1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: We know that. Last week the big news was the 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,680 Speaker 1: appointment of Martin Dole APM as the fifteenth Police Commissioner, 3 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: who is going to be based in Alice Springs. The 4 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: Chief Minister telling us on the show last week that 5 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: she's confident Commissioner Doll is going to take the force 6 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: forward in the interests of the community and frontline officers. 7 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:22,159 Speaker 1: But while the Police Association have congratulated mister Dole on 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,800 Speaker 1: his appointment, they've raised serious concerns over how it happened. 9 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 1: The Chief Minister, Leafanocchiaro joins me in the studio, good 10 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: morning to your Chief Minister. 11 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:33,880 Speaker 2: Mining Katie, and tell your listeners. 12 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 1: Now, Chief the Association have of course acknowledged that Commissioner 13 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 1: Dole is a respected, long serving police officer, But Nathan Finn, 14 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: the President, says the direct appointment, made without a transparent 15 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: recruitment process, undermines public trust and ignores the recent inquiry 16 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: recommendations into senior police appointments. I mean, are you concerned 17 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: that the direct appointment ignores those inquiry recommendations? 18 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 3: No, Katian, it's actually that' quite the opposite. So the 19 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 3: blow inquiry, you know, went on for a very long 20 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 3: time and we've talked about that. It went longer than 21 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,120 Speaker 3: anyone expected, but what it did do is allow us 22 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 3: to move forward. 23 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,039 Speaker 2: It allowed us to draw a line in the stand. Now. 24 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 3: It has six recommendations which we're moving through very very quickly. 25 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 2: We've committed to all of them and they will be done. 26 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 3: And one of the big takeaways from BLOW was that 27 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 3: people need to be appointed on merit for both the 28 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 3: role and the rank, because it's not just you know, 29 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 3: it's not just sometimes about appointing the smartest person in 30 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 3: the room. It's about do they have all of the 31 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:32,559 Speaker 3: qualities you need to do that job now. Martin Doele 32 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 3: is a veteran police officer. He's served in the Northern 33 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 3: Territory Police Force for twenty nine years. He's a born 34 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 3: and bred Territorian. He's served in just about every role 35 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 3: across the entire force, in every region, and he has 36 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 3: done an exceptional job as Acting Police Commissioner for the 37 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 3: last seven months now. I was surprised and a bit 38 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 3: insulted on behalf of the men and women of our 39 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 3: police force to see the NTPA come out and say, oh, 40 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 3: maybe someone better from interstate. 41 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: Could have got it. 42 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: I just don't even That's what they were trying to 43 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: say is that this is a direct appointment. So they're 44 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,360 Speaker 1: questioning whether it undermines public trust given the fact that 45 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:13,040 Speaker 1: we've just had this inquiry and you know then you've 46 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:14,840 Speaker 1: come out and you've said there was no better person 47 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: in the country for the role. But how do you 48 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: know that when you've skipped that process. 49 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 3: Well, because the Chief Minister appoints the police Commissioner like 50 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 3: I do a number of other roles. We've just had 51 00:02:24,639 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: the Prime Minister appoint the Austrian Federal Police Commissioner. There 52 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 3: was a very large into you know, sixty Minutes did 53 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 3: a big story on her last night, So this is 54 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 3: very very normal practice. Now I don't believe that an 55 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 3: interstate person should be the Police Commissioner of the Northern 56 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 3: Territory Police Force. We have a very unique operating environment 57 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 3: and so I'm thrilled with Martin Dole. In the seven 58 00:02:46,120 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 3: months he's been acting commissioner, he has designed and delivered 59 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 3: OC Spray, designed and is rolling out police Projective Services officers, 60 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,839 Speaker 3: and has delivered the biggest payor deal in twenty years 61 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 3: for our cops. So he's the man for the job 62 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 3: and it's it's going to be fantastic moving force. 63 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: I mean taking into account what you've said that you 64 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: believe a territory and is the best possible person for 65 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: that role. How do you know there's not someone else 66 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: within the ranks who may have been fantastic for the 67 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 1: job as well if you didn't go through that process. 