Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome back to Life Uncut.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 1: We are super excited to have a guest on the
Speaker 1: show that has been an inspiration to both of us for.
Speaker 3: Many years and for different reasons.
Speaker 1: This woman has been profiled by Forbes, The Huffington Post,
Speaker 1: The New York Post, The Sydney Morning Herald, the Australian,
Speaker 1: and in twenty eleven was named Breakout Start.
Speaker 3: By The New York Times.
Speaker 1: Known originally for her creative skills in jewelry design, she
Speaker 1: grew her brand to astronomical heights. She had offices in London, Paris,
Speaker 1: New York, Sydney, LA and Tokyo. But on top of that,
Speaker 1: she's a brand ambassador, a well known keynote speaker, is
Speaker 1: currently writing her first book, and has a foundation set
Speaker 1: up to support women in business and gender equality. Living
Speaker 1: between New York and Sydney, some would say she has
Speaker 1: it all, but my favorite part of this story is
Speaker 1: the fact that she came from very humble beginnings and
Speaker 1: from my hometown Port mcquarie. Now that's not inspiration for
Speaker 1: everyone to go out and do more. I don't know
Speaker 1: what is. So, Samantha Wills, Welcome to Life Uncut.
Speaker 2: Thank you, what an intro, and I was like, I actually.
Speaker 3: Felt like I was on a game show.
Speaker 1: Like who could this be?
Speaker 3: She also liked this space. I'm welcome, thanks for coming in.
Speaker 2: Thank you guys so much.
Speaker 3: Samantha. I am genuinely excited to have you here today.
Speaker 3: I have my own jury business and it's something that
Speaker 3: I'm really passionate about and I have a lot of
Speaker 3: that to attribute to you, because going back eight years ago,
Speaker 3: I was reading an article online about this jewelry designer
Speaker 3: named Samantha Whils who had forged for herself her own career.
Speaker 3: And I remember sitting there in my office in my
Speaker 3: job that I freaking hated at the time, thinking I
Speaker 3: could I could do that, Maybe I could do that.
Speaker 3: And I was doing Bondo markets very similarly to how
Speaker 3: you got started, and I ended up quitting my job
Speaker 3: a few weeks later and I've had my business ever since.
Speaker 2: That gives me actual goosebumps. That means so so much
Speaker 2: to me, So thank you for sharing that with you
Speaker 2: or you have achieved. But it's yeah, it's a rare thing.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people come to me, oh
Speaker 2: we've read your story so many times, but not a
Speaker 2: lot of people say here's how I acted on it.
Speaker 2: So congratulations to you. It's all you that has done
Speaker 2: that well.
Speaker 3: I was worried that you would think I was a
Speaker 3: crazy fan girl, but I'm very happy that you were
Speaker 3: here today.
Speaker 2: It's very happy to be here.
Speaker 1: She actually is a crazy thing. Yeah, that's all right.
Speaker 1: I signed this for me before you leave. So let's
Speaker 1: just start off. You grew up in Port McCray. Did
Speaker 1: you grow up as a little.
Speaker 3: Wrap bag running around barefoot like I did?
Speaker 2: I did, indeed tell us about it, so I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't have to tell you about portmcraw but it's
Speaker 2: a very small town on the mid North coast. It's very,
Speaker 2: very idyllic and beautiful, so I think you know, childhood
Speaker 2: was spent growing up at the beach. Peppermint Park and
Speaker 2: Fantasy Glades were like a very poor man's Disneyland back.
Speaker 3: In the day.
Speaker 2: They're all closed down now, but it was just a
Speaker 2: very time. I say, it's country in New South Wales,
Speaker 2: but people argue that it's coastal, which I understand, but
Speaker 2: it's regional New South Wales. You know, going to the
Speaker 2: city was to me going to Coffs Harbor or Newcastle
Speaker 2: for art Express in high school or something, and Sydney
Speaker 2: was the huge, huge city, so it felt very isolated
Speaker 2: in a way. But you know, I was in high
Speaker 2: school in the mid to late nineties, and I do say,
Speaker 2: I'm like, you know, when I was at school, the
Speaker 2: Internet wasn't even around, and I do so let my mum.
Speaker 2: But at Port mcory High School, we had two computers
Speaker 2: that had the Internet at the time, and they were
Speaker 2: both for the computer coding class. So what you saw
Speaker 2: was all you kind of knew. And I think that's
Speaker 2: the best. It was very much like Summer Bay.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, I often we actually went to the
Speaker 1: same school, so I went to Port High but I
Speaker 1: think we're a few years apart.
Speaker 2: So you had the Internet.
Speaker 3: Well no, I actually remember the internet coming in.
Speaker 2: What a day. What a time to be alive, isn't it.
Speaker 1: But I remember one of one of our classes at school,
Speaker 1: would you believe, Laura was surfing studies, where we picked
Speaker 1: up a surfboard and we walked across the road to
Speaker 1: the beach.
Speaker 3: We used to surf for an hour. Mate, I was
Speaker 3: going to the wrong school.
Speaker 1: We probably dated the same people at some stage.
Speaker 3: Oh god, it's not about you and who you dated.
Speaker 3: Stop always trying to get it back to you.
Speaker 1: So do you take an inspiration when you started making jury?
Speaker 1: Did it come from Port McGrath, from that like idyllic
Speaker 1: beachside town.
Speaker 2: Not so much that I don't think the creative inspiration.
Speaker 2: My mom put me into beating classes in our local
Speaker 2: craft store back there when I was eleven, so I
Speaker 2: was handmaking jewel I learned the basis of jewey back
Speaker 2: then as a kid. And then my mom and dad
Speaker 2: always had small businesses. So my mum had a store
Speaker 2: opposite McDonald's there which is called Near Perfect, which is
Speaker 2: our factory seconds, and she let me have my little
Speaker 2: jewelry stand set up there when I was, you know,
Speaker 2: twelve years old. So i've kind of, I guess the
Speaker 2: entrepreneurialism kind of was learnt from my parents and small businesses.
Speaker 2: And I think that, like I said before, that kind
Speaker 2: of isolation. I'm also an only child, so I think
Speaker 2: you naturally somehow have to be creative in that realm.
Speaker 2: So I think the creativity and how big that I
Speaker 2: would think, and how crazy of a journey my mind
Speaker 2: would go on sometimes in creative wise, I think has
Speaker 2: been a huge part of my journey.
Speaker 3: Yeah I'm jumping or well ahead huge Okay, so a
Speaker 3: few years in the future. But something that I have
Speaker 3: always found really inspirational from what you created was your
Speaker 3: Bahemian Buddo ring and the fact that it became this
Speaker 3: cult staple and a collectible atom. And I was always curious,
Speaker 3: is this something that was strategically implemented or is it
Speaker 3: something more that just happened by happy chance and happy circumstance,
Speaker 3: and then you were like, hey, I'm onto a good
Speaker 3: thing here and we know what to make out of it.
Speaker 2: It's a great question because usually people like, you know,
Speaker 2: how do you get your products on celebrities? But I
Speaker 2: think there's such a dichotomy to celebrity placement, so especially
Speaker 2: with jewelry, so the products, you know, is so small
Speaker 2: or secondary to the apparel. You need to firstly be
Speaker 2: able to get it into the hands of the celebrity
Speaker 2: or the stylus. Then the celebrity has to be you know,
Speaker 2: hot at that minute, being like they've got a movie
Speaker 2: out or something's going on that they're in the press.
Speaker 2: If it's a ring, it has to be turned around
Speaker 2: the right way. If it's earrings. How it can't becover.
Speaker 2: There's so many things that can go right or wrong.
Speaker 2: So that's just like getting a photo of on the celebrity.
Speaker 2: The second thing is once it hits, once you get
Speaker 2: the image of it, it's only good if you've got
Speaker 2: only good for you as a business if you've got
Speaker 2: product in the warehouse, because people are they want it now.
Speaker 2: So for us, and the placement that I think really
Speaker 2: skyrocketed the bohemim Batto for us was the Eva Mendez
Speaker 2: placement and it was completely unplanned, like we were doing
Speaker 2: seventy SKUs, so seventy styles per collection. At that point,
Speaker 2: there was only four collections a year. At our people
Speaker 2: doing twenty collections a year, And I just designed it
Speaker 2: like any other piece and just as a segway. But
Speaker 2: I think with business, you know, everyone's like, oh, it's
Speaker 2: a creative company, or it's a design company. Design and
Speaker 2: creative was the smallest division within our company, like your
Speaker 2: very warehouse and logistics heavy finance was a big division.
Speaker 2: So I was kind of, you know, churning through these
Speaker 2: designs to meet these SKU counts. And it is a
Speaker 2: matrix that you're feeling when you're designing to kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, fill out these collections. So I just kind
Speaker 2: of put it in. We were working with a PR
Speaker 2: agent in the States at the time who knew Rachel
Speaker 2: Zoe the style list, and Rachel was working with Eva,
Speaker 2: so she placed it there and then we had this
Speaker 2: placement and it just went berserk. But it was kind
Speaker 2: of a the stars aligned with it because we got
Speaker 2: this great photo. Eva had just done a stint in rehab,
Speaker 2: so she just come out of rehabit. It was her
Speaker 2: first event, so everyone wanted a photo of her, which is,
Speaker 2: you know, not an ideal thing. You know, she was
Speaker 2: very photographed. The ring looked great on her. We had
Speaker 2: stock somehow, which was very well because usually you give
Speaker 2: product out in advance of having stock in the warehouse.
