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Speaker 1: Podcasting.

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Speaker 2: Now we're talking right now about necessary jobs.

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Speaker 1: What's deemed a necessary job?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Sure, essential?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, as an essential service, big question mark over

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Speaker 2: sex workers.

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Speaker 4: I know there have been a few outspoken escorts who

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Speaker 4: have said, yeah, they are essential, or they believe they're essential.

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Speaker 2: There's actually a van, a camper van that one particular

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Speaker 2: sex workers using just to go from place to place

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Speaker 2: so that people don't have to leave quarantine for the service.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: In the UK, she's actually been quoted saying she is

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Speaker 4: as important as doctors and nurses. Yeah, and she's doing

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Speaker 4: a tour so she actually it might be a.

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Speaker 2: Purely medicinal route. I mean, who knows, it might be

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Speaker 2: great for your dopamine levels.

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Speaker 1: Okay, you know sure, let's get a doctor on. Well,

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Speaker 1: let's get a jigglo on with that.

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Speaker 4: Who women pay me to give them pleasure.

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Speaker 1: Calling in right now. Cameron Cox is a jigglow.

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Speaker 2: He is also the Sea of Sex Workers Outreach Project

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Speaker 2: or SWAP, which is all about getting sex works out

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Speaker 2: to all the people out there as an essential service.

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Speaker 1: Cameron Joints on the phone right now.

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Speaker 3: Good I Cathern, Yeah, Hi, how are you? Thank you

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Speaker 3: so much for joining us, no problem.

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Speaker 4: Can you shed some light on how COVID nineteen and

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Speaker 4: how isolation has impacted your industry?

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Speaker 3: It hasn't made it easy. It hasn't made it easy

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Speaker 3: for anyone, of course, Yeah for somebody who does you know,

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Speaker 3: close contact work. It's meant a whole rejigging of a

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Speaker 3: lot of things so that some of us can still work.

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Speaker 3: There's can work, and there's some distance work, and yeah.

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Speaker 4: Lots of stuff it can work distance work. So does

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Speaker 4: that mean there are still appointments going on where the

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Speaker 4: client would remain one point five meters away from.

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Speaker 1: The No, no, he's not talking about that.

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Speaker 4: You're not talking about that, Cameron.

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Speaker 1: No, he's talking about camera work.

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Speaker 3: From one and a half meters away from someone. I'm

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Speaker 3: in a public place, and if I'm HEARDing sex in

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Speaker 3: a public place, I'm bracing the law. I think you're

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Speaker 3: you got that round a little bit the wrong way.

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Speaker 3: And guys considered offensive.

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Speaker 1: Is it really? The term jigglow is considered to be

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Speaker 1: an offensive term.

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Speaker 3: Prostitute, all those sort of words. We can use them ourselves,

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Speaker 3: but if you use them, yeah, we don't get very

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Speaker 3: happy about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm so sorry.

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Speaker 3: I didn't think.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I'm glad that you've You're glad you flagged that

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Speaker 2: because I had absolutely no idea is escort.

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Speaker 3: Escort's fine sex workers the general cover term, because it's

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Speaker 3: a whole range of stuff that people do, Cameron.

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Speaker 2: The big debate here is obviously whether or not sex

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Speaker 2: work is essential. That's the you know, that's what Woods

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Speaker 2: and I were just talking about before.

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Speaker 1: What what what's.

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Speaker 2: Your argument for that and can you just talk us

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Speaker 2: through if that's successful at all?

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Speaker 3: Essentially, i'd consider it essential, but you're you're balancing public

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Speaker 3: health here against essentially, so that's a really difficult thing.

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Speaker 3: And I trust for the CMO, the Chief Medical Officer

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Speaker 3: of New South Wales, with that decision, because you've a

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Speaker 3: very experienced woman, of course, and we get input into that,

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Speaker 3: so we're happy with that. But yeah, it's a fairly

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Speaker 3: essential service. It wouldn't have been around for thousands of

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Speaker 3: years and have done as well as it has done

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Speaker 3: with all the attempts to get rid of it. If

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Speaker 3: people consider it fairly essential. And if you were me

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Speaker 3: doing my work and you see somebody turn up at

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Speaker 3: my place, you know, looking haggard and not you know,

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Speaker 3: in the best of spirits and they walk out with

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Speaker 3: a spring in their step. Yeah, you know you're thinking

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Speaker 3: just from a physical point of view. Quite possibly you

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Speaker 3: know the what's going on, But there's there's a very intense,

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Speaker 3: often emotional and intellectual and sometimes even you might say

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Speaker 3: spiritual connection.

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Speaker 1: I understand that pertly.

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Speaker 2: Cameron would And I once had a friend he's sadly

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Speaker 2: with us, but he was a male sex worker and

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Speaker 2: he we were talking to him about at once and

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Speaker 2: he said the most common client that he got was

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Speaker 2: just a lot of guys who were married and they

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Speaker 2: would rock up after work.

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Speaker 1: He worked in the city. They would rock up.

