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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 1: The time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now Here, I am paddling around in beautiful water, watching

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Speaker 2: the sunrise and catching waves, and it's not fair that

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Speaker 2: I'm doing this so often.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Okay, missus, Happy Families. We are at the end of

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Speaker 2: another week. I'll do a bit it tomorrow. Welcome to

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Speaker 2: the Happy Families Podcast. For those of you who are

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Speaker 2: new here, we're so glad to have you along. Every Friday,

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Speaker 2: we get intentional about our parenting. What we've learned, what

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Speaker 2: we haven't learned, or sorry, what we've learned, what we regret,

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Speaker 2: what we could do better, or what we've actually nailed,

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Speaker 2: and we're so pleased about it. So that's the context

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Speaker 2: in which we're operating. Now. A couple of things just

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Speaker 2: before we dive into this, Kylie. As always, correspondence has

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Speaker 2: been on the increase at podcasts podcasts at Happy families

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Speaker 2: dot com dot Au. Got a really cool message that

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Speaker 2: came through from Natalie, who's been doing some research around

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Speaker 2: that whole alpha mum thing on Instagram. I interviewed Elouise Jermis,

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Speaker 2: she's a PhD candidate, just in the last week or

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Speaker 2: so about mums who are being affected by what they

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Speaker 2: see on Instagram, and her research basically said it doesn't

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Speaker 2: really make a huge difference. But Natalie added to it,

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Speaker 2: and she said, I did my thesis on this last year,

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Speaker 2: hopefully coming up for publication soon. Just wanted to note

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Speaker 2: that I found it was the level of investment in

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Speaker 2: Instagram that affected mother's parenting self efficacy. The more invested

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Speaker 2: you are and what you're seeing on Instagram, the worse

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Speaker 2: you feel about your parenting. And what she also Hohler

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Speaker 2: was the more you are involved in social comparison and

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Speaker 2: the more you subscribe to the intensive mothering ideology, the

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Speaker 2: more it impacts on your ability to feel good about

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Speaker 2: what you're doing as a parent. So, in a nutshell, relax, breathe,

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Speaker 2: stop inhaling Instagram, and you're probably going to do okay.

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Speaker 1: I love that Natalie shared that because I often find

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Speaker 1: that with research projects, they're just they're so narrow their viewpoint.

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Speaker 1: You know, what they're trying to prove is so row

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Speaker 1: and literally by just stepping outside of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: half an inch you'll see that there is definitely correlations

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Speaker 1: in different areas well.

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Speaker 2: That's the nature of science, inch by inch, centimeter by centimeter,

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Speaker 2: just one small tweak at a time, because it's so

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Speaker 2: hard to do really great science. So, Natalie, thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for your email. There's been a handful of

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Speaker 2: others with people saying how much they love you, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: but we'll just you.

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Speaker 1: Haven't shared them with me.

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Speaker 2: Holy your head's getting so big every time. You're actually saying,

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Speaker 2: can we record the podcast? Can I host this one?

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Speaker 2: I think that I should be in charge this time. Actually,

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Speaker 2: we're looking at giving this happy family some extra podcast responsibilities, folks,

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Speaker 2: so sit tight for that. Anyway, let's talk. I'll do

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Speaker 2: about it tomorrow, Kylie. What would you say this week

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Speaker 2: has been for you? What have you learned? What do

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Speaker 2: you regret? Or what did you just get right?

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Speaker 1: I'm not actually sure if I've shared this on the

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Speaker 1: podcast or not, but a couple of weeks ago, one

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Speaker 1: of our girls was talking to the school counselor, and

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Speaker 1: the school counselor suggested if she was really struggling to

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Speaker 1: express the feelings, that she should write a letter. She

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Speaker 1: came home and she'd written a letter to express how

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Speaker 1: she was feeling about things that were happening in the family,

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Speaker 1: and she kind of just shoved it in my hand

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Speaker 1: as she walked past as she'd come in through the door,

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Speaker 1: and I just thought it was a school note, and

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Speaker 1: so kind of was holding it. And then I went

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Speaker 1: to put it down and realized that I kind of

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Speaker 1: hadn't given it any thought, and so I kind of

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Speaker 1: just flicked it open, realized what it was, and went, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: this needs time, So I put it down. I finished

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Speaker 1: what I was doing, and then I spent a few

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Speaker 1: minutes just perusing it and reading it before I called

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Speaker 1: her into the bedroom. And I could feel myself getting

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Speaker 1: worked up because there was a letter with a lot

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Speaker 1: of accusations in it of all of my misdemeanors and

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Speaker 1: things that I was getting wrong. And all I could

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Speaker 1: see was how ungrateful she was that she wasn't recognizing

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Speaker 1: all of the effort that I was doing. But a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things that came out was just her

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Speaker 1: feeling like she was being treated differently to her sisters.

