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Speaker 1: This is a Will and Woody podcast mini but when

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Speaker 1: You're in a rush. Last week Chris Dawson was convicted

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Speaker 1: of murdering his wife Lyttelk nearly forty years ago, and

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Speaker 1: really the thing that brought all of it to a head, well,

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Speaker 1: well here's the news headline if you missed it, we

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Speaker 1: are breaking news and Sydney school teacher Chris Dawson has

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Speaker 1: just been found guilty of the murder of his wife,

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Speaker 1: Lanette Dawson. Wild story Wards obviously grabbed everybody, everybody's attention

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Speaker 1: all over the country and I'll give you all over

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Speaker 1: the world, and that was because of the power of

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Speaker 1: one of the of a cold case podcast effectively. And

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Speaker 1: this is obviously another podcast in a series of podcasts

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Speaker 1: following the release of Cereal, which was sort of the

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Speaker 1: the og cold case podcast where a journalist grabs a

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Speaker 1: case and digs it up. And I use the word

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Speaker 1: digs up in this instance because the podcast Teachers Pet

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Speaker 1: led to Chris Dawson's backyard being dug up by police

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Speaker 1: strongly through a podcast extraordinary and the fact that he

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Speaker 1: was convicted at the end purely off the back of

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Speaker 1: the work. We have to say of Henley Thomas, who's

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Speaker 1: the investigative journalist who produced the podcast, and he joins

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Speaker 1: us now on Will and Woody.

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Speaker 2: Welcome ever, Hi guys, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Now, Henley, we got a question before we get into

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Speaker 1: the nuts and bolts of this last week. Are you

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Speaker 1: right in front of the courthouse? Lauren Tomarsi runs over

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Speaker 1: to you. She works for Channel nine. She said the

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Speaker 1: name of our show before you took the interview. I'll

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Speaker 1: play the audio.

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Speaker 3: Have listen, Henley.

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Speaker 2: I'm so sorry. I'm live on willam Woodie at the moment,

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Speaker 2: can I ask you?

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Speaker 3: How are you feeling?

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Speaker 2: Drane?

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Speaker 1: All right, so you go on to answer the question there,

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Speaker 1: But quick question, did you take the interview? Because she

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Speaker 1: said she was live on Will.

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Speaker 2: And Boody, I reckon, I did spot. It was a

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Speaker 2: very good strategy.

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Speaker 3: Know Henley, So you were on the spot. It wasn't

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Speaker 3: because you're a fan of our show, mate, I.

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Speaker 2: Am in but that I love your show. I did

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Speaker 2: have to google it.

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Speaker 1: All right, Let's let's talk about let's talk about the case.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about the conviction. How are you feeling about

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Speaker 1: the conviction?

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Speaker 2: Now?

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Speaker 1: Mate, Now that it's over, obviously, so much work went

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Speaker 1: into it. You said, the King has haunted you. What

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Speaker 1: was it about it that let's start with the start

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Speaker 1: that first made you pick it up, and now that

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Speaker 1: you're at the end, whether you've got any closure.

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Speaker 2: Look, what struck me right from the start was just

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Speaker 2: a great sense of injustice. And you know, I don't

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Speaker 2: think you have to be any Einstein to appreciate that

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Speaker 2: the circumstances in this case were really suspicious. You had

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Speaker 2: this incredibly dedicated, doting mother or two little girls, girls

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Speaker 2: that she had struggled to have needed surgery so she

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Speaker 2: could conceive, loved her daughters more than anything, and at

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Speaker 2: the same time as her husband is in an intense

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Speaker 2: relationship with a former high school student with whom he's

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Speaker 2: become completely obsessed. The mum disappears, and then the student

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Speaker 2: or former student is moved into her bed and into

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Speaker 2: the house and becomes a stepmother. Now that those circumstances

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Speaker 2: do tend to raise grave suspicions about one person, and

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Speaker 2: it's not the student, it's the husband. He got rid

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Speaker 2: of his wife, according to her friends, and replaced her

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Speaker 2: almost immediately with a student, and he had taught her

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Speaker 2: at the high school. On the Northern Beaches and introduced

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Speaker 2: her originally as a babysitter. Plus you have all these

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Speaker 2: other layers. You know, he was involved with the Newtown

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Speaker 2: Jets rugby league club with his friend brother Paul. They

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Speaker 2: were first grade footballers. That club at the time was

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Speaker 2: associated with some pretty nastic gangland figures, including a hitman,

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Speaker 2: and even some of the evidence related to a hit

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Speaker 2: man allegedly being approached by Chris Dawson with a view

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Speaker 2: to get rid of his wife. So there are all

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Speaker 2: these elements. But then you had the fact that it

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Speaker 2: hadn't been solved, that for years, it had gone unprosecuted

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Speaker 2: by the New South Wales DPP and the police for

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Speaker 2: the first eight years at least did a really sloppy job.

