1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: bunjelung Caalcultin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It is Thursday, 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 2: the sixth of October. Man, It's still good to be back. 9 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: I'm going to ride this week back for a little 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: bit longer. I'm here today with our editor Billy Fitzsimon's 11 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,520 Speaker 2: and I'm going to be joined on the deep dive 12 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: today by our political journalist Tom Crowley. I was interested 13 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 2: to get a little bit of a history lesson on Iran. 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:51,559 Speaker 2: It's been in the news a lot this week for 15 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 2: the protests that's spreading around the country and around the world. 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: But perhaps it's time we take a step back and 17 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:00,880 Speaker 2: look at the broader context before we do that. Billy, 18 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: what is making headlines this morning? 19 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 3: Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi has said that he looks forward 20 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 3: to meeting with his Solomon Islands counterpart, Manise Soogovare in 21 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 3: Canberra today. Albanzi said he would discuss avenues to building 22 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,199 Speaker 3: a strong and prosperous specific region with Sogovare, which would 23 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 3: quote be based on principles of transparency, respect and partnership. 24 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,000 Speaker 2: It's not raining men, but it's raining a hell of 25 00:01:28,040 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 2: a lot else. The record for the wettest calendar year 26 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 2: in Sydney's history is said to be broken this week, 27 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 2: with the all time record for rainfall set in nineteen 28 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:40,880 Speaker 2: fifty only sixty four millimeters away. As of yesterday morning, 29 00:01:40,959 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 2: Sydney had recorded two thousand, one hundred and thirty millimeters 30 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: of precipitation and is bracing for even more rainfall throughout 31 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: the week. 32 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 3: European Parliament has voted to adopt a universal USB C 33 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: charger that will force Apple to change their iPhone ports. 34 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 3: The change will begin in twenty twenty and means that 35 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: mobile electronic products, including smartphones and tablets would need to 36 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 3: include the USBC charger. The agreement is expected to be 37 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 3: signed into law next year. 38 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: And today's good news sticks with the European continent. Slovenia 39 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 2: has become the first country in Eastern Europe to legalize 40 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: same sex marriage and adoption. It comes following an amendment 41 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 2: past in Slovenian parliament this week and a High Court 42 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: ruling in July that found pre existing marriage laws discriminated 43 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:57,040 Speaker 2: against gay and lesbian couples. I want to talk to 44 00:02:57,040 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 2: you today about Iran because this is there's a story 45 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 2: that is dominating not only our social feeds, but also 46 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: for a lot of us our focus on world affairs. 47 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: There seems to be an ever growing amount of photo 48 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 2: and video that we're seeing from the region. But let's 49 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:15,359 Speaker 2: go back a few steps. Tell me a little bit 50 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 2: about what's happening right now in Iran. Thanks Sam So, 51 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: Billy and Zara did speak about this last week on 52 00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 2: the pod, and you can go back and listen to 53 00:03:23,639 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: that episode if you missed it. But a quick recap 54 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: of the here and now. So in September, a twenty 55 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,800 Speaker 2: two year old woman, Massa Armoni was killed shortly after 56 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: she was violently arrested by Iran's morality police. So the 57 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: morality police, their job really is to enforce a whole 58 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: variety of behavioral and dress standards that are part of 59 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 2: the Islamic republics pushed to kind of impose a strict 60 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 2: definition of Islamic morality on the population and in particular 61 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: women's standards of dress. And in this case, the hitchab 62 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: and so Massa Armony was arrested and murdered, and that 63 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 2: prompted an outbreak of protests, firstly in her hometown in 64 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 2: the Kurdistan region, but now more broadly, and it's spiraled 65 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: into something that is a lot bigger than just a 66 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 2: protest about a single person's death. In a sense, Massa 67 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: Amani's death has become the spark that has ignited what 68 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 2: a lot of young Iranians and women who are leading 69 00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: this protest and leading this movement say is more than 70 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: a protest, that they're seeking a revolution. 