1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Good morning everybody, and welcome to another week of the 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Daily OS. It is Monday, the twentieth of June. I 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: hope you're all feeling fresh after a great weekend. It 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 1: was the Logis last night. Congratulations to all the winners there, Zara. 5 00:00:13,119 --> 00:00:15,200 Speaker 1: On today's podcast, we're going to be circling back to 6 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: the crisis in Ukraine. It's been one hundred and sixteen 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:22,440 Speaker 1: days since Russia first invaded the country. We'll check in 8 00:00:22,600 --> 00:00:26,160 Speaker 1: and tell you about the latest developments. But first, Zara, 9 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: what is making headlines this Monday morning. 10 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:32,440 Speaker 2: There was a fairly massive story over the weekend with 11 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:37,160 Speaker 2: the UK government approving the extradition of Australian Julian Assange 12 00:00:37,200 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 2: to the United States. Assange has fourteen days to appeal 13 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,120 Speaker 2: the decision, and a spokesperson from the UK Home Office 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: said in this case, the UK courts have not found 15 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: that it would be oppressive, unjust or an abusive process 16 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:52,840 Speaker 2: to extradite mister Assange to Asia. 17 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:55,480 Speaker 1: Now and dozens of people have died and millions are 18 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: stranded as a result of severe flooding in parts of 19 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,640 Speaker 1: India and Bangladesh. Both countries have asked for military assistance 20 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: as the flooding seems set to worsen even more, with 21 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: weather officials labeling the volume of rain unprecedented. 22 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 2: Haven't heard about some COVID news in a while, but 23 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: the US Food and Drug Administration the FDA, has authorized 24 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 2: two COVID nineteen vaccines for children under the age of five. 25 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,679 Speaker 2: US President Joe Biden said vaccines could be rolled out 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:26,319 Speaker 2: to the under five age groups as early as next week, 27 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: and that is of course pending CDC approval. Biden said 28 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 2: for parents across the US, today is a day of. 29 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 1: Relief and your Monday morning. Good news comes from New 30 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: South Wales, where Premier Dominique Perrete has announced the Aboriginal 31 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: flag will be permanently installed on the Sydney Harbor Bridge 32 00:01:42,240 --> 00:01:45,280 Speaker 1: by the end of this year. The government will allocate 33 00:01:45,319 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: twenty five million bucks in the budget for the installation. 34 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: Sam The nature of the twenty four hour news cycle 35 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 2: means that stories can often disappear as fast as they arrive, 36 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: and it's no different for an event as momentous as 37 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 2: Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So in today's episode, we thought 38 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 2: that we'd bring you up to speed on what's been 39 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 2: happening in the region as the invasion enters. It's one 40 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 2: hundred and sixteenth day, Okay, so let's start with some 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 2: of the important numbers. 42 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: The inspiration for this deep dive came from a piece 43 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: that I read yesterday in the New York Times where 44 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:25,400 Speaker 1: they kind of took stock of some of the data 45 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,800 Speaker 1: that has come from Ukraine. But this line really struck me. 46 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 1: They wrote, a war can be measured by many metrics. 47 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:36,160 Speaker 1: Territory one or lost, geopolitical influence increased or diminished, treasure 48 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:39,919 Speaker 1: acquired or resources depleted. But for the people suffering under 49 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:42,920 Speaker 1: the shelling, who hear the whistling of incoming missiles, the 50 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: crack of gunfire on the streets, and the whales of 51 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: loss out of shattered windows, the death toll is the 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: most telling account of a war. So to that death toll, 53 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 1: and the UN says that more than four five hundred 54 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: civilians have been killed and nearly five six hundred have 55 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: been injured. Thousands of combatants have also been killed or 56 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: injured on both sides. Ukrainian President Vladimizelenski said recently as 57 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: many as two hundred Ukrainian soldiers were dying every day. 58 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: More than thirteen million people have fled their homes. According 59 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,800 Speaker 1: to the UN, the death toll from Russia's army is 60 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: much harder to determine, but the Ukrainian military claims more 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,080 Speaker 1: than thirty three thousand Russian soldiers have been killed since 62 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: the war began. 63 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:27,359 Speaker 2: In those initial weeks, I remember that many people went 64 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:31,760 Speaker 2: familiar with President Zelenski and certainly became accustomed to seeing 65 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 2: him front up to many a press conference. Is he 66 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: still front and center? 