Speaker 1: Welcome back to two Dotting Dads. I'm Mattie Jay and
Speaker 1: I'm As. This is a podcast that is all about parenting.
Speaker 2: It's the good, the bad, and the relatable.
Speaker 1: And as we always say, if you've come here hoping
Speaker 1: to find any kind of advice, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: None not from maybe today.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean we have to say it, but deep
Speaker 1: down we.
Speaker 2: Know that we can't use another lawsuit.
Speaker 1: Hey, this is a bonus episode. It is yes, which
Speaker 1: is very exciting. We do want to say a big
Speaker 1: shout out to Lulu Lemon, yep, friend of the show.
Speaker 2: And this month is also November, Matthew.
Speaker 1: One of my favorite months of the year, Ash absolutely
Speaker 1: where it's shedding a light on mental health, both mental
Speaker 1: and physical, and we are all for that. And if
Speaker 1: you did want to gear up for November, there has
Speaker 1: never been a bit of collaboration between lou Lemon and
Speaker 1: the charity. You can buy November specific appara, both men's
Speaker 1: and women's, and five dollars from every sale will be donated.
Speaker 1: You can look at our socials. Ash and I both
Speaker 1: wearing the November from Them Lululemon T shirts.
Speaker 2: Of course they're very comfortable.
Speaker 1: Although I have to say people may be confused not
Speaker 1: being able to identify who was Ash who was Matt
Speaker 1: because we both have mustaches. Yes, I may say this
Speaker 1: might come across as arrogant. They're on parte. Ash is
Speaker 1: wearing the hat. I am wearing no hat.
Speaker 2: Yes, I am wearing the hat.
Speaker 1: So normally this podcast is all about us just being
Speaker 1: idiots and parents. That's it, and we only ever wanted
Speaker 1: to just be a bit of comedic relief. But this
Speaker 1: episode is going to be a little bit different. Off
Speaker 1: the back of November where we are hearing men's Health,
Speaker 1: we thought it was a great opportunity where we can
Speaker 1: talk about a mental health health journeys. Yes, and I
Speaker 1: think one of the biggest surprises with you Ash, and
Speaker 1: we've only known each other. It's not being that long
Speaker 1: year November, not even twelve months, I would say twelve months,
Speaker 1: but round up hanging out with you, you seem like
Speaker 1: someone who.
Speaker 2: Is extrata together. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But when I first found out that mental health
Speaker 1: was something that you struggled with, I was quite surprised.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, and so thank you.
Speaker 1: I'm keen to know when did you first realize that
Speaker 1: your own mental health was something that you needed help with.
Speaker 2: Uh for me, Like before having kids, I always joke
Speaker 2: about and that's the thing as well. I hide a
Speaker 2: lot behind humor and one line stupid jokes that I
Speaker 2: whip out because.
Speaker 1: You've always I'm assuming you've always been the funny guy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like my dad's very similar to me
Speaker 2: as well. Like real, I don't know, I just had
Speaker 2: to be the funny guy, class clown sort of thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I definitely have had to always been like that, and
Speaker 2: I always joke about that. I don't remember what I
Speaker 2: was like before having kids, because I legitimately don't really remember,
Speaker 2: just because I mean, they just take up so much
Speaker 2: of your life. So like before I kind of just
Speaker 2: thought I was a normal guy. Like I never really
Speaker 2: thought anything of the head noise that I would have
Speaker 2: had or anything like that.
Speaker 1: Were there any moments, this is before kids, where you thought,
Speaker 1: hang on a second, you know, this doesn't feel quite right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: When I was a teenager, there was a couple of
Speaker 2: instances where I did think that, Like I know, I
Speaker 2: just you know, might have felt a little bit sad
Speaker 2: and didn't know why. And then I just sort of
Speaker 2: put it down to nothing really, And I mean as teenager,
Speaker 2: you sort of get on with it.
Speaker 1: You're still kind of regulating your emotions. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it wasn't I mean, the mental health conversation
Speaker 2: wasn't so prominent. Now it's so it's really prominent, which
Speaker 2: is great, so much better because yeah, like I think
Speaker 2: maybe then maybe I would have I don't know, maybe
Speaker 2: I would have thought something's not right if I don't know,
Speaker 2: and it was such a thing, But I didn't really
Speaker 2: know it was such a thing till after.
Speaker 1: Having Yeah, I don't think going through high.
Speaker 2: School the last thing I'm thinking about totally. I don't
Speaker 2: think it about chicks.
Speaker 1: I don't think I could say there was anyone that
Speaker 1: I knew who had depression. It wasn't really a word that.
Speaker 2: Was that you really knew that you would have known.
Speaker 2: I mean that's part of the problem, right, it's the stigma.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, before kids, I just thought I was a
Speaker 2: normal guy and just going along my normal life. I think,
Speaker 2: like as maybe closer to when I was getting married,
Speaker 2: I had a few moments where I was like maybe
Speaker 2: a little bit maybe a little bit, yeah, a little
Speaker 2: bit sad boy, But I just again, I just thought
Speaker 2: that was who I.
Speaker 1: Was when you found yourself in those moments where you
Speaker 1: were sad or upset. Was it off the back of
Speaker 1: anything that had happened. Was there a trigger for that
Speaker 1: or was it just waking up one day and feeling
Speaker 1: not that I can recall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt like sometimes if I was missing out
Speaker 2: on something, then maybe I was a little bit more
Speaker 2: down in the dumps. But I just thought it was
Speaker 2: normal thought that I never thought really anything of it.
Speaker 1: So then when you had Oscar and the situation you
Speaker 1: found yourself in that moment with your mental health, was
Speaker 1: that more severe than what you'd experienced previously.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so like really started when having Oscar is such
Speaker 2: like a big change in your life. Right for everyone,
Speaker 2: it's obviously good. You know, you've made the decision to
Speaker 2: have a child, and well, I'm very excited as you do.
Speaker 2: But like, it's such a big impact on your life.
Speaker 2: And I always say to people that are expecting their
Speaker 2: first kid, like, you can never be prepared. No matter
Speaker 2: how prepared you think you are, you're not. You just
Speaker 2: don't know what you're going to get totally. There's so
Speaker 2: many different variables, but.
Speaker 1: Every kid is is wildly different. I look at Marley,
Speaker 1: I look at Lola and they had just worlds apart.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and like the first you know, the first
Speaker 2: six twelve months was completely different too. So I think
Speaker 2: like when we had Oscar, even from the delivery suite
Speaker 2: where things didn't really go to plan. It was sort
Speaker 2: of he was such a grumpy, grouchy baby.
Speaker 1: If anyone who doesn't know, we've spoken about before, but
Speaker 1: it was a sea section.
