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Speaker 1: We just don't always have our eyes and ears open

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Speaker 1: to those opportunities. I saw that, I mean, on television,

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Speaker 1: so I'm watching it as a wooch athlete. He doesn't finish.

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Speaker 1: I saw that a friend of mine at Swanling was channel.

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Speaker 1: He said, if I can do it, you can do it.

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Speaker 1: That came about so when I found out that no

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Speaker 1: wooch athlete had done the English Channel as well as

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Speaker 1: any iron man, that was an added bonus to be

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Speaker 1: the first, but also again to inspire kids in Wilchest.

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Speaker 2: This is the Parenting in Perspective podcast. It's a Happy

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Speaker 2: Families podcast. My name is doctor Justin Coulson. In June

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Speaker 2: of nineteen eighty eight, John McClean went out for a

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Speaker 2: ride on his bike. That training ride for the Nepean

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Speaker 2: Triathlon would change John's life forever. John was hit by

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Speaker 2: an eight ton truck which left him with multiple breaks

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Speaker 2: to his arms, elvis and back. Amazingly, John survived the

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Speaker 2: accident but was left as a paraplegic. The accident, though,

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Speaker 2: ended up being the aching of John. In nineteen ninety eight,

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Speaker 2: John became the first wheelchair athlete to successfully swim the

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Speaker 2: English Channel.

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Speaker 3: And in two thousand.

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Speaker 2: He represented Australia at the Sydney Paralympics, reaching the final

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Speaker 2: of the fifteen hundred meters wheelchair race. Now it's a

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Speaker 2: bit of a cliche that behind every great man is

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Speaker 2: an even greater woman, but cliches aside. In this case,

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Speaker 2: I think it's absolutely true. So I've invited John Long

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Speaker 2: for the podcast Conversation today along with his wife Amanda,

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Speaker 2: to really get a sense of their story. And I

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Speaker 2: began by asking John what family life looked like for

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Speaker 2: him as a child.

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Speaker 1: My parents immigrated from Scotland. I'm so glad they did

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Speaker 1: because I must fur growing up with the son in

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Speaker 1: Australia is in the winters in Scotland, and they were

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Speaker 1: kind of immigrants who kind of came over with My

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Speaker 1: mother suffered for mental health, so I kind of spent

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Speaker 1: the first five years in a foster home with my

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Speaker 1: brother and sister who were older and unfortunate. Mum took

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Speaker 1: a life when I was about four years of act

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Speaker 1: so for the first five years was in a foster home.

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Speaker 2: So John, while you're in that foster home and your

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Speaker 2: mum's going through her mental illness challenge and ultimately dying

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Speaker 2: by suicide.

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Speaker 3: Where's dad.

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Speaker 1: Dad's trying to make sense of all this. So again

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Speaker 1: he's immigrated. He was told to give the kids up

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Speaker 1: for adoption. That was the language that was which he

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Speaker 1: shared with me. He chose not to do that and

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Speaker 1: will be favor grateful that he wanted to still make

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Speaker 1: a living for his family. So therefore, by having us

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Speaker 1: three kids were very young in foster care, that been

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Speaker 1: allowed him to focus on three jobs, not as one,

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Speaker 1: to generate enough of an income to get on the

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Speaker 1: list of a Housing Commission house for us to leap frog,

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Speaker 1: which we ended up doing. So Dad was doing all

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Speaker 1: that he can to do at a foundation for allowing us

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Speaker 1: to get a house and move forward. So that's what

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Speaker 1: he was doing.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And you grew up in Mount Druid. There's no

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Speaker 2: polite way to say it. It's known as a pretty

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Speaker 2: rough part of Sydney, one of the roughest parts of Sydney.

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Speaker 1: True, how commission kind of fi blue collar people doing

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Speaker 1: their best. So that would have to drive to Sunario Station,

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Speaker 1: get an hour's trip into the city, work there and

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Speaker 1: then come back home again. So you know, he committed

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Speaker 1: so much of his time to provide for us as

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Speaker 1: a family after my birth mother passed away. He was

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Speaker 1: also an entertainer. His love was singing in his passion,

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Speaker 1: so that was one of the ways he generated income.

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Speaker 1: And he was also an advanced driving instructor, so he

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Speaker 1: was working in the city in the marl rooms. This

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Speaker 1: three jobs and you're right. Mount Jordan is a tough

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Speaker 1: place to go up. But if you know no different,

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Speaker 1: you do no different.

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Speaker 3: John.

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Speaker 2: You get into your teenage years, you start to be

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Speaker 2: recognized as a sportsperson and you start looking pretty seriously

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Speaker 2: at a rugby league career.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I think for as a little boy, Dad kind

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Speaker 1: of introduced my brother and I marks three years older,

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Speaker 1: to sport. He said it's a good way of meeting people,

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Speaker 1: are making friends. He was right, and rugby league was

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Speaker 1: something in our local area that we were both passionate about,

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Speaker 1: as well as little athletics. My gift was kind of running.

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Speaker 1: I used to do okay with that. When Dad would

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Speaker 1: kind of get us in the Penrith uniform back in

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Speaker 1: the day and going in serring on the Penrith Panthers,

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Speaker 1: that was a really big experience for us to have

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Speaker 1: as brothers, and I think that then planned to see.

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Speaker 1: For me as a young boy, imagine what it would

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Speaker 1: be like to run on that paddock and get paid

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Speaker 1: to be a professional athlete. So that's where my kind

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Speaker 1: of dreams started to unfold around wanted to chase sport

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Speaker 1: as a living.

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Speaker 2: Okay, now the story takes a fello dramatic turn from here.

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Speaker 2: And you were really interested in triathlon, probably a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a little bit ahead of your time, but

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Speaker 2: you were training for a triathlon, the Nepean Triathlon in

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight. Your world changed forever on that day.

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Speaker 2: What happened that day? How much do you remember about it?

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Speaker 2: And what's happened since?

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Speaker 1: So I was going to race against my buddy at

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Speaker 1: the time, who we got introduced to the sport in

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Speaker 1: eighty six. So this is going to competitive friendship. I

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Speaker 1: won the first race, he won the second, and therefore

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Speaker 1: not a OUTI eight was going to be the decider

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Speaker 1: on who between us was the better athlete. That was

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Speaker 1: our focus at the time. So in preparation for that training,

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Speaker 1: I was out on my bicycle. I got hit by

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Speaker 1: a truck, broke my back and damaged my spinal cord

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Speaker 1: as well as other bones. Spent four months in a

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Speaker 1: spinal unit, and that dramatically changed my world because I

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Speaker 1: think that was my first real experience about suffering from

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Speaker 1: the depression of not or knowing that I wouldn't fulfill

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Speaker 1: the dreams that I had at that start. Losing my

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Speaker 1: legs was a really difficult thing because that was my

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Speaker 1: love of running and competing.

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Speaker 2: Can you describe the not Not that we want to

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Speaker 2: dwell on the drama and kind of get excited about

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Speaker 2: the crash, but I think that it's important in setting

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Speaker 2: the context for people to understand just how serious this

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Speaker 2: incident was.

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Speaker 1: So the speed of it at the time was one

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Speaker 1: hundred and ten, so that's on the police report. That

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Speaker 1: was the speed that the truck was going. The offending truck,

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Speaker 1: which is the truck that hit me, was about to

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Speaker 1: overtake another truck. Looked in the side view mirror. The

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Speaker 1: truck then VIGs the left, collided with me, and the

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Speaker 1: truck continued to go forward. A motorbike rider saw the

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Speaker 1: accident from behind and wave the driver down about a

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Speaker 1: kilometer down the freeway and bipping his horn just to

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Speaker 1: notify him that he'd been involved in an accident damaged

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Speaker 1: to me, and again no recollection from being hit from

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Speaker 1: behind it, and I think that's a kind of blessing.

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Speaker 1: There is no reoccurring nightmares of that picture because I

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Speaker 1: don't have a picture of that damaged to me. I

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Speaker 1: broke my back in three pelvising four right side, I

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Speaker 1: broken twice, right side, broken ribs, punched lungs. I think

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Speaker 1: anything else really doesn't matter, because if you're able to

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Speaker 1: survive something like that without brain damage, that's a miracle

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Speaker 1: in some people's eyes. And then if you're able to live,

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Speaker 1: let's call it living number one. Let's call not having

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Speaker 1: brain damage number two, and then you know what does

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Speaker 1: that then look like? So as an incomplete paraplegic, I

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Speaker 1: vividly remember waking up after coming out of the coma

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Speaker 1: and being in a world of pain. My parents would

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Speaker 1: notified that I've been involved in accident, initially saying that

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Speaker 1: your son's broken his prows. So mom and Dad make

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Speaker 1: their way to Westmead Hospital, and then Dad was told

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Speaker 1: late at that night via the surgeon he didn't expect

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Speaker 1: me to live due to the extent of the injuries.

