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Speaker 1: Earlier this week we spoke to the Chief Minister about

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Speaker 1: the electricity price reforms that are going to see Territorians

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Speaker 1: hit with a three percent to increase to their power bills.

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Speaker 1: The reforms will roll out in three stages. Phase one

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Speaker 1: that was from the first to July Territory Day. A

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Speaker 1: new tariff will apply for large commercial customers using between

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Speaker 1: five hundred and seven hundred and fifty megawat hours a

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Speaker 1: year NT and Commonwealth government agencies. They're going to be

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Speaker 1: moving on to full cost pricing. The solar feed in

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Speaker 1: tariff is going to double to eighteen point six six

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Speaker 1: cents per killer what hour for energy exported to the

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Speaker 1: grid between three pm and nine pm. Now then it's

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Speaker 1: phase two. This isn't until the first of January, but

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Speaker 1: this phase is probably the one that's had the most

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Speaker 1: people asking questions. And households will move to a tiered pricing.

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Speaker 1: The first fifty five killer what hours per day will

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Speaker 1: be charged at the normal household rate. Usage above that's

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Speaker 1: going to be charged at a higher rate equal to

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Speaker 1: the rate applied to small businesses. New time of use

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Speaker 1: plans are going to be available for households and small

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Speaker 1: businesses to give more choice and control over energy costs.

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Speaker 1: Then there's Phase three that's from the first of July

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Speaker 1: next year, so a bit of time to prep for that.

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Speaker 1: Daily charges for high voltage customers will move to full

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Speaker 1: cost pricing. Local government councils are also going to move

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Speaker 1: to cost reflective tariffs. Now there's a lot of info

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Speaker 1: to take in no doubt about that, and joining me

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Speaker 1: on the show to break down what it means for

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Speaker 1: users is Jacana Energy CEO Rod Hayes.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Rod, morning, Katie, thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, good to have you on the show. Now, first off,

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Speaker 1: how much will a three percent increase equate to for

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Speaker 1: the average household The.

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Speaker 3: Average household bill across the Northern territories about twenty three hundred,

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Speaker 3: seven hundred dollars, So percent increase you're kind of looking

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Speaker 3: at it at seventy to one hundred dollars over a year.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so most would say that's a fairly modest increase.

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Speaker 2: I guess yeah.

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Speaker 3: Look, we're conscious of the difficulty that everyone's having met

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Speaker 3: in their builds, so we're conscious of any increase. And

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Speaker 3: I think not that I should speak on behalf of government.

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Speaker 3: I think government in this consideration kind of same view,

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Speaker 3: which is any increases and increase, but three percent, particularly

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Speaker 3: given the costs of the system have increased significantly more

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Speaker 3: than that, three percent is modest in terms of.

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Speaker 1: You know, any concessions for seniors or our pensioners. Are

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Speaker 1: they able to get concessions at the moment. What's the

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Speaker 1: system sort of look like for them?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, so that there's a range of concessions, there's

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Speaker 3: details of all of those concessions. Nothing has changed under

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Speaker 3: these new tariffs and the changes to the Electacy prossing order.

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Speaker 3: Information is available on this Karna website, so that the

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Speaker 3: full range of details is there. If anyone's got any

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Speaker 3: questions about those, we'd love to call our contact center

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Speaker 3: to kind of walk any customer through what they're eligible for,

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Speaker 3: how they work, and how to claim them.

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Speaker 1: Is it a situation where sometimes people might not realize

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Speaker 1: what they're actually eligible for in some ways?

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Speaker 2: Look, absolutely. I think.

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Speaker 3: The energy industry is complicated enough and certainly concessions. As

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Speaker 3: you said in your intro, there's lots of information, So

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Speaker 3: I think we do the very best job we can

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Speaker 3: of kind of having a pretty comprehensive set of information

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Speaker 3: for customers on the website. But if any customers kind

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Speaker 3: of thinking that maybe they're eligible or maybe they should

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Speaker 3: be eligible, please call that contact center and we can

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Speaker 3: walk you through it.

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Speaker 1: Now, in terms of the power in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: being subsidized, talk us through how exactly that works.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So prices are set for residential and small business

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Speaker 3: customers by government. Underthink all the electrics pricing order which

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Speaker 3: is in your intro when you talk about the changes.

