 37 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 4: for the gas that could be produced here in the 38 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 4: bedalou to flow east. So that's what the government is 39 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 4: really looking at to make sure that there's that continuity 40 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 4: of supply, keep downward pressure on price, and keep manufacturing 41 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 4: coming on the East Coast. 42 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: And then it's not only I suppose about the East Coast. 43 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: Even with that pipeline as well or the feasibility into 44 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: East Arm and from what Angus Taylor had said on 45 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: the show a bit earlier, it's about also keeping it 46 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 1: in the territory too for manufacturing. Is that something from 47 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: APIs perspective you see happening? 48 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 3: Yeah, Kdi, one hundred percent. 49 00:02:10,280 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 4: You know, what we would love to see is the 50 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:14,799 Speaker 4: development of the industry here in the territory for the 51 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 4: territory and the government, both federal and state, have expressed 52 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 4: an intention to that continued development of Middle Arm and 53 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 4: so being able to move gash from the Beaterloo basin 54 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 4: when it reaches production up here to support manufacturing would 55 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 4: be a great outcome for the territory. And similarly also 56 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 4: looking at the opportunities to move carbon as well, so 57 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,240 Speaker 4: when we store carbon, you know, that could be an 58 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,839 Speaker 4: opportunity as well. So I do think that it's very 59 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 4: important that the economic opportunities that are generated here in 60 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 4: the territory are available to territorians. 61 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:48,920 Speaker 1: Absolutely, and it seems as though it's you know, in 62 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: some ways there are a lot of Territorians who see 63 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: this as being potentially a really good thing ie jobs 64 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: for territorians and that development for the Northern Territory. There 65 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: are others who still incredibly concerned about the environmental impacts. 66 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,840 Speaker 2: And I know that today there is this public hearing. 67 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: Which is happening looking into the federal government's decision as 68 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: part of that Senate inquiry to oil and gas production 69 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:16,079 Speaker 1: in the Beterloo Basin, to grant money to oil and 70 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 1: gas companies. You have just spoken as I understand that 71 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: that Senate inquiry, haven't you? 72 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 3: Yes, I have you? 73 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 1: Now why was this money or why should this money 74 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: be granted to oil and gas companies? 75 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 3: Well, look at me. 76 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 4: You know, at the end of the day, governments will 77 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 4: decide where they want to allocate their funds. That's the 78 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 4: role and purpose of government. What I believe the government 79 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 4: is trying to do is to look at how the 80 00:03:36,760 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 4: development of the be Toloo Basin, you know, which could 81 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 4: be a significant oil and gas resource, can be facilitated 82 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 4: and perhaps sped up. And look, it's not uncommon for 83 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 4: governments to do this sort of thing. I mean we 84 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:51,760 Speaker 4: see it with the Pace program in South Australia for example. 85 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 4: Now that was that was a similar sum of money 86 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 4: over twenty seventeen to nineteen, and that generated a direct 87 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 4: economic benefit of two hundred and forty three million dollars 88 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 4: five to one return, which I reckon is a pretty 89 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 4: good outcome. So it's about how can you step in 90 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 4: and facilitate and speed up development. It's very important in 91 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:13,120 Speaker 4: that early stage to help with offsetting risk and looking 92 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 4: at how we can continue that exploration where ultimately we 93 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 4: want to get to commercial production. But that's the will 94 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 4: and want of governments, and companies can decide to or 95 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 4: not to seek to access that money, but it's not 96 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,279 Speaker 4: an uncommon process for governments to engage in a normal 97 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 4: commercial practice. 98 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: Look, I know that there'll certainly be people listening this morning. 99 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: He'll be thinking if this fracking of the b Loo 100 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,839 Speaker 1: is profitable, if it's a profitable venture, why do you 101 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:42,360 Speaker 1: need this federal government funding. 102 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 4: Well, look, I think right now we're in explorations, so 103 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 4: there's a lot that has to happen before we would 104 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,320 Speaker 4: get to production and indeed profitable production. 105 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: And that's quite a way off. 106 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 4: You know, we're really at the moment trying to establish 107 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 4: the nature of the size and the scope of the resource. 108 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 4: And what the Federal album and has recognized is that 109 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 4: that's a difficult process and so they're wanting to do 110 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 4: what they can to help speed that up. But you know, 111 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 4: there's no guarantees in life, and there's certainly no guarantees 112 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 4: in oil and gas exploration. I can tell you it 113 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 4: as to whether this will ultimately be commercial and profitable, 114 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 4: So you know, it's speculation to suggest that that might 115 00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 4: be the case. What the government is trying to do, 116 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 4: I believe, is take some real action now to try 117 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 4: and help at least support and speed up that exploration process. 