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Speaker 1: So that's tough for any parent. So fortunately I was

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Speaker 1: able to pull through. I think a couple of days

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Speaker 1: after that was then transferred via a helicopter's this four

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Speaker 1: days in Westmeat to a spinal unit, and therefore to

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Speaker 1: start to go through ICU and move through that process.

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Speaker 1: When I first saw myself in the mirror in terms

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Speaker 1: of lacerations and how quickly our body becomes emitiator or

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Speaker 1: waste the way, there's always this internal dialogue around I

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Speaker 1: don't like what I'm seeing up at anybody else, and

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Speaker 1: trying what am I going to do with my life?

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Speaker 1: My job? Wanted to be a fireman, can't I mean,

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Speaker 1: all these kind of reoccurring dark thoughts because there's nothing

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Speaker 1: that's bright and exciting, and there's no sunshine at all.

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Speaker 1: It all it's all dark clouds. So and then over

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Speaker 1: time you start to come to terms of the fact

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Speaker 1: how I'm really lucky I'm alive. And then when I

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Speaker 1: was moving into the general reward, which was eight weeks later,

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Speaker 1: after the bones had kind of knitted back together again,

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Speaker 1: I realized that there are a lot more people were

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Speaker 1: soft than myself, and therefore, having encouraging words from my father,

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Speaker 1: from my brother, from my doctor, started to create shades

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Speaker 1: of light to give me hope moving forward.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I hear that, John, and I just think

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Speaker 2: it's extraordinary. Your entire life is blown up, and you've

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Speaker 2: gone through this darkness for eight weeks, and then you

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Speaker 2: in the general ward think, actually, my bones are healing

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Speaker 2: and you're having this shift already, and you're pointing to

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Speaker 2: the support from your brother and from your dad, from

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Speaker 2: your family. Why is it, John, that you think that

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Speaker 2: you were able to start to make these shifts? And

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Speaker 2: I guess in some ways build hope where so many

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Speaker 2: other people struggle with that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think all of us wear masks in life.

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Speaker 1: I have no doubt about that, and how you present.

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Speaker 1: You might present different to your wife than you would

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Speaker 1: to a corporate audience, for example, or your best friend

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Speaker 1: or your brother. I mean, there's all different masks that

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Speaker 1: that we went back to the spiral unit. Everything that

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Speaker 1: you think you have is stripped away very quickly. So

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Speaker 1: it's the essence of who you are is kind of

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Speaker 1: because the shell of the body is broken. Just picture

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Speaker 1: at your absolute warrist moment, and therefore that's then perspective

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Speaker 1: on what truly does matter. And you know, I remember

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Speaker 1: praying for such a long time that I could do

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Speaker 1: something with my life and hopefully I could inspire kids

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Speaker 1: in wheelchairs. And so that's where all that started for me,

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Speaker 1: when everything else was ripped away. So someone has a

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Speaker 1: complete spinal cord lesion, either in their neck or their back,

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Speaker 1: that the brain is credcted to the spinal cord, which

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Speaker 1: is the central nervous system. Basically it serves two functions

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Speaker 1: all the way down to move and on the way

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Speaker 1: up to FI or motor or sensory. So if the

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Speaker 1: spinal cord's being damaged, those messages are then interrupted. So

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Speaker 1: someone who's complete has no movement or no feeling beyond

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Speaker 1: where they've had their level of lesion damage to the

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Speaker 1: spinal cord. Someone like me, which most people are, as

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Speaker 1: I understand, are incomplete, so there are still some sparing

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Speaker 1: of the pathways, so that person would still have some

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Speaker 1: movement and some feeling. And because the spinal cord is

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Speaker 1: so complex, every single person is different, every single person.

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Speaker 1: And I think when I looked at my dad, him saying,

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Speaker 1: so I will give you my legs if I could,

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Speaker 1: which you know my dad has passed away, and you know,

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Speaker 1: those just beautiful words. At the time that a son

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Speaker 1: that was broken needed to hear my brother saying, John,

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Speaker 1: this is going to be a mouth on a post

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Speaker 1: to a sprint. Okay. I couldn't understand that because I

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Speaker 1: used to run around, meaning you know, it's got to

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Speaker 1: take a while. My doctor, family doctor came into visible

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Speaker 1: as well to say, John, don't worry. You will be bigger, stronger,

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Speaker 1: and faster, and then left the room. So what did

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Speaker 1: he do? He provided a seed of hope. Yeah, for

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Speaker 1: someone who had nothing at the top. So that was

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Speaker 1: the perspective to go, Okay, these are the cards that

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Speaker 1: have been dope to me. How do I then start

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Speaker 1: to build a wall of confidence to move forward in life.

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Speaker 2: So, John, you're laying in the hospital bed, You've been

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Speaker 2: through intensive care, you're now in the spinal unit, then

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Speaker 2: you end.

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Speaker 3: Up in a general ward.

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Speaker 2: How long did you stay in hospital after crash?

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Speaker 1: I was there for four months, which is back then

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Speaker 1: that was relatively quick. A part of his complete would

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Speaker 1: be there for at that stage about six months. A

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Speaker 1: quadriplegic would be there for twelve months. Okay, so it's

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Speaker 1: a long long time.

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Speaker 2: You get to a point somewhere around maybe the twelve

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Speaker 2: month mark, where you've been doing your best to build

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Speaker 2: up your muscles.

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Speaker 3: You've been doing your best to build up your strength.

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Speaker 2: You've been hobbling around on crutches, trying to get your

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Speaker 2: legs to work, and it's just not happening. You kind

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Speaker 2: of get to this point where you look at your

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Speaker 2: dad and say, Dad, I'm going to be in a wheelchair.

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Speaker 2: This whole walking thing, I don't think I can do it.

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Speaker 2: And he says something to you that day that remains

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Speaker 2: a living motto for you right now and inspires me.

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Speaker 2: And I love to share your story when I'm talking

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Speaker 2: about resilience with people. Can you describe the scenario leading

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Speaker 2: up to what he said to you and then what

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Speaker 2: he said.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you remember my doctor had said to me, doctor

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Speaker 1: Gabriel was his name is fast as well when he

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Speaker 1: said bigger, stronger, faster. I took that literally. But I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get back and I'm going to run and

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do all the things that I used

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Speaker 1: to do. That was the mindset at the time. So

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Speaker 1: two months after the accident, when I was in the

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Speaker 1: bedroom with my dad, you know, I said to it

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Speaker 1: that I'm trying really hard. And when you talk about

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Speaker 1: people giving one hundred percent and most of us are

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Speaker 1: nowhere near that near that line called out a line.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to say that Usain Bald got really close

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Speaker 1: to his. Maybe he hit his line so as a

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Speaker 1: reference point, so I guess I'd hit my line as well.

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Speaker 1: And I said to that, I'm trying really hard. And

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Speaker 1: Dad then and said he said something, you got hit

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Speaker 1: by a truck. Look out by you come? And that's

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Speaker 1: when the light bulb went off for me, knowing that

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Speaker 1: I was not going to get any better. And that's

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Speaker 1: when he posted the beautiful question, son, how far can

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Speaker 1: you go? Which then allowed me to go, okay, embrace

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Speaker 1: the wheelchair rather than hate the wheelchair. Instead of smashing

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Speaker 1: myself or punishing myself hobbling around the crutches all the time,

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Speaker 1: which took a lot of energy to I then embraced

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Speaker 1: the wheelchair and I was like, okay, what can I

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Speaker 1: do as a wheelchair athlete? And that started to open

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Speaker 1: the doors in lots of different ways. So I'm very

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Speaker 1: grateful that Dad asked that question.

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Speaker 3: I love the question. Look how fa you've come? Now,

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Speaker 3: how far can you go?

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Speaker 2: I can just I can hear parents resonating with that

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Speaker 2: all around the country and around the world going. I'm

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Speaker 2: going to try that next time my child refuses to

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Speaker 2: play the piano or won't do their homework.

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Speaker 3: But look how far you've come. How far can you go? John?

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Speaker 2: You eventually over the next few years, I think it

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Speaker 2: was nineteen ninety three, you trained yourself up and became

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Speaker 2: Australia's first paraplegic triathlete and went back to the Nepean

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Speaker 2: triathlon so that you could.

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Speaker 1: A hand cycle was imported from the US. One of

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Speaker 1: my friends is a fellow para which an athlete had

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Speaker 1: and he said, I don't have a goal, so you

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Speaker 1: actually like, of course, I don't want to have a god.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I went. Okay, now I've got a bike.