Speaker 2: Everything aligned and then we're like, wow, that sold out
Speaker 2: in like twenty four hours. Let's do it in another
Speaker 2: color and another color, and in the end it came
Speaker 2: in three hundred and sixty six colorways. People were collecting them,
Speaker 2: like one lady owns nearly two hundred and sixty year.
Speaker 1: I had to be honest. It was sort of the
Speaker 1: go to present when I was that age.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, all my.
Speaker 3: Friends would just buy each other.
Speaker 2: Those presents well, when we closed, we did in a
Speaker 2: mini style, so we in the six month lead up
Speaker 2: to the closure, we did one more collection of them
Speaker 2: and they just they were selling out within minutes and
Speaker 2: then that'd end up on EVA Like it was even
Speaker 2: to me. Now you know, we had that sku in
Speaker 2: our business for ten years. We sold over one million
Speaker 2: of them in over five different tiers. So there was
Speaker 2: the entry price point and went all the way up
Speaker 2: depending what stones and things we'd use. But it was
Speaker 2: the backbone of our business. It never once left our
Speaker 2: best sellers list.
Speaker 3: For me, and coming from a jury background, for me,
Speaker 3: that was so incredible and so inspiring. And I thought, now,
Speaker 3: did you do this strategically or I thought maybe it's
Speaker 3: just one of those things where you get lucky by chance.
Speaker 3: And so to hear that, it's amazing.
Speaker 2: And it's I mean, if I if you could do
Speaker 2: that by strategic I would, but I don't even know
Speaker 2: if you can do it without you know, it was
Speaker 2: we couldn't have even planned.
Speaker 3: The stars just aligned, Yeah they did.
Speaker 1: And speaking of the celebrities, so was there ever a
Speaker 1: celebrity that you saw wearing one of your pieces where
Speaker 1: you were just like, what, I.
Speaker 2: Can't believe this, I mean, all of them. It still
Speaker 2: blows my mind.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: When we actually had this bag, we did a little
Speaker 2: collection of clutches with jewelry pendants on them and we
Speaker 2: sent them out to you know, giftelebrities and stylists in
Speaker 2: the States, and then about a year less so you
Speaker 2: kind of like there's a life cycle on it. When
Speaker 2: you gift product're kind of like, alright, in the next
Speaker 2: three months, we'll keep an eye on photos to see
Speaker 2: if they were And then so after about a year,
Speaker 2: Beyonce showed up carrying it and I was just it
Speaker 2: was it just literally blew my mind. Her and Jason
Speaker 2: they used to photograph and they went out on their
Speaker 2: date nights on her Instagram, and then she was just
Speaker 2: there holding it. And so it's another thing where you
Speaker 2: could have every aspiration of wanting to dress a certain
Speaker 2: celebrity and then it just it just kind of happened.
Speaker 2: So yeah, and then we had Taylor Swift on the
Speaker 2: cover of seventeen magazine. But before she was massive and
Speaker 2: I'm a huge Shareless Swift fan now. At the time,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, this new emerging artist and now
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my god, that was incredible. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I've seen her, yeah three times in concerts. Samantha Willis
Speaker 3: was so much more than just jewelry. It was a
Speaker 3: cult brand, and it was storytelling at its heart, and
Speaker 3: it was you. What was the most challenging part of
Speaker 3: being held up as an inspiration?
Speaker 2: You guys are making me really emotional today. It was
Speaker 2: a beautiful reflection.
Speaker 3: We are very emotional women. True.
Speaker 2: That's a very lovely way to say it. Thank you, Sorry,
Speaker 2: What was the quest.
Speaker 3: You're telling you? How wonderful? What was the most difficult
Speaker 3: part of what is the most difficult part of being
Speaker 3: held up as being an inspiration?
Speaker 2: I think when you have a brand that you're so
Speaker 2: modestly named after yourself at twenty one years of age.
Speaker 3: I do also like that you used to model for
Speaker 3: your brand as well afford to pay.
Speaker 2: So I was like, oh, give this a crack.
Speaker 3: I had your catalogs and I was like, she could
Speaker 3: do it everything.
Speaker 2: You know, I couldn't afford to the paid one. I
Speaker 2: think when you have a brand that is your name,
Speaker 2: it naturally is the DNA of you, and it has
Speaker 2: to tell your story because if not, you're not telling
Speaker 2: authentic stories. So I think the hardest part about that
Speaker 2: is is the duality of what you then share with
Speaker 2: yourself or share with people verse what you keep yourself
Speaker 2: versus what you have to be transparent with and things
Speaker 2: like that. It's really so An example is people in
Speaker 2: the office when they felt we'd calling me some out
Speaker 2: of the wills because they're like, no, that's a brand name.
Speaker 2: So that's how I got the name s W because
Speaker 2: they needed to differentiate, because you do become so infused
Speaker 2: in that way. I don't know. I think the rest
Speaker 2: is like, it's not difficult if if you're being truly authentic.
Speaker 2: If you're posting something being like does it sound authentic,
Speaker 2: then it's probably not.
Speaker 3: Well. I think that also comes back to your Instagram
Speaker 3: as well. You use that as a very authentic channel
Speaker 3: to not only have the communication of what the brand
Speaker 3: Samantha Will's was, but also for what you stand for.
Speaker 3: How are you using that now moving forward since you're
Speaker 3: moving away from jewelry into this personal brand space.
Speaker 2: Well, I say everyone is a brand, whether you've got
Speaker 2: a product or a business. Like if you've got an
Speaker 2: Instagram feed, you're a publisher. Your CEO of brand. You think,
Speaker 2: when we know better, we do better. And as you
Speaker 2: evolve as a person, you start to evolve your thought
Speaker 2: process and what was once acceptable to you no longer
Speaker 2: becomes that. So you can kind of see over my
Speaker 2: Instagram and I think I've tried to be very vulnerable
Speaker 2: with that, where I used to post outfits in a
Speaker 2: mirror that I had in my house, I know the one,
Speaker 2: you know, So I would post it, and you know,
Speaker 2: I was doing it to kind of show how I
Speaker 2: was starting. I had to find a way to show
Speaker 2: how I was wearing the jewelry in a consistent basis,
Speaker 2: and then then they get lots of likes, but the
Speaker 2: reality was, you know, I was being loan a lot
Speaker 2: of the clothe some of the closure of mind, but
Speaker 2: a lot of them were loans. I'm a creative director,
Speaker 2: so I know how a lighter shot like it just
Speaker 2: wasn't like if people are looking at that, going why
Speaker 2: don't I have those type of clothesal, why doesn't don't
Speaker 2: myself is in the mirror look like that. It's because
Speaker 2: you know, I know professional lighting, and I know all
Speaker 2: these things and so and the reason I actually took
Speaker 2: all of those off my Instagram is when I was
Speaker 2: watching the Royal wedding of Meghan and Harry and the
Speaker 2: commentary was, I can't believe that Kate's were in the
Speaker 2: same dress twice, like she's throwing shade to Meghan and
Speaker 2: all this, and I was just like, that is so ridiculous.
Speaker 2: And then I thought about it. I'm like, wait, maybe
Speaker 2: I'm adding to that problem by posting these outfits once
Speaker 2: and it's the intention wasn't for that, but it was,
Speaker 2: you know, about the jewelry. But when I step back,
Speaker 2: I'm like, hang on, no, you're perpetuating that problem. So
Speaker 2: I was just like enough, you know you, as I said,
Speaker 2: once you have that realization, it's then the responsibility to
Speaker 2: do something about it.
Speaker 3: People do connect with you as a person. You have
Speaker 3: more to communicate now as an individual than just as
Speaker 3: a brand that's connected to a product.
Speaker 2: Definitely, I think more to communicate. But I think there
Speaker 2: was a time when Instagram came out and aspiration was
Speaker 2: the word rather than inspiration. And I still don't I
Speaker 2: don't use that word. I don't use word inspiration as
Speaker 2: associated to myself. But I think you know, you look
Speaker 2: at and it was it was it was this new
Speaker 2: platform that was kind of this very polar The whole
Speaker 2: thing was around filters, so you know, it was around that.
Speaker 2: But I think now people are just oversaturated with that
Speaker 2: kind of messaging, Like people want connection.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The best brands of female brands, I think are when
Speaker 2: women can when it can alleviate a pain point for
Speaker 2: a person. So if that means that something me is
Speaker 2: seeing something on your Instagram makes me feel connected to you,
Speaker 2: then that's that's the goal in that authenticity space.
