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Speaker 1: Already and this is the daily This is the daily.

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Speaker 1: Ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 2: the sixth of August.

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Speaker 1: I'm emma, i'm lucy. Last week there was a surprising

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Speaker 1: new chapter in a very long story. The man who

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Speaker 1: has admitted to being the architect of the nine to

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Speaker 1: eleven attacks and two of his alleged accomplices agreed to

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Speaker 1: a plea deal in order to avoid the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: The men would plead guilty to charges of murder. But

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Speaker 1: then over the weekend, the White House intervened. In today's

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Speaker 1: deep dive, we'll explain the lead up to the historic

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Speaker 1: plea deal and how it was overturned. But first the headlines.

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Speaker 2: The ASX two hundred, which includes Australia's two hundred biggest

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Speaker 2: publicly listed companies, dropped by nearly four percent on Monday.

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Speaker 2: That's the worst single day drop since the early stages

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Speaker 2: of COVID in May twenty twenty. It's the second consecutive

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Speaker 2: day of uncertainty after markets closed two point one percent

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Speaker 2: behind on Friday. It follows weaker than expected job stata

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Speaker 2: out of the US, which prompted global fears of a

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Speaker 2: looming recession, plunging global markets by over one hundred billion

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Speaker 2: dollars in a single day of trading. Japan's stock market

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Speaker 2: is amongst the hardest hit, with the index that tracks

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Speaker 2: the two hundred and twenty five biggest companies in Japan,

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Speaker 2: the NIKEY two two five, plunging twelve point four percent

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Speaker 2: in its worst ever day. Here in Australia, the RBA

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Speaker 2: will announce their monthly decision on interest rates later today.

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Speaker 1: Fewer than six percent of species caught in New South

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Speaker 1: Wales shark nets over the summer where target white and

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Speaker 1: tiger sharks. In New South Wales, shark nets are used

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Speaker 1: at over fifty beaches from September until the end of April.

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Speaker 1: An annual report from the New South Wales Department of

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Speaker 1: Primary Industries this week shows that of two hundred and

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Speaker 1: fifty five animals caught in mashing, including ninety rays, twenty

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Speaker 1: nine turtles, six dolphins and one whale, thirty six percent

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Speaker 1: were released alive. The nets caught fifteen animals from target species,

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Speaker 1: including twelve white sharks and three tiger sharks. The remaining

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Speaker 1: animals were from other species of sharks, including gray nurses

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Speaker 1: which are endangered. Last week, the state government announced it

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Speaker 1: will remove the nets a month early next year on

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Speaker 1: thirty one March twenty twenty five, to increase protections for

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Speaker 1: marine species.

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Speaker 2: The Australian Security Intelligence Organization that's AZO has raised the

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Speaker 2: national terrorism threat level from possible to probable. Speaking alongside

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Speaker 2: AZO chief Mike Burgess and Attorney General Mark Dreyfus yesterday,

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister Anthony Albanezi said the decision followed advice from

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Speaker 2: governments around the world who are quote concerned about youth

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Speaker 2: and online radicalization and the rise of a new mixed ideoligeez.

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Speaker 2: Albanzi reassured Australians that probable does not mean inevitable, nor

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Speaker 2: does it mean there's an imminent threat. It comes after

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Speaker 2: the terror level was downgraded for the first time in

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Speaker 2: eight years in November twenty twenty two.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news nearly twenty thousand guns have been

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Speaker 1: surrendered to the WA government during the first five months

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Speaker 1: of its voluntary gun buyback program. It comes ahead of

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Speaker 1: new legislation in the state to limit the number of

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Speaker 1: guns a person can lawfully own. Licensed gun owners can

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Speaker 1: receive up to one thousand dollars if they hand in

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Speaker 1: their weapon at any WA police station, under a scheme

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Speaker 1: set to wrap up at the end of this month.

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Speaker 1: Other changes include regular mandatory health assessments for gun owners

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Speaker 1: and compulsory training for all prospective gun license holders.

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Speaker 2: Lucy, there have been some pretty remarkable developments in recent

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Speaker 2: days surrounding the man who said he's responsible for the

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Speaker 2: nine to eleven attack. Now, this story has been going

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Speaker 2: on so long that when we brought it up with

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Speaker 2: the Daily OS team, we learned that some of them

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Speaker 2: weren't even born when nine to eleven happened in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and one. So given that humbling fact, maybe we

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Speaker 2: need to start at the beginning here.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, whether or not you even consider nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven the beginning of this story is kind of

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Speaker 1: a matter for historians, but we have to start somewhere,

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Speaker 1: so we'll start there. On eleven September two thousand and one,

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Speaker 1: terrorists from the Islamist extremist group Al Qaeda hijacked four

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Speaker 1: commercial US flights. Two were deliberately crashed into New York's

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Speaker 1: World Trade Center aka the Twin Towers, killing around three

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Speaker 1: thousand people. One of the planes crashed into the US

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Speaker 1: Department of Defense in Virginia aka the Pentagon, killing one

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Speaker 1: hundred and eighty four people, and then passengers and crew

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Speaker 1: successfully diverted the fourth plane from its planned target, the

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Speaker 1: US capital of Washington, DC. It crashed in a field

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Speaker 1: in pennsylv killing everyone on board.