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Speaker 1: I could do a triforn again. So that's how that

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Speaker 1: came to life and the right the bike has got

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Speaker 1: a freedom rid made in the US mate of steel.

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Speaker 1: But it was a starting point. It was a wonderful moment.

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Speaker 1: My friend who I played football with, John Young, he

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Speaker 1: came to visit me hospital once a week with his

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Speaker 1: wife for four months. So we talk about friendship and family.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a big ask of your non family.

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Speaker 1: So that was something that we did together, he got

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Speaker 1: me into the water, out of the water, and it

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Speaker 1: was wonderful to cross that finish line. And that was

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Speaker 1: the mountain at the time, which then led on to

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Speaker 1: you know, the whole one. I man watching that on television,

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Speaker 1: which led on to the English channel, which led on

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Speaker 1: too many.

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Speaker 2: Other things, okay, which he says with the dismissive his hand, Amanda,

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Speaker 2: And in so doing, you became one of the world's

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Speaker 2: first Hawaii iman triathlete in a wheelchair. In the last

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Speaker 2: one that you competed in, you actually got in. You

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Speaker 2: cross the finish line ahead of the time for able

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Speaker 2: bodied athletes, and you also swam the English channel, which

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Speaker 2: took you the best part of thirteen hours.

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Speaker 1: I saw a Whilich athlete participate and he didn't finish.

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Speaker 1: Like when offen tide of mi Head. Maybe I could

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Speaker 1: be the first to do so. And it took three attempts.

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Speaker 1: The first attempt I missed the bike cut off by

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Speaker 1: forty minutes. Got finished in fourteen fifty two, went back

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Speaker 1: the next year. I got a flat mister cut off

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Speaker 1: by fifteen minutes. This is the bike time. Finished in

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Speaker 1: fourteen thirty nine, went back the next year. There's now

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Speaker 1: an official category. So I was very happy to cross

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Speaker 1: the line and be and win the category and to

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Speaker 1: be you know, to be acknowledged in the in the

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Speaker 1: world of trithlon and get.

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Speaker 3: To put that in perspective for people who are not

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Speaker 3: familiar with it.

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Speaker 2: We're talking about a three point eight k swim, We're

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Speaker 2: talking about a one hundred and eighty k by ride

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Speaker 2: and then a marathon and you're doing all of that

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Speaker 2: with your arms because your legs aren't working.

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Speaker 3: I mean, that's that's fourteen.

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Speaker 2: Hours or thirteen hours or twelve hours of non stop

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Speaker 2: punishment on your upper body so that you can complete

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Speaker 2: this triathleon. This is no small feet.

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Speaker 4: No it's not.

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Speaker 1: But I think again, as I used to watch that

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Speaker 1: as a kid and was just in alle of the

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Speaker 1: athletes who were able to push themselves to do that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, weirdly, you know, I found myself many years

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Speaker 1: later lining up and being a part of it. So, yes,

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Speaker 1: it's a tough day in the office, but remember that

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Speaker 1: little boy within me that dreamed about being an athlete.

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Speaker 1: The door closed when I had my accident in terms

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Speaker 1: of running, but it also opened up in a different

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Speaker 1: way in terms of being a wheelchair athlete, so I

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Speaker 1: started to live the dream in a different way than

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a little boy.

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Speaker 2: You go on to swing the English Channel in about

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Speaker 2: thirteen hours. How far across is the channel?

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Speaker 1: The direct line is twenty one and a half miles,

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Speaker 1: which I think quits to near thirty kilometers, but that's

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Speaker 1: rare that that happens, given the courage and the tides

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Speaker 1: and everything else that goes along. So I was very

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Speaker 1: happy to get to the other side. That was another

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Speaker 1: huge challenge and my thing justin I know we're talking

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Speaker 1: about family, but mopis is always to be seen as equal,

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Speaker 1: not less than equal. So we've briefly spoke about language.

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Speaker 1: And after my accident, I was classified as a paraplegic

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Speaker 1: who then has a disability, and a disability implies that

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Speaker 1: one is less than one another, so to dis someone

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Speaker 1: is not to encourage. So I was found that if

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Speaker 1: I can go on and chase some really big sporting

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Speaker 1: dreams and hopefully in time had a foundation for kids

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Speaker 1: in more chairs, to give them a platform to see

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Speaker 1: themselves as who they are, not under an umbrella or

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Speaker 1: a category that says they're less than others. So that's

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons why I pushed myself so hard

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Speaker 1: doing Iman's and challenge and stuff, to see myself as

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Speaker 1: equal and then have that opportunity for others to do

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Speaker 1: the same.

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Speaker 5: I think it's ironic that I've always said that John

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Speaker 5: was then still striving to be seen as equal, and

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Speaker 5: yet he had.

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Speaker 4: So far surpassed most of us in equality. He had gone,

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Speaker 4: you know, his achievements at that stage, being the first

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Speaker 4: wheelchair athlete to.

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Speaker 5: Complete the Hawaiian I Man and then to swim the

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Speaker 5: English Channel. You know, the persistence and determination he was

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Speaker 5: so far and above equal, and yet he still saw

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Speaker 5: himself and the need to prove himself as equal, Which

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Speaker 5: is an ironic kind of thing when I.

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Speaker 4: Look at it.

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Speaker 2: It is no matter at what point do you come

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Speaker 2: into the picture? Because John's still single at this point, right,

390
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Speaker 2: he hasn't met you, he's not married to you. When

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Speaker 2: do you come into the picture. He swum the channel,

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Speaker 2: he's done the triathlons, he wins medals at the Paralympics.

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Speaker 4: We met in.

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Speaker 5: Two thousand and four, actually, when John was writing his

395
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Speaker 5: first book and I was working for the publishing company

396
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Speaker 5: that published the book. We met then and he was

397
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Speaker 5: actually training for an event called Ultraman, which is basically

398
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Speaker 5: three iron man's rolled into one, which he was training

399
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Speaker 5: for as a wheelchair athlete, which seems even more crazy

400
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Speaker 5: to the average human. We went through the publishing process

401
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Speaker 5: at that point very as much as you know.

402
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Speaker 4: An author, and I was head of sales and marketing.

403
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Speaker 5: So then we were friends for about sort of three

404
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Speaker 5: years through that process, and our relationship changed and we

405
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,560
Speaker 5: really came together as a couple about a year out

406
00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:41,000
Speaker 5: from the Beijing Paralympics for adaptive rowing that John was

407
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Speaker 5: training for.

408
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Speaker 2: And then John goes to win medals at that Olympics

409
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Speaker 2: with his rowing partner, and the two of you become

410
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Speaker 2: a couple.

411
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Speaker 3: The two of you get married, start a family eventually.

412
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Speaker 2: And I'm just listening to this story about this guy

413
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Speaker 2: who's been hit by a truck, become a paraplegic, and

414
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Speaker 2: then who goes and does things that most able bodied athletes.

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Speaker 3: Don't do it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, John, am I right in remembering you were

417
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Speaker 2: the first athlete period to both complete an iron Man

418
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Speaker 2: at Hawaiian iron Man and swim the channel.

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Speaker 3: Is that correct?

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Speaker 1: I like any early days. I liked the idea of

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Speaker 1: being the first, so with the iron Man, and I

422
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Speaker 1: think I just digressing very briefly, but I think that

423
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Speaker 1: opportunities present themselves to all of us all the time.

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Speaker 1: We don't always have our eyes and ears up into

425
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Speaker 1: those opportunities. Example that I saw the Iman on television,

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Speaker 1: so I'm watching it as a wooch athlete. He doesn't finish.

427
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Speaker 1: I saw that a friend of mine that's one the

428
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Speaker 1: English Channel. He said, if I can do it, you

429
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,280
Speaker 1: can do it. That's how it came about. And given

430
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Speaker 1: though I was fortunate enough to be sponsored by Nike

431
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Speaker 1: and Gatorade and these wonderful companies which I clearly would

432
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Speaker 1: never have been sponsored with if I was running around

433
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Speaker 1: playing football. So I was always looking for something and

434
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,240
Speaker 1: they were encouraging me to do so. So when I

435
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Speaker 1: found out that no Wich athlete had done the English

436
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Speaker 1: Channel as well as any iron Man, that was an

437
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,840
Speaker 1: added bonus to be the first, but also again to

438
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:58,640
Speaker 1: inspire kids in WU chairs.

439
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:01,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's about this fear of being visible and

440
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,520
Speaker 2: being represent literally representing so that people can see it

441
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,960
Speaker 2: and believe it. And somebody did that for you, and

442
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,760
Speaker 2: then you were able to do that for even more people.