Speaker 1: We still have a long way to go, I think
Speaker 1: in getting everybody to a point where you don't have
Speaker 1: to feel ashamed to put a photo up that isn't filtered,
Speaker 1: isn't photoshop, doesn't have perfect lighting like I literally I
Speaker 1: just had when I had a facial today, you look great, thanks,
Speaker 1: But I had this peel as well, just giving you
Speaker 1: all my info here, And I took a selfie of
Speaker 1: my skin because it looked so good, and I went
Speaker 1: to put it on Instagram, no makeup at all, no filter, nothing,
Speaker 1: The lining wasn't even great, and I put it on.
Speaker 1: I went to post it and oh, I can't post
Speaker 1: that I look gross, And then I deleted it for
Speaker 1: one second and then I thought, how ridiculous that I
Speaker 1: just said, I can't put this up, so I put
Speaker 1: it back up. But just that second of insecurity that
Speaker 1: someone will judge you for being so raw made me
Speaker 1: feel sick.
Speaker 3: I guess it's also comes down to personal development and
Speaker 3: getting to a point where actually it doesn't matter what
Speaker 3: other people think, and being true and authentic to yourself.
Speaker 3: And I think that that's part of everyone's own personal
Speaker 3: journey and getting there. And you have definitely come closer
Speaker 3: to what it is that you're trying to achieve on
Speaker 3: social media, and I just I really think that that's
Speaker 3: something that is now very aspirational and inspirational at the
Speaker 3: same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, And I think firstly, I think everyone thinks that.
Speaker 2: I don't think it's isolated issue whatsoever. So I think
Speaker 2: that and you're right, it does come down to ourselves.
Speaker 2: And I think the other thing is like other people
Speaker 2: really don't give a ship, Like we're so focused on
Speaker 2: like what is people going to think about me? And
Speaker 2: everyone's just I'm just like, no one's thinking about you,
Speaker 2: like no one really cares. You sit there and be
Speaker 2: like what field looks all what? And it was just
Speaker 2: like no one really cares.
Speaker 1: So it's it's girl straight past you and then you've gone.
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, and although probably like it looks great,
Speaker 2: like I don't know. I think we spend so much
Speaker 2: time worried about the response from other people, and everyone's
Speaker 2: just so worried about themselves. So it's it's yeah, it's
Speaker 2: a bigger deal than we think it is. The skin
Speaker 2: looks great. I'd post it for sure.
Speaker 1: I mean, I have makeup on Now.
Speaker 3: Were there ever one defining moment where you sat back
Speaker 3: in your career and thought, holy shit, I have made it.
Speaker 2: No, that's not because I think once you think that
Speaker 2: your career is done kind of thing. And I also like,
Speaker 2: I don't think there ever is an end point, because
Speaker 2: if there is, then you've probably been quite lazy in
Speaker 2: your dreaming. I guess I think that you know. The
Speaker 2: question I do get asked similar to that is, you know,
Speaker 2: when you made it, you know it was life great
Speaker 2: kind of thing. I was like, No, it's when you're
Speaker 2: in startup. The problems are just big and you don't
Speaker 2: really know how to you know, tackle them, and it
Speaker 2: could be probably a financial issue. And the more so
Speaker 2: then once you take finances out of it and you're like,
Speaker 2: all right, now we're a very financially viable business. But
Speaker 2: the problems just get bigger. You just get more equipped
Speaker 2: to be able to deal with them. Sure, so it's
Speaker 2: never that it goes away. I think you just mature
Speaker 2: and you know a lot more. I think that there's
Speaker 2: definitely been times where things have happened and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I couldn't have even dreamt that we could do that.
Speaker 2: So I think that's probably the closest answer I can
Speaker 2: give to have you made it. I'm like I never
Speaker 2: thought that, but I was like, wow, like this is
Speaker 2: bigger than I could have ever thought.
Speaker 3: I think as things grow as well, you then have
Speaker 3: the problems that occur. Have such a higher level of
Speaker 3: responsibility because you're responsible for so many people, and so
Speaker 3: sometimes it's almost like ignorance is bliss that gets you
Speaker 3: through things. That stuff you're like, oh, I can do that,
Speaker 3: and then as you become more aware of what's at stake,
Speaker 3: it's almost like you can be less inclined to take risks.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I look back when I was twenty one and
Speaker 2: started the business, Everyone's like, oh, you're so brave. I
Speaker 2: was like no, I was naive, I had no idea,
Speaker 2: and I kind of envy twenty one year old mindset
Speaker 2: me because I'm so fearful of so many things because
Speaker 2: I know so much more now. So the more you know,
Speaker 2: the more you know, you kind of think. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's definitely that, and I think that is
Speaker 2: a good thing when you're likely, you know, your responsibility
Speaker 2: is to other people's livelihood. Absolutely, there's a responsibility there.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a different mindset.
Speaker 1: So on the other end of the spectrum, I mean,
Speaker 1: you've said that there was never this moment where you're like, yes,
Speaker 1: I've made it. But was there a moment that you
Speaker 1: just thought I can't do it. I'm going to give up,
Speaker 1: it's too hard. I have heard you say before that
Speaker 1: you don't like to be called an overnight success because
Speaker 1: you put in the hardyards. So was there ever this
Speaker 1: time where you thought I can't do it anymore? Yes?
Speaker 2: Every day.
Speaker 3: I love this.
Speaker 2: This is now a ten minute podcast, seen question. I
Speaker 2: love it absolutely, Yes, I mean, and so many times
Speaker 2: throughout the journey up until the day that I did
Speaker 2: decide to close. I think at the start, as I said,
Speaker 2: you're like, you wear all hats, you know, you're the
Speaker 2: cleaner and the designer and the marketer and all these things,
Speaker 2: and it just becomes so overwhelming and you just don't
Speaker 2: know when you're starting out. It's not that you know
Speaker 2: when you're doing it wrong. You just don't know. So
Speaker 2: you're kind of like trading water, just kind of learning
Speaker 2: along the way other times throughout I think, you know,
Speaker 2: at the end of by the fifteen year mark, I
Speaker 2: designed over twelve thousand pieces of jewelry, so I guess
Speaker 2: every like five thousand pieces, I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: more jewelry kind of things, and that kind of started
Speaker 2: to wear on me. But I think I just kind
Speaker 2: of accepted it as like not creative block, but creative
Speaker 2: exhaustion in a way. And I'm like, all right, well,
Speaker 2: you know that you're producing, as I said, up to
Speaker 2: twenty collections a year at one point, so it's just
Speaker 2: part of it, definitely around production and sourcing. That's a
Speaker 2: huge thing where I'm like, do we really have to
Speaker 2: go through this again? So it's all the same things
Speaker 2: that just repeat and probably likes a year on the
Speaker 2: dot of every like collection, I'd have the same reaction,
Speaker 2: but it just kind of, yeah, flowed with it.
Speaker 1: Do you think that at one point, like now, after
Speaker 1: fifteen years, after you're saying, every year came around and
Speaker 1: I just thought, I don't have to I can't do
Speaker 1: this again. It became too much of work and less
Speaker 1: of passion. Is that how you found I.
Speaker 2: Think at one level, yes, on a very creative front.
Speaker 2: But I think over the years, every time i'd think that,
Speaker 2: I'd always go back to, well, what else do you
Speaker 2: want to do? In the answer was nothing like I
Speaker 2: love this. So I think I think it's okay to
Speaker 2: have days where you don't. You're not like celebrating, you
Speaker 2: know this our entrepreneurial journey, and I think that they
Speaker 2: are actually quite common days. I think in the end
Speaker 2: that wasn't the reason I decided to close. I decided
Speaker 2: to close because for personal reason, for two reasons. One
Speaker 2: that I felt the brand of a fifteen years had
Speaker 2: done everything and more that we'd wanted it to, and
Speaker 2: I think that continuing to push that it wasn't really
Speaker 2: honoring the legacy. I want to take kind of a
Speaker 2: leaf out of the Seinfeld book and close while we're
Speaker 2: on a high. And so many people had touched the
Speaker 2: brand over those years, like hundreds and hundreds of people,
Speaker 2: and I think all the work that they had done
Speaker 2: on it meant was important to so many people. So
Speaker 2: I wanted to kind of, you know, round it out
Speaker 2: at fifteen years for a legacy perspective and from a
Speaker 2: personal perspective. You know, I was a basing. I am
Speaker 2: based between New York and Sydney, but for nine of
Speaker 2: those years I was six weeks New York, ten days
Speaker 2: Sydney consistently. So by the time I had done that
Speaker 2: hundredth flight between Sydney and JFK, it was you know,
Speaker 2: when I added it up, and that's not including into
Speaker 2: production houses in China and India over to our European officers.
Speaker 2: That was just that leg and it just was over
Speaker 2: three and three months without my feet on the ground.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, how can you be grounded in life
Speaker 2: when your feet physically aren't on the planet.
Speaker 3: And I hope you had frequent flyers.
Speaker 1: She had her seat when I get on an then
Speaker 1: corner so like, oh, I welcome back to I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: that's great, they know my name.
Speaker 2: And then after I'm like, that's really bad there.
