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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ohs. We are

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Speaker 2: officially back for twenty twenty three. It is very exciting.

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Speaker 2: Today's Monday, the sixteenth of jan I'm Zara and Sam.

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Speaker 2: How was he break?

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Speaker 3: I had a great break, thanks Zara, and I'm really

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Speaker 3: excited to be down in Melbourne for the next two

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Speaker 3: weeks doing some work on the Australian Open. This is

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Speaker 3: one of the first times the Daily os has thrown

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Speaker 3: themselves into an event and I'm really pumped to report

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Speaker 3: from the AO and to meet some members of the

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Speaker 3: TDA community. Today's podcast is really special. It's actually one

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Speaker 3: of the ones I've been the most nervous to prepare

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Speaker 3: for because today's guest is really high profile. Well, most

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Speaker 3: of us would barely know the names of the ambassadors

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Speaker 3: who come to Australia for a few years of life

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Speaker 3: in Canberra. Now there's an exception, Caroline Caroline Kennedy. Caroline

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Speaker 3: Kennedy who served as the US Ambassador to Japan from

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Speaker 3: twenty thirteen to twenty seventeen and is currently the Ambassador

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Speaker 3: to Australia. What a way to kick off the dale

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Speaker 3: Os podcast officially for twenty twenty three than to have

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Speaker 3: on the US Ambassador to Australia, Caroline Kennedy. I'm going

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Speaker 3: to bring you that chat in just a minute, but first, Ara,

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Speaker 3: what's making headlines this morning?

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Speaker 2: A funeral for Cardinal George Pell has been held in

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Speaker 2: Saint Peter's Basilica at the Vatican, with the Pope delivering

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Speaker 2: a final blessing. The cardinal's body will now be sent

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Speaker 2: to Australia for burial. Jodge Pell served jail time for

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Speaker 2: child sex offenses, for which he was later acquitted.

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Speaker 3: China has reported sixty thousand COVID related deaths in just

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Speaker 3: over a month. It's the first major death toll released

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Speaker 3: since the country stopped its zero COVID policy. Now, it's

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Speaker 3: thought the real total is likely to be higher because

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Speaker 3: the figures refer only to deaths recorded at medical facilities.

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Speaker 2: Australia's top women's tennis player Isiler tom Lanovich, has withdrawn

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Speaker 2: from the Australian Open due to an ongoing knee injury.

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Speaker 2: Announcing her withdrawal over the weekend, tom Lanovich said, I've

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Speaker 2: done everything in my power to get healthy, but just

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Speaker 2: ran out of time to heal and be one hundred

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Speaker 2: percent ready to compete at a high level.

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Speaker 1: It's tough because I do feel like it was improving

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Speaker 1: a lot, but just not Yeah, right out of time.

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Speaker 3: And today's good news. The opening game of the FIFA

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Speaker 3: Women's World Cup, which is hosted in Australia and New

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Speaker 3: Zealand this year, is set to move from Alian Stadium

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Speaker 3: to a Core Stadium in home Bush and that's to

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Speaker 3: accommodate forty thousand more people in the crowd. The game

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Speaker 3: will see The Matilda's take on Ireland on July twenty Sozara.

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Speaker 3: Today's guest on the podcast is the US Ambassador to Australia,

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Speaker 3: Caroline Kennedy. Now we're talking here about the daughter of

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Speaker 3: former President John F. Kennedy and Jacqueline Kennedy ONASSUS. Caroline

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Speaker 3: Kennedy was born in nineteen fifty seven, and she grew

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Speaker 3: up in the White House during her father's presidency. Her

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Speaker 3: father was assassinated when Caroline was only six years old,

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Speaker 3: and from then Caroline has pursued a stunning and stellar

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Speaker 3: career in public policy and public life. She went Harvard

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Speaker 3: and studied law. She's published twelve books, most of them

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Speaker 3: about constitutional law, particularly about the right of privacy, and

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Speaker 3: in two thousand and eight, she endorsed Barack Obama for

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Speaker 3: president and later served as his United States Ambassador to

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Speaker 3: Japan from twenty thirteen to twenty seventeen. She's now a

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Speaker 3: board member of the John F. Kennedy Presidential Library and Museum.