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Speaker 1: And we were to have this beautiful conversation and help

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Speaker 1: each other to see the perspectives that were being presented,

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Speaker 1: but that flowed onto a really, really challenging moment earlier

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Speaker 1: this week where the two girls that are struggling the

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Speaker 1: most in their sibling relationship had a pretty significant altercation.

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Speaker 1: Just before I got back from my morning walk where

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Speaker 1: I'd grounded myself, I was scented, feeling like I was

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Speaker 1: going to have a great day, and I walked into

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Speaker 1: tears and a lot of angry words, and at first

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Speaker 1: I kind of stormed in, and I got the big

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Speaker 1: person in trouble in the relationship and told her that,

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Speaker 1: you know, this was not going to happen again, and

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Speaker 1: she was going to have to quit her job because

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Speaker 1: she obviously can't cope with the late nights and we

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Speaker 1: were just not going to do life like this any longer.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: And she obviously fought back, and there was lots of

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Speaker 1: angry words expressed, and I walked away, and I thought,

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Speaker 1: what can I do here? Because this is just not

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Speaker 1: getting any better? And I knew that I hadn't dealt

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Speaker 1: with it right, but I didn't. I didn't know what

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Speaker 1: to do. So I asked the two girls to not

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Speaker 1: enter into the same room together, to split up and

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Speaker 1: do what they had to do to get ready for school.

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Speaker 1: And then I just was getting ready and I realized

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Speaker 1: that I had just finished reading something that I thought

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Speaker 1: would be really helpful. So I called the big person

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Speaker 1: into the room and I sat down with her, and

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Speaker 1: I said, I want to read you something. So I've

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Speaker 1: just finished reading a book by Oprah Winfrey. And she

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Speaker 1: shares her closing words with her mum just before she

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Speaker 1: passed away. Anyone who knows Oprah Winfrey's life knows that

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Speaker 1: it did not particularly go to plan or She lived

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Speaker 1: a childhood of challenge, especially in her relationship with her mum,

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Speaker 1: which was challenging until literally the day she died. She

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Speaker 1: was wrong to tell that her mom was ready to

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Speaker 1: pass away and that she needed to come, and she

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Speaker 1: couldn't find the words. She sat there with her for

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Speaker 1: a whole day, and she couldn't find the words to

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Speaker 1: articulate to her, and so she left and the last

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Speaker 1: thing she said to her was, well, I'll be seeing you,

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Speaker 1: and walked out the door, and she said that she

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Speaker 1: recognized as she was sitting on the plane flying back

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Speaker 1: to wherever she was flying back to, that she hadn't

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Speaker 1: finished what she needed to finish, and so she turned around,

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Speaker 1: and she flew back, and she spent another day with

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Speaker 1: her mom, and she said, still the words didn't come

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Speaker 1: to her until finally she was able to use music

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Speaker 1: as an entrance, and in the closing, you know, moments

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Speaker 1: with her mum, she recognized that, in spite of the

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Speaker 1: fact that her mama wasn't who she wanted her to be,

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Speaker 1: her mom had done the best with what she had,

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Speaker 1: and she was able to offer her grace in that

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Speaker 1: moment and let her know that she understood that as

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Speaker 1: a young girl who'd fallen pregnant didn't have any support,

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Speaker 1: that that must have been overwhelming, and that there were

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Speaker 1: probably lots of people who told her to give up

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Speaker 1: a child and all of these things, and she was

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Speaker 1: able to share and articulate that with her mom and

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Speaker 1: say goodbye to her. And so that might seem like

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Speaker 1: a really long winded way of kind of coming back

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Speaker 1: to my children who are really struggling. But as I

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Speaker 1: that with my daughter, I watched her soften and I said,

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Speaker 1: as I'm reading this, can you see any correlation between

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Speaker 1: what Oprah experienced and what you're experiencing now with your sister?