Speaker 3: I think it's such an important message what you said
Speaker 3: before about how when you're an entrepreneur, when you're running
Speaker 3: your own business, people think that you're just living your dream,
Speaker 3: but it's still a job, and especially over the years,
Speaker 3: it does bear on you and there are days where
Speaker 3: you have to sit back and go, Okay, well, I
Speaker 3: don't really want to work today, right, But that doesn't
Speaker 3: take away from the fact that we are very privileged
Speaker 3: to be able to still absolutely do a job that
Speaker 3: we love and it wouldn't be work. It just wouldn't
Speaker 3: be work if you were going there every single day
Speaker 3: going whoo, well, I think, you know, there are times
Speaker 3: where I hate my job, but I actually love it,
Speaker 3: and I feel so privileged that I get to run
Speaker 3: my own business.
Speaker 1: And you're not talking about the podcast, and there's too
Speaker 1: sometimes no, but I think one can't.
Speaker 2: Exist without the other. Like if it was just all roses,
Speaker 2: I'd probably my feedback would be like, you're probably not
Speaker 2: pushing the boundaries enough. And you know, you appreciate things
Speaker 2: because of the bad days, and that shows you how
Speaker 2: good the good days are. You know, Jewelry was my
Speaker 2: hobby and then and I turn that into a very
Speaker 2: very big commercial venture. But there's this thing now where
Speaker 2: someone's good at something you're like, oh, you should sell that,
Speaker 2: and it's like, you don't. You don't have to monetize
Speaker 2: everything that you love because in the end it doesn't
Speaker 2: not that I hate jewelry by any means, but it
Speaker 2: became you know, I was designing to a matrix. It
Speaker 2: wasn't actually that creative when you hit that type of
Speaker 2: level commercial requirement. So I think to follow curiosities, I
Speaker 2: think is a big thing these days, and it doesn't
Speaker 2: actually have to mean that you monetize it.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I think that we do, though, live in a
Speaker 3: society where if you do have any sort of skill set,
Speaker 3: people like, oh, you could work for yourself, you could
Speaker 3: run your own business. But there's so many more facets
Speaker 3: of running a business that doesn't just come down to
Speaker 3: being creative or making something, and you've got to be
Speaker 3: passionate about all those other things absolutely as well to
Speaker 3: be able to do it successfully. And I think that's
Speaker 3: why so many people try and start business ventures, but
Speaker 3: then they fail because in essence, they're really passionate about
Speaker 3: their hobby, but they're not passionate about business.
Speaker 2: They're not passion about run a P and L and
Speaker 2: a warehouse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, is a very special thing, specialized thing, passionately, And.
Speaker 2: I say, find people who are good at the things
Speaker 2: you are not. And I think when I found my
Speaker 2: business partner three years in, you know, I'd gotten myself
Speaker 2: into eighty thousand dollars debt, but I built this like
Speaker 2: very well known brand even at that so I knew
Speaker 2: how to build a brand, but did not know how
Speaker 2: to run a business. And the success of the brand
Speaker 2: was meeting him, and he really commercialized the back end
Speaker 2: and it then allowed me to do what I was
Speaker 2: really good at.
Speaker 3: So you did.
Speaker 1: Actually, this is super interesting. You did go from eighty
Speaker 1: thousand dollars in debt to turning over your first million
Speaker 1: in two years?
Speaker 2: Was it in our first year?
Speaker 3: Was the year?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: First year?
Speaker 1: Absolutely incredible? How was there I'm not going to say
Speaker 1: was there a secret? But was there a secret?
Speaker 3: I mean, what if there was?
Speaker 2: I really didn't know it. But what changed all of
Speaker 2: a sudden, First and foremost, it was getting my business
Speaker 2: partner on board because my mind just didn't think in numbers.
Speaker 2: You know, at twenty three, I really did not know
Speaker 2: how to run a business at all, and it wasn't
Speaker 2: It's kind of like you need I say, business is
Speaker 2: what and brand is why. See business is your product,
Speaker 2: it's the P and L. But why you do it
Speaker 2: is the brand. And I was doing it completely out
Speaker 2: of passion.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: It started on my dining table. But if I hadn't
Speaker 2: had a business structure around it, I'd still be on
Speaker 2: my dining table making jewely till all hours of the morning.
Speaker 2: So I think that's the first foundation of it, and
Speaker 2: after that there's many different factors. You know, Celebrity was
Speaker 2: a huge part for us, but doesn't mean it's right
Speaker 2: for every brand. But I think having that commercial and
Speaker 2: creative and where that meets. And that's assuming you want
Speaker 2: a commercial, creative business. A lot of people I say that,
Speaker 2: you know, if you're on the art, if you're a true,
Speaker 2: true artist, and you're like, I'm not selling out for
Speaker 2: anything kind of thing. You know, I'm happy to sleep
Speaker 2: on a friend's couch. It's all about the art. Like,
Speaker 2: that's not me. I didn't barely finish high school. I
Speaker 2: didn't go to a design college. I'm like, no, how
Speaker 2: do we tell a story? I start at the end,
Speaker 2: I'm like, how do we tell this story and reach
Speaker 2: a huge amount of people by telling stories? And then
Speaker 2: what do we need to fill that pipeline. Oh, okay,
Speaker 2: it's a product and it's jewelry, and here's how you
Speaker 2: make it, and here's how you produce it, and kind
Speaker 2: of you know, working backwards that way, and that requires
Speaker 2: a commercial framework.
Speaker 3: But it's amazing that you've managed to maintain that and
Speaker 3: still keep authenticity to the brand and still keep storytelling,
Speaker 3: because I think that one of the things that I've
Speaker 3: loved so much about Samantha Will's as a brand is
Speaker 3: that even though you are massive and we're in every
Speaker 3: single shop that there was and department stores, the story
Speaker 3: behind it, though, still seemed very relatable.
Speaker 2: It's interesting you say and thank you we worked. That
Speaker 2: was the goal, And I think the biggest mistake I
Speaker 2: made in business was when I moved over to the
Speaker 2: States in twenty ten. So we're getting a huge amount
Speaker 2: of celebrity placements, and we're getting a lot of American
Speaker 2: retailers calling so opportunities Sickly, we're sending all these productiver
Speaker 2: and we're like, hey, we need someone on the ground
Speaker 2: over there to see where the brand's actually being placed.
Speaker 2: So I went over there. I was twenty eight. It
Speaker 2: was the first time I had a disposable income. We
Speaker 2: were very successful in Australia by that point, first time
Speaker 2: I'd lived out of Australia, and I just got stars
Speaker 2: in my eyes. I was like, this is amazing. All
Speaker 2: these brands are creative energy. It was just brilliant. And
Speaker 2: I think, as you know, brand builders and as creative directors,
Speaker 2: we can have every ideal of wanting our brand to
Speaker 2: sit at a certain place in the market, so we
Speaker 2: can be like, all right, you know, I want to
Speaker 2: be a thousand known as a thousand dollar necklace band.
Speaker 2: I only want to be in vogue and being Barney's
Speaker 2: and Bergdorf's kind of thing. But at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, the market tells you where your brand sits.
Speaker 2: So if the marketplace is buying one hundred and twenty
Speaker 2: dollars bracelet sets and that's your biggest selling skew, then
Speaker 2: you're literally one hundred and twenty dollars bracelet set brand,
Speaker 2: which is fine, But if you're trying to continually talk
Speaker 2: to someone that you want to be talking to who's
Speaker 2: not listening to you, but you know all the people
Speaker 2: that are listening to you, you know you're not talking
Speaker 2: to them anymore. So I went over to the States,
Speaker 2: I was like, no, I want the cemunt Liwi's brain
Speaker 2: to sit a tier to a tier and a half higher.
Speaker 2: So in Australia we were very successful. We had, you know,
Speaker 2: were known as a bohemian brand. It was very layering,
Speaker 2: burnished metals, lots of turquoise, lots of color, statement size.
Speaker 2: And I went over to the States. I was like, nope, this,
Speaker 2: we're not doing turquoise anymore. We're doing only polish metals.
Speaker 2: Everything's minimal. We're doing no layering. And you know what
Speaker 2: the Bondo market story, that's not very that's not glamorous
Speaker 2: dining room. Oh that's not so. I stripped every piece
Speaker 2: of authenticity out of our story. I changed the design
Speaker 2: language within one season and shockingly not so. It didn't work.