Speaker 2: It was ended up being an emergency sea section after
Speaker 2: like twenty four hours of labor. I think, like now
Speaker 2: I look back where actually some of the mental stuff
Speaker 2: sort to shine through was even in the even in
Speaker 2: the recovery suites when we're you know, a couple of
Speaker 2: days in the hospital and me trying to change oscars,
Speaker 2: n happy and not being happy with my performance. Like
Speaker 2: I was like, holy shit, Like that's where like the
Speaker 2: underlending standards, Like I expected myself to be able to
Speaker 2: calm that baby and be able to you know, change
Speaker 2: that baby like immediately, even though I was like, hand,
Speaker 2: that's like my first fucking day on the job, but
Speaker 2: I didn't think anything of it. Then I just would
Speaker 2: get frustrated, so frustrated like immediately, and then yeah, we
Speaker 2: sort of you know, we packed up, went home, did
Speaker 2: that forty k and hour home because you're like just
Speaker 2: thing in the back of the car as every dad
Speaker 2: would do, where you just like so fragile, am I
Speaker 2: strapped in the car correctly, all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 2: And then we got home, and yeah, he was quite
Speaker 2: a cranky baby. He was really uncomfortable. We sort of
Speaker 2: a little bit later found out that he had silent
Speaker 2: reflux and he had dairy intolerance.
Speaker 1: Which is so tough.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so and for anyone who don't really know, he
Speaker 2: would be like asleep for forty minutes the first sleep window,
Speaker 2: and then obviously he would be burning in his esophacus,
Speaker 2: and like we didn't know any of that, and like
Speaker 2: you know, like.
Speaker 1: Like I said, isn't he loving me? Why doesn't he
Speaker 1: love me?
Speaker 2: But like he wouldn't sleep, And then it was caused
Speaker 2: me and April blaming each other for why he can't
Speaker 2: sleep and all that sort of shit, and like, you know,
Speaker 2: as two people in the household, three people in the
Speaker 2: household now just tied all the time, it was really
Speaker 2: taking a toll on April, who's got a feed We're
Speaker 2: not knowing what's wrong. And then I go back to work,
Speaker 2: and I think, did you have off? Initially I had
Speaker 2: two weeks off.
Speaker 1: Oh that was it?
Speaker 2: That was it? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And then I was.
Speaker 1: Did you have matt leeb for yourself?
Speaker 2: Is that no I had? I can't quite recall.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's quick.
Speaker 2: It was only two weeks. And then I went back
Speaker 2: to work for two weeks. And during those two weeks
Speaker 2: it was really really tough coming home to see my
Speaker 2: shell of a wife that I had, because this kid
Speaker 2: had absolutely taken it all day and it was like
Speaker 2: really taking its toll. On April, and after two weeks,
Speaker 2: I've said to my work, I'm going to have to
Speaker 2: take more time off to try and help support. And
Speaker 2: again we still didn't know that Oscar had silent reflux
Speaker 2: and a dairy intolerance.
Speaker 1: You have little brief moments, because Lola was similar where
Speaker 1: she was just didn't sleep, didn't eat, and you have
Speaker 1: little moments where you're like, oh, this is nice, she
Speaker 1: just gave me a smile, and this is yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess that little like spark that I was looking for
Speaker 1: when I was thinking about becoming a new parent. But
Speaker 1: then bulk of it is just screams, screams.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I recall taking a photo of me and Oscar
Speaker 2: when he was so young, and I think a captions
Speaker 2: are in between screams, and people were like, holy shit,
Speaker 2: that hit me hard because they're like, that's so true.
Speaker 2: Those moments in between you got to try and find
Speaker 2: but we weren't finding any, and like it was so
Speaker 2: early days that like, yeah, I've said and thankfully the
Speaker 2: job I had at the time, they were like, yeah,
Speaker 2: take as much time as you need, which is really great.
Speaker 2: They sort of understood that was.
Speaker 1: It a case. And I guess there is this expectation
Speaker 1: of like, all throughout pregnancy, everyone's just like, this is
Speaker 1: going to be the most amazing moment of your life
Speaker 1: and build it up year totally. Like the bar is
Speaker 1: of expectation is so incredibly high, and then when it
Speaker 1: doesn't match that, all of a sudden, you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I'm failing as a family.
Speaker 2: That's kind of what I felt like, Yeah, And it
Speaker 2: also felt like people were always like asking me, oh,
Speaker 2: how's the sleep. Just shut the fuck up and stop
Speaker 2: asking me that fucking question because it's obviously not good.
Speaker 2: Look eggs on my eyes. I'm off work again. Oscar
Speaker 2: was just absolutely draining us to the point where like
Speaker 2: I resented him, which sucks for him. And that's as
Speaker 2: hard as it is for people to hear that I
Speaker 2: fucking hated him. Look, we build a bridge, thankfully, but.
Speaker 1: Like I guess it's like for anyone listening, he maybe
Speaker 1: doesn't have kids. It is a really interesting situation to
Speaker 1: be in where like, at its core, obviously love your child.
Speaker 1: Yeah you know, it's almost like I love that will
Speaker 1: never be broken. But at the same time, it's this
Speaker 1: juxtaposition where this child that you love like unconditionally is
Speaker 1: also the cause of so many problems, so many problems,
Speaker 1: and it's really really strange, and nothing eats you up
Speaker 1: more than those moments of frustration that are directed towards
Speaker 1: your baby.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because then you feel guilty about it afterwards
Speaker 2: because it's like, I don't know anyway. So, like it
Speaker 2: was just getting really, really really bad, to the point
Speaker 2: where it was really affecting April's mental health. She was,
Speaker 2: you know, leaving the house and not coming back, and
Speaker 2: we were having to seek help because she was depressed,
Speaker 2: she hated everything. She was obviously suffering from depression. So
Speaker 2: my first initial thought there is to make sure she
Speaker 2: has help and we did that. We did what we
Speaker 2: needed to do, went saw the GP, and the GP
Speaker 2: said it was really really bad and recommending us this
Speaker 2: place called Sin John of God, which was out at Burwood,
Speaker 2: which April's in denial about that doesn't want to do it.
Speaker 2: They have a really great mother and child program out there.
Speaker 2: And it was like, do we need to do that?
Speaker 2: Is it that bad? And we tried to help ourselves
Speaker 2: before we had to get to that point. I remember
Speaker 2: there was this one day Abe went for a physio appointment,
Speaker 2: like a postpart of physio appointment, and she just didn't
Speaker 2: come back, and I was like, what the Fuck's going
Speaker 2: on here? She didn't come back, and then eventually she
Speaker 2: did and she said I just drove around the block,
Speaker 2: not wanting to come in because I just hated the situation. Wow,
Speaker 2: which was real tough, And at that point, I've made
Speaker 2: the call that we've got to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: When we rang and said you know we're coming in,
Speaker 2: they said, okay, cool, no worries. We went in and
Speaker 2: we checked in like two days later to this mental hospital.
Speaker 2: They were really great and it was a beautiful facility
Speaker 2: and stuff, but essentially I had to drop my wife
Speaker 2: and kid off there left him for eight weeks, which
Speaker 2: I was allowed to visit. I was allowed to stay.
