WEBVTT - Are You the 'Fixer'? Unpacking High-Functioning Codependency with Terri Cole 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:12.680 This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land. Hi guys, and 0:00:12.760 --> 0:00:14.520 welcome back to another episode of Life on Cut. 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:15.840 I'm Laura, I'm Brittany. 0:00:16.200 --> 0:00:19.800 Today's guest that we have is someone who's statistically on 0:00:19.840 --> 0:00:22.119 this podcast is our favorite guest because this will be 0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:23.560 her third time back here. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:26.320 Well, I'm not sure we've ever done a three. 0:00:26.160 --> 0:00:29.120 Time what have we No, That's why she's statistically our favorite, 0:00:29.160 --> 0:00:31.680 because it's the only person who has ever done three episodes. 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.800 But that's because, I mean, every time we have spoken 0:00:34.840 --> 0:00:38.000 to Terry Cole, there have been real aha moments that 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.839 both Britt and myself have had around our own lives, 0:00:40.880 --> 0:00:44.120 our own personality traits. We've spoken around cheating, We've done 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:47.199 episodes on boundaries. We were speaking about boundaries on our 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.879 last ep that we did with Terry, and we were 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:54.600 talking about high functioning codependence. And I remember sitting there 0:00:54.680 --> 0:00:57.000 during that conversation, I had this moment where I was 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:58.000 like ping. 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:00.320 But to give you a little bit of a background. 0:01:00.200 --> 0:01:02.040 On this, I think so many of us have a 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:07.840 perception around what codependent means, and it is not necessarily 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:11.000 a very positive label that we would put on ourselves. 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.360 I think we often think clingy, we think needy, we 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:17.199 think can't not be in a relationship. But this definition 0:01:17.280 --> 0:01:21.160 and conversation around what a high functioning codependent is something 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.720 that's really different, and I honestly think so many people 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:27.039 will have that same aha moment. Who'll be listening to 0:01:27.080 --> 0:01:30.240 this episode? So Terry, welcome back to the pod. 0:01:30.760 --> 0:01:32.920 Why thanks for having me, Laura and britt. 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:37.080 Terry, you have been in this industry psychotherapist, like twenty years, 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:39.840 You've written multiple books. What was it that led you 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.240 now to specialize in this high functioning codependency. 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:45.600 It's really just what I saw. I've actually been a 0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:48.800 therapist for twenty seven year, but it's really what I saw, 0:01:49.000 --> 0:01:51.000 you know. I mean, what was happening for me is 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:53.680 that in my therapy practice, I attracted women who were 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:58.280 like me, which was super highly capable women like just 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:00.560 the masters of the universe, like doing it in the 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:04.160 world and managing businesses and homes and families and aging 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:07.400 parents and all the things like just having it going on. 0:02:08.360 --> 0:02:11.280 And then I would see a relational pattern. If I 0:02:11.280 --> 0:02:14.079 pointed it out and say, hey, what I'm seeing this 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:21.000 is codependent behavioral pattern, they would immediately reject, immediately go yeah, wrong, lady. 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:24.640 Everyone depends on me. I'm the one making all the dough, 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.800 making all the decisions, making all the moves, moving everything forward, 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:30.920 doing all the emotional labor. Like I'm the rock in 0:02:31.000 --> 0:02:33.480 my family and in my friend group, and like I'm 0:02:33.480 --> 0:02:36.440 not dependent on shit is basically what they would say. 0:02:36.880 --> 0:02:40.519 And I realized they don't know what codependency is. They 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:44.880 think that codependency is codependent. No more melody, baby, You 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.160 got to be enabling an alcoholic to be a codependent. 0:02:48.360 --> 0:02:51.160 And like you guys said, weak dependent can't make a 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:54.960 decision like the long suffering wife of like the debtor 0:02:54.960 --> 0:02:56.959 who's going out and spending the rent money. You know 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.480 what I mean. But that ain't it. And that wasn't 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:04.640 what I was seeing in my therapy practice and what 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:09.960 I had experienced myself. So I my definition of codependency 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:14.200 is being overly invested in the feeling states, the outcomes, 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:18.720 the situations, the circumstances, the relationships, the careers of the 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.960 people in our lives, to the detriment of our own 0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:22.760 internal peace. 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:25.280 How does one identify that in themselves? 0:03:25.320 --> 0:03:29.000 Though, because I think the alternate, this original understanding of 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:32.320 what codependency is it's way easier to point out. It's 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.640 way easy to be like, oh, that's someone who can't 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:36.880 be without a man or can't be without a person. 