Speaker 1: Well you always told that breakfast was the most important
Speaker 1: meal of the day. Well do you try and save
Speaker 1: all of your calories so you can enjoy a wine
Speaker 1: and some dessert at dinner. With more and more people
Speaker 1: embracing fasting as a way of life, today we share
Speaker 1: our thoughts and which is the most important meal of
Speaker 1: the day? And why Hi. I'm Leanne Ward and I'm
Speaker 1: Susie Burrow, and as two of Australia's leading dieticians who
Speaker 1: specialize in weight control, we bring you the Nutrition Couch,
Speaker 1: a weekly chat on everything that is new in the
Speaker 1: world of food, diets and nutrition as well as meals.
Speaker 1: Today we have a good chat about the growth of
Speaker 1: nutrition influences and how to sort the qualified from the
Speaker 1: not so qualified when it comes to dietary advice, and
Speaker 1: we also share some brand new research on the health
Speaker 1: of our bones and the roll of milk and dairy
Speaker 1: in our diet. But to kick us off today, Susie,
Speaker 1: it seems that every week there's a new expert, or
Speaker 1: a new book or a new program talking about nutrition.
Speaker 1: So what we wanted to discuss today was the fact
Speaker 1: that there's a very big difference between the qualifications of
Speaker 1: nutrition experts and influence, and why it's important to be
Speaker 1: aware of the mass media and influences these days. But
Speaker 1: before we jump into what nutrition qualifications actually look like,
Speaker 1: Suzia found a really interesting article posted by the American
Speaker 1: Council on Science and Health. So it was titled the
Speaker 1: Nutrition Analysis of food and beverages posted in social media
Speaker 1: accounts of highly followed celebrities, and I thought this was
Speaker 1: really interesting. So the article essentially surveyed the Instagram accounts
Speaker 1: of all of these celebrity influences and basically found what
Speaker 1: they were posting from a food and beverage perspective, and
Speaker 1: I thought it was really interesting. So the article starts
Speaker 1: by saying that celebrities are particularly influential on social media.
Speaker 1: Celebrities are perceived as fellow users, but they also perceived
Speaker 1: as more credible than ordinary users and more trustworthy than
Speaker 1: television advertisements. So celebrity posts can influence viewers through their
Speaker 1: attitude alignment, social connection, and positive meaningful transfer from likable
Speaker 1: people in the food and beverages that they depict. So
Speaker 1: this is, I guess, a real problem that we face
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, and research is now confirmed what
Speaker 1: we already know is that influencers are actually considered very
Speaker 1: credible and very trustworthy, and sometimes even more credible than
Speaker 1: actual credentialed people such as you and I, Susie, which
Speaker 1: kind of breaks my heart, but I guess you know,
Speaker 1: that's the reality of living with social media these days.
Speaker 1: It's everywhere, and you know, celebrities are often sort of
Speaker 1: you know, thought of as more qualified than actual qualified experts,
Speaker 1: which is quite sad.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it comes down to the fact that
Speaker 2: there's no level of accountability. So when you formally study
Speaker 2: nutrition and dietetics, and I think we should first say
Speaker 2: that we're by no means saying that a university qualified
Speaker 2: nutritionist is not someone who should or can have a say.
Speaker 2: I think we're talking really about a group of people
Speaker 2: who have no real formal qualifications. Is that when you
Speaker 2: do study dietetics, which is the profession assigned to give
Speaker 2: prescriptive dietary advice and in a clinical or medical setting,
Speaker 2: there is it's a profession, so there's certain levels of accreditation,
Speaker 2: there's peer review, there's a very high level of accountability
Speaker 2: that we're held to, and so we are so aware
Speaker 2: of that, but then you have influences or even much
Speaker 2: more or less trained nutrition experts who aren't even aware
Speaker 2: of that being out there. So I sometimes call it
Speaker 2: a little bit of the arrogance of ignorance because you're
Speaker 2: just actually not aware of that difference. And the example
Speaker 2: I like to use land is that you know, in
Speaker 2: the case of law, you would generally not have a
Speaker 2: legal secretary giving legal advice on a court case.
Speaker 3: You would have a qualified lawyer. The same in.
Speaker 2: Surgery, you wouldn't have a surgical trainee or someone who
Speaker 2: had an interest in surgery doing the surgery. Ever, but
Speaker 2: because of nutrition, we all so we all tend to
Speaker 2: have an opinion. And I think it also reminds me
Speaker 2: of being COVID. A lot of parents were singing the
Speaker 2: praises of teachers because all of a sudden we all
Speaker 2: realize that actually we're not qualified enough to be teachers,
Speaker 2: and it's a very highly skilled thing. So, you know,
Speaker 2: I don't disagree, but I think first of all, it
Speaker 2: really kicked off with the Internet because all of a
Speaker 2: sudden people had access to vast volumes of information, and
Speaker 2: more so now there's of course social media where it's
Speaker 2: so common. And the reason people go into nutrition is
Speaker 2: it's reasonably easy. We all eat, you easily, can take
Speaker 2: some great.
Speaker 3: Photos of food, you can talk about it.