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Speaker 1: And she kind of looked at me, and she said,

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Speaker 1: I need to forgive her and I said what does

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Speaker 1: that look like? And I said, and what is it

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Speaker 1: that you need to forgive her for? And she said,

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Speaker 1: she says lots of really horrible things to me and

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Speaker 1: it really hurts. And so we talked about that some more,

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Speaker 1: and so I suggested to her that what she needed

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Speaker 1: to do was actually try and see her sister as

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Speaker 1: someone who was trying and someone who was full of

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Speaker 1: her own limitations, just like Oprah has was able to

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Speaker 1: get to a point in her life where she recognized

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Speaker 1: that her mum was working from a set of limitations.

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Speaker 1: And so as we talked about that some more, I

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Speaker 1: kind of just saw the cogs starting to turn and

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Speaker 1: her starting to And then the most beautiful moment that

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Speaker 1: took place when I actually pulled out a family photo

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Speaker 1: album and it is filled with photos of her and

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Speaker 1: her sister literally just enveloped in love. Every photo is

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Speaker 1: full of these two little kids with these massive grins.

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Speaker 1: And I said, what do you see in these photos?

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Speaker 1: And she said, we used to be friends and I said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you did, and you still both want to be friends,

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Speaker 1: but what's actually happening is you both feel like you're trying,

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Speaker 1: but when each of you tries, the other one puts

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Speaker 1: up a brick wall, and so you both feel like

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Speaker 1: you're trying, and you both feel like you're not being

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Speaker 1: heard and you're not being met with the love and

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Speaker 1: attention that you desire. What would happen if you both

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Speaker 1: started working together? How would that impact things? So it

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Speaker 1: was a really hard conversation, and it was one that

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Speaker 1: meant the girls didn't get to school on time. And

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Speaker 1: I finally said to it, do you mind if I

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Speaker 1: bring a sister? And she's like, I don't want to

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Speaker 1: talk to her, and I said, I really feel like

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Speaker 1: if we're going to get anywhere with this, we need

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Speaker 1: to bring her in. So I brought her in, and

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Speaker 1: obviously she didn't have all of the big lead up

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Speaker 1: to it, and so she was very, very resistant. But

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Speaker 1: as we continued to talk and I'd continued to help

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Speaker 1: her recognize and see that this was not her big

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Speaker 1: sister's fault, nor was it the little sister's fault. This

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Speaker 1: was a vicious circle that was going in such force

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Speaker 1: that unless somebody was willing to break the cycle, it

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Speaker 1: was going to continue, and that each one of them

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Speaker 1: played a part in that and by the end of it,

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Speaker 1: I asked each of them to tell me if there

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Speaker 1: was one thing they wanted their sister to know, what

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Speaker 1: would it be. And the younger one looked at me

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Speaker 1: and she said that I love her and a big sister,

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Speaker 1: and she said that I'm trying. And they were able

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Speaker 1: to go after school in a calm and loving manner,

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Speaker 1: and it just made me remember that this stuff's hard.

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Speaker 1: It's hard for all of us. As a parent, I

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Speaker 1: just want to come in and fix it and stop

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Speaker 1: all of the crazy from going. But it actually took

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Speaker 1: a lot of energy and a lot of time to

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Speaker 1: sit in their hard because it's really hard for them

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Speaker 1: right now and they're both really hurting and help them

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Speaker 1: to recognize and see that Number one, I hear and

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Speaker 1: value them, and I see their pain. But in an

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Speaker 1: effort to help them see each other's pain, hopefully they

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Speaker 1: can start to heal the relationship together.

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Speaker 2: Such hard work, such hard work. So for anyone who's

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Speaker 2: stuck with us for the whole story, I guess the

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Speaker 2: real take home message is you can't quick fix this stuff,

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Speaker 2: and every time you try to is like putting a

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Speaker 2: band aid on a bleeding gash and the band aid

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Speaker 2: might hold it together a little bit, but pretty soon

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Speaker 2: it's going to bleed through the band aid, and the

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Speaker 2: band aid will fall off because it gets sodden and

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Speaker 2: you've actually got to get in and do the surgery.

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Speaker 2: And surgery requires specialty assistance, and it requires time, and

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Speaker 2: it requires the right environment to do surgery. Well, you've

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Speaker 2: got to really be careful about it. And I think

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Speaker 2: what you've just done is perform some remarkable emotional surgery.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad I was in the surf and didn't

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Speaker 2: have to deal with it.

