1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Now just taking you across to a story which has 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: just come through from Matt Cunningham on Sky News. 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 2: Now. 4 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: Essentially it is being reported that ex Northern Territory Police 5 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: officer Zachary Rolf has lodged a complaint accusing the coroner 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: of bias after she delivered findings into the death of 7 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: Komen Jay Walker in front of a banner of an 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,600 Speaker 1: activist group that called for the cleared cop to face 9 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: traditional Indigenous justice. Now we're going to be catching up 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 1: with Matt in just a moment's time. Actually, he joins 11 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,840 Speaker 1: us on the line right now. Matt Cunningham from Sky News. 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:46,520 Speaker 1: Good morning, Matt. Matt a story which you have just published. 13 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: Ex Northern Territory police officer Zachary Rolf lodged a complaint 14 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: accusing the coroner of bias. Talk us through what's happened. 15 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I've been able to confirm Cody that Zachary 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: Rolf has lodged a complaint with the Anti Judicial Commission, 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: that's the body that oversees judges in the Northern Territory, 18 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: and the complaint essentially relates to his concerns of alleged 19 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:18,760 Speaker 2: bias by the coroner Elizabeth Armitage in the inquest that's 20 00:01:18,800 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: just been completed into the death of Kumen Joe Walker. Now, 21 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: essentially the complaint centers around three issues. One is, in 22 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: his mind, the failure to properly investigate the actions of 23 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 2: five senior police officers have provided statutory declarations to the 24 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 2: inquest about those racist awards, saying that they were not racist, 25 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 2: and as we know it was subsequently well. Zachary Roll 26 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: subsequently presented copies of some of those awards to the 27 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 2: inquest and they indeed were, I think you'd have to say, 28 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: are racist. And his on that issue centers around her 29 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: failure to recall those officers to take more evidence from 30 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 2: them about those awards and about why they had submitted 31 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: those statutory declarations. The other part of this complaint, Katie, 32 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,520 Speaker 2: relates to the handing down of the findings at Yindimou 33 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: earlier this month. Now, Zachary Rolf is alleging biased because 34 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:32,040 Speaker 2: the coroner handed those findings down at the poor Media 35 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 2: building in Yindamoo and not in a neutral courthouse setting, right. 36 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,000 Speaker 2: And also the fact, and I think this is perhaps 37 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,640 Speaker 2: the most interesting part of this complaint, the fact that 38 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 2: she delivered those findings with an activist group's banner behind her, 39 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: and if you watch the video, I wasn't there. I 40 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:53,520 Speaker 2: was on leave when these findings were delivered. But if 41 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:57,399 Speaker 2: you watch the video of what occurred there, as she's 42 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,480 Speaker 2: beginning to deliver her findings, someone gets up and puts 43 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,800 Speaker 2: the banner up behind and it's a banner of the 44 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:08,359 Speaker 2: group that represents some of the elders and community leaders 45 00:03:08,400 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 2: in Yundo move who won't have been calling for a 46 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: ceasefire and for police not to carry guns in remote communities. 47 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: But in a statement in twenty twenty two, this group 48 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: also and this is still on their website now called 49 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,400 Speaker 2: for Zachary Roff's acquittal in twenty twenty two in the 50 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 2: Supreme Court and Darwin to be thrown out and for 51 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: him to be retried in Our Springs, and also called 52 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:36,320 Speaker 2: for him to face customary law at Yndamove. So Zachary 53 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: Roff is arguing that she's displaying a bias because she's 54 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: sitting in front of a banner of a group who 55 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: wanted to see him speared at Yindimoo. Now I put 56 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 2: some questions to current Armitis. She hadn't responded by deadline 57 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 2: and also contacted the Anti Judicial Commission, who say they 58 00:03:55,240 --> 00:04:02,000 Speaker 2: can't comment on complaints. But it is my understanding that 59 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: this complaint was made last week and that the Judicial 60 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 2: Commission has acknowledged receipt of the complaint and asked Zachary 61 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 2: Rolfs for more information in relation to it. 62 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: Right, So what is the process now, Matt, do we know? 63 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 2: Well, there's there's a there's a float chart on the 64 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:25,600 Speaker 2: end of Anti Judicial Commission's website that explains that process. 65 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 2: I'll try to I'll try to simplify it all. I mean, 66 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 2: at one end, at one end of it, it could 67 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,160 Speaker 2: be immediately dismissed and that's the end of the matter. 68 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: Now now it's my understanding that it's past that hurdle 69 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 2: already because I believe that the Judicial Commission has gone 70 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 2: back to Zachary rolf and acknowledged his complaint and asked 71 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:54,359 Speaker 2: for him to provide more information. From there, you know, 72 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,119 Speaker 2: the Commission can do all kinds of things. It can 73 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 2: do it it needs to then go to the coroner 74 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:05,039 Speaker 2: and get a response from her. At that point, it 75 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 2: can dismiss the complaint or if it thinks necessary, it 76 00:05:10,160 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: can go down to paths. If it thinks this is 77 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: very serious. It can go down to path that could 78 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 2: ultimately lead to a judicial officer's dismissal, or that there's 79 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 2: sort of a medium path, a pathway in between where 80 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: you know, it can go. A panel can be appointed 81 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: to assess the