Speaker 2: They were really good. It was really tough. Like I said, like,
Speaker 2: they had great facilities, and I've got this really good
Speaker 2: mother and child program which the child goes in with
Speaker 2: you when you first get there, they obviously know that
Speaker 2: you're fucking exhausted. Essentially, the baby sleeps in the nursery.
Speaker 2: I can't remember how old he was at this point,
Speaker 2: like five or six weeks. He might have been a
Speaker 2: little bit older. But they do all this group stuff
Speaker 2: and they see psychologists and try and they give them
Speaker 2: the tools to really work with it, which is really
Speaker 2: really great. And got to see that.
Speaker 1: So at this point, how was your mental health? Because
Speaker 1: April had been diagnosed and she was seeking help.
Speaker 2: At this point, I had to completely put myself to
Speaker 2: the side. I was like, it is not about me,
Speaker 2: it's about them. It was great for me to get
Speaker 2: some rest as well, to sort of start to see
Speaker 2: things in a bit more light. But yeah, I was
Speaker 2: going back and forth for that whole time. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: was sort of got closer to the end of that time,
Speaker 2: and I remember I had a conversation with my sister,
Speaker 2: and she was like, oh, it's all you know, great
Speaker 2: that she's getting better. She was just like, what about you?
Speaker 2: And I was like, I'd never really and like we
Speaker 2: spoke about the other day, I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: it's kind of like when you're in an aeroplane and
Speaker 2: the oxygen mask dropped down, you got to put yourself
Speaker 2: on before you start to help others. And she was like,
Speaker 2: do you not ever think about that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I was kind of like shit, and it sort
Speaker 2: of planted a seed for me. I remember there was
Speaker 2: like a couple of weeks to go, and they were like, look,
Speaker 2: we're going to allow April to have like a home visit.
Speaker 2: Can't come home for the night. I was going to
Speaker 2: come home too, just for the night and see how
Speaker 2: it goes. It went pretty well, Like it was a
Speaker 2: little bit rocky because obviously know when it's like even now,
Speaker 2: when your kids sleep in a different environment, it's it's
Speaker 2: never great, so you know, but it was really good
Speaker 2: to have them home and eventually they discharged her and
Speaker 2: came home and we were in a much better play.
Speaker 2: Best thing we ever did, like now I look back,
Speaker 2: the best thing we ever did was take up on
Speaker 2: that program and thankfully we were covered under insurances and
Speaker 2: stuff like that, which I know that some people don't
Speaker 2: have that don't have that same thing, and look, there
Speaker 2: should be more of it and more accessible for families.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like they came home and you know, we
Speaker 2: sort of were better equipped and had more knowledge, and
Speaker 2: like it wasn't perfect. We were still going through the
Speaker 2: Now April, we have to look at Okay, she can't
Speaker 2: eat dairy, Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: Of course because then the milk that she's producing.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so then we had to manage the silent
Speaker 2: reflux and stuff. So there were still its challenges, but
Speaker 2: it was you know, chalk and cheese so much better
Speaker 2: because we're you know, well and more equipped, but.
Speaker 1: We're aware of yeah issues, and April.
Speaker 2: Was on the man really well, like she was, you know,
Speaker 2: starting to be more positive and starting to find She
Speaker 2: definitely said that she started to love him much more
Speaker 2: and have those moments and I wasn't having them yet,
Speaker 2: which you know, I accepted because they you know, they
Speaker 2: were living together in a facility.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard, even though deep down you love
Speaker 1: your child to express that love when you're completely overrun
Speaker 1: with that frustration, the relationship with Marley, it was very instant.
Speaker 1: She was a dream child. Yeah, she slept anywhere, she ate,
Speaker 1: she fed beautifully. Yeah, fucking life was easy. And then
Speaker 1: with Lola, that affection was kind of like masked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was masked by the frustration of why aren't
Speaker 2: you like that one?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Like I was happy that everyone was home
Speaker 2: and happy that you know, we're on the end, and
Speaker 2: I think, like it wasn't obvious to me, but it
Speaker 2: was obvious to April that I was getting worse. She
Speaker 2: just said to me that you're different, said something about
Speaker 2: you is different. She said, you're frustrated, You're angry. I
Speaker 2: can see it. I can see it in your eyes
Speaker 2: that you're just not something's not rare and for me,
Speaker 2: and like, deep down for me, I was essentially without
Speaker 2: me knowing, planning my escape from the situation. Still even
Speaker 2: what do you mean by that? I just didn't want
Speaker 2: to be there anymore. I just there was conversations that
Speaker 2: I had had with April saying that I don't love
Speaker 2: this kid, and it was like, that's to say it now.
Speaker 2: It is heartbreaking, but it was like that was the
Speaker 2: situation that I didn't want to be there anymore. Didn't
Speaker 2: mean self harm. It just means I just wanted to
Speaker 2: move on from this. And when they were in a position,
Speaker 2: my honest thoughts at the time were, once they're in
Speaker 2: a position where they're comfortable, I'm going to leave, which
Speaker 2: now it fucking breaks my heart to say that, but
Speaker 2: that was the god honest truth. And I remember April
Speaker 2: saying to me, you know we're getting better, you're getting worse.
Speaker 2: And she kept saying that to me, she said, you
Speaker 2: need to sort this out.
Speaker 1: At that point, did you agree with her? Were you
Speaker 1: thinking maybe I could have something wrong with my mental health?
Speaker 2: Yeah, when she was blunt to me and said that,
Speaker 2: you know, we need to have a look at this.
Speaker 2: Because you helped us, we need to help you. And like,
Speaker 2: thankfully we had built like a bit of a rapport
Speaker 2: with our GP over all of everything that happened with April.
Speaker 2: And as soon as I booked that appointment and sat
Speaker 2: in her office, she knew straight away and I was
Speaker 2: just a fucking mess, and she was just like, holy shito.
Speaker 2: She was just like, you guys have forgotten. You guys
Speaker 2: get forgotten so much because it is all about mum
Speaker 2: and the baby, as it should be because she's providing life,
Speaker 2: she's nurturing, she's you know, feeding. She's like I always
Speaker 2: say that that first big moment, you know distances there
Speaker 2: are newborn is that you could be any old blob,
Speaker 2: but you won't be mum, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: But it's also a teamwork between mom and dad, and
Speaker 1: obviously there is a big difference between she's.
Speaker 2: The team captain totally. But yeah, I remember when I, like,
Speaker 2: I said, I saw the GP and she was just like,
Speaker 2: you know, we did all the testing to like how
Speaker 2: I'm actually feeling, and she was like, we need to
Speaker 2: sort this out.
Speaker 1: So what's the steps from that moment?