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Speaker 2: That's flight ninety three that some people might have heard

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Speaker 2: about or seen that movie, But it's really hard to

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Speaker 2: imagine how the two thousands might have gone if this

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Speaker 2: didn't happen. You know, nine to eleven is so deeply

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Speaker 2: ingrained in the minds of every country in the world.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure it's fair to say it's impacted national and

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Speaker 2: global security. It changed the way we bored a plane.

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Speaker 2: It changed the way that aviation worked around the world.

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Speaker 1: Exactly. That day is kind of like you can call

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Speaker 1: it an inflection point where everything that came after was

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Speaker 1: different to everything that came before. The US, especially where

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Speaker 1: these attacks happened, developed a kind of with US or

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Speaker 1: against US relationship to the rest of the world. I

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Speaker 1: think it's fair to say. In the wake of the attacks,

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Speaker 1: then new President George W. Bush signed new US military

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Speaker 1: powers into law. That legislation gave officials the protections to

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Speaker 1: use quote all necessary and appropriate force against any person, organization,

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Speaker 1: or country found to be irresponsible for these attacks.

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Speaker 2: And of course, as you mentioned, that inflection point of

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Speaker 2: nine to eleven and these new legislative powers for US

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Speaker 2: officials and military and law enforcement, that takes us to

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Speaker 2: the next decades of war in the Middle East and

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Speaker 2: Central Asia exactly.

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Speaker 1: So, the Bush administration declared the Global War on Terror,

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Speaker 1: the US went to war with Afghanistan and then Iraq.

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Speaker 1: Several other countries, including Australia, followed suit. Meanwhile, the Central

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Speaker 1: Intelligence Agency, so that's the US's intelligence agency for external threats,

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Speaker 1: the FBI being internal cases. The CIA led a decade

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Speaker 1: long man hunt for al Qaeda founder Osama bin Laden,

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Speaker 1: who was killed by US forces in Pakistan in twenty eleven.

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Speaker 1: Dozens of others were arrested during this time over suspected

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Speaker 1: ties to the terrorist group of whom is kind of

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Speaker 1: the man of the hour, Khalid Sheikh Muhammad, who will

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Speaker 1: call KSM. He's really the man at the center of

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Speaker 1: the past week's developments.

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Speaker 2: So that is a very broad overview to kind of

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Speaker 2: get us up to speed everything we need to know

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Speaker 2: about these latest developments. What can you tell me about KSM,

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Speaker 2: the man at the center of this.

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Speaker 1: He was a senior leader in al Qaeda. He was

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Speaker 1: captured by the CIA in Pakistan in two thousand and three,

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Speaker 1: and two of his alleged accomplices, Whalid bin Attash and

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Speaker 1: Mustafa al Hasawi, were also arrested in two thousand and three.

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Speaker 1: They were then transferred to the US military prison at

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Speaker 1: Guantanamo Bay three years later in two thousand and six,

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Speaker 1: and they've been there ever since.

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Speaker 2: Guantanamo Bay, of course, is in Cuba. I think it's

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Speaker 2: probably the kind of place that comes up in news

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Speaker 2: coverage or when we're talking historically about nine to eleven,

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Speaker 2: but not everyone might actually understand what it is, what

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Speaker 2: its purpose is, What do we need to know about

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Speaker 2: Guantanamo Bay.

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Speaker 1: Guantanamo Bay is a prison that was set up in

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Speaker 1: the wake of nine to eleven. It's held around eight

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Speaker 1: hundred detainees over its lifetime, and about thirty are still there,

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Speaker 1: some of whom have never been charged with a crime.

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Speaker 1: At the Guantanamo complex, there's also a court to try

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Speaker 1: people charged with mostly crimes relating to nine to eleven,

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Speaker 1: but that is something that will come back to later.

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Speaker 1: Human rights groups including Amnesty International, have raised concerns over

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Speaker 1: the ongoing detention of several prisoners without fair trials. In

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Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, while in detention at Guantanamo, KSM

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Speaker 1: admitted to authorities that he was the architect of the

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Speaker 1: nine to eleven attacks.

