Speaker 1: This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land. Hi guys, and
Speaker 1: welcome back to another episode of Life on Cut.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura, I'm Brittany.
Speaker 1: Today's guest that we have is someone who's statistically on
Speaker 1: this podcast is our favorite guest because this will be
Speaker 1: her third time back here.
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure we've ever done a three.
Speaker 3: Time what have we No, That's why she's statistically our favorite,
Speaker 3: because it's the only person who has ever done three episodes.
Speaker 1: But that's because, I mean, every time we have spoken
Speaker 1: to Terry Cole, there have been real aha moments that
Speaker 1: both Britt and myself have had around our own lives,
Speaker 1: our own personality traits. We've spoken around cheating, We've done
Speaker 1: episodes on boundaries. We were speaking about boundaries on our
Speaker 1: last ep that we did with Terry, and we were
Speaker 1: talking about high functioning codependence. And I remember sitting there
Speaker 1: during that conversation, I had this moment where I was
Speaker 1: like ping.
Speaker 2: But to give you a little bit of a background.
Speaker 1: On this, I think so many of us have a
Speaker 1: perception around what codependent means, and it is not necessarily
Speaker 1: a very positive label that we would put on ourselves.
Speaker 1: I think we often think clingy, we think needy, we
Speaker 1: think can't not be in a relationship. But this definition
Speaker 1: and conversation around what a high functioning codependent is something
Speaker 1: that's really different, and I honestly think so many people
Speaker 1: will have that same aha moment. Who'll be listening to
Speaker 1: this episode? So Terry, welcome back to the pod.
Speaker 4: Why thanks for having me, Laura and britt.
Speaker 3: Terry, you have been in this industry psychotherapist, like twenty years,
Speaker 3: You've written multiple books. What was it that led you
Speaker 3: now to specialize in this high functioning codependency.
Speaker 4: It's really just what I saw. I've actually been a
Speaker 4: therapist for twenty seven year, but it's really what I saw,
Speaker 4: you know. I mean, what was happening for me is
Speaker 4: that in my therapy practice, I attracted women who were
Speaker 4: like me, which was super highly capable women like just
Speaker 4: the masters of the universe, like doing it in the
Speaker 4: world and managing businesses and homes and families and aging
Speaker 4: parents and all the things like just having it going on.
Speaker 4: And then I would see a relational pattern. If I
Speaker 4: pointed it out and say, hey, what I'm seeing this
Speaker 4: is codependent behavioral pattern, they would immediately reject, immediately go yeah, wrong, lady.
Speaker 4: Everyone depends on me. I'm the one making all the dough,
Speaker 4: making all the decisions, making all the moves, moving everything forward,
Speaker 4: doing all the emotional labor. Like I'm the rock in
Speaker 4: my family and in my friend group, and like I'm
Speaker 4: not dependent on shit is basically what they would say.
Speaker 4: And I realized they don't know what codependency is. They
Speaker 4: think that codependency is codependent. No more melody, baby, You
Speaker 4: got to be enabling an alcoholic to be a codependent.
Speaker 4: And like you guys said, weak dependent can't make a
Speaker 4: decision like the long suffering wife of like the debtor
Speaker 4: who's going out and spending the rent money. You know
Speaker 4: what I mean. But that ain't it. And that wasn't
Speaker 4: what I was seeing in my therapy practice and what
Speaker 4: I had experienced myself. So I my definition of codependency
Speaker 4: is being overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes,
Speaker 4: the situations, the circumstances, the relationships, the careers of the
Speaker 4: people in our lives, to the detriment of our own
Speaker 4: internal peace.
Speaker 2: How does one identify that in themselves?
Speaker 1: Though, because I think the alternate, this original understanding of
Speaker 1: what codependency is it's way easier to point out. It's
Speaker 1: way easy to be like, oh, that's someone who can't
Speaker 1: be without a man or can't be without a person.
Speaker 1: But the definition of what you've just described, I feel
Speaker 1: like the line is so blurred between figuring out, oh,
Speaker 1: maybe I have high functioning codependency or I'm just super
Speaker 1: invested in my family and my friends and my loved
Speaker 1: ones and my businesses.
Speaker 4: All right, So I'm going to say exactly how you
Speaker 4: can figure it out. First of all, how you feel. Right,
Speaker 4: if you are going to do a quick resentment inventory,
Speaker 4: anybody listening to this or watching them, yes, and that's
Speaker 4: going to show you in what relationships you are most
Speaker 4: likely overfunctioning overgiving because the overfunctioning underfunctioning dynamic creates resentment.
Speaker 4: So if you're doing all the things for all the people,
Speaker 4: and you're invested in the people that you love, and
Speaker 4: you feel congreat and you have no resentment and you're
Speaker 4: not exhausted and burnt out, then go you. Then it's fine.
Speaker 4: And even if it is high functioning codependency, that can
Speaker 4: also be a choice. You can say, hey, this is
Speaker 4: my identity and I want to be that way. What
Speaker 4: I'm finding is that it's not sustainable that right, like
Speaker 4: what you could do like in your twenties for a
Speaker 4: long time as you age start hitting perimenopause menopause, you
Speaker 4: just don't have the bandwidth to do all the things
Speaker 4: for all the people. So maybe it would be helpful
Speaker 4: if we identify it what are the traits of high
Speaker 4: functioning codependence so that people can see like do they
Speaker 4: see themselves in these traits? And then we could talk
Speaker 4: about behaviors really because that's how you're going to be
Speaker 4: able to go is this me or is this not me?
Speaker 4: If we look at the traits feeling overly responsible to
Speaker 4: fix other people's problems, let's just start there, giving, like
Speaker 4: going above and beyond, giving till it hurts, even if
Speaker 4: you're not asked to, always ready to jump into damage
Speaker 4: control there's a problem and you're like, okay, so you're
Speaker 4: going to do this. I'm going to do this like
Speaker 4: your great in a crisis. It can also look like
Speaker 4: kind of being a little judgmental of other people because
Speaker 4: we really do think that we know what they should
Speaker 4: be doing. We really do have the solutions for them,
Speaker 4: and if they would just listen, then they wouldn't be
Speaker 4: in pain, and we would be so much happier if
Speaker 4: they would just take our friggant advice, because we can
Speaker 4: get frustrated and pissed when they don't take our advice,
Speaker 4: because now they're still complaining about the same shit that
Speaker 4: we could have solved. We did solve two weeks ago,
Speaker 4: they just didn't take action on feeling exhausted, resentful, bitter.