71 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 4: They want to overthrow the government. So there have been 72 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 4: some really striking scenes in the streets of Iran and 73 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 4: solidarity demonstrations around the world, of women burning hijabs, cutting 74 00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,839 Speaker 4: off their hair, and of chance calling again for the 75 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 4: end and for the overthrow of the government, death to 76 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 4: the dictator, and people saying that they're willing really to 77 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 4: sacrifice their lives in a push to get rid of 78 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 4: the government. Foreign governments so far have mostly stuck to 79 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:52,279 Speaker 4: criticizing Iran for its heavy handed response to protests for 80 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,400 Speaker 4: the violent crackdown, But more and more we're starting to 81 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,360 Speaker 4: hear this talk and I guess the keyword revolution and 82 00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 4: a sense that this is a movement that's not going 83 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 4: to go away. That the death of Massa Amoni was 84 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 4: the final straw that has I guess, ignited grievances and 85 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 4: tensions that have existed about Iran's government for a very 86 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 4: long time, and that I think is where we're getting 87 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,880 Speaker 4: this renewed and ongoing focus on Iran. In the last 88 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:17,760 Speaker 4: couple of weeks. 89 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back. 90 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: It certainly does feel like we are crescendoing to a moment. 91 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: But I wonder if you could take me back a bit, Tom, 92 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 2: how did Iran as a country get to this point? 93 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,119 Speaker 4: So I might go way back with your permission, Sam, 94 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,920 Speaker 4: because I think sometimes when we talk about countries in 95 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 4: the world that we don't spend a lot of time 96 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 4: talking about, it's really easy to be overly simplistic, and 97 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 4: we want to try and avoid that trap here at TDA. 98 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 4: You know, it's a bit like earlier in the year, 99 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:46,119 Speaker 4: I think it's fair to say none of us knew 100 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 4: much at the beginning of the year about Ukraine and 101 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 4: its history. It seems that we're coming towards a similarly 102 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,240 Speaker 4: large global moment here in Iran. So I think it's 103 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 4: important on the pod to kind of hit pause and 104 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 4: rewind and to give a little bit of that broader 105 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 4: perspective of Iran. The Middle East is a very complicated region, 106 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 4: and I guess the place to start the story is 107 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 4: probably with colonization of the British Empire. So in the 108 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 4: nineteenth century, going back to the eighteen hundreds, so much 109 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 4: of this area was colonized by Britain, and then the 110 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 4: twentieth century became about this struggle for Middle Eastern countries 111 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 4: and collections to rule themselves autonomously. And the story of 112 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 4: the twentieth century has been about coming out of the 113 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 4: shadows of British colonization and then running into a world 114 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 4: of tension between US and Russia and the Cold War. 115 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 4: So these countries kind of fought for their independence in 116 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 4: the middle of the twentieth century, and then they found 117 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 4: themselves caught up in a global conflict where the US 118 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:49,279 Speaker 4: and Russia were meddling in global affairs, trying to kind 119 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:54,119 Speaker 4: of cultivate friends and alienate enemies, and so in a sense, 120 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 4: the Middle East has continually been buffeted by these kind 121 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 4: of big international powers and the way that they've clashed 122 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 4: with one another, and so much of kind of understanding 123 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 4: their complicated history comes from understanding it as a response 124 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,960 Speaker 4: to that. In the case of Iran, in kind of 125 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,640 Speaker 4: the nineteen forties and fifties, it was viewed as a 126 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 4: friend of the West, and I guess a relatively kind 127 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 4: of liberal society as far as the Middle East was concerned, 128 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 4: and in the early nineteen fifties it became a democracy, 129 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 4: but then the democratic president of Iran tried to nationalize 130 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:32,120 Speaker 4: the British controlled petrol company. The West didn't like that. 131 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 4: There was a US inspired coup to remove Iran's democratic leader, 132 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 4: and instead the US installed the old Iranian monarchy, which 133 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 4: was viewed as kind of safe and friendly. Certainly was 134 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 4: associated with more cultural liberalism and more cultural freedoms in Iran, 135 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 4: but was also criticized for being corrupt, for presiding over 136 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 4: significant wealth inequality, and also really for brutal repression of dissent. 