1 00:00:04,071 --> 00:00:07,071 Speaker 1: Podcast unite our voices. 2 00:00:08,191 --> 00:00:11,711 Speaker 2: Gotcha for Life and Black Magic Woman. Podcast acknowledges the 3 00:00:11,751 --> 00:00:15,271 Speaker 2: traditional owners of the land which we recorded this episode. 4 00:00:15,391 --> 00:00:18,391 Speaker 2: We also acknowledge the traditional owners of the land from 5 00:00:18,391 --> 00:00:21,271 Speaker 2: where you, the listener or viewer are tuning in. We 6 00:00:21,311 --> 00:00:23,751 Speaker 2: would like to pay our respects to elders both past 7 00:00:23,831 --> 00:00:26,951 Speaker 2: and present. We acknowledged that this land always was and 8 00:00:27,031 --> 00:00:32,471 Speaker 2: always will be Aboriginal land. This podcast talks about mental health, 9 00:00:32,711 --> 00:00:36,271 Speaker 2: suicide and lived experience. If that brings anything up for you, 10 00:00:36,351 --> 00:00:39,431 Speaker 2: please take care while listening and remember you don't need 11 00:00:39,471 --> 00:00:45,831 Speaker 2: to worry alone. Welcome to Mental Fitness Conversations, a podcast 12 00:00:45,871 --> 00:00:49,151 Speaker 2: about how real people build their mental fitness through connection, 13 00:00:49,471 --> 00:00:52,911 Speaker 2: community and simple everyday actions. Brought to you by Gotcha 14 00:00:52,951 --> 00:00:55,511 Speaker 2: for Life in partnership with Black Magic Woman. 15 00:00:55,951 --> 00:00:58,071 Speaker 1: Here's your host, Monda Narrabels. 16 00:00:59,351 --> 00:01:03,911 Speaker 3: Thank you for joining me for this amazing episode. Actually 17 00:01:03,951 --> 00:01:06,951 Speaker 3: a partnership series with Gotcha for Life. 18 00:01:07,311 --> 00:01:09,391 Speaker 1: It's a charity where I sit on the board. 19 00:01:09,871 --> 00:01:14,951 Speaker 3: It's about imagining or even working towards an Australia where 20 00:01:14,991 --> 00:01:18,431 Speaker 3: there are no suicides. A lot of you mob that 21 00:01:18,431 --> 00:01:21,391 Speaker 3: are listening might be triggered or feeling a little bit 22 00:01:21,391 --> 00:01:24,591 Speaker 3: traumatized by the end of it. There is a national 23 00:01:24,751 --> 00:01:27,271 Speaker 3: hotline called One Three Yarn. We'll make sure it's in 24 00:01:27,311 --> 00:01:29,551 Speaker 3: the show notes, but I just want to let you 25 00:01:29,631 --> 00:01:33,471 Speaker 3: know that some of the yarns may get a little 26 00:01:33,471 --> 00:01:36,751 Speaker 3: bit deep, but these are conversations that need to be had, 27 00:01:37,151 --> 00:01:40,631 Speaker 3: and I hope that there's something for you that you 28 00:01:40,631 --> 00:01:44,231 Speaker 3: can take from it, use it, implement it, or reach 29 00:01:44,311 --> 00:01:47,151 Speaker 3: out to us after the show if you. 30 00:01:47,111 --> 00:01:48,031 Speaker 1: Do want to have a yarn. 31 00:01:48,991 --> 00:01:52,271 Speaker 3: We're here on the beautiful lands of the Camaagle people, 32 00:01:52,591 --> 00:01:55,911 Speaker 3: which is part of the Orination where my family have 33 00:01:56,071 --> 00:02:00,191 Speaker 3: been here for over ten generations, probably two thousand generations, 34 00:02:00,591 --> 00:02:04,271 Speaker 3: but this is where I call home. They actually got 35 00:02:04,271 --> 00:02:08,671 Speaker 3: the absolute pleasure to yarn with a brother, doctor Clinton Schultz, 36 00:02:09,151 --> 00:02:12,111 Speaker 3: who I met long, long time ago, but have never 37 00:02:12,191 --> 00:02:15,191 Speaker 3: had an opportunity to sit down and have a yarn. 38 00:02:15,311 --> 00:02:16,911 Speaker 1: Even with Black Magic Woman. 39 00:02:16,711 --> 00:02:20,271 Speaker 3: Going for five years, It's like this was the right 40 00:02:20,311 --> 00:02:24,111 Speaker 3: time to be yearning. So brother, can I first say 41 00:02:24,111 --> 00:02:26,551 Speaker 3: thank you for taking the time out your busy schedule. 42 00:02:26,631 --> 00:02:28,671 Speaker 3: We both live in Queensland, but we get to catch 43 00:02:28,711 --> 00:02:31,791 Speaker 3: up here in New South Wales, but thank you for 44 00:02:32,071 --> 00:02:34,631 Speaker 3: being part of this partnership series. With Black Magic Women 45 00:02:34,711 --> 00:02:36,911 Speaker 3: and got You for life. For people that don't know 46 00:02:36,991 --> 00:02:39,591 Speaker 3: your story, do you want to share with listeners your name, 47 00:02:39,671 --> 00:02:41,751 Speaker 3: your mob, and a little bit about where you grew up? 48 00:02:41,831 --> 00:02:44,631 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure, goming into thank you. So my name's Clinton. 49 00:02:44,671 --> 00:02:46,551 Speaker 4: I'm a gon Marig millery man myself. So I live 50 00:02:46,591 --> 00:02:49,231 Speaker 4: on comber Meria Country. So what most people recognize as 51 00:02:49,471 --> 00:02:52,351 Speaker 4: beautiful Gold Coast probably more recognized as the Gray Coast 52 00:02:52,391 --> 00:02:55,351 Speaker 4: at present. I swear we have wet seasons up there now, 53 00:02:55,351 --> 00:03:00,071 Speaker 4: which is pretty crazy. Yeah, my story is pretty involved 54 00:03:00,231 --> 00:03:02,471 Speaker 4: in terms of I guess socialmotional well being, both from 55 00:03:02,471 --> 00:03:05,951 Speaker 4: a lived experience perspective through to the work that I 56 00:03:05,991 --> 00:03:08,271 Speaker 4: am fortunate enough to be able to do now. And 57 00:03:09,191 --> 00:03:11,151 Speaker 4: I guess that all really started, and my story is 58 00:03:11,191 --> 00:03:13,391 Speaker 4: well documented and I'm pretty open with it. I think 59 00:03:13,471 --> 00:03:16,671 Speaker 4: sharing lived experience really provides others with the opportunities to 60 00:03:17,271 --> 00:03:19,231 Speaker 4: learn what has and hasn't worked for others and to 61 00:03:19,311 --> 00:03:21,511 Speaker 4: maybe learn something from that and take it on board. 