443
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,119
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm going to come back to you for

444
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 2: a minute, and John, honestly, he sounds like Superman.

445
00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and that's that's what I was going to ask.

446
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 2: I mean, you've made a commitment here, You've met this

447
00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,080
Speaker 2: guy and decided that he is all that, but you

448
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,720
Speaker 2: didn't know how it was all going to work out.

449
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,679
Speaker 2: So for you as an able bodied woman marrying a

450
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:36,760
Speaker 2: man who for want of a better term, and I

451
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 2: recognize wheel chair, a man who's.

452
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 3: In a wheelchair.

453
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 2: He's clearly, yeah, clearly arguing that there's no such thing

454
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:46,719
Speaker 2: as a disability. But here's this guy who's in a wheelchair.

455
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,159
Speaker 2: What concerns and fears did you have as this relationship

456
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,120
Speaker 2: started a bloom and blossom and move in a really

457
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 2: strong direction. And what about your family? What were they

458
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,359
Speaker 2: saying about marrying someone who couldn't walk?

459
00:21:58,520 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 4: Do you know?

460
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 5: I get asked that question quite often, and it's a

461
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 5: really strange thing because there weren't any I mean, I

462
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 5: think if you asked anyone who is married to or

463
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 5: in a relationship with, or you know whose partner has

464
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 5: any form of special need or.

465
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,479
Speaker 4: You know, whether they're in a wheelchair or they're hearing

466
00:22:18,520 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 4: impaired or you know, missing their fingers.

467
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:24,800
Speaker 5: I don't know, you kind of fall in love with

468
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 5: a person, not a situation.

469
00:22:29,160 --> 00:22:31,520
Speaker 4: And I'm not saying that it's for all people, because I'm.

470
00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:34,440
Speaker 5: Sure you know that there are some people that would

471
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,640
Speaker 5: not have gone any further with a blossom and kind

472
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 5: of friendship and relationship because John was in a wheelchair.

473
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,680
Speaker 5: I mean, I'm you know, but for me, it didn't really,

474
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 5: But then there are just other people.

475
00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 4: I think that it doesn't. It just doesn't. It kind

476
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,080
Speaker 4: of doesn't feature you understand.

477
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 5: The limitations around it and that you you know, you're

478
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 5: not going to be going to the beach on the

479
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:58,720
Speaker 5: weekend at the same time. You it's very much John,

480
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,639
Speaker 5: you know, he walks with yours. There wasn't much that

481
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 5: he didn't do it. You know, John used to put

482
00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:06,520
Speaker 5: out the rubbish on in as wheel chairman. He used

483
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 5: to take fifteen or twenty minutes, but you know, I

484
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 5: just used to let him go on and do it

485
00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,200
Speaker 5: because I don't know he was capable of doing it.

486
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,920
Speaker 5: It's not you know, I mean, John's very capable and

487
00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,679
Speaker 5: I think and always has been, I mean completely independent, completely,

488
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:24,920
Speaker 5: So I think initially.

489
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,840
Speaker 4: Maybe my family from probably in particular my father.

490
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 5: The concern was, and you know, it's like everybody, the

491
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 5: concern is are you having sex? And are you a

492
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:36,760
Speaker 5: care or a girlfriend?

493
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:38,919
Speaker 4: You know, at what level of care? I mean, that's

494
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 4: anyone who looks looks at you, you know.

495
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,359
Speaker 5: So I realized that what's going on in their head is,

496
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,719
Speaker 5: you know, what goes on behind closed doors.

497
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 4: And I guess that was, you know, a fair enough.

498
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 5: Concern maybe for my family, but it really, honestly, it

499
00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 5: really didn't come up that much. They knew John's story,

500
00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,679
Speaker 5: so they knew, and they knew it because I'd been

501
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,199
Speaker 5: working with John, so they kind of knew that he

502
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 5: was a reasonably extraordinary independent person.

503
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 4: Anyway, I love.

504
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 3: That phrase, he was reasonably extraordinary. Yeah.

505
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 5: So I guess there wasn't you know, you know, genuinely,

506
00:24:16,359 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 5: for me, it wasn't a particular consideration. I mean, I

507
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 5: did know him beforehand, so I guess I knew to

508
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 5: an extent how he lived day to day and how

509
00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 5: he moved around, and it was more important to me.

510
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 5: I think at that stage, when the relationship started to change,

511
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 5: it was about our connection, our values, and where we

512
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:38,159
Speaker 5: were heading as a couple.

513
00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 4: Not what not, not whether we could go to the

514
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 4: beach or not, you.

515
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: Know, in the most part, and thank you for sharing that.

516
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,640
Speaker 2: I think that parents around the country right now are

517
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 2: thinking to themselves, Okay, so we've got John McLean, who

518
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 2: can put the rubbish out in a wheelchair.

519
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 3: Come on, kids, you know, lift your game.

520
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: You can do this struggling getting our son.

521
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 2: So yeah, well I want to talk about your son

522
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: because you've had a son come along.

523
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 3: Jack.

524
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 2: He's ten years old now at the time that we're

525
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: having this conversation, and he has been privy to some

526
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,919
Speaker 2: pretty extraordinary events. We've really only told I think the

527
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 2: can I say this without diminishing what you've done. We've

528
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 2: told the easy part of the story so far, because

529
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 2: for people who are not familiar with John and Amanda's story,

530
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 2: what happens after they're married and after the Beijing Olympics

531
00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,200
Speaker 2: and these medals at the Olympics is that John gets

532
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 2: it in his head and this is I guess where

533
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:32,959
Speaker 2: I really want you guys to fill in the gaps.

534
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,959
Speaker 2: But John gets it in his head that he's going

535
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,199
Speaker 2: to walk again. He says, I've heard of this thing

536
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,159
Speaker 2: called trema therapy and I've got these people around me

537
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:41,719
Speaker 2: who are saying that I've only got a partial paralysis,

538
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 2: it's not a complete paralysis. And therefore I reckon with

539
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 2: the right people and with the right tools, and with

540
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,560
Speaker 2: the right opportunities, and with the right sponsors and the

541
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,320
Speaker 2: right money and that and the other, I reckon I

542
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 2: can walk again.

543
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 4: The interesting thing for me from the day I met John. So,

544
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:57,880
Speaker 4: I've known John.

545
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 5: For you up fourteen years or so, but he has

546
00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:05,520
Speaker 5: always told me he's going to walk again.

547
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 4: Always.

548
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:10,400
Speaker 5: It was only ever a matter of time or technology

549
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 5: or the world changing or some sort of scientific breakthrough.

550
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 5: As far as John was concerned, he was always going

551
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 5: to walk again. It's just a natural innate. John lives

552
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 5: on the sunny side. He you know, projects a focus

553
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 5: and a direction that is you know, is positive.

554
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 4: And moving forward.

555
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,159
Speaker 5: And you know, in his mind he creates you know,

556
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:35,960
Speaker 5: you've always been like that. That's how I live with.

557
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 5: So he's always said he's going to walk again. And

558
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 5: when this opportunity came up, it kind of did it.

559
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,159
Speaker 5: And I mean, you know, I think he was like,

560
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,800
Speaker 5: you know, I mean, you can explain how it happened.

561
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm shocked and He's like, you know.

562
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:56,600
Speaker 2: See, so what's this opportunity that shocked you? And John

563
00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 2: said that, of course.

564
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,159
Speaker 1: So this is I mean maybe getting up to a

565
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: little bit off topic and I'd be very grief. So

566
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: I kind of visualized this and dreamed about this, and

567
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: then it unfolded. So a dear friend had gone up

568
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: to see Ken Webb. This is the guy who come

569
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: up with the tremotherapy, and we're just happened to be

570
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 1: in Musa at the same time. So we had dinner

571
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: and he said, I'm gonna go and see this guy,

572
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: and I said, okay, let's catch up, you know, before

573
00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: we go back, and so he said, I went up

574
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,159
Speaker 1: there linking. I came back sprinting. So we go up

575
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: there because he said, you know, you should check it out.

576
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 1: It might help your shoulder, which I had saw shoulder

577
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: from all the rotation over the years. And we kind

578
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 1: of explored the piece about being present around. Let's not

579
00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: talk about your history, let's talk about what you're capable

580
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: of and see what that looks like. And then through

581
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 1: a series of questions and trying and using equipment that

582
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: was new and going through a completely different therapy again

583
00:27:54,160 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 1: kind of unlocked it. I always had the potential, but

584
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: the language that I was using for such a long

585
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: time was, you know, my name is John McLain. I

586
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: made a wheelchair athlete. So therefore I stayed in that bubble.

