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Speaker 1: Hey mum, where do babies come from?

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Speaker 2: Hey?

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Speaker 1: Dad? How did my brother end up in our family?

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Speaker 3: These are the questions that so many parents don't really

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Speaker 3: know how to answer. Like we know how to answer them,

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Speaker 3: but when our child comes to us and ask the

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Speaker 3: question on the spot, usually in front of friends at

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Speaker 3: a barbecue, around the dining table, we take a big,

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Speaker 3: deep breath and wonder how do we get through this

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Speaker 3: next couple of moments with our child. Today on the

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Speaker 3: Happy Families podcast, I'm speaking with Michelle Mitchell, the author

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Speaker 3: of Where do Babies Come From?

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Speaker 1: And Other questions children aged eight to twelve ask.

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Speaker 3: This is the Happy Family's podcast, Real Parenting Solutions, every

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Speaker 3: day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. My name is

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Speaker 3: Justin Coulson, and today Michelle Mitchell, the author of the book,

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Speaker 3: joins me to talk about it. Michelle, has it ever

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Speaker 3: happened to you? Did either of your two boys walk

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Speaker 3: up to you and say, hey, Mom, I need to.

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Speaker 2: Know do you know what I actually ask on this

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Speaker 2: the other day? And I don't even know how this

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Speaker 2: conversation came up, but I said, do you remember us

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Speaker 2: actually having this conversation?

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Speaker 1: And both of them said, Nat, you obviously did a

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Speaker 1: great job.

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Speaker 2: We actually can't imagine or remember it actually being a

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Speaker 2: formal conversation, so we obviously drip fed this information somehow

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Speaker 2: because they do know where babies came from.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, I should just mention as well.

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Speaker 3: By way of intro and bio, Michelle is the convener

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Speaker 3: of the Resilient Kids Conference that travels around the country

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Speaker 3: on an annual basis and dispenses incredible parenting wisdom. And

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Speaker 3: you've also written a couple of, well several other books,

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Speaker 3: including I've got some of them here on my bookshelf Tweens,

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Speaker 3: which is an absolute bestseller and a muster for parents

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Speaker 3: have children in that eight to twelve category. But you've

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Speaker 3: also written The Girl's Guide and The Guy's Guide to Puberty,

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Speaker 3: and my eleven year old daughter Emily.

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Speaker 1: Loves those books.

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Speaker 3: They are literally they're a permanent fixture on our living

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Speaker 3: room floor. She doesn't like the Boys One so much,

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Speaker 3: but she does like Girls One a lot, and we've

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Speaker 3: been over it and over and over it. So when

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Speaker 3: your new one came out, Where do Babies Come From?

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Speaker 3: I instantly contacted you and said, got to have it.

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Speaker 3: Emily's going to need it, and I don't. I don't

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Speaker 3: know a single person in this country or on this

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Speaker 3: planet that I trust more based on what you do

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Speaker 3: with the Purity books to help parents have this conversation

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Speaker 3: with their children.

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Speaker 2: I'm so grateful and I loved getting your text message,

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Speaker 2: like my daughter's so excited to read this, and I

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Speaker 2: was like, oh, it's so beautiful to hear that they're

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Speaker 2: actually excited about diving into a book like this. And

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Speaker 2: I have twenty five years of really funny stories and

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Speaker 2: good jokes and I am not going to die without

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Speaker 2: them being recorded in a book.

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Speaker 1: So Michelle hit me with one, Well tell me one

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Speaker 1: of your jokes.

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Speaker 2: Well, okay, So teeny tiny trouble. That's the baby goes

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Speaker 2: for her first scan and she doesn't want her private

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Speaker 2: parts to be seen, so she hides for the sonographer

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Speaker 2: and instead of getting any look at her private parts,

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Speaker 2: she just gives the sonographer like a big moon. So

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Speaker 2: all the ten year old boys will love that because

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Speaker 2: the baby just moons at the sonographer. Do you get it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah I do.

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Speaker 3: I was not laughing, I was looking. I was looking

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Speaker 3: for more that is funny. No, I get it. It's funny, Michelle,

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Speaker 3: it's funny.

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Speaker 2: No, And look, the baby says, now, this is what

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Speaker 2: you get a full moon. You've got a bit ten justin.

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Speaker 2: To get into that kind of humor.

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Speaker 1: I need to go through the books.