62 00:03:22,791 --> 00:03:25,671 Speaker 4: So I guess from when I was about five to fifteen, 63 00:03:25,711 --> 00:03:31,111 Speaker 4: I experienced a whole bunch of abuse, psychological, emotional, physical 64 00:03:31,191 --> 00:03:34,351 Speaker 4: abuse in the house was a very violent sort of 65 00:03:34,391 --> 00:03:37,231 Speaker 4: household I grew up in literally to the point where 66 00:03:38,111 --> 00:03:40,671 Speaker 4: my brother and I were literally scared for our lives 67 00:03:40,831 --> 00:03:44,991 Speaker 4: quite often, and that obviously caused a whole bunch of 68 00:03:45,351 --> 00:03:50,071 Speaker 4: psychological trauma for me, and my way of dealing with that, 69 00:03:50,351 --> 00:03:53,151 Speaker 4: I guess, was to turn to drugs and alcohol. So, 70 00:03:54,111 --> 00:03:56,631 Speaker 4: you know, I was heavily drinking well before I was fifteen, 71 00:03:56,711 --> 00:03:59,471 Speaker 4: probably thirteen, taken a whole bunch of different drugs by 72 00:03:59,471 --> 00:04:01,351 Speaker 4: the time I was fifteen. But at the same time 73 00:04:01,391 --> 00:04:04,791 Speaker 4: I had responsibilities as well. My mum was trying to 74 00:04:05,311 --> 00:04:09,631 Speaker 4: go to university and improve you know, the opportunities for 75 00:04:09,991 --> 00:04:12,511 Speaker 4: herself and my little sisters and my little brother at 76 00:04:12,511 --> 00:04:15,831 Speaker 4: that stage. So I decided to leave school. Well, school 77 00:04:15,871 --> 00:04:17,231 Speaker 4: and I decided to leave each other. 78 00:04:17,631 --> 00:04:19,111 Speaker 1: Just wasn't a good match. 79 00:04:19,471 --> 00:04:21,391 Speaker 4: No, it wasn't a good match. But the real, I 80 00:04:21,471 --> 00:04:25,231 Speaker 4: guess straw that broke the camel's back was the deputy 81 00:04:25,231 --> 00:04:28,271 Speaker 4: principal of the high school that I was at literally 82 00:04:28,311 --> 00:04:29,751 Speaker 4: turned around and said to me, I don't know why 83 00:04:29,791 --> 00:04:31,311 Speaker 4: we bother. By the time you're eighteen and you're going 84 00:04:31,311 --> 00:04:33,591 Speaker 4: to be dead or in jail. And so when your 85 00:04:33,631 --> 00:04:36,071 Speaker 4: principal sort of says that to you, you figure, why 86 00:04:36,111 --> 00:04:39,351 Speaker 4: am I here, and so I'd had an off I'd 87 00:04:39,351 --> 00:04:41,471 Speaker 4: already had about one hundred and sixty days off school 88 00:04:41,471 --> 00:04:46,111 Speaker 4: that year and just couldn't handle it anymore, so decided 89 00:04:46,151 --> 00:04:48,911 Speaker 4: to take time off. But you know, my mum was 90 00:04:48,911 --> 00:04:50,711 Speaker 4: pretty adamant that if I wasn't going to be at school, 91 00:04:51,431 --> 00:04:54,511 Speaker 4: I had to be doing something, and so what I 92 00:04:54,551 --> 00:04:56,711 Speaker 4: did was I looked after my baby sister, who was 93 00:04:56,751 --> 00:04:59,711 Speaker 4: only six months old at the time, during the day 94 00:04:59,791 --> 00:05:03,831 Speaker 4: so my mom could go to university and I was 95 00:05:03,871 --> 00:05:06,471 Speaker 4: doing a chef apprenticeship at night. So I tried to 96 00:05:06,551 --> 00:05:10,551 Speaker 4: keep myself, as I guess, entertained as possible, because if 97 00:05:10,551 --> 00:05:15,671 Speaker 4: I wasn't entertained, I was generally in trouble. So while 98 00:05:15,711 --> 00:05:18,631 Speaker 4: I was doing that, you know my drug I had 99 00:05:18,831 --> 00:05:20,991 Speaker 4: more access to money, I had more access to things, 100 00:05:21,031 --> 00:05:24,311 Speaker 4: and I still hadn't dealt with any of my trauma. 101 00:05:24,431 --> 00:05:27,991 Speaker 4: So I guess I started using drugs and alcohol even 102 00:05:27,991 --> 00:05:30,151 Speaker 4: more and more, and working in hospitality. Anybody who works 103 00:05:30,151 --> 00:05:32,591 Speaker 4: in hospitality knows that it's just a rife environment for 104 00:05:33,071 --> 00:05:35,311 Speaker 4: drug and alcohol abuse. In itself. It comes with its 105 00:05:35,711 --> 00:05:40,591 Speaker 4: whole own set of of triggers and stresses and challenges. 106 00:05:40,631 --> 00:05:44,271 Speaker 4: And that just drives trauma further. So I probably did that, 107 00:05:44,671 --> 00:05:47,951 Speaker 4: you know, for fifteen years of my life. To be honest, 108 00:05:48,791 --> 00:05:50,471 Speaker 4: it wasn't until I had kids that I sort of 109 00:05:50,471 --> 00:05:53,031 Speaker 4: pulled my head in a little bit. But I was 110 00:05:53,031 --> 00:05:56,351 Speaker 4: really high functioning, which I guess some people might see 111 00:05:56,351 --> 00:05:59,511 Speaker 4: as a blessing, but for me, it was also a 112 00:05:59,511 --> 00:06:03,031 Speaker 4: bit of a curse because it meant nobody knew how 113 00:06:03,071 --> 00:06:05,991 Speaker 4: traumatized I was and I guess what I was going through, 114 00:06:06,551 --> 00:06:09,551 Speaker 4: and that left me feeling really alone. So there was 115 00:06:09,551 --> 00:06:11,711 Speaker 4: twice in my life where I just didn't want to 116 00:06:11,711 --> 00:06:15,311 Speaker 4: be here anymore. And I'm just really fortunate that the 117 00:06:15,391 --> 00:06:17,591 Speaker 4: right people were there at the exact right moments to 118 00:06:17,671 --> 00:06:20,831 Speaker 4: kind of pull me through that. I'd seen others that 119 00:06:20,911 --> 00:06:23,351 Speaker 4: i'd sort of grown up with that couldn't handle the 120 00:06:23,391 --> 00:06:27,031 Speaker 4: things that had happened to them either and had decided 121 00:06:27,071 --> 00:06:30,431 Speaker 4: to leave this plane, and you know, some of that 122 00:06:31,111 --> 00:06:33,431 Speaker 4: kind of had an impact on me, and I was like, well, yeah, 123 00:06:33,431 --> 00:06:36,111 Speaker 4: maybe this isn't worth it. So it was a really 124 00:06:36,191 --> 00:06:39,591 Speaker 4: lonely place, and as I said, I'm really grateful that 125 00:06:40,071 --> 00:06:41,711 Speaker 4: the right people were there at the right time to 126 00:06:42,031 --> 00:06:44,151 Speaker 4: pull me through that and to allow me the opportunity 127 00:06:44,191 --> 00:06:48,551 Speaker 4: to sort of give back now. But yeah, that fifteen 128 00:06:48,631 --> 00:06:51,671 Speaker 4: years where I was abusing, I managed to finish my 129 00:06:51,751 --> 00:06:54,711 Speaker 4: chef's apprenticeship, work in some of the best restaurants in Queensland, 130 00:06:54,791 --> 00:06:58,311 Speaker 4: travel half of Europe working as a chef, come back, 131 00:06:58,391 --> 00:07:01,711 Speaker 4: go to university, complete my psychology degree, do my honors, 132 00:07:02,111 --> 00:07:04,831 Speaker 4: and then go out and start working as a psychologist, 133 00:07:04,831 --> 00:07:08,311 Speaker 4: mostly in the space of drug and alcohol recovery, while 134 00:07:08,311 --> 00:07:11,551 Speaker 4: I was still abusing. So that's why some people go, yeah, 135 00:07:11,551 --> 00:07:13,231 Speaker 4: and you know, you were really high functioning, so that's 136 00:07:13,311 --> 00:07:15,751 Speaker 4: kind of a blessing. But for me, it was through 137 00:07:15,791 --> 00:07:18,911 Speaker 4: that entire time nobody knew kind of what was going 138 00:07:18,951 --> 00:07:21,911 Speaker 4: on for me, and so that meant that I didn't 139 00:07:21,911 --> 00:07:22,751 Speaker 4: have to deal with my shit. 140 00:07:22,991 --> 00:07:25,271 Speaker 1: To be honest, no one really. 141 00:07:25,631 --> 00:07:28,111 Speaker 3: There was no real accountability to other people because they 142 00:07:28,111 --> 00:07:28,471 Speaker 3: didn't know. 143 00:07:28,951 --> 00:07:32,271 Speaker 4: Yeah, and I was purposely keeping people separated from me. 144 00:07:32,391 --> 00:07:34,231 Speaker 1: That's what you do, you isolate yourself. 145 00:07:34,431 --> 00:07:36,711 Speaker 4: I'd experienced so much rejection, that's all I knew. I 146 00:07:36,711 --> 00:07:39,431 Speaker 4: didn't know how to accept people in because I felt 147 00:07:39,511 --> 00:07:41,871 Speaker 4: so rejected. I'd felt rejected in the home, I'd felt 148 00:07:41,871 --> 00:07:46,231 Speaker 4: rejected at school. Was more and more feeling rejected by society. 149 00:07:46,271 --> 00:07:50,071 Speaker 4: The more I think, as you know, as young Aboriginal men, 150 00:07:50,111 --> 00:07:53,191 Speaker 4: particularly as we start to age in this Western society, 151 00:07:54,031 --> 00:07:57,751 Speaker 4: the more we become aware of how much society rejects us. 152 00:07:58,111 --> 00:08:01,671 Speaker 4: Everything about us, everything that is I guess put out 153 00:08:01,671 --> 00:08:03,191 Speaker 4: in this world about what it is to be an 154 00:08:03,191 --> 00:08:06,591 Speaker 4: average man is deficit discourse based. It's all negative based, 155 00:08:07,271 --> 00:08:10,111 Speaker 4: and obviously some of that's going to soak in and 156 00:08:10,151 --> 00:08:12,751 Speaker 4: it starts to become part of your actual being because 157 00:08:12,791 --> 00:08:15,111 Speaker 4: it's all you hear about yourself. So you're kind of 158 00:08:15,151 --> 00:08:17,791 Speaker 4: left in this space of either questioning your own identity 159 00:08:17,791 --> 00:08:20,591 Speaker 4: and your own sense of self or accepting that all 160 00:08:20,631 --> 00:08:22,991 Speaker 4: this retric that you're hearing constantly must be the truth 161 00:08:23,471 --> 00:08:26,471 Speaker 4: and absorbing some of that. So, yeah, trying to deal 162 00:08:26,471 --> 00:08:31,431 Speaker 4: with all of that was pretty pretty difficult, but yeah, 163 00:08:31,631 --> 00:08:34,071 Speaker 4: managed to get through it. And culture was really the 164 00:08:34,111 --> 00:08:36,831 Speaker 4: thing that's you allow me to thrive in my life. 165 00:08:36,991 --> 00:08:39,151 Speaker 3: That's exactly what I was going to ask in terms 166 00:08:39,191 --> 00:08:42,271 Speaker 3: of how do you ground yourself in culture to be 167 00:08:42,311 --> 00:08:45,511 Speaker 3: able to be the best version of yourself, especially with 168 00:08:45,631 --> 00:08:47,591 Speaker 3: your little family, with your little ones. 169 00:08:48,031 --> 00:08:52,631 Speaker 4: Yeah, look, I'm a real passionate advocate for the importance 170 00:08:52,631 --> 00:08:55,511 Speaker 4: of culture, but not just not just culture, I think law. 171 00:08:56,591 --> 00:08:58,031 Speaker 4: You know, I've been fortunate enough to go through our 172 00:08:58,071 --> 00:09:00,311 Speaker 4: processes and to understand that side of it and to 173 00:09:00,351 --> 00:09:03,191 Speaker 4: understand the power of it and the healing parts of it, 174 00:09:03,631 --> 00:09:05,551 Speaker 4: but also the guidance that allows us to live our 175 00:09:05,551 --> 00:09:08,271 Speaker 4: life in a positive way. And so I'm really adamant 176 00:09:08,311 --> 00:09:10,871 Speaker 4: about helping people these days to figure out how those 177 00:09:10,871 --> 00:09:13,151 Speaker 4: two pieces fit together. What are those parts of our 178 00:09:13,231 --> 00:09:15,831 Speaker 4: law that have kept us well with self other than 179 00:09:15,871 --> 00:09:19,391 Speaker 4: place across forever, and how do we actually apply those 180 00:09:19,671 --> 00:09:22,791 Speaker 4: today in a twenty first century. And it takes a 181 00:09:22,831 --> 00:09:24,871 Speaker 4: little while to sort of figure it out, but once 182 00:09:24,911 --> 00:09:27,911 Speaker 4: you figure it out, those principles can protect you in 183 00:09:27,991 --> 00:09:30,671 Speaker 4: anything that you're actually doing. So I'm far more focused 184 00:09:30,671 --> 00:09:33,751 Speaker 4: these days on making sure that I'm abiding by by 185 00:09:33,831 --> 00:09:37,471 Speaker 4: our lore than I am with Western law, because if 186 00:09:37,511 --> 00:09:39,151 Speaker 4: I'm abiden by these ones, I don't really have to 187 00:09:39,151 --> 00:09:41,231 Speaker 4: worry about these other ones as much. I mean, the 188 00:09:41,311 --> 00:09:43,631 Speaker 4: racism discrimination that exists in there is still going to 189 00:09:43,631 --> 00:09:48,231 Speaker 4: always try and throw a spear in you. But you know, 190 00:09:48,271 --> 00:09:50,191 Speaker 4: I can far better protect myself if I'm living my 191 00:09:50,231 --> 00:09:52,791 Speaker 4: life through these positive principles that are embedded in our 192 00:09:52,831 --> 00:09:53,991 Speaker 4: ways of knowing, being and doing. 