Speaker 4: Another trait is being hyper independent, where you're not the
Speaker 4: best at asking for help or allowing people to help you,
Speaker 4: where you're sort of like the mantra of the HFC
Speaker 4: is I got it, I'm good. We don't love it.
Speaker 4: We don't love being vulnerable to other people, which is
Speaker 4: what asking for help makes us. So it's like that
Speaker 4: hyperindependence is really something that's there, and what does it
Speaker 4: look like like in your day to day life? If
Speaker 4: you're like, hmm, I wonder if I'm an HFC, well,
Speaker 4: do you give untolicited advice called auto advice giving the
Speaker 4: second a situation happens, are you immediately like, Okay, I've
Speaker 4: got the answer, So I'm going to google this, I
Speaker 4: talk to this person. I'm connecting you with my friend
Speaker 4: who's an MD. Like we're doing all the things for
Speaker 4: other people, and.
Speaker 3: You don't even know that you is sitting next to
Speaker 3: them at the cafe, just overheard the conversation.
Speaker 4: Fact literally, those are true stories which I shared in
Speaker 4: the book about you could be codependently attached if you're
Speaker 4: an HFC to people you just friggin meet. So there
Speaker 4: are some distinctions between sort of the old school self sacrificing.
Speaker 4: We talked about auto accommodating, right, what is auto accommodating.
Speaker 4: I share a story in the book. I'm at my
Speaker 4: hair salon in Manhattan. It's like a busy Saturday and
Speaker 4: I'm laying in the sink because I have a ask
Speaker 4: on my hair and now the sink traffic is backing up,
Speaker 4: and the more it backs up, the more anxious I'm getting.
Speaker 4: Here's me just laying taking a sink. I don't even
Speaker 4: need a fucking sink. I could be sitting somewhere like
Speaker 4: I don't need you know. I raised my hand. I
Speaker 4: have the assistant come over. I'm like, you know, I
Speaker 4: could move. She's like, yeah, lady, how you doing. We
Speaker 4: got it. We do this every Saturday. So that's auto accommodating.
Speaker 4: I took it upon me. Terry Cale I should, I
Speaker 4: should be responsible for the sink flow at my busy
Speaker 4: hair salon.
Speaker 3: But is that not just because you're a normal person
Speaker 3: that has some level of empathy and you can see
Speaker 3: that you're inconveniencing other people, even if it is indirectly.
Speaker 3: It's not you. You don't own the salon. But I
Speaker 3: feel like I would do the same thing. I would
Speaker 3: feel like, why are we stopping this flow? And I'm
Speaker 3: stopping the next person from getting there, shit done and
Speaker 3: getting out just because I'm laying here.
Speaker 4: But it's not though, you know, Britt, it's like it
Speaker 4: sounds like that. But here's the thing that was not
Speaker 4: my side of the street. The girl who was running
Speaker 4: that sink flow could if she needed me to move,
Speaker 4: she would have asked me. She has eyes too, she
Speaker 4: saw that I was laying there doing nothing right. So
Speaker 4: it isn't that it wasn't my side of the street.
Speaker 4: But I was so codependently dialed into my environment it
Speaker 4: made me so uncomfortable that I was trying to fix
Speaker 4: what wasn't mine to fix. And here's why we should
Speaker 4: give a shit. What is the cost of doing that?
Speaker 4: The hypervigilance I could be laying there meditating, calling my mother,
Speaker 4: doing nothing, resting my exhausted brain. But instead you wonder
Speaker 4: why my brain was exhausted. I was not doing that.
Speaker 4: I was thinking about how they could have a better
Speaker 4: sink flow, and I was going to tell someone my
Speaker 4: idea in the middle of my ten minutes laying there
Speaker 4: like incorrect.
Speaker 1: You said something, and my very first thought was, but
Speaker 1: isn't that a contradiction to the literal definition of independence?
Speaker 1: You were like, it's the person who is so self
Speaker 1: sufficient that they can't take help, that they're so independent
Speaker 1: that they repel help.
Speaker 2: How are those things connected?
Speaker 4: Well, they are because we can be hyper helpers to
Speaker 4: other people and we love the I mean, listen, there's
Speaker 4: a helpers high. That shit is real right where it
Speaker 4: feels amazing to help someone who's in a jam or
Speaker 4: to come up with a solution and someone's like, oh,
Speaker 4: thank God for you. You know, there's a high that comes
Speaker 4: along with that. So you can be that and not
Speaker 4: want to allow someone else to do that for you,
Speaker 4: because to do that, you must be in that state
Speaker 4: of vulnerability, and when you're in HFC, it doesn't feel good.
Speaker 4: We're very comfortable and we may not even be conscious
Speaker 4: of it. But we're very comfortable giving and doing and
Speaker 4: providing and helping and saving, right, we're super comfortable putting
Speaker 4: on that cape. We don't want to be a burden
Speaker 4: to other people. We don't want to owe other people.
Speaker 4: These are other reasons besides the vulnerability. But part of
Speaker 4: it is if an HFC, if you let someone do something,
Speaker 4: you feel like you owe them, kind of like there's
Speaker 4: a lack of mutuality in some of the relationships with ahfcs.
Speaker 1: I think that this is why it's so hard for
Speaker 1: someone who is a high functioning codependent to figure out
Speaker 1: that that's what they are, because you would see those
Speaker 1: traits as being I've got this, I'm independent, like you know,
Speaker 1: and exactly like you said, some of these women who
Speaker 1: may display these characteristics may very well be the breadwinner
Speaker 1: in their family, you know, and those attributes don't lend
Speaker 1: themselves to your classical ideologies around codependency. And so that's
Speaker 1: why when we were having that conversation, when we were
Speaker 1: talking about boundaries, I had this real moment and I
Speaker 1: know that in some of my past relationships, I've definitely
Speaker 1: displayed codependent tendencies, but I definitely didn't think it permeated
Speaker 1: all through my life, and then the more we spoke
Speaker 1: about it, the more we were like, oh, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I see this.
Speaker 2: Now can we draw a.
Speaker 3: Picture here for everyone and just really simplify what takes
Speaker 3: something from codependency to high functioning code dependency. What are
Speaker 3: those characteristics that a high functioning person has that a
Speaker 3: normal codependent person doesn't have.