587
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 1: And I think we're all in our own bubbles and

588
00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,960
Speaker 1: kind of can help burst that bubble to say, you know,

589
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 1: do you want to be John McClain woolch athlete or

590
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 1: you know what do you want? I want to walk

591
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: so and then I've kind of had a throwaway line,

592
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: wouldn't be amazing to walk on the bench with a

593
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: man that kind of ah ha? And we just kept

594
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: on playing with that piece and being present and that

595
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: came to life. So you can see that the importance

596
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: of being in the moment really opened up that door

597
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 1: to me. A gentleman by the name of Darren Pierre

598
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:38,680
Speaker 1: as a company called Neuromuscular Orthotics helping kids and adults

599
00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: who need braces and parts to help them improve their walking.

600
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: He saw that story, he got in touch. I went

601
00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 1: to Melbourne, I got fitted up with the lad braces,

602
00:28:48,080 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: you know, and then I kind of lined up. The

603
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: added bonus was having a foundation for kids in wool chairs.

604
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: You know, we raised a whole lot of money, no pressure,

605
00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: and I asked a whole lot of friends would they

606
00:28:58,240 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: be kind enough to come and join me.

607
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:03,280
Speaker 2: You've got through this therapy, and you've just sort of,

608
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 2: as you've shared this story so far, you're kind of saying, yeah,

609
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,120
Speaker 2: we did a bit of this, and we did it

610
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 2: with that, but that you've gone through some intense therapy.

611
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 3: And I'm assuming that it wasn't for a couple of weeks.

612
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: Well it initially, it happened very quickly, so it was

613
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 1: just a shift of focus.

614
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 4: I think it's important tonight. I mean, it's not like

615
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:21,120
Speaker 4: John just got out of his wheelchair and started walking.

616
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 5: I mean, right, you know, and when we say walking,

617
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 5: it was you know too, that's probably a little generous.

618
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 5: I mean it was taking steps, and you know, and

619
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 5: increasingly in a reasonably quick short period of time, over

620
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 5: some six weeks or so, you know, he was taking

621
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 5: more steps, but they were very unusual looking steps. I mean,

622
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 5: you know, it's just important for people to know. I mean,

623
00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 5: he just didn't get out of his wheelchair and.

624
00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: Walk because those muscles haven't borne a load for twenty

625
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: odd years, thirty odd years, and his right leg.

626
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:57,520
Speaker 4: Is all but the shouting is ninety nine percent paralyzed.

627
00:29:57,680 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: So there's always a tripid notion about putting anyw on

628
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:05,000
Speaker 1: my right leg given bone density and how much it's

629
00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 1: actified over all those years. So I was very cautious

630
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: about but then Ken's you've got to You've got to

631
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 1: trust it. Let's see what happens. So as I was

632
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 1: continually to do that, a lot of anxiety comes up

633
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 1: with this process as well, because you have your eyes closed,

634
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 1: which is different. You're switching off the visual cortex, and

635
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: he loads you or puts resistance on in terms of

636
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: a piece of equipment, whether you're pushing or pulling, and

637
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: gets you to go really stolen. So that heightens all

638
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,400
Speaker 1: those levels of anxiety. And Ken's skill is to help

639
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: you manage that anxiety, to bring it back to a baseline,

640
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: to see what's possible. So you're letting go with the

641
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't, just to get into the space

642
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 1: of okay, let's just see, let's explore. So Ken uses

643
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: a lot of language that's encouraging to try and then

644
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: seeing what the response of that trying is. So I

645
00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:58,680
Speaker 1: members spot on it just didn't get up and start

646
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:02,760
Speaker 1: walking there was a lot, a lot of work spent

647
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:05,240
Speaker 1: in the lead up, and I guess I was the

648
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: ideal candidate given being incomplete and wanting to try to

649
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 1: apply an effort together a result.

650
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: Okay, and you just mentioned the lead up, so let's

651
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:16,400
Speaker 2: dive into this. As you begin to see progress, you

652
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: begin to take steps, you begin to apply load to

653
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: your legs. You then decide that you're going to go

654
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: back to the nep And triathlon again, but this time

655
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,360
Speaker 2: you're going to compete as an able bodied athlete. You

656
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 2: haven't run, you haven't jogged, you haven't ridden a bike,

657
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 2: but this is where you're going to go. And so

658
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 2: over the next little while, you actually start to train,

659
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: You get back onto a bike, you start to push

660
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 2: the pedals, you start to actually carry load through your

661
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: legs so that you can so that you can do this.

662
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: And Amanda, you're watching this, and what are you thinking?

663
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 2: Is he crazy or are you thinking he's going to

664
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 2: do this. He's starting to bring sponsors on and raise

665
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 2: funds for the foundation to help kids in wheelchairs? And

666
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: are you thinking, oh, this is this is impossible?

667
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 3: Or do we need to watch our language here and

668
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 3: only be encouraging.

669
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, I remember that the first time when

670
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 5: I saw him walking on a treadmill when he came

671
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 5: back from seeing Ken and you know, he was supported

672
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 5: but per se taking steps on a treadmill very slowly,

673
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,520
Speaker 5: and I'm standing them in the gym with a girlfriend,

674
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 5: and I'm like, this is real, right.

675
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 4: You know, like John sick like because.

676
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 5: It was just it was a bit like, you know,

677
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 5: here he goes again doing something else extraordinary.

678
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 4: But to watch that was really.

679
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 5: It was very extraordinary for me, I mean, and then

680
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 5: to watch it, to watch him improve, and to see

681
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 5: firsthand and tenacity with which he approached it because I

682
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 5: saw Beijing, you know, with his adaptive rowing and the

683
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 5: focus and mentality of him, you know, as an athlete,

684
00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:00,160
Speaker 5: and what that required it.

685
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 4: You know. Then by this stage when he started walking,

686
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 4: we had had Jack.

687
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 5: Jack was about three, you know, and John sort of

688
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,520
Speaker 5: approached just you know, learning to walk again like he

689
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 5: did an event. So again, I mean, for people who

690
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 5: are listening, it's really important to note that, I mean

691
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 5: John trained to walk, you know. He I was the

692
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 5: income earner at that at that point, so and that

693
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 5: was working well for us. John had the flexibility and

694
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 5: we devoted John's time to training to walk. So he

695
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,320
Speaker 5: spent all day every day, you know, walking, you know,

696
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 5: training building strengths.

697
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 4: I mean, he lived that like he was doing an event.

698
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 5: So not many people have that, you know, the luxury

699
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 5: of just saying, Okay, I'm going to just focus my

700
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 5: whole life or walking. So he had, you know, family life.

701
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 5: But you know, it wasn't it wasn't an easy thing

702
00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 5: to do. It took up a lot of a lot

703
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 5: of time and energy from his point of view in particular,

704
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 5: and you know, from us as a family, I mean,

705
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 5: it was a very you know. And then the goal

706
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,360
Speaker 5: became for him to do the Napean Triathlon as a

707
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 5: conventional athlete, which was going to involve a ten k

708
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 5: walk at the end, and you know, I mean just

709
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:20,600
Speaker 5: walking was it was slow, you know, and it was

710
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 5: I'm still unsure and uncertain.

711
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 4: I'll let you evolve on how that panned out.

712
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,239
Speaker 2: Yes, so you've set this goal and you said, I'm

713
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 2: going to go back to the Nepean Triathlon, the one

714
00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 2: that I was training for in nineteen eighty eight when

715
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 2: I was hit by the truck, the one that I

716
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 2: competed in for the first time as a wheelchair athlete.

717
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 2: Now I'm going to go back and I'm going to

718
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:43,359
Speaker 2: do it in two thousand and twenty fourteen as an

719
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 2: able bodied athlete. And of course they were happy to

720
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 2: have you along and you did it as a fundraiser.

721
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:49,799
Speaker 3: What I love.

722
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 2: And you can see this on YouTube. In fact, I'll

723
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 2: share a link in the show notes for the podcast.

724
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 2: John does the swim, then he does the ride, but

725
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 2: he can. It's that ten k run slash walk with you,

726
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 2: Amanda and with Jack. The three of you crossed that.

727
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,399
Speaker 2: I'm going to get all weepy just talking about it.

728
00:35:08,560 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 2: You cross that finish line together.

729
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean it was pretty amazing. I mean I

730
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,919
Speaker 5: think to put in the picture the ten k walk.

731
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 5: It was in Penrith, It was in November. It was

732
00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:26,120
Speaker 5: thirty seven degrees and John had a full a full

733
00:35:26,160 --> 00:35:30,399
Speaker 5: body like fixed thermal like a boxing suit to keep

734
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 5: his body a bit straight, and then he had woolen

735
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,680
Speaker 5: tights on to hold the leg brace and a long

736
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 5: sleep you know, cycling shirt you know, and the leg

737
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 5: brace and poles and things in thirty seven degree heat.