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Speaker 3: That's the mechanism government subsidizers really heavily and has for

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Speaker 3: forever residential and small business customers. Next this year twenty

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Speaker 3: five twenty six, that subsidy, which is called the CSO

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Speaker 3: Community Service Obligation, will be in excess of one hundred

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Speaker 3: and ninety million dollars.

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Speaker 2: So it's about.

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Speaker 3: A third of the cost of energy supply is subsidized

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Speaker 3: by government, and the retailers claim that back. Essentially, so

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Speaker 3: we claim back from treasury the difference between our cost

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Speaker 3: of supply and the revenue we get from those residential

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Speaker 3: small business customers.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and I guess from a customer perspective, because there'll

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Speaker 1: be people listening, going, how does that impact me? How

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Speaker 1: does it impact customers.

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Speaker 3: Fundamentally, it keeps the unit rate we charge down. So

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Speaker 3: your bills made up of two fundamental things. One's the

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Speaker 3: unit cost, how much we charge for killer what hour,

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Speaker 3: and then your consumption. The at rates are kept really

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Speaker 3: low comparatively across the country by that subsidy, So they're

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Speaker 3: about ranked second in terms of price. It's second lowest

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Speaker 3: tariff across the country. Without that, they'd be towards the top.

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Speaker 2: I can't.

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Speaker 3: So your price is low and then you multiply it

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Speaker 3: by usage.

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Speaker 1: All right, now, Rod, one of the questions that we

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Speaker 1: get asked all the time is about the solar feed

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Speaker 1: in tariff. Now we understand the solar feed in tariff

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Speaker 1: is going to double to eighteen point sixty six cents

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Speaker 1: per kila. What hour the energy exported to the grid

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Speaker 1: between three pm and nine pm? Now a lot of

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Speaker 1: people questioning why this is the time frame given given

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Speaker 1: that the sun goes down at six pm.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so, first point, it's dark. Your solar panels

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Speaker 3: are not producing when it's dark. Everyone understands that. Really

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Speaker 3: this is about try our first step in really trying

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Speaker 3: to encourage one what's good for the consumer and the

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Speaker 3: owner of the solar, but balancing that with really what

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Speaker 3: the system needs. So at the moment, we're in this

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Speaker 3: happy position of really big solar uptake in the Northern

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Speaker 3: Territory where we're actually getting, from a system point of view,

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Speaker 3: more solar available than we can actually use. So there's

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Speaker 3: a bunch of solar middle of the day when it's

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Speaker 3: really sunny that gets spilt, doesn't go anywhere system doesn't

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Speaker 3: need it. In fact, it destabilizes the system if we

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Speaker 3: have a huge amount more than we can absorb. Where

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Speaker 3: it's really useful to the system for that excess to

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Speaker 3: be available is during peak consumption, which is.

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Speaker 2: Sort of end of school hours to after.

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Speaker 1: Dinner, when we all get home, turn the aircons on.

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Speaker 3: Which is where you turn the air cons you turn

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Speaker 3: the telly's on, all of that stuff is going on

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Speaker 3: in everyone's household. That's the peak consumption period. So this

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Speaker 3: is a first step towards encouraging or recognizing that where

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Speaker 3: and wise we can use the solar it's useful to

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Speaker 3: the system. We're giving a signal. It's a first and sort.

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Speaker 1: Of balancing the grid as well, making sure that it

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Speaker 1: doesn't you know, a collapse, isn't the right word, but

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Speaker 1: doesn't struggle I.

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Speaker 2: Spose, Yeah, absolutely, so talked about lots.

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Speaker 3: It's talked about infinitely on the Earth coast, which is

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Speaker 3: solar is variable. So the biggest issue with solar is

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Speaker 3: that you can be pushing out full power cloud comes

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Speaker 3: across and all of a sudden, it's like you staged

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Speaker 3: your car. You've lost that power output from the solar,

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Speaker 3: and the grid, if you like, has to cope with that.

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Speaker 3: So the more solar you have in the middle of

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Speaker 3: the day and the more percentage of your generation, the

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Speaker 3: more risk you're at of destabilizing.

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Speaker 1: Yes, now, Rod one of the other big questions that

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Speaker 1: we've received this week, and we know that this change

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Speaker 1: isn't going to come into play until the first of January,

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Speaker 1: but the Chief Minister had spoken to us on Monday

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Speaker 1: and said that, well, she spoke about super users to

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Speaker 1: a going to be slugged the small business rate if

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Speaker 1: they exceed fifty five killer what hours per day? Do

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Speaker 1: you know how many people are likely to be impacted

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Speaker 1: by that change?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so there's about ten thousand customers who are on

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Speaker 3: a regular basis succeed that fifty five killo odd hours

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Speaker 3: and just for per day and just for context, the

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Speaker 3: average household and LAMN territory uses about twenty three killer

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Speaker 3: WHATD hours a day. Our view is that's sort of

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Speaker 3: an average larger household. So a standalone dwelling consumes around

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Speaker 3: thirty to thirty five kilo odd hours a day.