Speaker 2: And there's also, as we are very aware of, some
Speaker 2: very baseline qualifications, whether it's a certificate or a quick
Speaker 2: course in nutrition offered by different training institutions, which means
Speaker 2: that people have some level of a false sense of
Speaker 2: security about what they do know without having any concept
Speaker 2: of the vastness that is nutrition and applied nutrition and
Speaker 2: clinical nutrition, where you're really dealing with people who have
Speaker 2: years and years of training and specialists training in certain fields,
Speaker 2: and accountability and an accreditation that's required. So you know,
Speaker 2: I think that a reference point I've been given to
Speaker 2: people lately is because as I get older, I feel
Speaker 2: more passionately about it, and I do get frustrated when
Speaker 2: I see really poorly low qualified people writing very prescriptive
Speaker 2: diets and dietary advice and having a voice, because I
Speaker 2: have noticed that in mass media and in publishing, they
Speaker 2: don't necessarily check qualifications of people writing the book. So
Speaker 2: that's a concern in itself because that's obviously opening the
Speaker 2: gate to a flood of this information. And as soon
Speaker 2: as you've got access to mass media and be publishing houses.
Speaker 2: To me, that's a major concern, and certainly in past
Speaker 2: years we've seen the flow and effect of that with people,
Speaker 2: like without naming names, there's been a couple of high
Speaker 2: profile cases where people who weren't qualified were giving actually
Speaker 2: dangerous nutrition advice. So you would think that really publishing
Speaker 2: houses would be a lot more across it. But the
Speaker 2: recommendation I give to people through my channels is that
Speaker 2: you want someone who has a tertiary qualification.
Speaker 3: In nutrition at a minimum, So you may not need.
Speaker 2: A clinical dietitian, but at least someone who has studied
Speaker 2: nutrition and sire at a tertiary level, so they might
Speaker 2: have a Bachelor of Nutrition.
Speaker 3: And a strong interest.
Speaker 2: They might have a Master's of nutrition, so they're very
Speaker 2: highly qualified, even though they may not have gone and
Speaker 2: done applied clinical dietetics.
Speaker 3: Now you and I dietitians.
Speaker 2: We've done the five year slog to have that accreditation,
Speaker 2: We've worked clinically. Obviously, we naturally will always recommend dietitians
Speaker 2: because that's our profession and what we're proud to be.
Speaker 3: But I will say.
Speaker 2: There are a lot of quite highly qualified nutritionists as well,
Speaker 2: but just because it's nutritionist does not mean they have
Speaker 2: a degree, and a certificate is not enough, so please
Speaker 2: you know, if you're taking prescriptive dietary advice from the
Speaker 2: people online influencers, check if they've got actually a tertiary
Speaker 2: degree because there's consequences for changes in diet and poor
Speaker 2: dietary advice and it may not be a do or
Speaker 2: die issue, but it can affect things like metabolism, which
Speaker 2: affects people's lives quite significantly long term. So I do
Speaker 2: feel it's really important that mass media publishing houses are
Speaker 2: taking their responsibility of making sure the people who are
Speaker 2: sending nutrition advice through their channels are appropriately qualified and
Speaker 2: credit children. A certificate, a diploma is not enough. You
Speaker 2: need to be in an accredited profession as a nutritionist
Speaker 2: with the Nutrition Society of Australia or with the Dietitians
Speaker 2: Association of Australia, where you have that accreditation and accountability
Speaker 2: that you would have many profession whether you're a medical doctor,
Speaker 2: a lawyer, an accountant, because yeah, there's a certain level
Speaker 2: of accountability. We all need to make sure that we
Speaker 2: are using evidence based practice and doing good for our
Speaker 2: clients and not unknowingly doing things that aren't great for them.
Speaker 1: And I think that's a great point in terms of
Speaker 1: what a nutrition qualification actually means. But I think this article,
Speaker 1: to me, it's a little bit scary because yes, the
Speaker 1: nutrition sort of experts or even those with nutrition certificates
Speaker 1: are you know, that's a whole box in itself. And
Speaker 1: on the other side of the scale, we've got people
Speaker 1: who have zero qualifications in nutrition giving out nutrition advice.
Speaker 1: So going back to this article, Suzi, because I actually
Speaker 1: think that's really important for people to understand how influential
Speaker 1: celebrities are who have zero qualifications. You know, at least
Speaker 1: some people, even though they did have a little certificate,
Speaker 1: if they're posting recipes online, they're not giving out prescriptive
Speaker 1: nutrition advice or taking clients. At least that's something and
Speaker 1: they have a little bit of a baseline understanding of nutrition.
Speaker 1: But a lot of these influences celebrities who are giving
Speaker 1: out nutrition advice or creating recipes or you know, showing
Speaker 1: what I eat in a day. You know, there's a
Speaker 1: lot of models who show what I eat in a day,
Speaker 1: and whether or not they mean to, they're basically portraying
Speaker 1: that this is what people should eat to get the
Speaker 1: body that they have. So it's a little bit sort
Speaker 1: of a mind build on social media. But the reason
Speaker 1: that I really liked this article today and wanted to
Speaker 1: chat about it was because it really did it gave
Speaker 1: a really good analysis of some really large social media accounts.
Speaker 1: So basically, this article looked at Susie a combined following
Speaker 1: of what were they athletes, actors, television personalities, and musical
Speaker 1: artists on Instagram with a combined following of five point
Speaker 1: seven million followers. That is a lot of people and
Speaker 1: a lot of people to influence. So they essentially broke
Speaker 1: down the nutritional value of these celebrity posts and they were,
Speaker 1: you know, they had an influence of five point seven million.
