Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week Neby.
Speaker 2: Hi, guys, welcome back to TV Reload. I want to
Speaker 2: thank you for clicking and downloading on today's episode with
Speaker 2: Beth Jones, who is the Mushroom Studio's chief operating officer,
Speaker 2: along with the producer of Ego, The Michael Giddinsky Story,
Speaker 2: the feature documentary that we are talking about today follows
Speaker 2: the wild ride of Michael Gidinsky over five decades as
Speaker 2: he forged his own Maverick path. Consumed by his ambition
Speaker 2: and enduring passion for Australian music. Michael Gidinsky was a
Speaker 2: music man and a natural born hustler. He repeatedly risked
Speaker 2: everything for his one obsession, being Australian music. This documentary
Speaker 2: film will be available on Channel seven on the ninth
Speaker 2: of April and you have to check it out. It
Speaker 2: is helmed by the feature film, documentary and music video
Speaker 2: director Paul Goldman and produced by my guest today, Beth Jones.
Speaker 2: The film features personal accounts from Giddinsky himself, exclusive interviews
Speaker 2: with some of the world's most influential artists, rare archival
Speaker 2: footage and electrifying soundtrack that I just say, get a
Speaker 2: beer and sit back and pretend that Michael's watching it
Speaker 2: with you. There are some fabulous stories shared today from
Speaker 2: Beth's relationship with Michael Giddinsky and the evolution of this
Speaker 2: documentary and how it came together. Beth talks about how
Speaker 2: the artists in Michael's story were able to get together
Speaker 2: and share their stories to be a part of this
Speaker 2: We will unpack what Mushroom Studios looks like these days
Speaker 2: and have a legacy of Michael Gidinsky still continues in
Speaker 2: their day to day working life. Plus, I will find
Speaker 2: out from Beth what she learned about making this documentary
Speaker 2: and what she hopes audiences will get from seeing this film.
Speaker 2: There's actually so much to unpack with Beth, and she
Speaker 2: was so delightful in the way in which she shared
Speaker 2: her stories.
Speaker 1: So sit back and relax as.
Speaker 2: We dive just that little bit deeper into the world
Speaker 2: of ego the Michael Giddinsky story.
Speaker 3: Hi Bet, Hello Ben, Hi, hi Jin, how are you.
Speaker 2: I'm very well. I'm very excited to be talking to you.
Speaker 2: It's funny. I read an article about you a few
Speaker 2: years ago. I think it was when you were going
Speaker 2: from maybe match box back to mushroom, and my brain
Speaker 2: saved you in my memory as Bethany Jones, like Bridget Jones.
Speaker 3: Do you know what though I once got a Tellstonville
Speaker 3: addressed to Bridget Jones, you.
Speaker 4: Did not I did.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, did you hear that song in the
Speaker 2: background playing all by myself?
Speaker 4: I totally did. I love that film film.
Speaker 1: It's so good. It's so good it stands up still.
Speaker 2: You can still watch that film and relate even though
Speaker 2: they don't have mobile phones, well, not like we do now.
Speaker 3: No, I think you have to chase after you, you know,
Speaker 3: your men running down the street the snow. You couldn't
Speaker 3: just call them.
Speaker 2: That's how I live my life. That's how I'm always
Speaker 2: chasing after my partner when he leaves the house. I
Speaker 2: want to congratulate you on this documentary because you must
Speaker 2: be so proud of this film.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: I think what's been really exciting is just to see
Speaker 3: how it's resonated with people.
Speaker 4: You know, you always make things hoping.
Speaker 3: That it hits the audience, but you never quite know
Speaker 3: until it's released. So yeah, when you start to get
Speaker 3: the feedback, it's yeah, it's been it's been quite incredible.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: We had obviously such great feedback from the cinema release,
Speaker 3: and then it's been unconscious for the last couple of months,
Speaker 3: and the amount of people that have seen it as
Speaker 3: they've been traveling and dropped us a note or we're
Speaker 3: for advis someone else. It's been really exciting because I think,
Speaker 3: you know, you make it to celebrate the person you're
Speaker 3: making the documentary about, So I kind of feel really
Speaker 3: happy that Michael I think would be really proud of it.