67 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: He's absolutely the main character in Ukraine. Just yesterday he 68 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: made his first trip to Ukraine's Wartorn southern front, and 69 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 1: the reason he visited that region was that it's where 70 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: Ukrainian forces are mounting a slow moving advance to try 71 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,240 Speaker 1: and recapture some of the territory they have lost. We're 72 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: talking here about cities like Odessa, which had been the 73 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:00,480 Speaker 1: subject of constant shelling from Russian forces. It seemed to 74 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 1: have held out being a target for an on ground invasion. 75 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: There's Zolenski talked to troops and he said, our brave men, 76 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 1: each one of them is working flat out. We will 77 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: definitely hold out. We will definitely win. And when Zelenski's 78 00:04:14,080 --> 00:04:17,599 Speaker 1: not talking to troops in his trademark Khaki arm aware. 79 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: He's met regularly with international leaders actually in Kiev since 80 00:04:21,720 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: Moscow pulled its forces away from the capital city. Last 81 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 1: week he hosted the leaders of Germany, France and the UK. 82 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: I thought a point that was interesting Zara is that 83 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: he started to visit areas which could be described as 84 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: more of fighting hotspots, including Kharkiv in the east of 85 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: the country. Now, this obviously presents risks to the president 86 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: and his team, safety risks, but he seems more set 87 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: than ever to show both Ukrainians and an international audience 88 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: that Ukraine is in good hands. 89 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: You said at the top of this that we are 90 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 2: on day one hundred and sixteen, and obviously even the 91 00:04:56,680 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 2: closest news watches and those watching from a farkunk heap 92 00:05:00,360 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 2: up with every single day. Can you give me a 93 00:05:03,200 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: sense of how much is happening in one day in 94 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,160 Speaker 2: this devastating conflict. 95 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 1: To be totally honest, it's enough to fill this deep 96 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: dive of this podcast every single day. I went really 97 00:05:13,800 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: deep yesterday to try and understand what happened in a 98 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,840 Speaker 1: twenty four hour period, and the list is extraordinary. There 99 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: was a prisoner exchange where five captured Ukrainians were returned 100 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,240 Speaker 1: to Ukraine in exchange for five captured Russians. Russian missiles 101 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: destroyed a fuel storage depot in eastern Ukraine and a 102 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 1: gas plant in the north. There was a large movement 103 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: of troops to the region of Lushank from other battle zones, 104 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: and that suggests that Russian forces are looking to gain 105 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: full control of cities in that region. Meanwhile, the US 106 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: announced they are considering sending four additional rocket launchers to Ukraine. 107 00:05:47,160 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: All of that happened in one twenty four hour period yesterday. 108 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 2: So, as you just mentioned, supplying weapons has been one 109 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,239 Speaker 2: way to respond to the invasion, but for the West, 110 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: the other way has been imposing sometimes severe sanctions. Do 111 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: we know if those sanctions are deterring Russia at all? 112 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: So, according to numerous media reports, the sanctions imposed by 113 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: Western countries like Australia and the exodus of more than 114 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: a thousand multinationals like McDonald's are starting to bite hard 115 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:18,160 Speaker 1: in Russia, although it's being felt most by ordinary Russians, 116 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,680 Speaker 1: not the oligarch and the government. GDP is expected to 117 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: decline by double digits and inflation is forecast hit twenty 118 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,800 Speaker 1: percent by the end of the year. Now Russia is 119 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: starting to shut down some of their economic reporting, which 120 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: means it is definitely going to get harder for us 121 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: to understand how these sanctions are working inside the country. 122 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: I guess you also have to remember that Russia have 123 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 1: been dealing with sanctions of some kind since twenty fourteen, 124 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: so undoubtedly the current sanctions are more severe than the 125 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 1: previous sanctions, but there is still a sense that Russia 126 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: does know how to run its economy with sanctions in place. 127 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: Of more concern to the international community. Is this idea 128 00:06:56,320 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: that the sanctions could have a boomerang effect. The boomerang 129 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 1: effect is exactly what it sounds like. It's about the 130 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: effects coming back to harm those who impose the sanctions. 