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Speaker 1: Three p sixty with Katie Wolf. Everyone is listening to

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Speaker 1: Mix one oh four point nine one hundred.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to Mix one O four point nine's

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Speaker 2: three sixty and it is the Big Issues and joining

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Speaker 2: us in the studio this morning. Dave Tolner, good.

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Speaker 1: Morning, Good morning Caty.

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Speaker 2: And I've also got Maddie Hepworth, Good morning, Maddie.

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Speaker 3: Can you call it the big Issues if you've got

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Speaker 3: Maddie here?

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Speaker 2: No, he's not as big as Damian.

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Speaker 1: He's a shadow and the big fellow.

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Speaker 4: Both in size and such a.

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Speaker 1: He can't defend himself. Be's time to get him.

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Speaker 2: Well, Look, it's always fun in here on the Wednesday.

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Speaker 2: I enjoy discussing some of the bigger issues. And this

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Speaker 2: morning I want to kick off with the news that

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Speaker 2: apparently there's some h gie bargie within the COLP at

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Speaker 2: the moment when it comes to pre selection before the

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Speaker 2: federal election. Now we don't I don't even know what

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Speaker 2: date the federal election is going to be at this

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Speaker 2: point in time, but apparently a couple of names have

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Speaker 2: been thrown about that want to potentially put their hands

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Speaker 2: up to run against Senator Sam McMahon for that pre

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Speaker 2: selection for the Senate seat Dave. Apparently there's some sort

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Speaker 2: of argie bargie and some suggestion which has been denied,

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Speaker 2: suggestion that some branches aren't going to be able to

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Speaker 2: vote because they're not they haven't paid their fees. To me,

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Speaker 2: I know anything about that, No insight, no inside bet.

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Speaker 3: I'm not sure that branches have to pay their fees.

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Speaker 3: It sounds to me like a little bit of scuttle But.

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Speaker 2: What do you reckon though, I mean, are people happy

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Speaker 2: with Senator Sam mcmahont well.

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Speaker 3: To be fair, I don't know a lot about what's

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Speaker 3: going on there, and I don't know a lot about

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Speaker 3: Sam McMahon. I've never actually said two words to us.

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Speaker 3: I think I may have met at one time and

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Speaker 3: said hello and introduced myself, but that's basic it. So

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Speaker 3: I don't know anything about him. I've had very little

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Speaker 3: to do with the c orp in the last few years.

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Speaker 3: But having said that, look, it wouldn't surprise me. I

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Speaker 3: don't think that there's a single seat with any party

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Speaker 3: that's not always contested. There's normally someone will be putting

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Speaker 3: their hand up to contest the seat against the incumbent.

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Speaker 1: And you know that's.

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Speaker 3: Normally the case across parties, although Labor does have a

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Speaker 3: habit of instantly pre selecting sitting members, but certainly the

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Speaker 3: country Liberals aren't that way. Every every every pre selection

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Speaker 3: is generally contested.

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Speaker 2: And is that a better way to do it? Do

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Speaker 2: you reckon.

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Speaker 1: Better?

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Speaker 3: The thing is, of course, you know, it's a it's

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Speaker 3: a dreadful look publicly it seems that your party is

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Speaker 3: always squabbling. But the other side of the coin is

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Speaker 3: it means that people can't get comfortable, actually always have

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Speaker 3: to be on their toes, make sure that they're out

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Speaker 3: there in the electorate working with the party and all

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Speaker 3: of that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 1: So you know, I'm not.

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Speaker 3: Surprised about any of this sort of stuff that there's

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Speaker 3: rumors that, you know, there's got to be challenges for

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Speaker 3: seeing Mars seat.

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Speaker 4: But came up twelve months ago in a certain pre

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Speaker 4: selection seat of fun Limb with a certain.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly what you've got a long memory made.

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Speaker 4: He had no association for a few years.

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Speaker 3: I thought, probably why I missed out, because I didn't

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Speaker 3: really have much of an association with him.

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Speaker 1: It was the last minute thing. I thought I'd throw

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Speaker 1: my hat in the ring and whatnot.

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Speaker 3: I think everybody knew me, but certainly I hadn't been

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Speaker 3: attending party functions or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I still don't.