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Speaker 1: Thanks. You know. The whole reason I lost it was

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Speaker 1: because you weren't there, and I was like, I just

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Speaker 1: need justin here so he can kind of help work

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Speaker 1: through this with me. And when I realized you were

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Speaker 1: not coming home, I had to suck it up and

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Speaker 1: pull it from somewhere.

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Speaker 2: Is it amazing what we can do when we have to.

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Speaker 2: It's funny because I was going to use my older

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Speaker 2: better tomorrow after the break talk about how good it's

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Speaker 2: been to go surfing this week because I haven't surfed

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Speaker 2: for so long. I need a new story. It's coming

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Speaker 2: up next. If you have more than one child, there's

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Speaker 2: a simple truth. They're going to fight, they're going to compete,

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Speaker 2: and they're going to have relationship troubles. But the real

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Speaker 2: secret isn't how to stop the fighting, it's how to

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Speaker 2: teach them kindness. The teaching kids this webinar will help

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Speaker 2: you to do just that, but also help them build

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Speaker 2: lifelong sibling bonds that lead to lifelong friendships. Check out

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Speaker 2: Teaching Kids Kindness at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 1: poor parent who just wants answers now. And yes, you

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Speaker 1: have been surfing quite a.

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Speaker 2: Bit this week. There hasn't been any surf for about

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Speaker 2: four weeks, and We've had some proper waves this week,

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Speaker 2: so I've taken advantage of it. But my older Better

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Speaker 2: Tomorrow is actually a reflection on that. I'm not going

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Speaker 2: to change my story. I have been so fortunate to

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Speaker 2: be able to duck down to the beach almost every

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Speaker 2: morning this week and have a couple of hours in

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Speaker 2: the water, which is such a such a luxury, such

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Speaker 2: a privilege, such an incredible thing, not because of where

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Speaker 2: we well, partly because where we live and so on.

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Speaker 2: But I'm going to say it's because of you and

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Speaker 2: the extraordinary willingness that you show to support me. My

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Speaker 2: older better tomorrow is actually just how much I need

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Speaker 2: to repay you. While I was in the surf on

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Speaker 2: one of those mornings, I thought to myself, this is

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Speaker 2: so unfair. I've left my wife at home to deal

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Speaker 2: with all of the chaos of the children and they're

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Speaker 2: crazy fights, and do all the deep emotional work with

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Speaker 2: the kids when things aren't going right, and here I

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Speaker 2: am paddling around in beautiful water, watching the sun rise

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Speaker 2: and catching waves, and it's not fair that I'm doing

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Speaker 2: this so often. So my older better tomorrow is I

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Speaker 2: actually need to work with you on how you can

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Speaker 2: have those kinds of mornings and I can carry the

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Speaker 2: load a little bit more because it kind of just

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Speaker 2: doesn't feel right, even though I love it, and even

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Speaker 2: though I don't want to change, I know that I

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Speaker 2: probably need to do better for you. And so my

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Speaker 2: thought was, I wonder if there are any dads who

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Speaker 2: will listening to this, who kind of do get to

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Speaker 2: please themselves every Saturday morning for their goal, for their

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Speaker 2: bike ride, or their footy or their whatever. I wonder

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Speaker 2: what would happen if they just said, you know what, Honey,

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Speaker 2: this Saturday, instead of me doing my thing, which I

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Speaker 2: do every single Saturday, this Saturday, why don't you organize

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Speaker 2: something for you and I'll do the heavy lifting at home.

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Speaker 2: So that's my older better tomorrow Tomorrow morning. I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to go surfing unless it's really good. I no,

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm not going to go surfing at all.

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Speaker 2: And you get to go and have some fun and

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Speaker 2: maybe we can balance things out a little bit more.

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Speaker 1: Thanks Son, Okay.

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Speaker 2: We really hope that the ideas that we've shared in

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Speaker 2: this podcast are helpful and that they make a difference

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Speaker 2: in your life. The Happy Families podcast is produced by

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Speaker 2: Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is the executive

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Speaker 2: producer of the Happy Families podcast and for more information

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Speaker 2: about how to make your family happier, we would encourage

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Speaker 2: you to visit our Facebook page Dr Justin Colson's Happy Families,

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Speaker 2: where you'll find all the information about our upcoming webinar

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Speaker 2: about boys and their screens. We're talking gaming, We're talking

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Speaker 2: gambling and pornography. Webinar coming up in just a couple

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Speaker 2: of weeks. Details at the Happy Families Facebook page or

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Speaker 2: at happy families dot com. Do a