Speaker 1: He would.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a real hero's journey story, you know,
Speaker 2: for people that don't even know that much about him,
Speaker 2: to people that are super fan of you know, there's
Speaker 2: something in this for everyone. It's very inspiring. I think
Speaker 2: it's heartwarming in a way as well, and it does
Speaker 2: what I think documentaries need to do and teaches you
Speaker 2: about the subject matter about something you don't know about them.
Speaker 2: And even if you are a super fan of Michael,
Speaker 2: there's still so much to learn.
Speaker 3: That's it like, particularly for someone I can't really say
Speaker 3: it was behind the scenes because Michael loved the limelight,
Speaker 3: but you know, for someone who was so instrumental in
Speaker 3: so many.
Speaker 4: Other artists' careers.
Speaker 3: The feedback we've also received is that people didn't realize
Speaker 3: how many artists he was behind and how that's kind
Speaker 3: of formed the soundtrack to the nation. I think that's
Speaker 3: like a real surprising factor for people when they start
Speaker 3: to just hear all the different artists and all the
Speaker 3: different tracks that are featuring in the doco.
Speaker 1: Yeah, becomes alive.
Speaker 2: I mean, you are watching this documentary and for me,
Speaker 2: I can smell the scaffolding, the pubs. I can smell
Speaker 2: all of that about five minutes into the movie, Like
Speaker 2: it's so visceral.
Speaker 3: And I think of the th real credit to our
Speaker 3: editor Sarah Edwards. So Sarah also cut the Mark Hartley's
Speaker 3: Not Quite Hollywood documentary, and it was kind of one
Speaker 3: of the reasons why we were really attracted to Sarah
Speaker 3: to cut this, because we knew that this needed a
Speaker 3: high pace, high energy, like we really had to try
Speaker 3: to capture my but also the times and as you
Speaker 3: kind of say, you know those sweaty, sticky carpet kind
Speaker 3: of pubs of the eighties right into them, the you know,
Speaker 3: the more kind of big stadium tours of the edge
Speaker 3: shearings and things like that, and Sarah's just got such
Speaker 3: an incredible way to cut, to really make you feel
Speaker 3: that energy and that you know.
Speaker 4: She we had very.
Speaker 3: Close people to Michael come back and just say to
Speaker 3: us how.
Speaker 4: We'd really captured his spirit.
Speaker 3: I can't speak highly enough of Sarah. She's just so incredible.
Speaker 2: I think the backstory with his family and his parents
Speaker 2: was also stuff that I didn't necessarily know. Even he
Speaker 2: struggles along the way, is captured really well. Because we
Speaker 2: always think that stories happen in a straight line, you know,
Speaker 2: but that's not really the case. And it's not his
Speaker 2: story either, because he certainly had these tremendous highs and
Speaker 2: tremendous loads at times, but they're still believed in these artists,
Speaker 2: you know, and and enough even at low points to
Speaker 2: build them up to be incredible stars.
Speaker 3: And yeah, it was really you know. So I thought
Speaker 3: that I knew Michael's story before I kind of headed
Speaker 3: into this, but I learned so much. And I think
Speaker 3: the real moment where I started to understand the highs
Speaker 3: and lows perhaps was the when he sold Mushroom Yeah
Speaker 3: to Murdock. And it was a thing that I suppose
Speaker 3: from the outside, you're like, oh, how amazing.
Speaker 4: You know, that's an incredible feat.
Speaker 3: To be able to spell the company for you know,
Speaker 3: the rumor amount that he had, but you didn't quite
Speaker 3: realize until we're doing this documentary, until people were speaking
Speaker 3: quite candidly, like his wife Sue and Philip Jacobson, his
Speaker 3: business partner, how much of an impact that had on him. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that was a real surprising moment.
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 2: I mean, you've I want to go back into you
Speaker 2: just a little bit as well, because I mean you've
Speaker 2: got a long history with Mushroom yourself, and like a
Speaker 2: lot of people, they've come and gone with this company
Speaker 2: and they come back again. What is it about this
Speaker 2: company that draws you well, that drew you back?
Speaker 4: Something special about it? Actually?
Speaker 3: And Michael he was Yeah, you know obviously you knew Michael,
Speaker 3: and he just had this infectious nature that somehow just
Speaker 3: threw you in. And I think it was you kind
Speaker 3: of get swept up in the passion and the energy
Speaker 3: and the vision and you can kind of see what's possible.