Speaker 4: Well, part of it is that the irony of HFC
Speaker 4: is that the more capable you are, the less codependency
Speaker 4: looks like codependency, but it still is codependency. So again
Speaker 4: the same way, my clients were not identified with codependency
Speaker 4: the old school definition. And so why it matters is
Speaker 4: because if you're an HFC, nobody's checking on you, you
Speaker 4: know what, because you're fine, right, You're always fine. We're
Speaker 4: the ones checking on other people usually, So really it's
Speaker 4: just a way of outing people. Where the way that HFC,
Speaker 4: the way our codependency and our boundary crossing, because that
Speaker 4: is what it is shows up is auto advice giving,
Speaker 4: auto accommodating, overfunctioning, overgiving, taking on more responsibility in the relationship,
Speaker 4: being like I got it, having the over and underfunctioning
Speaker 4: where you know, I would tell a joke that you know,
Speaker 4: in my twenties, I could take a perfectly functioning boy
Speaker 4: and turn him into an underfunctioner in two weeks or less.
Speaker 4: You know what I mean, Because I would just like
Speaker 4: do it all. I got it, Like, just just relax,
Speaker 4: I got it all. And it's almost like your value
Speaker 4: sometimes is in the doing and being the person that
Speaker 4: everyone comes to for, you know what I mean, for
Speaker 4: whatever they know they can count on you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I think sometimes we get stuck in idjusted
Speaker 3: it to my partner this morning on the way here.
Speaker 2: We get stuck in it.
Speaker 3: It's easier if I just do it, Like it's easier
Speaker 3: for you to just send me that and I will
Speaker 3: do it, then tell you how to do it now
Speaker 3: and walk you through it. So I think a lot
Speaker 3: of people get sucked into that vacuum. But we tend
Speaker 3: to talk about and see HFC in this negative bubble
Speaker 3: like it has this negative connotation to it. Can it
Speaker 3: ever be a positive that someone is an HFC? Yep,
Speaker 3: I say it like they've got a disease and HFC.
Speaker 4: That's correct, That is correct. Here's the thing when we
Speaker 4: balance out the disordered boundaries and the overfunk in the
Speaker 4: auto right, the reactions of being an HFC. Being an
Speaker 4: HFC is your superpower, right, Your high capabilities don't suddenly
Speaker 4: go away because you get into recovery, which is all
Speaker 4: we can hope for with AHFC. There's no like curing it. Right,
Speaker 4: this is your nature, this is what you learned. It's
Speaker 4: a combination of nature and nurture. But when people on
Speaker 4: the Internet push back to me and they're like, maybe
Speaker 4: I'm just nice. How about that, Terry, Maybe I'm just generous?
Speaker 4: You ever think of that, I'm like, here's the thing.
Speaker 4: If you can't not do it, it's not you being nice, yea.
Speaker 4: If you can't not do it, it's a compulsion like
Speaker 4: any other compulsion. So I know we love to think
Speaker 4: of ourselves as mother Terisa, But what I'm saying to
Speaker 4: Internet people is that if you are compulsively doing this shit,
Speaker 4: it is not a choice. So it's not you consciously
Speaker 4: being nice. It's you automatically trying to change someone else's
Speaker 4: feelings or situation or circumstance because it is making you uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: I don't want to gender it, but I do see
Speaker 1: this in my friendship group. You have to see this
Speaker 1: with the women that I'm close with, you are often
Speaker 1: the ones that get lumped with a lot of the stuff.
Speaker 1: It's the mental load, it's the kids, it's the trying
Speaker 1: to maintain a friendship group, it's the trying to you know,
Speaker 1: have a successful career. So I wonder if it's sometimes
Speaker 1: hard for people to identify whether it's like almost as
Speaker 1: though they feel as though it's forced upon them, like
Speaker 1: figuring out like what is it that they're choosing and
Speaker 1: opting into doing because it's a characteristic of HC, or
Speaker 1: it's because it's literally the nature of which we live,
Speaker 1: where a lot of women are tasked with the burden
Speaker 1: of not only just being the care but the worker.
Speaker 2: And it's like you can do it all, and you've
Speaker 2: got to do it all at the same time.
Speaker 4: Indeed, but here's the thing. We have choices, And the
Speaker 4: thing is I think that what I hope this book
Speaker 4: does is bring those choices from the basement to the
Speaker 4: conscious part of the mind, because if what does a
Speaker 4: life look like if we just HFC it up until
Speaker 4: we're dead, Like, what does that life actually look like?
Speaker 4: It's not that satisfying, I can tell you for sure.
Speaker 4: And that the bitterness and the anger and the feeling
Speaker 4: put out and the feeling martyred. You know, you don't
Speaker 4: think that women in when they're twenty one, they're like,
Speaker 4: I can't wait to grow up and become a martyr.
Speaker 4: It's got to be amazing, Like nobody wants that, you
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. It happens over time and time
Speaker 4: and time and time and time when we're overgiving and
Speaker 4: we don't create equitable relationships in our lives. But you
Speaker 4: can change it. If you're in a situation where even
Speaker 4: if you've taken it all on because you're like, that's right,
Speaker 4: I'm superwoman. I can do it all. But maybe you're
Speaker 4: burnt out, or maybe you're resenting your partner, or maybe
Speaker 4: you don't have energy, or maybe you feel depressed, or
Speaker 4: maybe you've gained weight or whatever the things are, you know,
Speaker 4: or maybe you're going into perimenopause or menopause, and this
Speaker 4: creates a whole other ball of wax that we got
Speaker 4: to deal with. That gives us we don't have the
Speaker 4: same capacity when the hormones are because it's changing your brain.
Speaker 4: There's so many things that are going on you can change.
Speaker 4: So that's what I'm walk you through in the book
Speaker 4: is we have to be able to tolerate our own feelings
Speaker 4: because it's not your job to do what you're doing
Speaker 4: right now. In many of your relationships, it is not
Speaker 4: your job to fix other people's problems.
Speaker 3: It sounds like one of the main byproducts in a
Speaker 3: romantic relationship. Maybe not romantic, but is resentment. Like if
Speaker 3: you have this high functioning relationship for so long and
Speaker 3: you build resentment, And in my eyes, resentment is one
Speaker 3: of the hardest things to overcome in a relationship.
Speaker 2: I think, I think it's probably easier to don't come
Speaker 2: for me.
Speaker 3: I think it's easier to probably overcome a physical infidelity
Speaker 3: in one night than it is of fifteen years of
Speaker 3: resentment that's been built up.
Speaker 4: I will agree with that assessment, because the thing is
Speaker 4: a lot of times, if it's a one off with infidelity,
Speaker 4: that can be the trigger for a relationship. You know,
Speaker 4: not if somebody had a con separate family that you
Speaker 4: didn't know about, but if it really was a one
Speaker 4: night experience, that can be the catalyst to you know.