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Speaker 2: That pre selection process is a really interesting one, but

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Speaker 2: it's one lots of you know, people that aren't involved

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Speaker 2: in politics probably don't realize sort of how how full

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Speaker 2: on it can get. I suppose, whether you're talking about

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Speaker 2: the Labor Party, whether you're talking about the COLP federally

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Speaker 2: or at at your sort of territory level. You know,

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Speaker 2: sometimes it's not necessarily the best representative who ends up

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Speaker 2: with the job. It's the one that's got the most

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Speaker 2: support within a political party, which everyday territorians is maybe

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Speaker 2: not the best way of doing it.

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Speaker 3: Certainly, I personally think it's a whole lot better than

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Speaker 3: just letting a person sit there until they've aded out.

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Speaker 3: You know, I think politicians should undergo a contest every

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Speaker 3: term to see whether they're the best candidate for the job.

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Speaker 3: The parties, you know, I mean, people talk about political

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Speaker 3: parties and that sort of stuff, but the fundamental issues

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Speaker 3: with political parties they have philosophies, and you know, a

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Speaker 3: person to represent a political party should share some of

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Speaker 3: that philosophy that the party shares, so you know, the

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Speaker 3: party's got to I think write and entitlement to question

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Speaker 3: whether a person should maintain their statuses. Especially in the Senate.

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Speaker 3: I think you know, it's almost an automatic that you'll

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Speaker 3: be elected. The pre selection is the big battle for

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Speaker 3: anyone in the Senate in the Northern territory. You know

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Speaker 3: if the who ends up, whoever ends up on top

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Speaker 3: of the labor and see your pee tickets, is going

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Speaker 3: to almost guaranteed to be a Senator.

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Speaker 2: And to know when the federal elections happening.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, gain there's a whole lot of scuttle but

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Speaker 3: but my gut tells me that scom I will go

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Speaker 3: the term. I can't see anything else that The reality

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Speaker 3: is is that Australians will tend to mark you down

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Speaker 3: if they think you're going to elections because it's that

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Speaker 3: you've got some sort of advantage.

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Speaker 1: If they think you know.

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Speaker 2: So you reckon, it'll wait, so you reckon, you don't reckon.

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Speaker 2: It'll go early, Like towards the end of the year.

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Speaker 3: I think you know, he's elected for a three year term.

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Speaker 3: I think you're probably try and make the most of

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Speaker 3: that three year term. Waited out as long as he

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Speaker 3: can and then go an election and you know, go

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Speaker 3: to election based on his record, not going to an

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Speaker 3: election based on the fact that Albert can't get any

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Speaker 3: air anywhere and no one seems to like him.

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Speaker 1: That's hardly a reason to go to an election.

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Speaker 4: If you look at every election that has taken place

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Speaker 4: since the COVID nineteen pandemic, it's been in favor of

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Speaker 4: the sitting government as well here in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 4: Queensland Act as well. And you know they compare Australia

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Speaker 4: to other countries in our handling of the pandemic. Then

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Speaker 4: you know that's brownie points in an election for Scott

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Speaker 4: Morrison and that's sort.

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Speaker 2: Of sugar yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: But they all sort of go into authoritarian governments, aren't they,

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Speaker 3: you know, left wing style governments. We haven't seen a

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Speaker 3: re election of a Conservative government under a post pandemic.

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Speaker 2: Well, there hasn't. None of them have been in power

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Speaker 2: like right now though, have they any of the considered.

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Speaker 3: If you want to run lockdown, get the Labor Party in.

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Speaker 3: You know, they're good at that author unitarian style government,

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Speaker 3: that's what they're well, they're a socialists, but that they're

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Speaker 3: outwardly and will tell you that they are a socialist party.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the lockdown in w A at the moment. Actually, well,

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Speaker 2: while that comes up, they have obviously gone into lockdown.

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Speaker 2: I think it's I can't remember what day it's until,

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Speaker 2: but they're certainly in lockdown at the moment. But now

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Speaker 2: they've got these bushfires in parts of.

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Speaker 3: One case one case, so they go in a lockdown. See,

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Speaker 3: this is a good example of why you know, socialist

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Speaker 3: governments will be elected people.

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Speaker 2: Different locations and does it, you know, does it?