Speaker 3: The amazing thing about Michael for me was that he
Speaker 3: would have you back. You know, you could kind of
Speaker 3: go oh, kind of wanting to take a bit of
Speaker 3: a risk, here and he would have you back and
Speaker 3: it didn't really matter if it worked or it didn't
Speaker 3: quite work. You know, it'd just be like, Okay, get up,
Speaker 3: go again. And having that kind of energy and that
Speaker 3: belief behind you is a really powerful thing and the
Speaker 3: people that work here. I think it's so hilariously because
Speaker 3: I heard it so much during the documentary and I
Speaker 3: was like, Oh, it's like the Mushroom family kind of thing,
Speaker 3: and you're like, oh yeah. And I think there's a
Speaker 3: great line in the documentary from Paul Kelly about it,
Speaker 3: but it kind of feels like a bit of a cliche,
Speaker 3: but it's also quite true that you know, it's a
Speaker 3: very supportive of a supportive environment to work in, and
Speaker 3: I think there's also a lot of a lot of
Speaker 3: freedom to try because I think the people that come
Speaker 3: here and work at Mushrooms are also really passionate themselves
Speaker 3: about music and that entertainment, about culture, about really wanting
Speaker 3: to take Australian artists, you know, to the world as well,
Speaker 3: and that's why we all do what we do. So
Speaker 3: I think, you know, Michael and Matt have really created
Speaker 3: an environment where you do feel really supported. Yeah, you
Speaker 3: can have ambition, you know, and it's great to have
Speaker 3: that ambition. So yeah, it's a pretty great company, I think.
Speaker 4: To work for.
Speaker 2: What does the power of the late Michael Goitinski look like,
Speaker 2: you know, only a few years after he's passing, working
Speaker 2: there day to.
Speaker 3: Day it feels in a way like, obviously we miss Michael,
Speaker 3: you know, a lot, but Matt's also just been amazing
Speaker 3: to pick up and also run, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: There's still the same drive and the same ambition and things.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I feel like in a way things have changed,
Speaker 3: but they haven't changed, if that may make sense.
Speaker 4: It does, so yeah, day to.
Speaker 3: Day, I think it's always a really great thing. Like
Speaker 3: there's a lot of people in the mushroom that work
Speaker 3: really really hard. But day to day you also just
Speaker 3: remember how privileged you are to be doing what you're doing.
Speaker 3: The really interesting thing is having that kind of independence
Speaker 3: behind you. I mean, you know, Michael like set up
Speaker 3: this company, always is his own money, putting his own
Speaker 3: kind of time and energy into it, And I think
Speaker 3: that's always something to really remember that as an independent company,
Speaker 3: we don't have shareholders, you know, we don't have those
Speaker 3: kind of overseas money coming in, but it does mean
Speaker 3: that you can be a lot more agile, you can
Speaker 3: take a lot of more risks and yeah, really know
Speaker 3: what's happening on the ground and see where different trends
Speaker 3: are happening. And that was one of the Michaels things
Speaker 3: that he always loved saying about be a leader, not
Speaker 3: or follower. You know, you don't really know what frend
Speaker 3: is going to come. You've kind of got to predict
Speaker 3: it or make it happen, you know. And there's a
Speaker 3: really kind of a low key lessons that when looking
Speaker 3: back over those fifty years of Michael's career that still
Speaker 3: apply to you know, and you can really pull out
Speaker 3: from the documentary.
Speaker 1: I think absolutely.
Speaker 2: I mean when you're watching this documentary, I mean you
Speaker 2: just keep being reminded of some of his methodology and
Speaker 2: that just has you know, passed around the group because
Speaker 2: any interaction I've ever had, I've always found that there's
Speaker 2: some commonality amongst passion and amongst entertainment and art and culture,
Speaker 2: which I think is really important, especially in your industry.
Speaker 2: I love asking people about their personal stories about Michael
Speaker 2: because people who knew him have great stories. What's the
Speaker 2: story you know with you and Michael. That sums up
Speaker 2: the relationship that you had with him, something that we
Speaker 2: can keep on the podcast.
Speaker 3: I have asked so many people that question, and then yeah,
Speaker 3: when I get asked, I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 4: Behind the scenes, he was super loyal.
Speaker 3: He was incredibly supportive of if you're going through hard times,
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, take some time off or you know,
Speaker 3: do this.