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Speaker 3: In the body it's funny, yeah, in the book the cartoon,

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Speaker 3: it's funny, yeah, Michelle. Let's make this about my history

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Speaker 3: for a sec. When I was about I think, maybe

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Speaker 3: eleven ten, my mom came home one day. I remember

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Speaker 3: standing in front of the garage of our orange brick

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Speaker 3: home at Niagara Park on the New southwalest Central Coast,

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Speaker 3: top of the driveway, and Mum says, hey, justin quick question,

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Speaker 3: do you know where babies come from? I figured that

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Speaker 3: out by what I'd heard in the playground around about

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Speaker 3: grade three, somewhere between the ages of eight and nine.

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Speaker 3: But of course I lied and said to Mum no,

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Speaker 3: because I thought I might get in trouble if she

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Speaker 3: knew that.

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Speaker 2: I knew right, Mum might think I'm rude. Kids say

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Speaker 2: that to me all the time.

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Speaker 1: Totally that's right, And so I said no.

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Speaker 3: And then she pulled a little book out called where

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Speaker 3: did I Come From? Or Where do I Come From?

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Speaker 1: Or something like that.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it was a classic for decades. And she said, well,

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Speaker 3: I got this book and I thought it might help

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Speaker 3: you to understand things.

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Speaker 1: Would you like to read it with me or would

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Speaker 1: you like to read it on your own?

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Speaker 2: And what did you say?

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Speaker 1: What do you think? I said?

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Speaker 3: Got to be kidding, I'm not reading this with you.

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Speaker 3: I said, of course, I'll read it on my own.

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Speaker 3: I knew I didn't need to read it because I

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Speaker 3: already knew the answers. Nevertheless, I still read it because

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Speaker 3: kids are curious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: Tell me why are we not using where did I

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Speaker 3: come from?

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Speaker 1: Anymore? Why did we need you to write this book?

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Speaker 3: And for what it's worth, I'm a huge fan of

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Speaker 3: what you've done here, But why did you decide it

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Speaker 3: was time for an update after four decades of that

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Speaker 3: one being pretty dominant.

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Speaker 2: There's a few things going on here. This book is

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Speaker 2: for eight to twelve year old so this is a

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Speaker 2: little bit more comprehensive. There's one hundred and fifty six

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Speaker 2: pages here, So this is four kids who are ready

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Speaker 2: for a little bit more of those wrap around topics,

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Speaker 2: who have more extensive questions. I call it that age

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Speaker 2: where they're cognitively ready to be asking questions. So there's

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Speaker 2: a lot more medical information. I find that when I

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Speaker 2: go into schools, boys are just wanting to particularly absorb

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Speaker 2: that medical information about now babies grow, and they just

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Speaker 2: love it. They really really love it. So it's not

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Speaker 2: a picture book like where did I come from?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, with like the mum and the dad hiding under

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Speaker 3: the covers, and you kind of get the sense that

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Speaker 3: the covers are moving a little bit, so there's something

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Speaker 3: going on under there.

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Speaker 2: That's right. The other thing I do is I use

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Speaker 2: medical diagrams, and I think that's really important in this

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Speaker 2: day and age we've got we're talking to our kids

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Speaker 2: a lot more about pornography and the difference between you know,

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Speaker 2: inappropriate maybe images for kids to look at. When I

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Speaker 2: go into schools, I'm very very clear that these are

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Speaker 2: medical diagrams and so you'll see the anatomy and it's

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Speaker 2: a really soft way to explain sexual intercourse to kids.

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Speaker 2: So if you go on my shop page, you'll actually

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Speaker 2: see how I have done that and why I do

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Speaker 2: that in this day and age, So that's another key difference.

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Speaker 2: The other difference that a lot of people don't know

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Speaker 2: is there's really the latest research has changed as well.

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Speaker 2: We used to say that it was the fastest, strongest

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Speaker 2: sperm that reached the shell of that egg and.

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Speaker 4: Cracked into the shell of that egg. That actually sort

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Speaker 4: of won that shell that egg, but it's actually not.

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Speaker 4: The egg gets a final say on which sperm penetrates

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Speaker 4: at shell, and that is new research. And you'll see

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Speaker 4: in the comics that is really reflected.

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Speaker 2: The egg actually says I knew I was popular, but

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Speaker 2: this is slightly overwhelming. So you can see that the

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Speaker 2: egg makes that's good.

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Speaker 4: I really like that, all right, I should have been

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Speaker 4: a little funny and start.

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Speaker 2: I want our kids to say, I'm smart enough not

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Speaker 2: to be fooled. I'm confident enough to make wise decisions,

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Speaker 2: and I'm educated enough to know how wonderful my body is.

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Speaker 2: And our kids just don't need to know. I guess

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Speaker 2: the birds and the bees chat anymore. There's a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of wrap around values that need to come with

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Speaker 2: these conversations. So this book is not just a pitch book.