131 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: For example, Bloomberg reported this week that White House officials 132 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 1: are getting a bit spooked that the economic measures they 133 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 1: unleashed at the beginning of the war are not exactly working. 134 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: Research conducted by foreign policy magazines suggests that sanctions are 135 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 1: more likely to work in smaller, weaker nations. We've seen 136 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: examples of sanctions being powerful diplomatic tools in places like 137 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: Sierra Leone, the Dominican Republic, and Nepal. We haven't seen 138 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: the same thing in Russia, and it's been as we've 139 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: been saying, one hundred and sixteen days of sanctions. We 140 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: did hear from Russian President Vladimir Putin at the St. 141 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: Petersburg International Economic Forum on Friday. Now. This is an 142 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,400 Speaker 1: event usually held by Russia to showcase their economy to 143 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: thousands of visiting business leaders from around the world, but 144 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: this year it was held with almost no Western attendees. 145 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: Putin said the West was exhibiting colonial arrogance and trying 146 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: to crush his country with stupid sanctions that amounted to 147 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: an economic blitz Creek. Putin also told the forum he 148 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: would continue the war in Ukraine, saying we are strong 149 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 1: people and can cope with any challenge. Like our ancestors, 150 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: we will solve any problem. The entire thousand year history 151 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: of our country speaks of this. 152 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: And I feel like this question was asked a lot 153 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 2: at the beginning, and perhaps less so one hundred and 154 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 2: sixteen days in. But do we have any sense of 155 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,200 Speaker 2: how long this war is going to last? 156 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 1: For there were some comments yesterday from NATO's Secretary General 157 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 1: Jens Stoltenberg. He said it could take years. He said specifically, 158 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: we must prepare for the fact that this could be years. 159 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: We must not let up in supporting Ukraine, and I 160 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: think that's a really important bid. It was echoed by 161 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 1: UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who warned against Ukraine fatigue 162 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: setting in, saying it was important to show that Allies 163 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: were standing with Ukraine for the long haul in its 164 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: war against Russia. In Kiev, this sentiment is being felt 165 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,320 Speaker 1: as well, where the mayor told the BBC his coy 166 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 1: will only enter peace talks after the last Russian soldier 167 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 1: has left Ukraine. So there's a real sense on the 168 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 1: ground that this is a conflict that's here to stay. Now. 169 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: I'm really interested in this idea of Ukraine fatigue, and 170 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: our responsibilities are as journalists to somewhat negate it. I 171 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: was reading an account of a TV journalist in Ukraine 172 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:22,280 Speaker 1: who broadcasts to primarily Americans, who said, quote, it was 173 00:09:22,320 --> 00:09:25,319 Speaker 1: harder to sell a story about Ukraine as people are 174 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: just tired of this war. Now. We knew this was 175 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: coming and it probably was sped up because of the 176 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,880 Speaker 1: Australian election, a spate of shootings in the US and 177 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: the economic downturn and now an energy crisis. But we 178 00:09:38,240 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: do have to actively try to remain up to date 179 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: in this important, consequential and tragic conflict. 180 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: I think that that is a good note to end on, 181 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 2: because certainly, if you look at the challenges this country 182 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 2: is facing, at least on an economic front, a lot 183 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 2: of them seem to be tied with what is happening 184 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 2: in the region, and at times it can be difficult 185 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:01,320 Speaker 2: to on an ongoing basis provide that and really engage 186 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: with the war. But the destruction hasn't stopped, the deaths 187 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: haven't stopped, and for the civilians in Ukraine, it's just 188 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 2: a nightmare that continues. So I think that fatigue point 189 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:12,080 Speaker 2: is definitely a good one to end on. 190 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: That's all we've got time for on today's podcast, though 191 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: you can listen to us tomorrow, and if you enjoyed 192 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 1: this podcast, we'd love you to leave a review on 193 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: Apple or a rating on Spotify. It really really helps us. 194 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: Hope you have a good start to the week. We 195 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: will speak to you tomorrow.