1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,920
Speaker 1: Now, what we do know, obviously from yesterday is that

2
00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,960
Speaker 1: we've now seen that five youths aged between eleven and

3
00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,360
Speaker 1: thirteen have been arrested after that Toyota Prato was stolen

4
00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 1: from the ABC before well, driving, I think erratically is

5
00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,680
Speaker 1: probably a mild way to put it earlier in the week. Now,

6
00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:19,840
Speaker 1: joining us on the line right now is the member

7
00:00:19,880 --> 00:00:22,560
Speaker 1: for our lun Robin Lamley. Good morning to you.

8
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,000
Speaker 2: Robin, Good morning Katie.

9
00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,960
Speaker 1: Now, Robin, I know that you have said that the

10
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:33,080
Speaker 1: events are a new low for the town. Honestly, I

11
00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,760
Speaker 1: don't even know where to start on this because you

12
00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,360
Speaker 1: and I have spoken on so many occasions about the

13
00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:43,280
Speaker 1: decline in behavior in Central Australia and what we saw

14
00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,440
Speaker 1: on Tuesday watching that footage on nine News dah and

15
00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:49,640
Speaker 1: last night, it's absolutely terrible.

16
00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:56,040
Speaker 2: Yes, it's alarming. It's unbelievable for me to watch it

17
00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:02,480
Speaker 2: because all that activity took place just beside my electoral office,

18
00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,640
Speaker 2: so electorate office, so it's really unnerving. And to think

19
00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,959
Speaker 2: that this happens almost every night to some extent in

20
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 2: Alice Springs and has been to some time is really

21
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:16,479
Speaker 2: it's just scary.

22
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,160
Speaker 1: It's really scary Robin was last night a bit of

23
00:01:20,160 --> 00:01:23,600
Speaker 1: a quieter night. Was there much happened last night?

24
00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,600
Speaker 2: I haven't heard of much happening at all last night.

25
00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:33,160
Speaker 2: So hopefully that these young people have exhausted themselves and

26
00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,520
Speaker 2: have received some sort of message that this sort of

27
00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,000
Speaker 2: behavior won't be tolerated. But having said that, there could

28
00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,080
Speaker 2: have been a lot going on. It just hasn't come

29
00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:44,600
Speaker 2: to my tent.

30
00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, Robin, tell me what is the feeling around Alice

31
00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:49,680
Speaker 1: Springs right now?

32
00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:57,960
Speaker 2: People feel a sense of powerlessness, a sense of not

33
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,360
Speaker 2: being heard. We've been screaming and shouting about this obvious

34
00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,760
Speaker 2: decline in law and order for a long long time.

35
00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:10,440
Speaker 2: The Minister of the Territory Families and the Minister for Police,

36
00:02:10,560 --> 00:02:15,040
Speaker 2: Kate Borden, has been speaking on local radio here in

37
00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 2: Alice Springs this morning saying that they're going to introduce

38
00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:23,360
Speaker 2: pretty much what I would define as a curfew, and

39
00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,680
Speaker 2: that is looking at these young people in terms of

40
00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:33,880
Speaker 2: a child protection perspective, recognizing that young people you said

41
00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,680
Speaker 2: before that the culprits the other night, we're apparently aged

42
00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,200
Speaker 2: between eleven and thirteen their children, and those children are

43
00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:44,080
Speaker 2: obviously not being cared for properly if they're behaving like

44
00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:46,840
Speaker 2: that and running them up during the night. So looking

45
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,760
Speaker 2: at it from a child protection perspective and taking them

46
00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:53,360
Speaker 2: into care, which is something I've been advocating for for

47
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:55,720
Speaker 2: a very long time. Of course, they're not using the

48
00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:59,400
Speaker 2: curfew word. They're saying it's a child protection response. I

49
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,839
Speaker 2: don't care they call it, Katie. They have to get

50
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,839
Speaker 2: these kids off the street at night because they are

51
00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 2: the ones causing the most trouble that they have no fear,

52
00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:15,040
Speaker 2: they're the big risk takers, and certainly on the other night,

53
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 2: they were the ones that were causing the trouble that

54
00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,959
Speaker 2: led to the police alert asking people to keep away

55
00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:28,800
Speaker 2: from the CBD on that night. So it's unbelievable and unbelievable.

56
00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,959
Speaker 1: And when you look at these acts, that's exactly right.

57
00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 1: And when you look at these some of the vision

58
00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,240
Speaker 1: that we'd even seen from over the course of the

59
00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:39,160
Speaker 1: weekend as well, where you're talking about kids in the

60
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:43,600
Speaker 1: backs of utes, it's like they're not only endangering other people,

61
00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,400
Speaker 1: they're endangering themselves.

62
00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:50,600
Speaker 2: Yes, and they were driving stolen vehicles around the car

63
00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,960
Speaker 2: park just adjacent to my office, all over the place.

