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Speaker 1: Adam Vot is a repeat visitor to the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 1: Why because he's one of the most sensible, one of

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Speaker 1: the most interesting, and one of the most pragmatic voices

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Speaker 1: when it comes to how we engage with schools as

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Speaker 1: parents in Australia. If you are a parent or a teacher,

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Speaker 1: this is one of those must listen interviews. Stay with us,

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Speaker 1: good day and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. Real

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Speaker 1: Parenting Solutions every Day. This is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.

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Speaker 1: My name is doctor Justin Coulson and I'm absolutely wrapped

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Speaker 1: to have the CEO and founder of Real Schools operating

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Speaker 1: in more than three hundred schools around the country. Now,

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Speaker 1: Adam vod with me to talk about the things that

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Speaker 1: apply to us as parents, but also the stuff that

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Speaker 1: affects teachers. We're going to be talking about phone bands

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Speaker 1: in schools, overt sexual behavior in schools, teacher burnout, and

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Speaker 1: also a new book that he's got out that is

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Speaker 1: available for every teacher in the country. I think you're

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Speaker 1: going to want to listen to this conversation. There's so

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Speaker 1: much good stuff to discuss. Adam, Thanks for being with me.

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Speaker 2: My pleasure, Chastam, we have an injury like that, mate,

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Speaker 2: I'm happy to talk for hours.

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Speaker 3: I'll try and keep it.

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Speaker 1: Sure, you're a tvcifer, stay, You've been on all of

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Speaker 1: the big shows, and people keep on ringing you because

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Speaker 1: you've got so many sensible things to say. Let's start

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Speaker 1: with what I think is probably a bit of a

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Speaker 1: softball one, but it's worthy of conversation because not every

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Speaker 1: school system is on board yet, but essentially state run schools,

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Speaker 1: government run schools around the country have unanimously over the

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Speaker 1: last year or two gotten on board with banning telephones

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Speaker 1: in school settings. So from nine to three, no telephones

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Speaker 1: if you're at school in a public system. What have

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Speaker 1: you seen in terms of the results around this.

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Speaker 2: First of all, the results are undoubtedly a win. So

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Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that it's one hundred percent win, and

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Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that it's without problem being able to

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Speaker 2: tackle something like this. But when you consider where we

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Speaker 2: came from, but almost universally across the country, we thought

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Speaker 2: it was impossible to.

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Speaker 3: Ban mobile phones.

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Speaker 2: I actually write an article that was published in the

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Speaker 2: Age about six years ago where I said, I think

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Speaker 2: that we just have to accept that every kid's going

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Speaker 2: to walk around with technology in their pocket, And then

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Speaker 2: had to write another one about twelve months ago where

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Speaker 2: I confessed my wrongness, where I had to say that

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Speaker 2: this is actually the evidence is it's just having too

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Speaker 2: much negative impact on our young people. The evidence is

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Speaker 2: that they need a break and that school is a

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Speaker 2: great time to be able to get that break. So

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Speaker 2: the challenge is how do we do it? And I

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Speaker 2: think if we looked at the spectrum of where it's

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Speaker 2: worked and where it hasn't.

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Speaker 3: We would see that there are schools that it's worked.

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Speaker 2: Okay, there's a handful of schools where it hasn't worked,

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Speaker 2: and there are schools where it's worked exceedingly well and

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Speaker 2: exceedingly well in terms of it being reported positively by

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Speaker 2: all stakeholders, especially the kids. And so you know, when

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Speaker 2: I look at schools that have done this really well,

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Speaker 2: I think about one of our partner schools in Western

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Speaker 2: Sydney whose principal really clever guy. And when the directive

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Speaker 2: came through, because that's how it landed, we will ban

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Speaker 2: mobile phones. His first step was to bring in his

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Speaker 2: student leaders and he asked them to all bring a

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Speaker 2: friend who they considered to be one of the cool kids.

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Speaker 2: And he told this group of kids in his office,

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Speaker 2: none of the communication around this mobile phone band which

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Speaker 2: we have to do, none of it is going to

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Speaker 2: come from me or from our staff.

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Speaker 3: It's all coming from you guys.

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Speaker 2: So you tell me how do we get this done

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Speaker 2: with parents, with staff, and with kids in a way

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Speaker 2: that has us all feel like we've got ownership of it.

