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Speaker 1: E quick heads up. This podcast features the name of

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Speaker 1: a deceased Indigenous person and also contains distressing themes.

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Speaker 2: Already and this is the Daily this is the Dahlias.

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Speaker 2: Oh now it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Os. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: the twenty sixth of February.

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Speaker 2: I'm Zara, I'm Billy.

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Speaker 1: The trial of four people accused of murdering fifteen year

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Speaker 1: old Cassius Turvy in Perth has begun in the WA

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court over two years after his death. It's a

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Speaker 1: case that prompted widespread rallies across the country and prompted

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Speaker 1: broader discussions about the treatment of First Nation's children here

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Speaker 1: in Australia.

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Speaker 2: Zara, I think a lot of our audience will remember

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Speaker 2: this case because when it happened about two years ago. Now,

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Speaker 2: like you said, it really dominated the news cycle. But

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Speaker 2: it has been quite a long time since we have

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Speaker 2: spoken about it, at least on this podcast. So do

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Speaker 2: you want to start with who was Cassius Turvy?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So, Cassius Turvy was a fifteen year old Nunga

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Speaker 1: Yamajee boy and he lived in Perth. As I mentioned,

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Speaker 1: he enjoyed playing basketball, and he also ran a small

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Speaker 1: community business called the lawn Mower Boys, and that was

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Speaker 1: where he would cut other people's lawns in the local community.

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Speaker 1: He has been described by his mum and by his

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Speaker 1: family in the time after his death, and some of

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Speaker 1: the descriptions talk about him being a jovial, kind and

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Speaker 1: larger than life figure. And the reason that we know

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Speaker 1: of Cassius Turvy is because of his death and the

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Speaker 1: case that has ensued since. So just to quickly run

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Speaker 1: through a bit about the case. So, on the thirteenth

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Speaker 1: of October twenty twenty two, Cassius and his friends were

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Speaker 1: attacked on their way home from school in Perth. At

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Speaker 1: this time, he was allegedly beaten with a metal pole.

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Speaker 1: The fifteen year old was rushed to hospital where he

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Speaker 1: spent five days recovering before he was discharged. Almost immediately

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Speaker 1: after he was discharged, he suffered a seizure and he

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Speaker 1: was rushed back to hospital where he was placed in

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Speaker 1: an induced coma. Just ten days after this alleged attack,

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Speaker 1: he died in hospital. Now four people have since been

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Speaker 1: charged with the murder of Cassius Turvey. Their names are

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Speaker 1: Jack Braley, Brody Palmer, Mitchell Fourth and Alisia Gilmour. And

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Speaker 1: these are the people who are currently on trial and

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Speaker 1: the reason that we're talking about this case again today, So.

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Speaker 2: That trial is now underway. What has happened so far?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I just want to run through a bit

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Speaker 1: about the trial itself because I think it's interesting. So

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Speaker 1: the first thing to note is that the trial for

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Speaker 1: the four people I just mentioned began in the WA

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court on the tenth of February and it remains ongoing.

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Speaker 1: So you know today tomorrow there's going to be more

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Speaker 1: evidence presented. It's expected to last for about ten weeks

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Speaker 1: all up, so a fairly long case there of significance.

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Speaker 1: All four people or four defendants have pleaded not guilty

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Speaker 1: to murder and so they will be defending these charges

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Speaker 1: during this trial. Three of them, so Brainy, Fourth and Gilmore,

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Speaker 1: are also facing charges for allegedly kidnapping and assaulting another

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Speaker 1: fifteen year old boy in the days before the alleged

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Speaker 1: attack of Cassius Turvey. They've also pleaded not guilty to

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Speaker 1: those charges, and those charges are actually going to be

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Speaker 1: heard as part of this trial in court because there

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Speaker 1: is some connection that's being alleged between these two incidents.

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Speaker 1: And the other thing I'll just note is that this

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Speaker 1: trial is going to be decided by a jury, and

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Speaker 1: I think that this is important to talk about because

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Speaker 1: the Cassius Turvey case was and is extremely high profile.

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Speaker 1: As I said at the top, there have been widespread

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Speaker 1: protests and demonstrations since his death, and so it's interesting

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Speaker 1: that this is a jury case, and it's one of

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Speaker 1: those cases where the judge will be keeping a very

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Speaker 1: close eye on jurors to ensure that they're not prejudice

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Speaker 1: and that they can come to a conclusion at the

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Speaker 1: end of the trial.

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Speaker 2: Just for anyone who's not exactly clear on that. The

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Speaker 2: thinking is that in high profile cases, it is a

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Speaker 2: risk that jurors will see commentary on the media or

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Speaker 2: that they have on social media which will influence their opinion.

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Speaker 2: And my understanding is that during a trial, the ideas

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Speaker 2: that jurors are not influenced by anything or any evidence

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Speaker 2: outside of what is presented in court.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely so they're not allowed to bring in any resources.

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Speaker 1: They're meant to be purely assessing it on the evidence

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Speaker 1: that's presented to them in court, which, as you said,

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Speaker 1: is difficult when so much of the country would have

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Speaker 1: read about this case for weeks and weeks and weeks

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Speaker 1: on end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, really interesting, and that's why often in high profile

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Speaker 2: cases there will be a judge only trial instead of

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Speaker 2: a jury because there's not the chance of a fair trial.

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Speaker 2: But that is a whole other kettle. Oh yeah, sure,

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Speaker 2: will stick to this. You said that this trial is

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Speaker 2: expected to last up to ten weeks. We've had about

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Speaker 2: two weeks so far, two in a bit weeks. What

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Speaker 2: have we learned so far?