Speaker 4: And I know one of the.
Speaker 3: Things that actually didn't make the film was a story
Speaker 3: from Michael's driver in fact, and Jeff, his driver's name is.
Speaker 3: He told us like how often people would turn up
Speaker 3: to Michael's office and they would either need money for
Speaker 3: a funeral or someone was going through a divorce and things.
Speaker 3: And you know, Jeff had known that these people always
Speaker 3: hadn't spoken very highly of Michael, but yet they think
Speaker 3: went up to his office asking for money and Michael,
Speaker 3: would you know, there we go hands over give it
Speaker 3: to them, even though I knew, you know, And I
Speaker 3: think it was all kind of behind the scenes stuff
Speaker 3: that I think was a real testament to the man.
Speaker 2: It's so funny because my dad worked with him in
Speaker 2: the nineties, I guess, so my dad worked on AW
Speaker 2: So we've done some advertising campaigns with him, and I
Speaker 2: worked with Mary at Frontier touring a couple of times.
Speaker 2: I even have a certificate for working on sound relief.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, how amazing.
Speaker 2: Which I have framed in my house, which is quite amazing.
Speaker 2: That Mary had called me when I was working in
Speaker 2: radio sales and doing sales and she wanted some you know,
Speaker 2: some money to be put into advertising to get sound
Speaker 2: relief out there. And so I worked with Mary and
Speaker 2: that was my story, and I got a chance to
Speaker 2: you know, speak to Michael during that time, and I
Speaker 2: remember how proud and how much energy was going into
Speaker 2: sound relief. But I just that was my experience. And
Speaker 2: that's why when I ask people about their story, it
Speaker 2: comes alive for me, because that part of my life
Speaker 2: was really important and I felt included or ordained into
Speaker 2: the family in some weird way that I felt like
Speaker 2: I was able to help and achieve.
Speaker 3: I mean, and what an incredible thing to be part of,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean that sound relief would have just
Speaker 3: you know, it's kind of obviously.
Speaker 4: Again in the documentary, Michael talks.
Speaker 3: About sound Relief and saying how it was one of
Speaker 3: his most proud moments.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my tears realized when that was happening.
Speaker 3: I was like, so you would have known then, you
Speaker 3: know that that kind of energy and how exciting. And
Speaker 3: I remember we were doing the Molly Meldrum mini series
Speaker 3: for ten seven. This is a good story about Michael,
Speaker 3: how he was so passionate about promoting you know, he
Speaker 3: was just a natural born promoters of people. That's a
Speaker 3: promoter of you know, events. And we had this call
Speaker 3: when it was being promoted on Channel seven and with
Speaker 3: a call from Channel seven publicist and she's like, I'm
Speaker 3: under the table and your boss is in here, and
Speaker 3: he's telling everyone who's got to promote more? They've got
Speaker 3: to promote more?
Speaker 1: Can you get?
Speaker 3: And I could just have a picture of Michael goings
Speaker 3: with the Channel seven officers, you know, telling them that
Speaker 3: they got too more to promote these minisaries.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know this particular film, it started out as
Speaker 2: a three part documentary, which I don't know if people
Speaker 2: know before him lasting and that's why you do have
Speaker 2: so much pieces to camera.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, actually anything before he died, that's all archives.
Speaker 3: So the idea had started before he passed, and he
Speaker 3: had was having discussions with Paul Goldman, who he had
Speaker 3: known since nineteen seventy nine because Paul has directed over
Speaker 3: two hundred music videos, and they met when Paul turned
Speaker 3: up with The Boys next Door Shiver's music video clip
Speaker 3: Wow and Yes. So he'd had conversations with Paul and
Speaker 3: they had planned to do a big, you know, kind
Speaker 3: of four day interview with Michael, and then COVID happened
Speaker 3: and they couldn't actually arrange that interview, and then when
Speaker 3: things are starting to open up, Michael passed and so
Speaker 3: they never got that opportunity.
Speaker 4: And Yeah, then.
Speaker 3: I rejoined Mushroom and we spoke about it because I
Speaker 3: think in the three part doco was going to be
Speaker 3: the focus on that Mushroom group, so all the different
Speaker 3: businesses and things, and we thought that it was maybe
Speaker 3: a better opportunity to do it as Michael's story as
Speaker 3: a feature film, because you know, I'd like to say
Speaker 3: that Michael was a big personality. You needed a big
Speaker 3: screen because we didn't have all those that interview with Michael.