193 00:09:54,231 --> 00:09:56,591 Speaker 3: And I've been following your work for quite some time. 194 00:09:57,151 --> 00:09:59,791 Speaker 3: The organization that you're working for your heading up now 195 00:09:59,871 --> 00:10:03,911 Speaker 3: the First Nation Strategy at Black Dog Institute. Tell me 196 00:10:03,951 --> 00:10:06,111 Speaker 3: how you got involved with the institute and just some of. 197 00:10:06,071 --> 00:10:06,951 Speaker 1: The work that you do there. 198 00:10:07,231 --> 00:10:09,031 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. So I guess I've been involved in 199 00:10:09,071 --> 00:10:12,511 Speaker 4: academia for I don't know, fifteen years or something now, 200 00:10:12,551 --> 00:10:16,151 Speaker 4: and i'd kind of gone through most of the universities 201 00:10:16,151 --> 00:10:18,231 Speaker 4: in Southeast Queensland and swore I was never going back 202 00:10:18,231 --> 00:10:21,551 Speaker 4: to academia, and then this opportunity came up at Black 203 00:10:21,551 --> 00:10:25,191 Speaker 4: Dog Institute, where it was actually Leilani Darwin had rung 204 00:10:25,191 --> 00:10:26,751 Speaker 4: me up and said, look, brother, I think there's a 205 00:10:26,791 --> 00:10:29,671 Speaker 4: really good opportunity for you to do something different here 206 00:10:30,671 --> 00:10:32,751 Speaker 4: and I can promise you it won't be the same 207 00:10:32,791 --> 00:10:37,191 Speaker 4: experiences that you've had in academia previously. And I went, yep, 208 00:10:37,231 --> 00:10:41,031 Speaker 4: no worries, So went along, took the opportunity to see 209 00:10:41,031 --> 00:10:43,951 Speaker 4: what it was all about. And it's been really refreshing 210 00:10:43,951 --> 00:10:46,391 Speaker 4: to work at an organization that is willing to actually 211 00:10:46,431 --> 00:10:48,671 Speaker 4: reflect on where it's at rather than to try and 212 00:10:49,951 --> 00:10:52,551 Speaker 4: bullshit about where it's at. Yeah, so they've been quite 213 00:10:52,631 --> 00:10:54,951 Speaker 4: open to me coming in and saying, look, this is 214 00:10:54,991 --> 00:10:56,551 Speaker 4: the work we need to do because this is where 215 00:10:56,551 --> 00:10:58,351 Speaker 4: you are on your journey right now, and these are 216 00:10:58,391 --> 00:10:59,951 Speaker 4: the things that we need to do before I'm even 217 00:10:59,991 --> 00:11:02,271 Speaker 4: going to feel confident in bringing other blackfellows in here 218 00:11:02,511 --> 00:11:04,871 Speaker 4: and building the team that we can do the work 219 00:11:04,951 --> 00:11:07,791 Speaker 4: moving forward. And I think that was a bit of 220 00:11:07,791 --> 00:11:08,591 Speaker 4: a shock for them at. 221 00:11:08,551 --> 00:11:10,631 Speaker 1: First, but a reality check. 222 00:11:10,991 --> 00:11:13,671 Speaker 4: Yeah. But as I said, it's been really refreshing to 223 00:11:13,711 --> 00:11:16,551 Speaker 4: be in an organization that has accepted that, because that 224 00:11:16,751 --> 00:11:19,431 Speaker 4: was my first experience of that. Every other organization I've 225 00:11:19,471 --> 00:11:21,831 Speaker 4: ever gone into has asked me to come in to 226 00:11:21,871 --> 00:11:24,911 Speaker 4: do a job, and the job has never actually been the. 227 00:11:24,951 --> 00:11:26,471 Speaker 1: Job set up properly. 228 00:11:26,631 --> 00:11:29,111 Speaker 4: Yeah, it'll be come in and develop aboriginal health programs, 229 00:11:29,151 --> 00:11:30,511 Speaker 4: and then all they want me to do is talk 230 00:11:30,551 --> 00:11:34,031 Speaker 4: about CTG and deficit based stats, and well, that's got 231 00:11:34,111 --> 00:11:37,071 Speaker 4: nothing to do with health. That's all ill health. So 232 00:11:37,911 --> 00:11:39,911 Speaker 4: call your course aboriginal ill health if that's what you 233 00:11:39,951 --> 00:11:43,071 Speaker 4: want to do, let's not call it aboriginal health. So 234 00:11:43,711 --> 00:11:46,191 Speaker 4: coming in now having a lot more freedom to really 235 00:11:46,191 --> 00:11:49,951 Speaker 4: focus on social motion wellbeing as a concept and I 236 00:11:49,951 --> 00:11:52,831 Speaker 4: guess the holistic concept of that and mental health being 237 00:11:52,871 --> 00:11:55,111 Speaker 4: a part of that and looking at how do we 238 00:11:55,151 --> 00:11:59,911 Speaker 4: actually apply that within policy practice moving forward? 239 00:12:00,871 --> 00:12:02,591 Speaker 1: And have you got now a big team a lot 240 00:12:02,591 --> 00:12:03,551 Speaker 1: of black fellows. 