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Speaker 3: But importantly to us, she started as ambass that to

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Speaker 3: Australia in July of last year. Ambassador Kennedy, Welcome to

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Speaker 3: the Daily OS. I watched your confirmation hearing for I

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Speaker 3: know this wasn't the most colorful vision, but we did.

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Speaker 4: What else were you doing that day?

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Speaker 3: It was quite a fun. It was quite fun to

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Speaker 3: see the different questions being posted to different ambassadorial candidates.

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Speaker 3: You had nine questions posed to you, and all nine

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Speaker 3: were about China. How much of your job as Ambassador

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Speaker 3: to Australia is about China.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think really the Biden administration has made sort

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Speaker 4: of its priority our alliances around the world, and certainly

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Speaker 4: if you look at the war in Ukraine, what we've

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Speaker 4: seen is coming together of all these countries that are

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Speaker 4: standing up for the Ukrainian people. And so I think

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Speaker 4: it's that kind of strength and that kind of friendship

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Speaker 4: that is really the most powerful force for peace and stability.

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Speaker 4: And so China, you know, is obviously a topic. The

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Speaker 4: economy is huge, COVID has had huge consequences, the changing

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Speaker 4: you know, security dynamics in the region is something that

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Speaker 4: I saw in Japan. But the really interesting thing about

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Speaker 4: being ambassador here is that, you know, no matter what

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Speaker 4: the disagreements are in the US, I think that foreign

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Speaker 4: policy is much more bipartisan. And I would say that Australia,

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Speaker 4: of all places and joys the broadest and strongest support

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Speaker 4: in the US, and you know among politicians, but then

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Speaker 4: among younger people. Everybody wants to come here. So I'm

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Speaker 4: so lucky.

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Speaker 3: There was an interesting development with two senators in the US,

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Speaker 3: Senator Jack Read and James Inhoff. They wrote a letter

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Speaker 3: to President Biden saying that the pressures of delivering submarines

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Speaker 3: as part of the Orchest deal. So the deal is

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Speaker 3: that the US will help Australia army up in the

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Speaker 3: provision of submarines, is actually going to take away from

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Speaker 3: the ability for the US to equip their own defense forces.

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Speaker 3: It was obviously important enough for them to write a

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Speaker 3: letter to the President. What's your view on that tension.

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Speaker 4: Well, this is a huge complicated project and there are

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Speaker 4: challenges for the US and for Australia to pull it off.

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Speaker 4: But there was a you know, Jack Reed has already walked,

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Speaker 4: you know, kind of you know, been reassured. I think

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Speaker 4: there's I was at Osmond in December, which is the

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Speaker 4: meeting of the Secretary of State and the Foreign Minister

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Speaker 4: Wong and Deputy Prime Minister Marls and our Secretary of Defense,

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Speaker 4: and the kind of joint commitment, the sense of purpose

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Speaker 4: and mission, and I mean there was not one shred

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Speaker 4: of doubt that this thing was going to be just

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Speaker 4: such a game changer and such a success and bring

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Speaker 4: so many benefits to both of our countries in terms

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Speaker 4: of innovation kind of opportunity as well as sort of

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Speaker 4: more traditional submarine technology and industrial base. It's something that

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Speaker 4: I think everybody's working on now with silupply chains and technology.

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Speaker 3: Our Prime Minister said that we have to piak the

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Speaker 3: time to cooperate with China, but also then to push back.

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Speaker 3: What's an example of some area where we need to

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Speaker 3: be cooperating with China.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the obviously it's in our interest in

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Speaker 4: the US. You know, in Australia have worked hard to

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Speaker 4: grow and maintain the peace and stability of this region

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Speaker 4: and that's one of the reasons why so much prosperity

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Speaker 4: has come. But I think the really important area, one

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Speaker 4: of the very important areas that we really need to

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Speaker 4: work with China on is climate and we can't solve

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Speaker 4: this problem. We can't address this challenge without the Chinese.

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Speaker 4: They are the biggest emitters right now and it's having

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Speaker 4: you know, existential consequences in the Pacific as well as

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Speaker 4: you know around the world. So the US needs to

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Speaker 4: do our part. We've passed this huge legislation to really

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Speaker 4: have a significant impact on this. But that's certainly an

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Speaker 4: area where we need to work with China.