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Speaker 1: But it's one person, you know, with a disease. It's

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Speaker 1: the result of effect.

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Speaker 4: If that's better in the community, could.

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Speaker 3: Have been.

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Speaker 2: Well into lockdowns, Mattie, I thought I.

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Speaker 4: Just made DT lost for words there for a second.

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Speaker 3: Well you did, I mean, I'm stun I'm stunned at

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Speaker 3: your reasoning, Maddie.

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Speaker 4: Sorry, philosophy.

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Speaker 2: And it's been the tag then.

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Speaker 1: Hope that no one notices.

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Speaker 2: It's funny, isn't it. It's been the fact that many

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Speaker 2: locations or many states have taken at this point in time,

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Speaker 2: and I reckon it wasn't until the one in Queensland

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Speaker 2: recently that I'd sort of heard some communities start to

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Speaker 2: now push back a little bit and go, hang on

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Speaker 2: a second, why are we going into a lockdown for

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Speaker 2: several days when there's only a couple of cases, Whereas

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Speaker 2: previously people had sort of gone along with it and

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Speaker 2: not argued too much. I know that. I mean, obviously

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Speaker 2: the consequence can be dire if it does spread, But

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Speaker 2: then the consequence is quite a difficult one for business.

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Speaker 3: How about the consequence, like you know, for these state governments,

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Speaker 3: it's all care and their responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Look at this silly palichet lady.

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Speaker 3: In Queensland, you know, locks down the state, you know,

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Speaker 3: one of the worst, you know, aside from uh Cham

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Speaker 3: and Dean and all made over there in w A again.

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Speaker 1: Locks are joint down.

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Speaker 3: And then in the next breath sits there and says

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Speaker 3: Sky has got to give them more because their economy

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Speaker 3: is ruined. You go, well, hang on, you're the one

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Speaker 3: who ruins your economy. You're the one who shut everything down.

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Speaker 3: You're now realizing that you've actually, you know, smashed up

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Speaker 3: a whole lot of businesses, You've put a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of people onto the breadline, and now you're sitting there

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Speaker 3: with your hand out saying to scam, Oh, come on,

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Speaker 3: you've got to step in and fix it.

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Speaker 1: Well, come on, you know it's the same as this McGowan.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: Next thing is the economy will tank, which pretty well

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Speaker 3: has in every one of these places where they've had

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Speaker 3: a lockdown.

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Speaker 1: Victoria.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what their debts running out at the moment,

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Speaker 3: but it's going through the roof. But the only one

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Speaker 3: holding the cairn is the FEDS. Well, and like I say,

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Speaker 3: it's all care and their responsibility. They don't care these

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Speaker 3: state governments.

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Speaker 2: And look, it's a difficult one. I know, Dave, I

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Speaker 2: certainly know where you stand, and I know that other

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Speaker 2: people stand on the other side where they're saying, we'll

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Speaker 2: hang on. We've got to make sure that we stay safe.

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Speaker 2: It is like it is difficult, but from how good.

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Speaker 3: Is it when you don't have a job or your

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Speaker 3: business has been sent to the wall, if you're a

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Speaker 3: public servant or you work at the ABC. But for

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Speaker 3: everybody else you know that that's got a job in

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Speaker 3: the private sector, might work in terrorism or hospitality. You know,

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Speaker 3: these are dreadful times that they're going through. Massive our people,

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Speaker 3: and you know, govern says, oh, but we're keeping you safe.

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Speaker 3: You go, all right, So you've just put my whole

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Speaker 3: family into poverty. But thank god.

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Speaker 1: Actually, I take your point on board.

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Speaker 2: I definitely take your point on board, because I reckon

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Speaker 2: the pushback is getting a little bit stronger now in

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Speaker 2: some locations where people are saying, well, hang on, why

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Speaker 2: do we need to go into lockdown for several days

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Speaker 2: when it is just one case? But obviously, you know,

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Speaker 2: the point that a lot of our politicians are pushing

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Speaker 2: is that they're trying their best to stop the spread

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Speaker 2: of COVID. So no matter which side of the of

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Speaker 2: the argument you're on, there, there's certainly a lot of

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Speaker 2: conflicting arguments I think you'd say when it comes to

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Speaker 2: COVID and lockdowns. But I want to move along because