Speaker 3: We had to go through over fifty years of archive
Speaker 3: and cut together the story from.
Speaker 4: All the archive.
Speaker 3: And one of the things that was important to us
Speaker 3: is to allow Michael to tell his own story in
Speaker 3: his own voice. So that was an incredible challenge for
Speaker 3: us just in terms of getting archives to sync up
Speaker 3: and tell the story, but then also because Michael's voice.
Speaker 4: Changed so much over the years.
Speaker 3: You can see in the early archive he's you know,
Speaker 3: very well spoken and very clear, and then as he
Speaker 3: gets older, everyone has their Giddinski impersonation. But luckily, you know,
Speaker 3: he wasn't shy of the media, and so there was
Speaker 3: a lot of radio interviews, There was a lot of
Speaker 3: television interviews that we had.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and the piece.
Speaker 3: Itself has got eight hundred and fifty pieces of archive
Speaker 3: in it that's all signed together to tell the story.
Speaker 3: But it is still we kept reflecting on what a
Speaker 3: shame it was that we couldn't actually get those key interviews.
Speaker 2: It still feels like you do though, like it still
Speaker 2: feels quiet. The tapestry of all of this is put
Speaker 2: together so well from the storytelling perspective, and having him
Speaker 2: being able to layer opinions at times is brought in
Speaker 2: really clever, clever, and that jigsaw being put together must
Speaker 2: have taken a lot of time. How long does the
Speaker 2: documentary like this take to put together from go to
Speaker 2: WO from when you started on it to getting it
Speaker 2: on screen.
Speaker 3: This one was actually relatively fast in a way.
Speaker 4: I have to say. I think we came on board.
Speaker 3: Maybe in October two thousand and twenty War one, I
Speaker 3: think actually like that, and we really didn't start production
Speaker 3: until I think it was July thereabouts in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: and obviously then we released it in August twenty three.
Speaker 3: So it was very fast paced, and I think we
Speaker 3: spent about twenty weeks or so in the edit because
Speaker 3: that was obviously where so much of the work was done.
Speaker 3: That that said, we also had Page McGinley, who's archive
Speaker 3: producer and also archive producer, and since the idea had
Speaker 3: started to be discussed with Michael and Paul, she had
Speaker 3: started to collect a whole lot of archives, so we
Speaker 3: have a whole lot of that work already done, which
Speaker 3: became so essential to the film. That was an extraordinary
Speaker 3: amount of archive, and it wasn't just about Michael, but
Speaker 3: it was all about different artists and of course you
Speaker 3: know finding all that kind of archive as well, so
Speaker 3: it was very concentrate.
Speaker 2: How long did it take to find the right people,
Speaker 2: because there are some key people that you'd need to
Speaker 2: have in this story in terms of interview, Yeah, like
Speaker 2: even just the artist, but also family.
Speaker 3: I think we were really lucky because Michael had this
Speaker 3: ability to forge such personal relationships with people that when
Speaker 3: we went out to ask people to be interviewed, everyone
Speaker 3: made time for us.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: We remember we had to organize to catch Billy Joel
Speaker 3: when he's playing I think it was I can't remember
Speaker 3: which stadium in the US, but he just was in
Speaker 3: between sound checks or something and he came into the
Speaker 3: interview for us sting was i know, just about to
Speaker 3: go on stage before he did the interview. Yeah, So
Speaker 3: we were just incredibly lucky that a lot of these artists,
Speaker 3: obviously you know, had such a personal relationship with Michael
Speaker 3: that than any issue at all in getting them, which
Speaker 3: you know is a producer's dream you've been.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so everyone would have been wanting to be a
Speaker 2: part of it as well. It's hard to sort of
Speaker 2: lock people down and get them to do these sorts
Speaker 2: of things, but I guess people must have been you know,
Speaker 2: it would have been like a gravitational pull to give
Speaker 2: back to Michael like this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the issue we really had is who to
Speaker 3: interview because there were so many people who were so
Speaker 3: important in his life. But obviously, you know, if you're
Speaker 3: covering fifty years in a doco, you've got about two
Speaker 3: minutes a year. We really had a hard time trying
Speaker 3: to establish who could tell multiple stories or multiple facets, because, yeah,
Speaker 3: had we done a three part I know that there
Speaker 3: would be in a lot more people that we would
Speaker 3: have loved to interview for it as well.