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Speaker 2: And he's one school. That's one school that I would

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Speaker 2: say is like at the very pointy end of schools

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Speaker 2: where this has worked well and where his students are saying,

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Speaker 2: we love it.

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Speaker 1: That's such a great story. I love the student led

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Speaker 1: empowerment there. Adam, My read of whatever research has been

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Speaker 1: released indicates that there's been a seeming reduction in bullying.

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Speaker 1: There's more more high quality concentration happening, and better learning

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Speaker 1: happening in classrooms. Academic achievement appears to be on the up.

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Speaker 1: All of these things are being pushed onto this school band.

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Speaker 1: What else have you seen in the data? And is

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Speaker 1: there anything that's sort of really worth celebrating across the

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Speaker 1: board even though it's not a resounding success everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the thing that's worth celebrating is the

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Speaker 2: first steps. So I don't think we should think that

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Speaker 2: this is going to dramatically improve naplan or ATR results

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Speaker 2: or anything like that. But I think that what we

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Speaker 2: can do is say that we can have real confidence

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Speaker 2: given the research. Why people are Jonathan Hyde and Sherry

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Speaker 2: Turkle and Genequenji and people who have all been saying

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Speaker 2: for years that this is actually changing young people in

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Speaker 2: the wrong direction. That I think what we should be

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Speaker 2: excited about is what happens to the students who say,

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Speaker 2: in year seven now and when they get the next

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Speaker 2: six years of practice being in the company of other

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Speaker 2: people face to place, rather than staring downwardly at a phone,

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Speaker 2: when they have postures in their life that they practice

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Speaker 2: that don't look miserable. If you think about the way

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Speaker 2: we look justin when we look at a phone, we

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Speaker 2: actually strike a pose of kind of putting our chin

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Speaker 2: down to our chest, which is the pose you make

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Speaker 2: with your body when you're miserable, when you're sad. But

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Speaker 2: when you think about what you look like when you're

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Speaker 2: actually talking to another person, we take a more happy

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Speaker 2: disposition when we're doing that. And so I think there's

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Speaker 2: incredibly while yes, I think we're seeing some green shoots now,

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Speaker 2: which we should be happy about. I think what we

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Speaker 2: should be happy about is the kind of young people

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Speaker 2: that will develop in six years time if they get

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Speaker 2: all the practice they need about being in that awkward

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Speaker 2: argie bargie sometimes uncomfortable, often happy conversation space with other people,

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Speaker 2: the kind of young people they'll turn into, which is

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Speaker 2: that's what I'm more excited about.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I want to pick up on

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Speaker 1: another tech issue here. In fact, there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: different places we could go, but I want to talk

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Speaker 1: about sexualized behavior in schools. This is in the news

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Speaker 1: every other day. It's kids from let's say grade six

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Speaker 1: through usually to about grade ten, and it's unfortunately almost

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Speaker 1: always boys. Collective Shout and Advocate Organization for Women and

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Speaker 1: Girls released a report recently called the Sexual Harassment of

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Speaker 1: Teachers Report. Teachers across the country are saying that they're

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Speaker 1: being subjects to explicit and inappropriate comments and groans and

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Speaker 1: moans from boys as young as grade four and grade five.

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Speaker 1: We're seeing stories constantly about grade five, grade six, grade

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Speaker 1: seven boys, eight and grade nine boys who are setting

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Speaker 1: up chats and they're sharing racist and misogynist and anti

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Speaker 1: semitic memes, and sharing child abuse material and hardcore pornography.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the stuff is it's toe curling, it's breath taking,

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Speaker 1: that the world's gone this way and that our kids

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Speaker 1: so young are being so affected by it. In terms

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Speaker 1: of this sexualized behavior in school, what are you seeing? Firstly,

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Speaker 1: to the degree that you're comfortable sharing, But secondly, and

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Speaker 1: perhaps the bigger part of this question, what are we

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Speaker 1: supposed to do about it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's that's that's second part of it is probably

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Speaker 2: the big question, because I think, like you justin I'm

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Speaker 2: seeing I'm seeing big problems, and I worry not only

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Speaker 2: like you said, boys are overrepresented in this data, and

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Speaker 2: also boys who you know, the boys that are not

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Speaker 2: they're not They're not just our kids who typically struggle

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Speaker 2: at school.

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Speaker 3: There are our kids in those you know, what we.