Speaker 2: For the steps from that moment is you come up
Speaker 2: with a mental health plan with your GP, which is
Speaker 2: really important, just to sit down and talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: what the plan is, what resources are available, and how
Speaker 2: you want to tackle it, and what you're comfortable with
Speaker 2: as well, which you know, she was saying to me,
Speaker 2: I get a lot more women than men, and she
Speaker 2: was very honest about that, and she was like, but
Speaker 2: she she said, I would love to see more men
Speaker 2: because so many couple sit in here and I can
Speaker 2: see it that maybe I don't know. Something is not
Speaker 2: right and she was like, you're at a point where
Speaker 2: you've made the decision to be here, which is the
Speaker 2: best decision you've made? And it was. And we went
Speaker 2: from there in terms of referrals to who would benefit
Speaker 2: me the most in the area? Is there some resources online?
Speaker 2: How far did I was? I willing to go to
Speaker 2: make myself feel better? Made it really easy, So you know,
Speaker 2: I made the decision at that point to see someone professionally,
Speaker 2: and April was like, whatever it costs, whatever it takes.
Speaker 1: Is that a therapist?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so whatever it costs, whatever it takes so that
Speaker 2: we can get you back on track. And it was
Speaker 2: fucking scary, dude. It was nerve wracking. And then also
Speaker 2: there was that feeling is like what the heck is
Speaker 2: wrong with me? So I had that initial GP appointment
Speaker 2: and then it was leading into COVID. It was becoming
Speaker 2: really hard to see someone.
Speaker 1: Do you remember what it was like going to your
Speaker 1: very first therapy session?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, I didn't know what to expect to start
Speaker 2: off with. I was like, I don't know what's going
Speaker 2: to happen, but it was actually real low key and
Speaker 2: was like got an opportunity to sort of just like
Speaker 2: sit with someone who didn't know me but knew the
Speaker 2: questions to ask and had the tools they could provide
Speaker 2: me the tools to try and help. But I remember,
Speaker 2: in the leading up to that first appointment, I was
Speaker 2: still thankful I had that initial consultation with my GP,
Speaker 2: but then I was like in waiting to see someone.
Speaker 2: And I remember we went for this family walk to
Speaker 2: the shopping center at the end of the street was
Speaker 2: and this was like a real like one of those moments,
Speaker 2: It's like I need to really fucking help myself here.
Speaker 2: I remember we went into Kohle's to do some light shopping.
Speaker 2: Oscar's kicked off in the pram. But then as Oscar's
Speaker 2: kicked off in the pram, this young group of kids
Speaker 2: came in. They were like a Japanese soccer team on
Speaker 2: tour and they were just kids. They were like eight
Speaker 2: nine tent but they were crazy. No one was in
Speaker 2: control of these kids, and I was like, I need
Speaker 2: to get a fuck away from these kids because my
Speaker 2: anxiety was through the fucking roof. And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: we'll just go down the other end, no worries. We
Speaker 2: need to get a couple of things went down the
Speaker 2: other end, and I remember I came around the corner
Speaker 2: to go to the deli member and they came around
Speaker 2: the corner as well, and I was like trying to
Speaker 2: get away, and as I went to get away, these
Speaker 2: two girls for charity stopped me to ask me for money,
Speaker 2: and it just like all overwhelming, had a full panic attack. Anyway,
Speaker 2: April ended up finding me hunched over you know, the
Speaker 2: nut mix things, and I was literally heavily breathed. I'd
Speaker 2: like blacked out, like a full panic attack that had
Speaker 2: never happened to me before. And April was like, come on,
Speaker 2: let's get the fuck out of here. And at that moment,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, like what is happening
Speaker 2: to me? Like I was falling to pieces.
Speaker 1: These two girls are like, so you won't donate.
Speaker 2: April was just like whoa, whoa, whoa, Like this is
Speaker 2: And having that conversation with my therapist about that moment,
Speaker 2: she was just like, you've just hit this peak anxiety
Speaker 2: and she's like, to have an anxiety attack in public,
Speaker 2: A lot of people have them, but she was like
Speaker 2: that's like no, no, she said, a lot of people
Speaker 2: have them, but like to call it, recount the whole thing,
Speaker 2: and then you were like blacked out over you know,
Speaker 2: and then sort of came to down a random aisle
Speaker 2: like it's wild. But yeah, it was definitely a big
Speaker 2: shining moment for me that I was like, fuck, something's
Speaker 2: not right. Yeah, and we're you know, that was how
Speaker 2: many years ago? Now what you were in? That was
Speaker 2: like four years ago.
Speaker 1: And at this point you've spoken about the fact that
Speaker 1: you've got this really great mother's group. The dads in
Speaker 1: that group, you guys still hang out now, you guys
Speaker 1: were BALI recently together? Were you still spending time together?
Speaker 1: Or had you guys found that mother's group?
Speaker 2: We had found it, but it was it was very
Speaker 2: early days because we had found it, and then April
Speaker 2: wasn't there for eight weeks. And look, they know, they
Speaker 2: know now what was going on, and only a select
Speaker 2: few people knew now what was going on? I had
Speaker 2: three months off work. I remember what.
Speaker 1: About then your close group of mates.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a couple that knew what was happening?
Speaker 1: Could they in the lead up to that moment? Obviously,
Speaker 1: April she knows that something's not quite right. Whenever your
Speaker 1: mates saying ah, something's a bit off.
Speaker 2: No, I hit it a lot. I think it came
Speaker 2: as a shock. I remember a friend of mine drove
Speaker 2: past me out the front of the therapy place and
Speaker 2: I was coming out it's right, and he rang me
Speaker 2: and he was like, is everything okay? And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: like yeah, just started seeing someone and I was seeing
Speaker 2: someone like once a fortnight, and he was like shit
Speaker 2: like he definitely opened his heart and his arms to
Speaker 2: Me'd be like, if you need anything, let us know.
Speaker 2: And you know, I slowly told more and more people
Speaker 2: that things weren't okay, but I were telling people that
Speaker 2: things were okay, so that they kind of knew that
Speaker 2: it was okay if things were okay with them too.
Speaker 2: I remember I one of my friends at the time
Speaker 2: is still a really good friend, when I told him,
Speaker 2: and then he got really inquisitive about the whole thing,
Speaker 2: and he was like he was going through a bit
Speaker 2: of a breakup at the time. He was just like
Speaker 2: not feeling himself. And I was like, go and do it, mate.
Speaker 2: It's honestly, like so relieving. And I remember I saw
Speaker 2: him a few weeks later he said I did it,
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, how'd you go and he
Speaker 2: was like, well, I booked it and then he said
Speaker 2: I was going after work and he was like, I
Speaker 2: just felt rushed and I felt unprepared. And I was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: he goes. I got there and then hed it just
Speaker 2: all came out of me, and he was like, he goes,
Speaker 2: I felt fucking great.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: He I couldn't believe how much emotion I had, like
Speaker 2: pent up, yeah, and it just stockpiling and like he
Speaker 2: only ever saw the therapist once, and he was like,
Speaker 2: it did wonders because he was like, there's so many
Speaker 2: things that I didn't think I could talk to anyone about,
Speaker 2: but once I've spoken to them about it, felt like
Speaker 2: I can talk to other people about it. And yeah,
Speaker 2: like and a very strong believer that everyone should at
Speaker 2: least go once in their life.