Speaker 4: Esta Parrel would say, you know, this can be the
Speaker 4: thing that brings that brings people really together and sort
Speaker 4: of you got to burn it down to rebuild it,
Speaker 4: but with resentment, and it's such a slow build with resentment,
Speaker 4: it's cumulative. So it's like all of the stuff you're
Speaker 4: not talking about, all of the truth that you may
Speaker 4: not be telling because you just want there to be peace.
Speaker 4: You just want everything to be okay. You want everyone
Speaker 4: to be okay. But that can only happen if you
Speaker 4: are actually okay. And if you feel burdened and underappreciated
Speaker 4: and exhausted, you're really not okay. And your relationship is
Speaker 4: not okay either because sooner or later there's going to
Speaker 4: be some kind of a crack. Right, it's going to
Speaker 4: come to a head. But you don't have to wait
Speaker 4: for that to happen. You can do an inventory right now.
Speaker 4: If you do a resentment inventory and you go, okay,
Speaker 4: I realize now I'm resenting my partner because they said
Speaker 4: they would do this with the kids, and they don't
Speaker 4: do it unless I ask them, and then I check,
Speaker 4: and then I set it up and then I'm the
Speaker 4: one who does the calling. You have to have a
Speaker 4: conversation that says, hey, here are the things that we
Speaker 4: do as a couple. Here are all the things. I
Speaker 4: was being interviewed by someone and she said, I'm having
Speaker 4: a seven hour meeting with my husband tomorrow. I was
Speaker 4: like wow, and she said, I realized she's like, my
Speaker 4: husband's great. I mean, people would consider him like he's modern.
Speaker 4: You know, he does a lot. But here's the thing.
Speaker 4: I still resent the shit out of him. I was
Speaker 4: like why, and she was like, because, first of all,
Speaker 4: he wants me to throw him up a parade when
Speaker 4: he does shit, and he has no idea how much
Speaker 4: that I do. Like he wants a parade for the
Speaker 4: four things that are on.
Speaker 2: His list when he packs the swashaw yeah.
Speaker 4: And she's like, and I don't want to give him
Speaker 4: that because he doesn't even know the one tenth of
Speaker 4: what I actually do to keep the shit running, like
Speaker 4: he does not know. And I was like, but babe,
Speaker 4: who's fault is that he doesn't know? Because you're not
Speaker 4: telling him, but you're holding him responsible for knowing even
Speaker 4: though he doesn't.
Speaker 1: But you will say that, and you get into this
Speaker 1: area of like schoolkeeping when you're doing that, when you're like,
Speaker 1: well you did this and I did this, and I
Speaker 1: feel like that is just you know, when you get
Speaker 1: to that point in a relationship when we're talking about resentment,
Speaker 1: like schoolkeeping is such a dangerous thing to do to
Speaker 1: your pot.
Speaker 4: The I'm going to disagree, and I'm going to tell
Speaker 4: you why. I agree that bean counting, scorekeeping bean county
Speaker 4: is not the way to go. But if you have
Speaker 4: a very lopsided relationship right now, where you're doing all
Speaker 4: the emotional labor, where you do all the cooking, all
Speaker 4: the kids, all the stuff, and have a career, there
Speaker 4: has to be a come to Jesus like, Okay, we
Speaker 4: need to rejigger this thing because it's not working. Right
Speaker 4: that moment of that lady being like there's four thousand
Speaker 4: things on my list and there's twenty on his list,
Speaker 4: I'm like, okay, Well, in your seven hour family meeting,
Speaker 4: I guess you can offload some of the stuff on
Speaker 4: your list or maybe see if you guys can that
Speaker 4: be Can we pay someone to do some of those
Speaker 4: things or whatever. But there has to be more fairness
Speaker 4: in a relationship. I'm not saying it has to be
Speaker 4: perfectly equitable. Definitely, you're going to do things better than
Speaker 4: your partner. Your partner's going to do things better than you,
Speaker 4: same for me, right. We all have our skill sets.
Speaker 4: So it isn't like I planned the vacation this time,
Speaker 4: you do it next time. It won't be that right
Speaker 4: because I would never let my husband plan vacation because
Speaker 4: he would just buy the airfareer. He would just be like,
Speaker 4: oh the airfare to LA it was forty five hundred dollars,
Speaker 4: Is that okay?
Speaker 2: Like No, my pounce would talk it for like the
Speaker 2: wrong year. I would never let him touch it.
Speaker 4: Right, So we know that, But then there are things
Speaker 4: that they do better as well. And I think that
Speaker 4: we have to come together in our unions and get real.
Speaker 4: If we set it up as if it were nineteen
Speaker 4: fifty but it's twenty twenty four, we might need to
Speaker 4: revisit and recalibrate how we're going to be doing these things.
Speaker 4: And yeah, people who are not going to love it sometimes,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But even that, even that, I would be devastated.
Speaker 3: If my partner came to me and was like, sit
Speaker 3: your ass down, I've blocked out our work day seven
Speaker 3: hours that we're going to go through all the shit,
Speaker 3: I'd be devastated.
Speaker 2: I would hope that we could get to a place where.
Speaker 3: You are letting each other know constantly, the constant communication.
Speaker 3: But I'm just as guilty of doing the opposite. I'm
Speaker 3: just just as guilty as them saying what's wrong and
Speaker 3: me being like nothing, don't worry about it.
Speaker 2: And then that's what.
Speaker 3: You said before, that slow creep of resentment that builds up,
Speaker 3: and then one day it's just there.
Speaker 2: It's so sneaking you don't see it. I'd love to know.
Speaker 3: What the effect is if you're an HFC, an effect
Speaker 3: on your children or those that you're bringing up, because
Speaker 3: I imagine that if there's a level of control and not.
Speaker 2: Letting them do anything, you're going to put a level
Speaker 2: of independence on those children. Sorry, not dependence, depend independent.
Speaker 4: I know what you meant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, my brain knew what I was trying to
Speaker 2: get out too.
Speaker 4: I got you. This is a really important reason why
Speaker 4: we want to stop the cycle. Right. Kids are like
Speaker 4: a perfect reason to do it better than perhaps our
Speaker 4: parents did it. What happens when we overfunction for children
Speaker 4: is that we are sending them a message. They're coming
Speaker 4: to us and saying, Mom, I'm I need help, can't
Speaker 4: do this, I don't know how to do it, and
Speaker 4: you saying you're right, you can't. I agree with you.
Speaker 4: You think you're a loser. Me too, So we're all
Speaker 4: on the same page that you're a loser and that
Speaker 4: mommy has.
Speaker 2: To say your shoelaces.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Now, I mean we want it to be age appropriate.