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Speaker 2: Might call exclusive or elite schools, you know, who have

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Speaker 2: all the advantages but still falling for this kind of

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Speaker 2: I guess moral decay in the way that they're in

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Speaker 2: the way that they're being built. So I get concerned

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Speaker 2: for them because I think, what kind of young man

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Speaker 2: do you turn into? If you think early that that

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Speaker 2: at a formative stage that that's okay, or that it's

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Speaker 2: not only okay, but it's advantageous. And then I systemically,

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Speaker 2: if we don't do some take some action on this,

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Speaker 2: then I think that we put our workforce in schools

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Speaker 2: at enormous risk. So we will already have a national

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Speaker 2: teacher shortage crisis in the vicinity of thousands of teachers

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Speaker 2: that were short to run the program. Seventy five percent

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Speaker 2: of Australia's teachers are female. And if we create a

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Speaker 2: situation where we're driving them out of the profession at

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Speaker 2: a time that they have options, they can go and

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Speaker 2: do something else, you know, where they're not going to

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Speaker 2: be attacked by this.

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Speaker 1: I've got to jump in on this for just a sec,

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Speaker 1: just on that workforce issue. Writing this book about boys

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Speaker 1: at the moment, and the latest start that I've seen

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Speaker 1: coming out of the universities is that now for every

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Speaker 1: ten girls who graduate with a degree in education, there

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Speaker 1: are only between two and three boys men graduating with

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Speaker 1: degrees in education. So the numbers are getting worse, not better.

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Speaker 2: Yep, on both sides of the gender of the gender equation.

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Speaker 2: Because the one thing about this kind of whether you

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Speaker 2: call it toxic maxculinity or anything else, is that. What

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Speaker 2: it does is it sexualizes the workforce. So it means

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Speaker 2: that we see teaching as a female job. So our

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Speaker 2: males don't want to get the barbs at the pub

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Speaker 2: about you know, what, are you a kiddy? Or you know,

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Speaker 2: when you're working with women all day and all that

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Speaker 2: kind of stuff. They don't want to get that, so

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Speaker 2: they're discouraged. But on the reality side of it, we

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Speaker 2: can get women entering the workforce as teachers who very

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Speaker 2: very quickly go hey, this isn't a workplace I'm safe in,

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Speaker 2: This isn't a workplace that's good for me on out

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Speaker 2: And so as parents, I think we're going to go, okay,

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Speaker 2: ask your question justin what are.

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Speaker 3: We going to do about it?

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Speaker 2: You know, and which for me is about going all

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Speaker 2: the way back to saying how do we raise better kids?

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Speaker 2: How do we raise kids with this capability to understand

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Speaker 2: that their behavior has impact positively and negatively on other people,

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Speaker 2: which means building for them a healthier relationship with the

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Speaker 2: shame of that comes when they do something wrong. So

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Speaker 2: what we see in kids typically is is kids who

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Speaker 2: respond four ways negatively when they do the wrong thing.

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Speaker 2: They often either attack other people, so they not my fault,

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Speaker 2: I blame someone else, They attack themselves. I think every

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Speaker 2: teacher's heard a kids say I'm stupid. Way of making

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Speaker 2: it static and they can't improve, Yes you can. We've

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Speaker 2: got to hold that optimism for them. Sometimes they withdraw.

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Speaker 2: So we see this in all the stakeholders in schools.

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Speaker 2: Every teacher's seen a kid who makes a mistake throws

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Speaker 2: their book on the ground and storms out of the

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Speaker 2: classroom because they just can't handle the shame of falling short.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: But every teacher also was thought about chuck and asiki

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Speaker 2: after a bad day, and a lot of parents have

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Speaker 2: thought about not shown up for a parent teacher interview.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, in shame, we just go like a puff of smoke,

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Speaker 3: We disappear.

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Speaker 2: And there's this avoidant behavior which goes to this overly

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Speaker 2: sexualized behavior that we're seeing in young people a lot

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Speaker 2: of the time as well. They just don't want to

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Speaker 2: feel the shame, so they do something else that kind

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Speaker 2: of distracts them or numbs them from that feeling. They're

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Speaker 2: all counterproductive. So what we need at a very early

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Speaker 2: age is for young people to see and recognize that

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Speaker 2: feeling of falling short, you know, either by their own

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Speaker 2: doing or just for who they are, and to respond

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Speaker 2: to it productively. So teaching young people to resolve the

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Speaker 2: shame of all in short, rather than to do something

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Speaker 2: negative with it. It's the long handser, but for me,

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Speaker 2: it's the only way we build kids who are capable

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Speaker 2: of resisting the urges that they're currently falling for.