Speaker 1: Do you think if any of your mates had reached out,
Speaker 1: this is before you'd gone to the therapist for the
Speaker 1: first time, and if they had said, Ash, something's not
Speaker 1: quite right. Can we talk about it? Do you think
Speaker 1: looking back, you would have or do you think you
Speaker 1: still would have mastered it.
Speaker 2: I think I would have opened up somewhat, but it
Speaker 2: took me to go to therapy to really understand some
Speaker 2: of my behaviors and some of my thought processes. And
Speaker 2: that's the biggest thing. You really find out a lot
Speaker 2: about yourself. I remember I sitting with my therapists and talking.
Speaker 2: You know, I've got a different therapist now, just because
Speaker 2: I sort of evolved a little bit. But the initial
Speaker 2: therapist that we were talking about some behaviors, and it
Speaker 2: was crazy that some of the behaviors that are common
Speaker 2: in that, you know, the anxiety and depression and unrelenting standards,
Speaker 2: some of the behaviors that I was doing that I
Speaker 2: didn't even recognize, like what, for example, off the top
Speaker 2: of my head, like you know, really incorporating like the
Speaker 2: unrelenting standards thing into you know, who and why. I
Speaker 2: was getting so frustrated, who at and why? And it
Speaker 2: wasn't the situation. It was me that I was getting
Speaker 2: so frustrated with. So like I told this story about
Speaker 2: how I flu oscar up to see my parents at
Speaker 2: their place for the very first time. I was so
Speaker 2: organized to a tea that when something went wrong, I
Speaker 2: was so fucking angry, But I didn't really realize who
Speaker 2: I was angry at. I was angry at me, so
Speaker 2: like for example, I'd organized everything and then we got
Speaker 2: to the airport to get to the rental car and
Speaker 2: realize the rental car place wasn't actually in the airport.
Speaker 2: We had to get a shuttle. Set me off. I
Speaker 2: was like a wrecking ball, mate, And it was like
Speaker 2: just those little behaviors that it's like, hang on a minute,
Speaker 2: like that's not that big of a deal. But it
Speaker 2: was like, you know, recognizing that I wasn't getting angry,
Speaker 2: I was you know, who I was angry at, or
Speaker 2: why I was getting angry, or why I was feeling
Speaker 2: the way I was feeling, or just like the behaviors
Speaker 2: of doing things to escape the reality that you're in
Speaker 2: instead of doing things for the joy of it, or
Speaker 2: doing things for other you know, decent and positive reasons.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like straight away learnt so much about myself.
Speaker 2: I remember I had that's right. I had like a
Speaker 2: meltdown at a bus stop once because I had misplaced
Speaker 2: my wallet, which is not a big fucking deal real
Speaker 2: in the scheme of things, but I was so angry
Speaker 2: with myself. I smashed my phone up, fucking smashed a
Speaker 2: bust shelter up, got on a bus and was like
Speaker 2: just told the driver, and I'm like, I don't have
Speaker 2: I don't have any money, I don't have anything. I'm
Speaker 2: fucking getting on this bas like just like. And then
Speaker 2: I remember getting home and being like wow, like just
Speaker 2: like a fit of my own rate. But I was
Speaker 2: just angry with me and it was so you know,
Speaker 2: and like. And then I was like sort of feeling
Speaker 2: that I didn't want to be around anymore. And I
Speaker 2: was seeing a therapist. It was getting better, things were
Speaker 2: getting better, which was great, but then I always had
Speaker 2: those moments where I was like, I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't want to be around anymore. And it evolved I
Speaker 2: stopped seeing I stopped seeing a therapist after a while.
Speaker 1: And at this point, had you you'd already been diagnosed
Speaker 1: with depression.
Speaker 2: And anxiety and some unrelenting standards.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so were you medicated?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so on top of therapy, I was medicated, which
Speaker 2: I am still still medicated. My dosage isn't quite as
Speaker 2: high as it used to be, but medicated daily, which
Speaker 2: a lot of people are, to sort of keep my
Speaker 2: you know, social anxiety and my depression sort of it
Speaker 2: sort of levels you out, I think, and I really
Speaker 2: felt the difference.
Speaker 1: I'm going to be really naive here. But is it
Speaker 1: a case of once you take that first pill, from
Speaker 1: that moment on you notice a difference.
Speaker 2: Noah, nah, So you've got to like you definitely ease
Speaker 2: into it. I remember I eased into it at a
Speaker 2: certain dosage and it was like is it doing anything?
Speaker 2: Not really, And then they sort of up it. But
Speaker 2: then there's you know, they don't just be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: let's just up it. You know, you've got to have
Speaker 2: the process. Yeah, there's a process. And then coming off
Speaker 2: it as well, there's like, you know, I've tried to
Speaker 2: come off it before. It just didn't work. It's just
Speaker 2: really bad, like anxiety. And after I felt like I
Speaker 2: was getting better and things were getting so much better
Speaker 2: at home, like Oscar was sort of turned a corner
Speaker 2: and was loving and COVID did us a real big
Speaker 2: soul because it gave me the opportunity to be at
Speaker 2: home a lot with him, and I rebuilt that bond,
Speaker 2: which was great, and like I missed that lockdown because
Speaker 2: I got to rebuild that bond with Oscar. Now he's
Speaker 2: talking back to me.
Speaker 1: It's just.
Speaker 2: But no, that's obviously it's got its own challenges when
Speaker 2: he's as he is now, but at that point back then,
Speaker 2: when he you know, he was just like sliding along
Speaker 2: the ground and really really cute and like doing those
Speaker 2: things for the first time.
Speaker 1: Like and they start to I always found that the
Speaker 1: relationship with Lola, it improved drastically when she could just
Speaker 1: give me a little bit back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1: Obviously, I'm not talking about like they kind of at
Speaker 1: this point kind of in talk, but when they smile,
Speaker 1: when they sit, when you walk in the room and
Speaker 1: they recognize your face and give you a smile, or
Speaker 1: they wake up in the morning you go into the
Speaker 1: room and you just get that little reaction. You know.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm quite needy when I say that
Speaker 1: as a parent, but those little things.
Speaker 2: Keep you going.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it keep going, specially even through like you'll
Speaker 2: be having a real shit time with some sleep regression
Speaker 2: or something and then they'll do something really cute and
Speaker 2: you're like, hey, gay kind.
Speaker 1: Of makes that thread.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like during COVID like really helped me build
Speaker 2: that bond back with Oscar. But I was still was
Speaker 2: the adamant that I didn't want any more kids. I
Speaker 2: was like nah.