Speaker 2: And we'd come off the back of such a successful
Speaker 2: season that retailers and the like, all right, well we're
Speaker 2: going to give you another twenty percent extra budshirt, so
Speaker 2: they kind of buying really heavily. It didn't sell through
Speaker 2: for them. The consumer became engage because my story became
Speaker 2: everything you just spoke about became you know, so inauthentic
Speaker 2: and no one that well, it's like jewelry like it was,
Speaker 2: there was nothing exciting about it. And then my team
Speaker 2: lost faith in me because you know, I was a
Speaker 2: creative director that wasn't directing, And it was a real
Speaker 2: I call it a come to Jesus moment where I
Speaker 2: had to really go back and sit with the girl
Speaker 2: at the Bondo Market's table and ask her why did
Speaker 2: you start this business in the first place? And I
Speaker 2: picture it now like sitting in the demise of like
Speaker 2: this like demolished kind of construction site and having to
Speaker 2: pick up the pieces of what we're going to move
Speaker 2: forward with, but also leaving behind the ego and the
Speaker 2: you know, imposter syndrome and all these things that I
Speaker 2: allowed to get in conversation with each other for far
Speaker 2: too long and go back to the authenticity. And it
Speaker 2: took a long time to rebuild that. So it's definitely
Speaker 2: the biggest, our, biggest offering I think as a brain
Speaker 2: was our authenticity, and it was also my biggest mistake
Speaker 2: to step anyway away from that.
Speaker 3: Storytelling is such an important part of brand absolutely, and
Speaker 3: once you lose that, it just becomes generic. People buy
Speaker 3: into the story and they buy into you as a person,
Speaker 3: and that's why there's this continued legacy that people want
Speaker 3: to know what it is that you're doing now because
Speaker 3: you were inextricable from the brand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the thing with storytelling is, you know,
Speaker 2: I said, people can replicate your product, and they can
Speaker 2: replicate your packaging, but if you are telling an authentic story,
Speaker 2: it cannot be replicated. Is the one thing that makes
Speaker 2: you unique in this market. And I think it's so
Speaker 2: important and I don't think it's spoken about enough actually,
Speaker 2: because yeah, it's businesses. As I said, business is what,
Speaker 2: but your story is why you're doing it.
Speaker 1: And you did recently decide to walk away from the
Speaker 1: brand when it was so successful commercially.
Speaker 3: Still talk us through that well.
Speaker 2: I think, as you said before, Laura El, for me
Speaker 2: to walk away from it was a really big ask
Speaker 2: and it's a long journey to I think rename a brand,
Speaker 2: and my heart wasn't built in a way where I
Speaker 2: could kind of sell the brand off and just watch
Speaker 2: what someone else did with this amount that will's business.
Speaker 2: Too many people had put their heart and soul into it,
Speaker 2: so selling wasn't an option to me. And I think
Speaker 2: I got to the point where you know, I'd done
Speaker 2: so many of those flights and I don't know. I
Speaker 2: just wanted to do something new and I did. I
Speaker 2: didn't know what that was. And so my business partner
Speaker 2: and I send each other for emails, you that have
Speaker 2: nothing to do with the numbers or the P and L,
Speaker 2: and he'd sent me this email and he said the
Speaker 2: businesses at are crossroads. And essentially what the email was
Speaker 2: saying was, you know, we need I know that you
Speaker 2: know you don't want to be traveling as much, and
Speaker 2: maybe we can look to get an head designer and
Speaker 2: replace you as head designer, or you know, tell me
Speaker 2: what you want to do personally and we'll build the
Speaker 2: business around that. And I kind of I opened this
Speaker 2: email and I was at a meditation retreat in upstate
Speaker 2: New York at the time, and I had my phone
Speaker 2: in one hand and it said the business at a crossroads.
Speaker 2: And I looked up and I was actually standing at
Speaker 2: a physical crossroads on the campus, and I just put
Speaker 2: my hand on my heart and I just heard this voice.
Speaker 2: And people are going to think this is so will
Speaker 2: and crazy, but I swear to God like I said
Speaker 2: this voice, and I was like, it's time to and
Speaker 2: it was the calmest almost like a whisper, but like
Speaker 2: an assertive whisper. I was like, Okay, it's time to close.
Speaker 2: And I stood at that crosses and I've got a
Speaker 2: photo of it on my phone, which I revert back
Speaker 2: too often, and it kind of so the right side
Speaker 2: of the brain is the creative, you know, intuitive side,
Speaker 2: and the left side is the more logistics and analytical,
Speaker 2: and the right side of the crossroads was kind of
Speaker 2: this beautiful like bark chip through a kind of veggie garden.
Speaker 2: And then the left crossroad went around campus. It was
Speaker 2: the more the tarmac kind of road that went around campus.
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, it's time to follow you
Speaker 2: intuition and see, you know, see what happens. And I
Speaker 2: think until you close a door, I know, specifically as
Speaker 2: a creative person, until you close a door, you can't
Speaker 2: allow new ideas to arrive to you. So that was
Speaker 2: the moment that I decided, and I didn't tell a
Speaker 2: soul for two weeks. I kind of woke up every
Speaker 2: day pretending that I'd already done it to myself because
Speaker 2: I woke up and been like, was said to myself,
Speaker 2: you don't have a company. Now, how does it feel?
Speaker 2: I didn't say, what do you think about it? I
Speaker 2: didn't know, because thinking and feeling very very different things.
Speaker 2: And every morning I wake up, I said it, you know,
Speaker 2: it feels right, And so then we started to implement
Speaker 2: that closure process.
Speaker 1: I've just got goosebumps from that story because you can
Speaker 1: you tell it with so much truth in your eyes.
Speaker 1: I know you think people think that's crazy. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's crazy because I'm really big personally on the
Speaker 1: universe and asking it for what you need. I did
Speaker 1: actually read that you said that the universe always has
Speaker 1: three answers, and that is yes, not right now, or
Speaker 1: I have something better in.
Speaker 3: Store for you. Absolutely, So do you do you think
Speaker 3: that that is?
Speaker 1: Those three statements can relate to any situation. Is that
Speaker 1: how you look at it, Every situation can go into
Speaker 1: three categories?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 2: I think that. I think we're always being guided, and
Speaker 2: whether that is whatever your belief is in a power
Speaker 2: higher than yourself, whether that is God, whether that is religion,
Speaker 2: whether that is universe nature, whatever it is. I think
Speaker 2: we're always being guided, but we get so focused on
Speaker 2: the outcome that we want. So it's this tiny little
Speaker 2: pin hole of an hour come that we think. And
Speaker 2: that's what I was saying before when he said did
Speaker 2: you have a Oh, I made it success and I
Speaker 2: couldn't even dream of what So if the brand hadn't
Speaker 2: been what I wanted, we would have had one retail
Speaker 2: store at Bondai, probably near Bondai Market. So once we
Speaker 2: surrender what we think we need, we really then can
Speaker 2: sit and start to see what's unfolding around us. And
Speaker 2: I like an universal guidance to listening to your own
Speaker 2: internal intuition and matching it with external awareness. And that
Speaker 2: Crossroads moment was completely a joining of the two. And
Speaker 2: the other part of that story is I walked back
Speaker 2: to my cabin that night and I kind of I
Speaker 2: looked up and I said, to the universe, like this
Speaker 2: affects at a lot of people, please give me a
Speaker 2: sign that this is the right thing to do. And
Speaker 2: so I went into the bookstore. I was just kind
Speaker 2: of like looking around, and I was really drawn to
Speaker 2: this book, which was Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic, and in
Speaker 2: it she interviews singer songwriter Tom Waits and he said,
Speaker 2: you know, as artists, we take ourselves so seriously when
Speaker 2: all I'm really doing as a songwriter is creating jewelry
Speaker 2: for the inside of people's minds. And I'd been offered
Speaker 2: a few book deals by this point. I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm not a writer. I'm not a writer. I can't write.
Speaker 2: And I was like, oh wait, maybe I just need
Speaker 2: to be making jewelry for the inside of people's minds.
Speaker 2: And I was like, writing needs to be my next journey.
Speaker 3: Well, we were going to ask about your new venture
Speaker 3: and your business memoir that you're writing. Who is the
Speaker 3: person that you want reading this book?
Speaker 2: I think, Well, the book essentially parallels the journey of
Speaker 2: the brand, good and bad, and also parallels that against
Speaker 2: my personal life and the personal sacrifices or wins and
Speaker 2: losses that might not have been seen so publicly. So
Speaker 2: it's I guess, yes, it is a business memoir, and
Speaker 2: anyone looking to start a business or has a business.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of business stuff in there, But essentially
Speaker 2: I think it's written for anyone who's ever thought they're
Speaker 2: on the wrong path. And it kind of goes back
Speaker 2: to that where I say, we hone in so instantly
Speaker 2: be like, how did I end up here? Wyatt? But
Speaker 2: it's really any situation that we're in, if it's not
Speaker 2: going our way, there's a reason for that. And if
Speaker 2: we can let go of the anger and frustration and
Speaker 2: look around, we will see where we're trying to be
Speaker 2: guided to. And I think in writing memoir, in the
Speaker 2: concept of hindsight and retrospect, I can look back on
Speaker 2: these fifteens that I'm running. I'm like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: I remember sitting, you know, crying my eyes out over something,
Speaker 2: and then you know, to be able to write it
Speaker 2: ten years later, you're like, oh, that's why that happened.
Speaker 2: But in the moment, it's, you know, the most devastating
Speaker 2: thing in the world. So I think it's you know,
Speaker 2: it's a bit of business, it's a bit of personal,
Speaker 2: and I just hope it's it's a vulnerable sharing and
Speaker 2: I hope other people see a little bit of their
Speaker 2: stories in it as well.