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Speaker 2: I want to talk about this Collingwood report and Collingwood

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Speaker 2: President Eddie Maguire has told The Magpie is faithful that

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Speaker 2: he got it wrong the tabling of the historic report

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Speaker 2: into racism at the club a proud day as a

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Speaker 2: key Collingwood sponsor admits that it's deeply concerned and disappointed

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Speaker 2: by the report's findings. Now on a Zoom call held

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Speaker 2: for the club's annual general meeting, the long standing president

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Speaker 2: said that he didn't mean to convey that it was

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Speaker 2: a proud day for Collingwood when the contents of a

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Speaker 2: report into the club's history of alleged racism was prematurely

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Speaker 2: leaked to the media, and he said, over the course

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Speaker 2: of an hour, we answered every question. But in my

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Speaker 2: opening I got it wrong. I said it was a

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Speaker 2: proud day for Collingwood, and I shouldn't have under the

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Speaker 2: pressure of the day. The use of the word proud

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Speaker 2: was wrong. I did not I did not mean we

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Speaker 2: were proud of past incidents of racism and the hurt

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Speaker 2: that it had caused. Obviously, you know it's a thirty

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Speaker 2: five page independent report. It found that Collingwood had an

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Speaker 2: unhealthy culture of protecting individuals ahead of the club and

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Speaker 2: was promoted by former player. Obviously, sorry, was prompted by

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Speaker 2: one of the former players and claims of racism. I

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Speaker 2: mean nobody like, I don't know what.

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Speaker 1: He Who did this independent report that.

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Speaker 2: You said, I need I need to have a look

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Speaker 2: exactly who permissioned? Yes, of course she is.

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Speaker 3: A lady called Larissa Marent. Okay, you remember she's the

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Speaker 3: one who took Andrew Bolt to court.

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Speaker 1: Oh did you Yeah, she's.

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Speaker 3: One of the leading aboriginal activists in the country. Well,

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Speaker 3: I mean they go and get to do a report,

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Speaker 3: isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Like at the end of the day, though, You've got

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Speaker 2: you've got players that are saying that racism systemic in

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Speaker 2: the club. Like that enough should I mean that alone

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Speaker 2: should be enough to kind of make you go, hang

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Speaker 2: on a second, do we need to maybe change the

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Speaker 2: way we're doing things like that?

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Speaker 1: I dream and I tell you what. You know, this

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Speaker 1: is so funny.

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Speaker 3: You know that this is Collingwood, right, They're a Victorian club.

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Speaker 3: They're as woke as they come. They are as woke

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Speaker 3: as they come. You know, Collingwood was one of the

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Speaker 3: first clubs to line up behind Michael Long and his

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Speaker 3: Long Walk. All of the Collingwood players took the knee

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Speaker 3: in the BLM protests and all of this sort of stuff.

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Speaker 3: They've you know, Eddie McGuire himself does enormous work in

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Speaker 3: remote communities helping indigenous He got a word wrong, right,

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Speaker 3: And they've got they've engaged a woman called Larissa Barrent

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Speaker 3: And this is one of the people who are peddling

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Speaker 3: identity politics so hard it is not funny they dragged

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Speaker 3: to do.

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Speaker 2: We've got people saying that they've been you know, like

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Speaker 2: that they've been treated.

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Speaker 1: In a way.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but these are the same people who believe that

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Speaker 3: Australia is a racist country.

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Speaker 2: In some ways, maybe we are, well, I can tell.

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Speaker 1: You we absolutely are. We absolutely are.

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Speaker 3: And when you look at Australia and you look at

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Speaker 3: what we do, you know everything is based on race

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Speaker 3: and skin color. We've got a Closing the Gap report

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Speaker 3: that comes out totally based on race. It's not based

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Speaker 3: on disadvantage or anything like that. It's based on how

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Speaker 3: Aboriginal people compared to the rest of Australia. It's race

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Speaker 3: based report. You know that we've every everywhere you look

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Speaker 3: in our community, disadvantage is now being determined by race,

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Speaker 3: not by location. It's not being determined by someone's economic

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Speaker 3: status for instance, like this, this thing about the voice,

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Speaker 3: you know, is to give Indigenous Australians a voice in

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Speaker 3: the Federal Parliament. That's not based on disadvantage. The people

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Speaker 3: pushing this, Noel Pearson, Marcia Langton, mac Good and Mick Dodson,

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Speaker 3: you couldn't call them disadvantaged in any way, shape or

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Speaker 3: form and any way shape or form.

