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Speaker 1: Welcome back to two Dotting Dads. I'm Mattie Jay and

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Speaker 1: I'm As. This is a podcast that is all about parenting.

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Speaker 2: It's the good, the bad, and the relatable.

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Speaker 1: And as we always say, if you've come here hoping

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Speaker 1: to find any kind of advice, unfortunately.

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Speaker 2: None not from maybe today.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean we have to say it, but deep

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Speaker 1: down we.

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Speaker 2: Know that we can't use another lawsuit.

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Speaker 1: Hey, this is a bonus episode. It is yes, which

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Speaker 1: is very exciting. We do want to say a big

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Speaker 1: shout out to Lulu Lemon, yep, friend of the show.

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Speaker 2: And this month is also November, Matthew.

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Speaker 1: One of my favorite months of the year, Ash absolutely

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Speaker 1: where it's shedding a light on mental health, both mental

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Speaker 1: and physical, and we are all for that. And if

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Speaker 1: you did want to gear up for November, there has

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Speaker 1: never been a bit of collaboration between lou Lemon and

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Speaker 1: the charity. You can buy November specific appara, both men's

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Speaker 1: and women's, and five dollars from every sale will be donated.

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Speaker 1: You can look at our socials. Ash and I both

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Speaker 1: wearing the November from Them Lululemon T shirts.

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Speaker 2: Of course they're very comfortable.

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Speaker 1: Although I have to say people may be confused not

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Speaker 1: being able to identify who was Ash who was Matt

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Speaker 1: because we both have mustaches. Yes, I may say this

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Speaker 1: might come across as arrogant. They're on parte. Ash is

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Speaker 1: wearing the hat. I am wearing no hat.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I am wearing the hat.

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Speaker 1: So normally this podcast is all about us just being

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Speaker 1: idiots and parents. That's it, and we only ever wanted

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Speaker 1: to just be a bit of comedic relief. But this

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Speaker 1: episode is going to be a little bit different. Off

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Speaker 1: the back of November where we are hearing men's Health,

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Speaker 1: we thought it was a great opportunity where we can

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Speaker 1: talk about a mental health health journeys. Yes, and I

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Speaker 1: think one of the biggest surprises with you Ash, and

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Speaker 1: we've only known each other. It's not being that long

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Speaker 1: year November, not even twelve months, I would say twelve months,

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Speaker 1: but round up hanging out with you, you seem like

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Speaker 1: someone who.

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Speaker 2: Is extrata together. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, But when I first found out that mental health

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Speaker 1: was something that you struggled with, I was quite surprised.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, and so thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm keen to know when did you first realize that

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Speaker 1: your own mental health was something that you needed help with.

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Speaker 2: Uh for me, Like before having kids, I always joke

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Speaker 2: about and that's the thing as well. I hide a

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Speaker 2: lot behind humor and one line stupid jokes that I

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Speaker 2: whip out because.

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Speaker 1: You've always I'm assuming you've always been the funny guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think like my dad's very similar to me

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Speaker 2: as well. Like real, I don't know, I just had

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Speaker 2: to be the funny guy, class clown sort of thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I definitely have had to always been like that, and

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Speaker 2: I always joke about that. I don't remember what I

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Speaker 2: was like before having kids, because I legitimately don't really remember,

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Speaker 2: just because I mean, they just take up so much

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Speaker 2: of your life. So like before I kind of just

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Speaker 2: thought I was a normal guy. Like I never really

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Speaker 2: thought anything of the head noise that I would have

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Speaker 2: had or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: Were there any moments, this is before kids, where you thought,

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Speaker 1: hang on a second, you know, this doesn't feel quite right. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When I was a teenager, there was a couple of

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Speaker 2: instances where I did think that, Like I know, I

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Speaker 2: just you know, might have felt a little bit sad

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Speaker 2: and didn't know why. And then I just sort of

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Speaker 2: put it down to nothing really, And I mean as teenager,

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Speaker 2: you sort of get on with it.

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Speaker 1: You're still kind of regulating your emotions. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and it wasn't I mean, the mental health conversation

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Speaker 2: wasn't so prominent. Now it's so it's really prominent, which

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Speaker 2: is great, so much better because yeah, like I think

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Speaker 2: maybe then maybe I would have I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 2: I would have thought something's not right if I don't know,

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Speaker 2: and it was such a thing, But I didn't really

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Speaker 2: know it was such a thing till after.

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Speaker 1: Having Yeah, I don't think going through high.

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Speaker 2: School the last thing I'm thinking about totally. I don't

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Speaker 2: think it about chicks.

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Speaker 1: I don't think I could say there was anyone that

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Speaker 1: I knew who had depression. It wasn't really a word that.

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Speaker 2: Was that you really knew that you would have known.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's part of the problem, right, it's the stigma.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, before kids, I just thought I was a

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Speaker 2: normal guy and just going along my normal life. I think,

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Speaker 2: like as maybe closer to when I was getting married,

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Speaker 2: I had a few moments where I was like maybe

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Speaker 2: a little bit maybe a little bit, yeah, a little

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Speaker 2: bit sad boy, But I just again, I just thought

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Speaker 2: that was who I.

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Speaker 1: Was when you found yourself in those moments where you

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Speaker 1: were sad or upset. Was it off the back of

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Speaker 1: anything that had happened. Was there a trigger for that

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Speaker 1: or was it just waking up one day and feeling

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Speaker 1: not that I can recall.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I felt like sometimes if I was missing out

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Speaker 2: on something, then maybe I was a little bit more

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Speaker 2: down in the dumps. But I just thought it was

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Speaker 2: normal thought that I never thought really anything of it.

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Speaker 1: So then when you had Oscar and the situation you

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Speaker 1: found yourself in that moment with your mental health, was

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Speaker 1: that more severe than what you'd experienced previously.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so like really started when having Oscar is such

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Speaker 2: like a big change in your life. Right for everyone,

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Speaker 2: it's obviously good. You know, you've made the decision to

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Speaker 2: have a child, and well, I'm very excited as you do.

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Speaker 2: But like, it's such a big impact on your life.

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Speaker 2: And I always say to people that are expecting their

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Speaker 2: first kid, like, you can never be prepared. No matter

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Speaker 2: how prepared you think you are, you're not. You just

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Speaker 2: don't know what you're going to get totally. There's so

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Speaker 2: many different variables, but.

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Speaker 1: Every kid is is wildly different. I look at Marley,

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Speaker 1: I look at Lola and they had just worlds apart.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and like the first you know, the first

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Speaker 2: six twelve months was completely different too. So I think

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Speaker 2: like when we had Oscar, even from the delivery suite

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Speaker 2: where things didn't really go to plan. It was sort

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Speaker 2: of he was such a grumpy, grouchy baby.

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Speaker 1: If anyone who doesn't know, we've spoken about before, but

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Speaker 1: it was a sea section.

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Speaker 2: It was ended up being an emergency sea section after

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Speaker 2: like twenty four hours of labor. I think, like now

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Speaker 2: I look back where actually some of the mental stuff

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Speaker 2: sort to shine through was even in the even in

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Speaker 2: the recovery suites when we're you know, a couple of

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Speaker 2: days in the hospital and me trying to change oscars,

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Speaker 2: n happy and not being happy with my performance. Like

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Speaker 2: I was like, holy shit, Like that's where like the

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Speaker 2: underlending standards, Like I expected myself to be able to

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Speaker 2: calm that baby and be able to you know, change

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Speaker 2: that baby like immediately, even though I was like, hand,

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Speaker 2: that's like my first fucking day on the job, but

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Speaker 2: I didn't think anything of it. Then I just would

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Speaker 2: get frustrated, so frustrated like immediately, and then yeah, we

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Speaker 2: sort of you know, we packed up, went home, did

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Speaker 2: that forty k and hour home because you're like just

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Speaker 2: thing in the back of the car as every dad

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Speaker 2: would do, where you just like so fragile, am I

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Speaker 2: strapped in the car correctly, all that sort of stuff.