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Speaker 1: Adam, let's switch this to teachers for a moment. For

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Speaker 1: the last several years, there's been a lot of noise

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Speaker 1: made about teacher burnout, more teachers wanted to leave the

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Speaker 1: profession than ever before. I'm not seeing this receding in

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Speaker 1: the data. I'm actually seeing it accelerating. Teachers being sexually harassed,

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Speaker 1: teachers being exhausted, more demands being placed on teachers in

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Speaker 1: terms of the system, the curriculum, the schools, and parents

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Speaker 1: expecting more of them as well. Number one, what are

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Speaker 1: you seeing? And again the follow up is how do

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Speaker 1: we arrest this decline?

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Speaker 2: Really interesting when you look at the teacher well being

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Speaker 2: data out that's out there that there's nothing all that

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Speaker 2: new in it. We've known for probably twenty years or so.

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Speaker 2: The top three it begins pacts on teachers. Number one

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Speaker 2: is student behavior, so how they can handle young people

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Speaker 2: who are changing and their strategies aren't working anymore. The

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Speaker 2: second one is workload. We made teaching so much about

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Speaker 2: compliance and less about actually just creating a young environment

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Speaker 2: where young people grow. We've even't teachers no time to

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Speaker 2: just talk to and get to know their students. And

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Speaker 2: then the third thing that stresses them is issues with parents,

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Speaker 2: and it's driving them out of the profession. Teacher's got

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Speaker 2: a brief window at the start of COVID where, due

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Speaker 2: to lockdown's parents were going, oh my goodness, I didn't

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Speaker 2: know teaching was this hard. I really appreciate the teachers,

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Speaker 2: but when the kids went back to school, it got worse.

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Speaker 2: So it's like we PopEd that bruise, and that worries me. Well,

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Speaker 2: worries me just as much now is that. I had

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Speaker 2: a conversation with the politician recently. You said, I just

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Speaker 2: think that when it comes to solving the teacher shortage crisis,

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Speaker 2: we're probably going to have to.

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Speaker 3: Rely on AI.

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Speaker 2: And for me, removing the social realm from what we

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Speaker 2: view quality learning to should be something that frightens everyone

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Speaker 2: with a kid. So we need to actually take on

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Speaker 2: this monumental task. And we talked about mobile phone bands.

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Speaker 2: We can do monumental tasks. We need to take on

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Speaker 2: this monumental task. Say, how do we create an environment

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Speaker 2: where we value education in our country for our kids,

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Speaker 2: not just my kid? How do we take the competitive

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Speaker 2: nature out of it? How do we get it focused

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Speaker 2: on building good young people for the community, and thereby,

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Speaker 2: how do we make it a job that is aspirational

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Speaker 2: to young people in is ten or eleven and twelve

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Speaker 2: who are making decisions about what they want to do

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Speaker 2: at YUNI.

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Speaker 1: So I'm serving you up an opportunity to plug what

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Speaker 1: you do at real schools on a platter. Here it's

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Speaker 1: an unscripted, unplanned question. But as I'm listening to what

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Speaker 1: you're saying, so much of this feels like it comes

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Speaker 1: down to culture, and culture really does come from the top.

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Speaker 1: It comes from the leadership. Your work is all about

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Speaker 1: changing culture. It's all about leadership. Do you see the

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Speaker 1: same levels of staff attrition, same levels of b and out,

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Speaker 1: the same stresses in teachers who are working on culture

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Speaker 1: through the work that you do, all the work that

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Speaker 1: others do in terms of building stronger cultures and making

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Speaker 1: schools feel safer and better for people.

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Speaker 3: Almost a silly answer, nap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the schools that do the culture piece right get

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Speaker 2: benefits for all three stay colder groups. So we've got

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Speaker 2: a school that we work with, Clarence High School, don't

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Speaker 2: mind mentioning them in Tasmania, and they've been working with

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Speaker 2: us for about eighteen months now, so they have not

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Speaker 2: they had an issue around they wanted to work on

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Speaker 2: student engagement. One of the outputs that they thought they

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Speaker 2: could get around it was improved student conduct and behavior

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Speaker 2: in the school and they thought that one of the

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Speaker 2: measures of that could be their student suspension data. Now

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Speaker 2: they've done nothing about changing the threshold for suspension in