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:40.480 But the definition of what you've just described, I feel 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.000 like the line is so blurred between figuring out, oh, 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.200 maybe I have high functioning codependency or I'm just super 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:48.280 invested in my family and my friends and my loved 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:49.640 ones and my businesses. 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:51.920 All right, So I'm going to say exactly how you 0:03:51.960 --> 0:03:54.880 can figure it out. First of all, how you feel. Right, 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:58.240 if you are going to do a quick resentment inventory, 0:03:58.280 --> 0:04:01.080 anybody listening to this or watching them, yes, and that's 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.520 going to show you in what relationships you are most 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:10.600 likely overfunctioning overgiving because the overfunctioning underfunctioning dynamic creates resentment. 0:04:12.120 --> 0:04:14.280 So if you're doing all the things for all the people, 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:16.000 and you're invested in the people that you love, and 0:04:16.040 --> 0:04:19.360 you feel congreat and you have no resentment and you're 0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:23.239 not exhausted and burnt out, then go you. Then it's fine. 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.400 And even if it is high functioning codependency, that can 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.080 also be a choice. You can say, hey, this is 0:04:28.120 --> 0:04:30.760 my identity and I want to be that way. What 0:04:30.800 --> 0:04:35.159 I'm finding is that it's not sustainable that right, like 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.039 what you could do like in your twenties for a 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:41.200 long time as you age start hitting perimenopause menopause, you 0:04:41.320 --> 0:04:44.000 just don't have the bandwidth to do all the things 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.120 for all the people. So maybe it would be helpful 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.920 if we identify it what are the traits of high 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.080 functioning codependence so that people can see like do they 0:04:54.160 --> 0:04:56.840 see themselves in these traits? And then we could talk 0:04:56.839 --> 0:04:59.600 about behaviors really because that's how you're going to be 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.760 able to go is this me or is this not me? 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:04.479 If we look at the traits feeling overly responsible to 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.719 fix other people's problems, let's just start there, giving, like 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:10.080 going above and beyond, giving till it hurts, even if 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:12.600 you're not asked to, always ready to jump into damage 0:05:12.600 --> 0:05:15.120 control there's a problem and you're like, okay, so you're 0:05:15.160 --> 0:05:16.440 going to do this. I'm going to do this like 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:20.479 your great in a crisis. It can also look like 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.440 kind of being a little judgmental of other people because 0:05:23.440 --> 0:05:26.400 we really do think that we know what they should 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.640 be doing. We really do have the solutions for them, 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:31.599 and if they would just listen, then they wouldn't be 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:33.960 in pain, and we would be so much happier if 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:36.560 they would just take our friggant advice, because we can 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:39.400 get frustrated and pissed when they don't take our advice, 0:05:39.400 --> 0:05:41.400 because now they're still complaining about the same shit that 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:43.880 we could have solved. We did solve two weeks ago, 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.640 they just didn't take action on feeling exhausted, resentful, bitter. 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.960 Another trait is being hyper independent, where you're not the 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:55.960 best at asking for help or allowing people to help you, 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:58.800 where you're sort of like the mantra of the HFC 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.919 is I got it, I'm good. We don't love it. 0:06:01.960 --> 0:06:04.440 We don't love being vulnerable to other people, which is 0:06:04.440 --> 0:06:07.839 what asking for help makes us. So it's like that 0:06:07.960 --> 0:06:12.080 hyperindependence is really something that's there, and what does it 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:13.960 look like like in your day to day life? If 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.120 you're like, hmm, I wonder if I'm an HFC, well, 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:21.080 do you give untolicited advice called auto advice giving the 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.960 second a situation happens, are you immediately like, Okay, I've 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.039 got the answer, So I'm going to google this, I 0:06:27.080 --> 0:06:28.800 talk to this person. I'm connecting you with my friend 0:06:28.839 --> 0:06:31.240 who's an MD. Like we're doing all the things for 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:31.960 other people, and. 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:33.320 You don't even know that you is sitting next to 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.120 them at the cafe, just overheard the conversation. 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.440 Fact literally, those are true stories which I shared in 0:06:38.480 --> 0:06:41.280 the book about you could be codependently attached if you're 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.520 an HFC to people you just friggin meet. So there 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:48.680 are some distinctions between sort of the old school self sacrificing. 