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Speaker 2: And then we got home, and yeah, he was quite

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Speaker 2: a cranky baby. He was really uncomfortable. We sort of

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Speaker 2: a little bit later found out that he had silent

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Speaker 2: reflux and he had dairy intolerance.

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Speaker 1: Which is so tough.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so and for anyone who don't really know, he

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Speaker 2: would be like asleep for forty minutes the first sleep window,

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Speaker 2: and then obviously he would be burning in his esophacus,

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Speaker 2: and like we didn't know any of that, and like

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Speaker 2: you know, like.

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Speaker 1: Like I said, isn't he loving me? Why doesn't he

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Speaker 1: love me?

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Speaker 2: But like he wouldn't sleep, And then it was caused

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Speaker 2: me and April blaming each other for why he can't

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Speaker 2: sleep and all that sort of shit, and like, you know,

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Speaker 2: as two people in the household, three people in the

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Speaker 2: household now just tied all the time, it was really

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Speaker 2: taking a toll on April, who's got a feed We're

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Speaker 2: not knowing what's wrong. And then I go back to work,

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Speaker 2: and I think, did you have off? Initially I had

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Speaker 2: two weeks off.

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Speaker 1: Oh that was it?

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Speaker 2: That was it? Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, And then I was.

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Speaker 1: Did you have matt leeb for yourself?

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Speaker 2: Is that no I had? I can't quite recall.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's quick.

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Speaker 2: It was only two weeks. And then I went back

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Speaker 2: to work for two weeks. And during those two weeks

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Speaker 2: it was really really tough coming home to see my

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Speaker 2: shell of a wife that I had, because this kid

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Speaker 2: had absolutely taken it all day and it was like

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Speaker 2: really taking its toll. On April, and after two weeks,

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Speaker 2: I've said to my work, I'm going to have to

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Speaker 2: take more time off to try and help support. And

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Speaker 2: again we still didn't know that Oscar had silent reflux

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Speaker 2: and a dairy intolerance.

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Speaker 1: You have little brief moments, because Lola was similar where

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Speaker 1: she was just didn't sleep, didn't eat, and you have

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Speaker 1: little moments where you're like, oh, this is nice, she

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Speaker 1: just gave me a smile, and this is yeah, I

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Speaker 1: guess that little like spark that I was looking for

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Speaker 1: when I was thinking about becoming a new parent. But

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Speaker 1: then bulk of it is just screams, screams.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I recall taking a photo of me and Oscar

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Speaker 2: when he was so young, and I think a captions

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Speaker 2: are in between screams, and people were like, holy shit,

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Speaker 2: that hit me hard because they're like, that's so true.

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Speaker 2: Those moments in between you got to try and find

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Speaker 2: but we weren't finding any, and like it was so

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Speaker 2: early days that like, yeah, I've said and thankfully the

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Speaker 2: job I had at the time, they were like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: take as much time as you need, which is really great.

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Speaker 2: They sort of understood that was.

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Speaker 1: It a case. And I guess there is this expectation

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Speaker 1: of like, all throughout pregnancy, everyone's just like, this is

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Speaker 1: going to be the most amazing moment of your life

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Speaker 1: and build it up year totally. Like the bar is

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Speaker 1: of expectation is so incredibly high, and then when it

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Speaker 1: doesn't match that, all of a sudden, you're like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm failing as a family.

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Speaker 2: That's kind of what I felt like, Yeah, And it

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Speaker 2: also felt like people were always like asking me, oh,

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Speaker 2: how's the sleep. Just shut the fuck up and stop

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Speaker 2: asking me that fucking question because it's obviously not good.

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Speaker 2: Look eggs on my eyes. I'm off work again. Oscar

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Speaker 2: was just absolutely draining us to the point where like

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Speaker 2: I resented him, which sucks for him. And that's as

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Speaker 2: hard as it is for people to hear that I

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Speaker 2: fucking hated him. Look, we build a bridge, thankfully, but.

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Speaker 1: Like I guess it's like for anyone listening, he maybe

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Speaker 1: doesn't have kids. It is a really interesting situation to

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Speaker 1: be in where like, at its core, obviously love your child.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you know, it's almost like I love that will

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Speaker 1: never be broken. But at the same time, it's this

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Speaker 1: juxtaposition where this child that you love like unconditionally is

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Speaker 1: also the cause of so many problems, so many problems,

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Speaker 1: and it's really really strange, and nothing eats you up

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Speaker 1: more than those moments of frustration that are directed towards

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Speaker 1: your baby.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, because then you feel guilty about it afterwards

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Speaker 2: because it's like, I don't know anyway. So, like it

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Speaker 2: was just getting really, really really bad, to the point

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Speaker 2: where it was really affecting April's mental health. She was,

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Speaker 2: you know, leaving the house and not coming back, and

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Speaker 2: we were having to seek help because she was depressed,

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Speaker 2: she hated everything. She was obviously suffering from depression. So

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Speaker 2: my first initial thought there is to make sure she

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Speaker 2: has help and we did that. We did what we

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Speaker 2: needed to do, went saw the GP, and the GP

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Speaker 2: said it was really really bad and recommending us this

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Speaker 2: place called Sin John of God, which was out at Burwood,

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Speaker 2: which April's in denial about that doesn't want to do it.

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Speaker 2: They have a really great mother and child program out there.

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Speaker 2: And it was like, do we need to do that?

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Speaker 2: Is it that bad? And we tried to help ourselves

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Speaker 2: before we had to get to that point. I remember

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Speaker 2: there was this one day Abe went for a physio appointment,

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Speaker 2: like a postpart of physio appointment, and she just didn't

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Speaker 2: come back, and I was like, what the Fuck's going

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Speaker 2: on here? She didn't come back, and then eventually she

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Speaker 2: did and she said I just drove around the block,

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Speaker 2: not wanting to come in because I just hated the situation. Wow,

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Speaker 2: which was real tough, And at that point, I've made

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Speaker 2: the call that we've got to go.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: When we rang and said you know we're coming in,

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Speaker 2: they said, okay, cool, no worries. We went in and

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Speaker 2: we checked in like two days later to this mental hospital.

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Speaker 2: They were really great and it was a beautiful facility

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Speaker 2: and stuff, but essentially I had to drop my wife

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Speaker 2: and kid off there left him for eight weeks, which

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Speaker 2: I was allowed to visit. I was allowed to stay.

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Speaker 2: They were really good. It was really tough. Like I said, like,

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Speaker 2: they had great facilities, and I've got this really good

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Speaker 2: mother and child program which the child goes in with

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Speaker 2: you when you first get there, they obviously know that

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Speaker 2: you're fucking exhausted. Essentially, the baby sleeps in the nursery.

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Speaker 2: I can't remember how old he was at this point,

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Speaker 2: like five or six weeks. He might have been a

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Speaker 2: little bit older. But they do all this group stuff

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Speaker 2: and they see psychologists and try and they give them

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Speaker 2: the tools to really work with it, which is really

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Speaker 2: really great. And got to see that.

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Speaker 1: So at this point, how was your mental health? Because

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Speaker 1: April had been diagnosed and she was seeking help.