241 00:12:04,111 --> 00:12:06,631 Speaker 4: Yet, Yeah, we've got quite a big team because we 242 00:12:06,671 --> 00:12:10,151 Speaker 4: actually house the Aboriginal to show on the Lived Experience 243 00:12:10,191 --> 00:12:14,791 Speaker 4: Center for Suicide at Black Dog. They've been on an 244 00:12:14,791 --> 00:12:17,191 Speaker 4: awesome journey. They started in house with us at BDI, 245 00:12:17,391 --> 00:12:20,951 Speaker 4: but by September thirty this year, it'll be called ILEX, 246 00:12:20,951 --> 00:12:24,351 Speaker 4: so the Indigenous Australian Lived Experience Center is actually moving 247 00:12:24,391 --> 00:12:29,511 Speaker 4: to its own standalone entity organization. So having had the 248 00:12:29,551 --> 00:12:32,351 Speaker 4: opportunity to help guide them through that process and go 249 00:12:32,431 --> 00:12:34,391 Speaker 4: from just being a little in the house team to 250 00:12:34,511 --> 00:12:39,311 Speaker 4: now establishing their own charity has been a deadly thing 251 00:12:39,351 --> 00:12:41,071 Speaker 4: to be part of. And I think that's really shown 252 00:12:41,151 --> 00:12:45,431 Speaker 4: how willing Black Dog's been to truly be a partner, 253 00:12:45,591 --> 00:12:47,831 Speaker 4: to not try and pretend that it's the expert in 254 00:12:47,871 --> 00:12:49,911 Speaker 4: this space, but to go, hey, we've got the opportunity 255 00:12:49,951 --> 00:12:53,591 Speaker 4: and resources, how can we actually use these to help 256 00:12:53,951 --> 00:12:57,711 Speaker 4: with your self determination as an entity? And so, yeah, 257 00:12:57,711 --> 00:12:59,551 Speaker 4: that's been really rewarding, but it means that half my 258 00:12:59,591 --> 00:13:02,471 Speaker 4: team's actually leaving. Then we'll really focus in on our 259 00:13:02,511 --> 00:13:06,311 Speaker 4: research and trying to really establish a heavy research presence 260 00:13:06,351 --> 00:13:09,071 Speaker 4: of socialmotion well being, particularly in I guess the trauma 261 00:13:09,311 --> 00:13:10,871 Speaker 4: and suicide prevention spaces. 262 00:13:11,351 --> 00:13:13,511 Speaker 3: I was watching a video of you, my brother, and 263 00:13:13,551 --> 00:13:16,631 Speaker 3: you're talking about Abershal psychology, which is not the same 264 00:13:16,671 --> 00:13:22,031 Speaker 3: as Western psychology. Can you share with our listeners what 265 00:13:22,071 --> 00:13:23,551 Speaker 3: do you mean by it's not the same? 266 00:13:24,151 --> 00:13:27,991 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. So when I learned this really early 267 00:13:28,031 --> 00:13:31,231 Speaker 4: in my psych sort of journey, I was at university 268 00:13:31,311 --> 00:13:33,431 Speaker 4: undertaking psych and it was the first year and I 269 00:13:33,471 --> 00:13:36,751 Speaker 4: was sitting there going, this has absolutely no relation to 270 00:13:36,871 --> 00:13:38,951 Speaker 4: me or to the mob that I want to work with, 271 00:13:39,671 --> 00:13:41,591 Speaker 4: And so I kind of set my mind then to 272 00:13:41,671 --> 00:13:44,151 Speaker 4: looking at well, how do I shift that. How do 273 00:13:44,191 --> 00:13:48,551 Speaker 4: we broaden the understanding of what psychology actually could be 274 00:13:48,871 --> 00:13:51,911 Speaker 4: and make it more practical to people from a whole 275 00:13:51,911 --> 00:13:54,831 Speaker 4: bunch of diverse backgrounds. At the moment, it's white as right, 276 00:13:55,911 --> 00:13:58,711 Speaker 4: and so that kind of needs to be shifted and changed. 277 00:13:58,751 --> 00:14:01,711 Speaker 4: You know, we live in such a multi national country 278 00:14:01,751 --> 00:14:05,871 Speaker 4: now multicultural society, that if we don't shift the way 279 00:14:05,871 --> 00:14:08,431 Speaker 4: that we allow ourselves to do things, And if we 280 00:14:08,431 --> 00:14:12,191 Speaker 4: don't start embracing all the wonderful information that can be 281 00:14:13,271 --> 00:14:16,671 Speaker 4: gathered and gained and we can all learn from from diversity, 282 00:14:16,671 --> 00:14:20,231 Speaker 4: from embracing diversity, then nothing we're doing is actually going 283 00:14:20,231 --> 00:14:22,951 Speaker 4: to fit the population that we're actually trying to serve. 284 00:14:23,031 --> 00:14:25,431 Speaker 4: So I guess the big difference is is that I 285 00:14:25,431 --> 00:14:29,431 Speaker 4: guess you know, from an aboriginal psychologist perspective, everything's more 286 00:14:29,471 --> 00:14:31,751 Speaker 4: about spirit than it is about what's going on just 287 00:14:31,791 --> 00:14:35,911 Speaker 4: cognitive or emotionally or within my memories. So it's funny 288 00:14:35,911 --> 00:14:38,191 Speaker 4: because the word psychology, if you actually break it down, 289 00:14:38,231 --> 00:14:41,471 Speaker 4: it actually, you know, psyche is actually spirit, it's not 290 00:14:41,511 --> 00:14:45,031 Speaker 4: the mind. So the field itself, I think sometimes has 291 00:14:45,071 --> 00:14:48,151 Speaker 4: stepped away from what it originally was, so we're kind 292 00:14:48,151 --> 00:14:49,911 Speaker 4: of trying to drag it back to what it is. 293 00:14:49,951 --> 00:14:53,031 Speaker 4: And that's really about understanding the things that are most 294 00:14:53,071 --> 00:14:56,151 Speaker 4: important to us and what keeps our spirits strong. And 295 00:14:56,191 --> 00:14:58,671 Speaker 4: we know that those things are like connection to culture, 296 00:14:58,751 --> 00:15:04,751 Speaker 4: connection to family, connection to law and community, and obviously 297 00:15:04,791 --> 00:15:06,991 Speaker 4: physical health and mental health are important, but I think 298 00:15:07,031 --> 00:15:09,871 Speaker 4: that there's other facets of our overall well being that 299 00:15:09,911 --> 00:15:14,671 Speaker 4: at times a far more influential on our overall experience 300 00:15:15,191 --> 00:15:19,271 Speaker 4: than just our mental experience. And so for me, that's 301 00:15:19,271 --> 00:15:22,871 Speaker 4: what aboriginal psychology is really about. How do we first 302 00:15:22,911 --> 00:15:26,311 Speaker 4: acknowledge that these other parts of ourself are real and 303 00:15:26,351 --> 00:15:29,511 Speaker 4: that we can't constantly try and compartmentalize them, And we 304 00:15:29,591 --> 00:15:31,471 Speaker 4: have to acknowledge that we're one being, and we're a 305 00:15:31,471 --> 00:15:35,231 Speaker 4: connected being, and what happens to any part of us 306 00:15:35,351 --> 00:15:38,271 Speaker 4: happens to all, and what happens within our connections happens 307 00:15:38,271 --> 00:15:41,071 Speaker 4: to us as well, and vice versa. So we first 308 00:15:41,071 --> 00:15:42,951 Speaker 4: have to accept that, and that then allows us to 309 00:15:43,031 --> 00:15:46,591 Speaker 4: then look at Okay, well, how do we then harness 310 00:15:47,511 --> 00:15:49,471 Speaker 4: the power that can exist in those connections to keep 311 00:15:49,511 --> 00:15:50,791 Speaker 4: us strong and deadly moving forward? 