Speaker 1: This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother teacher
Speaker 1: friend missing for twenty seven years.
Speaker 2: You know, no sign that she was going to vanish,
Speaker 2: that's for sure.
Speaker 1: The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm not.
Speaker 3: Sure if it was intentional.
Speaker 4: There's something more foul afoot.
Speaker 5: If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from the
Speaker 5: little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was
Speaker 5: Marian Barter.
Speaker 6: What I see.
Speaker 3: Whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive, I honestly
Speaker 3: believe somebody has that key piece of information.
Speaker 1: And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.
Speaker 7: Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.
Speaker 3: I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure
Speaker 3: that somebody knows something.
Speaker 1: The lady vanishes, Episode fifty seven, The Findings. I'm Alison Sandy.
Speaker 8: And I'm Brian Seymour. And here we are New South
Speaker 8: Wales Current's Court at Lidcombe Yep.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 8: I can see a bunch of people wearing green, a
Speaker 8: couple more arriving here, a couple of high fives. Yeah,
Speaker 8: there's going to be a good turnout today. What you'd
Speaker 8: expect lots of people watching online.
Speaker 9: Welcome.
Speaker 8: Ah, it's going to be like thirty five degrees celsius today,
Speaker 8: so maybe hotter out here. It's going to be a
Speaker 8: very hot one. Otherwise, very clear, beautiful day. Yeah, car
Speaker 8: park's about half full. It's still about just over half
Speaker 8: an hour to the coroner gives her long awaited findings.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, yeah. The cafes crowded. There's a lot of
Speaker 8: people here just waiting for the doors to open. Okay,
Speaker 8: let's get in there.
Speaker 1: In the lead up to today, I contacted the office
Speaker 1: of the New South Wales Coroner requesting that we be
Speaker 1: granted access to the brief of evidence compiled by police
Speaker 1: and the video of the police interview with Rick Blum
Speaker 1: from September twenty twenty one. Here's the response I received.
Speaker 4: Her Honor declines the application as the suspected death of
Speaker 4: Marion Barter is an ongoing investigation, even though the coronial
Speaker 4: proceedings will conclude once findings are delivered on Thursday.
Speaker 1: We're not sure what that means. Is the coroner foreshadowing
Speaker 1: that she will be referring the matter to the DP
Speaker 1: or is she just suggesting that the police investigation will
Speaker 1: likely technically remain open even if she makes no particular
Speaker 1: finding about what happened to Marian. Remember, the police told
Speaker 1: us when we started five years ago that the case
Speaker 1: was still ongoing despite having suspended their investigation in twenty eleven.
Speaker 1: We're about to find out.
Speaker 8: Sally and Chris traveled to Sydney yesterday. Allison was on
Speaker 8: the same flight. We all meet outside the New South
Speaker 8: Wales Coroner's Court on this sunny morning, where a crowd
Speaker 8: of supporters, many wearing green memory of Marian is building
Speaker 8: in anticipation of the court opening.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't everything green in my cupboards? Are me?
Speaker 5: I'm kind of lucky, is I have a lot of green,
Speaker 5: so that was kind of a good thing for me.
Speaker 5: It's not too bad. And then I have a really
Speaker 5: nice green shop that I bought.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what we're missing today, that's why. And you followed
Speaker 1: from the beginning.
Speaker 6: Or from twenty maybe.
Speaker 1: It came out a little bit late, but yeah.
Speaker 5: Then a friend put me onto the.
Speaker 1: Podcast and had just been so invested in it since then. Incredible, Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely incredible.
Speaker 10: Well, look I'm missing sale, I said, Look, I'm going
Speaker 10: to come along. I might not get in the courtroom.
Speaker 10: I don't know how many would turn up, and she said, no,
Speaker 10: come definitely, come and come and sit with us. And
Speaker 10: so I'm glad that. I'm glad she's got a good
Speaker 10: turnout here.
Speaker 6: It's wonderful.
Speaker 10: She deserves She's done so well.
Speaker 5: She's She's like a dog with a bone, isn't she.
Speaker 1: Sally's Facebook site missing person marying Barter is flooded with
Speaker 1: images of people in green sending their best wishes from
Speaker 1: all around the world. Likewise, the lady vanishes social media online.