738
00:35:45,560 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 5: And it took him three and a half hours just

739
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 5: to do the ten k walk, having already done what

740
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,240
Speaker 5: was it one case swim and the thirty k bike ride.

741
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,520
Speaker 4: So you know, the walk was long, and it was slow,

742
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:02,000
Speaker 4: and it was hard.

743
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:03,959
Speaker 5: I mean it was and it was it was hard

744
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 5: to watch, you know from my point of view, because

745
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 5: he deteriorated through the walk. You know, we his feet

746
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,879
Speaker 5: had turned into you know, not particularly good like.

747
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 4: Hamburgery looking little things, which wasn't very good.

748
00:36:21,120 --> 00:36:22,840
Speaker 5: So we were patching him up, you know, as he

749
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 5: was walking, we were trying to keep him hydrated. The heat,

750
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,360
Speaker 5: you know, heat and exhaustion did get to him, and

751
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 5: we lost him a couple of.

752
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,799
Speaker 4: Time, not loose, but you know, he did have to

753
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 4: lie down a couple of times when we were pouring

754
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 4: ice into his camp.

755
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:37,160
Speaker 5: And to be there watching him and be alongside him

756
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,440
Speaker 5: was you know, it was quite an anxious kind of time.

757
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,160
Speaker 4: And then Jack just joined us. He again, he was

758
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,919
Speaker 4: just on four. Then he just joined us.

759
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:51,320
Speaker 5: For the last sort of half a kilometer under duress,

760
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:55,240
Speaker 5: telling us could we hurry up? It was hot because

761
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 5: John was walking so slow. But you know, we lost him.

762
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 5: We lost John. When I say lost, you know, he

763
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:02,520
Speaker 5: sort of passed out a little bit about one hundred

764
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 5: meters out and we were trying to get him back in.

765
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 4: Jack's leaning down and you know, tapping him on the

766
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 4: on the face.

767
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 5: Going daddy, daddy, you know, come on, daddy, wake up, daddy,

768
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,320
Speaker 5: wake up, you know. And obviously John did a minute

769
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 5: and I think there was no way that he was

770
00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 5: never going to do it, but it was it was

771
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,760
Speaker 5: an anxious thing to go through as a as someone

772
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 5: so close to him.

773
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:27,560
Speaker 4: I think litt alone for what he was experiencing himself.

774
00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: Obviously, I watched the clip on YouTube and see you finishing,

775
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 2: and it doesn't look like that. It looks like one

776
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 2: of those rocky moments, like you know, victory and we've

777
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,239
Speaker 2: done it. So hearing that additional story just makes it

778
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 2: that much perhaps not quite as romanticized, but no, it

779
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,359
Speaker 2: was hard, but it just.

780
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 3: Makes it sound extraordinary.

781
00:37:50,120 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 2: And then of course in the same clip, there's you

782
00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 2: and your family, John walking along the beach, you know,

783
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 2: achieving the dream, and we began this conversation as you

784
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,360
Speaker 2: walk you literally you're walking around your house. You walked

785
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 2: into the room and as you said, your right legs

786
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:06,799
Speaker 2: still it doesn't quite work just right.

787
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 3: There's still some issues.

788
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 2: With that, but it's astounding to be having a conversation

789
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 2: with a guy who is not supposed to walk, and

790
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,160
Speaker 2: you're walking, and like you said, it's about that language.

791
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,360
Speaker 2: It's about that belief and being present and saying, well,

792
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: where do I want to go?

793
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 3: Now, we're running.

794
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,840
Speaker 2: Short on time because this is such an amazing story

795
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,879
Speaker 2: and we could just talk about this for the whole day.

796
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: But a couple of quick questions. First of all, what

797
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: do you think it's like for Jack? Does he see

798
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 2: you guys as exemplars and extraordinary inspirational examples or does

799
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: he roll his eyes and get tired of these resilience

800
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 2: focused you can do it parents who are always saying, look,

801
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: how fa you've come?

802
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,319
Speaker 3: Jack? Now, how far can you go?

803
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 5: Yeah?

804
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 6: So that was.

805
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: Words from my dad to me, and you know the

806
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 1: backstory for him to ask that question at that time.

807
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: So I think if you looked at three generations, let's

808
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,640
Speaker 1: talk about my dad's, let's talk about mind, let's talk

809
00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 1: about Jack's. So I mentioned that my dad's love was singing,

810
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,040
Speaker 1: not mine. My love has always been movement. So that's

811
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,320
Speaker 1: been my journey and Jack's, I think it's safe to

812
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:10,719
Speaker 1: say it for us, is that he's a creative little

813
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: guy who's he lives in his head and it's just

814
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: awesome to watch him be himself. So I had no

815
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,600
Speaker 1: we had no expectation in him, you know, being a

816
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 1: sport guy, because neither would my dad have had any

817
00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:26,080
Speaker 1: expectation of me being a singer. So I don't say

818
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: those questions to Jack about I do say, but always

819
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: wanted to try his best. Mom and dad would like

820
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:35,440
Speaker 1: him to do that. So I think he's he's his

821
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:37,439
Speaker 1: own little guy, doing his own little thing, and where

822
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: you know, we love him and support him for whatever

823
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:40,200
Speaker 1: he chooses to do.

824
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I think we initially before we before

825
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 5: we knew that he really wasn't. I mean, he plays sport,

826
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 5: but he's just not a supporting guy. I mean he's

827
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 5: not he's not fast, he's not highly competitive.

828
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,279
Speaker 4: He just, you know, if he likes to do it,

829
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 4: he goes and does it. If he doesn't want to

830
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,560
Speaker 4: do it, he just doesn't do it. But he loves

831
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 4: to draw.

832
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:01,360
Speaker 5: He's a great artist, you know, he loves imagination, play,

833
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 5: all of that sort of thing.

834
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:04,560
Speaker 4: He's And I.

835
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 5: Think before we worked that out, we were really conscious

836
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 5: that we didn't want to growing up in John's shadows.

837
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 5: So you know, we didn't want people saying, you know, Jen,

838
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 5: your first triathleon yet Jack. And you know, when you're

839
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 5: well one day, you know you do, you'll have to

840
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 5: do a double crossing at the channel, and you know,

841
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:24,520
Speaker 5: just those sorts.

842
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 4: Of things which are natural enough things to say.

843
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 5: And he only knows John's story, but he doesn't really

844
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,200
Speaker 5: pay much attention, if I'm honest, unless unless he thinks

845
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 5: it's quite cool that Dad's got a book. Sometimes you know,

846
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 5: if someone asks, and you know, you'll go, oh, yeah,

847
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:43,239
Speaker 5: my dad's got a book, or you know, maybe there's

848
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 5: a movie or something. But he's really pretty nonplussed about it.

849
00:40:48,040 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 5: And we really give him, you know, for us, it's

850
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 5: more about him than it is about us, and it's

851
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 5: about you know, what he wants to do in supporting.

852
00:40:58,040 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 4: Where he wants to go.

853
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 5: So he does live in a very I mean, as

854
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:05,880
Speaker 5: I said, John's very sunny side, So he lives in

855
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 5: a very can do environment, I guess, especially from John's

856
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 5: point of view. You know, he sees Dad out there,

857
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,040
Speaker 5: you know, trying to ride a bike or trying a

858
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:16,279
Speaker 5: new league grace or getting on the treadmill or you know,

859
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 5: but he he doesn't really care, you know too much.

860
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 3: Kids.

861
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:24,160
Speaker 2: Kids are kind of oblivious, aren't they sometimes? And that

862
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 2: might bet that might be a good thing. Maybe now

863
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: I met it. We're almost out of time, and there

864
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,279
Speaker 2: are five questions that I always wrap every one of

865
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:32,960
Speaker 2: these Pairenting in.

866
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 3: Perspective podcasts with.

867
00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: But before we get there, I really want to bring

868
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 2: you right into the light because I'd imagine that the

869
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 2: support John's needed over the years is pretty extraordinary. So John,

870
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 2: can you talk a bit about what it's like to

871
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 2: be married to Amanda and how the two of you

872
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 2: have come together and created that sense of unity and

873
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: mutual support and belonging that seems to work so well

874
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 2: for you both.

875
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 3: What makes your marriage go so well?