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Speaker 2: Quite late and there was not a lot of sex

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Speaker 2: that went on. In fact, he was just paid to

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Speaker 2: just hold them in bed for a certain amount of

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Speaker 2: time and just listen to them talk to him.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, touches are really important thing, touch and connection. You know,

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Speaker 3: we work with people who live with disabilities who sometimes

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Speaker 3: not touched by anybody. In nicol Mala, you know, I

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Speaker 3: spent a lot of time after session sitting on the

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Speaker 3: edge of the bed, of the bench or wherever. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: a married guy might be married to a female partner

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Speaker 3: or a male partners. Me about his wife and his kids,

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Speaker 3: and you know, and you try and you know, make

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Speaker 3: the right noises and the sympathetical listening. People tell escots

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Speaker 3: that they never tell anybody anyone who lis We don't

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Speaker 3: pass it on.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's amazing to think how intimate you can

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Speaker 2: get with somebody and you know what sort of secrets

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Speaker 2: they'd open up to.

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Speaker 1: Incredible perspective. Hey, Cameron's going to stay.

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Speaker 2: Whether this is a male sex workers part of swap

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Speaker 2: sex Workers Outreach Project. You listen a will and what

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Speaker 2: with a bit of a ton shift from Wood his

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Speaker 2: front porchaer in isolation.

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Speaker 4: We'll expecting that, but here.

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Speaker 2: We are podcasting now a bit of a ton shift

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Speaker 2: here for the boys Woods.

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Speaker 1: We were talking about essential services.

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Speaker 2: Right now, different obviously different professions pleading with the government

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Speaker 2: that they are in essential service, so then get.

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Speaker 1: Business up and running.

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Speaker 2: One of those ones, which you wouldn't expect so much

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Speaker 2: is sex work. And we've got the CEO of Sex

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Speaker 2: Workers Outreach Project. His name is Cameron Cox. He's been

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Speaker 2: escorting since he was seventeen.

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Speaker 1: He's been in the.

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Speaker 2: Game for forty years and they are campaigning to try

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Speaker 2: and make sex working an essential service during COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 2: Pretty interesting stuff, Cameron. Can you talk us through a

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Speaker 2: little bit more about SWAPPER doing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Sure, Look, there's an organization like SWAP in every

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Speaker 3: state of Australia. In fact, we've scattered all around the world,

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Speaker 3: but here in Australia. When we saw this coming and

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Speaker 3: the first stint news Patics was set out, it had

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Speaker 3: very little in it for sex workers and absolutely nothing

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Speaker 3: for migrant sex workers, Indigenous sex workers, people who were

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Speaker 3: going to fall through the cracks. So we immediately, with

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Speaker 3: our National Peak Scarlet Alliance and the other organizations set

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Speaker 3: up an online funding at tusks where people could donate

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Speaker 3: and people could also apply for Those fundings were raised

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Speaker 3: about I think about forty thousand by now, and that's

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Speaker 3: all been distributed almost instantly with and we're also webbing

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Speaker 3: with government for you know, to extend government support to

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Speaker 3: people that don't get it at the moment. And it's

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Speaker 3: not just their sports, it's all across the board. I've

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Speaker 3: had a couple of guys, we've had a couple of

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Speaker 3: guys ring us this week wanting to start set for

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Speaker 3: it because they thought it was a way that they

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Speaker 3: might get some money because led duck here. They're students,

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Speaker 3: they've got no money, they've been working part time jobs

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Speaker 3: to support themselves in the restaurant industries. Those have gone.

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Speaker 3: This guy was living eight to a room in a

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Speaker 3: flat in the city. Not very good for a communical

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Speaker 3: disease like COVID nineteen.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, got two thousand dollars worth of super he can

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Speaker 3: draw down. He's been told to go back where he

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Speaker 3: came from by our government, and he says if he

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Speaker 3: goes back there, he's likely to die because where he

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Speaker 3: has to go back to, that infection rate is enormous

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Speaker 3: and he can't even afford an airfare, so he's stuck here. Wow.

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Speaker 3: You know these sort of things are going on the

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Speaker 3: people who are really really suffering, and it's not just

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Speaker 3: sex focus. Yeah yeah, sex workers who are yeah, so.

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Speaker 2: Of course, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh mate.

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Speaker 4: This has been an amazing shedding of light on this.

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Speaker 4: I'm amazing. Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Yeah really really on that, Chad Kevin.

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Speaker 2: Where can people get involved if they want to help

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Speaker 2: out with SWAP.

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Speaker 3: We're on Facebook. It's what Sex Workers Outbreage Project and

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Speaker 3: you can find us also on Twitter at SWAP New

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Speaker 3: South Wales and we have a website from sowp for

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Speaker 3: swap or you is that?

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Speaker 4: Where? Is that where people find you as well? Cameron,

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Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm not sure like whether you.

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Speaker 2: Are I've just heard Cameron.

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm interested, I'm gonna be I want to

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Speaker 1: chat to a guy.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you can contact me through there as well. My

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Speaker 3: phone numbers there and yeah awesome, okay, I.

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Speaker 4: Mean it sounds like you're talking to me now, but

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Speaker 4: you're talking to everyone.

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Speaker 1: You're really escalated there see what you're hearing.

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Speaker 4: Find us on Instagram and Facebook search Will and Woody