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Speaker 2: So fifty five kilod hours a day is a big user, okay.

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Speaker 3: And there's a whole bunch of reasons which are none

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Speaker 3: of our business. They're the customer's business about why their

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Speaker 3: consumption is highp. This is really about trying to send

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Speaker 3: the signal to customers. Do you do? Is there anything

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Speaker 3: you can do in your place that lowers you demand?

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Speaker 3: Because that will lower your bill.

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Speaker 1: Look you in Humpty Doo's message through and said Katie,

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Speaker 1: what does fifty five killer words energy use.

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Speaker 2: Look like a day?

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Speaker 1: Is that excessive? Or is it two air conditioners running?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 3: So if it's a normal household, so a two by

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Speaker 3: four that's got insulation and you're running a normal air

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Speaker 3: conditioning load, we'd expect that to be thirty to thirty five.

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Speaker 3: You've got some kids, you're in and out, but you know,

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Speaker 3: a standard home, so fifty five is big. It might

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Speaker 3: be a largish rural property with some outbuildings that are

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Speaker 3: air conditioned, and you might have a granny flat, you

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Speaker 3: might have six beer fridges that you have outside in

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Speaker 3: the ambient temperature, working really hard. So it will be

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Speaker 3: it will be unusually large, and a lot of those

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Speaker 3: customers will be running some kind of some sort of

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Speaker 3: a business enterprise as well.

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Speaker 1: I reckon we must have a few of them. Let's

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Speaker 1: listen to the show, because we've got a few messages

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Speaker 1: throughout the week saying, you know, I do use more

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Speaker 1: than fifty five k killer watts per day out in

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Speaker 1: the rural area. Most of rural residents. Yes, so pumping,

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Speaker 1: you know, like they've got bores and that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: So absolutely, and just for listeners, Yeah, the way this

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Speaker 3: will work is your first fifty five kilots same price

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Speaker 3: as every So that's the residential standard rate. It's only

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Speaker 3: the units above the fifty five killer threshold that you

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Speaker 3: will pay the PREMI on the premium about five cents

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Speaker 3: per killer what hour. So if you're a seventy killer

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Speaker 3: what hour user, that'll cost you about seventy five cents

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Speaker 3: a day when you're exceeding that, when you're hitting that limit.

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Speaker 1: So it's not going to be a massive increase for

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Speaker 1: these customers.

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Speaker 3: No, it shouldn't be a massive increase. The customers that

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Speaker 3: are consistently using that kind of level will have a

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Speaker 3: bill of around one thousand dollars a year anyway, what

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Speaker 3: this although if you kind of play it through, it

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Speaker 3: might be an extra two hundred dollars a year that

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Speaker 3: they'd see if they're consistently using say seventy killer what hour?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Andrew and Herbert got in contact with us yesterday

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Speaker 1: and said, Katie, could you please ask why that why

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Speaker 1: Jacana or Power and Water have raised the line voltage

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Speaker 1: to cause the solar inverters to shut down makes the

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Speaker 1: feed in tariff less than worthless. It's up to two

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty four vaults, says Andrew. Do you know

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Speaker 1: that one?

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Speaker 2: I don't, Katie.

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Speaker 3: That's very definitely system control Power and Water Corporation.

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Speaker 1: So we can put that to Power and Water.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yep, all right.

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Speaker 1: Hey, we got another one that says if there are

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Speaker 1: going to be higher charges after a certain amount of usage,

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Speaker 1: then Jakanta need to get themselves sorted to have their

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Speaker 1: dashboard system working. Apparently, when you log on to your

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Speaker 1: Jacana account online. You're supposed to be able to get

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Speaker 1: an update about your usage. Families should have the ability

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Speaker 1: to be able to monitor their usage, therefore managing their

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Speaker 1: finances better. Do you know if that's is that something

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Speaker 1: that can be changed or fixed in some way?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so I think your listeners referring to as is

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Speaker 3: our my account portal.