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Speaker 2: At this point, I had to completely put myself to

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Speaker 2: the side. I was like, it is not about me,

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Speaker 2: it's about them. It was great for me to get

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Speaker 2: some rest as well, to sort of start to see

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Speaker 2: things in a bit more light. But yeah, I was

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Speaker 2: going back and forth for that whole time. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: was sort of got closer to the end of that time,

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Speaker 2: and I remember I had a conversation with my sister,

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Speaker 2: and she was like, oh, it's all you know, great

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Speaker 2: that she's getting better. She was just like, what about you?

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Speaker 2: And I was like, I'd never really and like we

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Speaker 2: spoke about the other day, I was like, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's kind of like when you're in an aeroplane and

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Speaker 2: the oxygen mask dropped down, you got to put yourself

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Speaker 2: on before you start to help others. And she was like,

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Speaker 2: do you not ever think about that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And I was kind of like shit, and it sort

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Speaker 2: of planted a seed for me. I remember there was

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Speaker 2: like a couple of weeks to go, and they were like, look,

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Speaker 2: we're going to allow April to have like a home visit.

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Speaker 2: Can't come home for the night. I was going to

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Speaker 2: come home too, just for the night and see how

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Speaker 2: it goes. It went pretty well, Like it was a

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Speaker 2: little bit rocky because obviously know when it's like even now,

295
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Speaker 2: when your kids sleep in a different environment, it's it's

296
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Speaker 2: never great, so you know, but it was really good

297
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Speaker 2: to have them home and eventually they discharged her and

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Speaker 2: came home and we were in a much better play.

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Speaker 2: Best thing we ever did, like now I look back,

300
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Speaker 2: the best thing we ever did was take up on

301
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Speaker 2: that program and thankfully we were covered under insurances and

302
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Speaker 2: stuff like that, which I know that some people don't

303
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Speaker 2: have that don't have that same thing, and look, there

304
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Speaker 2: should be more of it and more accessible for families.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, like they came home and you know, we

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Speaker 2: sort of were better equipped and had more knowledge, and

307
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Speaker 2: like it wasn't perfect. We were still going through the

308
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Speaker 2: Now April, we have to look at Okay, she can't

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Speaker 2: eat dairy, Oh yeah.

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Speaker 1: Of course because then the milk that she's producing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so then we had to manage the silent

312
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Speaker 2: reflux and stuff. So there were still its challenges, but

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Speaker 2: it was you know, chalk and cheese so much better

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Speaker 2: because we're you know, well and more equipped, but.

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Speaker 1: We're aware of yeah issues, and April.

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Speaker 2: Was on the man really well, like she was, you know,

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Speaker 2: starting to be more positive and starting to find She

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Speaker 2: definitely said that she started to love him much more

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Speaker 2: and have those moments and I wasn't having them yet,

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Speaker 2: which you know, I accepted because they you know, they

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Speaker 2: were living together in a facility.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard, even though deep down you love

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Speaker 1: your child to express that love when you're completely overrun

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Speaker 1: with that frustration, the relationship with Marley, it was very instant.

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Speaker 1: She was a dream child. Yeah, she slept anywhere, she ate,

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Speaker 1: she fed beautifully. Yeah, fucking life was easy. And then

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Speaker 1: with Lola, that affection was kind of like masked.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was masked by the frustration of why aren't

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Speaker 2: you like that one?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, Like I was happy that everyone was home

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Speaker 2: and happy that you know, we're on the end, and

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Speaker 2: I think, like it wasn't obvious to me, but it

334
00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,760
Speaker 2: was obvious to April that I was getting worse. She

335
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Speaker 2: just said to me that you're different, said something about

336
00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:04,880
Speaker 2: you is different. She said, you're frustrated, You're angry. I

337
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,280
Speaker 2: can see it. I can see it in your eyes

338
00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,560
Speaker 2: that you're just not something's not rare and for me,

339
00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,000
Speaker 2: and like, deep down for me, I was essentially without

340
00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:18,520
Speaker 2: me knowing, planning my escape from the situation. Still even

341
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Speaker 2: what do you mean by that? I just didn't want

342
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Speaker 2: to be there anymore. I just there was conversations that

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00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:26,080
Speaker 2: I had had with April saying that I don't love

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Speaker 2: this kid, and it was like, that's to say it now.

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Speaker 2: It is heartbreaking, but it was like that was the

346
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:36,240
Speaker 2: situation that I didn't want to be there anymore. Didn't

347
00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 2: mean self harm. It just means I just wanted to

348
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,840
Speaker 2: move on from this. And when they were in a position,

349
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:44,720
Speaker 2: my honest thoughts at the time were, once they're in

350
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Speaker 2: a position where they're comfortable, I'm going to leave, which

351
00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:52,600
Speaker 2: now it fucking breaks my heart to say that, but

352
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Speaker 2: that was the god honest truth. And I remember April

353
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Speaker 2: saying to me, you know we're getting better, you're getting worse.

354
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Speaker 2: And she kept saying that to me, she said, you

355
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 2: need to sort this out.

356
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Speaker 1: At that point, did you agree with her? Were you

357
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Speaker 1: thinking maybe I could have something wrong with my mental health?

358
00:17:08,119 --> 00:17:11,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, when she was blunt to me and said that,

359
00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:12,800
Speaker 2: you know, we need to have a look at this.

360
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Speaker 2: Because you helped us, we need to help you. And like,

361
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:19,760
Speaker 2: thankfully we had built like a bit of a rapport

362
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,879
Speaker 2: with our GP over all of everything that happened with April.

363
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:26,040
Speaker 2: And as soon as I booked that appointment and sat

364
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 2: in her office, she knew straight away and I was

365
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:32,960
Speaker 2: just a fucking mess, and she was just like, holy shito.

366
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 2: She was just like, you guys have forgotten. You guys

367
00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:39,960
Speaker 2: get forgotten so much because it is all about mum

368
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,320
Speaker 2: and the baby, as it should be because she's providing life,

369
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,680
Speaker 2: she's nurturing, she's you know, feeding. She's like I always

370
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 2: say that that first big moment, you know distances there

371
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:53,679
Speaker 2: are newborn is that you could be any old blob,

372
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Speaker 2: but you won't be mum, you know what I mean.

373
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Speaker 1: But it's also a teamwork between mom and dad, and

374
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,480
Speaker 1: obviously there is a big difference between she's.

375
00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:07,000
Speaker 2: The team captain totally. But yeah, I remember when I, like,

376
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,439
Speaker 2: I said, I saw the GP and she was just like,

377
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 2: you know, we did all the testing to like how

378
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,639
Speaker 2: I'm actually feeling, and she was like, we need to

379
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:15,520
Speaker 2: sort this out.

380
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,240
Speaker 1: So what's the steps from that moment?

381
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,320
Speaker 2: For the steps from that moment is you come up

382
00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:22,240
Speaker 2: with a mental health plan with your GP, which is

383
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,560
Speaker 2: really important, just to sit down and talk about, you know,

384
00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:29,000
Speaker 2: what the plan is, what resources are available, and how

385
00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,360
Speaker 2: you want to tackle it, and what you're comfortable with

386
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:36,040
Speaker 2: as well, which you know, she was saying to me,

387
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,480
Speaker 2: I get a lot more women than men, and she

388
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,679
Speaker 2: was very honest about that, and she was like, but

389
00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:43,200
Speaker 2: she she said, I would love to see more men

390
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 2: because so many couple sit in here and I can

391
00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:48,159
Speaker 2: see it that maybe I don't know. Something is not

392
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:51,040
Speaker 2: right and she was like, you're at a point where

393
00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 2: you've made the decision to be here, which is the

394
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,760
Speaker 2: best decision you've made? And it was. And we went

395
00:18:56,760 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 2: from there in terms of referrals to who would benefit

396
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,280
Speaker 2: me the most in the area? Is there some resources online?