68 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 3: Look, we have fantastic men and women in blue. And 69 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 3: at the end of the day, the Chief Minister makes 70 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,519 Speaker 3: this decision. It's based on merit for both the role 71 00:03:20,600 --> 00:03:23,360 Speaker 3: and the rank. He I want continuity and certainty for 72 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 3: our force. He is in that role and now was 73 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 3: seamlessly continue in that role. And that is the decision 74 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 3: made in the best interests of the Northern Territory Police 75 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 3: Force and the Northern Territory community as we move forward 76 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 3: with this strong law and order agenda. 77 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: I mean, there does seem to be a bit of 78 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: a rift at the moment between you or your government 79 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: and the Northern Territory Police Association. Is that a worry 80 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: from your perspective given the fact that you know largely 81 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 1: your government's agenda requires the Northern Territory Police Force to 82 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 1: deliver a lot of these law changes and a lot 83 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: of these changes that really aimed at trying to curb 84 00:04:02,240 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: the issues of crime. 85 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're doing an amazing job. 86 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 3: I've been on the ground in Alice Springs a couple 87 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 3: of times this week, Katie and meeting with our police 88 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: on every occasion, going out on the street with them, 89 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: and they're really pleased to see. And they actually put 90 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 3: it back to me and said, we're really proud to 91 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,840 Speaker 3: see that the suggestions we've made directly to you are 92 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 3: actually now reflected in law. So that work continues, and 93 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 3: they are doing an amazing job. We're seeing some big reductions. 94 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 3: For example, I went and visited at locksmith who works 95 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 3: twenty four to seven in Alice, and he has had 96 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 3: since Christmas a reduction in crime related callouts overnight by 97 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:37,600 Speaker 3: eighty percent, consistently throughout. 98 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:40,680 Speaker 1: This entire that it's gone down eighty percent totally. 99 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 3: He has the number of callouts he's doing has dropped. 100 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 3: Crime related call outs has dropped eighty percent. So plenty 101 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: more work to do. This is not job done, but 102 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 3: you can see that there is a trend starting to 103 00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 3: happen where we're getting on top of this. So we 104 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 3: back our men and women in blue. We respect the 105 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 3: Police Association. They have a very very important job to 106 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 3: do and we're not always going to see eye to 107 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,160 Speaker 3: eye and their jobs to be that advocacy body, and 108 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 3: that's how the system. 109 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 1: Works, all right. I want to move along because there 110 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: is a lot to cover off on this morning. Now. 111 00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: Last week news emerged that the Northern Territory opposition leader 112 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: had missus the white car show Fur service for personal use, 113 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: attending multiple social events and medical appointments. We then interviewed 114 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: Joe Hearsey this time last Monday, and she confirmed that 115 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,039 Speaker 1: she too had used that white vehicle on at least 116 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,400 Speaker 1: one occasion in a way which really isn't what the 117 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: public would expect. I mean, Chief Minister, how often do 118 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 1: you think this white car service is being misused? And 119 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: does there need to be a look into this look. 120 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 2: We've double and triple check Katie. 121 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,279 Speaker 3: Obviously there's been a couple of instances there that have 122 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 3: fowled to meet community expectations. And it's good to see 123 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 3: the two members immediately pay back the money and front up. 124 00:05:53,240 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 1: So Joe Hearsey's paid that money back. 125 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 3: Both Selena Yuvo and Joehersey. You know where you know, 126 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 3: we're all human people make mistakes, but at the end 127 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 3: of the day, there's a very high expectation on the 128 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 3: use of public resources, and so you know, we're very 129 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 3: confident that this is all being done in accordance with 130 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 3: the rules. 131 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 1: How much did Joe pay back do you know? Oh? 132 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: I think it was about forty five dollars. 133 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Now, in terms of the rules and guidelines for 134 00:06:18,600 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: the use of those white cars, are they very clear 135 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 1: rules and guidelines? Why is there like why are their 136 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: blueodlines here that? 137 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not really sure, And of course we've reinforced 138 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: to everybody what those clear rules are. Well, yeah, you 139 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 3: can't use it for party political activities and you can't 140 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 3: use it for personal activities like going to birthday parties 141 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:39,400 Speaker 3: and doctor's appointments. 