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Speaker 3: I really want to spend some time on the wrap

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Speaker 3: around values concept. I feel quite the same. I think

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Speaker 3: that when we separate emotional intimacy from physical intimacy, we

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Speaker 3: end up with transactional intimate. Well, it's not even intimate anymore,

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Speaker 3: is it. It becomes a transactional rather than intimate moment. It

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Speaker 3: takes away from the significance and even the sacredness of

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Speaker 3: that intimate moment by simply making it performative recreational. I

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Speaker 3: don't think that we should be separating emotion emotional intimacy

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Speaker 3: from what we might call physical intimacy, and yet that's

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Speaker 3: what we typically do when we have a birds and

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Speaker 3: bees conversation. So let's step into that for a minute.

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Speaker 3: How do you convey that these wrap around ideas and

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Speaker 3: values in a book that's written for eight to twelve

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Speaker 3: year olds to literally pick up and flick through themselves

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Speaker 3: to get this information as much as we want parents

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Speaker 3: to read it with them.

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Speaker 2: Lovely, and this comes from our heart first, doesn't it. It

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Speaker 2: comes from who we are, And it's counter to a

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Speaker 2: lot of the imagery that they're seeing in the movie.

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Speaker 2: So their idea of what sex is is coming from

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Speaker 2: a lot of like quick grabs and flicks that they're

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Speaker 2: even getting in advertising or little snippets they're seeing in

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Speaker 2: the movies. So it is really when you're starting to

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Speaker 2: actually sit next to a kid and actually explain the

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Speaker 2: details of it. A lot of kids are going, I

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Speaker 2: never want that to happen to my body. And one

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Speaker 2: of the biggest things I actually say back to kids is,

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Speaker 2: you know what the best news is, if you don't

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Speaker 2: ever want that to happen to your body, you don't

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Speaker 2: have to because guess what, anything to do with sense

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Speaker 2: is one hundred percent your choice, and you don't have

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Speaker 2: to make that decision now. This is a decision you

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Speaker 2: make when you are much, much, much older, because neither

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Speaker 2: your body or your heart is ready to make that

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Speaker 2: decision right now.

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Speaker 1: I love that.

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Speaker 3: In the interest of preserving anonymity for my children, but

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Speaker 3: still sharing a great story. Just in the last couple

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Speaker 3: of weeks, one of my children, who is definitely in

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Speaker 3: an age group where it's appropriate to be having curiosity

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Speaker 3: and conversations in this in this vein, just said to me,

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Speaker 3: I can't believe. I can't believe that that's what you

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Speaker 3: and mum had to do so that we could be conceived.

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Speaker 3: And she just said, I really like She was honest.

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Speaker 3: She said, I'm curious and I'm interested, but I really

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Speaker 3: really don't like anything about this right now. And I

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Speaker 3: looked at her and I gave her a great big

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Speaker 3: hug and I said, and that's just right for you

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Speaker 3: right now. At some point that will change, but right now,

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Speaker 3: that's where you should be, and let's celebrate that. And

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Speaker 3: you can still ask me anything. We can still talk

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Speaker 3: about anything, because the curiosity is natural and normal and

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Speaker 3: I'd rather you ask me than ask Google.

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Speaker 2: And justin I love that. And when I stand up

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Speaker 2: in front of say, just say grade sixers and they

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Speaker 2: feel awkward and they feel nervous, and you know, they're

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Speaker 2: all like, oh, what she's going to say? I actually

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Speaker 2: really validate that feeling. And I say, I'm so glad

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Speaker 2: you feel like that, because that feeling right there is

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Speaker 2: actually designed to protect you in life. If a stranger

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Speaker 2: was in front of you wanting to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about your body or anything to do with sex, and

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Speaker 2: if it was anyone other than a safe, trusted person

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Speaker 2: who had like I have to tell I tell them

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Speaker 2: that I've had to get signed off by you know,

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Speaker 2: the Australian government to be able to speak about this

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Speaker 2: in schools, and then your parents have had to say

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Speaker 2: that they believe I'm a trusted adult. And then I

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Speaker 2: have to have peaches in this room who are going

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Speaker 2: to listen to every word and they are going to

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Speaker 2: fly down these aisles and grab me by the neck

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Speaker 2: and drag me out if I say one word wrong.

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Speaker 2: You know, I really hype it up because I want

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Speaker 2: them to know that it's a job that adults take

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Speaker 2: very seriously. And the reason why they're nervous is because

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Speaker 2: I'm about to step into a space that's very sacred,

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Speaker 2: and so I hope this book actually transfers that as well.