Speaker 1: We know that running is such a powerful vehicle to
Speaker 1: creating positive impact and at the end of this month
Speaker 1: is more than a run powered by a little Lemon.
Speaker 1: For the third year in a row.
Speaker 2: It's a community run that happens on the twenty fifth
Speaker 2: of November. It's in support of November this year.
Speaker 1: And since they started it was about two years ago,
Speaker 1: they have raised over one point four to eight million dollars,
Speaker 1: which is a huge effort, and they've had over four
Speaker 1: thousand runners across Australia and New Zealand. ASH. No surprise here,
Speaker 1: but we will be taking in the event. There is
Speaker 1: an option in Sydney, there's one in Centennial Park or
Speaker 1: one in Manly. We will do the Manly one. We'll
Speaker 1: do the Manly one closer to you.
Speaker 2: A bit of local knowledge down there. So the options
Speaker 2: Matt are ten, thirty and sixty kilometers. Just stick to
Speaker 2: what we know.
Speaker 1: Let's go very tempting, isn't it It is?
Speaker 2: However, we'll do the ten down in Manly as mentioned.
Speaker 2: But if you want to get involved you can do
Speaker 2: so online, which we will leave in the notes of
Speaker 2: this episode the link sign up for the run this
Speaker 2: year and join me and Matt struggle through even just
Speaker 2: ten you be sick.
Speaker 1: We were running it decked that Lili Lemon and also
Speaker 1: with mustaches on full display. Absolutely once again people being
Speaker 1: confused between who was Matt who was Ash? You will
Speaker 1: run with a hat on shore?
Speaker 2: Well, yes, and we look forward to seeing you guys
Speaker 2: down there or for a really, really, really good course.
Speaker 1: Can I ask this with your medication when your therapist
Speaker 1: said we're going to medicate you.
Speaker 2: X YGP, I really offered it up.
Speaker 1: And what was your jerk reaction to that?
Speaker 2: My knee jerk reaction is I don't want to be
Speaker 2: some medicated freak. And that's just honesty in my head,
Speaker 2: which is so wrong and so incorrect.
Speaker 1: I don't know where that comes from, because I would
Speaker 1: be the same.
Speaker 2: I think it's just stigma. Mate. You're just like you
Speaker 2: don't want to be seen as a fruit loop, Like
Speaker 2: let's be completely honest, Like you want to be seen
Speaker 2: like you've got it together. Yeah, And I was so
Speaker 2: embarrassed that I didn't want people to know that I
Speaker 2: was medicated. But then it sort of got to a
Speaker 2: point in you know, situation where I was like, fuck it,
Speaker 2: what does it matter? No, one, I'll get a lot
Speaker 2: of the same like response. It's like oh really and
Speaker 2: that's about it. Yeah, that was it. But like I
Speaker 2: do recall being off of it and being like, nah,
Speaker 2: I can do this on my eye. It's such a
Speaker 2: fucking man thing to think, no, you can't make you
Speaker 2: can't make it. Give yourself an upper cart, chuck something
Speaker 2: in your mouth and get on with it. But like
Speaker 2: it was kind of like I don't need that. Shit
Speaker 2: sounds like grandfather.
Speaker 1: The GPS must hear that all the time.
Speaker 2: They must be like, yeah, like breaking down that barrier
Speaker 2: must be real. It must be a real, like breath
Speaker 2: of fresh air when someone like me comes in and
Speaker 2: it's just completely honest and like both both the therapists
Speaker 2: that I've had have always said to me, like, you're
Speaker 2: very very very open and honest about your situation, you know,
Speaker 2: and that's helped me a lot.
Speaker 1: So was it the case of from this moment on,
Speaker 1: you're medicated, you're sing a therapist, everything is great, ash
Speaker 1: is fixed.
Speaker 2: You trick yourself a lot. I find that I'm really
Speaker 2: good at noticing when I've tricked myself, which seems to
Speaker 2: be a lot trick myself that I'm okay when I'm not,
Speaker 2: and you know what I mean, Like I think ever
Speaker 2: since seeing a therapist, I was like, okay, well I'm
Speaker 2: getting better, I'm getting better. I must be better. It
Speaker 2: must be better. Now. I did stop seeing a therapist
Speaker 2: for a while there and started to like come off
Speaker 2: my medication and yeah, I don't know, I just felt
Speaker 2: like it creeps back. It creeps back, like the head
Speaker 2: noise creeps back in where I think for me, the
Speaker 2: biggest thing was like my inner fight or flight would
Speaker 2: be flight, Let's get the fuck out of here, which
Speaker 2: sucks because I love my family very much, but it
Speaker 2: was something else telling me that you need to get
Speaker 2: yourself out of this situation, you don't need to be here.
Speaker 2: But always I would be like I could never do that.
Speaker 2: I could never let my family down like that. And
Speaker 2: April was always really good at pointing it out, like mate,
Speaker 2: you know. And there's been times where like I've woken
Speaker 2: April up in the middle of the night where I've
Speaker 2: woken up with anxiety and been like or even situations
Speaker 2: where I've woken up saying that I don't want to
Speaker 2: be here anymore, which is you know, She's been real
Speaker 2: strong about that. And also she's had times where she
Speaker 2: said to me, like, I'm sick of you telling me
Speaker 2: you don't want to be here anymore sometimes and it's
Speaker 2: not me. It's not me, And it is really hard
Speaker 2: to maintain. And that's the thing, like people think the
Speaker 2: hard part is I hate to break it too, people.
Speaker 2: It's the hard part is not going to face your demons.
Speaker 2: It's maintaining them. And some people, some people don't just
Speaker 2: struggle even more with that because the maintenance part is
Speaker 2: so hard. Like I seeing my therapist. I saw my
Speaker 2: therapist the other day and she was like, she just
Speaker 2: straight up to me and said, you've lost focus. She
Speaker 2: could just heelp, you've lost focus. Why you want to
Speaker 2: be better for your family, You've lost focus why you
Speaker 2: want to be better for yourself. You need to find
Speaker 2: the focus again. Otherwise, if it gets too far away,
Speaker 2: you're slip into denial. Then you'll start to deny that
Speaker 2: you've got a problem, which you do that all the
Speaker 2: fucking time anyway, but it becomes more prominent and more
Speaker 2: front focus that you don't have a problem, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you slip into serious depression and
Speaker 2: anxiety and we all know what can happen there where
Speaker 2: people take their own lives, which is absolutely tragic. But
Speaker 2: when you suffer with it, and you you suffer in silence,
Speaker 2: it must be way worse. There's been times where April's
Speaker 2: like I don't know what's going to happen, like I'm
Speaker 2: afraid to leave you alone, or look, it hasn't been
Speaker 2: a lot of times, but it has been times, and
Speaker 2: there's been times where like I reckon I think about
Speaker 2: escape once a day in some capacity, whether it's me
Speaker 2: reflecting on it or reflecting on what I would have done,
Speaker 2: and you know how I would have escaped, or like
Speaker 2: I don't mean like harm myself, I just mean like
Speaker 2: get out, get away.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is that because you think the environment with the
Speaker 1: family and with your kids is such a trigger point
Speaker 1: for Yeah, you having your mental health issues that by
Speaker 1: removing yourself from that it'll make things better. Is that
Speaker 1: why you want to escape? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I kind of thought like if I remove myself, I'd
Speaker 2: be better. Like it's not really the case, is that
Speaker 2: you know you can't. It's such a shit way to
Speaker 2: think about, like you can run away from your problems
Speaker 2: and people do, oh for sure, And look I would
Speaker 2: regret that, and my my therapist and I talk about
Speaker 2: that a lot, talk about that, like, if I'd have
Speaker 2: done that, I would have made it would be the
Speaker 2: worst thing I could have done. I would have been
Speaker 2: separated from my on exile island, from my children, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Which there's challenges now, but like
Speaker 2: they're nowhere near as challenging as it was. I was
Speaker 2: adamant that I didn't want to have a second child,
Speaker 2: but now like I can't imagine my life without a
Speaker 2: second child.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess because having Oscar like that was you know,
Speaker 1: it was a line in the sand where post childbirth,
Speaker 1: that's when these problems started to really rear its head.