Speaker 3: We did have a conversation in last week's episode about
Speaker 3: this concept of having it all and what that means
Speaker 3: to people and if it's even possible to have it all,
Speaker 3: And I'd love to get your perspective on what having
Speaker 3: it all means to you.
Speaker 2: I think that the concept of having it all suggests
Speaker 2: we don't have it all right now, And I think
Speaker 2: that if we continually live outside of this present moment,
Speaker 2: that's we're living in anxiety and we're living in this
Speaker 2: future trip of what if I don't get to X,
Speaker 2: Y and Z. So I think in this very moment,
Speaker 2: I like to go back to that practice of yeah,
Speaker 2: right now, we do have it all, and it's unfolding
Speaker 2: exactly as it should be.
Speaker 3: Amen. Yeah, Amen, we were literally our conclusion last week. Yeah.
Speaker 1: We started off with saying, yeah, you can have it all,
Speaker 1: and then when we both sat and thought about it,
Speaker 1: we're like, you know what, you can't. Something has to
Speaker 1: be sacrificed.
Speaker 2: But I think it's like if the traditional have it
Speaker 2: all is I assume is a house baby, and who
Speaker 2: said that, That's what happened exactly. So I think once
Speaker 2: if we're trying to gauge it against saying, we need
Speaker 2: to know what that is. And as I said, it's
Speaker 2: different for everyone, but I think it's such an unrealistic
Speaker 2: and dated concept that we hold on to but we
Speaker 2: don't even really know.
Speaker 1: What it is.
Speaker 3: Trust me, having it all? I eat baby, house job.
Speaker 3: You are just tired. You are tired. I don't even
Speaker 3: have a baby, hope.
Speaker 1: So, Samantha, I don't know if you actually know, but
Speaker 1: we talk a lot about relationships and.
Speaker 2: Love on this podcast, Relliant.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we do believe that.
Speaker 1: Things happen for a reason, but breakups and toxic relationship
Speaker 1: they can have quite a profound effect on you as
Speaker 1: a person and guide you and teach you lessons. I
Speaker 1: did speak last or a few weeks ago about a
Speaker 1: relationship I was in with a sociopath and how that
Speaker 1: got me to where I am today, and then I
Speaker 1: don't regret it, and I do know you have quite
Speaker 1: an interesting breakup story, and I heard you speak about it.
Speaker 1: I think a lorial event. We sort of chatted afterwards,
Speaker 1: but can you, if you feel like telling us, tell
Speaker 1: us a little bit about that relationship and what happened.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I had been in a relationship for three
Speaker 2: years and I think, you know, if I parallel that
Speaker 2: to my business, it was around two thousand and five,
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, and if anyone looking on would be like, oh,
Speaker 2: that's a dream career for you. You got you know,
Speaker 2: named as Yellowgrown creativeal director. You were your profile was
Speaker 2: rising outside of the jewelry stuff, I was on a
Speaker 2: plane every other week, like it looked a dream run
Speaker 2: career wise, and I'd been in a relationship at that
Speaker 2: point for three years, and there was a lot of
Speaker 2: moving parts. The company was you know, going so so well.
Speaker 2: We had everyone in the right place in the team,
Speaker 2: and there was just so many things going on. It
Speaker 2: was almost like a Jenga tower that there was everything
Speaker 2: was holding the other other piece up. But the thing
Speaker 2: with the Jenga tower is once you remove one piece,
Speaker 2: the whole thing comes crashing down. And I found out
Speaker 2: for me, that crashing down was finding out that my
Speaker 2: boyfriend was cheating on me. And you know, the few
Speaker 2: days after, I just I couldn't speak. I couldn't I
Speaker 2: just like completely fell apart us, Like I was operating
Speaker 2: at such a high frequency that this, you know, really
Speaker 2: really flawed me. So my friends would come over and
Speaker 2: get me out of bed and then I'd just you know,
Speaker 2: they changing my sheets. I'd jump back in because I
Speaker 2: just couldn't face what was going on. So that was
Speaker 2: happening to me personally publicly, I had some very big
Speaker 2: commitments that I had to fill and I had to
Speaker 2: go back to Australia and shoot three big campaigns. I
Speaker 2: had to shoot the Yellow Glen campaign, which was a TVC,
Speaker 2: billboard and print campaign was going nationally. I had two
Speaker 2: magazine covers to shoot and they were all locked in
Speaker 2: and I was just a complete mess. But I didn't
Speaker 2: want to let these these clients sound. That was very
Speaker 2: important to me, and so I would set my alarm
Speaker 2: for nineteen minutes before I knew I had to get up,
Speaker 2: and I would just cry. I would just lay on
Speaker 2: the bathroom floor of any random hotel I was staying
Speaker 2: in and just try and breathe. And I was like, Okay,
Speaker 2: if I can get all the tears out before I
Speaker 2: have to be on set, then you know, hopefully the
Speaker 2: day will go a bit smoother. If on set I
Speaker 2: had to fall apart, I'd politely excuse myself and go
Speaker 2: to the bathroom and burst into tears and come back
Speaker 2: and profusely apologize to the makeup artists and keep shooting.
Speaker 1: I could cry right now.
Speaker 2: I feel you, and you know, you know, when you're
Speaker 2: like you in such a fragile seat and the worst
Speaker 2: thing someone can ask you is how are you?
Speaker 3: Because you're just like, oh god, you over at the air. Yeah,
Speaker 3: how did you find out.
Speaker 2: Well, so I found out through I found text messages
Speaker 2: on his phone and so then I kind of went
Speaker 2: and did all the work that I had to do,
Speaker 2: and I came back and I just I knew within
Speaker 2: me I didn't have all the information, and I kind
Speaker 2: of liken it to a pool of you know, when
Speaker 2: you're a little kid, you jump in the pool and
Speaker 2: you're like, I just want to touch the I want
Speaker 2: touch the bottom, and you hold your breath and you
Speaker 2: kind of hover around the middle. You come back and hover.
Speaker 2: So it was kind of hovering around, and I knew
Speaker 2: that finding out all this impot I had just be
Speaker 2: really honest with myself. And that's the thing with honesty
Speaker 2: that the truth gets you instant answers, whether you like
Speaker 2: it or not. So I was like, I need to
Speaker 2: touch the very bottom of this and ask some questions.
Speaker 2: And so I gathered up every piece of courage I
Speaker 2: had within me, and I sat in front of him
Speaker 2: a few weeks after finding out, and I said, how
Speaker 2: long has this affair been going on? And he looked
Speaker 2: at me and he said which one. I said, well,
Speaker 2: how many have there been? And he said at least eight?
Speaker 2: And as abhorrent and as like it even like makes
Speaker 2: my stomach turn now retelling that story. But as as
Speaker 2: abhorrent as that was, it put me to the bottom.
Speaker 2: It was like there was no that was all the information. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you can't go low, Yeah, and you have to you
Speaker 2: have to go to the bottom to move through it.
Speaker 2: And so I sat down there and you know, I
Speaker 2: just describe this darkness and it's kind of like how
Speaker 2: I talked about before I demolish the brain. You've got
Speaker 2: to sit in that rubble and that darkness to be
Speaker 2: able to move forward. As I sat in this darkness
Speaker 2: and I looked around a little bit, and it's I
Speaker 2: kind of like explain it now where you have to
Speaker 2: sit close to what hurts you. Like we try so
Speaker 2: hard to get away from this pain, but once we're
Speaker 2: down there, we can sitit it with it and try
Speaker 2: to understand it is when we start to grow and
Speaker 2: evolve and really take on these lessons for what is
Speaker 2: next on our path. And so you know, I kind
Speaker 2: of went through that healing process which took a long
Speaker 2: time and started to ascend. And for me, that's when
Speaker 2: you start to can bring alchemy to your life and
Speaker 2: you you're so the concept of alchemy is this old
Speaker 2: medieval concept of turning dirty metals into goals. So as
Speaker 2: a jewelry designer, I loved it and I thought, you know,
Speaker 2: down there was it was really dark, but I'm ascending now,
Speaker 2: and for me, the surmount the world's foundation was what
Speaker 2: my alchemy was because I didn't want any woman to
Speaker 2: feel that, you know the duality of small businesses that
Speaker 2: life happens and it can be shipped, and breakups happen
Speaker 2: and things happen, but you know, you still got to
Speaker 2: front up.
Speaker 3: And deal with Amen. Amen, And so I wanted a.
Speaker 2: Place where other women could kind of log on it
Speaker 2: any hour of the day. And when I was starting
Speaker 2: out in business, it was the monthly profiles of like,
Speaker 2: oh he's a designer profile. It was so beautiful and styled,
Speaker 2: and I wanted a place where I was like, no,
Speaker 2: no fluff and glamor. I want people to be able
Speaker 2: to log in it anytime the day, because small business
Speaker 2: is not known to five, you're up at four am
Speaker 2: doing whatever, where they could log in and read real
Speaker 2: stories and see how that it affects people's personal life
Speaker 2: as it does professional And so that was kind of
Speaker 2: what I took out of you know, it was a
Speaker 2: healing process for me to kind of put some good
Speaker 2: into the world after going through that.