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Speaker 2: that school, so the kind of a watermark for what's

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Speaker 2: a suspendable offense in the school has not changed. But

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Speaker 2: eighteen months down the track, sixty percent drop in suspensions, right,

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Speaker 2: So this is a clear indication that they haven't made

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Speaker 2: it harder to suspend. They have a sixty percent better

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Speaker 2: behaved student cohort because they said it's time to work

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Speaker 2: on the culture and to actually think about the way

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Speaker 2: that we're interacting with young people and working with parents

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Speaker 2: to try and get somewhere on it. Then I think

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Speaker 2: about a school that we've got a new South Wales

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Speaker 2: called Bermer Public School, so primary school, and the work

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Speaker 2: that's been done there on building a culture that benefits

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Speaker 2: the teachers is outstanding in this school. So they now

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Speaker 2: have a situation where the National School Improvement Partnerships and

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Speaker 2: Curtin University researched and studied the school and the data

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Speaker 2: that came back to them about how eighty seven percent,

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Speaker 2: ninety seven percent, one hundred percent of the staff making

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Speaker 2: statements about the fact that they feel safe, nurtured, comfortable

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Speaker 2: at the school that they have no intention to leave

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Speaker 2: the school. Now comparative to the profession as a whole,

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Speaker 2: anything that is above ninety percent, and typically for that

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Speaker 2: is so far above the standard curve, it's ridiculous. You know,

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Speaker 2: they're not hunting around for teachers. They've got teachers.

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Speaker 3: Ringing up and saying can we come and.

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Speaker 2: Work at this school because you know, we've heard the stories,

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Speaker 2: this is a productive place to work. At the same time,

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Speaker 2: their NAP plan results are through the roof. You know,

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Speaker 2: their parents satisfaction data is amazing and their kids but

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Speaker 2: when surveyed are telling us that the number one thing

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Speaker 2: that they value about this school is rule clarity. So

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Speaker 2: this isn't This is a school that basically said, forget

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Speaker 2: the lists of rules, forget the control stuff. This is

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Speaker 2: a school that said, let's create an environment where kids

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Speaker 2: innate goodness can kind of come out of them.

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Speaker 3: And it does.

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Speaker 2: And so this system of control and prevention that we're

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Speaker 2: constantly asking teachers to take on. You know, when I

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Speaker 2: saw another statement of the paper the other day from

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Speaker 2: politicians saying it's time for us to crack down and

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Speaker 2: claim the classroom, I.

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Speaker 3: Was like, it's going on here.

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Speaker 2: You know what, are we some tyrannical leader of a

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Speaker 2: authoritarian leader of a country trying to take territory off

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Speaker 2: an enemy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, one.

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Speaker 2: We need to reclaim the way we work, not the ground.

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Speaker 2: You know, work the right way. All benefit, all stakeholders

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Speaker 2: will benefit. We've got to support teachers to find that

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Speaker 2: way working.

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Speaker 1: So when you say this, here's what I'm hearing. You

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Speaker 1: said that the three biggest challenges that have been consistently

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Speaker 1: showing up for the two decades student behavior, workload and parents,

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Speaker 1: and by working on culture, students start to behave better,

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Speaker 1: which is it's not going to get rid of all

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Speaker 1: workload issues, but it's going to free up more capacity

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Speaker 1: so that you can do the work that needs to

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Speaker 1: be done. And parents aren't going to be on your back.

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Speaker 1: Why because the kids are actually having a good time

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Speaker 1: at school. They're glad to be there. So by working

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Speaker 1: on culture, you get a positive outcome. And yet it's

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Speaker 1: just so hard to shift culture for so many.

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Speaker 2: Schools because I guess they don't realize. First one, they

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Speaker 2: don't know how what culture is. So when they know,

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Speaker 2: I asked school leg I ask a room full of

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Speaker 2: five hundred principles, you know, who thinks the culture of

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Speaker 2: their school is important?

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Speaker 3: Everyone puts their hand up.

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Speaker 2: And then I'll say, put your hand up if you'd

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Speaker 2: like to come out in the stage with me and

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Speaker 2: tell everyone what school culture is.

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Speaker 3: And so a lot of go down.

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Speaker 2: So we've got to get clear on what it is,

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Speaker 2: you know, and we just call it a we just

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Speaker 2: call it a collective now for behaviors.

