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Speaker 1: We have also been talking quite a bit in recent

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Speaker 1: weeks about the legislation that's due to be debated next

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Speaker 1: week or in the next parliamentary sittings which begin next week,

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Speaker 1: and the changes to alcohol legislation which will indeed see

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Speaker 1: alcohol allowed in remote territory communities. Now joining me on

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Speaker 1: the line to talk further about this is doctor John Boffer,

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Speaker 1: the Chief Medical Officer for Public Health at Central Australian

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal Congress. But also he is indeed from I believe. Well,

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Speaker 1: let me just get him on the line and we'll

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Speaker 1: double check. Good morning to you, doctor Boffer.

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Speaker 2: Good morning now are you good?

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Speaker 3: Mate?

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Speaker 1: You've got a couple of titles so I wasn't too

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Speaker 1: sure which to go with this morning, the.

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Speaker 2: Spokes presents of the People's Alcohol Action Coalition.

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Speaker 1: Well, John, we know that this situation right now, when

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Speaker 1: it comes to alcohol back in our remote Northern Territory communities,

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Speaker 1: legislation is going to be debated, as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: next when Parliament sits, so that begins next week. This

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Speaker 1: is something that we've spoken to John Patterson about. We've

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Speaker 1: also spoken to Marian Scrimjaw. We've actually we've spoken to

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Speaker 1: various people on this topic, and I know that you

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Speaker 1: also have some concerns in this space.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I'd just like to clear up a few

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Speaker 2: myths too about this. Firstly, within the Stronger Futures legislation

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Speaker 2: was passed in twenty twelve by the then Labor government. At

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Speaker 2: that point in time, the Racial Discrimination Act was fully

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Speaker 2: restored at the federal level. So it was suspended in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven when the NT Emergency Response came

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Speaker 2: into force or what was called the Intervention, but it

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Speaker 2: was brought back in full in twenty twelve. Now, since

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Speaker 2: twenty twelve, if anyone thought that the alcohol provisions in

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Speaker 2: the Stronger Futures legislation were racist, that is negative discrimination,

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Speaker 2: they should have taken it to court like that is

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Speaker 2: a serious allegation. No one should have tolerated a racist

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Speaker 2: structure or system in legislation for ten years. And so

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Speaker 2: it's a bit of a concern that at five minutes

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Speaker 2: to midnight we're now hearing from government ministers that these

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Speaker 2: provisions for all this time have been racist. Now we've

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Speaker 2: had average leaders obviously say that's not the case, but

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Speaker 2: we're having government ministers say this is racist. So I

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Speaker 2: think that it's really important that going forward, the RDA

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Speaker 2: is now in place, the nt Discrimination Act is in place.

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Speaker 2: Both of these act allow for what's called positive discrimination,

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Speaker 2: but they don't allow for negative discrimination, which is racism.

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Speaker 2: So that I think it is really important that whatever

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Speaker 2: happens going forward, there should be this talk about suspending

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Speaker 2: the RDA or suspending discrimination. That should be rubbish. We

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Speaker 2: are not planning or wanting anything in place that could

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Speaker 2: be seen as negative discrimination.

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Speaker 1: Now, doctor Boffel, let me take you to some comments

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Speaker 1: which were made by the Health Minister Natasha Files A

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Speaker 1: little be well towards the end of life this month,

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Speaker 1: so about a week ago, take a listen from July.

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Speaker 1: Once that legislation passes from July, they will be able

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Speaker 1: to have alcohol in that community unless they're community leaders

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Speaker 1: opt to not allow that takeaway alcohol.

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Speaker 4: Correct, Would it be a better.

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Speaker 1: Option to go the opposite way and those that have

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Speaker 1: been dry remain dry unless they actually apply to have

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Speaker 1: that license and it's led by the community.

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Speaker 3: So we can't legally do that. That would intertwine with

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Speaker 3: the Antidiscrimination Act in the Territory and the Racial Discrimination

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Speaker 3: Act Commonwealth. So if we're providing that exact legislative framework.

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Speaker 3: All the community have to do is say we opt in.

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Speaker 3: There is the ability for them to opt in and

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Speaker 3: make these decisions in their own time. They just need

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Speaker 3: to simply opt.

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Speaker 4: In, Doctor Boffer, what do you make of those comments?

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Speaker 2: Look, I think it's it's it's I don't think that's

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Speaker 2: correct entirely. What we're saying is these provisions need to

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Speaker 2: be extended for two years and people then are properly

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Speaker 2: consulted and have the chance to opt out. But if

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Speaker 2: these provisions were already in foul of the Racial Discrimination

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Speaker 2: Act or the Anti Discrimination Act, then there should have

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Speaker 2: been challenges for the last five whatever years. So there

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Speaker 2: haven't been. There hasn't been a single challenge by anyone

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Speaker 2: to either of those acts. So it's absolutely consistent with

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Speaker 2: both of these acts to continue these provisions and to

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Speaker 2: allow people and communities proper time to consider this change

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Speaker 2: and to opt out. Opting in before the sixteenth of

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Speaker 2: July is way too rush. People have to write to

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Speaker 2: the Director of Licensing and say they want to opt

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Speaker 2: in in some of these areas. It's not even clear

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Speaker 2: who would write such a letter on behalf of some

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Speaker 2: of these alcohol protected areas. In some places it is

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Speaker 2: clear who would have to write such a letter. But

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Speaker 2: there has to be time, there has to be good data,

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Speaker 2: there has to be time to fairly proberly console it's

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Speaker 2: too rush before sixteenth of.