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Speaker 1: So basically, the first two weeks have just been setting

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Speaker 1: up the details or the timeline according to the prosecution,

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Speaker 1: So we've only heard from the prosecution because then the

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Speaker 1: defense will come afterwards. But so far, I think one

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Speaker 1: of the most striking testimonies has come from a school

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Speaker 1: friend of Cassius. And remember he was fifteen years old.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of the witnesses here are really really young.

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Speaker 1: And it also means that a lot of their identities

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Speaker 1: have been concealed because they are minors. So we don't

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Speaker 1: know who a lot of these people are, but we

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Speaker 1: are hearing their testimonies.

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Speaker 2: So Cassius Turvey was really young. What about the defendants?

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Speaker 2: How old are they?

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Speaker 1: So all of them are under the age of thirty currently.

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Speaker 2: I believe over the age of eighteen.

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Speaker 1: Correct, So two of them are in their early twenties

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Speaker 1: I believe, and two in their late twenties, but all

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Speaker 1: under the age of thirty. So yeah, this is a

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Speaker 1: case full of young people, really, and so to go

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Speaker 1: to what this school friend has provided as evidence. So

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Speaker 1: she alleges that while her and her school friends were

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Speaker 1: walking home from school, the four defendants drove by and

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Speaker 1: yelled racial abuse before claiming that Cassius and his friends

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Speaker 1: had smashed their windows. I'm not going to verbatim recall

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Speaker 1: what this abuse was because I don't think that that's necessary,

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Speaker 1: but comments were made about the race of the kids.

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Speaker 1: She says that the group of school children denied smashing anything,

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Speaker 1: but despite this, she went on to allege that after

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Speaker 1: the group accused the teenagers of smashing windows, they returned,

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Speaker 1: stopped the car, and got out armed with metal poles.

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Speaker 1: The witness described one of the men as muscular and

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Speaker 1: said the other two were skinny, and she told the

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Speaker 1: court that the boys started running and the men were

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Speaker 1: chasing after them. She claimed the Cassius was one of

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Speaker 1: the boys fleeing from the defendants and that they ran

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Speaker 1: into bushland, including Cassius. She then alleges that the men

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Speaker 1: ran into the bush with those metal polls, and that

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Speaker 1: sometime later Cassius emerged from the bush and he was

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Speaker 1: quote holding his head and it was bleeding down like

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Speaker 1: his head and ear, and he was crying.

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Speaker 2: Mile And so we don't know yet, because, like you said,

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Speaker 2: the defendants haven't been on trial yet what their defense

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Speaker 2: actually is. We know that they are pleading not guilty,

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Speaker 2: but we don't know what part of this they are

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Speaker 2: saying is not true.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because the only things that have happened so far

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Speaker 1: is that you know, CCTV has been provided of the

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Speaker 1: last minutes before this alleged attack. We've heard from a

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Speaker 1: number of witnesses who said they saw it. We've heard

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Speaker 1: from friends of Cassius, but like you said, we haven't

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Speaker 1: heard from the defendants or from their lawyers.

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Speaker 2: And do we know anything about what happened prior to

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Speaker 2: the alleged assault.

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Speaker 1: So the details of this are still emerging, but prosecutors

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Speaker 1: have described Cassius's death as quote the endpoint of a

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Speaker 1: complex series of events that had absolutely nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with him, and so much of this trial so far

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Speaker 1: has been unpacking this series of events, and different people

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Speaker 1: have different ideas or different recollections about what this complex

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Speaker 1: chain of events actually looks like. But ultimately, what the

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Speaker 1: prosecution is saying is that none of these events had

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Speaker 1: anything to do with Cassius. In terms of what those

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Speaker 1: series of events are, we are, as I said, still

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Speaker 1: in the early days of the trial, but essentially it's

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Speaker 1: been described in court as this kind of tit for

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Speaker 1: tat that includes things like the accused allegedly snatching two

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Speaker 1: kids off the street and abusing them following some social

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Speaker 1: media exchanges. That was before the alleged assault of Cassius Turvy.

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Speaker 1: Another incident relates to this alleged smashing of windows that

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Speaker 1: Cassius and his friends were accused of doing, and also

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Speaker 1: of threats made against the accused to damage their property. Again,

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Speaker 1: none of this has been tested in the court of

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Speaker 1: law yet, but ultimately what the prosecution is saying is

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Speaker 1: that none of these events should have led to the

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Speaker 1: death of Cassius Turvey.

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Speaker 2: And so we've said a number of times that this

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Speaker 2: is expected to last for ten weeks, and we're only

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Speaker 2: a couple of weeks in what can we expect to

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Speaker 2: hear in the coming weeks.

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Speaker 1: Well, like we said, we'll expect to hear from the

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Speaker 1: defense about how they intend to defend these charges. There

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Speaker 1: are different groups of charges, all kind of relating to

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Speaker 1: these series of events. We'll be sure to keep an

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Speaker 1: eye on this because, like we started with at the

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Speaker 1: top here, this is a case that really galvanized the

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Speaker 1: broader Australian society. It opened up bigger conversations about how

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Speaker 1: Indigenous children are treated and First Nations communities more broadly.

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Speaker 1: So definitely one that we will be keeping an eye on.

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Speaker 2: Sara, thank you for explaining that, and thank you for

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Speaker 2: listening to this episode of The Daily os. We'll be

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Speaker 2: back again this afternoon with your evening headlines, but until then,

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Speaker 2: have a great day. My name is Lily Maddon and

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Speaker 2: I'm a proud Arunda Bunjelung Kalkutin woman from Gadighl Country.

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Speaker 2: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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Speaker 2: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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Speaker 2: all Aboriginal and Torres s Right island and nations. We

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Speaker 2: pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

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Speaker 2: both past and present,