Speaker 1: I can't get over that back, guys, it's huge. So
Speaker 1: off the three thousand and sixty five media posts that
Speaker 1: they you know, looked at the nutritional value of twy
Speaker 1: four hundred of them were food based and twenty seven
Speaker 1: hundred of them were beverage based. And among foods, there
Speaker 1: were posts for snacks and sweets and they were threefold
Speaker 1: more frequent than posts about fruits, vegetables, and grains. Among drinks,
Speaker 1: half of the drinks promoted on these celebrity accounts were alcohol,
Speaker 1: followed by coffee, tea, sweetened beverages, and lastly water. So
Speaker 1: when they looked at the analysis of these celebrities, eighty
Speaker 1: seven percent SUSI offered less than healthy food advice and
Speaker 1: eighty nine percent of influencers offered less than healthy beverage
Speaker 1: advice online. And now male and female influencers were equally
Speaker 1: as unhealthy in terms of the advice or the products
Speaker 1: that they were promoting, and women tended to favor sugar
Speaker 1: a little bit more and men tended to favor salt
Speaker 1: little bit more. And males of all of these celebrity
Speaker 1: accounts that they looked at actually posted more images of
Speaker 1: alcohol than females. So I think that there are a few,
Speaker 1: I guess conclusions that we can draw from this study,
Speaker 1: and I think the first one is, you know, if
Speaker 1: we believe that influencers post about their own experiences, whether
Speaker 1: that's sponsored or not, I think the nutritional choices are
Speaker 1: a little bit problematic. I mean, eighty seven percent of
Speaker 1: them posted less than healthy food choices and eighty nine
Speaker 1: percent of them posted less than healthy beverage choices. So
Speaker 1: I think that's a sort of an issue in itself.
Speaker 1: But the second thing that I think is, you know,
Speaker 1: also an issue was that the article looked at posts
Speaker 1: with less than healthy nutrition scores and they were actually
Speaker 1: associated with increased likes and comments from their followers. So basically,
Speaker 1: what this article is saying is that the least healthy
Speaker 1: food and beverages that these celebrities posted, the more you know,
Speaker 1: followers and engagement got and that sort of indicates a
Speaker 1: greater social approval. So posting something like a croissant or
Speaker 1: a muffin got them more likes, comments, and follows then
Speaker 1: posting some thing like a glass of water and a
Speaker 1: piece of fruit. So whether or not these influencers understand it,
Speaker 1: they're sort of knowingly or unknowingly, you know, unknowingly using
Speaker 1: their influence to perhaps either harm or derail other people's
Speaker 1: healthy habits because they know that they're going to get
Speaker 1: more engagement, more followers, more likes with more unhealthy food posts.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure if influencers actually realize this. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of them do, Susie. I certainly know
Speaker 1: on my account that if I posted a recipe of
Speaker 1: a cake, I'm going to get a lot more engagement
Speaker 1: than if I post a recipe of a salad. I
Speaker 1: think a lot of people are aware of that, but
Speaker 1: I think that you know it is quite problematic when
Speaker 1: we look at you know it from an influenced perspective,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people the sure you know it
Speaker 1: might be a musician, right, Susie. They're not saying that
Speaker 1: they're qualified in nutrition, but the fact that they're posting recipes,
Speaker 1: or the fact that they've got their own, you know,
Speaker 1: eight week healthy lifestyle program, or the fact that they're
Speaker 1: showing what they eat every single day and what I
Speaker 1: eat in a day videos, it creates this sense of
Speaker 1: you know, qualified enough to know what I'm talking about,
Speaker 1: and people sort of follow that with that whether or
Speaker 1: not these celebrities that me to do that.
Speaker 2: I'm laughing because whenever I put cakes or banana breads
Speaker 2: up that they have the highest post by far. And
Speaker 2: I'm aware of that because I do see a number
Speaker 2: of nutrition influencers who obviously are following that interest. So
Speaker 2: they are posting process cakes that are perceived as slightly healthier,
Speaker 2: but ultimately to get the engagement. And I think it
Speaker 2: really stands out for me when we're chatting about the
Speaker 2: promotion of different diets, you know, especially when they've got
Speaker 2: a really great body themselves and they're certainly selling whether
Speaker 2: it's a program or a diet or a product based
Speaker 2: on that. And that's where it gets quite complicated with
Speaker 2: sponsored type posts because obviously every professional two is going
Speaker 2: to have different criteria around what they are comfortable posting.
Speaker 2: So you're absolutely right, one of you know, the issue
Speaker 2: in social media is it's just so freely available. Again,
Speaker 2: going back to the medical example or the law example,
Speaker 2: you don't see lawyers or generally doctors. You may see
Speaker 2: plastic surgeons doing it a little bit before and afters,
Speaker 2: but you don't generally see you know, breast cancer surgeons
Speaker 2: or gut surgeons saying I just cured this person of cancer,
Speaker 2: because again they are aware that it's a lot more
Speaker 2: complicated than what you can communicate generally on social media,
Speaker 2: and so you will also this will also remind everyone
Speaker 2: that that is also one of the reasons you won't
Speaker 2: see dieticians giving case studies or testimonials or before and
Speaker 2: after because of the potential issues with that when it
Speaker 2: goes into a mass media in a control format and
Speaker 2: very short number of words, when you don't have the
Speaker 2: context of patients and medical care and the complexity of
Speaker 2: human beings, So you're absolutely right. I think that the
Speaker 2: main advice we can give people, or even at a
Speaker 2: broader level of communicating via than Nutrition Couch podcast, is
Speaker 2: that people whenever there's prescriptive dietary advice being given, diets,
Speaker 2: recommended products sold, it really needs to be under the
Speaker 2: guidance of someone who is qualified. And when you take
Speaker 2: a deep dive, very very few of these people are
Speaker 2: and even if they have some qualification, it's often not
Speaker 2: an accredited profession where they're qualified to be giving prescriptive
Speaker 2: dietary advice in a medical or health care context. So
Speaker 2: if you're battling any or even just for health long
Speaker 2: term or medical issues, or looking at supplements, all of
Speaker 2: that is very prescriptive dietary information that should be only
Speaker 2: I feel very strongly about that should only be given
Speaker 2: by someone who has a tertiary qualification in nutrition and dietetics.