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Speaker 1: July, doctor Bobin, What are your concerns in this space?

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Speaker 1: I mean, if we are in a situation come July one,

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Speaker 1: four hundred Aboriginal communities, town caves, out stations and living

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Speaker 1: areas that were dry, if they don't actually opt in,

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Speaker 1: and then they're in a situation where they can have

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Speaker 1: takeaway alcohol in those communities, what do you think is

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Speaker 1: going to happen?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think what we're then doing is asking the

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Speaker 2: police auxiliary licensing inspectors the palis to do an impossible job.

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Speaker 2: Their job becomes unworkable because, as many people may not know,

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal people in remote areas do not have street addresses,

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Speaker 2: so they don't have a license to an ID card

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Speaker 2: that says exactly where they live. It could be that

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Speaker 2: it says they live at Indau, for instance, when they

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Speaker 2: live on outstations and living areas around Indhari. So with

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Speaker 2: this hotchpotch of measures, the palis will have no way

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Speaker 2: of accurately knowing where the people are actually coming from

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Speaker 2: an area that's now said they want to have takeaway

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Speaker 2: people can drink take away alkalom the area or whether

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Speaker 2: they are so I just think it's going to completely

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Speaker 2: undermine the palais and make their job unworkable and open

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Speaker 2: the palais up to getting it wrong and then to

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Speaker 2: legal claims about it, because this is a serious business.

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Speaker 2: So I actually think it's actually going to completely undermine

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Speaker 2: police really licening aspectives to the point where it may

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Speaker 2: be impossible to continue that. And I think that's what

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Speaker 2: we're worried about. The palais have been the most successful

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Speaker 2: alcohol supply with action measure we've seen. We get everyone

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Speaker 2: gets at its discriminaty, but the positive impacts that it's

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Speaker 2: had have been incredibly significant, and it's got significant support.

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Speaker 2: And the reason why it hasn't been challenged is because

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Speaker 2: it's got such strong support from average and leaders, the

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Speaker 2: average of community and anyone thinking about challenges has probably

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Speaker 2: had legal advice that it is considered a special measure.

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Speaker 1: But that's in Alice Springs right, Like obviously in the

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Speaker 1: likes of Alice Springs and Catherine that works pretty well.

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Speaker 4: But like here in Darwin, you know, there.

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Speaker 1: Is nothing to say if somebody's got you know, if

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Speaker 1: someone's got a license and they're not on the BDR,

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Speaker 1: they can go in and purchase alcohol and then if

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Speaker 1: they want to take it out to a remote community,

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Speaker 1: they're going to be able to do that, aren't they.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, this is not a measure that will particularly

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Speaker 2: impact on Dalen. Although I understand in recent times because

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Speaker 2: of the increase in alcohol consumption that happened during COVID

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Speaker 2: outlet s Hindeau did start asking for license addresses for

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Speaker 2: people coming from remote areas and although you didn't have PALIS,

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Speaker 2: they were not selling alcohol to people who are coming

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Speaker 2: into town from remote areas, So that is something that

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Speaker 2: did start to have an endoa and even without PALIS.

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Speaker 2: But primarily this is going to affect Ellie Spring's Sound

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Speaker 2: and Creque and Catherine and CeNSE. Australia has a disproportionate

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Speaker 2: level of alcohol related harm. It has the highest harm

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Speaker 2: in the charity, significantly higher than Dalen. So we've seen

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Speaker 2: a big reduction in emergency department presentations, hospital missions, assaults.

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Speaker 2: You know, we've been seeing five less emergency department presentations.

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Speaker 2: In the year after Pali's was introduced, many less domestic

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Speaker 2: assaults and other assaults. We've seen charl neglect improved. We

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Speaker 2: don't want to throw the baby out with the bath

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Speaker 2: water too quickly here and unfortunately it's now five minutes

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Speaker 2: to midnight. The end is learning. There's not sufficient time

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Speaker 2: to properly consult people. So we want an opt out system,

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Speaker 2: not an opt in system, that fulfills all the requirements

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Speaker 2: under all of the Rational Discrimination at VNT Discrimination Act.

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Speaker 2: And it is these provisions can be extended because if

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Speaker 2: they were illegal, they should have been declared illegal in

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Speaker 2: the last ten years under these acts, and that hasn't happened.

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Speaker 2: So there's no risk in extending these these provisions for

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Speaker 2: longer to allow a proper process of consultation.

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Speaker 1: Well, Dr John Boffer, the spokesperson for the People's Alcohol

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Speaker 1: Action Coalition, we appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having your chat with me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you