118 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: And Andrew, we know that there are people who are 119 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 1: still seriously concerned about the environmental impacts when it comes 120 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: to fracking in the bet Loo Basin. Have the oil 121 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: and gas companies that are working in the Bee Lou 122 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: Basin have they really well consulted with the community, particularly 123 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,480 Speaker 1: traditional owners and those that live in the area, to 124 00:05:47,600 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 1: the degree that they. 125 00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 4: Should be well, Look, there is a regulatory framework that 126 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 4: sits around all of that, Katie, to make sure that 127 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 4: that happens, and no exploration or no if we get 128 00:05:57,320 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 4: to production can occur without the consent of the traditional 129 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,160 Speaker 4: owners of that land and also of the pastor us. 130 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 4: And that's a very important point to remember. This cannot 131 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 4: happen without the consent of those groups. In addition with 132 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 4: traditional owners, there is of course the whole native title 133 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 4: legislative framework that also sits around this. And what we've 134 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,039 Speaker 4: seen with the development of unconventional gas in Australia is 135 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 4: that's been going on for wilder than I am. 136 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 3: I won't give away my age, but. 137 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 4: It's almost sixty years and it's been also done around 138 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 4: the world the more than six million unconventional wells around 139 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 4: the world. So this is a process that has been 140 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 4: very tried and very tested, and I think here in 141 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 4: the territory as territories, you can take every confidence that 142 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 4: the environmental frameworks put around this and the analysis that's 143 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 4: been done can give you confidence that's going to be 144 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 4: done safely. We've had fourteen scientific, independent scientific reviews to 145 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 4: look at the safety of undertaking this work. And at 146 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 4: some point you can continue to have a philosophical objection. 147 00:06:54,560 --> 00:06:56,599 Speaker 4: And I get that people are passionate about this stuff. 148 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 4: I get it, I really do. But at some point 149 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 4: you've got to decide whether to say yay or ny 150 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 4: And if you say yay, then you've got to come 151 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:04,719 Speaker 4: back to the facts. 152 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 3: And the facts are the facts. 153 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:08,919 Speaker 1: Now, I guess Like I said earlier, I know that 154 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: there will be some people listening who are totally against 155 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:11,840 Speaker 1: this happening. 156 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: There will be others who. 157 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: Are listening who are thinking to themselves. I thought that 158 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 1: there was gas already flowing out of Beaterloo. 159 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 2: Where are things at right now? 160 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 3: Well, look, it is very early stages, Kadie. 161 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 4: There's been you know, there was a significant pause and 162 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 4: moratorium while the Pepper Review was conducted and production so 163 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,160 Speaker 4: not exploration, but production of oil and gas can't be 164 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 4: undertaken until all one hundred and thirty five recommendations have 165 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 4: been implemented. And whilst progress is being made, it's difficult 166 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 4: and it's slow, and you know we're not even halfway 167 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 4: through that, so we're still some way away, and it's 168 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 4: you know, it's a difficult place to develop gas and 169 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 4: we think that the resource there is significant, but it 170 00:07:50,040 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 4: takes time and it takes money, and so you know, 171 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 4: we're still some years away from looking at commercial production. 172 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,000 Speaker 4: Now that's different to what we've got offshore with Impects 173 00:07:59,040 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 4: and Santos and others, and yet lots of gas going there. 174 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 4: But on shore in the b Tloo, we're still a 175 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 4: while away, very much in the exploration phase right now. 176 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,160 Speaker 1: I mean taking that into account and how far away 177 00:08:09,200 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: we still are, is it still. 178 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 2: Going to be viable? 179 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:13,280 Speaker 4: Well, certainly, we hope so. And I think that's what 180 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 4: the federal government sees in terms of what it's trying 181 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 4: to do with looking at the feasibility of infrastructure and 182 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 4: supporting the development of infrastructure for the industry and our 183 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 4: my members are very keen. There's four companies at the 184 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 4: moment who are undertaking exploration and you know they're very 185 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,840 Speaker 4: committed to doing that, but they will do so, you know, 186 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,119 Speaker 4: cautiously and in accordance with all of the environmental requirements 187 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 4: that have been set down as part of this process. 188 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 4: So we have to work through that. It takes time, 189 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 4: it takes money, and you know, we want to do 190 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 4: it right. 191 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: Well. 192 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: APA Chief Executive Andrew McConville, we really appreciate your time 193 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 1: this morning. 194 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 2: Thank you very much for coming in and chatting with us. 195 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:52,439 Speaker 3: Absolute pleasure, Katie, anytime. 196 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: Thank you.