Speaker 2: So did you have set questions for them or did
Speaker 2: you just let the role? Did you let them speak,
Speaker 2: because like it would be with documentaries, sometimes you know
Speaker 2: the story that you're putting together, so you've got certain
Speaker 2: questions to try and on earth things. Or were you
Speaker 2: just using the time to let them talk about their
Speaker 2: story and then putting it together afterwards.
Speaker 3: Both Actually, like we never really had like a set
Speaker 3: question that got sent to them ahead.
Speaker 4: We'd kind of say, look.
Speaker 3: These are the areas that we're trying to cover, particularly
Speaker 3: because we knew certain people had certain threads story threads,
Speaker 3: so we needed them to maybe address that in terms
Speaker 3: of structure of the documentary. For example, like the early
Speaker 3: days of touring. You know, Sting was one of the
Speaker 3: earliest bands that they brought out, so we needed him to,
Speaker 3: you know, talk about that, and so we'd kind of
Speaker 3: give broad broad ideas and prompts more sorry than specific questions,
Speaker 3: and then when we got into the interview itself, Paul
Speaker 3: would have some prepared questions and around those themes. But oftentimes, yeah,
Speaker 3: we did just let them are so talk because for
Speaker 3: many people this was the first time they'd spoken publicly
Speaker 3: after Michael had died, So it was quite emotional for
Speaker 3: I'd say everyone involved, And yeah, a lot of reflection
Speaker 3: I think on their lives because there were a lot
Speaker 3: of people we interviewed that had very long relationships with.
Speaker 2: Michael, of course, and I mean, you would have to
Speaker 2: have the sensitivity. For me, I found watching it some
Speaker 2: of the more emotional moments was watching Sue talking and
Speaker 2: putting her contribution forward. Every time she came on, I
Speaker 2: felt like a wave of emotion coming over me. Was
Speaker 2: that really sensitive to be able to get her in
Speaker 2: there to talk about him like that? And did she
Speaker 2: walk away saying it was cathartic? Or how did she
Speaker 2: feel about being in the chair.
Speaker 1: And yeah about this?
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you know, Sue was always for us a
Speaker 3: really important voice in this documentary. You know, she herself
Speaker 3: had quite they started out in three aw in radio,
Speaker 3: and so has been such a pivotal part of Michael's
Speaker 3: success as well.
Speaker 4: He would always.
Speaker 3: Say that too, you know, but I think Sue, unlike Michael,
Speaker 3: you know, was Michael would be quite happy to be
Speaker 3: you know, front and center, and so I think for
Speaker 3: Sue I could imagine that it would have been. You know,
Speaker 3: it's quite difficult in a way coming out and speaking
Speaker 3: publicly about that. But she was incredible and really generous
Speaker 3: and open to us in terms of sharing quite personal
Speaker 3: things and as I said, like you know, learning a
Speaker 3: lot people might not be aware of, like that kind
Speaker 3: of Murdoch, the effect of the Murdock sale and giving
Speaker 3: us the background as to Michael's early days. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: it was incredibly generous of her. But as I said,
Speaker 3: she was such an important voice because of how much
Speaker 3: this is also her story. The creation of mushrooms is
Speaker 3: so much her story as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think she really was amused.
Speaker 2: But like, it's interesting when you talk about people who
Speaker 2: have stories like this, who have achieved something like this,
Speaker 2: you do normally hear that there is someone behind them
Speaker 2: in a way that's kind of like a muse or
Speaker 2: someone of a champion that champions them on and she
Speaker 2: certainly had done that. I mean, I did love the
Speaker 2: documentary as well, where people were saying she kind of
Speaker 2: didn't look like the type of person that would be
Speaker 2: with Michael. You know, I loved that because I'd heard
Speaker 2: that story myself. Sue in her own right has the
Speaker 2: same presence as a rock star in a way. You know,
Speaker 2: he always has had that presence. It was great that
Speaker 2: you're able to capture that.
