1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the. 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: Time poor parent who just once answers. 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: Now hello, it stock to justin course, I'm here with 5 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: my wife and mound to our six kids. Kighly Mishappy Families. 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:19,560 Speaker 2: Just a quick note, today's content is probably if the 7 00:00:19,600 --> 00:00:22,759 Speaker 2: sensitive is if you've got little kids listening, you may 8 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 2: want to be judicious and discerning in terms of what 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 2: they listen to. In this podcast, non stop talking the 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:32,000 Speaker 2: news at the moment around harm to women at the 11 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 2: hands of men. And this is doing the rounds on TikTok. 12 00:00:37,240 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: It's a fascinating conversation. Okay, if you. 13 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:45,520 Speaker 3: Had to leave your daughter in the forest with either 14 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 3: a man or a bear. 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:50,520 Speaker 2: Which would youious, Well, I think both options gonna suck. 16 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: I don't know this man, Oh gosh, I don't know 17 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: anything about them now, anything about the bear. 18 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 3: Nothing about the bear. My gosh. 19 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:03,240 Speaker 2: I feel he's an a possible choice, which just shows 20 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 2: you how much I don't trust other people. 21 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,200 Speaker 3: I don't know the man. I was gonna say, Man, 22 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 3: the fine, Okay, if you had to leave your daughter 23 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 3: in the woods with a woman or a bear. Oh, 24 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,640 Speaker 3: the facts that we live in a society where that's 25 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 3: what women have to deal with all the time. Of 26 00:01:21,480 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 3: the fear you felt, the fear of leaving your daughter 27 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 3: in the woods with a man. This is how women 28 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 3: feel walking to their cars at night. 29 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,919 Speaker 2: Like the level of thinking one of my kids, trusting 30 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 2: my kid with a bear or a strange man is 31 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 2: a horrifying position. 32 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 3: Like, is that a horrifying walking to your car by 33 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 3: your there's a man there? 34 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: Oh? 35 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 3: You see like a man? Oh you see like a dude? Yeah? 36 00:01:45,560 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 2: Oh no, that makes sense? 37 00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 3: And oh okay, okay again I know about it. 38 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: Is that shocking to you? 39 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 3: Yes, very shocking. That's very nigh over me. 40 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 2: Okay. So TikTok is primarily filled with a whole lot 41 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 2: of people who don't have any credentials or qualifications talk 42 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: about a whole lot of things that they're not really 43 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: qualified to talk about. Nevertheless, it's taking over the world. 44 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 2: It has taken over the world. But this particular thing 45 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: really grabbed me and I've been thinking about it NonStop 46 00:02:11,800 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 2: since I heard it. There's a lot that I don't 47 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: like about it, but boy, boy, is there's some really 48 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 2: important stuff here. Kylie. You haven't spoken yet in this 49 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: podcast because you're not feeling great. 50 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 1: Well after your warning at the beginning of the podcast, 51 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: I thought it might be because the kids would be 52 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: scared by my face. 53 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,359 Speaker 2: So I don't know how this is. I know how 54 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 2: this is going to work out. But other than the 55 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 2: fact that you're feeling kind of awful, what are your comments? 56 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: What are your initial reactions when you think about that conversation. 57 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: How do you feel about handing over your child, one 58 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,959 Speaker 2: of our daughters, to either a man or a bear, 59 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 2: leaving them in the forest with either a man or 60 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 2: a bear. How hard is that decision? 61 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: Well, you know, growing up with Jungle Book, there is 62 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: a little bit of romanticizing in my mind that maybe 63 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: it was. 64 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 2: Blue that I might be leaving my MUTI will be 65 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: safe with the wolves, It'll be okay. 66 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 1: But what really stood out to me as I listened 67 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,399 Speaker 1: to that time and time again was just he eventually 68 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 1: got to the point where it's like, it's obvious, I'm 69 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: going to have to leave her with the man, but 70 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 1: I don't like it. But when it came to the 71 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: second question of whether he would leave it with a 72 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 1: woman or a bear, it was an instant, an instant easy, yes. 73 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the problem, right, So I've been thinking 74 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: about it NonStop as well. And you don't even have 75 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: to hesitate woman or bear a woman absolutely man or beer? 76 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: Oh? 77 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 3: Can I? 78 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: Can I phind a friend? Can I have a lifeline? 