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Speaker 3: So where do we push back.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think people in the US really admire the

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Speaker 4: way Australia has, you know, stood up or not caved

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Speaker 4: into the sort of economic coercion, and I think that

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Speaker 4: that was really sent a powerful signal to the world

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Speaker 4: that it was possible to stand up for your own

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Speaker 4: interest against a much bigger country. And so I think

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Speaker 4: that that kind of action is a good example, and

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Speaker 4: it inspired others Lithuania and others to have the courage

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Speaker 4: to believe that they could survive, and also for other

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Speaker 4: countries like the US to realize that we can help

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Speaker 4: those who are having a tough time, which is obviously

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Speaker 4: something that we should do want to do, especially with

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Speaker 4: the close ally like Australia.

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Speaker 3: You said before that you enjoyed a previous posting as

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Speaker 3: the ambassador to Japan. What are you noticing is the

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Speaker 3: big differences between those two geeks?

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Speaker 4: Oh, they're the same, the same thing now, I mean,

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Speaker 4: the cultures are really different. Let's just say state the obvious,

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Speaker 4: but both are really close allies of the United States.

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Speaker 4: Both share a commitment to individual freedom, to democracy, to

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Speaker 4: human rights, and so I think that's one of the

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Speaker 4: reasons why it's so rewarding to be in a and

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Speaker 4: both countries, you know, have generations of friendship and partnership

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Speaker 4: and so building on that. I mean, I you know,

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Speaker 4: come from a family of people who have you know,

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Speaker 4: worked in public life over generations, and I think I've

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Speaker 4: really feeled the benefit of that myself, and I've seen

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Speaker 4: how rewarding it is. And so it's the kind of

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Speaker 4: and when you see the links between Japan and the

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Speaker 4: US and how that's kind of promoted opportunity in both

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Speaker 4: countries and same here, it's the kind of thing you

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Speaker 4: feel like, well, it's my turn to pass it on

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Speaker 4: so that you know, younger people realize like how great

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Speaker 4: it is to work in another country, And especially Australia

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Speaker 4: and the US, we were both really diverse societies, you know,

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Speaker 4: formed by immigrants who and so there's just this sense

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Speaker 4: of optimism and enthusiasm about the future that I think

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Speaker 4: comes from some of that.

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Speaker 3: It's a really interesting point about both your postings being

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Speaker 3: with allies. Do you speak to other ambassadors in the

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Speaker 3: network and the ones that are posted to countries that

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Speaker 3: aren't allies of the US, what do they say about

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Speaker 3: their role and would you be attracted to that kind

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Speaker 3: of posting.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think any place you feel like you can

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Speaker 4: have an impact, you know, in the short time that

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Speaker 4: you're an ambassador is the kind of place you want

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Speaker 4: to go. I have such admiration for the State Department

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Speaker 4: colleagues who serve in these really really difficult and challenging countries,

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Speaker 4: some of which don't like the US, some of which

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Speaker 4: do or is a work in progress. And so I

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Speaker 4: think that you just learned so much from living in

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Speaker 4: a different society, not just about that country, but about

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Speaker 4: your own country as well. And so I've been, you know,

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Speaker 4: working in an allied country, especially now in alliances are

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Speaker 4: so important, is really I think important and rewarding. So

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Speaker 4: I'm happy to do that. But there are so many places.

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Speaker 4: You know in every place is you know, you learn

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Speaker 4: once you get to know people in a country, that's really.

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Speaker 3: The best and part of you getting to know Australia

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Speaker 3: has been learning a lot about First Nations cultures here

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Speaker 3: in Australia. This year, Australians are going to go to

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Speaker 3: a referendum to talk about a voice to Parliament. Have

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Speaker 3: you had a chance to engage with that issue and

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Speaker 3: what are your observations about the way that that discussion

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Speaker 3: is being handled by Australia.

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Speaker 4: Well, the first weekend after I arrived in Australia, I

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Speaker 4: went to the Garment Festival where the Prime Minister announced

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Speaker 4: his intention to put forward this referendum. So I felt

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Speaker 4: like I was sort of you know, watching history and

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Speaker 4: you know, the chance to see something this consequential unfold.

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Speaker 4: I started out of law school writing books about the

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Speaker 4: Constitution as a bill of rights and studying that and

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Speaker 4: you know, continuing on with my work in education. So

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Speaker 4: I think this journey of reconciliation, raising awareness of these issues.