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Speaker 2: We have had issues with it. We're conscious of those.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that we are looking to work

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Speaker 3: on over the next period is we're just completing a

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Speaker 3: project with Power and Water Corp.

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Speaker 2: That will give us much more granular daily meta reading data.

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Speaker 3: Because obviously to have a good portal and provide that

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Speaker 3: information to customers, you need the what's happened today, not

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Speaker 3: what happened five months ago. So it's part of the

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Speaker 3: continuum for Jacana is really doing exactly what your listeners

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Speaker 3: talked about, which is more information at the hands of

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Speaker 3: the customer so they they can manage.

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Speaker 1: There something that's been worked through. Yeah, okay, I think

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Speaker 1: that'll be good for people because then you can manage it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, that's the issue for a lot of us,

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Speaker 1: isn't it When you get that power bill or whatever bill,

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Speaker 1: it is whether it's power or something else. If you

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Speaker 1: haven't sort of budgeted for it, it can be difficult.

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Speaker 2: Correct.

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Speaker 3: So really where you want to be is where the

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Speaker 3: power is in the hands of the customers. Pardon the pun,

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Speaker 3: but they're seeing what their consumption is doing, what it's costing,

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Speaker 3: and they can make their choices.

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Speaker 2: It's not for us to tell customers what they should

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Speaker 2: shouldn't do in their.

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Speaker 3: Household, but our ambition is to give them good information

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Speaker 3: they can make decisions on how they want to live

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Speaker 3: their lives and how much power they want to use.

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Speaker 1: ROD with those superusers, as the Chief Minister had referred

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Speaker 1: to them, they will you kinda contact those customers and

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Speaker 1: just let them know that, hey, you are relatively high,

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So that the super users will fall into two categories.

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Speaker 3: Run is essentially a regular super user that's constantly kind

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Speaker 3: of sitting up at that above the threshold. Yes, we've

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Speaker 3: got to contact and comms program where they'll all be

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Speaker 3: contacted prior to one January.

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Speaker 2: And then we'll have the.

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Speaker 3: What we call the occasional super user that might have

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Speaker 3: an abnormal usage period.

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Speaker 1: Have ten members visiting.

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Speaker 3: From the family mail turn up and everything gets a

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Speaker 3: hammering for a couple of days so that they won't

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Speaker 3: be communicated with other than.

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Speaker 2: Through the bill.

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Speaker 3: But again going back, that only be charged the excess

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Speaker 3: the premium on those units above the fifty five kilod

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Speaker 3: hours a day.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's been good to speak to you this morning,

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Speaker 1: Rod Hayes. Before I let you go, just you know,

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Speaker 1: what can customers do to try and maybe reduce their

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Speaker 1: power bills If they are a little bit worried, maybe

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Speaker 1: they are sort of sitting borderline worried their prices are

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Speaker 1: going to go up. What can they do to try

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Speaker 1: and reduce those bills a little?

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Speaker 2: I think two things. If you're a solar customer, whatever.

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Speaker 3: You can do to shift your load to the middle

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Speaker 3: of the day when your solar panels are being out

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Speaker 3: lots of power. So if you've got a pool pump,

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Speaker 3: run your pul pump hard in the middle of the day,

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Speaker 3: don't run it at peak at night if you can

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Speaker 3: do that, If you can put a timer on it.

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Speaker 3: Manage your air conditioning. That's the biggest load in the

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Speaker 3: Northern Territory, so keeping your house at a comfortable temperature.

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Speaker 3: There's a bunch of things that we can all do

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Speaker 3: around that not running your air conditioner at sixteen or

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Speaker 3: seven zon degrees and learning not letting your kids have

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Speaker 3: control of the remote probably number one practical tip I reckon,

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Speaker 3: But second.

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Speaker 2: Just have a look at that how you're using your conditioner.

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Speaker 2: The harder you make your air conditioner.

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Speaker 3: Work, the more power you use, So really hitting it

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Speaker 3: hard coming home at night and hitting seventeen degrees and

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Speaker 3: trying to rapidly lower the temperature in your house, use

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Speaker 3: a lot of power. Slow and steady is the secret.

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Speaker 3: And all that says if you can live at twenty

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Speaker 3: four degrees inside, that's the sweet spot. That's the most

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Speaker 3: efficient point to run your air conditioner.

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Speaker 1: Well, really good to speak to you this morning, Jakanta

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Speaker 1: Energy CEO Rod Hayes, thanks so much for your time.

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Speaker 2: Thanks, thank you,