Speaker 3: Jimmy Barnes, you know, was obviously had such a deep
Speaker 3: personal relationship. I mean, the whole Barnes family and the
Speaker 3: Gininski family very close, and Jimmy was just incredibly generous
Speaker 3: and did speak about that aspect of being creative and
Speaker 3: you know, but you do and he's obviously come up
Speaker 3: with working class boy and we can see, you know,
Speaker 3: all the things that Jimmy was dealing with, and he
Speaker 3: also spoke about how Michael was there to support him
Speaker 3: through tough times. And you know, on the flip side,
Speaker 3: I know that the Barnes have been incredibly supportive with
Speaker 3: Beginningski and him and Jimmy were like brothers. You'd almost say,
Speaker 3: you know, so incredible amount of support that went both ways,
Speaker 3: And yeah, I think it's it's true, isn't it. Like
Speaker 3: you do need to have really good people around you
Speaker 3: in the industry to help you through the highs and
Speaker 3: lows of it, but.
Speaker 2: Then having knowledge and then know how to pick these people.
Speaker 2: I also love that in the documentary where you know,
Speaker 2: they talked about picking an artist is a little bit
Speaker 2: like putting on a bet. But Michael had a really
Speaker 2: good understanding of people, like he was listening.
Speaker 1: He was a good com he did.
Speaker 2: He did talk a lot, but he also listened a lot,
Speaker 2: and that's really key to working out whether someone can
Speaker 2: do what you want them to do and whether you
Speaker 2: put your money.
Speaker 4: On them and read.
Speaker 3: Simon said it didn't actually make the cut, but he
Speaker 3: had this fantastic line about Michael didn't read books, but
Speaker 3: he could read people amazing. Yeah, I love that because
Speaker 3: I was like, very very true, you know. And he
Speaker 3: also had incredible staff around him that could, you know,
Speaker 3: And I think that was the Amanda Pelman the kind
Speaker 3: of an Ogue story where you know, he would he
Speaker 3: would if someone saw something in an artist, they would
Speaker 3: he would back them. So he always had a lot
Speaker 3: of trust to me staff to then back the artists
Speaker 3: as well, So he definitely was a people person.
Speaker 2: I'd say, Michael, would you ever think about using the
Speaker 2: footage that you have? I mean that sounds to me
Speaker 2: like there's an extended cut. Would you think about putting
Speaker 2: that on free to wehear like have a longer version
Speaker 2: of it? Or are you quite happy with the succinct
Speaker 2: version that you've put together?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Look, I think there's an incredible, bigger, broader mushroom story.
Speaker 3: I mean lots of people and unfortunately we didn't get
Speaker 3: covered in the documentary itself, but a lot of people
Speaker 3: are surprised to know that Michael was a producer on Chopper.
Speaker 3: For example, that he backed a lot of Australian.
Speaker 2: Films poster in his office of Chopper. That's a real
Speaker 2: award thing to have in the background, because I remember
Speaker 2: when he was making Chopper. This is before under Belly,
Speaker 2: It's before any of that, and you know, people thought
Speaker 2: he was mad and people were shocked to see his
Speaker 2: name attached to this movie when it came out, But
Speaker 2: then it was it was the making of Eric Banner,
Speaker 2: it was the making of the Underbelly and going ahead
Speaker 2: with Underbelly. They kept saying, you know, this is Chopper
Speaker 2: as a TV series, and Giddinsky believed that, you know,
Speaker 2: I remember crazy reading a story about you know, Buffy
Speaker 2: the Vampire Slayer. The producer was Dolly Parton. Wow, it's
Speaker 2: a bonkers That is something that lives on though. You
Speaker 2: see Michael Gitinsky's name on that film, and that film
Speaker 2: again still stacks up and is brilliant to watch. And
Speaker 2: he was instrumental he made that.
Speaker 3: That's right, And you know, lots of people were kind
Speaker 3: of you know, a day on the Green and you know,
Speaker 3: all these other kind of aspects of the business. So yeah,
Speaker 3: there is definitely a big broader story to tell.
Speaker 2: Well what do you hope that people take away from
Speaker 2: this from your point of view?
Speaker 3: Probably two things, if I'm honest, I would love them
Speaker 3: to realize, or just to be reminded, not to realize,
Speaker 3: to be reminded how incredible Australian music is and can be,
Speaker 3: and just a reminder to make sure that we're supporting
Speaker 3: a local industry on all fronts from you know, from
Speaker 3: music to film to TV, the literature, you know, all
Speaker 3: that kind of reminding ourselves that.