79 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: Can I get a fifty to fifty here? 80 00:03:38,760 --> 00:03:42,080 Speaker 1: But what I actually found most interesting is it wasn't 81 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: a conversation between two women. It was a conversation with 82 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: a man. And even a man could see the challenge 83 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: of leaving their daughter with another man. 84 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: This really hurts me, though, so I want to I 85 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: wanted to sort of say, hashtag not all men, and 86 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 2: and that's a really common response by guys. Guys get 87 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: really defensive about this and they say, yeah, but I'm 88 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 2: not like that. We've got this national conversation happening around 89 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: gendered violence at the moment. And the reason this is 90 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: so effective is because when a man has to pause 91 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:16,719 Speaker 2: and consider do I trust other men? That's when the 92 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 2: issue really rears its head. Now many men are not safe, 93 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 2: and far too many men are not safe, and that 94 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 2: number seems to be rising. We'll talk about that later. 95 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:25,920 Speaker 2: But the thing that really hurts me is so many 96 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: men are and yet those ones who I mean, they 97 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 2: really ruin it for everybody, the men that I spend 98 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: time with, Like, across the weekend just gone, we spent 99 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: some time with several different friends and also part of 100 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 2: our church community. I was thinking, I was because of 101 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: this conversation. I couldn't stop thinking about how exceptional, like 102 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 2: how truly truly exceptional, those men were that we were with. 103 00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: They're safe men, and I would absolutely, unflinchingly leave our 104 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 2: kids with pretty much all of it. It's certainly the 105 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 2: ones that we know without any hesitation at all, just yes. 106 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: But that's the thing. You don't get to choose that, 107 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:03,840 Speaker 2: And when you're walking down the street, you don't get 108 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: to or even when you enter a relationship with a guy, 109 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 2: you don't get to say, oh, well this one I 110 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 2: can trust. It takes time. And we even know people 111 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,839 Speaker 2: who the guys that they married suddenly changed within a 112 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 2: couple of weeks of being married. All of a sudden, 113 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 2: they were it was jackal and high. They weren't who 114 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 2: they'd been prior to the marriage. Really really really challenging. 115 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,280 Speaker 2: And the other thought that I had was, even though 116 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: I'm thinking about all the good examples of great men 117 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 2: that I know, when I go surfing, For example, sometimes 118 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 2: depending on where I'm surfing and depending on who's in 119 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: the water, I look at the guys that I'm surfing with, 120 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 2: and I just think, Oh, my goodness, how terrifying. I 121 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 2: would absolutely under no circumstances, no way. Well, I lick 122 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: my daughters with some of these men. I mean that 123 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 2: they're intimidating for me, they're absolutely scary. 124 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: I know that for so many women this is real, 125 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,920 Speaker 1: and the experiences that they have had or are in 126 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: the midst of having a life altering heartbreaking. But I 127 00:06:04,040 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: don't want to live my life where I have to 128 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,119 Speaker 1: second guess the safety of half the human race based 129 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: on their gender. And I don't want my children being raised. 130 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: I have six daughters, and I want them to live 131 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 1: with confidence and with the notion that most people are 132 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: good people. 133 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 2: That's really tricky, though, because when you look at the 134 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 2: way our children have, Like we've got several children who 135 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 2: are our adults, and they've all had some pretty difficult 136 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: experiences with young men, Like they're dating experiences, they're being 137 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 2: out and about with young men. They haven't had universally 138 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: positive experiences there. And what they've learned is that overwhelmingly 139 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,920 Speaker 2: you can't trust a guy when you're on a date 140 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 2: and you're alone with it. That's what they've learned. 141 00:06:57,000 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: Just the other weekend, one of our daughters was out 142 00:06:59,839 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: with some friends at the beach and towards the end 143 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: of the evening it was now dark. Her and her 144 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 1: girlfriend went up to the car park to wait for 145 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: her friend's mum to come and get them, and her 146 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: mum was about twenty minutes away. As the boys left, 147 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: they checked in with the girls and found out that, 148 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: you know, they were going to be waiting for twenty minutes, 149 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: and the girls acknowledged that they were completely fine and 150 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: safe and they were happy for the boys to leave. Well, 151 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: the girls actually thought the boys had left, but what 152 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 1: they did was they went and sat in their car, 153 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: and from their car they could actually see the girls. 