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.640 We talked about auto accommodating, right, what is auto accommodating. 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:54.520 I share a story in the book. I'm at my 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.640 hair salon in Manhattan. It's like a busy Saturday and 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:00.279 I'm laying in the sink because I have a ask 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:02.840 on my hair and now the sink traffic is backing up, 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.120 and the more it backs up, the more anxious I'm getting. 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:09.240 Here's me just laying taking a sink. I don't even 0:07:09.240 --> 0:07:11.200 need a fucking sink. I could be sitting somewhere like 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:13.200 I don't need you know. I raised my hand. I 0:07:13.200 --> 0:07:15.080 have the assistant come over. I'm like, you know, I 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.320 could move. She's like, yeah, lady, how you doing. We 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.600 got it. We do this every Saturday. So that's auto accommodating. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:24.680 I took it upon me. Terry Cale I should, I 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:28.480 should be responsible for the sink flow at my busy 0:07:28.960 --> 0:07:29.520 hair salon. 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:32.600 But is that not just because you're a normal person 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.960 that has some level of empathy and you can see 0:07:35.960 --> 0:07:38.840 that you're inconveniencing other people, even if it is indirectly. 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.080 It's not you. You don't own the salon. But I 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:42.600 feel like I would do the same thing. I would 0:07:42.600 --> 0:07:44.360 feel like, why are we stopping this flow? And I'm 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:46.440 stopping the next person from getting there, shit done and 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:48.120 getting out just because I'm laying here. 0:07:48.400 --> 0:07:50.840 But it's not though, you know, Britt, it's like it 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:54.040 sounds like that. But here's the thing that was not 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:58.320 my side of the street. The girl who was running 0:07:58.360 --> 0:08:01.680 that sink flow could if she needed me to move, 0:08:01.800 --> 0:08:04.240 she would have asked me. She has eyes too, she 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.200 saw that I was laying there doing nothing right. So 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.200 it isn't that it wasn't my side of the street. 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:15.000 But I was so codependently dialed into my environment it 0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:18.760 made me so uncomfortable that I was trying to fix 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.080 what wasn't mine to fix. And here's why we should 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:27.280 give a shit. What is the cost of doing that? 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:33.600 The hypervigilance I could be laying there meditating, calling my mother, 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.760 doing nothing, resting my exhausted brain. But instead you wonder 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:39.880 why my brain was exhausted. I was not doing that. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:42.720 I was thinking about how they could have a better 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:45.079 sink flow, and I was going to tell someone my 0:08:45.240 --> 0:08:48.440 idea in the middle of my ten minutes laying there 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:51.120 like incorrect. 0:08:50.720 --> 0:08:53.840 You said something, and my very first thought was, but 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:57.440 isn't that a contradiction to the literal definition of independence? 0:08:57.679 --> 0:09:00.720 You were like, it's the person who is so self 0:09:00.760 --> 0:09:04.040 sufficient that they can't take help, that they're so independent 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.319 that they repel help. 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:08.200 How are those things connected? 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:12.160 Well, they are because we can be hyper helpers to 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.199 other people and we love the I mean, listen, there's 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:18.640 a helpers high. That shit is real right where it 0:09:18.679 --> 0:09:21.440 feels amazing to help someone who's in a jam or 0:09:21.480 --> 0:09:23.240 to come up with a solution and someone's like, oh, 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:25.800 thank God for you. You know, there's a high that comes 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:30.800 along with that. So you can be that and not 0:09:31.080 --> 0:09:33.760 want to allow someone else to do that for you, 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.880 because to do that, you must be in that state 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.440 of vulnerability, and when you're in HFC, it doesn't feel good. 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:42.800 We're very comfortable and we may not even be conscious 0:09:42.840 --> 0:09:46.719 of it. But we're very comfortable giving and doing and 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:51.400 providing and helping and saving, right, we're super comfortable putting 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:53.400 on that cape. We don't want to be a burden 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:57.040 to other people. We don't want to owe other people. 0:09:57.080 --> 0:10:01.160 These are other reasons besides the vulnerability. But part of 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:04.400 it is if an HFC, if you let someone do something, 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:07.200 you feel like you owe them, kind of like there's 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:10.319 a lack of mutuality in some of the relationships with ahfcs. 