64
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,560
Speaker 2: They could have had they could have at any point

65
00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,000
Speaker 2: run into a pole, the many poles and killed themselves

66
00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,640
Speaker 2: or other people. It was just insane. But what concerns me, Katie,

67
00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:09,720
Speaker 2: is that we're going back to Parliament in two weeks

68
00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:15,080
Speaker 2: time to debate a bill that the government's put forward,

69
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:19,200
Speaker 2: and that's increasing the age of criminal responsibility to twelve,

70
00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:23,480
Speaker 2: which means that some of these children that are responsible

71
00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,080
Speaker 2: for this crazy behavior will never be held responsible for

72
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,680
Speaker 2: that behavior because they'll be under the age of twelve.

73
00:04:33,240 --> 00:04:36,760
Speaker 2: And there's nothing in place that I'm aware of, and

74
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,800
Speaker 2: the police certainly aren't aware of it either, of a

75
00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:46,040
Speaker 2: plan to address this highly problematic, dangerous, risk taking behavior

76
00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:50,159
Speaker 2: that we're seeing these kids undertake that are under twelve.

77
00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:54,160
Speaker 2: So there's going to be a major gap in holding

78
00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:59,320
Speaker 2: these kids to account. If we lived in an ideal

79
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:03,039
Speaker 2: world case, I would agree with increasing the age of

80
00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:07,839
Speaker 2: criminal responsibility to twelve or indeed fourteen, which was recommended

81
00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:11,159
Speaker 2: in the Royal Commission into Juvenile Justice and Child Protection

82
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,479
Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen. But we don't live in an ideal

83
00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,960
Speaker 2: world and we have to have something in place that

84
00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:24,200
Speaker 2: addresses this highly problematic and dangerous behavior that we're seeing

85
00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,279
Speaker 2: in places like Alice Springs, but indeed in other parts

86
00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:31,120
Speaker 2: of the Northern Territory commonly too.

87
00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:33,000
Speaker 1: And Robin ware of these programs. You know, they have

88
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,120
Speaker 1: said that there are going to be programs in place

89
00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,600
Speaker 1: so that once that age of criminal responsibility is raised,

90
00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,360
Speaker 1: that there is still repercussions for kids that are doing

91
00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,600
Speaker 1: the wrong thing. But where are these programs?

92
00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,359
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not aware of any, and I've spoken to

93
00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:53,880
Speaker 2: people who would be aware if they do exist in

94
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,040
Speaker 2: recent times and they're not aware of any programs either.

95
00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 2: The police are very concerned about this gap that will

96
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:05,600
Speaker 2: emerge once this legislation goes through. I think labor are

97
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:12,479
Speaker 2: being very idealistic but irrational about increasing the age of

98
00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:17,720
Speaker 2: criminal responsibility because, you know, whilst we're seeing nights play

99
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,520
Speaker 2: out like we did the other night in Alice Springs,

100
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:24,479
Speaker 2: you know, and this is happening to probably hopefully a

101
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,440
Speaker 2: lesser extent in lots of other places in the NT,

102
00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:31,320
Speaker 2: it's not the time to bring in this sort of change.

103
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:37,159
Speaker 2: Kids need to be aware that there will be repercussions,

104
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,800
Speaker 2: like for our own children, Katie, you know, you have

105
00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 2: to have mechanisms and boundaries in place that teach kids

106
00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,720
Speaker 2: that that sort of behavior is not on and I

107
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:52,039
Speaker 2: just think that this is a slippery slope that we're entering.

108
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,680
Speaker 2: You know, on one hand, the government's talking about implementing

109
00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,880
Speaker 2: effectively a curfew in Alice Springs without using the sea work,

110
00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,679
Speaker 2: but yet in a couple of months, these kids won't

111
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:08,200
Speaker 2: be held responsible for anything. So Robert, why is all

112
00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:10,480
Speaker 2: this going? It's just not good.

113
00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:13,320
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and you know, and we've you've got a

114
00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,080
Speaker 1: town that feels like they're under siege, like, let's not

115
00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 1: forget that. And I know that you're certainly not forgetting that.

116
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,880
Speaker 1: You're living through it every day, as are all of

117
00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,000
Speaker 1: the people that live in Alice Springs. And you've been

118
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:27,560
Speaker 1: very vocal on this for you know, a number of years,

119
00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:29,720
Speaker 1: to the point where at different times you've been told

120
00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,080
Speaker 1: that you're talking the territory down and all sorts of garbage.

121
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:36,040
Speaker 1: But you know, we've seen this gradual decline in the

122
00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:39,720
Speaker 1: behavior in Alice Springs and it's now reached a point

123
00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,160
Speaker 1: on Tuesday where you've got the police alerting the public

124
00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 1: that they can't go into the CBD because it's too dangerous.

125
00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,280
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable, it beggars belief, but Robin, you know, it

126
00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,200
Speaker 1: really does. And you know then you've got obviously, the

127
00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,160
Speaker 1: government's come out now and they've said that they've got

128
00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,400
Speaker 1: this plan flagged that young people are going to be

129
00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,880
Speaker 1: picked up by the police. They could then be taken

130
00:08:01,960 --> 00:08:05,480
Speaker 1: to a safe place for a child protection assessment instead

131
00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 1: of being returned home. Robin, do you think that this

132
00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,240
Speaker 1: Do you think that this is going to have the

133
00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,160
Speaker 1: impact that everybody's hoping for, the circuit breaker that people

134
00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:15,960
Speaker 1: are hoping for.