312 00:15:50,831 --> 00:15:52,631 Speaker 3: And I was just going to ask a little bit 313 00:15:52,671 --> 00:15:55,271 Speaker 3: more of a like personal question now in terms of 314 00:15:56,191 --> 00:15:59,751 Speaker 3: looking after your own mental health and building your mental fitness. 315 00:15:59,791 --> 00:16:01,351 Speaker 3: And that's what we talk about. It got you for life, 316 00:16:01,351 --> 00:16:06,271 Speaker 3: for the programs that we run, building your mental muscles. 317 00:16:07,311 --> 00:16:09,751 Speaker 3: What do you do to build your mental fitness? What 318 00:16:09,751 --> 00:16:11,191 Speaker 3: do you do to look after your mental health? 319 00:16:11,391 --> 00:16:14,351 Speaker 4: Yes, I do some crazy stuff and then I'll probably 320 00:16:14,391 --> 00:16:16,431 Speaker 4: do some more practical, ordinary stuff as well. 321 00:16:16,471 --> 00:16:17,071 Speaker 1: So well, I. 322 00:16:16,991 --> 00:16:19,751 Speaker 3: Heard I heard that you have an injury Warrior, Jim, 323 00:16:20,231 --> 00:16:26,311 Speaker 3: you obviously have an outlet in terms of hardcore physical activity. 324 00:16:26,511 --> 00:16:29,151 Speaker 4: Yeah. So I guess physical activity is always one way 325 00:16:29,151 --> 00:16:31,991 Speaker 4: that I've maintained I guess my mental well being. It's 326 00:16:32,031 --> 00:16:34,311 Speaker 4: something that works for me. It may not work for everybody. 327 00:16:34,431 --> 00:16:37,191 Speaker 4: Doing some level of exercise. I think is important for everybody. 328 00:16:37,271 --> 00:16:39,391 Speaker 4: We know that it helps release a whole bunch of 329 00:16:39,471 --> 00:16:41,711 Speaker 4: what we'd recognize as the happy chemicals, So it does 330 00:16:41,751 --> 00:16:44,071 Speaker 4: help us to feel good. I probably do in excess 331 00:16:44,111 --> 00:16:47,511 Speaker 4: of what most people feel is normal. So I've done 332 00:16:47,511 --> 00:16:49,351 Speaker 4: a whole bunch of crazy stuff over the last sort 333 00:16:49,351 --> 00:16:50,991 Speaker 4: of ten years. Yeah, I did a Ninja Warrior for 334 00:16:51,031 --> 00:16:52,711 Speaker 4: a few years, did the show. 335 00:16:52,471 --> 00:16:53,871 Speaker 1: And what was that like? 336 00:16:55,711 --> 00:16:58,071 Speaker 4: Look, I was more into the competition than I was 337 00:16:58,111 --> 00:17:02,151 Speaker 4: the production stead, to be honest. So it was a 338 00:17:02,191 --> 00:17:05,111 Speaker 4: lot of hard work for a very period of You know, 339 00:17:07,631 --> 00:17:09,551 Speaker 4: it wasn't even that for me because I actually tore 340 00:17:09,631 --> 00:17:12,631 Speaker 4: my bicep tend and before I went out, and so 341 00:17:12,911 --> 00:17:15,311 Speaker 4: I basically had to just dive into the water because 342 00:17:15,311 --> 00:17:18,271 Speaker 4: my arm was hanging off so stop. But my whole 343 00:17:18,271 --> 00:17:20,951 Speaker 4: family was there and so I couldn't just pull out. 344 00:17:20,991 --> 00:17:23,071 Speaker 4: My kids had been sitting there literally for twelve hours 345 00:17:23,071 --> 00:17:24,631 Speaker 4: waiting for me to come out. So I was like, 346 00:17:24,711 --> 00:17:29,991 Speaker 4: I'm going out anyway. But yeah, I do ultra marathons, 347 00:17:30,071 --> 00:17:33,351 Speaker 4: and you know, went with Joshi Kremer and a bunch 348 00:17:33,391 --> 00:17:36,751 Speaker 4: of the other boys and girls a couple of years 349 00:17:36,791 --> 00:17:39,711 Speaker 4: ago to do Everest Base Camp, And so I'm always 350 00:17:39,791 --> 00:17:42,831 Speaker 4: kind of looking for things that are physical but are 351 00:17:42,871 --> 00:17:46,631 Speaker 4: going to push me mentally, Like I hate running, for instance, 352 00:17:46,671 --> 00:17:48,991 Speaker 4: Like I really don't enjoy running, but I actually enjoy 353 00:17:49,071 --> 00:17:51,951 Speaker 4: the the head from it, to be honest, Like I 354 00:17:52,031 --> 00:17:54,751 Speaker 4: enjoy that process of how far can I push myself 355 00:17:54,871 --> 00:17:57,111 Speaker 4: until literally my legs are going to give way and 356 00:17:57,111 --> 00:17:59,791 Speaker 4: I'm going to fall down on the ground. That's I 357 00:17:59,831 --> 00:18:01,951 Speaker 4: guess some of the physical stuff I do some of 358 00:18:01,951 --> 00:18:04,311 Speaker 4: the other I really try and engage nature as much 359 00:18:04,351 --> 00:18:06,231 Speaker 4: as possible. Like people have probably heard me say a 360 00:18:06,271 --> 00:18:08,351 Speaker 4: few times in different places that I spend more of 361 00:18:08,391 --> 00:18:12,311 Speaker 4: my free time talking with dead people and trees than 362 00:18:12,351 --> 00:18:14,591 Speaker 4: I actually do with living people or reading books that 363 00:18:14,631 --> 00:18:18,511 Speaker 4: were want beautiful trees. And that works for me, you know, 364 00:18:18,591 --> 00:18:22,191 Speaker 4: Like I've been fortunate enough to be able to learn 365 00:18:22,191 --> 00:18:24,191 Speaker 4: how to sit down and allow myself to let go 366 00:18:24,231 --> 00:18:26,391 Speaker 4: of the ego and just accept myself as a part 367 00:18:26,431 --> 00:18:29,511 Speaker 4: of nature and therefore to learn from nature. And I've 368 00:18:29,511 --> 00:18:31,551 Speaker 4: had some of the most important lessons in my life 369 00:18:31,711 --> 00:18:34,951 Speaker 4: from just sitting and observing and listening to what's going 370 00:18:34,991 --> 00:18:38,191 Speaker 4: on around me. And yeah, so that means sometimes I 371 00:18:38,231 --> 00:18:40,471 Speaker 4: do sit there and I ask questions of our ancestors, 372 00:18:40,551 --> 00:18:43,271 Speaker 4: and I allow myself to just sit there and wait 373 