Speaker 2: And if you don't have that, I think that it's
Speaker 2: a big issue in general and really need to take
Speaker 2: a look at the potential follow on effect of giving
Speaker 2: that advice or if your advice or prescription gets into
Speaker 2: the hands of the wrong person because we are taught
Speaker 2: as professionals it's actually not about us. Yes, of course
Speaker 2: we want to look fit and healthy, but you know,
Speaker 2: it's really about the people that we're sharing the information
Speaker 2: too and how that's relevant to them, as opposed to
Speaker 2: it's not about us in the center, and that's a
Speaker 2: very fine line at current time, where so much of
Speaker 2: social media requires it to be about us to remain
Speaker 2: relevant in the market and to remain competitive. But really,
Speaker 2: as trained professionals, what we're taught is it's not about us,
Speaker 2: and that's where we get ourselves into trouble at time.
Speaker 2: So my final I guess note on it given you know,
Speaker 2: it is quite alarming when you hear is check the
Speaker 2: qualifications of the people you're getting nutrition advice from, and
Speaker 2: if they don't have a science degree, they don't have
Speaker 2: an undergraduate and hopefully postgraduate and nutrition I wouldn't be
Speaker 2: listening to very much of what they had to say
Speaker 2: at all.
Speaker 1: And I would even suggest doing a little bit of
Speaker 1: a cleanup of your own social media followings. Whether or
Speaker 1: not you believe this to be true or whether or
Speaker 1: not you intend this to be true. A lot of
Speaker 1: times you know, celebrities are giving us influence in terms
Speaker 1: of what we are perceiving as healthy, even though you
Speaker 1: know they might not be saying, oh, I'm a qualified
Speaker 1: nutrition expert. You see your favorite celebrity eating this or
Speaker 1: drinking that, and automatically that makes you want to do
Speaker 1: that as well. And Susie really a good example that
Speaker 1: sticks out in my mind is as a prominent Australian
Speaker 1: model who owns a I'm pretty sure it's a tequila
Speaker 1: company with her hobby, and she will constantly post all
Speaker 1: about it on her Instagram store worries, but never always
Speaker 1: like recipes or photos of drinks or using the tequila
Speaker 1: or that sort of thing, or promoting it, but very ever, rarely,
Speaker 1: I don't even know if I've ever seen her actually
Speaker 1: post a photo of herself drinking that tequila. So we
Speaker 1: as you know, her followers and people have that perception
Speaker 1: that she drinks that and she's able to maintain this.
Speaker 1: You know, rocking figures as a huge Australian model, but
Speaker 1: you know, I would really really has it a guess,
Speaker 1: Susie if she ever, if you know, actually drinks that
Speaker 1: tequila or drinks that amount alcohol that she sort of
Speaker 1: posts about and promotes so whether or not we we
Speaker 1: mean to sort of have this perception that she does that,
Speaker 1: so it's okay for us to go out and have
Speaker 1: a few alcoholic drinks every single weekend and try to
Speaker 1: sort of achieve the body that she has. So I
Speaker 1: think it's really important to do a little bit of
Speaker 1: a sort of cleanup of your social media and just
Speaker 1: be aware of the people that you're following, and you know,
Speaker 1: if they're sort of having a negative influence on you,
Speaker 1: or you feel like they do post a lot about
Speaker 1: you know, what they eat and what they drink, all
Speaker 1: that sort of thing and it's not in line with,
Speaker 1: you know, the healthy life style that you want to live.
Speaker 1: Just be a little bit wary of that and maybe
Speaker 1: do a little bit of an unfollow of so some
Speaker 1: social accounts if you don't feel like they promote positive
Speaker 1: nutrition messages on a regular basis or have the qualifications
Speaker 1: to do so.
Speaker 2: Good point all, right, Well, leanne onto a topic that
Speaker 2: we probably feel a bit happier about because it's right
Speaker 2: off our alley as nutrition.
Speaker 3: Professionals, is breakfast.
Speaker 2: Because I think we've spoken a number of topics in
Speaker 2: the nutrition cash now we're getting up to our fiftieth episode.
Speaker 2: But when I was having a little look through brainstorming,
Speaker 2: I felt that some of the big questions we sort
Speaker 2: of hadn't covered, We perhaps had sort of missed it.
Speaker 3: And I think their age old interest.