876
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I guess I was chosing sport dreams for

877
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:01,439
Speaker 1: a long time. I realized I was kind of missing out,

878
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:03,839
Speaker 1: and you know, a lot of my friends had gone

879
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: on to get married and have kids. So, I mean,

880
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 1: we met in unusual circumstances and with the stage of

881
00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: life that we were both at. So the thing that

882
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:15,239
Speaker 1: we had straight away we had things in common in

883
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 1: terms of life lived experiences. Had So when I kind

884
00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 1: of first started to you know, find out whether Amanda

885
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,520
Speaker 1: would be remotely interested in men as a partner. Then

886
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: things really started to just fit into its groove. And

887
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: I think it's safe to say interested in Amanda's perspective,

888
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:35,640
Speaker 1: but were completely opposites, but completely and that's why it works.

889
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,319
Speaker 1: So there are times for frustration or both, no doubt.

890
00:42:38,360 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: But so Amanda is the glue the kids that our

891
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,279
Speaker 1: family together, and she kind of she gets Jack. I

892
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: may comment on a regular basis that you know, for

893
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,439
Speaker 1: us in terms of whitepinion, she's the world's best mum.

894
00:42:49,719 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 1: And Jack's just so lucky to you know, to have

895
00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: his mom as his mum. And you know, so I

896
00:42:56,640 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 1: sit back every own again observe, which sometimes but Amanda

897
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 1: is just perfect for us as a family, and I'm

898
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,439
Speaker 1: really lucky to have her as a wife and Jack

899
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 1: to head as a well.

900
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 5: We often say that John's big picture and I'm detail

901
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 5: and any kind of detail organized person who lives with

902
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 5: the big picture, dreaming person will understand that there are

903
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 5: natural tensions and frustrations that can come with that. So

904
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 5: I mean we're by no means, by no means perfect.

905
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 5: You know, I have some sort of idealic marriage by

906
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 5: any stretching the imagination. But what we do have is

907
00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 5: I think we pick our fights and I think we

908
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 5: don't swept this small stuff so much. To a certain extent,

909
00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,680
Speaker 5: we know our role, not know our roles, but we've

910
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 5: evolved into our own roles in a way, especially with Jack,

911
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 5: and I think there's a difference between which is you know.

912
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 3: Works well no matter.

913
00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 2: I've been watching the way John's speaking about you, in

914
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:52,920
Speaker 2: the way he looks at you or you're speaking, and

915
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: I feel confident in my professional opinion to say that

916
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure he's crazy about you.

917
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:00,879
Speaker 1: Nice good observations.

918
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:02,919
Speaker 3: Doc there, guys.

919
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 2: Let's let's wrap this up with these five questions that

920
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:09,000
Speaker 2: I really love to play with and get into. If

921
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 2: we were to ask Jack his favorite thing to do

922
00:44:10,719 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: with you, what would he say at the moment.

923
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: He loves cars in particular. His favorites are A land

924
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: Beginni Guyosa. So I'm tak him to look at really

925
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: cool fast cars.

926
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,280
Speaker 5: It'll be for me it would be the nighttime snuggle.

927
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 5: I'm kind of you know, the real mum. So it's

928
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 5: like the snuggle at night before it goes to be.

929
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 5: That's that's kind of his thing with me.

930
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, best of both worlds. Okay, what's been your trickiest

931
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:33,719
Speaker 3: parenting moment.

932
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, Jack's kind of anxiety things, so I kind of

933
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 1: struggle around that. It's not my strength at all, that

934
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: would be something I struggle.

935
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 5: I think Jack does suffer from some anxiety and some

936
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 5: low self esteem kind of issues, so he can get

937
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 5: triggered and he can have difficulties in that space, and

938
00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 5: trying to get him out of that and having the

939
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 5: right amount of patience and understanding and connection to all

940
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:00,799
Speaker 5: him out is.

941
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 4: Hard for us.

942
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 5: He has his own little quirks and they can you know,

943
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 5: they can be quite hard to manage.

944
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, so tricky when you're such a such a driven

945
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 2: person or a driven couple, and there's so much hope

946
00:45:14,719 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 2: and there's so much to achieve, and then you've got

947
00:45:16,239 --> 00:45:18,920
Speaker 2: this person who might quite listen to you because they're

948
00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 2: caught up in what's right in front of them and

949
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: it's dragging them down and you want to build them up,

950
00:45:22,719 --> 00:45:25,440
Speaker 2: but they they're just so in the moment that you can't.

951
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 2: What about this question, This is my third of the five.

952
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:30,720
Speaker 2: If you could spend an hour with Jacket any age

953
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: at all, what age would you pick and why.

954
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: I love where he's at at the moment because I'm

955
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,400
Speaker 1: always kind of trying to live in the moment and

956
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: is evolving in the ways at the moments just awesome.

957
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 1: But if I was to look back, I miss those

958
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: cuddles when he wanted to give us kind of to

959
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,120
Speaker 1: give Daddy a cuddle, where now it's us for a cuddle.

960
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,799
Speaker 1: He kind of turns his back, so it's me kind

961
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:51,839
Speaker 1: of cutting him, not in cutting me, but in all

962
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 1: stages have been amazing and I'm loving him where he

963
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: is right now.

964
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,200
Speaker 5: I mean that is impossible for me to answer. I

965
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,479
Speaker 5: mean I would have every single moment all over again.

966
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 5: I mean, I like, you know, i'd have him back

967
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 5: as a baby, as a three year older, I'd have

968
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,200
Speaker 5: him back, and as terrible to like, you know, any time,

969
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,120
Speaker 5: any anyway, he's you know, he's an awesome little guy

970
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 5: and has been right the way through.

971
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,520
Speaker 2: I've asked I've asked that question a lot of times

972
00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,239
Speaker 2: a man, and nobody's ever said that, And that is

973
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:18,120
Speaker 2: just so beautiful.

974
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 3: Thank you.

975
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 4: Oh really, I just kind of I just couldn't. Yeah,

976
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 4: I couldn't distinguish one from the other.

977
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, matter how good life's been, and no

978
00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: matter how glad you are to be in the moment, John,

979
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 2: what are you most looking forward to his parents?

980
00:46:31,880 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: I'm a father. I'll afford to being a grandfather, but

981
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:36,960
Speaker 1: which I think that's going to take a bit of time.

982
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,120
Speaker 1: That's what I'm going to keep, don't know what. I'm

983
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: going to keep being helping so I can be around

984
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: for while.

985
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 5: Seeing who Jack becomes and what he overcomes is the

986
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:46,720
Speaker 5: thing for me. You know, I'm really interested to see

987
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,200
Speaker 5: who he becomes, you know, how this creativity that he

988
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,280
Speaker 5: has manifests as he gets older, and how he starts

989
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 5: to manage himself and learn about his own self and

990
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,799
Speaker 5: his anxieties and things. I've had issues without myself and

991
00:47:01,840 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 5: they came later in life for me, and I think

992
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 5: our focus is trying to help him to understand who

993
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 5: he is and you know, had a best manage when things.

994
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,040
Speaker 4: Don't go don't go to plan. And I'm you know,

995
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 4: I'm looking forward to seeing how he takes on the world.

996
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 2: I guess final question, if you could go back to

997
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 2: John and Amanda maclain as young parents, even though you

998
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 2: weren't quite so young, but you know you're having one

999
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 2: of those tough moments. You've got no experience at actually

1000
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:31,719
Speaker 2: raising a child. What advice would you give yourself if

1001
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:32,960
Speaker 2: you're starting all over again?

1002
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:35,560
Speaker 1: Just stay in the moment, because at the moments are

1003
00:47:35,600 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 1: so sleeping, The gard by so quick. So you know,

1004
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: sometimes he's on his trampoline, I'm thinking about other things

1005
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:43,200
Speaker 1: when all he wants me to do is watch them

1006
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:45,840
Speaker 1: on the trampoline. So examples of staying in the moment.

1007
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:49,279
Speaker 1: But again, we're kind of loving him evolved. But you know,

1008
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 1: it's challenging with all the things that are happening all

1009
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 1: the time about trying to stay in the moment. But

1010
00:47:53,400 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 1: that's what.

1011
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:55,239
Speaker 3: I'll do, right What about your manna?

1012
00:47:55,719 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 4: I think for me it's patience and intuition.

1013
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 5: I think not that I have had a lack of patience,

1014
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:04,480
Speaker 5: but just really understanding that taking the time to understand

1015
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 5: him as a as a person, rather than thinking that

1016
00:48:07,920 --> 00:48:10,280
Speaker 5: maybe you know, the terrible twos are the terrible twos,

1017
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:14,719
Speaker 5: there might be something more to that, or misbehavior is misbehavior.

1018
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 4: You know a lot of the.

1019
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,279
Speaker 5: Time, you know, for Jack in particulars as he's grown up,

1020
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,200
Speaker 5: the more time that I spent trying to help him

1021
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 5: and work out who he is. The more we've been

1022
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 5: able to connect, and that emotional engagement and understanding who

1023
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,799
Speaker 5: he is, and that sometimes triggers for behavior.