142 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 2: So that's very clear. 143 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 3: It's all been reinforced and reminded and strengthened, and so 144 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:46,239 Speaker 3: I'm very confident moving forward. 145 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 1: So are you are you prepared to release those rules publicly? 146 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: They're an internal document like a million others. Katie and 147 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 3: I think it was interesting during estimates. I really noticed, 148 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 3: you know, there was lots of questions around internal policies 149 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 3: right across government that don't get provided. But people can 150 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: be confident in the use of the service, and that 151 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 3: people have put their hand and said, yep, I stuffed up. 152 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 3: I've paid it back, I'm really sorry, and it won't 153 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 3: be done again. 154 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: Well, look, they shouldn't. You shouldn't have to worry about that. Like, 155 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: this is the thing. I think it's a bit embarrassing 156 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: when people are using it, you know, for their own 157 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: for their own sort of luxury. I will say, because 158 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: it is a real privilege to be able to use 159 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: those white cars. But also, like I get the argument 160 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: for Bush members when they come into town that it 161 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: is more difficult for them to you know, to maybe 162 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: hire a car or whatever. But they also get four 163 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: hundred dollars a day, is my understanding, and travel allout. 164 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: So I just think it's bs that then you can't 165 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: go within the rules. Rules are there for a reason reason. 166 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: Have you ever misused the white car? 167 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 3: No, Katie, it's all in accordance with the rules, so 168 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 3: as the rest of the team. And look, it's unfortunate 169 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: it's happened, and you know what, everyone's pulled their sucks 170 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: up and we just we plow on. 171 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 1: So just to be just to sort of you know, 172 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 1: to finalize this. You're not prepared to make those rules public. 173 00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 3: No, okat they're they're an internal based document like many others. 174 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: But you are one hundred percent confidence that you and 175 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: nobody else on your team of missus. 176 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:08,240 Speaker 2: Size I am. 177 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: So how do you restore that confidence to the Northern 178 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: Territory public, who, to be really blunt about it, think 179 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:19,200 Speaker 1: that ministers, the Opposition leader others might be just having 180 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: a lend here of Territorians. Yeah. 181 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 3: Look, I think the instances speak for themselves. They've put 182 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 3: their hand up, they've paid it back, they made a mistake, 183 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 3: We've reinforced the rules, checked everything. 184 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: You know, it is what it is. I can't you know. 185 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: It happened. So it's happened. 186 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 3: We've dealt with it, and it's just it's about moving 187 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 3: forward appropriately, all right. 188 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about an email that's been 189 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:43,560 Speaker 1: sent to the Prime Minister and also to you and 190 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:47,560 Speaker 1: all of the other chief ministers and premiers across Australia. 191 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: Now it's from the Women's Forum Australia. They have written 192 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 1: that they say, we've profound concern for the safety and 193 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: dignity of women incarcerated in our nation's prisons. Following a 194 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: series of deeply troubling cases that have come to light 195 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: across multiple jurisdictions which involve male offenders who identify as 196 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: women being housed in female facilities. Now I've read a 197 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 1: couple of these stories out throughout my whip around the 198 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: nation over the last week, and their woful. A couple 199 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: of weeks ago, The Australian was reporting that a trans 200 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: identified male offender who sexually abused his own five year 201 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:26,920 Speaker 1: old daughter had been placed in a facility in Victoria. Now, disturbingly, 202 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: the court accepted arguments that the offender's gender dysorphia and 203 00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: struggles with transition diminished his culpability, and that he committed 204 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: the abuse in part to be validated as a woman. 