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Speaker 2: So two thousand and one, nine to eleven, KSM is captured,

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Speaker 2: in two thousand and three, held in Guantanamo, and he

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Speaker 2: admits to his involvement in the attacks to authorities in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, How do we get to twenty

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Speaker 2: to a plea deal, a pre trial agreement, but no

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Speaker 2: movement in the meantime? What happened in those middle years?

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Speaker 1: There's a crucial element we haven't touched on yet, and

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Speaker 1: that is how the CIA got information out of KSM

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Speaker 1: and other people it arrested. In the years after nine

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Speaker 1: to eleven. The CIA created a program which it called

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Speaker 1: enhanced Interrogation Techniques. This has later been described as torture.

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Speaker 2: So what do we know about the actual capture of

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Speaker 2: KSM and the years between that capture and the kind

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Speaker 2: of confession In two thousand and.

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Speaker 1: Seven, in the weeks after KSM was captured by the CIA,

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Speaker 1: and I'm really just going to focus on KSM, but

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Speaker 1: you can safely extend what I'm talking about to many

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Speaker 1: of the other people who were captured by the CAA

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Speaker 1: during this time. So, in short, he was tortured for

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Speaker 1: a period of a few weeks that we're aware of

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Speaker 1: that we have documentation to support. During this time, he

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Speaker 1: was awake for seven and a half days at a stretch,

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Speaker 1: and was waterboarded one hundred and eighty three times over

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Speaker 1: the course of two weeks in what internal CIA documents

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Speaker 1: described as quote, a series of near drownings. For those

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Speaker 1: who don't know, waterboarding is a form of torture that

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Speaker 1: simulates drowning, where a person has water poured on their face,

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Speaker 1: into their nose and mouth while they're unable to move.

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Speaker 2: Intelligence agencies like the CIA, you know, global spy agencies

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Speaker 2: from anywhere in the world are not traditionally forthcoming or

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Speaker 2: transparent about their activities, particularly as it relates to terrorism

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Speaker 2: terror suspects, that being such a sensitive area of security concern.

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Speaker 2: So how do we know all of this about the CIA?

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Speaker 1: The reason we know all of this is because of

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Speaker 1: a report released in twenty fourteen by the US Senate

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Speaker 1: Intelligence Committee, which oversees the CIA. In fact, what we

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Speaker 1: know is from the report's executs summary, the only section

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Speaker 1: that's been made public, and parts of it are redacted,

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Speaker 1: literally have black lines drawn through them. It's about seven

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Speaker 1: hundred pages long. I've gone through all of this because

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Speaker 1: the Senate report, which gives us the information about KSM

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Speaker 1: being tortured, also found that under these circumstances, the information

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Speaker 1: he gave the CIA was in many cases one hundred

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Speaker 1: percent false. At one point he admitted he quote simply

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Speaker 1: told his interrogators what he thought they wanted to hear.

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Speaker 1: The report puts it pretty simply, quote the use of

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Speaker 1: the CIA's enhanced interrogation techniques was not an effective means

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Speaker 1: of obtaining accurate information.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So with what we gleamed from that report, the

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Speaker 2: idea that KSM's confession to being this so called mastermind

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Speaker 2: of nine to eleven is then called into question because

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Speaker 2: of the circumstances under which he gave that information. Up

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Speaker 2: now it's for a trial to determine his guilt. So

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Speaker 2: has that report influenced these proceedings.

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Speaker 1: It's been one factor for sure. International criminal cases are

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Speaker 1: already really lengthy proceedings, and even assuming the CIA arrests

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Speaker 1: KSM in two thousand and three, takes him straight to

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Speaker 1: Guantanamo and tries him. It still might have taken several

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Speaker 1: years to reach a trial, let alone a judgment on

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Speaker 1: the three thousand murders that he and his alleged accomplices

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Speaker 1: are charged with. But torture has been a serious complicating factor,

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Speaker 1: and the US government has been trying to proceed to

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Speaker 1: a trial but has had difficulty working out how evidence

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Speaker 1: given after he endured torture should be interpreted in court.

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Speaker 1: A trial date was actually set and then delayed due

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Speaker 1: to COVID, and in March twenty twenty two, discussions began

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Speaker 1: to possibly avoid a trial by having KSM, Wilid bin Attash,

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Speaker 1: and Mustafa al Hasawi plead guilty and be sentenced to

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Speaker 1: life in prison rather than the death penalty.

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Speaker 2: So last week we had a development on those discussions.

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Speaker 1: What happened, So those discussions came to fruition when it

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Speaker 1: was announced that this plea deal had been agreed to

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Speaker 1: and in a letter to families of nine to eleven victims,

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Speaker 1: the Pentagon confirmed the prisoners would plead guilty and be

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Speaker 1: sentenced to life in jail.