Speaker 2: Areas for people, And I thought breakfast was a really
Speaker 2: good one today because I think with the surge in
Speaker 2: interest in fasting regimes, we've really come to question breakfast
Speaker 2: and how important it is. And sometimes by ease or
Speaker 2: lack of time, we're sort of very happy to say, oh,
Speaker 2: we don't need breakfast anymore, and I'm fasting. But I
Speaker 2: don't know, you know, as I reflect on work I
Speaker 2: do with my clients, or actually recently I published a
Speaker 2: media story with your help to a number of dieticians
Speaker 2: asking them what they ate in the day, and you know,
Speaker 2: they all had.
Speaker 3: A really big breakfast.
Speaker 2: And I thought, let's have a little chat about breakfast,
Speaker 2: because I think there is a bit of an idea
Speaker 2: out there. It's really good to fast, but I don't
Speaker 2: like my clients to fast too long. Indeed, I will
Speaker 2: use fasting as a tool for some clients if they
Speaker 2: don't feel overly hungry in the morning, if I'm trying
Speaker 2: to shift some people off a plateau. At times, I
Speaker 2: may use a five to two, but ultimately I'm using
Speaker 2: those programs to get my clients hungry in the morning
Speaker 2: because for me, you know, that is a well not
Speaker 2: even for me, for science, for physiology, the human body
Speaker 2: is program to burn calories in the first half of
Speaker 2: the day. That's why if you have a big breakfast,
Speaker 2: you'll notice that you're hungry two or three hours later,
Speaker 2: which can be a bit disconcerting for people who don't
Speaker 2: like the hunger and handsome are more happier skipping breakfast
Speaker 2: so they don't feel hungry until lunchtime. But what I
Speaker 2: really like to share with my clients is that it's
Speaker 2: actually good to be hungry in the morning. It's a
Speaker 2: sign your body is burning your food well but nutritional lean.
Speaker 2: The other issue I have when people skip breakfast is,
Speaker 2: of course they miss out on a lot of their
Speaker 2: dietary fiber, because in this time of carb cutting and
Speaker 2: fasting and Taiketo diets, low carb diets, our good old
Speaker 2: whole grain breads and cereals and even fruit can take
Speaker 2: a bit of a beating. And it's not uncommon for
Speaker 2: me to have a client who is having maybe a
Speaker 2: coffee in the morning and a reasonably sort of not
Speaker 2: much at all until lunch, where they might go to
Speaker 2: a salad, but not having that whole grain bread or
Speaker 2: not having some oats in the morning or some good
Speaker 2: quality cereal or even some fruit means that their fiber
Speaker 2: intake takes a significant reduction, and that has long term
Speaker 2: consequences for metabolism and gut health and digestive comfort, because
Speaker 2: they're the same clients who'll come back and say they're
Speaker 2: not going to the bathroom as frequently and they're feeling constipated.
Speaker 2: So I want to be really clear that I'm a
Speaker 2: big fan of breakfast. The issue I have often with
Speaker 2: breakfast is that people have too much coffee at the
Speaker 2: expense of breakfast, or use coffee to delay their hunger
Speaker 2: so then they're not having a proper and then they
Speaker 2: hungry later in the morning. But my ideal breakfast for
Speaker 2: a client would definitely include some whole grain bread, a
Speaker 2: small serve of whole grain cereal, even if it's with yoga,
Speaker 2: alongside the coffee, because I really want to tick that box,
Speaker 2: particularly on the fiber that a lot of my clients
Speaker 2: who are cutting their carbs often don't get.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, and I would probably say that I
Speaker 1: would say maybe twenty to thirty percent of my clients
Speaker 1: would adopt something like fasting Susie. But the large majority
Speaker 1: of my female coaching clients actually do eat breakfast regularly
Speaker 1: a because they're hungry and be they're doing a level
Speaker 1: of activity or exercise that supports them actually eating, you know,
Speaker 1: properly in the morning, whether that's pre workout or post workout.
Speaker 1: So I would say the majority of my clients eat breakfast.
Speaker 1: I myself at the moment, definitely, while breastfeeding, do I
Speaker 1: wake up starving, whether that's five am or six am,
Speaker 1: I'm generally starving. I'm not someone who tends to eat
Speaker 1: overnight if I have to feed, but I definitely do,
Speaker 1: you know, I want to eat first thing in the
Speaker 1: morning when I wake up. But pre me and pre pregnancy,
Speaker 1: I was someone that sort of doubled with a little
Speaker 1: bit of fasting some days just due to a busy morning,
Speaker 1: I get up, I do it. A couple of early
Speaker 1: podcasts with some US also have some US clients, and
Speaker 1: by the time I even thought about food or had
Speaker 1: you know, a second to even take a take a breath.
Speaker 1: It was like nine ten, eleven o'clock in the morning.
Speaker 1: So I have sometimes adopted fasting if I'm not training
Speaker 1: early on, but majority of the time I do sort
Speaker 1: of eat breakfast because I am sort of feeling hungry
Speaker 1: in the morning. And I agree with you, I think
Speaker 1: fiber for a lot of people, there's a large bulk
Speaker 1: of it found in our breakfast and I, for one,
Speaker 1: really like breakfast type foods. I love my opennight oats.