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.320 I think that this is why it's so hard for 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.440 someone who is a high functioning codependent to figure out 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:17.800 that that's what they are, because you would see those 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.280 traits as being I've got this, I'm independent, like you know, 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:23.840 and exactly like you said, some of these women who 0:10:23.840 --> 0:10:26.840 may display these characteristics may very well be the breadwinner 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:30.800 in their family, you know, and those attributes don't lend 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:35.520 themselves to your classical ideologies around codependency. And so that's 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.679 why when we were having that conversation, when we were 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:40.520 talking about boundaries, I had this real moment and I 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.920 know that in some of my past relationships, I've definitely 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:47.319 displayed codependent tendencies, but I definitely didn't think it permeated 0:10:47.400 --> 0:10:49.280 all through my life, and then the more we spoke 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:51.800 about it, the more we were like, oh, yeah, yeah, 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:52.280 I see this. 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:53.439 Now can we draw a. 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:57.400 Picture here for everyone and just really simplify what takes 0:10:57.400 --> 0:11:00.920 something from codependency to high functioning code dependency. What are 0:11:00.960 --> 0:11:04.400 those characteristics that a high functioning person has that a 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:06.320 normal codependent person doesn't have. 0:11:06.679 --> 0:11:09.959 Well, part of it is that the irony of HFC 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.240 is that the more capable you are, the less codependency 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:19.000 looks like codependency, but it still is codependency. So again 0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:24.520 the same way, my clients were not identified with codependency 0:11:24.600 --> 0:11:28.840 the old school definition. And so why it matters is 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.240 because if you're an HFC, nobody's checking on you, you 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:35.400 know what, because you're fine, right, You're always fine. We're 0:11:35.440 --> 0:11:38.440 the ones checking on other people usually, So really it's 0:11:38.520 --> 0:11:42.000 just a way of outing people. Where the way that HFC, 0:11:42.120 --> 0:11:46.320 the way our codependency and our boundary crossing, because that 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:50.520 is what it is shows up is auto advice giving, 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:56.600 auto accommodating, overfunctioning, overgiving, taking on more responsibility in the relationship, 0:11:57.000 --> 0:11:59.679 being like I got it, having the over and underfunctioning 0:11:59.720 --> 0:12:01.520 where you know, I would tell a joke that you know, 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.199 in my twenties, I could take a perfectly functioning boy 0:12:04.600 --> 0:12:07.199 and turn him into an underfunctioner in two weeks or less. 0:12:07.360 --> 0:12:09.280 You know what I mean, Because I would just like 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:12.920 do it all. I got it, Like, just just relax, 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.040 I got it all. And it's almost like your value 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:20.200 sometimes is in the doing and being the person that 0:12:20.280 --> 0:12:22.840 everyone comes to for, you know what I mean, for 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:24.320 whatever they know they can count on you. 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:26.560 Yeah, because I think sometimes we get stuck in idjusted 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:28.280 it to my partner this morning on the way here. 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:29.720 We get stuck in it. 0:12:29.720 --> 0:12:31.480 It's easier if I just do it, Like it's easier 0:12:31.480 --> 0:12:33.439 for you to just send me that and I will 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:34.920 do it, then tell you how to do it now 0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:36.200 and walk you through it. So I think a lot 0:12:36.240 --> 0:12:40.040 of people get sucked into that vacuum. But we tend 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:43.520 to talk about and see HFC in this negative bubble 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:46.280 like it has this negative connotation to it. Can it 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:49.600 ever be a positive that someone is an HFC? Yep, 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:51.840 I say it like they've got a disease and HFC. 0:12:52.679 --> 0:12:56.120 That's correct, That is correct. Here's the thing when we 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:00.520 balance out the disordered boundaries and the overfunk in the 0:13:00.600 --> 0:13:05.760 auto right, the reactions of being an HFC. Being an 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:10.280 HFC is your superpower, right, Your high capabilities don't suddenly 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.480 go away because you get into recovery, which is all 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.280 we can hope for with AHFC. There's no like curing it. Right, 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.920 this is your nature, this is what you learned. It's 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.280 a combination of nature and nurture. But when people on 0:13:23.320 --> 0:13:26.120 the Internet push back to me and they're like, maybe 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.080 I'm just nice. How about that, Terry, Maybe I'm just generous? 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.680 You ever think of that, I'm like, here's the thing. 0:13:32.440 --> 0:13:38.719 If you can't not do it, it's not you being nice, yea. 