00:18:43,391 --> 00:18:45,991 Speaker 4: till I hear the answers that I need to hear. 374 00:18:46,751 --> 00:18:49,551 Speaker 4: I'll sit there and I'll just you know, sit with 375 00:18:49,631 --> 00:18:52,751 Speaker 4: a really old forest tree that's been around for hundreds 376 00:18:52,791 --> 00:18:54,391 Speaker 4: of years, longer than I'm ever going to have the 377 00:18:54,391 --> 00:18:57,311 Speaker 4: opportunity to be on this planet, and just ask it 378 00:18:57,511 --> 00:19:00,511 Speaker 4: about questions about life. What is it to live like? 379 00:19:00,591 --> 00:19:04,471 Speaker 4: What is it to experience life in its fullest through 380 00:19:04,551 --> 00:19:06,471 Speaker 4: anything that can be thrown at us. Because some of 381 00:19:06,471 --> 00:19:08,151 Speaker 4: those trees they've sat with, you know, they've been here 382 00:19:08,191 --> 00:19:11,471 Speaker 4: for four hundred, five hundred years. They've seen things that 383 00:19:11,551 --> 00:19:14,031 Speaker 4: I'm never going to experience, but they're still standing strong. 384 00:19:14,911 --> 00:19:17,471 Speaker 4: And I think the trick is letting go of the ego. 385 00:19:17,551 --> 00:19:20,951 Speaker 4: I think as human beings, at times, we've allowed ourselves 386 00:19:20,951 --> 00:19:24,351 Speaker 4: to be fooled into believing we're more than rather than 387 00:19:24,511 --> 00:19:27,351 Speaker 4: just part of and that's switched off a part of 388 00:19:27,391 --> 00:19:29,391 Speaker 4: our inateability to connect with. 389 00:19:31,431 --> 00:19:33,831 Speaker 3: All I keep thinking about now is I live on 390 00:19:33,871 --> 00:19:37,351 Speaker 3: Cabbycobby Country, and I'll be honest with your brother, in 391 00:19:37,351 --> 00:19:39,431 Speaker 3: the last two years of living on two acres, I've 392 00:19:39,471 --> 00:19:41,391 Speaker 3: probably touched that grass three times. 393 00:19:43,031 --> 00:19:44,831 Speaker 1: And people don't realize. 394 00:19:44,951 --> 00:19:47,031 Speaker 3: And I say this to everyone, you don't need to 395 00:19:47,071 --> 00:19:49,911 Speaker 3: go back to country, which for some of us it's 396 00:19:49,951 --> 00:19:54,111 Speaker 3: financially not possible to go back to country. But just 397 00:19:54,191 --> 00:19:58,111 Speaker 3: taking your shoes off and putting your feet into mother 398 00:19:58,231 --> 00:20:02,911 Speaker 3: Earth and recharging your batteries can actually happen in your backyard. 399 00:20:03,991 --> 00:20:06,391 Speaker 3: You don't have to go back, you know. I'm in 400 00:20:06,431 --> 00:20:08,871 Speaker 3: Kobikby Country. I'm from Rentfern, my dad's from such a 401 00:20:08,951 --> 00:20:10,951 Speaker 3: queens and it's just not possible for me to get 402 00:20:10,951 --> 00:20:12,111 Speaker 3: in the car and drive ten hours. 403 00:20:12,191 --> 00:20:13,831 Speaker 4: Yeah, for sure. It's the same for me, you know, 404 00:20:13,911 --> 00:20:17,111 Speaker 4: like my mom originally from downsort of Tamworth, Gunnada, Manilla area, 405 00:20:17,231 --> 00:20:19,991 Speaker 4: Like it's eight hour drive, twelve hours with my kids 406 00:20:20,031 --> 00:20:22,391 Speaker 4: in the car. So I don't get to go back 407 00:20:22,431 --> 00:20:24,871 Speaker 4: to my immediate part of country as often as i'd 408 00:20:24,911 --> 00:20:27,151 Speaker 4: like to. But what I have been able to learn 409 00:20:27,151 --> 00:20:29,911 Speaker 4: over time, you know, I've been really fortunate to sit 410 00:20:29,951 --> 00:20:32,751 Speaker 4: down with a lot of our old healers and law 411 00:20:32,791 --> 00:20:36,191 Speaker 4: people around the country and to actually understand how I 412 00:20:36,191 --> 00:20:41,191 Speaker 4: guess those that connection and that energy passes through all 413 00:20:41,191 --> 00:20:43,991 Speaker 4: of country, Like it doesn't matter where I stand. If 414 00:20:44,031 --> 00:20:47,511 Speaker 4: I'm standing, you know, in the dirt, every grain of 415 00:20:47,511 --> 00:20:49,911 Speaker 4: that dirt connects to the next grain and eventually it 416 00:20:49,951 --> 00:20:52,471 Speaker 4: all leads back to my country. Same as if I'm 417 00:20:52,551 --> 00:20:54,631 Speaker 4: on the beach at Burly Heads, Like if I'm in 418 00:20:54,671 --> 00:20:57,351 Speaker 4: the water there, well, that water flows all the way 419 00:20:57,391 --> 00:20:59,391 Speaker 4: down to wherever the rivers may be flowing out into 420 00:20:59,471 --> 00:21:03,111 Speaker 4: the ocean somewhere else. So connection exists everywhere. Again, sometimes 421 00:21:03,151 --> 00:21:05,911 Speaker 4: we don't all ourselves to look for what is available. 422 00:21:05,951 --> 00:21:08,911 Speaker 4: We get so stuck on what isn't available, what don't 423 00:21:08,911 --> 00:21:12,311 Speaker 4: I have? What have I lost? Rather than what is available? 424 00:21:12,551 --> 00:21:13,711 Speaker 4: And how can I use that? 425 00:21:14,831 --> 00:21:17,871 Speaker 3: Interesting about talking about what's available what I've lost, Because 426 00:21:17,911 --> 00:21:19,111 Speaker 3: I was just going to ask you about some of 427 00:21:19,111 --> 00:21:23,991 Speaker 3: the challenges within working in the mental health space and 428 00:21:24,031 --> 00:21:28,071 Speaker 3: with systems and people that don't quite get it yet. 429 00:21:28,111 --> 00:21:30,911 Speaker 3: What are some of the challenges I think that you're 430 00:21:30,911 --> 00:21:31,591 Speaker 3: facing today. 431 00:21:31,791 --> 00:21:35,991 Speaker 4: The biggest challenge is feeling like the constant advice that 432 00:21:36,071 --> 00:21:39,751 Speaker 4: you're giving is not being taken or not being taken 433 00:21:39,831 --> 00:21:40,631 Speaker 4: seriously anyway. 434 00:21:40,671 --> 00:21:40,831 Speaker 2: You know. 435 00:21:41,911 --> 00:21:43,351 Speaker 4: It's one of the issues I've had for a long 436 00:21:43,391 --> 00:21:45,951 Speaker 4: time is we're always asked to be on advisory committees. 