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Speaker 2: So when this broke last week. It was a really

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Speaker 2: significant headline, the idea that these suspects who have been

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Speaker 2: in detention for twenty plus years, had reached a deal,

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Speaker 2: reached an agreement with US officials, but then the White

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Speaker 2: House intervened. It seems like the government wasn't as involved

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Speaker 2: in this plea deal as maybe we thought. So who

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Speaker 2: was behind the workings of that agreement and why was

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Speaker 2: it scrapped?

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Speaker 1: In terms of the workings of the agreement, there are

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Speaker 1: the US government prosecutors representing the people of the United States,

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Speaker 1: and then there are the defense attorneys for or the

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Speaker 1: men involved. Then, in terms of Guantanamo Bay itself and

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Speaker 1: the court there that I mentioned earlier, the US Secretary

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Speaker 1: of Defense, Lloyd Austin, had delegated oversight of the proceedings

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Speaker 1: to a military lawyer called Susan Escalia. That doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: she was the judge. There's actually been several judges because

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Speaker 1: this has dragged on so long. But she was kind

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Speaker 1: of the managing director of all the cases ongoing at Guantanamo,

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Speaker 1: and she had the power to sign off on plea

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Speaker 1: deals and decide whether the death sentence could be applied.

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Speaker 1: The New York Times has previously reported that President Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden and his administration, of which Lloyd Austin is a part,

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Speaker 1: have been hesitant to approve a plea deal because there

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Speaker 1: are so many different opinions on how this should proceed. Now,

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Speaker 1: Austin has intervened in Escalier's decision, saying the responsibility to

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Speaker 1: accept a plea deal is so big in this case

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Speaker 1: that he, as a Secretary of Defense, should be the

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Speaker 1: only one to sign off on it, kind of walking

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Speaker 1: back that responsibility that he'd given her. White House representatives

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Speaker 1: have also said they didn't know this was going to

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Speaker 1: be announced ahead of time.

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Speaker 2: So you have this military lawyer who is assigned essentially

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Speaker 2: this job at Guantanamo Bay to manage proceedings of the

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Speaker 2: detainees still held there, the thirty detainees there, those powers

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Speaker 2: she's been given by the US Secretary of Defense, and

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Speaker 2: she makes a decision about KSM and his accomplices in

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Speaker 2: terms of this plea deal, But that is then backflipped.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that that is because of the response

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Speaker 2: to this deal when it was announced that there was

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Speaker 2: just so much pushback, like do we feel an actual

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Speaker 2: mistake has been made here in the process or rather

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Speaker 2: that it is more about how the American people have responded.

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Speaker 2: Given the sensitivities of this story, particularly in the hearts

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Speaker 2: of Americans.

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Speaker 1: It's complicated, and I would say that the response hasn't

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Speaker 1: been one sided. Certainly, several Republicans, including Republican Speaker of

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Speaker 1: the House Mike Johnson, said that this plea deal shouldn't

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Speaker 1: have been allowed to go ahead, and one support group

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Speaker 1: of nine to eleven families has said these men should

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Speaker 1: face the death penalty. However, they're not a monolith, and

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Speaker 1: there is at least one other nine to eleven support

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Speaker 1: group who have been in favor of the plea deal

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Speaker 1: going through, basically saying this is making the best out

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Speaker 1: of a really bad scenario and kind of bringing it

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Speaker 1: to a close after all this time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure after twenty something years that for many

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Speaker 2: of those families the idea of reaching a kind of

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Speaker 2: peaceful end to all of this uncertainty could be desirable.

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Speaker 2: But what does this mean for the case now the

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Speaker 2: plea deal's been scrapped, So what happens.

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Speaker 1: It's honestly still kind of unclear. The New York Times

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Speaker 1: has reported that those pre trial proceedings that have been

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Speaker 1: going on since at least twenty twelve will continue. Lloyd

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Speaker 1: Austin's order also means it's likely the death penalty is

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Speaker 1: now still available, but it's still not clear when an

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Speaker 1: actual trial for these attacks from two thousand and one

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Speaker 1: will actually happen. We've gone now from a strong likelihood

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Speaker 1: that this was going to come to some kind of

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Speaker 1: conclusion this year, back to the open ended timeline that

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Speaker 1: existed until last week.

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Speaker 2: Wow, Lucy, an incredibly complex timeline. Thank you so much

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Speaker 2: for taking us through it. As always, we will keep

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Speaker 2: you updated on this one as we find out more.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. If

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Speaker 2: you liked it and if you learn something from it,

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Speaker 2: please feel free to share it with a friend. Don't

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Speaker 2: forget to follow or subscribe wherever you are listening to

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Speaker 2: the podcast or if you're watching us over on our YouTube.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then, have a

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Speaker 2: great day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Adunda

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Speaker 1: bungelung Caalcuttin woman from Gadigo Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gatgirl Piece and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest

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Speaker 1: rate island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.