397
00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 2: How far did I was? I willing to go to

398
00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 2: make myself feel better? Made it really easy, So you know,

399
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:15,520
Speaker 2: I made the decision at that point to see someone professionally,

400
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,960
Speaker 2: and April was like, whatever it costs, whatever it takes.

401
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 1: Is that a therapist?

402
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, so whatever it costs, whatever it takes so that

403
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,600
Speaker 2: we can get you back on track. And it was

404
00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:30,320
Speaker 2: fucking scary, dude. It was nerve wracking. And then also

405
00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 2: there was that feeling is like what the heck is

406
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 2: wrong with me? So I had that initial GP appointment

407
00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:39,240
Speaker 2: and then it was leading into COVID. It was becoming

408
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:40,560
Speaker 2: really hard to see someone.

409
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 1: Do you remember what it was like going to your

410
00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: very first therapy session?

411
00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah? Look, I didn't know what to expect to start

412
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 2: off with. I was like, I don't know what's going

413
00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,000
Speaker 2: to happen, but it was actually real low key and

414
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,439
Speaker 2: was like got an opportunity to sort of just like

415
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,720
Speaker 2: sit with someone who didn't know me but knew the

416
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 2: questions to ask and had the tools they could provide

417
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 2: me the tools to try and help. But I remember,

418
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 2: in the leading up to that first appointment, I was

419
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:12,280
Speaker 2: still thankful I had that initial consultation with my GP,

420
00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 2: but then I was like in waiting to see someone.

421
00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:17,639
Speaker 2: And I remember we went for this family walk to

422
00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:19,399
Speaker 2: the shopping center at the end of the street was

423
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 2: and this was like a real like one of those moments,

424
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,640
Speaker 2: It's like I need to really fucking help myself here.

425
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,720
Speaker 2: I remember we went into Kohle's to do some light shopping.

426
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 2: Oscar's kicked off in the pram. But then as Oscar's

427
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,240
Speaker 2: kicked off in the pram, this young group of kids

428
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,439
Speaker 2: came in. They were like a Japanese soccer team on

429
00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,320
Speaker 2: tour and they were just kids. They were like eight

430
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,239
Speaker 2: nine tent but they were crazy. No one was in

431
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:47,239
Speaker 2: control of these kids, and I was like, I need

432
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 2: to get a fuck away from these kids because my

433
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:52,600
Speaker 2: anxiety was through the fucking roof. And I was like, oh,

434
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: we'll just go down the other end, no worries. We

435
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 2: need to get a couple of things went down the

436
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,359
Speaker 2: other end, and I remember I came around the corner

437
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 2: to go to the deli member and they came around

438
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,960
Speaker 2: the corner as well, and I was like trying to

439
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:06,800
Speaker 2: get away, and as I went to get away, these

440
00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,119
Speaker 2: two girls for charity stopped me to ask me for money,

441
00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:16,199
Speaker 2: and it just like all overwhelming, had a full panic attack. Anyway,

442
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 2: April ended up finding me hunched over you know, the

443
00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:21,880
Speaker 2: nut mix things, and I was literally heavily breathed. I'd

444
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 2: like blacked out, like a full panic attack that had

445
00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,440
Speaker 2: never happened to me before. And April was like, come on,

446
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,080
Speaker 2: let's get the fuck out of here. And at that moment,

447
00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, like what is happening

448
00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 2: to me? Like I was falling to pieces.

449
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 1: These two girls are like, so you won't donate.

450
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,119
Speaker 2: April was just like whoa, whoa, whoa, Like this is

451
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,200
Speaker 2: And having that conversation with my therapist about that moment,

452
00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,960
Speaker 2: she was just like, you've just hit this peak anxiety

453
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,000
Speaker 2: and she's like, to have an anxiety attack in public,

454
00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:55,320
Speaker 2: A lot of people have them, but she was like

455
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,639
Speaker 2: that's like no, no, she said, a lot of people

456
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 2: have them, but like to call it, recount the whole thing,

457
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 2: and then you were like blacked out over you know,

458
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 2: and then sort of came to down a random aisle

459
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,840
Speaker 2: like it's wild. But yeah, it was definitely a big

460
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 2: shining moment for me that I was like, fuck, something's

461
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 2: not right. Yeah, and we're you know, that was how

462
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 2: many years ago? Now what you were in? That was

463
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:20,320
Speaker 2: like four years ago.

464
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 1: And at this point you've spoken about the fact that

465
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: you've got this really great mother's group. The dads in

466
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:28,680
Speaker 1: that group, you guys still hang out now, you guys

467
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,679
Speaker 1: were BALI recently together? Were you still spending time together?

468
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 1: Or had you guys found that mother's group?

469
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 2: We had found it, but it was it was very

470
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: early days because we had found it, and then April

471
00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 2: wasn't there for eight weeks. And look, they know, they

472
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:46,480
Speaker 2: know now what was going on, and only a select

473
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 2: few people knew now what was going on? I had

474
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,640
Speaker 2: three months off work. I remember what.

475
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,159
Speaker 1: About then your close group of mates.

476
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was a couple that knew what was happening?

477
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,879
Speaker 1: Could they in the lead up to that moment? Obviously,

478
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,199
Speaker 1: April she knows that something's not quite right. Whenever your

479
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: mates saying ah, something's a bit off.

480
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 2: No, I hit it a lot. I think it came

481
00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: as a shock. I remember a friend of mine drove

482
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 2: past me out the front of the therapy place and

483
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,119
Speaker 2: I was coming out it's right, and he rang me

484
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,880
Speaker 2: and he was like, is everything okay? And I was like, oh,

485
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,480
Speaker 2: like yeah, just started seeing someone and I was seeing

486
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 2: someone like once a fortnight, and he was like shit

487
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,000
Speaker 2: like he definitely opened his heart and his arms to

488
00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:32,800
Speaker 2: Me'd be like, if you need anything, let us know.

489
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 2: And you know, I slowly told more and more people

490
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,639
Speaker 2: that things weren't okay, but I were telling people that

491
00:23:38,680 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: things were okay, so that they kind of knew that

492
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 2: it was okay if things were okay with them too.

493
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: I remember I one of my friends at the time

494
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:47,959
Speaker 2: is still a really good friend, when I told him,

495
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 2: and then he got really inquisitive about the whole thing,

496
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:52,560
Speaker 2: and he was like he was going through a bit

497
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 2: of a breakup at the time. He was just like

498
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 2: not feeling himself. And I was like, go and do it, mate.

499
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:02,280
Speaker 2: It's honestly, like so relieving. And I remember I saw

500
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:03,880
Speaker 2: him a few weeks later he said I did it,

501
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: and I was like, oh, how'd you go and he

502
00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 2: was like, well, I booked it and then he said

503
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 2: I was going after work and he was like, I

504
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 2: just felt rushed and I felt unprepared. And I was like, oh, yeah,

505
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:15,080
Speaker 2: he goes. I got there and then hed it just

506
00:24:15,119 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 2: all came out of me, and he was like, he goes,

507
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 2: I felt fucking great.

508
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: Wow.