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Speaker 4: I think Australia has a lot to teach the US

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Speaker 4: and and you know, vice versa, but that I am

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Speaker 4: really interested to watch how this debate unfolds and how

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Speaker 4: the process works here in another democracy.

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Speaker 3: Would you ever come out for or against the proposed

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Speaker 3: change to the constitution?

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Speaker 4: Well, as a I'm really here. You know, I don't

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Speaker 4: really comment on domestic Australian politics and issues because this

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Speaker 4: is about the broader relationship. But I'm you know, I

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Speaker 4: think that there's a lot of things that we can

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Speaker 4: learn in the US from this this process.

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Speaker 3: In this journey, I want to turn to you now

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Speaker 3: a little bit more, and perhaps they're talking about me

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Speaker 3: this whole time now we've been talking about I think

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Speaker 3: we've been talking about the US, Yes, we have, But

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Speaker 3: I really want to know more about you, and I

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Speaker 3: want to start in the future and the work backwards.

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Speaker 4: Don't say like, what would you say to your younger

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Speaker 4: self or something like that. Really, No, that's so confusing.

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Speaker 4: I can't ever follow that question.

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Speaker 3: Well, it doesn't make sense, does it your younger self?

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Speaker 3: I'm going to ask a very tangible question with a

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Speaker 3: very simple answer. Would you ever run for president?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: I think I know.

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Speaker 4: I can't see that electoral I feel like I've really

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Speaker 4: had a chance to work in local government in New

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Speaker 4: York City in the Department of Education, which I really

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Speaker 4: found to be incredibly rewarding, and then working in overseas,

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Speaker 4: so electoral politics, I don't think my personality would be

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Speaker 4: good for that. Plus I'm getting too old.

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Speaker 3: What about your personality wouldn't suit that?

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Speaker 4: I don't think i'd like it. I don't like to argue.

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Speaker 3: A diplomatic doesn't like to argue, is very diplomatic. So

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Speaker 3: that's you found the right career exactly. I was reading

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Speaker 3: an op ed that you wrote in the Boston Globe

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Speaker 3: just before President Biden really ramped up his campaign, And

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Speaker 3: what you talked about in that op ed was how

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Speaker 3: President Biden's personal loss of his first wife and daughter

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Speaker 3: was informing the way that he viewed public policy, and

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Speaker 3: it brought a certain empathy to the role. And I

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Speaker 3: wondered whether that was as much about your relationship to

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Speaker 3: policy as it was his. How has personal loss impacted

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Speaker 3: the way that you viewed politics?

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Speaker 4: Yes, well, I think, as President Biden has said many times,

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Speaker 4: I think it just makes you more aware of how

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Speaker 4: fortunate you are and how you know, if there's anything

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Speaker 4: you can do to help somebody else who's having a

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Speaker 4: hard time, that's really a great privilege. So my family,

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Speaker 4: I think has taught me that as well. So I

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Speaker 4: feel like I tried to, you know, make something positive

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Speaker 4: happen despite you know, everybody has difficulties in their life,

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Speaker 4: and everybody yets, you know, so the question is how

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Speaker 4: do you deal with them?

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Speaker 3: You back to President Obama in two thousand and eight.

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Speaker 3: Do you see major differences between the two Democratic presidents

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Speaker 3: in their leadership style and which one do you align with?

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Speaker 4: Well, I mean there are many many differences, just I

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Speaker 4: mean in the time and history that we are as well,

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Speaker 4: and so I think President Obama really captured the attention

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Speaker 4: of the world of a generation. He got so many

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Speaker 4: people interested in politics hanging attention and pass significant legislation

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Speaker 4: with Vice President of Biden's help, particularly on healthcare, which

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Speaker 4: I know in a lot of countries people take for granted,

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Speaker 4: but in the US it was a seventy year struggle,

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Speaker 4: mostly led by my uncle Teddy, who just fought relentlessly

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Speaker 4: to make health care affordable and accessible for American So

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Speaker 4: I feel like each one of them is, you know,

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Speaker 4: the right person at the right time. And I certainly

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Speaker 4: think that President Biden has done just the most incredible job,

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Speaker 4: especially it took office at a very difficult time. Ran

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Speaker 4: to unite kind of American, restore the soul of American,

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Speaker 4: and he's really done that, as well as achieving major,

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Speaker 4: major legislative victories in a difficult Congress to manage, whether

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Speaker 4: it's an infrastructure or act, the Inflation Production Act, which

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Speaker 4: is the biggest climate legislation of any country. You know,

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Speaker 4: that's happening, and it's going to transform the US and

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Speaker 4: really put us in the lead both environmentally but also technologically.