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Speaker 2: And the whole first chapter is about them becoming the

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Speaker 2: book boss, and the book boss actually gives them a

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Speaker 2: whole list of questions to work through with their trusted adults,

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Speaker 2: which gives them autonomy and choice over how they want

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Speaker 2: to have these conversations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Perfect, Yeah, And I think that to me was actually

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Speaker 2: a really important start point. So I actually say to them,

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Speaker 2: you know, how do you want to read this book?

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Speaker 2: Choose your level of privacy. Do you want to have

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Speaker 2: a look at this book first by yourself or with

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Speaker 2: you like to read it side by side with your

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Speaker 2: trusted adults. How are you most comfortable find the best time?

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Speaker 2: You know, where do you want to actually read the book,

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about how you might handle any big feelings now.

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Speaker 2: So in other words, I meet kids that when they

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Speaker 2: actually do read parts of the book, they might go

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Speaker 2: away and actually do feel a little bit anxious, And

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Speaker 2: I want them to have a plan for that now.

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Speaker 2: So let's agree together. I say here that if you

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Speaker 2: have any awkward feelings that you're not just going to

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Speaker 2: talk to a friend or someone who is at school.

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Speaker 2: Friends are great for playing computer games, but not great

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Speaker 2: for answering life's important questions. So we go through that

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Speaker 2: before we start making it memorable. How about this one?

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Speaker 2: If you're going to have a special grown up conversation,

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Speaker 2: you may as well make it memorable. I personally think

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Speaker 2: hot chocolate and dunking biscuits will be the perfect addition

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Speaker 2: to this book. Or there's a grander idea. How about

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Speaker 2: an increase in your weekly pocket money in it exchange

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Speaker 2: for some talking time. Surely that's not too much to ask,

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Speaker 2: is it? What ideas do you have? So this is

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Speaker 2: stuff that they're actually negotiating with you, justin Colson, And

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Speaker 2: then one last thing, is there anything else on their mind?

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Speaker 2: So this is about ownership? Now that might seem in

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Speaker 2: some ways, surely they don't need to have this big

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Speaker 2: setup before we talk to them about the birds and

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Speaker 2: the bees. Yes, they do, because this is about consent,

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Speaker 2: This is about respect, This is about them having a say,

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Speaker 2: as an eight, nine, ten year old, and then we're

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Speaker 2: going to talk about the qualities of trusted adults, and

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Speaker 2: then we're going to lead into, you know, this soft

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Speaker 2: start where they're going to have such empowerment before we

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Speaker 2: get to some of the more heavy duty topics that

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Speaker 2: we need to.

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Speaker 3: Michelle, when I have a look at what limited data

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Speaker 3: we have, and there's very little data on this that

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Speaker 3: I've been able to find, it seems that a lot

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Speaker 3: of parents are very uncomfortable to talk with their children

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Speaker 3: about this, and many parents would rather not do it

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Speaker 3: at all. There are also some cultural differences, Okay, so

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Speaker 3: people from one culture may be less likely to want

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Speaker 3: to have this conversation than people from other cultures.

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Speaker 1: Like this, this is a real thing. Why is that?

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Speaker 3: I mean we over complicating it. Is it supposed to

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Speaker 3: be something that we're nervous about. Why are so many

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Speaker 3: parents so nervous about talking about intimacy, physical intimacy, emotional intimacy,

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Speaker 3: sexual intercourse, procreation.

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Speaker 2: There's so many things we didn't get it modeled very well.

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of us have had bad sexual

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Speaker 2: experiences as well, and so you know that comes into play.

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Speaker 2: I think we don't want to get it wrong either,

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Speaker 2: and we're scared of not sort of knowing what to

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Speaker 2: say if our kids ask us an awkward question. I

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Speaker 2: think the cultural thing is real. In the book, I

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Speaker 2: talk about different talking styles that parents have, and I

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Speaker 2: say to the kids, it doesn't matter how your family

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Speaker 2: first to talk. Some families talk around the dinner table

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Speaker 2: openly and others talk really privately. As long as your

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Speaker 2: parents are talking, it doesn't matter how they're talking. And

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Speaker 2: I think that's a really important message for parents to

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Speaker 2: take away as well, because I meet a lot of

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Speaker 2: parents in my parent nights that just, you know, they

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Speaker 2: just say, look, we're not the kind of family that

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Speaker 2: would talk openly about this across the dinner table. And

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Speaker 2: I say to parents, you know what, as long as

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Speaker 2: you are talking to your kids, it is okay. I

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Speaker 2: say to parents, just please don't do this. Don't just

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Speaker 2: slap the book on their bed. Run for your life,

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Speaker 2: and say, please come to me if you have any questions.

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Speaker 2: That's normally what we I know, that's what we do.

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Speaker 2: But I think what we're doing is we're putting too

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Speaker 2: much responsibility on our kids shoulders when that really is

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Speaker 2: too much for them, especially in this day and age.

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Speaker 2: What we want to say is this book is an

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Speaker 2: extension of me. So we say, I've read this book.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was pretty funny. You know, Page a

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Speaker 2: hunter in fifty seven was my favorite. That's the mooning

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Speaker 2: page just then. I didn't even get one laugh out

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Speaker 2: of you about But tell me what you think of it.

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Speaker 2: Or you know, there's this talk at school coming up soon,

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Speaker 2: and how about you and I have some chats before

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Speaker 2: that talk comes to your school. You know, there's all

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Speaker 2: sorts of ways to sort of initiate this, but it's

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Speaker 2: just so we're not putting too much on our kids

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Speaker 2: shoulders at a time in their life where they're not ready.

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Speaker 2: You're not the research sense. If they haven't started asking

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Speaker 2: questions by the time they're ten, it's not that they

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Speaker 2: don't have questions, it's that they're too uncomfortable to ask.

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Speaker 2: So it's on us to open the door.

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Speaker 3: Michelle, what I love about the puberty books is, I

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Speaker 3: know how to talk to my kids about this stuff.

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Speaker 3: But the books give me a framework, they give me

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Speaker 3: a structure, they give me a sequence, and they just

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Speaker 3: vibe so much leverage into the conversation. My sense is

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Speaker 3: that where the babies come from allows that same. It

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Speaker 3: changes the dialogue. It gives us the structure, It gives

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Speaker 3: us the direction, it gives us the It gives us

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Speaker 3: the thing to point out and say, hey, well, let's

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Speaker 3: talk about this page, or let's talk about this chapter,

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Speaker 3: let's talk about this theme. It changes the quality, the

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Speaker 3: tenor the experience of the conversation that we have with

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Speaker 3: our children. The other thing that really stands out to

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Speaker 3: me is important here is that, as you said, this

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Speaker 3: is a page, that this is a book with more

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Speaker 3: than one hundred and fifty pages in it, which means

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Speaker 3: that you can't really just sit down and say, all right,

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Speaker 3: well we've had the talk.

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Speaker 2: No, and it's two hundred and fifty justin and kids

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Speaker 2: can come back to this time and time again. Now

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Speaker 2: remember it's broken up with comics. There's really big size

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Speaker 2: font there's a little bit on cyber safety, there's a

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Speaker 2: little bit on sexual consent and body safety. So it's

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Speaker 2: got these wrap around values in it as well. There's

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Speaker 2: a lot about like you know, the three trimesters and

364
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Speaker 2: the baby growing, and it's really cute and fun, but

365
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Speaker 2: it's stuff that kids can dip in and out of.

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Speaker 2: And I think when we just talk to kids and

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Speaker 2: they can't dip in and out of that and refresh

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Speaker 2: their memory and come back to the facts quite as easily.

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Speaker 3: I'm an ambassador for the federal Government's Consent Can't Wait campaign,

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Speaker 3: and you've raised consent a couple of times in this discussion.

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Speaker 3: So let's say that we're talking about eight to Twelve's right,

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Speaker 3: these are kids who they're far too young to be

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Speaker 3: involved in any kind of physical intimacy, but the consent

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Speaker 3: conversation still matters. And the overwhelming data that we see

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Speaker 3: through the federal government's campaign and their research is that

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Speaker 3: parents don't know how to talk about consent generally, but

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Speaker 3: they especially don't know what to say to younger children

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Speaker 3: because they feel like consent is only about physical intimacy.

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Speaker 3: They don't realize that concent is a much broader conversation.

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Speaker 3: So how are you introducing it in the book and

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Speaker 3: what can parents do in that specific zone? Because it

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Speaker 3: is to me the most important conversations we can be

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Speaker 3: having right now.

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Speaker 2: To me, it's a much broader conversation than anything to

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Speaker 2: do with sex, and it's almost it's almost a completely

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Speaker 2: separate conversation that then heats up as our kids get older.

387
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Speaker 2: But even those small things like giving our kids, you know,

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Speaker 2: that real say in you know, making sure they're have

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Speaker 2: the same weather, to keep their bathroom door closed when

390
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,360
Speaker 2: they're having a shower, or it's not okay for their

391
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,400
Speaker 2: little brother to walk in and out of the room

392
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Speaker 2: if they're getting changed. It's simple things like that in

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Speaker 2: our house that sometimes we're like, oh, it's not a

394
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Speaker 2: big deal, but our kids hit eleven and get really

395
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Speaker 2: self conscious and it is a really big deal to them.

396
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Speaker 2: And I think it's just making sure that our kids

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Speaker 2: get that voice and that say and that respect the

398
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,200
Speaker 2: moment that they vocalize it in our homes. I think

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Speaker 2: that's very on a very practical level. When I'm speaking

400
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Speaker 2: to kids in schools, make sure that they are really

401
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 2: clear that sex is not for kids. It's for someone

402
00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:08,160
Speaker 2: that you love, trust, and it's a very private thing

403
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,680
Speaker 2: because it involves your body. And you can imagine how

404
00:20:11,720 --> 00:20:15,920
Speaker 2: serious that is and because they're imagining then their physical body,

405
00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,479
Speaker 2: they're actually feeling the weight of that. And I want

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Speaker 2: them to know that their bodies are important. I want

407
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Speaker 2: them to know that they're valuable. And the moment kids

408
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Speaker 2: are ready to get this information update and they really

409
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Speaker 2: digest the seriousness of that, that's the moment that I

410
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,360
Speaker 2: think they're ready to really understand that, hey, your precious

411
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Speaker 2: body needs to be protected and that there gives you

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Speaker 2: an inroad to have some of those conversations.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love this.

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Speaker 3: One of the one of the consent conversations that I

415
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Speaker 3: lean on pretty heavily is that when my daughters were young,

416
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Speaker 3: obviously six daughters, so I'd take them for a bath

417
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Speaker 3: right like they it's time for bath, and Kylie would say,

418
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Speaker 3: can you go and scrub the kids because I'm doing

419
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Speaker 3: this thing or that thing there.

420
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Speaker 1: We were out numbered, so I would do whatever I

421
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Speaker 1: was asked to do.

422
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Speaker 3: And as a father, as much as some people might

423
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,720
Speaker 3: raise their eyes eyebrows at this, I used to love

424
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Speaker 3: bathing my kids like it was sacred time. I got

425
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Speaker 3: to be with them and there's that skin to skin

426
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Speaker 3: and it's.

427
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Speaker 1: Just really really great.

428
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Speaker 3: So as they got older and I no longer had

429
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Speaker 3: to bath them with the same level of input, I'd

430
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:24,879
Speaker 3: still have to be there to keep them safe. And

431
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Speaker 3: then as they got older again I was just there

432
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Speaker 3: basically to make sure they scrubbed themselves, because sometimes they'd

433
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Speaker 3: sit in the bath for twenty five minutes and never

434
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,000
Speaker 3: touch the soap. But even from a young age, I

435
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,639
Speaker 3: would say to them, Okay, would you like to scrub

436
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Speaker 3: yourself or do you want dad to do it? And

437
00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 3: specifically around their private part to their body, I would say,

438
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Speaker 3: would you like to scrub there or would you like

439
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 3: dad too? And I just sort of highlight to parents

440
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 3: this is consent. You're just checking in is it okay

441
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:53,320
Speaker 3: for me to do this or would you rather? How

442
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 3: do you want this to play out? Now with adolescents

443
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 3: and kids in their twenties, I will get consent before

444
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 3: I share my opinion. So I say, hey, I've got

445
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 3: an idea. Would you be open to hearing it or

446
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,240
Speaker 3: would you rather that I keep this one to myself.

447
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:11,280
Speaker 2: I think that's actually very very good with girls too,

448
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 2: and knowing you too, justin knowing you, I think that's

449
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,159
Speaker 2: a very good idea.

450
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,600
Speaker 3: Because I do like to share my opinions, right that's

451
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 3: what you're saying. I got the feeling that's what you're

452
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,040
Speaker 3: pointing at. But what I find as well is that

453
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 3: once consent is given, there's just a wonderful acceptance. There's

454
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 3: a respect, there's an openness, and it works. Consent is

455
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,159
Speaker 3: about so much more than just what happens between two

456
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,920
Speaker 3: people in a physical a physical way. I'm really glad

457
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:41,920
Speaker 3: that you shared what you did there, Michelle. I have

458
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,240
Speaker 3: a couple of other quick questions for you about what's

459
00:22:44,240 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 3: in the book. There's a really big part of this

460
00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,080
Speaker 3: book that is about identity. Now, before I ask you

461
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: about why. Many years ago, when I put together my

462
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 3: Resilience presentation, the first thing that I've put in there

463
00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:02,360
Speaker 3: was kids need to know who they are. They need

464
00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,400
Speaker 3: to know whose they are, They need to understand their

465
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 3: family story, they need to know their identity. Because the

466
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: more they know who they are, the more resilient they're

467
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 3: able to be, the stronger they can be. They've got

468
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 3: roots that will hold them in place when those fierce

469
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 3: winds blow. Every time I share that, people kind of go, oh, yeah,

470
00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,639
Speaker 3: I would thought resilience was about doing hard things, But

471
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: when you know who you are, that works in the

472
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:27,000
Speaker 3: context of teaching kids about procreation.

473
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: Where does identity fit? Why did you put that there?

474
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 2: Oh, And there's a difference between where babies come from

475
00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,440
Speaker 2: and your family story, and it is and in the

476
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: context of respective people, in the context of consent, in

477
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 2: the context of some of these values we've been talking about.

478
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,520
Speaker 2: Even when a child walks into a classroom of twenty

479
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,200
Speaker 2: seven other kids, they actually have to understand that everyone

480
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 2: has a different story. I have some really dear friends

481
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:59,600
Speaker 2: that have adopted to beautiful boys, and they are at

482
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 2: the age where they were ready to have this conversation

483
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:05,640
Speaker 2: in an information update type of way with their boys,

484
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,399
Speaker 2: and I wanted to make sure this was a book

485
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 2: that those boys. I'm going to cry justin that those

486
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 2: boys would just feel just as loved, just as respected,

487
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 2: and just as valued and honored as any other child

488
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:28,680
Speaker 2: on the planet. And their those boys' mother was too

489
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: ill to take care of them. And you know, they

490
00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 2: were from a third world country, and so much trauma

491
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 2: for a child to come out of. Why would you

492
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 2: ever want a conversation like this to add to their trauma.

493
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,440
Speaker 2: So every page of this book, in my mind, I'm

494
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 2: reading it through the eyes of a child who had

495
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,880
Speaker 2: complex family stories. And you know my working history justin

496
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 2: you know that I've worked with a child's safety, i

497
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 2: worked with refugee families. I've worked with so many diverse

498
00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 2: family situations, and I want to honor every child. And

499
00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,520
Speaker 2: so I guess there's three superstars in the story. There's

500
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 2: a uterus, there's an egg, and there's a sperm. But

501
00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 2: then there's a family story that wraps around that. And

502
00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,680
Speaker 2: the trusted adults in children's lives are the real heroes

503
00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 2: that love and bring the security and safety around a

504
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 2: child's life. And there's fifty questions that kids answer in

505
00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:32,439
Speaker 2: a part of this book, like a journal activity, and

506
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:35,879
Speaker 2: I tell them that these questions are really tricky and

507
00:25:35,920 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: it's unlikely that they're going to get an answer to

508
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 2: every single one of these questions. But for some kids,

509
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:43,399
Speaker 2: they're going to be on like a bit of a

510
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 2: treasure hunt to see how much that they can find

511
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 2: out about who they are with the help of the

512
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: adults in their lives.

513
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,919
Speaker 3: Really appreciate sharing that, Michelle. As as we draw this

514
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 3: conversation to a close, I want to pick up on

515
00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 3: a theme that underscored much of what you just said

516
00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: and that is the role of parent, the need for

517
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 3: parents to provide security and safety and to support their

518
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 3: children as they figure out who they are and they

519
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 3: embark on what will ultimately hopefully be a really fulfilling

520
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 3: and joyful experience with physical and emotional intimacy in the

521
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 3: sexual component of their lives.

522
00:26:22,359 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 1: Can you just talk a little bit.

523
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:27,480
Speaker 3: More about the role of parents and for those children

524
00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,680
Speaker 3: who for various reasons may not have access to parents

525
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,880
Speaker 3: to guide them here the role of carers and other

526
00:26:36,160 --> 00:26:40,359
Speaker 3: significant and important and trusted adults in children's lives. In

527
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 3: terms of how this conversation plays out.

528
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you take values away from a child,

529
00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 2: you take those anchor points away from a child, and

530
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 2: you just knock the legs out of decision making in

531
00:26:54,119 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 2: the most critical times in the years of their life.

532
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:02,439
Speaker 2: And I guess resources like this in some ways are

533
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 2: my I don't know, subconscious way of trying to be

534
00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 2: there in spaces and places of kids' lives where maybe

535
00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: they have half present adults. Maybe in some way they

536
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 2: can read my words and it fills a gap in

537
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 2: their lives that an adult can't feel for whatever reason,

538
00:27:20,640 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 2: in that child's life at that time. I feel like parents,

539
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 2: anythink that you can do to instill and transfer strong

540
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 2: values in these years between say eight to twelve, before

541
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 2: they hit those teenage years are completely irreplaceable. You can't

542
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 2: you can't get those years back once they hit thirteen, fourteen, fifteen.

543
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: At least they have a blueprint which, now, whether you

544
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: like it or not, they're going to make some of

545
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: their own decisions based around and on and up against

546
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 2: them through that that blueprint stays with them forever. And

547
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 2: these years are so open, you know, it's a second

548
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: rapid time of growth in their life as opposed to toddlerhood.

549
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:11,680
Speaker 2: Their brains developing at the speed of lightning between eight

550
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: and twelve, and they're absorbing your values at such a

551
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: quick pace.

552
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 3: One quick observation as you say that, it springs to

553
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 3: mind that I rarely get excited about having a conversation

554
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:29,120
Speaker 3: with my children about these kinds of topics, and yet

555
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 3: the opportunity to share, the opportunity to listen, the opportunity

556
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 3: to impart those values generally turns those conversations into some

557
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: of the most delightfully unexpected positive experiences and positive reactions

558
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 3: that I've ever had.

559
00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 1: With my children. I actually really love these conversations.

560
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: And justin, guess what you could swap this topic up for.

561
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 2: I don't care less, But this is about connecting with

562
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: your kid, right and this is just a tool in

563
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: the vehicle. Can I just share one beautiful thing that

564
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: a mum said to me just a few weeks ago.

565
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 2: She came up to me and she said her daughter

566
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 2: had said had been really nervous about this conversation. And

567
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: after the book and after the conversation, she came to

568
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 2: a mom and she said, Mom, thank you for buying

569
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: me that book, and thank you for talking to me.

570
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: And Mom, can we keep this book? And when I

571
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: have a daughter, I'm going to have this conversation with

572
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 2: my daughter and I'm going to use this book. And

573
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 2: I just went on just loving this. And it's because

574
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:34,840
Speaker 2: the moment mattered. It doesn't matter whether you're talking about

575
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 2: birds and bees or whatever. It's the moment that matters.

576
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 2: And if this matters for your child right now, show

577
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 2: up and do it well and make sure growing up's fun.

578
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: That's what I reckon. Justin, I want parents to know

579
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 2: that there's all sorts of information about assisted reproductive therapy

580
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: as well, because that's such a big part of a

581
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 2: lot of kids journey. That's just the only thing that

582
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: I think we didn't mention, But I think think we

583
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 2: covered so much ground here.

584
00:30:02,480 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 3: I've loved the conversation. The book is called Where do

585
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 3: Babies Come From? And Other Questions? At eight twelve year

586
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 3: odds ask you've sold tens of thousands of copies of

587
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,680
Speaker 3: this book already. I'm a little bit slow to the

588
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 3: party getting you on the podcast, and the book's been

589
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 3: out for a little while now, but we will link

590
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 3: to it in the show notes, and hopefully there'll be

591
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 3: another bunch of a huge bunch of people who are

592
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 3: listening to pod and saying, oh, yeah, I need some

593
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 3: guidance here. This is exactly the book that we need

594
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 3: in our home. We love having it on and on

595
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 3: our bedside table and giving our kids access to it.

596
00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 3: This podcast conversation has prompted me to pull it out

597
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: and go through it, even with a couple of my

598
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: bigger kids, because it's been a while since we've had

599
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 3: some of those conversations, and I just think there's so

600
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 3: much value in the book. Michelle Mitchell, author of Where

601
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 3: Do Babies Come From, as well as both the Girls

602
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 3: and the Guys Guide to Puberty and Tweens.

603
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,600
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for being on a Happy Family podcast.

604
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 2: Thank you, Page one five seven mooning.

605
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:53,880
Speaker 3: Oh go on, I'll go and have a special look

606
00:30:53,880 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 3: at that page as soon as I've finished conversation. I'm

607
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 3: so glad that you got Mileageadam, and that makes me

608
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 3: happy to know that you were happy.

609
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 2: Pretty It's a bit of a slow start. We have

610
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:07,800
Speaker 2: to kind of warm it up now.

611
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:10,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you made up for it. It was really great.

612
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 3: Thanks for being with Mi Michelle, and I'm sure that

613
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:14,560
Speaker 3: this book's going to be so helpful so many families.

614
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: Thanks Justin.

615
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 3: The Happy Families Podcast is produced by Justin Roland from

616
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 3: Bridge Media. We will link to these resources in the

617
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 3: show notes as promised, and if you'd like more information

618
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 3: and more resources generally about making your family happier, Happy

619
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: Families dot com, dot a