509
00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: He I couldn't believe how much emotion I had, like

510
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 2: pent up, yeah, and it just stockpiling and like he

511
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 2: only ever saw the therapist once, and he was like,

512
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 2: it did wonders because he was like, there's so many

513
00:24:34,040 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: things that I didn't think I could talk to anyone about,

514
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: but once I've spoken to them about it, felt like

515
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 2: I can talk to other people about it. And yeah,

516
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,040
Speaker 2: like and a very strong believer that everyone should at

517
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 2: least go once in their life.

518
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: Do you think if any of your mates had reached out,

519
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: this is before you'd gone to the therapist for the

520
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: first time, and if they had said, Ash, something's not

521
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,600
Speaker 1: quite right. Can we talk about it? Do you think

522
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: looking back, you would have or do you think you

523
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: still would have mastered it.

524
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 2: I think I would have opened up somewhat, but it

525
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 2: took me to go to therapy to really understand some

526
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 2: of my behaviors and some of my thought processes. And

527
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:14,399
Speaker 2: that's the biggest thing. You really find out a lot

528
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 2: about yourself. I remember I sitting with my therapists and talking.

529
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 2: You know, I've got a different therapist now, just because

530
00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 2: I sort of evolved a little bit. But the initial

531
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,439
Speaker 2: therapist that we were talking about some behaviors, and it

532
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: was crazy that some of the behaviors that are common

533
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 2: in that, you know, the anxiety and depression and unrelenting standards,

534
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 2: some of the behaviors that I was doing that I

535
00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 2: didn't even recognize, like what, for example, off the top

536
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 2: of my head, like you know, really incorporating like the

537
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,199
Speaker 2: unrelenting standards thing into you know, who and why. I

538
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 2: was getting so frustrated, who at and why? And it

539
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,600
Speaker 2: wasn't the situation. It was me that I was getting

540
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,800
Speaker 2: so frustrated with. So like I told this story about

541
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,560
Speaker 2: how I flu oscar up to see my parents at

542
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,640
Speaker 2: their place for the very first time. I was so

543
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 2: organized to a tea that when something went wrong, I

544
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:12,160
Speaker 2: was so fucking angry, But I didn't really realize who

545
00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 2: I was angry at. I was angry at me, so

546
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 2: like for example, I'd organized everything and then we got

547
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: to the airport to get to the rental car and

548
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 2: realize the rental car place wasn't actually in the airport.

549
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 2: We had to get a shuttle. Set me off. I

550
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 2: was like a wrecking ball, mate, And it was like

551
00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:30,880
Speaker 2: just those little behaviors that it's like, hang on a minute,

552
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: like that's not that big of a deal. But it

553
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 2: was like, you know, recognizing that I wasn't getting angry,

554
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 2: I was you know, who I was angry at, or

555
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,800
Speaker 2: why I was getting angry, or why I was feeling

556
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 2: the way I was feeling, or just like the behaviors

557
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 2: of doing things to escape the reality that you're in

558
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 2: instead of doing things for the joy of it, or

559
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:55,160
Speaker 2: doing things for other you know, decent and positive reasons.

560
00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: But yeah, like straight away learnt so much about myself.

561
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,959
Speaker 2: I remember I had that's right. I had like a

562
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: meltdown at a bus stop once because I had misplaced

563
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 2: my wallet, which is not a big fucking deal real

564
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,040
Speaker 2: in the scheme of things, but I was so angry

565
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: with myself. I smashed my phone up, fucking smashed a

566
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 2: bust shelter up, got on a bus and was like

567
00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 2: just told the driver, and I'm like, I don't have

568
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 2: I don't have any money, I don't have anything. I'm

569
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: fucking getting on this bas like just like. And then

570
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: I remember getting home and being like wow, like just

571
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: like a fit of my own rate. But I was

572
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: just angry with me and it was so you know,

573
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,200
Speaker 2: and like. And then I was like sort of feeling

574
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,239
Speaker 2: that I didn't want to be around anymore. And I

575
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 2: was seeing a therapist. It was getting better, things were

576
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 2: getting better, which was great, but then I always had

577
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 2: those moments where I was like, I don't know, I

578
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 2: don't want to be around anymore. And it evolved I

579
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: stopped seeing I stopped seeing a therapist after a while.

580
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: And at this point, had you you'd already been diagnosed

581
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,119
Speaker 1: with depression.

582
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 2: And anxiety and some unrelenting standards.

583
00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so were you medicated?

584
00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, so on top of therapy, I was medicated, which

585
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 2: I am still still medicated. My dosage isn't quite as

586
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: high as it used to be, but medicated daily, which

587
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: a lot of people are, to sort of keep my

588
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 2: you know, social anxiety and my depression sort of it

589
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: sort of levels you out, I think, and I really

590
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 2: felt the difference.

591
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: I'm going to be really naive here. But is it

592
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,840
Speaker 1: a case of once you take that first pill, from

593
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 1: that moment on you notice a difference.

594
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 2: Noah, nah, So you've got to like you definitely ease

595
00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:35,879
Speaker 2: into it. I remember I eased into it at a

596
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 2: certain dosage and it was like is it doing anything?

597
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 2: Not really, And then they sort of up it. But

598
00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:44,720
Speaker 2: then there's you know, they don't just be like, yeah,

599
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 2: let's just up it. You know, you've got to have

600
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,240
Speaker 2: the process. Yeah, there's a process. And then coming off

601
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: it as well, there's like, you know, I've tried to

602
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,680
Speaker 2: come off it before. It just didn't work. It's just

603
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 2: really bad, like anxiety. And after I felt like I

604
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 2: was getting better and things were getting so much better

605
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: at home, like Oscar was sort of turned a corner

606
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: and was loving and COVID did us a real big

607
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: soul because it gave me the opportunity to be at

608
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 2: home a lot with him, and I rebuilt that bond,

609
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:17,200
Speaker 2: which was great, and like I missed that lockdown because

610
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 2: I got to rebuild that bond with Oscar. Now he's

611
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 2: talking back to me.

612
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 1: It's just.

613
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,600
Speaker 2: But no, that's obviously it's got its own challenges when

614
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:30,480
Speaker 2: he's as he is now, but at that point back then,

615
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 2: when he you know, he was just like sliding along

616
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: the ground and really really cute and like doing those

617
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: things for the first time.

618
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: Like and they start to I always found that the

619
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: relationship with Lola, it improved drastically when she could just

620
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: give me a little bit back.

621
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does, Yeah, totally.

622
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: Obviously, I'm not talking about like they kind of at

623
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 1: this point kind of in talk, but when they smile,

624
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,440
Speaker 1: when they sit, when you walk in the room and

625
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: they recognize your face and give you a smile, or

626
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: they wake up in the morning you go into the

627
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: room and you just get that little reaction. You know.

628
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm quite needy when I say that

629
00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: as a parent, but those little things.

630
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 2: Keep you going.

631
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: Oh sure, for sure.

632
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it keep going, specially even through like you'll

633
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,840
Speaker 2: be having a real shit time with some sleep regression

634
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 2: or something and then they'll do something really cute and

635
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:17,520
Speaker 2: you're like, hey, gay kind.

636
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: Of makes that thread.

637
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, like during COVID like really helped me build

638
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:25,680
Speaker 2: that bond back with Oscar. But I was still was

639
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:27,960
Speaker 2: the adamant that I didn't want any more kids. I

640
00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: was like nah.

641
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: We know that running is such a powerful vehicle to

642
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: creating positive impact and at the end of this month

643
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: is more than a run powered by a little Lemon.

644
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: For the third year in a row.

645
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,920
Speaker 2: It's a community run that happens on the twenty fifth

646
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: of November. It's in support of November this year.

647
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: And since they started it was about two years ago,

648
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 1: they have raised over one point four to eight million dollars,

649
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:54,440
Speaker 1: which is a huge effort, and they've had over four

650
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: thousand runners across Australia and New Zealand. ASH. No surprise here,

651
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:01,840
Speaker 1: but we will be taking in the event. There is

652
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: an option in Sydney, there's one in Centennial Park or

653
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 1: one in Manly. We will do the Manly one. We'll

654
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: do the Manly one closer to you.

655
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: A bit of local knowledge down there. So the options

656
00:31:11,320 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: Matt are ten, thirty and sixty kilometers. Just stick to

657
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 2: what we know.

658
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,240
Speaker 1: Let's go very tempting, isn't it It is?

659
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,600
Speaker 2: However, we'll do the ten down in Manly as mentioned.

660
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 2: But if you want to get involved you can do

661
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 2: so online, which we will leave in the notes of

662
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,239
Speaker 2: this episode the link sign up for the run this

663
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 2: year and join me and Matt struggle through even just

664
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 2: ten you be sick.

665
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: We were running it decked that Lili Lemon and also

666
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: with mustaches on full display. Absolutely once again people being

667
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 1: confused between who was Matt who was Ash? You will

668
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:45,160
Speaker 1: run with a hat on shore?

669
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 2: Well, yes, and we look forward to seeing you guys

670
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,080
Speaker 2: down there or for a really, really, really good course.

671
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 1: Can I ask this with your medication when your therapist

672
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 1: said we're going to medicate you.

673
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,040
Speaker 2: X YGP, I really offered it up.

674
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 1: And what was your jerk reaction to that?

675
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,040
Speaker 2: My knee jerk reaction is I don't want to be

676
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: some medicated freak. And that's just honesty in my head,

677
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: which is so wrong and so incorrect.

678
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: I don't know where that comes from, because I would

679
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: be the same.

680
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 2: I think it's just stigma. Mate. You're just like you

681
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 2: don't want to be seen as a fruit loop, Like

682
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 2: let's be completely honest, Like you want to be seen

683
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 2: like you've got it together. Yeah, And I was so

684
00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 2: embarrassed that I didn't want people to know that I

685
00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 2: was medicated. But then it sort of got to a

686
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 2: point in you know, situation where I was like, fuck it,

687
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: what does it matter? No, one, I'll get a lot

688
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: of the same like response. It's like oh really and

689
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:40,280
Speaker 2: that's about it. Yeah, that was it. But like I

690
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 2: do recall being off of it and being like, nah,

691
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 2: I can do this on my eye. It's such a

692
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: fucking man thing to think, no, you can't make you

693
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: can't make it. Give yourself an upper cart, chuck something

694
00:32:53,280 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 2: in your mouth and get on with it. But like

695
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: it was kind of like I don't need that. Shit

696
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 2: sounds like grandfather.

697
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: The GPS must hear that all the time.

698
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 2: They must be like, yeah, like breaking down that barrier

699
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 2: must be real. It must be a real, like breath

700
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: of fresh air when someone like me comes in and

701
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 2: it's just completely honest and like both both the therapists

702
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 2: that I've had have always said to me, like, you're

703
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: very very very open and honest about your situation, you know,

704
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 2: and that's helped me a lot.

705
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: So was it the case of from this moment on,

706
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: you're medicated, you're sing a therapist, everything is great, ash

707
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 1: is fixed.

708
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: You trick yourself a lot. I find that I'm really

709
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,920
Speaker 2: good at noticing when I've tricked myself, which seems to

710
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 2: be a lot trick myself that I'm okay when I'm not,

711
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 2: and you know what I mean, Like I think ever

712
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,239
Speaker 2: since seeing a therapist, I was like, okay, well I'm

713
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: getting better, I'm getting better. I must be better. It

714
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 2: must be better. Now. I did stop seeing a therapist

715
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: for a while there and started to like come off

716
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: my medication and yeah, I don't know, I just felt

717
00:34:01,040 --> 00:34:04,640
Speaker 2: like it creeps back. It creeps back, like the head

718
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 2: noise creeps back in where I think for me, the

719
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 2: biggest thing was like my inner fight or flight would

720
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,400
Speaker 2: be flight, Let's get the fuck out of here, which

721
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: sucks because I love my family very much, but it

722
00:34:18,120 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: was something else telling me that you need to get

723
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: yourself out of this situation, you don't need to be here.

724
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 2: But always I would be like I could never do that.

725
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 2: I could never let my family down like that. And

726
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: April was always really good at pointing it out, like mate,

727
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 2: you know. And there's been times where like I've woken

728
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 2: April up in the middle of the night where I've

729
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: woken up with anxiety and been like or even situations

730
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 2: where I've woken up saying that I don't want to

731
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 2: be here anymore, which is you know, She's been real

732
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 2: strong about that. And also she's had times where she

733
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 2: said to me, like, I'm sick of you telling me

734
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 2: you don't want to be here anymore sometimes and it's

735
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 2: not me. It's not me, And it is really hard

736
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:03,160
Speaker 2: to maintain. And that's the thing, like people think the

737
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 2: hard part is I hate to break it too, people.

738
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,919
Speaker 2: It's the hard part is not going to face your demons.

739
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: It's maintaining them. And some people, some people don't just

740
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: struggle even more with that because the maintenance part is

741
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: so hard. Like I seeing my therapist. I saw my

742
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,800
Speaker 2: therapist the other day and she was like, she just

743
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 2: straight up to me and said, you've lost focus. She

744
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 2: could just heelp, you've lost focus. Why you want to

745
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:30,840
Speaker 2: be better for your family, You've lost focus why you

746
00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 2: want to be better for yourself. You need to find

747
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,439
Speaker 2: the focus again. Otherwise, if it gets too far away,

748
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: you're slip into denial. Then you'll start to deny that

749
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,239
Speaker 2: you've got a problem, which you do that all the

750
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: fucking time anyway, but it becomes more prominent and more

751
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 2: front focus that you don't have a problem, and then

752
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,319
Speaker 2: all of a sudden you slip into serious depression and

753
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 2: anxiety and we all know what can happen there where

754
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 2: people take their own lives, which is absolutely tragic. But

755
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 2: when you suffer with it, and you you suffer in silence,

756
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 2: it must be way worse. There's been times where April's

757
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 2: like I don't know what's going to happen, like I'm

758
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 2: afraid to leave you alone, or look, it hasn't been

759
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:12,400
Speaker 2: a lot of times, but it has been times, and

760
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: there's been times where like I reckon I think about

761
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 2: escape once a day in some capacity, whether it's me

762
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 2: reflecting on it or reflecting on what I would have done,

763
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 2: and you know how I would have escaped, or like

764
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: I don't mean like harm myself, I just mean like

765
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:30,280
Speaker 2: get out, get away.

766
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Is that because you think the environment with the

767
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:38,320
Speaker 1: family and with your kids is such a trigger point

768
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 1: for Yeah, you having your mental health issues that by

769
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: removing yourself from that it'll make things better. Is that

770
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: why you want to escape? Yeah?

771
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:49,239
Speaker 2: I kind of thought like if I remove myself, I'd

772
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 2: be better. Like it's not really the case, is that

773
00:36:52,120 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 2: you know you can't. It's such a shit way to

774
00:36:55,239 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 2: think about, like you can run away from your problems

775
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,399
Speaker 2: and people do, oh for sure, And look I would

776
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:02,959
Speaker 2: regret that, and my my therapist and I talk about

777
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: that a lot, talk about that, like, if I'd have

778
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: done that, I would have made it would be the

779
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: worst thing I could have done. I would have been

780
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,840
Speaker 2: separated from my on exile island, from my children, you

781
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:15,400
Speaker 2: know what I mean. Which there's challenges now, but like

782
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,759
Speaker 2: they're nowhere near as challenging as it was. I was

783
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:20,719
Speaker 2: adamant that I didn't want to have a second child,

784
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: but now like I can't imagine my life without a

785
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:23,080
Speaker 2: second child.

786
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess because having Oscar like that was you know,

787
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 1: it was a line in the sand where post childbirth,

788
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: that's when these problems started to really rear its head.

789
00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 1: Were you thinking, Gosh, if I have a second child,

790
00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: I'm going to.

791
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:39,919
Speaker 2: Do it again?

792
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: Yeah?

793
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah. It was like I hated so much

794
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: of what he did to April, hated it, hated coming

795
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: home to see her, and she was a shell of

796
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 2: who the person that I used to know. And there

797
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,919
Speaker 2: were times there that I just hated everybody. And then

798
00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 2: when it came around too, like, look, we were in

799
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 2: a much better place, we had learned so much. We've

800
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,600
Speaker 2: sort of had the conversation a lot of times about

801
00:38:07,600 --> 00:38:10,839
Speaker 2: a second kid, and I think when we decided to

802
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 2: do it, we were in a much better place. It

803
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: still had its dramas, and then you threw COVID on

804
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 2: top of that as well, which we had got COVID

805
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 2: six weeks into having Macie, and it was like the

806
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,959
Speaker 2: fucking worst, you know, because then you're isolated on top

807
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: of that as well. But I think we had the

808
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 2: tools to manage it better, and you know, we were

809
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 2: much more able to have the conversations with each other

810
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 2: that we felt like we weren't allowed to have back then.

811
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,840
Speaker 2: You know, like April'll been able to pull me up

812
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 2: and say you need to go. You need to even

813
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,480
Speaker 2: just go and do something for yourself right now because

814
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 2: you're not the best version of you.

815
00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: So you talk about maintenance being one of the hardest things. Yeah,

816
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 1: so what are the tools that you have in your

817
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: kind of arsenal that you rely on to make sure

818
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: that maintenance is still a priority.

819
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,880
Speaker 2: Look, I try and make sure that I keep my

820
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 2: appointments with my therapists regularly, even when I feel like

821
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 2: I'm okay, even when it's not a trick, you know,

822
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 2: and it's like I don't know what I'm going to

823
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,239
Speaker 2: talk about. I feel like it's still a must to

824
00:39:12,280 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 2: go and I never regret it, never regret going. It's

825
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,400
Speaker 2: not the cheapest exercise, don't get me wrong, but like

826
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 2: it's worth every cent. That's one big thing where it's

827
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 2: like always go back. I think, Like for me, I

828
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,440
Speaker 2: don't have like a lot of coping mechanisms that I

829
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 2: know of. Like, look, I'm quite a heavy drinker. But

830
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,000
Speaker 2: when I first started to become a really heavy drinker,

831
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,280
Speaker 2: it was to escape. But now I don't drink to escape.

832
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 2: I drink, you know, mainly for the social and the

833
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,919
Speaker 2: fun aspect in that I do find myself sometimes down

834
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 2: in the dumps about it, but I can recognize it

835
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: pretty quickly. But like in terms of like coping, the

836
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 2: exercise has been a big one. Look at the moment,

837
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:56,760
Speaker 2: because I've been crooked. Shit, it sucks, and I do recall,

838
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: like when we're in isolation a lot, running like really

839
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 2: was amazing for my mental health, That's right. I was

840
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,400
Speaker 2: like I was doing like ten or fifteen k's a

841
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,000
Speaker 2: day every day because it made me feel so good.

842
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,000
Speaker 2: You know. I surf a lot as much as I can,

843
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 2: and I find like the high after that, you know,

844
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: it gets me through it.

845
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:19,280
Speaker 1: But yeah, I've always said I've never been one to meditate.

846
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 2: I couldn't do that really either. I tried really hard.

847
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: I tried so hard everybody else who was doing it

848
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:27,719
Speaker 1: would look at me and go, this is going to

849
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: change your life. Yeah, And I was like, I want

850
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: to tap into that so hard and then.

851
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 2: It's practice, right, And Abel and I would meditate together

852
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 2: a bit there to try encourage us to do it.

853
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 2: I found that what worked better for me was breathing

854
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 2: exercises like whim Half. And I've gotten slack again because sick, unmotivated.

855
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 2: It's hard to breathe when you can't breathe through your

856
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 2: nice But yeah, I found that after a while like

857
00:40:55,400 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 2: wim Hof, because I could concentrate on the breath better

858
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 2: than I could concentrate on the voice, you know what

859
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,600
Speaker 2: I mean. I find I would drift off so much,

860
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,640
Speaker 2: but it's practice. And like people who are really good

861
00:41:06,640 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: at meditation, they'll tell you I've practiced my ass off

862
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 2: to be here, which is fair. It wasn't something that

863
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 2: I overly used as a tool. I found the exercise

864
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,280
Speaker 2: and running and that sort of stuff was much better

865
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:20,879
Speaker 2: used to go to the gym a lot. I also

866
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,600
Speaker 2: found friends were really good. It was really good to

867
00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:27,720
Speaker 2: have like friends that you could talk to about It

868
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 2: was really really important. And sometimes even helping friends as

869
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:34,280
Speaker 2: well really help me. And that's what is also really important.

870
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,760
Speaker 2: If someone never discounts someone saying that they're not feeling okay.

871
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:39,480
Speaker 2: I found that like I could be like, what do

872
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 2: you mean? Because I would have I might not have

873
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:42,880
Speaker 2: the answers.

874
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: Would you ask the same questions that the therapist.

875
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,760
Speaker 2: Would No, Nah, because it's really important, and I step

876
00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,720
Speaker 2: into my office, it's really important not to provide a solution,

877
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,359
Speaker 2: but just hit listen. Yeah, that was the biggest thing.

878
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: Because I guess one question that I think would be

879
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,520
Speaker 1: really helpful is what advice would you give to somebody

880
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,160
Speaker 1: else if their friend is in a similar situation where

881
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 1: they're reaching out and they're saying I'm not okay. How

882
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,280
Speaker 1: is it best to manage those conversations? You think, knowing

883
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:10,240
Speaker 1: what you know now.

884
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,240
Speaker 2: Don't be expected to provide a solution. Like I said,

885
00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: just listen sometimes and I've said it to April a

886
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,600
Speaker 2: few times, I said, I don't want you to give

887
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:21,279
Speaker 2: me a solution. Don't give me a fucking answer. I

888
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: just want you to listen, because as well intentioned as

889
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,200
Speaker 2: the solution might be, it's not what I want from

890
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 2: you right now. So like if I've had friends that

891
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: have come to me and said I'm not okay, what

892
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 2: should I do? I always say CGP straight away, see

893
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: a professional is what you should do. But if you

894
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:41,799
Speaker 2: don't want to do that, you don't want to go

895
00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:44,680
Speaker 2: through that, mate, I'll sit here for an hour while

896
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 2: you talk, and if you want me to provide any insight,

897
00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:51,239
Speaker 2: I will. But if you don't want me to, there's

898
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 2: no judgment from me whatsoever. I'll sit here with you

899
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: for as long as it takes. That's really powerful as well.