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:42.000 If you can't not do it, it's a compulsion like 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:45.280 any other compulsion. So I know we love to think 0:13:45.320 --> 0:13:47.600 of ourselves as mother Terisa, But what I'm saying to 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.760 Internet people is that if you are compulsively doing this shit, 0:13:52.040 --> 0:13:55.080 it is not a choice. So it's not you consciously 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:59.800 being nice. It's you automatically trying to change someone else's 0:14:00.280 --> 0:14:06.760 feelings or situation or circumstance because it is making you uncomfortable. 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:08.520 I don't want to gender it, but I do see 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:10.160 this in my friendship group. You have to see this 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.240 with the women that I'm close with, you are often 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.640 the ones that get lumped with a lot of the stuff. 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:18.440 It's the mental load, it's the kids, it's the trying 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:20.840 to maintain a friendship group, it's the trying to you know, 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.880 have a successful career. So I wonder if it's sometimes 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.400 hard for people to identify whether it's like almost as 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:29.440 though they feel as though it's forced upon them, like 0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.400 figuring out like what is it that they're choosing and 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:36.200 opting into doing because it's a characteristic of HC, or 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:39.480 it's because it's literally the nature of which we live, 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:42.120 where a lot of women are tasked with the burden 0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.640 of not only just being the care but the worker. 0:14:45.760 --> 0:14:47.240 And it's like you can do it all, and you've 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:48.200 got to do it all at the same time. 0:14:48.640 --> 0:14:52.200 Indeed, but here's the thing. We have choices, And the 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:53.960 thing is I think that what I hope this book 0:14:54.000 --> 0:14:57.360 does is bring those choices from the basement to the 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:01.320 conscious part of the mind, because if what does a 0:15:01.440 --> 0:15:04.200 life look like if we just HFC it up until 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.080 we're dead, Like, what does that life actually look like? 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:10.200 It's not that satisfying, I can tell you for sure. 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:14.080 And that the bitterness and the anger and the feeling 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:16.720 put out and the feeling martyred. You know, you don't 0:15:16.760 --> 0:15:19.560 think that women in when they're twenty one, they're like, 0:15:19.600 --> 0:15:21.280 I can't wait to grow up and become a martyr. 0:15:21.360 --> 0:15:25.600 It's got to be amazing, Like nobody wants that, you 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:29.240 know what I'm saying. It happens over time and time 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.520 and time and time and time when we're overgiving and 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:35.680 we don't create equitable relationships in our lives. But you 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:38.680 can change it. If you're in a situation where even 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.960 if you've taken it all on because you're like, that's right, 0:15:41.000 --> 0:15:43.280 I'm superwoman. I can do it all. But maybe you're 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.760 burnt out, or maybe you're resenting your partner, or maybe 0:15:45.760 --> 0:15:47.680 you don't have energy, or maybe you feel depressed, or 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:50.320 maybe you've gained weight or whatever the things are, you know, 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.000 or maybe you're going into perimenopause or menopause, and this 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.960 creates a whole other ball of wax that we got 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:57.840 to deal with. That gives us we don't have the 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.040 same capacity when the hormones are because it's changing your brain. 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.200 There's so many things that are going on you can change. 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.120 So that's what I'm walk you through in the book 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.000 is we have to be able to tolerate our own feelings 0:16:09.520 --> 0:16:13.160 because it's not your job to do what you're doing 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.040 right now. In many of your relationships, it is not 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.800 your job to fix other people's problems. 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.800 It sounds like one of the main byproducts in a 0:16:21.920 --> 0:16:25.400 romantic relationship. Maybe not romantic, but is resentment. Like if 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.200 you have this high functioning relationship for so long and 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.640 you build resentment, And in my eyes, resentment is one 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:34.720 of the hardest things to overcome in a relationship. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.160 I think, I think it's probably easier to don't come 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:37.480 for me. 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:41.960 I think it's easier to probably overcome a physical infidelity 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.080 in one night than it is of fifteen years of 0:16:44.120 --> 0:16:45.520 resentment that's been built up. 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.720 I will agree with that assessment, because the thing is 0:16:47.720 --> 0:16:50.200 a lot of times, if it's a one off with infidelity, 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:53.840 that can be the trigger for a relationship. You know, 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.040 not if somebody had a con separate family that you 0:16:56.040 --> 0:16:57.720 didn't know about, but if it really was a one 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.920 night experience, that can be the catalyst to you know. 