1024
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,000
Speaker 4: You know, the behavior is something deeper. It's not just

1025
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,040
Speaker 4: a belligerent kind of reaction to something.

1026
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 5: And I think I would tell myself earlier just to

1027
00:48:43,920 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 5: understand that sometimes kids aren't just you know, naughty for

1028
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,319
Speaker 5: the sake of being naughty. I mean there is a

1029
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 5: or they're not, you know.

1030
00:48:50,400 --> 00:48:51,680
Speaker 4: Sad for the sake of being sad.

1031
00:48:51,719 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 5: There's actually you know, there's things behind there, and you know,

1032
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 5: use your intuition.

1033
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 3: Wonderful.

1034
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,479
Speaker 2: So if people want to find out more about you, John,

1035
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 2: you've written a book, tell us about the book or books?

1036
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:08,360
Speaker 1: Yes, again taking the liberty of using the question that

1037
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: was close to me for my dad. The title of

1038
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: the book is how Far Can You Go? I thought

1039
00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,959
Speaker 1: that was quite apt. So that's the name of the book.

1040
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:15,360
Speaker 2: And I've read that book and I love it, and

1041
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 2: it's available online everywhere, and it's just it tells the

1042
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 2: story so brilliantly. So how Far can You Go?

1043
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:21,919
Speaker 3: As the book?

1044
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: And also people an access that via our website, johnal

1045
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 1: Claim dot com dot are you Yeah? So excited about

1046
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:29,879
Speaker 1: almost finished the next book. It's about to come out.

1047
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,520
Speaker 1: What are the steps to change? Changes? My topic? What's

1048
00:49:33,560 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 1: the methodology? So it's coming out soon. That's titled change

1049
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:38,160
Speaker 1: a Constant.

1050
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 2: Challenge and I love I love the play on words.

1051
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 2: There were steps to change. And lastly, you run a foundation,

1052
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 2: the John McLain Foundation. Tell us a bit about that

1053
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 2: and how people can find out more.

1054
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, the foundation JMF dot com dot au John McClain Foundation.

1055
00:49:52,200 --> 00:49:54,520
Speaker 1: We help kids in mud chairs around our countries to

1056
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,719
Speaker 1: improve their quality of life via it could be a

1057
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: bit of sporting equipment, it could be a computer, would

1058
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,920
Speaker 1: be a musical instrument. Often the families are doing it

1059
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:06,799
Speaker 1: quite tough, sometimes individual families, so it's means tested. We'll

1060
00:50:06,800 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: get out there to try and give a little bit

1061
00:50:08,040 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: back and that's what the John McClean Foundation does. So

1062
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:11,799
Speaker 1: I'm being kids in wheelchairs.

1063
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: Well, John and a man of mclin thank you so

1064
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 2: much spending this time so generously and sharing your story

1065
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:18,520
Speaker 2: and your advice and.

1066
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:20,879
Speaker 3: Your wisdom and ideas. It's been wonderful to chat.

1067
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 4: Thanks so much. Thanks for having us, it's been great.

1068
00:50:26,480 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 2: Well, if that conversation has not inspired you to get

1069
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:30,879
Speaker 2: out and live life to the fullest time. I don't

1070
00:50:30,880 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 2: know what will what an incredible story. I really hope

1071
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:38,160
Speaker 2: that you've taken some inspiration from John and Amanda's story

1072
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,560
Speaker 2: as a result of this Parenting in Perspective podcast. I

1073
00:50:41,600 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: love the phrase that Amanda used to describe John reasonably

1074
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 2: extraordinary and that visual image of John taking the bins

1075
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,680
Speaker 2: out in his wheelchair, even though it would take him

1076
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes. Just wonderful, resilience, tenacity, growth, extraordinary stuff. You

1077
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,719
Speaker 2: can find out more about John and the work of

1078
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 2: the John mcclin Foundation at John McLain dot com. And

1079
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,359
Speaker 2: we've also put his book How Far Can You Go

1080
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,040
Speaker 2: into Our Happy Family's website, the what we Love page

1081
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,359
Speaker 2: where we highlight all the things that we think are great.

1082
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 2: You can jump on there, and that's the easiest way

1083
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 2: to find Oh, it's one of many easy ways to

1084
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 2: find his book, How Far Can You Go.

1085
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:17,120
Speaker 1: Well.

1086
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 2: Coming up on the next Parenting in Perspective podcast, we're

1087
00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:23,480
Speaker 2: going to be talking about kids, independence and resilience with author,

1088
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,440
Speaker 2: TV host and founder of the Free Range Kids movement LENORSKANESI.

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00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,440
Speaker 6: There's no way to be a parent without being worried,

1090
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,480
Speaker 6: or at least I haven't figured.

1091
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:33,839
Speaker 4: That out yet.

1092
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 6: When my mom let me walk to school and it

1093
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 6: was age five, and she didn't do it because she

1094
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 6: was a free range mom or a crazy person. She

1095
00:51:40,880 --> 00:51:42,920
Speaker 6: was doing it because everybody let their kids walk to

1096
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:46,200
Speaker 6: school at age five. You weren't thinking that a normal mom,

1097
00:51:46,280 --> 00:51:50,520
Speaker 6: a normal good mom, should be thinking about the murder

1098
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:53,560
Speaker 6: of their child every time the child was out of

1099
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 6: their sight. That is new, and it feels normal because

1100
00:51:58,280 --> 00:52:01,200
Speaker 6: it is normal to worry. But I feel like these

1101
00:52:02,000 --> 00:52:06,000
Speaker 6: new extravagant worries are super imposed on us by a

1102
00:52:06,120 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 6: culture that's.

1103
00:52:07,040 --> 00:52:09,640
Speaker 2: The founder of the free range Kids movement and let

1104
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,320
Speaker 2: grow dot Org Lenorskenesi my next guest on the Parenting

1105
00:52:13,440 --> 00:52:16,479
Speaker 2: in Perspective podcast, And as always, just before we wrap

1106
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,440
Speaker 2: this up, thank you so very much to everybody who

1107
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 2: has left reviews and five star ratings at the Apple

1108
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: Podcasts reviews space. Thank you to cav nineteen eighty who

1109
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:30,760
Speaker 2: said thank you from the bottom of my heart, thanks

1110
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 2: so much. I recently attended your webinar lightning the lockdown Load,

1111
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 2: and I am a fan. It's been three hours and

1112
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:37,759
Speaker 2: I've been going through the topics in your podcast that

1113
00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 2: are relevant for me and my family. I'm excited to

1114
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 2: try some of the strategies you've suggested. We'll let you

1115
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 2: know how I go. Thanks so much again, We'll Cave

1116
00:52:44,560 --> 00:52:46,759
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty. Thank you for the five star review and

1117
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:50,560
Speaker 2: spending three hours just to get started on all of

1118
00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: the podcasts that we've got. We've got over one hundred

1119
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,759
Speaker 2: and twenty about one hundred and thirty episodes now, and

1120
00:52:56,160 --> 00:52:58,439
Speaker 2: the podcast is going from strength to strength. It's great

1121
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 2: to have you listening, and it's just wonderful to get

1122
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:02,160
Speaker 2: your feedback.

1123
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 3: Really appreciate those reviews.

1124
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,920
Speaker 2: By the way, please if you listen to the podcast,

1125
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 2: take a couple of minutes, find the Justin Colson's Happy

1126
00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,800
Speaker 2: Families podcast on Apple Podcasts and leave that review, because

1127
00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 2: everybody gets to find out about the podcast. When you

1128
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:17,960
Speaker 2: do that, the ratings and the reviews make the podcast

1129
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 2: more visible. Apple prioritizes it and we get to help

1130
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 2: a whole lot more families to be happier and hear

1131
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 2: these great conversations. So please help us to get the

1132
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:28,160
Speaker 2: word out or just share it from your podcast app

1133
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 2: so that people can listen that way as well. If

1134
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 2: you'd like more info, on how I can help your

1135
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:35,440
Speaker 2: family flourish, especially if you'd like to have ongoing monthly

1136
00:53:35,520 --> 00:53:40,080
Speaker 2: support via our amazing and growing Happy Families memberships. Visit

1137
00:53:40,080 --> 00:53:43,160
Speaker 2: happyfamilies dot com dot au the family. Like I said,

1138
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,879
Speaker 2: it's growing, It's getting bigger every day. You can also

1139
00:53:45,920 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 2: visit my Facebook page, doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families and

1140
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 2: as always, thank you to Justin Royland for his work

1141
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:54,000
Speaker 2: in producing the podcast and making it sound so great,

1142
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 2: and thank you for listening to Parenting in Perspective a

1143
00:53:58,200 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast