1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,520 Speaker 1: Bunjelung calcotton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:10,800 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,279 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,079 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 2: Just a quick heads up, this episode contains really really 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: distressing themes, so if you're not in the headspace to 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: listen to this, feel free to skip this episode and 10 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 2: we will be back again tomorrow. 11 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 3: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily os. It's Wednesday, 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,240 Speaker 3: the twenty third of August. I'm Sam Kazlowski. 13 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: I'm Zara Seidler. 14 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 3: The worst serial killer of children in modern UK history. 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 3: Lucy let Be has been sentenced to life in prison. 16 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 4: This was a cruel, calculated and cynical campaign of child murder. 17 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,680 Speaker 4: Lucy let Be was entrusted to protect some of the 18 00:00:55,720 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 4: most vulnerable babies. Little did those working alongside her know 19 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:04,640 Speaker 4: that there was a murderer in their midst. 20 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 3: Staff at the hospital where she works alleged they were 21 00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:12,120 Speaker 3: suspicious of her as early as twenty fifteen, and police 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 3: began investigating her in twenty seventeen. So how did things 23 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 3: unfold and why has it taken this long for let 24 00:01:18,920 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 3: Be to be sentenced. I'm going to fill you in 25 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 3: in the deep dive, but first sarrus some news from 26 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 3: politics that is right. 27 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 2: Mark Latham has quit One Nation a week after Pauline 28 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: Hanson removed him as leader of the party's New South 29 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 2: Wales branch. In a letter to state parliament, Latham accused 30 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: One Nation of funneling New South Wales taxpayer money into 31 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 2: Queensland for use in the party's Brisbane office. One Nation 32 00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: now has one member remaining in New South Wales Parliament 33 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: after Rod Roberts left the state party on Tuesday. 34 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,000 Speaker 3: Aita Buttrose has advised the government she won't seek reappointment 35 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 3: as ABC chair next year. Buttrose's five year term as 36 00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 3: leader of the national broadcaster will end in March. The 37 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 3: government will begin a selection process to find her replacement. 38 00:02:03,960 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: Donald Trump says he will turn himself into authorities in 39 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: the US state of Georgia following his indictment last week. 40 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 2: Trump is facing charges relating to interference in the twenty 41 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 2: twenty election. He's maintained his innocence, calling this latest indictment 42 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 2: a witch. 43 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 3: Hunt and today's good news. Australian Sign language will be 44 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 3: taught in New South Wales schools from twenty twenty six 45 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 3: with the release of the first ever Osland syllabus. Osland 46 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: will be offered as an optional course, and decisions about 47 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 3: how it's taught will be made by individual schools and 48 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 3: the education sector. A neonatal nurse in the UK has 49 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 3: been sentenced to life in prison without parole for the 50 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: murder of seven newborns and the attempted murder of another six. 51 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:52,679 Speaker 3: It's been described as one of the longest and most 52 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 3: complex cases in English legal history. 53 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 2: This is simply one of the worst stories I've ever 54 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 2: heard about read about. I grew too, and I mean 55 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: even just having to sit here and talk about the 56 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: facts makes me feel a bit ill, to be honest. 57 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 2: So I think that in talking about it today, we 58 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,320 Speaker 2: should focus on the lessons from this case rather than 59 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: those details of the crimes actually committed. Sam, at a 60 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: high level, can you just tell us what we need 61 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 2: to know? 62 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 3: Well, I guess the reason why we're talking about it 63 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 3: is because after a ten month trial, let Be was 64 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 3: found guilty last Friday of the quote persistent, calculated and 65 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: cold blooded murders of five boys and two girls when 66 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 3: let Be was an employee of the Countess of Cheshire Hospital. Now, 67 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:45,600 Speaker 3: I don't want to dwell on this bit, but let 68 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 3: Be's methods included injecting air into baby's bodies. In multiple cases, 69 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,839 Speaker 3: let Be interfered with babies feeding tubes. Now twenty two 70 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 3: charges were eventually brought against let Be, relating to seventeen babies, 71 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 3: Seven she was alleged to have murdered, and ten she 72 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 3: was accused of having tried to kill. Let Be appeared 73 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:09,160 Speaker 3: to target siblings, killing two of three babies in a 74 00:04:09,200 --> 00:04:12,240 Speaker 3: set of triplets and attacking three sets of twins. 75 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: I think, no matter how many times you read that, 76 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:22,839 Speaker 2: it remains so incredibly distressing to listen to. And I 77 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: think the thing that comes to mind for me is how, 78 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 2: I mean, how does something like this happen in a 79 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 2: public setting, in a hospital. And then how on earth 80 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 2: does it take this long for somebody to be sentenced 81 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: when they have committed crimes that are this horrific. 82 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 3: There's a lot to really get your head around from 83 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 3: the last seven or eight years, And I guess there 84 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 3: are a few key reasons why it's been so slow 85 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 3: to get to this point. First of all, it took 86 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: quite some time for the hospital to formally raise an alarm. Secondly, 87 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 3: the police investigation was lengthy and complicated, and thirdly, the 88 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 3: trial itself went for ten months and involved one hundred 89 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,680 Speaker 3: and ten hours of the jury deliberating. 90 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: You said that it took a while for the hospital 91 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: to raise the alarm. I think this is going to 92 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 2: be my question for every single thing you explain. How 93 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 2: how like how when there are colleagues, and there are 94 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 2: other nurses, and there are doctors, how can it take 95 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:26,359 Speaker 2: that long to raise an alarm on something so serious 96 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: like the death of babies. 97 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 3: Well, one of the other things that's happened this week 98 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 3: is we're starting to learn a little bit more from 99 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 3: doctors who have spoken to the media and some of 100 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 3: the consultants. So doctors at the neonatal unit where let 101 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 3: Be worked told UK media that her name was first 102 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 3: raised in connection with a string of infant deaths in 103 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 3: mid twenty fifteen. Yeah, well that was two years before 104 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 3: the police started their formal investigation. Now again, because of 105 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 3: these new media reports, we've got a bit of a 106 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,360 Speaker 3: sense of what was going on during that time. At 107 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 3: various points, medical staff at the hospital conducted reviews into 108 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 3: a concerning mortality rate in the neonatal unit. Doctors testified 109 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,599 Speaker 3: in trial that by October twenty fifteen, concerns around let 110 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 3: Be were quote on the radar. Despite that, it's been 111 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 3: alleged that let Be went on to attack five more 112 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,599 Speaker 3: babies before she was removed from frontline care at the 113 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 3: end of June twenty sixteen. The decisions made by executives 114 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 3: at the hospital during that period are now going to 115 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,920 Speaker 3: be part of a new investigation, a public inquiry aiming 116 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 3: to shed light on why concerns about let Be weren't 117 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 3: acted on sooner. 118 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 2: I think that is certainly something that most people will 119 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 2: want to understand the answer to and feels like that 120 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 2: should absolutely happen sooner rather than later. But that only 121 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: takes us to June twenty sixteen. When did the police 122 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: then get involved? 123 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 3: Well, when these concerns were first raised, the hospital first 124 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 3: attempted to deal with them quietly without contacting police. Several 125 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: doctors were even asked by hospital management to apologize to 126 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 3: let Be. Following investigations into her conduct in February twenty 127 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:16,840 Speaker 3: seventeen for quote the stress and upset she experienced. It 128 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 3: was then May twenty seventeen where doctors from the Neonale 129 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 3: unit decided to contact local police. They flagged their concerns 130 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 3: over the higher than normal mortality rate for babies between 131 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 3: June twenty fifteen and June twenty sixteen, and as a 132 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 3: result of that complaint, the police launched an investigation called 133 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 3: Operation Hummingbird. Now, this operation initially focused on the deaths 134 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 3: of eight babies, but as it went on it was 135 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 3: widened as more information came to light. And then that 136 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: takes us to the third of July twenty eighteen, when 137 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: let Be was arrested. She was questioned and then released 138 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 3: on bail. She was even arrested several more times, but 139 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 3: wasn't formally charged until November of twenty twenty. 