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Speaker 4: So I feel like his administration is just kind of

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Speaker 4: doing these very difficult things, and that probably is partly

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Speaker 4: because of his unbelievably long career studying the process, knowing

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Speaker 4: how to get things done. And I think, you know,

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Speaker 4: that's something that we don't always value enough. It's that

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Speaker 4: kind of skill and experience. So it's you know, as politics,

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Speaker 4: you know, becomes more entertaining, you really need people who

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Speaker 4: know how.

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Speaker 3: To do it entertaining, polarized kind of you know, similar

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Speaker 3: ways to describe the same thing. Someone from the State

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Speaker 3: Department said that you have made this successful transition from

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Speaker 3: being a celebrity into an influential public figure and statesman

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Speaker 3: who has trusted respectful to that person. Where are they

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Speaker 3: Daniel R. Russell?

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Speaker 4: Okay, he was my boss, so that's really good.

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Speaker 3: Okay, well that's a pretty good performance review. He said

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Speaker 3: that you were trusted, respected, lights and listens to. How

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Speaker 3: important was that transition for you?

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Speaker 4: Well, I don't, I mean, I don't. I just think

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Speaker 4: of myself as me, so I just I you know,

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Speaker 4: it's been incredibly rewarding to work with people in the

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Speaker 4: State Department. I really admire and respect what they do,

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Speaker 4: and people are doing it for their entire career, their

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Speaker 4: whole life, serving our country, so I've only been doing

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Speaker 4: it a short time, so I feel like I have

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Speaker 4: a lot to learn from all of them. And I

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Speaker 4: don't think of myself. I mean, I just you know,

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Speaker 4: when I worked at the Department of Education in New

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Speaker 4: York City, it's really just about kind of where you

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Speaker 4: are at that time and what you can do what

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Speaker 4: to sort of move things forward and leave them better

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Speaker 4: than you found it. So if I can do that,

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Speaker 4: I would be really happy with my time in government.

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Speaker 3: You went to the Solomon Islands last year, and you

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Speaker 3: said it was an extremely personal experience. Give me some

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Speaker 3: context as to why that meant so much.

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Speaker 4: Well, we're looking back in time here, but in the

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Speaker 4: Second World War, my father served in the Pacific and

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Speaker 4: was on a pet boat patrolling in the Solomon Islands

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Speaker 4: which was sunk by a Japanese destroyer and the crew.

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Speaker 4: It burst into flames and it was assumed that all

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Speaker 4: of them had died, and so he swam the crew

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Speaker 4: to shore, where they hit out for five days. Because

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Speaker 4: there was kind of Japanese patrols in the area. I

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Speaker 4: was really dangerous, and he swam out every night to

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Speaker 4: try to get help, but they weren't really looking for

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Speaker 4: them because they had seen this flaming explosion. But there

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Speaker 4: were two Solomon Island scouts who were canoeing and spotted them,

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Speaker 4: and he carved a message on a coconut and took

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Speaker 4: it to They took it to the Australian Coast Watcher

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Speaker 4: who was on a nearby island, who then arranged rescue

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Speaker 4: for him and the surviving members of the crew. Two

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Speaker 4: of them had died. So you know, I wouldn't be

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Speaker 4: here and our whole family story wouldn't have happened if

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Speaker 4: it weren't for those scouts and the Australian Coastwatcher. So

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Speaker 4: I really am cognizant of that every day, how lucky

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Speaker 4: I am and how grateful I am. But going to

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Speaker 4: the battle commemoration, which is the eightieth anniversary, I had

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Speaker 4: a chance to meet the daughter of the Solomon scout

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Speaker 4: who was there too, and it was just a very

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Speaker 4: emotional moment where history kind of telescopes and becomes personal

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Speaker 4: and you realize that you know, there are these moments

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Speaker 4: and these relationships over time that are you know, change

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Speaker 4: your life and history. In this case, when I was

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Speaker 4: in Japan, I met the widow of the Japanese destroyer

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Speaker 4: captain who had sunk the boat and who my father

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Speaker 4: had corresponded with in the fifties as part of this

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Speaker 4: effort at reconciliation between our countries. So I think that

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Speaker 4: this process of working together to increase in our understanding

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Speaker 4: and avoid conflict is really the most important thing I

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Speaker 4: could be doing.