154 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 1: But at some point in that twenty minutes, the girls 155 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: moved from where they were and our daughter got a 156 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: phone call to say, have you guys been picked up yet? 157 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:45,600 Speaker 1: And our daughter said, no, no, we're still waiting. They said, 158 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: we just can't see where you are. And at that 159 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: point they realized that the boys had been waiting and 160 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: they said, why are you waiting for us? We're completely fine, 161 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 1: and they just said, we're not going to leave until 162 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: you go, And so they got off the phone after 163 00:07:57,600 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: they tried to convince the boys that it was okay 164 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 1: for them to leave, and it wasn't until they were 165 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: in the car with the girlfriend's mum that the boys 166 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: gave one what last one call and said, okay, you 167 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 1: guys are good. Great, we'll see at school on Monday. 168 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 2: So I love the goodness of those boys in the 169 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: car park. I think that's really important. But at some level, 170 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:18,000 Speaker 2: when I hear that story, that also tells me that 171 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:19,600 Speaker 2: those boys are there because of what they know about 172 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 2: the boys who aren't like them. That highlights to me 173 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 2: that there's some really really great kids out there, really 174 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 2: good boys, but they know that compared to the other boys, 175 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: they are different, they are good, and that there's a 176 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: whole lot of boys that they need to protect our 177 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 2: daughter and her friends from. I spoke with a girl 178 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 2: just in the last twenty four hours who is routinely 179 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 2: sat next to on public transport by boys and men, 180 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,599 Speaker 2: even when there are spare seats nearby, because they like 181 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 2: the look of it. I mean, that's awful for me 182 00:08:49,440 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 2: when I'm traveling and I do a lot of travel. 183 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: If I see a woman walking down the street, often 184 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,559 Speaker 2: my events finish at like nine o'clock at night or 185 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 2: something like that. I'm heading back to a hotel. I'm 186 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 2: walking into a hotel at ten o'clock at night. If 187 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: I see walking down the street towards me, I'll even 188 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 2: walk to the other side of the street, just so 189 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 2: that she doesn't have to wonder about the guy that's 190 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:08,719 Speaker 2: walking towards her. If I'm getting into an elevator and 191 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:10,599 Speaker 2: there's a woman waiting, I'll often just say, hey, you 192 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,319 Speaker 2: grab this one, I'll get the next one. Because I 193 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 2: don't want a woman to feel uncomfortable. I don't want 194 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 2: to feel afraid. I don't think that she needs to 195 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 2: be afraid of me. Obviously I'm not someone to be 196 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 2: afraid of. But I get because I've got a wife 197 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: and six daughters and a mum and several sisters and 198 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,280 Speaker 2: all that sort of thing. I get that for women 199 00:09:26,600 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 2: being around some men can be really intimidating. 200 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 1: This won't be a popular response, but when I look 201 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,800 Speaker 1: at what we're dealing with and I hear this, I 202 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: can't put the blame all on men. There has been 203 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: such a massive breakdown of family over the years, and 204 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 1: it is having a devastating effect on everyone. But this 205 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: really comes down to parents stepping up and taking on 206 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: their role as parents, as moral leaders within our society, 207 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,440 Speaker 1: and teaching our boys and our girl what it means 208 00:10:01,480 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: to live a moralistic life. 209 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 2: Once upon a time, a guy called Augustine of Hippo said, 210 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: right is right, even if no one is doing it. 211 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 2: Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it. In 212 00:10:11,080 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: a post modern world, right is whatever feels good for you. 213 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 2: And as we've become increasingly individualistic and we shrugged our 214 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: shoulders and said, oh, well, whatever works for you as 215 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:23,320 Speaker 2: long as you're not hurting other people. That has led, 216 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: in so many ways to that degradation. Walking away from 217 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 2: the values, walking away from what we know traditionally has 218 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 2: kept people, and specifically boys and men in check. Now, 219 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: I don't want to keep on forcing you to talk, 220 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 2: because I know how I saw your throat is. But 221 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: over the last couple of weeks there's been a whole 222 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 2: lot of rallies and a whole lot of people petitioning 223 00:10:42,679 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 2: the government saying we need to do something about this. 224 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 1: I'm just wondering what people expect politicians to be able 225 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: to do in this scenario. 226 00:10:51,840 --> 00:10:54,280 Speaker 2: Yes, so they made five demands. Five demands at these rallies. 227 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:57,559 Speaker 2: Number one, they wanted to declare domestic violence and national emergency. 