WEBVTT - The trial over Cassius Turvey's death

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<v Speaker 1>E quick heads up. This podcast features the name of

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<v Speaker 1>a deceased Indigenous person and also contains distressing themes.

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<v Speaker 2>Already and this is the Daily this is the Dahlias.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Good morning and welcome to the Daily Os. It's Wednesday,

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<v Speaker 1>the twenty sixth of February.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Zara, I'm Billy.

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<v Speaker 1>The trial of four people accused of murdering fifteen year

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<v Speaker 1>old Cassius Turvy in Perth has begun in the WA

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court over two years after his death. It's a

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<v Speaker 1>case that prompted widespread rallies across the country and prompted

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<v Speaker 1>broader discussions about the treatment of First Nation's children here

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<v Speaker 1>in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>Zara, I think a lot of our audience will remember

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<v Speaker 2>this case because when it happened about two years ago. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>like you said, it really dominated the news cycle. But

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<v Speaker 2>it has been quite a long time since we have

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<v Speaker 2>spoken about it, at least on this podcast. So do

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<v Speaker 2>you want to start with who was Cassius Turvy?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? So, Cassius Turvy was a fifteen year old Nunga

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<v Speaker 1>Yamajee boy and he lived in Perth. As I mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>he enjoyed playing basketball, and he also ran a small

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<v Speaker 1>community business called the lawn Mower Boys, and that was

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<v Speaker 1>where he would cut other people's lawns in the local community.

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<v Speaker 1>He has been described by his mum and by his

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<v Speaker 1>family in the time after his death, and some of

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<v Speaker 1>the descriptions talk about him being a jovial, kind and

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<v Speaker 1>larger than life figure. And the reason that we know

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<v Speaker 1>of Cassius Turvy is because of his death and the

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<v Speaker 1>case that has ensued since. So just to quickly run

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<v Speaker 1>through a bit about the case. So, on the thirteenth

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<v Speaker 1>of October twenty twenty two, Cassius and his friends were

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<v Speaker 1>attacked on their way home from school in Perth. At

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<v Speaker 1>this time, he was allegedly beaten with a metal pole.

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<v Speaker 1>The fifteen year old was rushed to hospital where he

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<v Speaker 1>spent five days recovering before he was discharged. Almost immediately

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<v Speaker 1>after he was discharged, he suffered a seizure and he

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<v Speaker 1>was rushed back to hospital where he was placed in

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<v Speaker 1>an induced coma. Just ten days after this alleged attack,

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<v Speaker 1>he died in hospital. Now four people have since been

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<v Speaker 1>charged with the murder of Cassius Turvey. Their names are

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<v Speaker 1>Jack Braley, Brody Palmer, Mitchell Fourth and Alisia Gilmour. And

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<v Speaker 1>these are the people who are currently on trial and

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<v Speaker 1>the reason that we're talking about this case again today, So.

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<v Speaker 2>That trial is now underway. What has happened so far?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well, I just want to run through a bit

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<v Speaker 1>about the trial itself because I think it's interesting. So

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<v Speaker 1>the first thing to note is that the trial for

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<v Speaker 1>the four people I just mentioned began in the WA

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<v Speaker 1>Supreme Court on the tenth of February and it remains ongoing.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know today tomorrow there's going to be more

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<v Speaker 1>evidence presented. It's expected to last for about ten weeks

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<v Speaker 1>all up, so a fairly long case there of significance.

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<v Speaker 1>All four people or four defendants have pleaded not guilty

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<v Speaker 1>to murder and so they will be defending these charges

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<v Speaker 1>during this trial. Three of them, so Brainy, Fourth and Gilmore,

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<v Speaker 1>are also facing charges for allegedly kidnapping and assaulting another

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<v Speaker 1>fifteen year old boy in the days before the alleged

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<v Speaker 1>attack of Cassius Turvey. They've also pleaded not guilty to

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<v Speaker 1>those charges, and those charges are actually going to be

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<v Speaker 1>heard as part of this trial in court because there

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<v Speaker 1>is some connection that's being alleged between these two incidents.

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<v Speaker 1>And the other thing I'll just note is that this

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<v Speaker 1>trial is going to be decided by a jury, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that this is important to talk about because

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<v Speaker 1>the Cassius Turvey case was and is extremely high profile.

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<v Speaker 1>As I said at the top, there have been widespread

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<v Speaker 1>protests and demonstrations since his death, and so it's interesting

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<v Speaker 1>that this is a jury case, and it's one of

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<v Speaker 1>those cases where the judge will be keeping a very

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<v Speaker 1>close eye on jurors to ensure that they're not prejudice

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<v Speaker 1>and that they can come to a conclusion at the

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<v Speaker 1>end of the trial.

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<v Speaker 2>Just for anyone who's not exactly clear on that. The

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<v Speaker 2>thinking is that in high profile cases, it is a

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<v Speaker 2>risk that jurors will see commentary on the media or

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<v Speaker 2>that they have on social media which will influence their opinion.

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<v Speaker 2>And my understanding is that during a trial, the ideas

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<v Speaker 2>that jurors are not influenced by anything or any evidence

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<v Speaker 2>outside of what is presented in court.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely so they're not allowed to bring in any resources.

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<v Speaker 1>They're meant to be purely assessing it on the evidence

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<v Speaker 1>that's presented to them in court, which, as you said,

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<v Speaker 1>is difficult when so much of the country would have

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<v Speaker 1>read about this case for weeks and weeks and weeks

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<v Speaker 1>on end.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, really interesting, and that's why often in high profile

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<v Speaker 2>cases there will be a judge only trial instead of

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<v Speaker 2>a jury because there's not the chance of a fair trial.

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<v Speaker 2>But that is a whole other kettle. Oh yeah, sure,

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<v Speaker 2>will stick to this. You said that this trial is

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<v Speaker 2>expected to last up to ten weeks. We've had about

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<v Speaker 2>two weeks so far, two in a bit weeks. What

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<v Speaker 2>have we learned so far?

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<v Speaker 1>So basically, the first two weeks have just been setting

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<v Speaker 1>up the details or the timeline according to the prosecution,

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<v Speaker 1>So we've only heard from the prosecution because then the

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<v Speaker 1>defense will come afterwards. But so far, I think one

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<v Speaker 1>of the most striking testimonies has come from a school

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<v Speaker 1>friend of Cassius. And remember he was fifteen years old.

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<v Speaker 1>So a lot of the witnesses here are really really young.

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<v Speaker 1>And it also means that a lot of their identities

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<v Speaker 1>have been concealed because they are minors. So we don't

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<v Speaker 1>know who a lot of these people are, but we

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<v Speaker 1>are hearing their testimonies.

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<v Speaker 2>So Cassius Turvey was really young. What about the defendants?

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<v Speaker 2>How old are they?

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<v Speaker 1>So all of them are under the age of thirty currently.

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<v Speaker 2>I believe over the age of eighteen.

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<v Speaker 1>Correct, So two of them are in their early twenties

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<v Speaker 1>I believe, and two in their late twenties, but all

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<v Speaker 1>under the age of thirty. So yeah, this is a

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<v Speaker 1>case full of young people, really, and so to go

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<v Speaker 1>to what this school friend has provided as evidence. So

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<v Speaker 1>she alleges that while her and her school friends were

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<v Speaker 1>walking home from school, the four defendants drove by and

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<v Speaker 1>yelled racial abuse before claiming that Cassius and his friends

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<v Speaker 1>had smashed their windows. I'm not going to verbatim recall

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<v Speaker 1>what this abuse was because I don't think that that's necessary,

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<v Speaker 1>but comments were made about the race of the kids.

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<v Speaker 1>She says that the group of school children denied smashing anything,

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<v Speaker 1>but despite this, she went on to allege that after

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<v Speaker 1>the group accused the teenagers of smashing windows, they returned,

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<v Speaker 1>stopped the car, and got out armed with metal poles.

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<v Speaker 1>The witness described one of the men as muscular and

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<v Speaker 1>said the other two were skinny, and she told the

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<v Speaker 1>court that the boys started running and the men were

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<v Speaker 1>chasing after them. She claimed the Cassius was one of

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<v Speaker 1>the boys fleeing from the defendants and that they ran

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<v Speaker 1>into bushland, including Cassius. She then alleges that the men

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<v Speaker 1>ran into the bush with those metal polls, and that

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<v Speaker 1>sometime later Cassius emerged from the bush and he was

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<v Speaker 1>quote holding his head and it was bleeding down like

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<v Speaker 1>his head and ear, and he was crying.

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<v Speaker 2>Mile And so we don't know yet, because, like you said,

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<v Speaker 2>the defendants haven't been on trial yet what their defense

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<v Speaker 2>actually is. We know that they are pleading not guilty,

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<v Speaker 2>but we don't know what part of this they are

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<v Speaker 2>saying is not true.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because the only things that have happened so far

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<v Speaker 1>is that you know, CCTV has been provided of the

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<v Speaker 1>last minutes before this alleged attack. We've heard from a

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<v Speaker 1>number of witnesses who said they saw it. We've heard

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<v Speaker 1>from friends of Cassius, but like you said, we haven't

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<v Speaker 1>heard from the defendants or from their lawyers.

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<v Speaker 2>And do we know anything about what happened prior to

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<v Speaker 2>the alleged assault.

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<v Speaker 1>So the details of this are still emerging, but prosecutors

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<v Speaker 1>have described Cassius's death as quote the endpoint of a

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<v Speaker 1>complex series of events that had absolutely nothing to do

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<v Speaker 1>with him, and so much of this trial so far

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<v Speaker 1>has been unpacking this series of events, and different people

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<v Speaker 1>have different ideas or different recollections about what this complex

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<v Speaker 1>chain of events actually looks like. But ultimately, what the

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<v Speaker 1>prosecution is saying is that none of these events had

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<v Speaker 1>anything to do with Cassius. In terms of what those

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<v Speaker 1>series of events are, we are, as I said, still

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<v Speaker 1>in the early days of the trial, but essentially it's

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<v Speaker 1>been described in court as this kind of tit for

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<v Speaker 1>tat that includes things like the accused allegedly snatching two

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<v Speaker 1>kids off the street and abusing them following some social

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<v Speaker 1>media exchanges. That was before the alleged assault of Cassius Turvy.

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<v Speaker 1>Another incident relates to this alleged smashing of windows that

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<v Speaker 1>Cassius and his friends were accused of doing, and also

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<v Speaker 1>of threats made against the accused to damage their property. Again,

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<v Speaker 1>none of this has been tested in the court of

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<v Speaker 1>law yet, but ultimately what the prosecution is saying is

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<v Speaker 1>that none of these events should have led to the

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<v Speaker 1>death of Cassius Turvey.

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<v Speaker 2>And so we've said a number of times that this

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<v Speaker 2>is expected to last for ten weeks, and we're only

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<v Speaker 2>a couple of weeks in what can we expect to

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<v Speaker 2>hear in the coming weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, like we said, we'll expect to hear from the

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<v Speaker 1>defense about how they intend to defend these charges. There

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<v Speaker 1>are different groups of charges, all kind of relating to

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<v Speaker 1>these series of events. We'll be sure to keep an

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<v Speaker 1>eye on this because, like we started with at the

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<v Speaker 1>top here, this is a case that really galvanized the

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<v Speaker 1>broader Australian society. It opened up bigger conversations about how

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<v Speaker 1>Indigenous children are treated and First Nations communities more broadly.

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<v Speaker 1>So definitely one that we will be keeping an eye on.

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<v Speaker 2>Sara, thank you for explaining that, and thank you for

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<v Speaker 2>listening to this episode of The Daily os. We'll be

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<v Speaker 2>back again this afternoon with your evening headlines, but until then,

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<v Speaker 2>have a great day. My name is Lily Maddon and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl Country.

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<v Speaker 2>The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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<v Speaker 2>the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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<v Speaker 2>all Aboriginal and Torres s Right island and nations. We

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<v Speaker 2>pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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<v Speaker 2>both past and present,