135
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:21,880
Speaker 2: Well, I think we're always hopeful, but our expectations of

136
00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,200
Speaker 2: this government have been said at such a low points.

137
00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:31,000
Speaker 2: In reality, we don't really expect a great deal. I

138
00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:36,920
Speaker 2: think if they implement what they're describing in the way

139
00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,640
Speaker 2: that they're describing it, it will almost be a lost opportunity.

140
00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:43,160
Speaker 2: I think it will make a difference to remove certain

141
00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,840
Speaker 2: children that are clearly acting out and causing trouble, But

142
00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:52,640
Speaker 2: I think taking it the next step and implementing a

143
00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,120
Speaker 2: curfew is what will make a huge difference over a

144
00:08:56,160 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 2: longer period of time. It's about re educating a whole

145
00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,160
Speaker 2: community that what we've been seeing on the streets of

146
00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:08,599
Speaker 2: Alice Springs for many years now is completely and utterly unacceptable.

147
00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:15,199
Speaker 2: They need to implement a re education process, a strategy.

148
00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 2: It's about educating the whole community, including the parents and

149
00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:24,480
Speaker 2: the families of these children, that this is no longer acceptable.

150
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,480
Speaker 2: If you just cherry pick a couple of kids and

151
00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,320
Speaker 2: take them off the street, it will make a difference

152
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,360
Speaker 2: for a short period of time, until the next wave

153
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:36,360
Speaker 2: of kids decide that that's what they want to do.

154
00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,320
Speaker 2: It's not going to change things permanently. It will just

155
00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:42,560
Speaker 2: address a short term problem.

156
00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:44,840
Speaker 1: Robin, what do you make of these comments that have

157
00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,000
Speaker 1: been made as well throughout this morning and over the

158
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,680
Speaker 1: last twelve hours or so. You know that this is

159
00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:55,200
Speaker 1: another intervention, and you know that this is not the

160
00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,360
Speaker 1: right step to be taking kids away from their families.

161
00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,880
Speaker 2: Well, I'm sick of that, Katie. I'm set up with

162
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,959
Speaker 2: hearing that sort of nonsense, because the reality is we

163
00:10:07,040 --> 00:10:10,920
Speaker 2: have a whole cohort of children in the Northern Territory

164
00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:16,080
Speaker 2: that are being neglected, that are being abused, and because

165
00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,079
Speaker 2: they're Aboriginal, we don't do anything about it. And I

166
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:23,120
Speaker 2: think that that's entirely and utterly unacceptable. And if I

167
00:10:23,160 --> 00:10:26,080
Speaker 2: were to use the word racist, which I use very rarely.

168
00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,240
Speaker 2: That would be a great example of racism within our system.

169
00:10:31,679 --> 00:10:35,640
Speaker 2: We're treating Aboriginal kids differently to the way we treat

170
00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,920
Speaker 2: non Aboriginal kids throughout Australia, and I find that unacceptable.

171
00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:44,080
Speaker 2: I don't care what people brandy this sort of intervention

172
00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,559
Speaker 2: or strategy. The reality is these kids are not getting

173
00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,280
Speaker 2: a fair go, They're not being looked after, and the

174
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,400
Speaker 2: behavior we see on the streets is a result of that.

175
00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,560
Speaker 2: It's the elephant in the room. I'm willing to call

176
00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,840
Speaker 2: it outceptible. If people want to want to half back

177
00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,760
Speaker 2: to a strategy that was put in place years ago

178
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,360
Speaker 2: that's been completely dismantled, I might add by this government

179
00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,080
Speaker 2: by opening up the reversent of GROLD to four hundred

180
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,120
Speaker 2: Aboriginal living areas in just a few months ago, then

181
00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,720
Speaker 2: so be it. But we need to take this seriously

182
00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,000
Speaker 2: because nothing has changed in the last thirty years that

183
00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:29,880
Speaker 2: I've been living in the Northern Territory. In fact, I

184
00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,040
Speaker 2: would maintain that things have got worse in terms of

185
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,240
Speaker 2: child protection, child welfare, and poverty and everything that goes

186
00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:42,480
Speaker 2: with it. We're not progressing this, we're not changing anything.

187
00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:44,840
Speaker 2: So to call it out for what it is I

188
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 2: think is the first step in making some fairly radical changes.

189
00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,360
Speaker 1: Well, Robin Lamley, the Independent member for our lun We

190
00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,360
Speaker 1: always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for speaking

191
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:57,200
Speaker 1: with me this morning.

192
00:11:58,280 --> 00:11:59,080
Speaker 2: My pleasure caating.

193
00:11:59,240 --> 00:11:59,840
Speaker 1: Thank you