228 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: I mean absolutely, no problem. All we need to be 229 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 2: able to say that this needs resources and this needs 230 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: time and effort. Number two mandatory victim blaming prevention training 231 00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 2: for police, media and first responders. That means that they're 232 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 2: essentially saying, we want first responders to believe women when 233 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 2: they say there's something going wrong. I think that is right, 234 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 2: but there also is a risk associated with that, because 235 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:22,679 Speaker 2: we've got good evidence that there are some people who 236 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,080 Speaker 2: will use this as a weapon against men who haven't 237 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 2: done anything wrong. It's a minority of people, but it 238 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 2: does happen because people gain the system to get the 239 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 2: outcomes that they want. Nevertheless, I think overall that is 240 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 2: a really wise step. Number three alternative reporting options for 241 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 2: victims so that they don't have to just go through 242 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 2: the official channels. There should be other ways that they 243 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,240 Speaker 2: can report what they're afraid of. Number four media to 244 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:48,440 Speaker 2: wait forty eight hours before identifying victims. And number five 245 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,920 Speaker 2: better funding. Now, my problem with most of these is 246 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 2: that their ambulances at the bottom of the cliff. It's 247 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: well intentioned, but I think that's missing the point. There 248 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 2: are actually things that can act as a fence at 249 00:11:59,559 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 2: the top of the cliff and stop boys and men 250 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 2: hurting women. 251 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: What would you suggest? 252 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 2: So I'm going to highlight a couple of things that 253 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 2: are not politically correct, but data certainly supports them. I'm 254 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: going to offend pretty much everybody with what I'm going 255 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:11,599 Speaker 2: to say here, but number one, there's a lack of 256 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: security and family life for too many of our young 257 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: men and young women growing up, and that leads them 258 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 2: to seek support and relational belonging in places that are 259 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 2: not healthy and not safe. Reading a book at the 260 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: moment about a young man who went through the foster 261 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 2: care system in the United States, it's not much different 262 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 2: to Australia in terms of the unpredictability and the difficulty 263 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: that he had in forming good relationships, the lack of 264 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 2: male role models, the breakdown of community institutions that build 265 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 2: up and taught morality. As imperfect as many of them are, 266 00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 2: and they are, we had community support, We had structures 267 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 2: in place, we had expectations in place for how people 268 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: would act I'm not suggesting we go back to the 269 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 2: bad old days, because there was a lot bad that happened. However, 270 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 2: we do know that things have gotten worse, there is 271 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: no doubt about that. I think one of the easiest 272 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 2: places to start is with the degradation of community standards. 273 00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 2: It's a huge part of this. I'm going to get really, really, 274 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: really explicit for a second. If you've got kids listening, 275 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 2: this is the thirty to sixty seconds that you don't 276 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 2: want them to listen. I was speaking with a journalist 277 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 2: the other day and she was describing a family member 278 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,440 Speaker 2: a conversation that she'd had with a niece of hers 279 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 2: young adult niece who was having a really hard time 280 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: in relationships and finding a guy that she could trust. 281 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: And the conversation turned explicit and extreme, very very quickly. 282 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 2: And this girl describes to her aunt, my friend the journalist, 283 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 2: about how in her relationships with these young men, choking 284 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:38,920 Speaker 2: and hitting and anal sex were expected, even on a 285 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 2: first date. And this friend just looked through and said, 286 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: that's not normal, and her niece responded, no, but it 287 00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: is normal. That is that's the expectation when we look 288 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 2: at the content that is being consumed by young people pornography. 289 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: The Open Easy government won't even age Kate at recommendations 290 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 2: from the e Safety Commissioner last year where that we 291 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 2: need to get at least to trial in place where 292 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,199 Speaker 2: we age gate access to explicit content. They're doing it 293 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 2: in other countries around the world, other states of the 294 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 2: United States of America, and the Aubaneze government pushed back 295 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,480 Speaker 2: and said no, we can't. Why because we're so worried 296 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:12,880 Speaker 2: about the civil liberties of a handful of adults that 297 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,480 Speaker 2: we're not going to look after our young people. We're 298 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 2: going to present them with every risk factor in the 299 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:20,800 Speaker 2: world so that adults can have freedom of choice. It's 300 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 2: just ridiculous. Kyle and Jackie Oh have been on the 