205 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,120 Speaker 1: Now when I've read that story, I felt sick in 206 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: the guts. It is absolutely woeful that anybody's sentence against 207 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:52,319 Speaker 1: their own child, male, female, whatever, would have any kind 208 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: of justification around it. But then on Friday, The Australian 209 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,199 Speaker 1: also revealed an even more shocking story from South Australia 210 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: where inside a poort Agusta prison which accommodates both male 211 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: and female offenders, a female prisoner was failed in every 212 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:11,080 Speaker 1: way imaginable. The letter states by the state's correctional services, 213 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:13,959 Speaker 1: she was placed in a cell with a notoriously violent 214 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 1: trans identified male offender and was subjected to a horrific 215 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: sexual assault by him. Now they're just a couple. That's 216 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,199 Speaker 1: of the incidents that have been listed here. Presumably you've 217 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: received this letter. 218 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have received this letter, and we move very 219 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 3: quickly to confirm with corrections. And I can absolutely attest 220 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 3: to every territory and that trans if you are born agenda, 221 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:38,360 Speaker 3: that is the prison you go in. So our women's 222 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 3: prison have women only. Trans people are not in our 223 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 3: women's part of our prison, and in fact, we're strengthening 224 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 3: that even further by of course moving ahead to build 225 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 3: the new women's prison, which will provide even better levels 226 00:10:51,480 --> 00:10:52,720 Speaker 3: of care to our women. 227 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:57,439 Speaker 1: And so if somebody transitions from male to female. 228 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 3: They will make the man's prison. Currently that is the rule, 229 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 3: and that rule will continue. We are not out of 230 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 3: their birth certificate, etc. 231 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: Says that they are female. 232 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 3: Well, look, I don't know the exact details on how 233 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 3: this stuff is worked out. I'm presuming chromosomes get involved, Katie. 234 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, if you're born 235 00:11:13,559 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 3: a bloke, you kind of men's prison, and we'll deal 236 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 3: with you there, but we do not mix across our 237 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:21,560 Speaker 3: prison system. 238 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:23,640 Speaker 1: I mean, in this letter, it says the incarceration of 239 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:28,239 Speaker 1: male offenders in women's prisons represents a national human rights crisis. 240 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 1: So what do you say to Territorians this morning on 241 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: this Yeah, and. 242 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 2: The letter is actually scathing. 243 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 3: It goes as far to say that this, you know, 244 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,040 Speaker 3: these types of laws that other states have where they 245 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 3: are allowing trends into other gender prisons, is actually this 246 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 3: ideologically driven law coming from state, you know, labor. 247 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:47,640 Speaker 2: It's basically call it out. 248 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 3: It's labor, state and federal governments running this social engineering agenda. 249 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 2: And that couldn't be further from what our government is about. Katie. 250 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:57,319 Speaker 2: This is just practical common sense. 251 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 3: It's not dissimilar to the argument around men in women's sport. 252 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:04,040 Speaker 3: And I think it's good that the Women's Forum have 253 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 3: stood up for women and said, hang on a second. 254 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 2: I mean, you know, women have been. 255 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:13,719 Speaker 3: Fighting for rights for decades, generations, Katie, And so no, 256 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 3: you will not be seeing trans men or women in 257 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 3: women's prison. 258 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: I mean, what do you say to anybody who who says, 259 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: you know that that's the wrong direction that you know people. Look, 260 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:29,680 Speaker 1: I've got I've got absolutely no issue with trans people 261 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: or form, no issue whatsoever. But I do start to 262 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,719 Speaker 1: have issue when we are having women's rights eroded as 263 00:12:38,760 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: a result. Now, the other thing that I'm really worried about, 264 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 1: or that I certainly worry about in reading some of 265 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 1: those different stories in the national media, is that you 266 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: have to make sure that women are safe, whether they're 267 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: in the prison, no matter where they are, they have 268 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: to be safe. And I think it is worth pointing 269 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: out that no matter what gender you are, that you 270 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,480 Speaker 1: know you find absolute creeps and people that are prepared 271 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:05,320 Speaker 1: to do the wrong thing, no matter where they're from, 272 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: no matter what their background. But I do think it 273 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:10,040 Speaker 1: is incredibly important that women are safe. 274 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, I agree with you totally, Katie. This is not 275 00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:16,559 Speaker 3: about discrimination. This is about safety. This is about understanding 276 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 3: the way someone is built, and at the end of 277 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 3: the day, you know people will be Your text line 278 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 3: is probably blowing up with all the I can just 279 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 3: imagine what Technie and Katie. But at the end of 280 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 3: the day, we're not into this nonsense in the territory 281 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:32,079 Speaker 3: my government. This is not what we are about if 282 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 3: you were born a man, you will go to male prison. 