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Speaker 3: I did a big search way back through the YouTube archives,

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Speaker 3: and I found an interview that you gave in two

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Speaker 3: thousand and seven in West Palm County and a seven

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Speaker 3: year old was interviewing.

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Speaker 4: Oh. I remember, he was so cute.

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Speaker 3: He was so cute, and he asked you, what do

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Speaker 3: you do for fun? And you gave the worst answer

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Speaker 3: I've ever heard. You said, I campaigned for President Obama

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Speaker 3: for fun. What's the real answer?

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Speaker 4: That was really fun?

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Speaker 3: I'm sure it was. He's had a very long tenure

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Speaker 3: as president now and you can't do that anymore. So

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Speaker 3: what do you do for fun?

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Speaker 4: Now? I like to go to a podcast and talk

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Speaker 4: to feel for fun. That's really what I would, you know,

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Speaker 4: if I had, if I just had a you know,

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Speaker 4: an empty day, I'd say, could I be on a podcast.

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Speaker 3: Talking to talking to people through their headphones? I'm sure

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Speaker 3: we've got listeners walking though.

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Speaker 4: No. I tell you, I've done so many fun things here.

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Speaker 4: I've been rowing on like Burley Griffin I have. I'm

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Speaker 4: getting an em mountain bike. It's going to be ready

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Speaker 4: next week. I have done lots. I biked from like

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Speaker 4: George back to Canberra, and so I like to be outside.

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Speaker 4: I like to go swimming. I love to be with

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Speaker 4: my kids. I have two dogs here, so that is

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Speaker 4: also really fun. And you know, at home there's you know,

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Speaker 4: I have obviously friends and family stuff Like that.

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Speaker 3: Bonus question from me because I'm feeling lucky. I also

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Speaker 3: read that Neil Diamonds sung Sweet Carolina may have been

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Speaker 3: inspired by your name. It actually was about his wife,

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Speaker 3: but his wife had a two syllable name. Is am

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Speaker 3: I getting this story right?

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Speaker 4: Well, you obviously know a lot more about it than

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Speaker 4: I do, but go ahead. I'm sure your audience is fascinated.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's kind of a bit of a pub classic, yeah, no.

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Speaker 4: And a sports stadium classic too.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's funny you say that because my football team

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Speaker 3: is the Sydney Swans in the AFL, and at quarter

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Speaker 3: time at every single home game, thirty thousand people sing

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Speaker 3: Sweet Caroline.

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Speaker 4: I think I better go.

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Speaker 3: So I was wondering if you'd like I've organized tickets.

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Speaker 3: I was wondering if you'd like to go with me.

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Speaker 4: I would love to go with you. You have to

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Speaker 4: come to Fenway Park in Boston because they sing it

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Speaker 4: at the Red Sox games also, so you'll get Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I can just you know, go back and forth.

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Speaker 4: I feel really good.

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Speaker 3: If diplomacy over Sweet Caroline is the way that we

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Speaker 3: have to do it, then that's the way it's going

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Speaker 3: to be.

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Speaker 4: And I also heard there's a a school on camera

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Speaker 4: where they sing it too, So I'm going to go.

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Speaker 4: And I think the teacher is maybe the teacher of

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Speaker 4: the year for all her humanitarian work.

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Speaker 3: So's everwhere Ambassador Kennedy's Teacher of the Year award goes

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Speaker 3: to the Sweet Caroline anthem singer. Ambassador, thank you so

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Speaker 3: much for joining us. I really appreciating me. That's all

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Speaker 3: we've got time for today on the Daily OS, But

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Speaker 3: do make sure to let us know if there's topics

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Speaker 3: you want us to be tackling this year. We really

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Speaker 3: want to make this podcast the space for all of

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Speaker 3: us to come together and talk about the news in

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Speaker 3: a non judgmental, jargon free zone, and part of that

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Speaker 3: is you telling us what you want to hear. Have

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Speaker 3: a fantastic start to the week. If you're down at

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Speaker 3: the Aussie Open, make sure to come and say hi.

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Speaker 3: We're at the Pride Hub. Until then, have a great day.