Speaker 5: Right, I'm gonna say that to my three year old
Speaker 5: the next time she wants a wife or as I'll
Speaker 5: be like, you do it, you do it three age appropriate.
Speaker 4: But what we want to teach kids is deductive reason
Speaker 4: and critical thinking. Right, So the first thing a kid
Speaker 4: comes to you and is like, I had a terrible day,
Speaker 4: this horrible thing happened. You know, you say what happened?
Speaker 4: They tell you this horrible thing, and then I got
Speaker 4: so mad, I like kicked the person in the leg
Speaker 4: or whatever they said. Instead of you being like, well,
Speaker 4: now you need to go and apologize, telling them what
Speaker 4: to do or solving their problem, the first step, right,
Speaker 4: the first step on the bus has to always be,
Speaker 4: no matter who you're talking to. Okay, before we get
Speaker 4: into it, what do you think you should do? Even
Speaker 4: asking little kids what they think they should do is okay,
Speaker 4: we're not going to let them do it. If they're
Speaker 4: like I think I should get a gun and shoot Bobby.
Speaker 4: We're obviously not going to let them do that, but
Speaker 4: we're teaching them to think, think through consequences, trust their gut.
Speaker 4: Whenever I'm talking to a little kid and they're wanting
Speaker 4: me to fix whatever it is, I'll say, listen, I
Speaker 4: know your gut instinct is good, So tell me what
Speaker 4: do you think you should do. We'll figure it out together. Like,
Speaker 4: I'm not going to abandon the kid, but we can
Speaker 4: teach children to problem solve instead of being so afraid
Speaker 4: of them making mistakes and so afraid for them. We
Speaker 4: treat kids nowadays a lot like they're super fragile and
Speaker 4: they're super not I.
Speaker 2: Have a question around, like where this comes from.
Speaker 1: We don't just show up in the world and be like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm a high functioning codependent all of a sudden, this
Speaker 1: just happened to me. What are the I guess, the
Speaker 1: predetermining factors that would make someone high functioning codependent.
Speaker 4: I mean, just look at the way we're raised. It
Speaker 4: all I hate to say it, but it all goes
Speaker 4: back to seeing the crime, which is the family of
Speaker 4: origin and childhood, and most of us were raised to
Speaker 4: kind of be good girls, where's my happy girl? Turn
Speaker 4: that friend around. If you don't have anything nice to say,
Speaker 4: don't say anything at all. Right, So we're taught to
Speaker 4: suppress our feelings if those feelings will not be liked
Speaker 4: by other people. We're taught to be hopeful the most thing.
Speaker 4: When I was being raised, being perceived as being nice
Speaker 4: was pretty much more important than anything else. Be nice,
Speaker 4: be a good girl. So we're really coming into this
Speaker 4: at a disadvantage because we have to learn to prioritize
Speaker 4: how we feel, what we want, what we think, and
Speaker 4: how we feel. And in this process of getting into recovery,
Speaker 4: you have to understand that those things are not just
Speaker 4: important what you think, what you want, and how you feel.
Speaker 4: It has to be literally the most important thing to you,
Speaker 4: more important than what anybody else wants, thinks, or feels.
Speaker 4: Now that's not to say we don't compromise in our relationships.
Speaker 4: Of course we do. This is how we have relationships.
Speaker 4: But for most people, we were taught to not prioritize
Speaker 4: what we think, what we want, and how we feel.
Speaker 4: And we have to. So we're unlearning a lot of
Speaker 4: home training. And then you have personality traits too. Some
Speaker 4: of us are just more people pleaser by nature as well,
Speaker 4: if you're an extrovert, if you're very positive, if you
Speaker 4: like to help, if you were a helper in your
Speaker 4: family system. Right, So there's all these different experiences we
Speaker 4: may have, and then we all have our unique relational blueprint,
Speaker 4: which is what you saw, how did the adults relate?
Speaker 4: Like an HFC blueprint is really a relational blueprint what
Speaker 4: we learned about how you're supposed to be in relationships.
Speaker 4: So if you had a people pleasing mom, if you
Speaker 4: had a mom who did all the things for all
Speaker 4: the people and nobody ever thanked her, you know you
Speaker 4: came by it naturally.
Speaker 1: Do people who who have characteristics or can see themselves
Speaker 1: as high functioning codependents? Are they more inclined to get
Speaker 1: into relationships that do not serve them and are negative
Speaker 1: and bad relationship so toxic relationships which we like to
Speaker 1: throw around. Or is it quite common that they will
Speaker 1: get into a great relationship but then still have high
Speaker 1: functioning attributes in that relationship.
Speaker 4: Both are true, so I can't say one is more common,
Speaker 4: but I have to say high functioning codependence getting involved
Speaker 4: in unhealthy relationships. So the overfunctioning and underfunctioning like being
Speaker 4: an HFC and getting in relationship with a narcissist. I mean,
Speaker 4: I did devote an entire chapter to that in this book,
Speaker 4: because the truth is, it is common and it makes
Speaker 4: sense if you're an HFC, right, you have a narcissist
Speaker 4: whose vibe is it is all about me. You have
Speaker 4: an HFC whose vibe is great, it's all about you.
Speaker 4: I want you to be happy. I want you to
Speaker 4: feel fulfilled. I want you to think I'm the best,
Speaker 4: and that sex is the best, and that we're having
Speaker 4: so much fun together and taking care of someone whose
Speaker 4: expectation is that you will. It's like a perfectly messed
Speaker 4: up fit. It's like that cracked pot find the perfectly
Speaker 4: cracked lid, and it is like a match made in heaven.
Speaker 4: I mean obviously, until it's in. How hell breaks loose?
Speaker 3: So is HFC or just codependency linked to say anxious
Speaker 3: attachment style?
Speaker 4: Honestly, I feel like any attachment style could be HFC.
Speaker 4: Now other people might disagree, but I identify myself as being
Speaker 4: pretty securely attached. I had a very present and responsive mother.
Speaker 4: I have the same friends I've had since Nixon was
Speaker 4: in office. And you probably don't even know who Nixon is.
Speaker 4: Thank you, You know what I mean. I've been with
Speaker 4: my husband twenty seven years, Like my ability to have
Speaker 4: long term relationships is there, and yet I was the
Speaker 4: most HFC of all the HFCs, And so what is
Speaker 4: it about? Part of it was my place in the family.
Speaker 4: I was the hero child. It was an alcoholic system,
Speaker 4: so I was the one who did good so the
Speaker 4: whole family could agree. If nothing else, everyone agreed I
Speaker 4: was amazing, you know what I mean. But none of
Speaker 4: those things free. So family systems roll in your family system.