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Speaker 2: In fact, did nothing at all. They just didn't do

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Speaker 2: any work. So you put all those things together and

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Speaker 2: you have a bundle of circumstances and facts that make

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Speaker 2: for a pretty compelling case of an injustice to Paul

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Speaker 2: Lyn Dawson.

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Speaker 3: With all the research you've done, Headley, do you think

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Speaker 3: at any point we're going to get any level of

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Speaker 3: a confession or more details?

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Speaker 1: Great question words, We're going to go to a song

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Speaker 1: and Headley can ask it on the other side, answer

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Speaker 1: it on the other side. Chris Dawson was convicted of

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Speaker 1: murdering his wife, Lynette Dawson last week and this is

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Speaker 1: something that happened forty years ago, guys. So the cold

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Speaker 1: case reignited by Headley Thomas, who's an investigative investigative journalist

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Speaker 1: for The Australian. He had the podcast Teaches Pet That

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Speaker 1: Teachers Pet you can get wherever you get your podcasts.

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Speaker 1: Is a brand new podcast now which is called The

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Speaker 1: Teacher's Trial, which covered Chris Dawson's trial all the way

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Speaker 1: up to the verdict. It includes episodes that reflect the

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Speaker 1: reactions at the verdict and Headley Thomas joins us right

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Speaker 1: now in Wildwoody.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back, Headley, Hi, and.

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Speaker 3: Headley, I was just saying before the song there. So

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Speaker 3: to this point, Chris Dawson still is denying murdering his

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Speaker 3: wife forty years ago. So we haven't got any confession

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Speaker 3: or details or any information on where the body is. Effectively,

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Speaker 3: do you think that will change?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so, not in the short term anyway,

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Speaker 2: because Chris Dawson would want to play out the appeals

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Speaker 2: process while there's still a chance that he might get

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Speaker 2: out of prison if he has a successful appeal. It

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Speaker 2: would be crazy, you would think if he admitted what

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Speaker 2: he had done and then led authorities to the body.

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Speaker 2: But if that process is completely exhausted, and then he

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Speaker 2: thinks that he might get out of prison a bit

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Speaker 2: sooner with parole if he gave up those sorts of secrets.

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Speaker 2: But then that might work. But Chris is a seventy

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Speaker 2: four year old man. You know, his health isn't great,

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Speaker 2: and you know no one wishes this on him. He

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Speaker 2: may well end up dying in prison if he doesn't

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Speaker 2: get out on appeal.

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Speaker 1: I was ready on the weekend that he's getting a

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Speaker 1: lot of death threats in prison from other prisoners and

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Speaker 1: things like that. Is that true?

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Speaker 2: Well, his lawyer said that, and he would be saying that,

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Speaker 2: you know, on instructions from Chris, you'd hope it's true.

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Speaker 2: I mean, not the hope it's true. He's getting credits,

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Speaker 2: but I'm sure he hasn't just led the court.

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Speaker 1: The other thing I was reading was the fact that

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Speaker 1: they kind of they think they have an idea of

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Speaker 1: where the body is. It's like an enormous expanse of

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Speaker 1: land but it's just going to be too hard in

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Speaker 1: terms of resources to actually lead a search to find

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Speaker 1: it there. Do you believe that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that the area that they're talking about

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Speaker 2: is vast. It's probably you know, I mean, yeah, just

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Speaker 2: such a massive area that it would be impossible to search.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about potentially, you know, hundreds of square kilometers,

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Speaker 2: so you know, it's obviously beyond the capability of New

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Speaker 2: South Wales Police to be able to turn that over.

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Speaker 2: The location of Lynde's body has always been a subject

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Speaker 2: of so much speculation and you know, for some time

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Speaker 2: and even now, I think that Lindawson may be buried

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Speaker 2: very close to her home on the Northern Beaches. It's

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Speaker 2: an area where there's a lot of National park and

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Speaker 2: waterways and areas where you wouldn't really stray off the

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Speaker 2: beaten track far because you'd be worried about snakes and

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Speaker 2: precky thing. So that's possible. It's also possible that on

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Speaker 2: the way to the Central Coast, where Chris Dawson's then

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Speaker 2: a former student, was holidaying with friends from school, you know,

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Speaker 2: like a camping trip, that it may have occurred there.

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Speaker 2: We'll probably never know guys, But yeah, it's a tough one. Also,

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Speaker 2: just like to mention one thing. I really appreciate the

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Speaker 2: the what you said about, you know, reigniting the case

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Speaker 2: and so on. But you know, this case was prosecuted

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Speaker 2: very professionally by a senior prosecutor in Sydney and the

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Speaker 2: police had done an amazing job over several years before

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Speaker 2: and during and after the podcast series to get to

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Speaker 2: that stage. So you know, I don't want you to

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Speaker 2: think that this was some kind of single handed thing.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't have done anything like what they did. But

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Speaker 2: you know, it's I guess one of the great baffling

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Speaker 2: mysteries as to why they took so long, Like the

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Speaker 2: proscuits took so long to prosecute, and it's true that

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Speaker 2: they did prosecute. They did decide to prosecute when the

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Speaker 2: podcast series was in full swing, in fact, almost about

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Speaker 2: to wrap up with it's sixteenth episode.