283 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 3: If you do the wrong thing, our cops will come 284 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 3: and get you and will happily find you a bed. Equally, 285 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:39,679 Speaker 3: if you're a woman and you do the wrong thing, 286 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 3: you'll end up in a woman's prison. But there will 287 00:13:41,320 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: be no blurring of those lines. There isn't and there 288 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:44,719 Speaker 3: won't be going forward. 289 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: All right. I want to ask you about a situation 290 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 1: that's been raised with me on numerous occasions out in 291 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,640 Speaker 1: Howard Springs. Now, last week I again spoke to a 292 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: resident in Howard Springs about their concerns relating to someone 293 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 1: in care who's been released by the courts on a 294 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: supervision order. Now, Dan told me the person was making 295 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: verbal threats and there appears to be no recourse for 296 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,040 Speaker 1: residents in the street. Now. He also said that this 297 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,200 Speaker 1: person was armed with a knife last week. Now it 298 00:14:13,400 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: follows on well from another situation that we'd spoken about 299 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,200 Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago, where a Darwin hostel manager 300 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 1: was allegedly kicked in the head multiple times by another 301 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: newly released prisoner who was also released into the community. Now, 302 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 1: this morning, we've got residents out in Howard Springs contacting us. 303 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: They're really really worried about this. What recourse is there 304 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: aside from calling the police, which most of the time 305 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: that's sort of after the fact, when more you know, 306 00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: like when more alleged defendings occurring. Like the last thing 307 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: anybody wants, right is for one of these, you know, 308 00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: one of these homes to change hands in their strat 309 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,400 Speaker 1: but to then wind up with somebody on a supervision 310 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 1: order with an ankle bracelet on who's continueanuously causing issues 311 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: and you're straighted towards not. 312 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really scary and certainly I've been listening to 313 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 3: the feedback from your listeners, Katie and Jared Mayley, the 314 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:11,640 Speaker 3: member for Nelson, is right across this issue. 315 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: It's been a very difficult space. 316 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 3: This is not an isolated incident, so I've had them 317 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,480 Speaker 3: in my electorate. I've got some issues we're working through 318 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 3: in the Northern suburbs as well, and at the end 319 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 3: of the day, we've got we're working with the federal 320 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 3: government around what does that accountability for ndis look like. Now, 321 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,239 Speaker 3: people deserve dignified care when they have mental health and 322 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 3: other issues, but people deserve to be safe as well, 323 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 3: and they deserve and have a right to quiet enjoyment 324 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 3: of their home. And so finding the balance on this 325 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 3: and finding the accountability on NDIS providers to be able 326 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 3: to be in a position to care for their client 327 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 3: and maintain that good order in the community is important, 328 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,479 Speaker 3: and that nut is not cracked yet, but it is significant. 329 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 3: This is not unfortunately, this is not an isolated issue. 330 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: No. And look, you know, for you and I, we've 331 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: got kids's got kids, got people yelling their f and 332 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,040 Speaker 1: seas down the street, threatening people, you know, doing signals 333 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: that they're gonna slit his throat while you're out with 334 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: your kids trying to get them for school to school. Right, 335 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,880 Speaker 1: it's not a key, it's absolutely appalling. So I suppose 336 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: what I'm trying to get to is, I know it 337 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 1: may be a federal government issue, but what can you 338 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: do or what can your government do to try and 339 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: help not only this family and the people in this street, 340 00:16:23,880 --> 00:16:27,040 Speaker 1: but others who might wind up in this situation? Because look, 341 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,080 Speaker 1: I just think to myself, if I was a judge, 342 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: would I be happy with this person living in mind? 343 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:31,400 Speaker 1: To me? 344 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 2: Exactly? 345 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: And you know those judges may well ask themselves that 346 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 1: may well think all right, this person seems so they're 347 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:39,720 Speaker 1: going to be safe to live in that street. 