Speaker 1: I love nothing more than some eggs on some sourder
Speaker 1: or even something like a cheer pudding with some fruit
Speaker 1: and some yogurt as well. So I'm a big fan
Speaker 1: of breakfast foods in general. I know you can eat
Speaker 1: breakfast foods anytime of the day, but it really is
Speaker 1: something that I, you know, take great pleasure in is
Speaker 1: actually eating breakfast. But I really do think it depends
Speaker 1: on the individual and their circumstances. But for anyone who
Speaker 1: was training with a particular focus on performance or you know,
Speaker 1: actually improving their training, whether it's running faster, lifting heavier,
Speaker 1: you know that sort of thing, it is more beneficial
Speaker 1: to particularly your training first in the morning to actually
Speaker 1: have some fuel on board, or to have some fuel
Speaker 1: post that training session as well. So there are large
Speaker 1: benefits from eating breakfast for many people. But as you said,
Speaker 1: from sort of a hormonal perspective, for some clients it
Speaker 1: may be beneficial to fast, but not sort of extended
Speaker 1: periods of fast, or if you're fasting and then you're
Speaker 1: someone who overeats at the next few meals, perhaps that's
Speaker 1: also not you know, not a great idea as well.
Speaker 1: So it's not a magic bullet, it's not a golden
Speaker 1: sort of a lixa that we can just do that
Speaker 1: fasting helps with weight loss. It's very sort of individualized,
Speaker 1: and it does suit certain people, doesn't it.
Speaker 2: And I think it also differs because the thing that
Speaker 2: I observe with my clients is they're often eating according
Speaker 2: to their head or a sheet. They're wanting to be
Speaker 2: told what time.
Speaker 3: To have breakfast.
Speaker 2: But I would say it's going to differ depending on
Speaker 2: your hunger, because if you've had a big meal the
Speaker 2: night before, and you've had a large dinner maybe dessert,
Speaker 2: and you've slept quite late, you might not be hungry
Speaker 2: until ten o'clock. But other days you might have had
Speaker 2: a light dinner and be starving at six thirty. So
Speaker 2: I think it doesn't have to be constant that you know,
Speaker 2: change is one of the best things we can do
Speaker 2: to support metabolic rate. So I would be confident to
Speaker 2: adjust and sometimes that breakfast maybe an hour or two
Speaker 2: later because you're actually not that hungry, and that's okay too.
Speaker 2: But I generally encourage my clients once we've sort of
Speaker 2: re established some hungry in the morning and hopefully got
Speaker 2: them a little bit active too, you know, a twenty
Speaker 2: minute walk just to get things going, you know, and
Speaker 2: within an hour or two after waking, I would certainly
Speaker 2: want something to go in and I generally suggest to
Speaker 2: my clients before eight. The trick is you've got to
Speaker 2: really cater for that coffee, because if you have a
Speaker 2: milk coffee, it will delay that hunger and that's when
Speaker 2: you'll find that delayed appetite through the day. So I
Speaker 2: do sort of with my clients now, I tend to
Speaker 2: be much more if you're having milk coffee, it has
Speaker 2: to be with the food. So you can't have the
Speaker 2: milk coffee and then have something an hour or two later.
Speaker 2: Wait for the hour until you have the coffee if
Speaker 2: you can, which is better anyway, the longer you delay
Speaker 2: the coffee from a quarter doll perspective, you've already got
Speaker 2: natural quarters all floating around, so you're better to write
Speaker 2: off that and then have the coffee a bit later,
Speaker 2: but wait and then have them together as a meal
Speaker 2: so you're satisfied, and then you'll go the two, three,
Speaker 2: four hours until you actually have a meal again, rather
Speaker 2: than what I find is this drip feeding of food
Speaker 2: or morning whether they'll have one mealk coffee and then
Speaker 2: a little bit of breakfast and then another coffee and
Speaker 2: it's been spread over two or three hours, when you're
Speaker 2: better to bring it together have a proper meal, because
Speaker 2: it plays games into your head because you're feeling like
Speaker 2: you haven't eaten, but you kind of have, as opposed
Speaker 2: to sitting down and consciously sitting down and having a
Speaker 2: meal and the coffee together. And that's a really good
Speaker 2: trick if you're trying to identify and isolate that morning hunger,
Speaker 2: so you can actually enjoy a proper meal rather than
Speaker 2: snacking throughout the entire morning.
Speaker 1: And I think that's what it does tend to do
Speaker 1: for some people who aren't using fasting. I guess the
Speaker 1: best way for their lifestyle is that they might have
Speaker 1: something like a milk coffee to try and delay their hunger.
Speaker 1: Then they might get a few hours in and have
Speaker 1: like a muslibar because they're sort of a little bit
Speaker 1: hungry but not too hungry for a proper meal. Then
Speaker 1: they might snack on a little bit of chocolate or
Speaker 1: have like half a bickie or something like that. And
Speaker 1: just the nutritional profile of the foods that they're choosing
Speaker 1: aren't ideal, and they end up probably having the same
Speaker 1: amount of calories as what a good quality breakfast did,
Speaker 1: But the quality of the snacks that they were choosing
Speaker 1: all morning isn't anywhere near the quality of you know,
Speaker 1: a good breakfast could have been. So I really do
Speaker 1: think it's it's, you know, as we always say, it's
Speaker 1: dependent on the person. And also it's not something that
Speaker 1: you can just say, oh, well, everybody should fast till
Speaker 1: ten am, right, because if you're a busy mum and
Speaker 1: you're you know, your breastfeeding mmy get up at four am.
Speaker 1: You can't wait till ten am. God, I'd want to
Speaker 1: eat my insides that I'd be so hungry, zoozy, i'd
Speaker 1: feel unwell. Or if you're someone that you know does
Speaker 1: night shift and then doesn't wake up till nine o'clock,
Speaker 1: you might be able to, you know, delay breakfast because
Speaker 1: you're not genuinely hungry till ten thirty eleven or even twelve.
Speaker 1: So it really does depend on sort of our sleep
Speaker 1: wake routines for a lot of us, and also the
Speaker 1: amount of activity that we're doing. If we're going up
Speaker 1: and we're smashing an early morning, you know, a forty
Speaker 1: five class at five am, we're not going to want
Speaker 1: to delay our breakfast till ten o'clock. That is not
Speaker 1: ideal in terms of recovery and fueling our body properly.
Speaker 1: But if we're getting up at nine o'clock and we're
Speaker 1: heading straight into work, we're not doing any activity at all.
Speaker 1: Sure eating at ten thirty eleven might be might be
Speaker 1: absolutely okay. So it really does, you know, I think
Speaker 1: we've dispelled that myths that breakfast is the most important
Speaker 1: meal of the day, But for a lot of it's
Speaker 1: breakfast can be a really important addition to an overall
Speaker 1: healthy lifestyle. So I wouldn't say, as a general there's
Speaker 1: a most important meal of the day Sui. I'm a
Speaker 1: big believer that all our meals should be important. All
Speaker 1: our meals should be nourishing and contain a good mix
Speaker 1: of you know, carbohydrates, fiber, protein, healthy bats, of course
Speaker 1: our vegetables, and more color the better. So there's not
Speaker 1: one meal that is better as such, but it really
Speaker 1: does depend on your lifestyle. And I feel like a
Speaker 1: nice balance of good quality meals throughout the day is
Speaker 1: probably more important than you know, one good quality meal
Speaker 1: or one this is the most important meal for the day.
Speaker 2: And I think another tip, just to finish off our segment,
Speaker 2: it's about also having a breakfast that you really look
Speaker 2: forward to. So if you don't love cereal but feel
Speaker 2: like you should be having it all the same, you know,
Speaker 2: a piece of soggy toast isn't your thing? Really, brainstorm
Speaker 2: and think what's the breakfast that I would actually look
Speaker 2: forward to eating. And I think you know, once you
Speaker 2: have a delicious breakfast wrap or a chia yogurt overnight bowl,
Speaker 2: something that's really delicious and yummy and you look forward
Speaker 2: to it, it'll become an event in your day, as
Speaker 2: opposed to just throwing something in because you think you
Speaker 2: should or or as we've described, sort of skipping it
Speaker 2: through the time and then getting overly hungry.
Speaker 3: So all of those tricks will work well.
Speaker 1: And that sort of leads us nicely, Susie into our
Speaker 1: last segment where our listener question was really asking about
Speaker 1: calcium and bone health. So there's sort of a I
Speaker 1: would say, a little bit of talk from a few,
Speaker 1: I guess more unqualified people online who was sort of
Speaker 1: saying how milk leeches calcium from our bone. So a
Speaker 1: listener wrote in and basically said, is milk calsy, is
Speaker 1: dairy healthy? Should we be having it for calcium and
Speaker 1: doesn't have a negative impact on our guard house because
Speaker 1: you know, throughout university, SUSI, we very much learned that,
Speaker 1: you know, dairy had calcium which supported our bone health,
Speaker 1: and just I feel like in the last year or
Speaker 1: two there's been a lot of noise on social media
Speaker 1: and from you know, quote unquote experts, whether or not
Speaker 1: they're experts, it's essentially been saying that actually dairy.
Speaker 3: Can do the opposite.
Speaker 1: So I actually had a really good hunt around and
Speaker 1: I found a really good quality research paper, Suzy, that
Speaker 1: came out very recently on the effects of milk supplementation
Speaker 1: on bone health indices in adults. So this was a
Speaker 1: meta analysis of randomized control trials. So what this means
Speaker 1: for our listeners at home, randomized control trials are our
Speaker 1: sort of best quality research that we could do, and
Speaker 1: a meta analysis is taking a whole lot of these
Speaker 1: ricts or these randomized control trials and analyzing them all together.
Speaker 1: So in terms of research, this is top quality. We
Speaker 1: really can't get much better than this. So a meta
Speaker 1: analysis of randomized control trials is about as good as
Speaker 1: we can get. So I was really really excited when
Speaker 1: I saw this paper, Susy. And it's very recent as well,
Speaker 1: which is good. It's not something that's like ten years old.
Speaker 1: So essentially, what this paper showed us and what we
Speaker 1: know is that milk contains a number of you know,
Speaker 1: really healthy nutrients and a lot of sort of bone
Speaker 1: beneficial nutrients as well, particularly calcy and vitamin D that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. But there is a sort of a
Speaker 1: school of thought that milk, due to the deer galactose content,
Speaker 1: may have some unfavorable effects on bone health. So this
Speaker 1: meta analysis looked at a number of different trial studies
Speaker 1: twenty ricts in total, and the trial duration from these
Speaker 1: studies was from one month up to thirty six months.
Speaker 1: So essentially what it looked at and what it wanted
Speaker 1: to clarify was the effects of milk supplementation on bone
Speaker 1: mineral density, bone turnover markers, and hormonal indices related to
Speaker 1: bone metabolism. So I think the results of this SUZI
Speaker 1: were quite interesting. So what the studies found that basically,
Speaker 1: it came to the consensus that milk supplementation resulted in
Speaker 1: a small but significant increase in bone mineral density at
Speaker 1: the hip and lumber spine, but milk supplementation did not
Speaker 1: significantly affect whole body bone mineral density and femeral neck
Speaker 1: bone mineral density. In addition to this, milk in the
Speaker 1: diet may potentially increase the likelihood of preventing bone loss
Speaker 1: by restoring bone homeostasis through the modulation of the calcium,
Speaker 1: vitamin D pth axis, bone remodeling rate, and growth hormonal
Speaker 1: IGF one axis. That's a mouthful. So essentially what this means, Susie,
Speaker 1: is that milk doesn't leach calcium from our bones. If anything,
Speaker 1: it may potentially help with reducing bone loss and providing
Speaker 1: benefits long term. So I think the bottom line from
Speaker 1: this study and from the you know, it was sort
Speaker 1: of I had to take it a few times and
Speaker 1: read it over it really get my head around it.
Speaker 1: The bottom line is, if you like milk, drink it.
Speaker 1: It may have some good positive benefits. But if you
Speaker 1: don't like it from a taste perspective, from an ethical perspective,
Speaker 1: don't drink it. It's absolutely okay. But I really don't
Speaker 1: think we can go around saying that milk is bad
Speaker 1: at leeches calcium from our bones, because this top quality
Speaker 1: research showed the opposite of that, if anything, milk is
Speaker 1: beneficial for our bone health. So did I summarize this
Speaker 1: pretty well? Susie? Are you a milk drinker? Do your
Speaker 1: twins drink milk? I know milk Mea is certainly a
Speaker 1: milk machine at the moment. A little thing or she
Speaker 1: does is drink milk. Do the twins drink it? Do
Speaker 1: you drink it?
Speaker 2: I have always been a big dairy drinker. We had
Speaker 2: light milk from I think eight or ten years of age.
Speaker 3: I'll have it.
Speaker 2: In my coffee. I probably have two, maybe three serves
Speaker 2: a day. My twins are a little bit funny. I
Speaker 2: do have a lactose intolerant child who's quite fod mappy,
Speaker 2: so I do give them flavored milk, which is a
Speaker 2: bit controversial, I will say, but again I'm sort of
Speaker 2: aware of that need. And this, again, LeAnn, comes down
Speaker 2: to the background of people giving that advice. So when
Speaker 2: people are making sweeping statements about nutrients that isn't necessarily
Speaker 2: the understood truth. I would be questioning it first and foremost.
Speaker 2: And the way I work it with clients now because
Speaker 2: there is a much greater interest in plant based diets,
Speaker 2: and of course we've spoken before on the podcast about
Speaker 2: plant based alternatives to milk. It's a bit like being
Speaker 2: a vegetarian. It's a personal preference. But I am very
Speaker 2: conscious that I have a whole group of women who
Speaker 2: I believe are not getting enough dietary calcium, certainly nowhere
Speaker 2: near the recommendations of about thirteen hn milligrams for postmenopausal women.
Speaker 2: So I will just make a point that if they're
Speaker 2: choosing to not include dairy or to eliminate all milks,
Speaker 2: to be aware of that. Now, we can have other
Speaker 2: forms of it, as we've discussed it previously, but as
Speaker 2: a dietitian, it's my job to let them know that
Speaker 2: their nutrient intake of that calcium is low, and I
Speaker 2: would be mindful that a significant number of Stralians have
Speaker 2: osteopenia and an osteoporosis. So I am a dairy drinker
Speaker 2: and my kids will have yogurt, cheese most days and milk,
Speaker 2: so they would have their three serves.
Speaker 3: I'm not obsessive.
Speaker 2: So yeah, as I said, with clients, so I try
Speaker 2: not to put my personal views on it as much
Speaker 2: as let them sort of say how they're preferring and
Speaker 2: then just ticking the box on those nutrients. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's interesting because you do hear all of those flyaway
Speaker 2: kind of comments. And indeed, even genetically you have people
Speaker 2: who have very little dietary calcium and have no issue
Speaker 2: with their bone health. So you know, some of it
Speaker 2: is genetics, and we don't know everything. But I will
Speaker 2: finalize this by saying that a few years ago, when
Speaker 2: I was working in elite level sport, I had an
Speaker 2: NBA basketballer come through the local basketball team and his
Speaker 2: career ended because of terrible stress fractures in his ankle.
Speaker 2: And I had just done an assessment on him and
Speaker 2: just out of interest, found out that he was a
Speaker 2: non dairy milk drinker because he was lactose intolerant and
Speaker 2: had never actively supplemented calcium. And I thought regularly to myself,
Speaker 2: I wonder what had happened to his bones had he
Speaker 2: have had that nutrient looked after, because it ended.
Speaker 3: His very lucrative NBA career.
Speaker 2: So there was a case study that I thought, h
Speaker 2: wonder what it would have been like if you did
Speaker 2: include some calcium fortified plant based milk or some dairy
Speaker 2: milk that was lactose free. So we don't know everything,
Speaker 2: but we could only give the best up to date
Speaker 2: science that we have.
Speaker 3: And I think we'll leave it there.
Speaker 2: I think so all right, Well, that brings us to
Speaker 2: the end of the Nutrition Couch podcast. If you haven't
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Speaker 3: You for listening.
Speaker 1: We'll catch you guys on Wednesday.