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Speaker 1: And yet they have.

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Speaker 3: Got the audacity to say, oh, we speak for disadvantaged people.

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Speaker 1: Well they don't. They dn't at all, they don't.

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Speaker 3: I'd be very surprised if they know too many disadvantaged people.

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Speaker 3: But how can you sit there and say when you're

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Speaker 3: on a couple of hundred grand saying, oh, we speak

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Speaker 3: for disadvantaged people.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, at the end of the day, the three

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Speaker 2: of us don't actually speak for Aboriginal people.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Australia being a racist country.

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Speaker 3: Now you go and try and get a contract in

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Speaker 3: a remade area in the Northern Territory, right, the first

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Speaker 3: thing that you have to do is demonstrate how much Indigenous,

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Speaker 3: how many Indigenous people you employ before you're even looked at.

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Speaker 2: It's not about make sure that jobs and opportunities.

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Speaker 1: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 3: So it's not about whether a person is qualified to

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Speaker 3: do a job, what type of job they do, whether

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Speaker 3: they do a good job or not. It's based on

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Speaker 3: their skin color. And everybody knows in the territory. You

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Speaker 3: look at these places, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, they'll go

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Speaker 3: and get their quota of Aborigines that they need on

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Speaker 3: the books, they push them over there.

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Speaker 1: They sit under a tree.

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Speaker 2: They don't learn anything that you're making.

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Speaker 3: A side in the house or the building or whatever

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Speaker 3: it is that they're doing is twice the cost of

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Speaker 3: what it was, which hurts too well, which hurts the

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Speaker 3: indigenous people themselves are very people have put there to help.

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Speaker 3: But no, but we focus on race all the time

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Speaker 3: in this country.

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Speaker 1: And it's a disgrace.

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Speaker 3: What happened to Martin Luther King when he said, you know,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to be judged by the color of

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Speaker 3: my skin, but the character of my content, the character, sorry,

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Speaker 3: the content of my character.

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Speaker 1: I'll get that right, the content of my character.

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Speaker 3: Where do we judge people by the content of their

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Speaker 3: character and not by the color of their scheme.

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Speaker 2: I take on board what you're saying. I actually think

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Speaker 2: some of the points you make are very valid ones.

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Speaker 1: But but you've got a Risca Waranti.

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Speaker 2: Talking about Collingwood Football Club and we're actually talking about

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Speaker 2: systemic racism.

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Speaker 1: People within that systemic racism.

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Speaker 2: You've actually got players who are not white. You know,

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Speaker 2: they're actually players who are saying that they've faced racism

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Speaker 2: within the club. Like to me, you know you kind

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Speaker 2: of go is it?

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Speaker 3: Sorry Katy, Sorry Katie, but have you seen the report?

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Speaker 3: Have you looked at the report?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: The reports about racism? This guy that that's kicked.

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Speaker 1: This whole thing off.

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Speaker 3: I think he's Cameroon or he was born in somewhere

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Speaker 3: in Africa or what not. He's a dark skinned guy anyhore.

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Speaker 3: But he's certainly not indigenous.

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Speaker 1: But all of the recommendations, well, it does when you

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Speaker 1: have a look.

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Speaker 2: At the report.

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Speaker 3: It does when you have a look at the report, because,

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Speaker 3: like I say, the report has been written by one

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Speaker 3: of Australia's leading Aboriginal identity politics activists.

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Speaker 1: Right, this isn't a person who's got no skin in

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Speaker 1: the game.

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Speaker 3: And I found it interesting when you said an independent

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Speaker 3: report she is far off.

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Speaker 1: The ABC website. Well good ass, all right.

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Speaker 3: But the point is, you know, they get some gun

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Speaker 3: for hire to come in and write a story about

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Speaker 3: the systemic racism in one of the most woke sporting

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Speaker 3: clubs in this country by far, you know, and then say.

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Speaker 2: Go for it, madd do you reckon?