Speaker 4: Attachment style certainly can play a part. But I got
Speaker 4: to say, I don't think any attachment style is free
Speaker 4: from potentially being an AHFC.
Speaker 1: When did you realize yourself? Well, I mean when you've
Speaker 1: done all the study, you've written the books. Literally, when
Speaker 1: was it that you were like, oh, this is me,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about myself.
Speaker 4: You know. It's interesting In the book, I tell the
Speaker 4: story and we might have talked about this, so I
Speaker 4: don't need to rehash. But there was a very painful
Speaker 4: experience with one of my sisters being in a terrible
Speaker 4: relationship with an abusive guy who was doing crack and
Speaker 4: she was drinking and they lived in a house without
Speaker 4: running water and electricity. This is one of my older
Speaker 4: sisters who like had a history of like bad dating life,
Speaker 4: and she was in this domestic horrendous domestic situation, which
Speaker 4: for an HFC means that every day of my life
Speaker 4: was a five alarm fire of like how can I
Speaker 4: get her out? What must I do? Like everything is possible. Also,
Speaker 4: when you're in HFC, you're really optimistic that if you
Speaker 4: just keep at it, you'll figure some shit out, whatever
Speaker 4: it is, you know. Yeah, So anyway, I was crying
Speaker 4: to my therapist and this is my I was in
Speaker 4: my late twenties then, and I was saying, Bev, I've
Speaker 4: done everything, I've done everything I can. What am I
Speaker 4: going to do? I was talking about my sister and
Speaker 4: she said, Terry, let me ask you something. What makes
Speaker 4: you think you know what your sister needs to learn
Speaker 4: in this lifetime and how she needs to learn it?
Speaker 4: And I was like, I don't know, but I think
Speaker 4: we can agree she doesn't need to do it with
Speaker 4: a crackhead in the woods without running water. I mean,
Speaker 4: is that can we agree with that? And she said, honestly,
Speaker 4: Tera I can't agree because I don't know what and
Speaker 4: how your sister needs to learn what she needs to
Speaker 4: learn in this life. And so I'm not God, and
Speaker 4: neither are you. And she said, but do you know
Speaker 4: what's going on for you? And I was like, obviously no,
Speaker 4: so help what is going on for me? Because I'm confused?
Speaker 4: And she said, You've worked really hard to create a
Speaker 4: pretty harmonious life and your sister's domestic dumpster fire is
Speaker 4: really messing with your piece, and you really want your
Speaker 4: pain to end. And I was like, you are not lying, BEV.
Speaker 3: That is fucking true, But can't both things be true
Speaker 3: at the same time. Can't you want your pain to end?
Speaker 3: And also you don't want your sister to be with
Speaker 3: a crackhead in the woods with no running water.
Speaker 4: Correct, that's true, But the way that I was going
Speaker 4: about it, I was trampling on my sister's sovereignty, her
Speaker 4: right to make her own decisions even if they suck.
Speaker 4: People have a right to succeed or fail, to thrive
Speaker 4: or flail without me being like this is too stressful
Speaker 4: for me. You need to get out of there now
Speaker 4: because I can't tolerate it. So what I did was.
Speaker 4: This is when I started. I was introduced to boundaries,
Speaker 4: and she was like, and you don't need to talk
Speaker 4: to her and let her tell you about this abusive guy. Like,
Speaker 4: you literally don't need to You need to protect your
Speaker 4: tender heart around this situation. So I drew a boundary
Speaker 4: talk to my sister, said, hey, I love you, and
Speaker 4: I'm going to step back if you ever want to
Speaker 4: get out, though I will always be your person. And
Speaker 4: within nine months we talked a couple of times. You know,
Speaker 4: it wasn't like I didn't cut her off or anything,
Speaker 4: but I wasn't entertaining this conversation because you know, we'd
Speaker 4: get off the phone after she's telling me the most
Speaker 4: horrible shit in the world, and she's like, I always
Speaker 4: feel so much better after talking to you. And I'm like,
Speaker 4: cause the toxic waste sight, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think it's codependence.
Speaker 1: We can do this, but fixing problems, we're keeping things
Speaker 1: going and actually we're not helping the problem. We're actually
Speaker 1: just enabling the behavior to continue.
Speaker 4: Yes, we're literally robbing the person of the experience that
Speaker 4: will get them to the place in themselves.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So with my sister, the ps on the story was
Speaker 4: nine months later. She called them, was like, hey, are
Speaker 4: you still my person? I definitely am ready now and
Speaker 4: I was like putting on my sneakers, jumped in my car,
Speaker 4: picked her up, She went back to school, She got sober,
Speaker 4: Like the most important ps is that instead of Terry
Speaker 4: and her cape saving her older sister, my sister got
Speaker 4: to be the hero of her own friggin story, got
Speaker 4: that self esteem, all respect from me to her, but
Speaker 4: also building a life that she loves. Not because I
Speaker 4: made that possible for her, because I paid for it,
Speaker 4: because I kicked him out or I called the police
Speaker 4: or whatever, because I tolerated the way it made me feel,
Speaker 4: which was horrible, until she got ready, And then I
Speaker 4: am appropriately helping her, me going to get her, helping
Speaker 4: her get back on her feet. That's appropriate, right, me
Speaker 4: deciding when and how she should leave, and I was
Speaker 4: going to make it happen, that's not appropriate. That was
Speaker 4: me overstepping it for my own pain.
Speaker 1: You know, Can you tell us what you mean by
Speaker 1: the terminology? Let them you speak about this idea, let
Speaker 1: them what does that mean to you? And how is
Speaker 1: that something that we should be implementing if we do
Speaker 1: kind of recognize, Okay, we are hfc's.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's funny. There's a couple of things I can
Speaker 4: give you to do in the moment that's helpful. And
Speaker 4: that's actually that's a Mel Robbins thing that I actually
Speaker 4: put in the book and obviously credit her, where she
Speaker 4: says when people are about to do something that you
Speaker 4: know is like whack, and they shouldn't do it, and
Speaker 4: you want to tell them not to do it, or
Speaker 4: you want to give advice, you want to control something,
Speaker 4: or you want to tell someone the best way that
Speaker 4: they should drive down wherever it is, that instead of
Speaker 4: saying it in your mind, just think, let them, let
Speaker 4: them live, let them go the way they want to go,
Speaker 4: let them do what they're going to do. And even
Speaker 4: though it's an illusion, why I think it's funny and
Speaker 4: why I mentioned it is that, of course it's an
Speaker 4: illusion because you're not actually letting them or not letting them.