900
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 2: But like I always say, go and see GP. They're

901
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: not going to bite your head off. All they're going

902
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: to do is provide some tools. And whether you want

903
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,080
Speaker 2: the I need heap to help because I feel like

904
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,600
Speaker 2: I'm going to off myself or I want to escape

905
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,640
Speaker 2: my reality or whatever it might be. You can go

906
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:16,719
Speaker 2: as far as that. Or if it's like look, I

907
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 2: just sometimes I just need someone to talk to. They

908
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:24,160
Speaker 2: can provide you someone or a helpline or some other tools.

909
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: There's so much stuff out there. Yeah, Like I always

910
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: try and push people to see you gp.

911
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:34,000
Speaker 1: It's funny. Even I'm really fortunate in that I don't

912
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,040
Speaker 1: suffer from depression, but.

913
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 2: You know, of.

914
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,160
Speaker 1: We should, hey, but that's what we do.

915
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 2: Yes, that's what's true.

916
00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: But there are so many times as a parent, as

917
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 1: a husband where I am really frustrated. I have really

918
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 1: bad days, and my biggest coping mechanism is going for

919
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: a run. Laura can see the change in me almost

920
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 1: instantly as obvious as like, as I'm doing tasks around

921
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: the house, I'm heavy footed, getting a bit eggy. The

922
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: way in which I talk to Lawa and the kids,

923
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:10,919
Speaker 1: Laura can tell that that's creeping up and straight away

924
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:14,360
Speaker 1: she's like, get outside, yeah, get a change of scenery.

925
00:44:15,000 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: You know, whether it's a half an hour run, whatever

926
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 1: you do, just to like blow those co webs out

927
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:21,959
Speaker 1: makes such a huge difference, it does.

928
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 2: And like even if you go for a walk, man,

929
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 2: Like there's been times where I've gone I don't want

930
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:29,880
Speaker 2: to go for a run because I don't feel like

931
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 2: sweet masks off. I'll just go for a walk, man,

932
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 2: I'll chuck something in like I always as well try

933
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: and listen to people, people who create music, and some

934
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 2: of thetime you know in their backstory, like someone like

935
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 2: post Malone or someone like Gang of Views and they've

936
00:44:45,360 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 2: got a backstory something like that. I'll always try to

937
00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 2: do to give me some perspective or to make me

938
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,960
Speaker 2: feel like where I'm at that other people are in

939
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:57,160
Speaker 2: the same situation, and that does help me through, even

940
00:44:57,200 --> 00:44:58,879
Speaker 2: if it's just on a walk or something like that,

941
00:44:58,920 --> 00:45:03,520
Speaker 2: because we all know that can be fucking sometimes, but

942
00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:05,640
Speaker 2: just you know, get out in it. You know, it's

943
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: just one of many ways that you can help yourself.

944
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,240
Speaker 2: Everyone's got their own their own thing that makes them happy,

945
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 2: right own hobbies. And I've noticed it even going for

946
00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 2: escape now, like just changes just changes how I'm feeling.

947
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's the biggest surprise, is that

948
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 1: you look at someone at face value. And the last

949
00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: thing I ever would have imagined is that you would

950
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 1: have this story with your mental health challenges. Like I

951
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: would have said that you are someone that would be

952
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: so far from any type of depression social anxiety because

953
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:40,319
Speaker 1: you are someone who is able to hide that quite well.

954
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hide behind a few things. I hide behind

955
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:46,479
Speaker 2: this mustache a lot. I would refuse to. I find

956
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 2: it's sort of something that sits in front of my

957
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,520
Speaker 2: face that's sort of a bit like a shield. I

958
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 2: wear a hat a lot because you know, I'm very

959
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,719
Speaker 2: open about the hat. I feel like it helps me

960
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,200
Speaker 2: with my anxiety. I will try and wear it in

961
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,280
Speaker 2: every situation. But yeah, I do hide behind the humor

962
00:46:04,320 --> 00:46:07,480
Speaker 2: a lot. I like to take the piece out of everything,

963
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 2: even myself, a lot, because I feel like it helps

964
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:11,840
Speaker 2: me through.

965
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 1: Definitely, I think it doesn't matter who the individual is

966
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:20,279
Speaker 1: and their circumstances. I think mental health is something that

967
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: anyone can.

968
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 2: Struggle can struggle with it, whether it's mineor or major.

969
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 2: But I feel like it's really important.

970
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: But also I think it's I think one of the

971
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 1: greatest things about your story is that it's something that

972
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: you are now in control of.

973
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:37,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Like I said, the best thing I ever

974
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,040
Speaker 2: did was seek help or find my voice about it,

975
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,560
Speaker 2: because you start to find out so much about yourself.

976
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,960
Speaker 2: And I think, like I said, everyone everyone should go

977
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: and see someone. Whether you don't think you should or not,

978
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 2: or whether you think you're completely fine or not, there's

979
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 2: no harm in trying to find a bit more about yourself.

980
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 2: Because it could help you down the track.

981
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: Definitely, Ash, I want to say thank you for being

982
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,960
Speaker 1: really vulnerable. I know it sounds like a weird thing

983
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: to say at the end of this, but I can

984
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: only appreciate how hard it would be as a topic

985
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: to unpack, especially because it's so far from what we

986
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:16,879
Speaker 1: normally talk about.

987
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, look for me, I'm happy to do it, and

988
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 2: I'm always been very transparent. And if you know one

989
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:27,000
Speaker 2: person listening to this can find some relatability, or find

990
00:47:27,040 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 2: some comfort or find encouraged voice, then I'm happy with that.

991
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:34,840
Speaker 1: And look, if you're listening in any of the topics,

992
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: have struck a call with you and you think I

993
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:38,440
Speaker 1: do want to reach out. Obviously, as Ash said, there

994
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 1: is the GP, but some other really amazing organizations out

995
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:45,760
Speaker 1: there are Lifeline, there is suicide Callback service and also

996
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:50,359
Speaker 1: Beyond Blue support service as well. The contact details for

997
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 1: each of those will put into the show notes, but

998
00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 1: also there's a great page on the November website which

999
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:59,040
Speaker 1: lists out all these organizations and the contact details. So

1000
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: please don't be shy to reach out. And I will

1001
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: say as well that if there is anyone who you

1002
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: think has immediate danger with their own life obviously called

1003
00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 1: Triple zero. Sure but ash, thanks again.

1004
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:13,799
Speaker 2: Thank you, and look, if you don't want to get

1005
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 2: in touch with any of them, just get in touch

1006
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 2: with me if you want. I'm happy to sit and listen,

1007
00:48:17,280 --> 00:48:20,200
Speaker 2: so dm us if you like.

1008
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 1: Before we go, we do just want to give one

1009
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:28,160
Speaker 1: last thanks to today's sponsor, Lululemon. They are global technical,

1010
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: athletic atpower brands. They are forty four stores across Australia

1011
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,759
Speaker 1: and New Zealand, creating transformational products and experiences for both men.

1012
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: And women, and they focus on building meaningful connections, unlocking

1013
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,920
Speaker 2: greater possibilities and well being for all. For more information,

1014
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: visit lululemon dot com or heading to one of these stores.

1015
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 1: Thanks Lululemon. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians

1016
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,480
Speaker 1: of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, see

1017
00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: and community.

1018
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 2: We pay our respects to their elders past and present

1019
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 2: and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander

1020
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 2: peoples today. This episode was recorded on Gadagal Land