137 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 4: And so there was a lot of anger in Iran, 138 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,360 Speaker 4: sense of betrayal in the way that the West had 139 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 4: overthrown a democratically elected government, and equally frustration about this monarchy, 140 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 4: and that led to a really broad social movement that 141 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 4: included you know, conservative religious figures, but it also included 142 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:17,400 Speaker 4: academics and young people. It was a broad movement in 143 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 4: Iran and a really significant uprising of people in the 144 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 4: nineteen seventies that led to what's called the Iranian Revolution 145 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 4: in nineteen seventy nine. Now I give all of this 146 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: long history because this revolution in nineteen seventy nine, what 147 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 4: it did is it brought to power this conservative Islamic 148 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 4: theocratic sort of religious authoritarian regime. And what has followed 149 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 4: has been something that's very kind of you know, conservative 150 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 4: and brutal. And what has followed in particular has been 151 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,119 Speaker 4: this you know, really harsh and violent policing of morality 152 00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 4: and restrictions on the rights of women. That's not necessarily 153 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,160 Speaker 4: the mood that brought this government to power, but it 154 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 4: has become i suppose, the dominant feature of this Iranian government, 155 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 4: and since nineteen seventy nine, under the Islamic public of Iran, 156 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 4: a big, big part of the focus of that government 157 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 4: has been enforcing standards of morality on Iran's population and 158 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 4: particularly as regards women. 159 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,480 Speaker 2: So just to clarify, there hasn't been a change to 160 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 2: Iranian's government, if you want to call it that, since 161 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine. No, that's right. 162 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 4: So since that Islamic Republic began in nineteen seventy nine, 163 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 4: Iran is ruled by a Supreme Leader. There actually only 164 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 4: been two Supreme leaders. So it began with the Ayatola Kohmani, 165 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 4: who took over Iran in nineteen seventy nine, and when 166 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 4: he died a decade later, his successor, the Ayatola Ali Kamana, 167 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 4: was the replacement, and he's been there since nineteen eighty nine. 168 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 4: And in Iran, now you know, the Supreme Leader is 169 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 4: basically in control of everything. As a president who sits 170 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 4: beneath the Supreme Leader, that is really kind of you know, subordinate, 171 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 4: and the Supreme Leader is the one with all of 172 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 4: that power. And it has been characterized again by you know, 173 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 4: repression of dissentant and all of that sort of thing, 174 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 4: but in particular by this policing of morality. And it's 175 00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 4: been this struggle in Iran because I guess, as I say, 176 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,679 Speaker 4: the Iranian Revolution was complicated. There are a lot of 177 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 4: different groups that wanted very different things. There are large 178 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 4: sections of society in Iran who have never been comfortable 179 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 4: with this policing of morality in this way, and so 180 00:10:16,400 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 4: there's always been some struggle against that. What you were 181 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 4: starting to see in the twenty first century in Iran 182 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 4: was that the morality police in practice were not policing 183 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 4: this so heavily, and so you know, in response to 184 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 4: kind of protests and you know, there was a really 185 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 4: prominent death of a young Iranian woman in two thousand 186 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 4: and nine. Her death was filmed and shared widely and 187 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:39,800 Speaker 4: became again a kind of a spark. There were a 188 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 4: lot of similarities in two thousand and nine to a 189 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 4: big protest movement that broke out there, and morality police 190 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 4: raids became less common. So essentially these rules were still there, 191 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 4: but Iranian women had become used to kind of you know, 192 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 4: wearing their hitjubs more loosely, and in some cases to 193 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 4: not wearing them. Essentially, there was this kind of implicit 194 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 4: understanding that in exchange for continuing to support the regime, 195 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 4: that this sort of heavy handed morality stuff wouldn't be 196 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 4: enforced as much. That's what's changed this year. So a 197 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 4: new sort of fairly conservative president who's decided to be 198 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:11,000 Speaker 4: a little bit more hardline in a way these things 199 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 4: are enforced has brought this to a forur in a 200 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 4: new way. 201 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,880 Speaker 2: That's a really interesting distinction that you've made there. So 202 00:11:17,920 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: you've said that we've had the same regime since nineteen 203 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 2: seventy nine, the same leader since nineteen eighty nine, but 204 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 2: it was the new president of this year that has 205 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: led to a change. Were we expecting that sort of shift. 206 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 4: So it seems to have come as a significant surprise 207 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 4: to people in Iran since the beginning of the year. Really, 208 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 4: So one of the key events that people point back 209 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 4: to is in July there was another woman, a sort 210 00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 4: of a prominent artist and writer who was arrested for 211 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 4: violating hijab laws. She disappeared for two weeks and then 212 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 4: she was forced to appear on state television and issue 213 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 4: and apology, and it was quite apparent from the footage 214 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 4: that she'd been tortured. And so that was the beginning 215 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 4: of you know what's included usual amount of condemnation of 216 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 4: this sort of thing from prominent Iranians, you know, celebrities 217 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,760 Speaker 4: and soccer players and people like that. There has been 218 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 4: you know, more significant criticism, and you know, it's easy 219 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 4: to be overly simplistic, but there have always been these 220 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 4: voices of dissent in the Iranian public and they decided, 221 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 4: you know, in response to this sort of stronger crackdown, 222 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:22,320 Speaker 4: that they weren't going to stand for it. And that's 223 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 4: where the death of this young woman, Massa Armoni has 224 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 4: been the kind of the straw that broke the camel's back. 225 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 4: It began with protests in her hometown, but it's spread 226 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 4: much broader than that all over Iran. Now to these calls, 227 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:37,320 Speaker 4: especially from young people, and I guess, you know, the 228 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:40,200 Speaker 4: revolution in nineteen seventy nine. Now you've got a couple 229 00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 4: of generations of young people who don't remember anything before 230 00:12:43,720 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 4: the Iranian Revolution and maybe you know, don't share the 231 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 4: older generations, you know, views on the monarchy that came 232 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 4: before it. You know, all that they've known is life 233 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 4: under the Islamic Republic, and you know, they're not willing 234 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,480 Speaker 4: to accept this degree of kind of repression and leasing, 235 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 4: and they're calling for an end to the government and 236 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,520 Speaker 4: even saying, you know, quite dramatic things about how they're 237 00:13:04,559 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 4: willing to sacrifice their own lives to achieve that. And 238 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,680 Speaker 4: I think the other variable that's at play at the 239 00:13:10,720 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 4: moment that we've seen not only here in Iran but 240 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 4: also in the Black Lives Matter movement and even to 241 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:18,880 Speaker 4: an extent in Ukraine is the role of social media 242 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 4: and the ability for us as a global audience to 243 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:25,040 Speaker 4: see the mobile phone footage from one or two protesters 244 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:29,480 Speaker 4: or you know, striking images from inside Iranian classrooms and 245 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:33,120 Speaker 4: really kind of an intimate portrayal of what could be 246 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 4: described as a revolution. Do you think it is a revolution? 247 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: Tom? 248 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 4: It is too early to know what's going to happen. 249 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,719 Speaker 4: Of course, the government has killed large numbers of demonstrators 250 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 4: in the last week or so that drawn condemnation from 251 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 4: leaders around the world, so it's not clear at this 252 00:13:48,760 --> 00:13:52,320 Speaker 4: stage where this will end. It's also really difficult to 253 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 4: you know, you mentioned the power of social media, and 254 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:57,320 Speaker 4: that is absolutely true, and that's why the Iranian government 255 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 4: has cut off internet access to large parts of the country, 256 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 4: which is really restricted. You know, there are there are 257 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 4: bits and pieces of video footage making their way out 258 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 4: of Iran, but it's really difficult to get a picture 259 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 4: of exactly what's happening on the ground at the moment, 260 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,560 Speaker 4: and so that makes it really difficult to know what's 261 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 4: going to happen next. The consistent theme that seems to 262 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 4: be coming out of you know, Iranians talking about this 263 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 4: is that this feels different. And you know, I've had 264 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 4: some conversations with people in Australia who have family back 265 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 4: in Iran over the last week or so, and that 266 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 4: is the message that is coming really clearly, is that 267 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 4: you know, this feels different. There is something different in 268 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 4: the air at this time in the way that people 269 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,960 Speaker 4: have responded in Iran. So it does seem to be 270 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 4: a really significant turning point. Whatever's going to happen next. 271 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 2: The beginnings of a potential revolution led by women and 272 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 2: young people. Tom Crowley, thank you for joining us on 273 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: the Daily Odds this morning and keep an eye on 274 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: this story for us. I'm sure there's more to come.