Speaker 1: Were you thinking, Gosh, if I have a second child,
Speaker 1: I'm going to.
Speaker 2: Do it again?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah. It was like I hated so much
Speaker 2: of what he did to April, hated it, hated coming
Speaker 2: home to see her, and she was a shell of
Speaker 2: who the person that I used to know. And there
Speaker 2: were times there that I just hated everybody. And then
Speaker 2: when it came around too, like, look, we were in
Speaker 2: a much better place, we had learned so much. We've
Speaker 2: sort of had the conversation a lot of times about
Speaker 2: a second kid, and I think when we decided to
Speaker 2: do it, we were in a much better place. It
Speaker 2: still had its dramas, and then you threw COVID on
Speaker 2: top of that as well, which we had got COVID
Speaker 2: six weeks into having Macie, and it was like the
Speaker 2: fucking worst, you know, because then you're isolated on top
Speaker 2: of that as well. But I think we had the
Speaker 2: tools to manage it better, and you know, we were
Speaker 2: much more able to have the conversations with each other
Speaker 2: that we felt like we weren't allowed to have back then.
Speaker 2: You know, like April'll been able to pull me up
Speaker 2: and say you need to go. You need to even
Speaker 2: just go and do something for yourself right now because
Speaker 2: you're not the best version of you.
Speaker 1: So you talk about maintenance being one of the hardest things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so what are the tools that you have in your
Speaker 1: kind of arsenal that you rely on to make sure
Speaker 1: that maintenance is still a priority.
Speaker 2: Look, I try and make sure that I keep my
Speaker 2: appointments with my therapists regularly, even when I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm okay, even when it's not a trick, you know,
Speaker 2: and it's like I don't know what I'm going to
Speaker 2: talk about. I feel like it's still a must to
Speaker 2: go and I never regret it, never regret going. It's
Speaker 2: not the cheapest exercise, don't get me wrong, but like
Speaker 2: it's worth every cent. That's one big thing where it's
Speaker 2: like always go back. I think, Like for me, I
Speaker 2: don't have like a lot of coping mechanisms that I
Speaker 2: know of. Like, look, I'm quite a heavy drinker. But
Speaker 2: when I first started to become a really heavy drinker,
Speaker 2: it was to escape. But now I don't drink to escape.
Speaker 2: I drink, you know, mainly for the social and the
Speaker 2: fun aspect in that I do find myself sometimes down
Speaker 2: in the dumps about it, but I can recognize it
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. But like in terms of like coping, the
Speaker 2: exercise has been a big one. Look at the moment,
Speaker 2: because I've been crooked. Shit, it sucks, and I do recall,
Speaker 2: like when we're in isolation a lot, running like really
Speaker 2: was amazing for my mental health, That's right. I was
Speaker 2: like I was doing like ten or fifteen k's a
Speaker 2: day every day because it made me feel so good.
Speaker 2: You know. I surf a lot as much as I can,
Speaker 2: and I find like the high after that, you know,
Speaker 2: it gets me through it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I've always said I've never been one to meditate.
Speaker 2: I couldn't do that really either. I tried really hard.
Speaker 1: I tried so hard everybody else who was doing it
Speaker 1: would look at me and go, this is going to
Speaker 1: change your life. Yeah, And I was like, I want
Speaker 1: to tap into that so hard and then.
Speaker 2: It's practice, right, And Abel and I would meditate together
Speaker 2: a bit there to try encourage us to do it.
Speaker 2: I found that what worked better for me was breathing
Speaker 2: exercises like whim Half. And I've gotten slack again because sick, unmotivated.
Speaker 2: It's hard to breathe when you can't breathe through your
Speaker 2: nice But yeah, I found that after a while like
Speaker 2: wim Hof, because I could concentrate on the breath better
Speaker 2: than I could concentrate on the voice, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. I find I would drift off so much,
Speaker 2: but it's practice. And like people who are really good
Speaker 2: at meditation, they'll tell you I've practiced my ass off
Speaker 2: to be here, which is fair. It wasn't something that
Speaker 2: I overly used as a tool. I found the exercise
Speaker 2: and running and that sort of stuff was much better
Speaker 2: used to go to the gym a lot. I also
Speaker 2: found friends were really good. It was really good to
Speaker 2: have like friends that you could talk to about It
Speaker 2: was really really important. And sometimes even helping friends as
Speaker 2: well really help me. And that's what is also really important.
Speaker 2: If someone never discounts someone saying that they're not feeling okay.
Speaker 2: I found that like I could be like, what do
Speaker 2: you mean? Because I would have I might not have
Speaker 2: the answers.
Speaker 1: Would you ask the same questions that the therapist.
Speaker 2: Would No, Nah, because it's really important, and I step
Speaker 2: into my office, it's really important not to provide a solution,
Speaker 2: but just hit listen. Yeah, that was the biggest thing.
Speaker 1: Because I guess one question that I think would be
Speaker 1: really helpful is what advice would you give to somebody
Speaker 1: else if their friend is in a similar situation where
Speaker 1: they're reaching out and they're saying I'm not okay. How
Speaker 1: is it best to manage those conversations? You think, knowing
Speaker 1: what you know now.
Speaker 2: Don't be expected to provide a solution. Like I said,
Speaker 2: just listen sometimes and I've said it to April a
Speaker 2: few times, I said, I don't want you to give
Speaker 2: me a solution. Don't give me a fucking answer. I
Speaker 2: just want you to listen, because as well intentioned as
Speaker 2: the solution might be, it's not what I want from
Speaker 2: you right now. So like if I've had friends that
Speaker 2: have come to me and said I'm not okay, what
Speaker 2: should I do? I always say CGP straight away, see
Speaker 2: a professional is what you should do. But if you
Speaker 2: don't want to do that, you don't want to go
Speaker 2: through that, mate, I'll sit here for an hour while
Speaker 2: you talk, and if you want me to provide any insight,
Speaker 2: I will. But if you don't want me to, there's
Speaker 2: no judgment from me whatsoever. I'll sit here with you
Speaker 2: for as long as it takes. That's really powerful as well.
Speaker 2: But like I always say, go and see GP. They're
Speaker 2: not going to bite your head off. All they're going
Speaker 2: to do is provide some tools. And whether you want
Speaker 2: the I need heap to help because I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm going to off myself or I want to escape
Speaker 2: my reality or whatever it might be. You can go
Speaker 2: as far as that. Or if it's like look, I
Speaker 2: just sometimes I just need someone to talk to. They
Speaker 2: can provide you someone or a helpline or some other tools.
Speaker 2: There's so much stuff out there. Yeah, Like I always
Speaker 2: try and push people to see you gp.
Speaker 1: It's funny. Even I'm really fortunate in that I don't
Speaker 1: suffer from depression, but.
Speaker 2: You know, of.
Speaker 1: We should, hey, but that's what we do.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what's true.
Speaker 1: But there are so many times as a parent, as
Speaker 1: a husband where I am really frustrated. I have really
Speaker 1: bad days, and my biggest coping mechanism is going for
Speaker 1: a run. Laura can see the change in me almost
Speaker 1: instantly as obvious as like, as I'm doing tasks around
Speaker 1: the house, I'm heavy footed, getting a bit eggy. The
Speaker 1: way in which I talk to Lawa and the kids,
Speaker 1: Laura can tell that that's creeping up and straight away
Speaker 1: she's like, get outside, yeah, get a change of scenery.
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's a half an hour run, whatever
Speaker 1: you do, just to like blow those co webs out
Speaker 1: makes such a huge difference, it does.
Speaker 2: And like even if you go for a walk, man,
Speaker 2: Like there's been times where I've gone I don't want
Speaker 2: to go for a run because I don't feel like
Speaker 2: sweet masks off. I'll just go for a walk, man,
Speaker 2: I'll chuck something in like I always as well try
Speaker 2: and listen to people, people who create music, and some
Speaker 2: of thetime you know in their backstory, like someone like
Speaker 2: post Malone or someone like Gang of Views and they've
Speaker 2: got a backstory something like that. I'll always try to
Speaker 2: do to give me some perspective or to make me
Speaker 2: feel like where I'm at that other people are in
Speaker 2: the same situation, and that does help me through, even
Speaker 2: if it's just on a walk or something like that,
Speaker 2: because we all know that can be fucking sometimes, but
Speaker 2: just you know, get out in it. You know, it's
Speaker 2: just one of many ways that you can help yourself.
Speaker 2: Everyone's got their own their own thing that makes them happy,
Speaker 2: right own hobbies. And I've noticed it even going for
Speaker 2: escape now, like just changes just changes how I'm feeling.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's the biggest surprise, is that
Speaker 1: you look at someone at face value. And the last
Speaker 1: thing I ever would have imagined is that you would
Speaker 1: have this story with your mental health challenges. Like I
Speaker 1: would have said that you are someone that would be
Speaker 1: so far from any type of depression social anxiety because
Speaker 1: you are someone who is able to hide that quite well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hide behind a few things. I hide behind
Speaker 2: this mustache a lot. I would refuse to. I find
Speaker 2: it's sort of something that sits in front of my
Speaker 2: face that's sort of a bit like a shield. I
Speaker 2: wear a hat a lot because you know, I'm very
Speaker 2: open about the hat. I feel like it helps me
Speaker 2: with my anxiety. I will try and wear it in
Speaker 2: every situation. But yeah, I do hide behind the humor
Speaker 2: a lot. I like to take the piece out of everything,
Speaker 2: even myself, a lot, because I feel like it helps
Speaker 2: me through.
Speaker 1: Definitely, I think it doesn't matter who the individual is
Speaker 1: and their circumstances. I think mental health is something that
Speaker 1: anyone can.
Speaker 2: Struggle can struggle with it, whether it's mineor or major.
Speaker 2: But I feel like it's really important.
Speaker 1: But also I think it's I think one of the
Speaker 1: greatest things about your story is that it's something that
Speaker 1: you are now in control of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Like I said, the best thing I ever
Speaker 2: did was seek help or find my voice about it,
Speaker 2: because you start to find out so much about yourself.
Speaker 2: And I think, like I said, everyone everyone should go
Speaker 2: and see someone. Whether you don't think you should or not,
Speaker 2: or whether you think you're completely fine or not, there's
Speaker 2: no harm in trying to find a bit more about yourself.
Speaker 2: Because it could help you down the track.
Speaker 1: Definitely, Ash, I want to say thank you for being
Speaker 1: really vulnerable. I know it sounds like a weird thing
Speaker 1: to say at the end of this, but I can
Speaker 1: only appreciate how hard it would be as a topic
Speaker 1: to unpack, especially because it's so far from what we
Speaker 1: normally talk about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look for me, I'm happy to do it, and
Speaker 2: I'm always been very transparent. And if you know one
Speaker 2: person listening to this can find some relatability, or find
Speaker 2: some comfort or find encouraged voice, then I'm happy with that.
Speaker 1: And look, if you're listening in any of the topics,
Speaker 1: have struck a call with you and you think I
Speaker 1: do want to reach out. Obviously, as Ash said, there
Speaker 1: is the GP, but some other really amazing organizations out
Speaker 1: there are Lifeline, there is suicide Callback service and also
Speaker 1: Beyond Blue support service as well. The contact details for
Speaker 1: each of those will put into the show notes, but
Speaker 1: also there's a great page on the November website which
Speaker 1: lists out all these organizations and the contact details. So
Speaker 1: please don't be shy to reach out. And I will
Speaker 1: say as well that if there is anyone who you
Speaker 1: think has immediate danger with their own life obviously called
Speaker 1: Triple zero. Sure but ash, thanks again.
Speaker 2: Thank you, and look, if you don't want to get
Speaker 2: in touch with any of them, just get in touch
Speaker 2: with me if you want. I'm happy to sit and listen,
Speaker 2: so dm us if you like.
Speaker 1: Before we go, we do just want to give one
Speaker 1: last thanks to today's sponsor, Lululemon. They are global technical,
Speaker 1: athletic atpower brands. They are forty four stores across Australia
Speaker 1: and New Zealand, creating transformational products and experiences for both men.
Speaker 2: And women, and they focus on building meaningful connections, unlocking
Speaker 2: greater possibilities and well being for all. For more information,
Speaker 2: visit lululemon dot com or heading to one of these stores.
Speaker 1: Thanks Lululemon. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians
Speaker 1: of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, see
Speaker 1: and community.
Speaker 2: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
Speaker 2: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander
Speaker 2: peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadagal Land