140 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: The fact that she was released on bail again just 141 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: another part of this story that makes no sense, I guess, 142 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 2: especially now knowing what we know and that there's been 143 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 2: a conviction and sentencing. But what happened between her being 144 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 2: charged at the end of twenty twenty and then only 145 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 2: being finally sentenced this week. 146 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 3: I think it's one of those examples where the inefficiencies 147 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 3: of modern legal systems are really on display. At the 148 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 3: same time, you could also say that, you know, police 149 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 3: were carefully gathering a case. They spent six years, according 150 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 3: to them, building their case of court, so that's from 151 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 3: twenty seventeen to twenty twenty three, and that included gathering 152 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 3: thirty two thousand pages of evidence. One of the senior 153 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 3: police investigators said that this was an investigation like no other, 154 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: and I believe that. He said they had to deal 155 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,080 Speaker 3: with it as though it was seventeen separate investigations, and 156 00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:57,040 Speaker 3: they're normally used to dealing with one murder or attempted 157 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 3: murder at a time. Now, according to the police, they 158 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 3: built their case by speaking to around two thousand people, 159 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 3: including staff at the hospital. They also consulted medical professionals, 160 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 3: with one medical record alone reaching eight thousand pages. There 161 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 3: was also thirty hours of video interviews with let Be 162 00:09:15,720 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 3: following her arrests Now, as I mentioned, the trial itself, 163 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 3: when they eventually actually got to a trial after all 164 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,920 Speaker 3: of these years, lasted another ten months. That's long for 165 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 3: a murder trial. With the case of each baby being 166 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 3: discussed in detail. Emotional statements were presented by each of 167 00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 3: the parents, and the timeline of each baby's time at 168 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 3: the neonatal unit was explained and that all takes time. 169 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 2: And so after all of this, the case eventually came 170 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: to an end. Last week, let Be was found guilty 171 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 2: and was then sentenced this week. 172 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,440 Speaker 3: Right, yeah, so she was convicted of murdering seven babies 173 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 3: and attempting to kill six others. Senior Crown Prosecutor Pascal 174 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 3: Jones said let Be worked hard to conceal her crimes. 175 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 4: She sought to deceive her colleagues and pass off the 176 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 4: harm she paused as nothing more than a worsening of 177 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 4: each baby's existing vulnerability. 178 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 3: So let Be a sentenced to life in prison without parole. 179 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 3: Now in the UK, the name that they give this 180 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,599 Speaker 3: sentence is a whole of life order and it's the 181 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 3: strongest penalty a judge can impose after the death penalty 182 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 3: was abolished back in the sixties. Letpy's now only one 183 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 3: of four women to ever receive this sentence. Now, something 184 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 3: worth noting, Zara is that let Be herself wasn't in 185 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 3: the room when this sentence was handed down. 186 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 2: That was so shocking to me. 187 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: Well, it's attracted a lot of discussion. British Prime Minister 188 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 3: Rishi Sunac has said his government will work to ensure 189 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,199 Speaker 3: that those accused of crimes are in court to hear 190 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 3: impact statements from families and their sentence in the future. 191 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,480 Speaker 5: I think it's cowardly that people who commit such horrendous 192 00:10:55,559 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 5: crimes do not face their victims and hear first hand 193 00:11:01,000 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 5: the impact that their crant have had on them and 194 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 5: their families and loved ones. Now we are looking and 195 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 5: have been at changing the law to make sure that 196 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:11,120 Speaker 5: that happens, and that's something that will bring forward in 197 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 5: due course. 198 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 3: Look, I think this is one of those days where 199 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 3: the news is just too awful and we're not a 200 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 3: true crime podcast. We're not trying to get inside the 201 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,120 Speaker 3: mind of Lucy let Be. But hopefully we've given you 202 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 3: enough information to understand the mechanics and the segments of 203 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 3: events in this story. But I do urge you to 204 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 3: look after yourself today. That was a heavy one and 205 00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:35,439 Speaker 3: we'll speak to you tomorrow.