Speaker 1: Well that's sort of how we came here. Actually, we
Speaker 1: were getting so many people contact us and ask us,
Speaker 1: you know, different questions about relationships and love, and so
Speaker 1: we thought, let's just put it out there to the world.
Speaker 1: But we are super raw and honest on here, and
Speaker 1: I do want to ask you. I know, when I
Speaker 1: found out that my ex had a double life, we're
Speaker 1: getting married together for two years. So sorry, oh no,
Speaker 1: it's like dodged a bullet. Fine, but I had this
Speaker 1: feeling and I wanted if you had it too, And
Speaker 1: I'm disgusted I had it, but I think a lot
Speaker 1: of people do. I still loved him, and I couldn't
Speaker 1: understand it because I could't understand why I was still
Speaker 1: in love with his person. And I wonder if any
Speaker 1: part of him sort of was begging for me to stay.
Speaker 1: I wonder if I would have did you when you
Speaker 1: found out that, did you still love him and you
Speaker 1: still wanted to stay, or like what we're feeling.
Speaker 2: I think that's so brave of you to share that.
Speaker 2: So thank you for sharing that. It's when I said
Speaker 2: how many and he said eight. My response then was
Speaker 2: actually showed me why I was in that position or
Speaker 2: in that darkness in the first place, because he said
Speaker 2: eight and I said, please don't leave me. So you know,
Speaker 2: so publicly I fought and stood and truthfully so stood
Speaker 2: for women's empowerment and I was that was what I want.
Speaker 2: My fight was. But personally, you know, at the core
Speaker 2: of empowerment is self worth, and personally, somewhere along the
Speaker 2: line in that relationship, I had let it completely drop
Speaker 2: the bar so low, and I think you know by
Speaker 2: replying please don't leave me is the same as what
Speaker 2: you're saying, like is there a part that he still
Speaker 2: wants to fix this? And you know and he didn't,
Speaker 2: and it it was that reason that's the bottom where
Speaker 2: you're like, Okay, this darkness is because you need to
Speaker 2: align your self worth, both publicly and personally, because what
Speaker 2: was next to me was the samount, the worst foundation,
Speaker 2: and I needed to be in alignment to put that
Speaker 2: into the world. So in answers to your question, yes,
Speaker 2: I think, and it's you also like, hold on, you
Speaker 2: missed that person. It's not you know, there's still good times.
Speaker 2: It wasn't always awful, So I think it is a.
Speaker 1: Very natural reaction. I think it's also you would have
Speaker 1: had a life planned with him, like we were going
Speaker 1: to do this and this is when we'll get married
Speaker 1: and this is well by. So I think for a
Speaker 1: lot of people too, it's the loss they mourn what
Speaker 1: was going to be.
Speaker 2: I think absolutely having to let go of that. But
Speaker 2: I think that's almost a hologram in itself, like if
Speaker 2: I look back now, it's not like it was all rosy.
Speaker 2: My therapist was like, some o that this happened because
Speaker 2: you wore the red flags as blind and I got
Speaker 2: to say, this happened because you wore the red dress
Speaker 2: around Red's not good on about that, no, I think,
Speaker 2: And it goes back to paying attention, Like we see
Speaker 2: oftentimes what we want to see. And that's not saying
Speaker 2: that I had no idea that he was cheating, but
Speaker 2: there was times where I was like, okay, I'll just
Speaker 2: let that slide, or you know, as I was saying
Speaker 2: about lowering the bar, we like you continually load the bar.
Speaker 2: When they say one thing, you're like, oh, that's they
Speaker 2: love me so much, But it's really just above a
Speaker 2: very low bar, so it's not a great gauge. And
Speaker 2: do you feel like that's put you in a place
Speaker 2: now where you would just never let that fly. It's
Speaker 2: definitely given me a whole new level of self respect.
Speaker 2: I think it's raised my own level of that, which
Speaker 2: is the most important level of it. And I think
Speaker 2: when people show you who they are, When people tell
Speaker 2: you who they are, believe them rather than it is
Speaker 2: about paying attention. So I think that that is what
Speaker 2: it really taught me my tolerance for your bullshit bullshit meter,
Speaker 2: But like my times were like, oh they might change,
Speaker 2: it's just nonexistent anymore. When people show you who they are, believe.
Speaker 3: Them, really appreciate you sharing that. What comes with seemingly
Speaker 3: being so successful and so unattainable is that people who
Speaker 3: are going through similar things think, oh, but that stuff
Speaker 3: doesn't happen to these other people. And so it's so
Speaker 3: nice when you see for self, who I think is
Speaker 3: inspirational to then go, actually, do you know what? I've
Speaker 3: been in some pretty dark, shitty places too, and I
Speaker 3: was pretty good at covering it up at the time.
Speaker 3: It's very relatable, So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2: And I think that's the importance, Like there's a responsibility
Speaker 2: around storytelling because you can't just tell the highlight reel.
Speaker 2: It's not true. And I think that the said before
Speaker 2: we connect our vulnerabilities are found through storytelling, and that's
Speaker 2: where the connection is. So I think there's a real
Speaker 2: responsibility around it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it.
Speaker 1: And are you a big question?
Speaker 3: Are you dating anyone?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: I will like that one's line.
Speaker 2: So tell me what is next for Samantha Wheels. Oh,
Speaker 2: so I've got to get these book finished. I'm on
Speaker 2: a deadline the Story that Never ends to line. It
Speaker 2: will be out pre released early next year and then
Speaker 2: it'll be on bookstands by June next year. And I'm
Speaker 2: also working on the relaunch of Themanth Lewis Foundation and
Speaker 2: Samantha wuls dot com, so they will be merging into
Speaker 2: a beautiful news site which hopefully will be up in
Speaker 2: the next few weeks or so.
Speaker 1: We are lucky enough at Samantha joining us on Ask
Speaker 1: Uncut today. Samantha, this is where we have listeners writing
Speaker 1: a question today. The question is when is ghosting on
Speaker 1: Tinder or any other form of ghosting? Okay, is it
Speaker 1: better to tell the truth or ghost.
Speaker 2: Like, how far along is the relationship Tinder relationship.
Speaker 1: Well, there's no specific Samantha, you've been Samantha one or
Speaker 1: two days, one or two days?
Speaker 2: All right, let's just say a week, Okay. I guess
Speaker 2: in general ghosting, I mean, I think ghosting is a
Speaker 2: general rules, not ideal. But then also I don't feel
Speaker 2: like you you don't always owe someone something if you've
Speaker 2: just had a few text mess just back and forth.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think like just being like, hey, I
Speaker 2: wish you well, there's always a kind way to end things.
Speaker 3: I think it's good to have closure, even if you
Speaker 3: don't owe that person anything. People crave having a closed book,
Speaker 3: and you don't have.
Speaker 2: To be brutal. You could just be like, oh it's
Speaker 2: you know, take care, like there's ways you can round
Speaker 2: it out. And if they're out of here, and if
Speaker 2: they don't get that, then that's their issue.
Speaker 1: I used to I used to have a really hard
Speaker 1: time if I wanted to end something or not speak
Speaker 1: to someone anymore or I used to have a really
Speaker 1: hard time. And I will admit I have ghosted before,
Speaker 1: but I was on the other end of that and
Speaker 1: it just feels shitty. When you think that something's going
Speaker 1: really well and they're not responding to you or you're
Speaker 1: not hearing from them, all you want is an answer.
Speaker 1: And then I was seeing this one guy and he
Speaker 1: was super honest with me. He said, I really liked him,
Speaker 1: and he said, I think you're great. Spark's not there
Speaker 1: and he which sounds brutal, but it did.
Speaker 3: It's great.
Speaker 1: Well, my thing is it didn't affect me.
Speaker 2: I was like, thanks, cool, Otherwise you'd be wondering for well.
Speaker 1: That's when I realized that I should be doing that
Speaker 1: to them too, instead of worrying it's going to hurt
Speaker 1: their feelings. They're going to care for about zero point
Speaker 1: two seconds and they're going to move on totally.
Speaker 3: But it's because we're so fearful of any sort of confrontation,
Speaker 3: as people that were kind of groomed to be like, oh,
Speaker 3: don't say anything, they might upset someone. Like everything's got
Speaker 3: to be piece. Absolutely, it does in a lot of
Speaker 3: aspects of life, but when it comes to delivering truth,
Speaker 3: if that person takes that badly, at least you've done
Speaker 3: everything to be as gentle and kind as possible.
Speaker 2: Agree.
Speaker 3: So I think ghosting is shit, I have done it,
Speaker 3: would do it again because that would be weird.
Speaker 2: I did read the Think the other day though, where
Speaker 2: it said if you're dating, like in the New dating
Speaker 2: a few weeks, and it's like, if you're dating someone
Speaker 2: and they like you, you'll know, if they don't, you'll
Speaker 2: just be confused. But so where was that when I
Speaker 2: needed that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're thinking, oh, should he hasn't written to me?