301 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 2: radio in Melbourne for a week now. Last week and 302 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 2: the week before I've had two reports. So Craig Bruce 303 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: is our executive producer. He once upon a time, back 304 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 2: in the olden days, he was the content director for 305 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,360 Speaker 2: the entire Southern Cross Oisterea network, and he was the 306 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: content director when Kyle and Jackie came off the night 307 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 2: program and became the breakfast announced as at TODAYFM. Now. 308 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,800 Speaker 2: Back then, Kyle called a woman and this is a 309 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: direct quote a fat slag and he was reprimanded. This 310 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 2: thing was sent to the advisory bodies of the Peak Body. 311 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 2: It was a big deal. In the last two weeks, 312 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:59,440 Speaker 2: I've heard content from Kyle and Jackie's show because Craig 313 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,320 Speaker 2: sent it to me where they've talked about anal sex. 314 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 2: They've talked about how big Jackie's vagina is. They've talked 315 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 2: about her walking around with seam and in fact they 316 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: didn't use the word semen. They used a much more 317 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,360 Speaker 2: profane term for that, walking around all day with that 318 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,680 Speaker 2: in her stomach. There is no filter. There is absolutely 319 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: no filter. Why is this a problem Because they're the 320 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,440 Speaker 2: number one breakfast show in Sydney. Now they're in Melbourne, 321 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: They've got more than a million daily listeners. And these 322 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 2: discussions normalize sexualization and objectification. They were talking about being 323 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 2: on a dance floor and not knowing who was fingering you. 324 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I know I'm being really explicit, but our 325 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: kids are listening to this. They're the number one show. 326 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 2: This is not a podcast, This is not hidden behind 327 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: an age gate. This is content that is available for 328 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 2: everyone and what it does is it shifts expect that 329 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: this was between six am and eight am. It's blowing 330 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: my mind, and it shifts expectations and builds a belief 331 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 2: and changes subsequent behavior because people think this is what 332 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: people do, but it's normal if you go back to 333 00:15:57,200 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 2: the young woman that was talking to the journal's friend 334 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 2: of mine, but it's not. And this stuff matters so ultimately. 335 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 2: I mean, it sounds like I'm in a moral soapbox 336 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 2: right now, but parenting is a moral endeavor. And when 337 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 2: we remove morality from most of the institutions of our society, 338 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: including in too many cases our families, because of the 339 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: proliferation of pornography, because of the coarseness and degradation of 340 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:25,240 Speaker 2: the community content, because of the breakdown of the institutions, 341 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 2: and because families just aren't talking about this sort of stuff. 342 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 2: This is the result. And people keep on saying, we 343 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,480 Speaker 2: shouldn't have to teach our girls to stay safe, we 344 00:16:33,520 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 2: need to teach boys to stop hurting and being violent worse. 345 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 2: And that's true, that's absolutely true. But here's the thing. 346 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 2: The world is not perfect, and we actually need to 347 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 2: do both. Fewer perpetrators completely essential, absolutely needed, But we 348 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: can't tarnish your boys either, because there are some beautifully 349 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 2: good boys that are out there, and we interact with 350 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 2: many of them, and we're so grateful for them. There 351 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 2: was a school in Warnable a couple of years ago 352 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 2: that made all the boys stand up and apologize to 353 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: the girls for being boys because because of the terrible 354 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 2: things that boys do to girls, and that was appalling. 355 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,040 Speaker 2: It was rightly condemned. But Kylie, this isn't going to 356 00:17:08,080 --> 00:17:11,399 Speaker 2: be quickly fixed at a national level. No level of 357 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:14,320 Speaker 2: political involvement is really going to make this happen. It's 358 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:16,200 Speaker 2: something that has to be fixed at an individual level 359 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 2: and at a family level. We've got the evidence and 360 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:20,679 Speaker 2: we know that there are so many good men and 361 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 2: so many good boys. We've got to get to a 362 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 2: point where if you're asked if you would rather leave 363 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 2: your daughter with a man or a bear, you can 364 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,720 Speaker 2: answer just as quickly as you can if you've given 365 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 2: the choice between a bear and a woman. Got to 366 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,280 Speaker 2: be able to say a man and feel good about it. 367 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from 368 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer. We hope 369 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:46,280 Speaker 2: that this one's given you plenty of food for thought. 370 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:48,560 Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. We'll be back tomorrow on 371 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,399 Speaker 2: the podcast. Answering your questions from the podcast page at 372 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:56,880 Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot au.