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Speaker 1: I just keep on coming back to this idea of culture.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the whole conversation really is centered around creating culture,

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Speaker 1: whether it's around technology, whether it's around sexualized behavior, whether

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Speaker 1: it's around teachers feeling good or feeling burned out, and

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Speaker 1: even dealing with parents who can sometimes be pretty demanding

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Speaker 1: and add a lot of pressure to the lives of

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Speaker 1: teachers and principles. Let's wrap this up with your treatise

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Speaker 1: on culture. The new book is called Restoring Teaching, How

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Speaker 1: working restoratively unleashes the teacher within Adam. You've generously made

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Speaker 1: an offer to every teacher in Australia. Walk us through

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Speaker 1: the offer about the book and how it can help them.

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Speaker 2: So it's a second edition of something that I wrote

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Speaker 2: a few years ago. We've definitely upgraded and updated it

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Speaker 2: to reflect some of these modern challenges that teachers are

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Speaker 2: facing at the moment.

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Speaker 3: We've given it a lay to ten thousand teachers.

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Speaker 2: And at the moment you can get a print copy

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Speaker 2: at cost for us. But there's also an audiobook and

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Speaker 2: there's nothing weird a justin I don't know if you've

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Speaker 2: done this then, sitting in a booth and reading your

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Speaker 2: own book for three.

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Speaker 3: Days and nine times. I've done it nine times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as you find all the typos that you were

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Speaker 1: convinced weren't there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And there's an audio book on audiobook and e

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Speaker 2: book available completely for free online for any teacher who

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Speaker 2: wants to read it. We've got Our mission as an

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Speaker 2: organization at real schools is to transform education in Australia,

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Speaker 2: which means that we need to be there for any

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Speaker 2: teacher and this is our way of being there for

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Speaker 2: them without.

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Speaker 3: Them having to put their hands in the pocket.

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Speaker 2: And I get emails all the time from teachers who

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Speaker 2: say that one a had recently the teacher who told

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Speaker 2: me that reading it kept during the profession, and.

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Speaker 3: I'll take that. So the big aim of the book.

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Speaker 2: Is to to teach teachers this restorative way of working.

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Speaker 2: And then the second big aime of the book is

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Speaker 2: to restore the respect that we have for the teaching

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Speaker 2: profession through giving teachers access to exemplary practice.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and if parents want to have a look at

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Speaker 1: it because they're fascinated by the idea of a sortive

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Speaker 1: practice or what you're talking about, it's available on your website.

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Speaker 1: So we'll link to that in the show notes and

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Speaker 1: hopefully some teachers can take advantage of what I think

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Speaker 1: is an extraordinarily generous offering. I wish, I wish I

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Speaker 1: could give my book away to every parent in the country. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: my publisher would not.

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Speaker 3: Want of the joys it.

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Speaker 2: I'm one of the joys of going self published on

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Speaker 2: something like that, Justin is that we get to we

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Speaker 2: get to make these kinds of decisions. So yeah, and

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Speaker 2: it's really important to us. And so for any parent

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Speaker 2: out there who might be interested, they can feel very

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Speaker 2: free to go and get themselves a free copy and

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Speaker 2: to even drop it into at their local school and

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Speaker 2: ask if they'd like to have a look.

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Speaker 3: That's a great way for a parent to be generous. Adam.

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Speaker 1: Every time we talk, I walk away feeling real short

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Speaker 1: and hopeful about what education can be and how things

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Speaker 1: can work out really well in schools. It's such a

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Speaker 1: mixed bag in some ways. It just feels like a lottery,

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Speaker 1: a principal lottery, a teacher lottery on a day to day, months, month,

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Speaker 1: and certainly a year to year basis for so many families.

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Speaker 1: And I feel as if you bring a lot of

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Speaker 1: sense and sensibility to what is often considered the impossible profession.

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Speaker 3: Thanks so much for the chat, my pleasure, Thank you

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Speaker 3: very much.

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Speaker 1: Adam Voyd is the founder and CEO of Real Schools

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Speaker 1: and the author of Restoring teaching. Like I said, we

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Speaker 1: will link to that in the show notes. I always

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Speaker 1: find these conversations so valuable and so helpful. The Happy

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Speaker 1: Families podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, check the show notes for everything we've

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Speaker 1: talked about in relation to Adam and his work. If

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Speaker 1: you'd like more info about making your family happy, I

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Speaker 1: have visitors at happyfamilies dot com, dot a u