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Speaker 3: Are you by the way, Headley, are you on the

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Speaker 3: lookout now or is there another cold case that you

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Speaker 3: know about that you're going to move into now or

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Speaker 3: do you need a bit of time off?

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Speaker 2: Oh mate, we are really busy with the teacher's trial

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Speaker 2: and we're re releasing The Teacher's Pet podcast through the

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Speaker 2: Australians app. And the reason we're doing that now is

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Speaker 2: because as a result of the trial and him being well,

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Speaker 2: as a result of him in charge three and a

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Speaker 2: half years ago and then leading up to a trial,

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Speaker 2: we decided that we should take down that podcast series,

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Speaker 2: The Teacher's Pet, so that he could get a fair trial.

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Speaker 2: And now that he's had his fair trial and he's

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Speaker 2: been convicted of murder, we're putting it back up. So

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Speaker 2: a lot of people hadn't listened to it since then,

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Speaker 2: a lot of people weren't able to listen to it

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Speaker 2: at all, and so I'm having to do a fair

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Speaker 2: bit of re editing to ensure that goes smoothly. Plus

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Speaker 2: we've got episodes of The Teacher's Trial, which has been

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Speaker 2: incredibly widely downloaded. You know, we're getting interest all over

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Speaker 2: the world from people who have become quite merited to

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Speaker 2: the case, and it's really touched people. In's story and

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Speaker 2: how she lived her life and loved her family and

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Speaker 2: her husband and her children and then disappeared and was

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Speaker 2: written off has really touched many.

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Speaker 1: We've been in particular, I was going to ask you

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Speaker 1: that actually, Headley, obviously you've got this strange relationship with

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Speaker 1: Lynette in terms of, you know, you're sort of the

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Speaker 1: night and shining armor that she needed previously to sort

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Speaker 1: of see a circumstance and you know, like help her effectively.

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Speaker 1: How do you how does all the tensions on Chris

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Speaker 1: does Chris make?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: Is Chris going to confess? And all this sort of stuff?

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Speaker 1: But what's your relationship like with Lynette? Like, you know,

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Speaker 1: when Chris was convicted, did you have some sense of

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Speaker 1: a good you know, like a goodbye ceremony? Like what

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Speaker 1: sort of closure did you have with her?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, I've I reckon that I would have been

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Speaker 2: fifteen when Lynette Dawson disappeared, and you know, as a

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Speaker 2: fifteen year old, I guess I could relate to you know,

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Speaker 2: the period, but not at her level. She was thirty two,

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Speaker 2: thirty three. I have watched a lot of video of her, though,

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Speaker 2: and I've seen how she had so much poise and grace,

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Speaker 2: and I've heard from many of her friends and family

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Speaker 2: members about her inherent goodness and love for her family

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Speaker 2: and her thoughtfulness and just watching her on the screen

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Speaker 2: and listening to her voice and thinking about what she

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Speaker 2: went through and the troubles that she experienced before she

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Speaker 2: was murdered. Yeah, I have felt something of a connection

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Speaker 2: to her, and I really wanted to try to clear

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Speaker 2: her name because she was effectively smeared as a woman

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Speaker 2: who didn't love her kids, who abandoned her children and

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Speaker 2: ran away from home and somehow eaked out an existence

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Speaker 2: without ever contacting anyone in her old life again, which

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Speaker 2: was so clearly a nonsense, which to the judge saw through.

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Speaker 2: But it was very I think moving for all of

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Speaker 2: us when we finally saw that justice delivered in the

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Speaker 2: courtroom last week, and it was as if Lynn was

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Speaker 2: finally after forty years, having something go away.

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Speaker 1: That's huge. Well, if you want to hear more about

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Speaker 1: that or including what happened in the courtroom there last week,

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Speaker 1: head along to the Teacher's Trial brand new podcast by

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Speaker 1: Headley Thomas. Obviously you put together Teacher's Pet Headley, thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, mate, It's it's been

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Speaker 1: a pleasure. Congratulations and all your working and congratulations on

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Speaker 1: the conviction as well. As you said, it must feel

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Speaker 1: good not just for you, but also has something go

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Speaker 1: Lyarnette's way. After all this time. It's awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I really appreciate your time and I've enjoyed the talk.

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Speaker 3: Great.

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Speaker 1: The next time when someone says it's Will and Wood

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Speaker 1: are you'll you'll definitely do the chat.

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Speaker 3: Probably or maybe you won't this time.

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Speaker 2: You know more of the boys on the Full Show podcast.

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Speaker 3: You know you want to