complaint and then it could potentially just 82 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 2: result in counseling for the judicial officer. So you know, 83 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 2: there's a range of outcomes you know that can can 84 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: come from a complaint to the Anti Judicial Commission, everything 85 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 2: from the complaint being dismissed to some pretty serious sanctions 86 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 2: being taken against judicial officers. So we're obviously only at 87 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 2: the very beginning of. 88 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,360 Speaker 1: That prop process. That it's obviously something that did spark 89 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: people's attention. I mean even I've got an email or 90 00:05:57,800 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: a message that came through from Peter Kavanah and how 91 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: Springs this morning and he said, Hi, Katie. The coroner's 92 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: foolishness in delivering her findings in front of a political 93 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:09,280 Speaker 1: flag put her into the political spotlight. Now we were 94 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: more talking about the context, obviously, of the comments which 95 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: had been made in Parliament yesterday by the Minister for 96 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 1: the Prevention of Domestic Violence Robin carl and and you know, 97 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,080 Speaker 1: i'd ask the Attorney General this morning whether she had 98 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:26,599 Speaker 1: confidence in in the coroner and and and you know 99 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:31,720 Speaker 1: it's sort of spoken about it from that perspective. Well, oh, look, 100 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: I'd have to go back and listen to exactly her wording. 101 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: But you know she said she fully supported you know, 102 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: the Minister Robin carl and you know that it wasn't 103 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: so much an issue with the coroner as an individual, 104 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 1: but making sure that processes, you know, are sped up 105 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: and that things are happening in a more timely fashion. 106 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:57,640 Speaker 1: I believe was sort of the you know, the context 107 00:06:57,800 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 1: or the crux of it. I'd have to go back 108 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: and and have a double listen. You know what it's 109 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 1: like that when you're in the studio. 110 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,680 Speaker 2: We're in. I mean, it's a fairly extraordinary situation that's 111 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: taking place at the moment. You have to where you 112 00:07:14,120 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 2: have you have senior members of the government, including you know, 113 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 2: the Chief Minister and the Minister to the Prevention of 114 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: Family Violence openly criticizing the coroner and her work. I mean, 115 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 2: Robin Kale's contribution in the Parliament yesterday was fairly extraordinary, 116 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 2: I thought, describing her her report into the deaths of 117 00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 2: those four Aboriginal women as underwhelming and uninspiring. And then 118 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 2: and then you know, going quite a bit further in 119 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: her criticism of her, that is, that's fairly unusual. You 120 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 2: don't often see members of the government criticizing you know, 121 00:07:57,160 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: coeigners or judges in that sort of way. So there 122 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: see a lot of tension. I think they're at the 123 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: moment between the finocchi Aro government and the coroner reallysic Pharma, Yeah, 124 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 2: so what's. 125 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: The situation, you know, Matt, I don't know whether you 126 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: know off the top of your head, but you know, 127 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: when an appointment such as an appointment to the position 128 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 1: of coroner is made, is it for a specific period 129 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: of time, what's or can they like are they able 130 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: to be, you know, in a role for forever sort 131 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: of thing? 132 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 2: I'm not sure that it is. My understanding is that 133 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: once you're appointed, you there for you know, as long 134 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 2: as you want to be, unless you know, well, unless 135 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:43,880 Speaker 2: you were removed or you know, some kind of serious misconduct, which. 136 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 1: Which I mean and I guess the thing is, you know, 137 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: the government at the moment they're being critical or you know, 138 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: like they've they've had some criticisms, but like I didn't 139 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: get the impression from the Attorney General. Crystal's just gone 140 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: back and got the wording for me. But Mary Klear 141 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 1: Boothby had said, it's more about the person. The coroner 142 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 1: is not on notice, but Northern Territory government looking under 143 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: the hood, looking at all the avenues to address long 144 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 1: standing problems. She should She stood by the DV Minister 145 00:09:14,480 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: saying she's passionate about domestic violence and backs her in 146 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:23,320 Speaker 1: pointing to victims support m taking a look. 147 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: Under the law A very all, very interesting, you know. 148 00:09:26,280 --> 00:09:28,000 Speaker 2: I mean there's a long tradition, you know, if you 149 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 2: look at if you look at the situation in the 150 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 2: United States for example, I mean, you know, judges and 151 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: judicial appointments have always been highly political. Here it's a 152 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:44,600 Speaker 2: very different situation where you know, judges and judicial officers 153 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:49,200 Speaker 2: are seen to be completely apolitical and above politics. So 154 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,880 Speaker 2: it's interesting that you know, the government and particularly the 155 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 2: Minister Robin Taley yesterday under parliamentary privilege, you know, making 156 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 2: that speech and really offering scathing criticism. You'd have to 157 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 2: stay under the circumstances of the China. 158 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: Well, Matt Cunningham, it is certainly an interesting situation at 159 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: this point in time, so no doubt you and I 160 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 1: will talk again very soon. Thank you for joining us 161 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: on the show this morning. 162 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 2: No worry, thanks, Thanks mate.