348 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:42,640 Speaker 3: But now when you wind up and they're not, what 349 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 3: recourse have you got? Yeah, look, I encourage everyone to 350 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 3: contact your local member. That might sound a bit, you 351 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 3: know what, like a fob off, It isn't. That is 352 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 3: important because the local members are the ones who keep 353 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 3: track of these issues, and they're the ones who raise 354 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 3: it to higher levels. So I want everyone contacting their 355 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 3: local member with details. We can then capture that and 356 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 3: will continue our work with the federal government. But you 357 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 3: know what, Gosling deserves a few phone calls and emails 358 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 3: about this because it's his bloody government at a federal 359 00:17:09,080 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 3: level that don't care about the territory. So I think 360 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,040 Speaker 3: a bit of advocacy to Luke and giving him a 361 00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:16,959 Speaker 3: bit of homework wouldn't go astray for him. And at 362 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,919 Speaker 3: the end of the day, you know, we're building our 363 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 3: new health eighteen bed help mental health. Ward went out 364 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 3: and visited that at ARDH the other day. But this 365 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 3: is really if these issues are going to be pushed 366 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 3: back on to NDIS, we have to be looking then well, 367 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 3: are these people equipped to be able to deal with 368 00:17:33,119 --> 00:17:33,879 Speaker 3: the client tell. 369 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 1: And if not, you know, then they shouldn't have the whole. 370 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 1: And to be really blunt about it, so how do 371 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,600 Speaker 1: we where are we they go? Well? Or how do 372 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,679 Speaker 1: we get that home taken out of their hands? And 373 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: if they're not able to manage somebody of fashion, right, 374 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 1: that's exactly right, And what is the answer to well, well, 375 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:49,680 Speaker 1: I don't have one, Katie, that's the problem. 376 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,920 Speaker 3: So that is a federal government issue. And as I said, 377 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 3: this is not an uncommon thing. I've got situations in 378 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 3: my electric two. So go see your local member. Get 379 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 3: Luke Gosling on the whole for this, because at the 380 00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 3: end of the day, federal labor need to listen. You know, 381 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 3: they only listen to their own team, it seems. 382 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: And well, I think on this we have to be constructive, 383 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: Like there's got to be constructive work here to sort 384 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: this issue out because it is not okay for those people. Look, 385 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 1: we are gonna have to wrap up. But what's on 386 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: the agenda this week in Parliament? Just very quickly. 387 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, we've got a big two weeks ahead, So we've 388 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 3: got some significant energy reform happening because labor has left 389 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 3: this space in a dog's breakfast and our focus is 390 00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 3: about the cheapest, most reliable energy for territory and so 391 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,840 Speaker 3: big changes there. Anti discrimination is coming back and getting 392 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,200 Speaker 3: done finally, and so we will. 393 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: Do you think you're going to get in trouble for 394 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: saying that you won't allow trans people into female prisons 395 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,679 Speaker 1: nap by who I don't know, the commissioner maybe like, 396 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:49,639 Speaker 1: is that seriously? Is that be a concern? 397 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: Oh no, how ridiculous. Absolutely not. 398 00:18:51,960 --> 00:18:54,480 Speaker 3: That is our government policy. That's the rules in the 399 00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 3: Northern Territory. If you don't like those rules, live somewhere else. 400 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 3: That's that's my message to listeners, Katie. If you know anyway, 401 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:03,520 Speaker 3: I won't reagitate that. But anti discrim's happening, which was 402 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,399 Speaker 3: our commitment to give faith based schools back the power 403 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:09,879 Speaker 3: to be able to positively say we want people of faith. 404 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 3: If there are two candidates and one has the same 405 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,120 Speaker 3: faith as at school, that they can say, yep, we're 406 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: gonna pick Mary because she, you know, is Anglican or 407 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:19,560 Speaker 3: whatever it might be, and we're in Anglican school. 408 00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 2: So that's really good. And what we're making. 409 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 3: Sure is that no one is just being discriminated, positively 410 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 3: discriminated against based on sex, so that's all been sortid. 411 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 3: We'll also have voluntary assisted dying. The report by the 412 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 3: Legal Constitutional Committee has come down, so people will be 413 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:37,439 Speaker 3: able to talk about that, and the Attorney General is 414 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 3: preparing legislation. So plenty happening and I'm sure we'll touch 415 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 3: base over the next two weeks. 416 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:45,080 Speaker 1: I'm sure we will. Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, appreciate your 417 00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 1: time this morning, Thanks for joining us. 418 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:47,959 Speaker 2: Thanks everyone, Thank you.