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Speaker 4: I don't have half the opinion, the part of the

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Speaker 4: opinion that DT has on this.

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Speaker 2: He even bought notes today he's coming with like portfolios previously,

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Speaker 2: So that was just on the back of.

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Speaker 1: A napkin.

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Speaker 2: Identity politics, politics of envy.

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Speaker 4: I was very shocked by Eddie McGuire's comments calling it

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Speaker 4: a proud day for the club. If you look at

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Speaker 4: who Eddie is here is one of Australia's most seasoned

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Speaker 4: media performers through radio, television, commentary, his role within the

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Speaker 4: Collingwood Football Club in the AFL as well. So you know,

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Speaker 4: you hear of a lot of CEOs and presidents making blunders.

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Speaker 4: But for someone like him that understands the political and

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Speaker 4: media landscape incredibly well better than most, he would know that.

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Speaker 4: You know, words carry meaning and I think to use

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Speaker 4: that proud. You know, if in ten years time of

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Speaker 4: a report came out and said we've actually done a

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Speaker 4: lot with in this air, We've changed things, we've changed

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Speaker 4: the culture and we are proud of this report. It

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Speaker 4: does say we've got more to go, but it really

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Speaker 4: didn't hid a higher any of the good things within

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Speaker 4: the clubs. So I was very surprised.

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Speaker 2: You know, for me, I like I do think to

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Speaker 2: myself and Dave, obviously you've got very strong opinions on

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Speaker 2: this and some of the points you made are ones

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Speaker 2: that I know a lot of people will agree with.

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Speaker 2: There are others, though that you've made that that people

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Speaker 2: will absolutely not agree with. And I think that at well,

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Speaker 2: it highlights the fact that within Australia we've certainly got

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Speaker 2: very differing views on everything well, you know, about lots

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Speaker 2: of different topics. And for me, you know, some people

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Speaker 2: listening might be thinking, oh, they don't like what you've said,

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Speaker 2: but we all, you know, we always make sure that

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Speaker 2: we have the discussions on here that can be for

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Speaker 2: some people, you know, for sometimes they can be a

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Speaker 2: bit heated or a bit uncomfortable. But I think that

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Speaker 2: it's important for everybody to be able to have an opinion.

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Speaker 2: But I look, I would have liked it as well.

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Speaker 2: I did ask Kenny Vows whether it could come on today.

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Speaker 2: It would have been good to have an Indigenous person.

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Speaker 1: It would have been. But just go back to Maddie.

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Speaker 2: You know we.

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Speaker 4: Do.

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Speaker 3: But you talk about this word proud now, Like I say,

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Speaker 3: Eddie McGuire and the point you make, Eddie McGuire has

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Speaker 3: been everywhere in the media.

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Speaker 1: He understands everything.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean, this is Eddie himself doing his own

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Speaker 3: little bit of virtue signaling on behalf of Collingwood.

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Speaker 1: Look at us.

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Speaker 3: We've done a report, we've done a review. That's something

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Speaker 3: we're proud of. Now all of a sudden, everyone takes

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Speaker 3: that in a misconstrued right, he did stop.

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Speaker 2: It up, David, you can't say that he did.

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Speaker 1: It's a proud day for Collingwood.

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Speaker 3: He honestly believe that we've attacked this thing head on.

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Speaker 2: It's basically he's apologized. Basically because he's soapologized.

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Speaker 3: Instead of sitting there explaining himself and trying to say, listen,

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Speaker 3: we're proud of this because we attack the issue head on,

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Speaker 3: he doesn't. He comes out and say, oh, I'm so

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Speaker 3: sorry that I offended. Everybody took the knee.

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Speaker 2: So not the first time that Eddie McGuire has said

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Speaker 2: things that aren't entirely appropriate, right, and they are you know,

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Speaker 2: some have said that they're racist. We're gonna have to

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Speaker 2: wrap up. I'm very sorry, Dave. I know you could

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Speaker 2: continue on for a lot longer, but unfortunately we've only

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Speaker 2: got half an hour and we've got two minutes to

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Speaker 2: get to the news. Thank you, Maddie. We'll talk to

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Speaker 2: you again very shortly for the local news. It is

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Speaker 2: just a couple of minutes away from the national news,

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Speaker 2: and that was the big issues