Speaker 4: We've got incredibly creative people here.
Speaker 3: And the second thing is just to really be reminded
Speaker 3: of the power of belief, that sense of being able
Speaker 3: to kind of go yep, sure I can take it.
Speaker 3: I can try it, take a bit of a risk.
Speaker 3: Also give people that power yourself, you know, like give
Speaker 3: them the support and belief that they may need to
Speaker 3: go and try something or to take action. I think
Speaker 3: that was Michael's strength and it's partly why we kind
Speaker 3: of called it ego, you know, like you need a
Speaker 3: bit of ego and provado to get up on stage
Speaker 3: like the Skyhook song. And it's not a bad thing.
Speaker 3: It's not a bad thing to kind of go I
Speaker 3: need to get up.
Speaker 1: And try it and believe in yourself.
Speaker 3: Believe in yourself. Yeah, we do a bit of the
Speaker 3: tall poppy here in Australia, and I think you need
Speaker 3: people like Agininski who's not afraid to get up there
Speaker 3: and say, Yep, this is the vision, this is where
Speaker 3: we're going, and let's go for it.
Speaker 2: Before I let you go, something I ask everyone who
Speaker 2: joins the podcast, what is something from behind the scenes,
Speaker 2: Something that we as an audience didn't get a chance
Speaker 2: to see, Something like a behind the scenes secret of
Speaker 2: what it was like to make this.
Speaker 3: Oh, look, I think there was some pretty surreal moments
Speaker 3: in terms of just who you get to talk to.
Speaker 3: I think for me, I know that we had the
Speaker 3: director in the location we were filming, such as the
Speaker 3: UK and the US and New Zealand.
Speaker 4: I me interview Tim and Nil Finn. But so I
Speaker 4: was zooming in.
Speaker 3: But You're kind of sitting there at you know, three
Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning interviewing Bruce Springsteen, and You're like, what,
Speaker 3: I've never I never thought you a whole of my life,
Speaker 3: you know, am I going to be sitting here talking
Speaker 3: directly to Bruce Springsteen and sting? And even I mean,
Speaker 3: Kylie was amazing, you know, she was in Melbourne with
Speaker 3: us and we'd organized it all the Art Center and
Speaker 3: she was just incredible. But yeah, and I think it
Speaker 3: was It was one of the really special moments actually,
Speaker 3: was that when Ed Sheeran was here on tour for
Speaker 3: his Good Gigs, we actually organized the private screening oh
Speaker 3: wow for him to see cut that it was close
Speaker 3: to our fine cut actually, and yeah, so we got
Speaker 3: it down into our post production house and we watched
Speaker 3: it with him, and yeah, that was they had an
Speaker 3: incredibly personal relationship and obviously it's made the cut, but
Speaker 3: just listening to Ed in his interview and when we
Speaker 3: were interviewing him that day, him really telling the story
Speaker 3: but also lighting up when he was remembering Michael, it
Speaker 3: was it was.
Speaker 4: Just so so incredible to watch.
Speaker 3: It was just incredible, so generous, and again it was
Speaker 3: so personal. You know, you kind of just remember that
Speaker 3: you're making a story about a person and these people
Speaker 3: have all these personal relationships with him, and yeah, you
Speaker 3: never you never forget that as well. So we hoped
Speaker 3: that we could show the different sides of Michael.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of subtext in our.
Speaker 3: Film if you watch it, you know, but I think
Speaker 3: at the end of the day, people just did respect
Speaker 3: what Michael did for the Australian music industry and that's
Speaker 3: in itself an incredible feet.
Speaker 2: Well, I have so much respect for you, Beth. I
Speaker 2: think you have so much warmth and you have been
Speaker 2: so generous with your time sharing stories and I delighted
Speaker 2: to talk to you to thank you so much, and
Speaker 2: I'm going to be in your audience with what you do,
Speaker 2: you know moving forward, You're incredible, So thank you.
Speaker 3: My pleasure, and you know, it's always lovely to talk
Speaker 3: to people who also experienced Michael, you know, in that way,
Speaker 3: because it feels like a real shared experience. And thank you,
Speaker 3: and I hope you keep an out for Bridget Jones.
Speaker 3: Thanks so much, Ben, we'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 1: Thank you so thanks to madic Well, thank