437 00:21:45,951 --> 00:21:48,271 Speaker 4: We're always asked to give up our knowledge, to give 438 00:21:48,351 --> 00:21:51,831 Speaker 4: up our experiences, and we're told that it's for the 439 00:21:51,831 --> 00:21:56,591 Speaker 4: betterment of us, that it's going to help improve systems, processes, policies, etc. 440 00:21:56,951 --> 00:21:59,831 Speaker 4: For us. But my personal experience has been that we 441 00:21:59,871 --> 00:22:02,351 Speaker 4: give far more than what we actually see change come 442 00:22:02,391 --> 00:22:05,831 Speaker 4: from in that so I'm a lot more guarded I 443 00:22:05,831 --> 00:22:08,351 Speaker 4: think these days, who in where I choose to give. 444 00:22:08,631 --> 00:22:11,191 Speaker 4: But at the same time, I do believe that getting 445 00:22:11,271 --> 00:22:15,391 Speaker 4: changes within systems and within policy is our best opportunity 446 00:22:15,431 --> 00:22:18,071 Speaker 4: to make broad change that can impact as many people 447 00:22:18,111 --> 00:22:20,431 Speaker 4: as possible. So I spend a lot of my time 448 00:22:20,471 --> 00:22:23,951 Speaker 4: now engaging with politicians because I feel I've got thick 449 00:22:23,991 --> 00:22:27,271 Speaker 4: skin and I've got the coping mechanisms in place to 450 00:22:27,311 --> 00:22:29,671 Speaker 4: deal with some of the rubbish that can at times 451 00:22:29,671 --> 00:22:34,471 Speaker 4: come with that. But two, I do believe that if 452 00:22:34,471 --> 00:22:36,871 Speaker 4: I can infiltrate if I can get through even to 453 00:22:36,911 --> 00:22:39,191 Speaker 4: its one minister within that cabinet and then they have 454 00:22:39,271 --> 00:22:42,151 Speaker 4: a talk to somebody else that that's probably my best 455 00:22:42,191 --> 00:22:46,391 Speaker 4: opportunity to get widespread change, more so than when I'm 456 00:22:46,431 --> 00:22:47,871 Speaker 4: just working one on one with people. 457 00:22:48,471 --> 00:22:50,951 Speaker 3: Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule 458 00:22:50,991 --> 00:22:55,031 Speaker 3: here in Sydney to jump on the podcast. If there's 459 00:22:55,071 --> 00:23:00,471 Speaker 3: one words of wisdom, last something to leave with our listeners, 460 00:23:01,191 --> 00:23:04,791 Speaker 3: what would it be when it comes to yeah, social 461 00:23:04,831 --> 00:23:06,231 Speaker 3: emotional wellbeing. 462 00:23:06,831 --> 00:23:09,551 Speaker 4: Don't be afraid to go on your learning journey. I 463 00:23:09,551 --> 00:23:11,431 Speaker 4: think that's the biggest issue we have at the moment, 464 00:23:11,511 --> 00:23:15,151 Speaker 4: is that we're convinced by others that we shouldn't or 465 00:23:15,151 --> 00:23:17,631 Speaker 4: that we don't have the right to, or all this 466 00:23:17,671 --> 00:23:19,431 Speaker 4: other stuff that gets in the way of us just 467 00:23:19,471 --> 00:23:21,871 Speaker 4: doing what we actually innately know is best for us, 468 00:23:21,911 --> 00:23:24,471 Speaker 4: and that's just continue our journey. And it doesn't matter 469 00:23:24,471 --> 00:23:26,671 Speaker 4: where you're on that The first steps the hardest part. 470 00:23:27,871 --> 00:23:30,031 Speaker 4: So always look for what is it that I already 471 00:23:30,071 --> 00:23:32,991 Speaker 4: have available to me now to just take that first 472 00:23:33,031 --> 00:23:35,871 Speaker 4: step and that allow me to then get a little 473 00:23:35,911 --> 00:23:37,991 Speaker 4: further along the journey and to figure out, you know 474 00:23:38,031 --> 00:23:39,911 Speaker 4: who or what else do I need to continue on 475 00:23:39,911 --> 00:23:40,951 Speaker 4: that journey. 476 00:23:40,711 --> 00:23:42,031 Speaker 1: Deadly well, thank you. 477 00:23:42,271 --> 00:23:45,911 Speaker 3: I'm just really happy that we've been able to get 478 00:23:45,951 --> 00:23:52,791 Speaker 3: your amazing insight and knowledge and experiences into this amazing 479 00:23:52,831 --> 00:23:55,671 Speaker 3: podcast partnership, and I can't wait to work with you 480 00:23:55,711 --> 00:23:56,431 Speaker 3: in the near future. 481 00:23:56,511 --> 00:23:58,231 Speaker 4: Absolutely really appreciate the opportunity. 482 00:23:59,431 --> 00:23:59,831 Speaker 1: Thank you. 483 00:24:02,671 --> 00:24:06,311 Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning in to mental fitness conversations. Keep building 484 00:24:06,311 --> 00:24:09,271 Speaker 2: your emotional muscles with the free Mental Fitness Gym app, 485 00:24:09,351 --> 00:24:13,111 Speaker 2: packed with tools, tips, and everyday actions to support your 486 00:24:13,151 --> 00:24:16,111 Speaker 2: mental fitness. Download it from the App Store or Google 487 00:24:16,151 --> 00:24:20,311 Speaker 2: play Store, or visit the Mentalfitnessgym dot org. If anything 488 00:24:20,391 --> 00:24:23,111 Speaker 2: in this episode brought something up for you, you don't have 489 00:24:23,191 --> 00:24:25,951 Speaker 2: to worry alone. Reach out to a trusted friend or 490 00:24:26,031 --> 00:24:29,311 Speaker 2: family member and know that support is available. You can 491 00:24:29,351 --> 00:24:32,991 Speaker 2: contact Lifeline on one three, double one, one four or 492 00:24:33,071 --> 00:24:36,551 Speaker 2: one three yarn at one three nine, two seven six 493 00:24:36,671 --> 00:24:41,031 Speaker 2: for free and confidential support for Aboriginal and torrostrad Islander people. 494 00:24:41,791 --> 00:24:44,511 Speaker 2: If you enjoyed this episode, leave us a rating, share 495 00:24:44,551 --> 00:24:47,191 Speaker 2: it with someone in your village, or drop us a message. 496 00:24:47,231 --> 00:24:49,551 Speaker 2: We'd love to hear what you think, and don't forget 497 00:24:49,591 --> 00:24:52,151 Speaker 2: to follow Black Magic Woman and Gotcha for Life on 498 00:24:52,271 --> 00:24:54,671 Speaker 2: all socials to keep the conversation going.