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:04.399 Esta Parrel would say, you know, this can be the 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:07.080 thing that brings that brings people really together and sort 0:17:07.119 --> 0:17:10.080 of you got to burn it down to rebuild it, 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:14.840 but with resentment, and it's such a slow build with resentment, 0:17:14.880 --> 0:17:18.520 it's cumulative. So it's like all of the stuff you're 0:17:18.520 --> 0:17:20.840 not talking about, all of the truth that you may 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.480 not be telling because you just want there to be peace. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:26.560 You just want everything to be okay. You want everyone 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:29.959 to be okay. But that can only happen if you 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:36.240 are actually okay. And if you feel burdened and underappreciated 0:17:36.240 --> 0:17:40.359 and exhausted, you're really not okay. And your relationship is 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:42.840 not okay either because sooner or later there's going to 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.159 be some kind of a crack. Right, it's going to 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.400 come to a head. But you don't have to wait 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.240 for that to happen. You can do an inventory right now. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.080 If you do a resentment inventory and you go, okay, 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:58.320 I realize now I'm resenting my partner because they said 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:00.240 they would do this with the kids, and they don't 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:02.080 do it unless I ask them, and then I check, 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:03.439 and then I set it up and then I'm the 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:05.520 one who does the calling. You have to have a 0:18:05.560 --> 0:18:08.639 conversation that says, hey, here are the things that we 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:10.679 do as a couple. Here are all the things. I 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:12.720 was being interviewed by someone and she said, I'm having 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:15.080 a seven hour meeting with my husband tomorrow. I was 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.280 like wow, and she said, I realized she's like, my 0:18:18.359 --> 0:18:21.400 husband's great. I mean, people would consider him like he's modern. 0:18:21.760 --> 0:18:23.560 You know, he does a lot. But here's the thing. 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.159 I still resent the shit out of him. I was 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:28.680 like why, and she was like, because, first of all, 0:18:28.840 --> 0:18:30.760 he wants me to throw him up a parade when 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:33.040 he does shit, and he has no idea how much 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:35.080 that I do. Like he wants a parade for the 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:36.120 four things that are on. 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:39.200 His list when he packs the swashaw yeah. 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:40.760 And she's like, and I don't want to give him 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:44.639 that because he doesn't even know the one tenth of 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:47.280 what I actually do to keep the shit running, like 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.639 he does not know. And I was like, but babe, 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:54.960 who's fault is that he doesn't know? Because you're not 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.520 telling him, but you're holding him responsible for knowing even 0:18:58.560 --> 0:18:59.199 though he doesn't. 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:01.000 But you will say that, and you get into this 0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:04.199 area of like schoolkeeping when you're doing that, when you're like, 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:06.199 well you did this and I did this, and I 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.080 feel like that is just you know, when you get 0:19:08.119 --> 0:19:10.520 to that point in a relationship when we're talking about resentment, 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.600 like schoolkeeping is such a dangerous thing to do to 0:19:13.680 --> 0:19:14.280 your pot. 0:19:14.160 --> 0:19:15.720 The I'm going to disagree, and I'm going to tell 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:19.879 you why. I agree that bean counting, scorekeeping bean county 0:19:20.000 --> 0:19:22.760 is not the way to go. But if you have 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.360 a very lopsided relationship right now, where you're doing all 0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.280 the emotional labor, where you do all the cooking, all 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:32.840 the kids, all the stuff, and have a career, there 0:19:32.880 --> 0:19:35.520 has to be a come to Jesus like, Okay, we 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:38.880 need to rejigger this thing because it's not working. Right 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:42.840 that moment of that lady being like there's four thousand 0:19:42.880 --> 0:19:45.879 things on my list and there's twenty on his list, 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.440 I'm like, okay, Well, in your seven hour family meeting, 0:19:49.000 --> 0:19:51.639 I guess you can offload some of the stuff on 0:19:51.680 --> 0:19:53.560 your list or maybe see if you guys can that 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:55.360 be Can we pay someone to do some of those 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.639 things or whatever. But there has to be more fairness 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.199 in a relationship. I'm not saying it has to be 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.239 perfectly equitable. Definitely, you're going to do things better than 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:08.760