Speaker 4: But what it signals to your central nervous system is
Speaker 4: that you can relax, like you're telling yourself in my vernacular,
Speaker 4: that's not my side of the street, right, that's for
Speaker 4: them to discover or that's for them to learn. So again,
Speaker 4: you know, Brett. I almost feel like you've got there's
Speaker 4: a black or white thinking that you have. That It
Speaker 4: almost means that what I'm saying perhaps is like just
Speaker 4: everyone every man for himself, Like you're on your own.
Speaker 4: I'm just being dice. Why are you judging me? But
Speaker 4: what I say is that there's a place between. And
Speaker 4: that's what we're talking about when we say let them,
Speaker 4: we are allowing people to make their own decisions because
Speaker 4: they do have a right to make mistakes the same
Speaker 4: way we do. And how I never would have learned.
Speaker 2: Why do I make mistakes? Terry?
Speaker 4: Please? Yeah, of course you don't. Obviously not obviously, I
Speaker 4: mean Laura does. That's different though I.
Speaker 2: Carry them for the boy of the us. Don't worry.
Speaker 1: Okay, But what about in the instance where this whole
Speaker 1: idea of letting them, let them, when the decision that
Speaker 1: they're making genuinely directly impacts your life, it makes your
Speaker 1: life hot.
Speaker 4: When we're talking about let them, I'm talking about you
Speaker 4: have a kid who's going to change their major now
Speaker 4: they want to become a chef, and you're like, that's
Speaker 4: a horrible life. I really don't think he's gonna like it.
Speaker 4: He's not even a good cook. I don't even know
Speaker 4: what the hell he's talking about. Instead of all of that,
Speaker 4: you say to yourself, let them. Yeah, he'll find it out,
Speaker 4: maybe up, maybe I'm wrong, he'll get fined, he'll be fine, exactly,
Speaker 4: he'll discover it on his own. When you're talking about
Speaker 4: we have a family, we are married, right. My husband
Speaker 4: came to me many years ago and was like, had
Speaker 4: this opportunity to go into a war zone too. He's
Speaker 4: an artist and he does on the spot drawing, and
Speaker 4: he's incredibly talented. He's very successful. And I did let him,
Speaker 4: but it was appropriate that he came to me to say,
Speaker 4: how do you feel about me going to Iraq to
Speaker 4: an active war zone? I was like, I mean terrible,
Speaker 4: but I'm not going to stop you because it's your dream.
Speaker 4: And then I don't want you to resent me, so
Speaker 4: go go, just don't die, please, which he did not.
Speaker 4: So he's gone more than once and he came back.
Speaker 4: If I had had children, young children, my kids are grown,
Speaker 4: I've got grand because at this point I do not
Speaker 4: think I don't think he would have asked me, but
Speaker 4: be if he did, I do not think I would
Speaker 4: have been like just let him. You got to live
Speaker 4: your life. No, I don't think so. If I have
Speaker 4: a six month old, yeah, you know when you can
Speaker 4: do that later when kids are grown. But we've decided
Speaker 4: together to have these children. Let's dissect this decision that
Speaker 4: you're going to make because you are not a single
Speaker 4: man about town, buddy. You are committed to me for life,
Speaker 4: or so he said, and we have kids. We're a kid,
Speaker 4: and that is something to consider. It does matter if
Speaker 4: it's going to burden you, you may still choose to support
Speaker 4: him in it. But the thing is it can't be
Speaker 4: his decision. This is a decision we make together. I
Speaker 4: wouldn't take a job that was going to suddenly put
Speaker 4: me on the road, you know, three weeks a month
Speaker 4: when we have a puppy or we have animals to
Speaker 4: take care of and assume that my husband was going
Speaker 4: to be like, that's cool, no problem, I'll let you
Speaker 4: live your life. You know, when we're in unions, this
Speaker 4: is where negotiation comes in. This is not across the
Speaker 4: board when we say let them. Is when we are
Speaker 4: going across getting from our side of the street to
Speaker 4: someone else's side of the street, and we can't wait
Speaker 4: to tell them what we really think they should do,
Speaker 4: and maybe we don't need.
Speaker 5: To do that.
Speaker 3: When we talk about codependency, the antithesis is I'm assuming
Speaker 3: hipA independence.
Speaker 2: Is that a negative thing? Or is that what we're
Speaker 2: striving to be.
Speaker 3: I feel like if I was to actually put myself
Speaker 3: in a category, I would probably say I am hyping independent.
Speaker 3: Don't But then some of the traits that you were
Speaker 3: saying about that can also look like codependency. I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe maybe I'm not just hyper independent. Maybe some of
Speaker 3: those parts are also codependent.
Speaker 4: But it is like I think dependent, Yes, well, you're
Speaker 4: a HFC for sure.
Speaker 3: I've lived alone forever. I don't ever ask people for help.
Speaker 3: I just don't even with my emotions. I don't unload
Speaker 3: on friends. I just keep everything to myself. I like
Speaker 3: to think of myself I could go to an island,
Speaker 3: and I like to think I could survive on my
Speaker 3: own for years.
Speaker 2: Like that is genuinely and I truly believe that.
Speaker 1: When I say that, it's so funny because Britt and
Speaker 1: you and you would never ever ever admit it, because
Speaker 1: I think it's like the antithesis of like who and
Speaker 1: how you want to be in life.
Speaker 2: But I I see you and think you're a high
Speaker 2: function of codependent completely. That's so interesting because I always
Speaker 2: I don't even choose people that are around me, Like
Speaker 2: I don't even date anyone in the same country because
Speaker 2: I don't want it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that's just having intimacy issues. That's just like,
Speaker 4: that's just you can have coexisting issues, right. That was
Speaker 4: I was saying, it's the only date non and other
Speaker 4: continents because I really wanted a relationship. My therapist was like,
Speaker 4: do you though, because I feel like you don't because
Speaker 4: you keep dating men who live in Greece anyway while
Speaker 4: you live in New York City. I want to speak
Speaker 4: to the hyperindependence because that is one of the traits
Speaker 4: of HFC, and one of the reasons for it is
Speaker 4: not wanting to be vulnerable. And the thing is to
Speaker 4: have the juicy, delicious, amazing life that you deserve, you
Speaker 4: have got to learn and allow yourself to be vulnerable
Speaker 4: to the right people. Now, that means we need to
Speaker 4: figure out who the book is emotionally trustworthy, Who gets
Speaker 4: to be in the VIP section of our lives, Who
Speaker 4: gets to be in the front row of our amazing lives?
Speaker 4: That shit is a privilege, should not be just general seating, right.
Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm cooked multiple things at once, multiply sh
Speaker 2: at on.
Speaker 4: Terry.
Speaker 2: I love speaking to you.
Speaker 1: I feel like every time we do have these conversations,
Speaker 1: I learned so much more around things that I would
Speaker 1: have thought were conflicting, and then I see how so
Speaker 1: many of these characteristics are interrelated. And that for me
Speaker 1: has been such an eye opener, unpacking, especially unpacking the
Speaker 1: decisions I've made in the past and kind of how
Speaker 1: I now show up in my relationship.
Speaker 2: So I'm very very grateful for that from a personal
Speaker 2: perspective as well.
Speaker 3: She also knows what she's going to say in the
Speaker 3: seven Hours sit down. She says with her husband Matt tomorrow.
Speaker 3: I think the last thing to is if we do
Speaker 3: if someone has now recognized this, they've listened to this,
Speaker 3: they're like, holy shit. I'm also Brittany, I also have
Speaker 3: multiple issues going on at once.
Speaker 2: What do they do?
Speaker 3: What are the steps that you're like, Okay, I'm an HFC,
Speaker 3: I'm doing this in my relationship.
Speaker 2: Let's put some proactive steps in place.
Speaker 4: Yes, I like it. Well, first of all, I have
Speaker 4: a gift which is proactive it's an HFC toolkit. It's free.
Speaker 4: Just go to Terry Cooll dot com forward slash HFC.
Speaker 4: That's going to be a beginning, because I have so
Speaker 4: many people who are like, help, where do I start.
Speaker 4: We already talked a little bit about doing a resentment inventory, right,
Speaker 4: So that's the beginning is being really honest with yourself.
Speaker 4: This requires, like, there's so much in the book about
Speaker 4: us becoming intimate with our own emotions, because as HFC
Speaker 4: is so much of the time, we're very familiar with
Speaker 4: other people's emotions and likes and dislikes. It's like you
Speaker 4: could have a stadium full of information about other people,
Speaker 4: but we don't expect other people to have a stadium
Speaker 4: of information about us. We're like, I'm fine, whatever, it
Speaker 4: doesn't matter. I'm fine, you know. And so I feel
Speaker 4: like we need to be up in our own game
Speaker 4: with understanding our own emotions how do I really feel?
Speaker 4: So the resentment inventory is sort of a quick sort
Speaker 4: of shortcut for you to look at what relationships might
Speaker 4: need your attention, Where might you be overfunctioning, where might
Speaker 4: you be not asserting how you really feel? So I
Speaker 4: feel like that's the beginning, and then the toolkit will
Speaker 4: help you. It gives you, I give you something how
Speaker 4: to simplify and do less because I feel like, as
Speaker 4: HFC is, we're doing too many things.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's a whole other conversation here that we
Speaker 1: can have around burnout. But I feel as though we've
Speaker 1: probably taken so much of your time. But I think
Speaker 1: that this would be one of the biggest indicators. Right
Speaker 1: Like women who get to their mid thirties and or
Speaker 1: forties or whatever it is, and you have this moment
Speaker 1: in life where you're like, I am so fucking exhausted
Speaker 1: by all of the things, but I can't get off
Speaker 1: the hamster wheel because it's spitting so fast, and I
Speaker 1: can't drop all the balls that I've got in the
Speaker 1: air at the same time, How is burnout so highly interlinked.
Speaker 4: Because we can go, go go, as hfc's because we
Speaker 4: actually never say die. It takes us getting to burnout.
Speaker 4: Usually it takes us getting to something that stops us
Speaker 4: where we have to be like, okay, I need to
Speaker 4: regroup what is going on? Burnout? When you get there,
Speaker 4: you're not functioning from your right brain. It's so exhausting
Speaker 4: that fatigue is so enormous and you really start to
Speaker 4: not care. Right, So it's like we go from with
Speaker 4: hfc's like too many fucks for too many people for
Speaker 4: too long, and then like the pendulum just smashes into
Speaker 4: a rock wall where you're like, no fucks for anybody,
Speaker 4: don't care, literally, I cannot care. It's like you want
Speaker 4: to start cutting people out. We want that bendulum to
Speaker 4: swing back to the middle, so you get to burn
Speaker 4: out where maybe you don't have any EPs to give
Speaker 4: to anybody. But when we start to treat ourselves better,
Speaker 4: take better care of ourselves in a real way, because
Speaker 4: trust me, I know if you're an HFC, you're probably
Speaker 4: going to soul cycle, You're probably going to the gym,
Speaker 4: You're getting your nails done, you get get in the
Speaker 4: facial you're maybe doing both tip whatever. Like in your mind,
Speaker 4: you're taking care of yourself. But I want you to
Speaker 4: The taking care that I'm interested in you doing is
Speaker 4: self consideration, which is before you commit to things, before
Speaker 4: you take on another thing, you two questions you ask yourself,
Speaker 4: do I have the bandwidth to do this without becoming
Speaker 4: bitter or overwhelmed? And number two, do I even want
Speaker 4: to do it like that? Alone? Not wanting to do
Speaker 4: something is a really good reason not to do it,
Speaker 4: and I think that as HFC is we never even
Speaker 4: consider it. We feel like we have to write a
Speaker 4: dissertation on our no as to why we're not doing
Speaker 4: something and justify the shit out of it. How about
Speaker 4: I just don't it's not my thing or I'm just
Speaker 4: not up for it. I'm really exhausted. Like, let people
Speaker 4: in on where you really are and stop making yourself
Speaker 4: do a bunch of crap you don't feel like doing,
Speaker 4: because that makes you better.
Speaker 3: Terry, we love having you every time. I can say
Speaker 3: every time because it is the third time.
Speaker 2: I always have you back in six months.
Speaker 3: I always have a realization and I always take something away.
Speaker 3: I think today I'm taking away this resentment inventory. I
Speaker 3: haven't heard of that before, and I really like it.
Speaker 2: I really like this.
Speaker 3: Let's start tracking that ourselves and being a bit more
Speaker 3: proactive with it instead of just letting it build up
Speaker 3: and then imploding in our relationships, like all relationships. Terry's
Speaker 3: Walk Too Much is available now. You can get it anywhere.
Speaker 3: You can get a good book, because it is a
Speaker 3: brilliant book. But you can get Terry literally everywhere. Websites, Instagram, podcasts, youtubes.
Speaker 3: Put it all in the show notes, all the links
Speaker 3: we'll link you to. All of Terry She's there.
Speaker 2: But thank you so much for joining us again today.
Speaker 4: It was so much fun. Britton Lauria, thanks for having
Speaker 4: me