Speaker 3: Just don't, just don't. Yeah, just like it is true,
Speaker 3: they're gonna let you know. It's like you are. You're
Speaker 3: gonna let someone know if you like them. So I know,
Speaker 3: we don't.
Speaker 2: Complicate it so much.
Speaker 3: And people are never that busy. Like, if you're dating
Speaker 3: someone who's too busy to spend time with you, it's
Speaker 3: just probably not the fact. It's because if you are
Speaker 3: a priority, they will never be too busy to make you.
Speaker 2: And if they are too busy, then you don't want
Speaker 2: to be dating someone who's too busy. Yeah, we're so wise, I.
Speaker 3: Love we all agree.
Speaker 1: I'm just like really shattered by that comment because I'm
Speaker 1: too busy to date right now, and I know that
Speaker 1: sounds sad, but now you've said no one should date
Speaker 1: me because you're but.
Speaker 3: You are too busy, which means that then but then
Speaker 3: you're gonna be investing your time in some way because
Speaker 3: you're only going to let them down.
Speaker 2: So then you're probably going to attract the exact right person.
Speaker 2: That's what happens when you're busy.
Speaker 3: I hope. So yeah, I'm just gonna take numb job.
Speaker 3: I'm getting a fifth job.
Speaker 2: Nighttime stacking shells.
Speaker 1: You gotta stack that.
Speaker 3: We finish every episode we're talking about our suck and
Speaker 3: our sweet for the week. You can kick it off
Speaker 3: because once again, I don't know what my suckle my
Speaker 3: sweet is. I even sent you a memo this week
Speaker 3: and I say, this is hard. It's a really hard one,
Speaker 3: especially if you've had just like a good week. So
Speaker 3: where this stemmed from, I don't know if' even told you.
Speaker 3: This is just something my family grew up doing. So
Speaker 3: the six of us and my parents used to make
Speaker 3: us sit around at the kitchen table and say you're suck.
Speaker 3: It's just a way to force children to talk. Well,
Speaker 3: we do this every night in the Batch house. Once
Speaker 3: we finished our group dates and our single dates, all
Speaker 3: the girls would sit around on the bunk beds and
Speaker 3: go what was your suck and your Sweet?
Speaker 2: Yes told me. On The Bachelor they called it rosenthorne.
Speaker 3: Though we all that was good, we did not call
Speaker 3: it rosenthorn. You need to be hired Bachelor producers if
Speaker 3: you listen to this, which I know that you do.
Speaker 3: Higha Samantha Willis, she is fun employed right now.
Speaker 1: We definitely didn't call it rosen No, but we called
Speaker 1: it The cock and Rose are what bred once again?
Speaker 3: No, a cocktail party followed by rose ceremony. The lingo was.
Speaker 2: The reference.
Speaker 1: It wasn't like some sexual party. Calm down, okay, so
Speaker 1: suck and sweet.
Speaker 3: You can know, Samantha, you can start what is your
Speaker 3: suck and your Sweet? No pressure.
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't know how fun this podcast was
Speaker 2: going to be. This has been, This has been brilliant.
Speaker 2: I was gonna say that Taylor Swift released her new
Speaker 2: song this week, which I'm really loving. So I've got
Speaker 2: to I've got two sweets, have.
Speaker 3: Some more nice? Do you have any sucks?
Speaker 2: No, I've had a pretty good. No, I'm gonna have
Speaker 2: to I'm gonna have to think there's anything bad, but no,
Speaker 2: I mean it's great. I've got two sweets.
Speaker 3: Okay, break the rules only because we like you, We're
Speaker 3: gonna let you break the rules.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna think of one.
Speaker 1: Okay, got you go this way, so I'll go Okay,
Speaker 1: So my second suite, controversially are the same thing. We're
Speaker 1: recording this on a Thursday. Yesterday was my birthday.
Speaker 3: Happy birthday, guys, Thank you so planned.
Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I, you know, single life, went out
Speaker 1: to buy myself a little present, was thinking maybe some perfume.
Speaker 1: I came back with a Range Rover.
Speaker 3: You bought yourself a range Rover.
Speaker 2: Who are you?
Speaker 3: No perfume and a Range Rover? I know, I just
Speaker 3: had this yolo.
Speaker 1: I've always wanted a range Rover. So you bought yourself
Speaker 1: a range Rover?
Speaker 3: Range Rover? A vote? I go out by myself like
Speaker 3: absorbent breastpads. What do you mean you went and bought
Speaker 3: yourself a Range Rover? Done anything like this?
Speaker 2: But so is your suck that you don't have perfume?
Speaker 3: Or is your suck that you have no money less
Speaker 3: than your bank account?
Speaker 1: Suck is not the perfume, But I love your train
Speaker 1: of thought. No, my suck is that I am minus
Speaker 1: a lot of money. Now wow, But my sweet is
Speaker 1: I have a range Rover. That's pretty oppressive. You win,
Speaker 1: that's a great, that's yeah. I don't know which outweighs
Speaker 1: the other though.
Speaker 3: Can you pick me up in the mornings to drag
Speaker 3: me here if you bring me some perfume? All right,
Speaker 3: so Samantha, No, we've already done. Samantha's got to do
Speaker 3: my suck. And she was gonna think of a suck,
Speaker 3: wasn't she.
Speaker 2: Oh, I wanted a coffee so bad. So I was
Speaker 2: on set shooting something this morning. I wanted to coffee
Speaker 2: so bad, and someone kindly went and got some for everyone,
Speaker 2: and then I forgot to drink it and then it
Speaker 2: was cold. And that is that one.
Speaker 3: If that is your level of suck. I love your life.
Speaker 2: It's this sweet. It's been good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great. Yeah, Laura, I've also had a really
Speaker 3: good week, and so I hate doing this when my
Speaker 3: week's been great because I have nothing to complain about.
Speaker 3: My sweet is annoyingly always the same thing. Molly is amazing.
Speaker 3: I love my daughter. I'm obsessed with her. It's disgusting. No,
Speaker 3: she's ridiculous. I saw her laugh in your video and
Speaker 3: it was so cute. Just wait until she's a little
Speaker 3: bit older, like maybe thirteen when I want to throw
Speaker 3: her out the door and lock her in the garage.
Speaker 3: But right now she's just the dream. She is on
Speaker 3: a new no one cares, she's on a new sleep
Speaker 3: sleep routine. It's great, I'm getting sleep. My life is brilliance.
Speaker 2: These are huge.
Speaker 3: Sweet well, they really are, especially when you're a new
Speaker 3: mum and you don't really get out much and nothing
Speaker 3: really happens in your life. Sleep is like, that's the sweetest,
Speaker 3: that is the sweetest of the sweet ah. And my suck,
Speaker 3: my suck, Oh my sucks. I don't really have many sucks.
Speaker 3: My biggest suck this week was that I was a
Speaker 3: little bit irritable and I picked a fight with Matt
Speaker 3: over nothing over Instagram. We had a fight, a full
Speaker 3: blown actual fight over Instagram.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I just called Laura actually on the phone and I
Speaker 1: hung up.
Speaker 3: Don't go giving out too much of my information. I
Speaker 3: was leaving it at that.
Speaker 1: I could just hear it. No, I could just hear
Speaker 1: it in your voice. I was like, something is irritating her.
Speaker 1: Has it been resolved?
Speaker 3: Though? Oh yeah, we never we don't fight, and when
Speaker 3: we do it was over the fact that I wouldn't
Speaker 3: take a photo of Matt for Instagram. I was too busy,
Speaker 3: and then I got really angry at him and it
Speaker 3: was super unreasonable. And then ten minutes later, ten minutes later,
Speaker 3: we both realized that we were assholes and we stopped.
Speaker 3: Did you take a part for him? No, there was
Speaker 3: no time.
Speaker 2: There was no time.
Speaker 3: So unfortunately, guys, you didn't get to see what he
Speaker 3: want today because I didn't take a photo of him.
Speaker 3: That was my suck, and my stuck for next week
Speaker 3: is going to be that I had a fight because
Speaker 3: I told everyone about this one. Well, guys, thank you
Speaker 3: so much again for listening to another episode of Life Uncut. Samantha.
Speaker 3: You are the dream and we are so grateful that
Speaker 3: you came today and shared your story.
Speaker 2: Thank you. You guys are awesome. This has been so fun.
Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.
Speaker 3: You're actually more than welcome. It has been so fun.
Speaker 3: If you want to come back anytime and answer our
Speaker 3: questions for Life Uncut, and if you are far more
Speaker 3: informed than what we are or not, I've.
Speaker 2: Learnt so much here today. Thank you guys so much
Speaker 2: for sharing.
Speaker 3: You are high. Well, guys, please, if you enjoyed this episode,
Speaker 3: leave a review, hit subscribe, send us your questions so
Speaker 3: that we can give you out very poorly ill informed
Speaker 3: answers next week.
Speaker 1: And keep your eyes out for Samantha's book, because we
Speaker 1: will be absolutely and we love love, we love love.
Speaker 3: Shout