Speaker 1: More than two thousand people are waiting for the live
Speaker 1: stream to begin that will grow to more than fifteen
Speaker 1: thousand by the end the proceedings. The doors open at
Speaker 1: nine forty five.
Speaker 8: Due to the large crowd waiting to get inside, Allison
Speaker 8: stays in the media room while I take a seat
Speaker 8: at the end of a row inside. The large hexagonal
Speaker 8: courtroom quickly fills with supporters. The rest about thirty people
Speaker 8: go to a separate viewing room in the front row.
Speaker 8: Sally sits with Chris, her best friend Ray and Joni
Speaker 8: Counsel assisting Adam Casseleden is at the legal bench along
Speaker 8: with Sally's lawyer Brad Smith, and the legal representatives for
Speaker 8: New South Wales Police. Rick Bloom's lawyer, mister White, is
Speaker 8: appearing remotely, but the audio visual link meets with technical difficulties.
Speaker 8: We can hear his dog barking and that elicits a
Speaker 8: loud burst of laughter before mister White informs the court
Speaker 8: he's not in a proper condition to appear on video.
Speaker 8: There is no sign of Rick Bloom himself. Coroner Teresa
Speaker 8: so Sullivan enters the court. Everyone stands and bows. The
Speaker 8: lawyers announce themselves and the coroner begins.
Speaker 2: I'd especially like to acknowledge Marion's daughter, Sally Laden, Marian's
Speaker 2: son in law chris Leyden, and her grandchildren. My thoughts
Speaker 2: are with you today.
Speaker 8: Once again, we are using voice actors to represent the
Speaker 8: court's proceedings. Legally, we are not allowed to publish recordings.
Speaker 8: The coroner says her full findings are very long, so
Speaker 8: she'll only read a shorter summary and the complete findings
Speaker 8: will be available when she closes the inquest.
Speaker 1: First, she revisits the facts. Marion Barter was last sighted
Speaker 1: on June twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, by her friend
Speaker 1: Leslie Loveday, who dropped her at a gold Coast Bus Depot.
Speaker 1: Unbeknownst to her family, she had changed her name by
Speaker 1: d poll to Flora Bella Natalia Marion Ramkeel, and a
Speaker 1: passport was issued in that name on May twenty, nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven. The passport was recorded as departing Brisbane Airport
Speaker 1: on June twenty second and returning on August second, nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven. Marion's last recorded contact was a phone called
Speaker 1: A Sally on August the first, and she gave no
Speaker 1: indication she intended to return to Australia the following day.
Speaker 1: Sally made a missing person's report to Byron Bay Police
Speaker 1: on October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, after receiving information
Speaker 1: that significant funds had been withdrawn from her mother's bank
Speaker 1: account in the preceding two months. Coroner O'Sullivan then makes
Speaker 1: clear the parameters in which she worked.
Speaker 2: It's important to explain that an inquest is not a
Speaker 2: criminal case. The witnesses and agencies involved in an inquest
Speaker 2: are not on trial. It is not the role of
Speaker 2: the coroner to attribute blame or to punish any one
Speaker 2: for Marion's disappearance. Further, I am not to make findings
Speaker 2: of civil liability and I have no power to award
Speaker 2: compensation or damages.
Speaker 1: Then the findings begin.
Speaker 2: I find that Marian, under the name of Florabella Natalia
Speaker 2: Marian Remichel, traveled overseas on the twenty second of June
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven. I find that, consistent with Sally's opinion,
Speaker 2: the handwriting on the outgoing passenger card was Marian's, except
Speaker 2: for the words Europe, Luxembourg and s Korea, which were
Speaker 2: not written by Marian. I find that Marian deliberately traveled
Speaker 2: overseas using her new name and took steps to ensure
Speaker 2: that no family or close friend was aware of the
Speaker 2: change of her identity. I find that Marian returned to
Speaker 2: Australia under the name of Florabella Natalia Marian Remichel on
Speaker 2: the second of August nineteen ninety seven, and took steps
Speaker 2: to ensure that no one was aware of her return
Speaker 2: to the country. That Marian did not leave Australia again
Speaker 2: after the second of August nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 8: Council assisting had submitted that court should find Marian withdrew
Speaker 8: a series of sums of five hundred dollars in August
Speaker 8: nineteen ninety seven and attended the Byron Bay branch of
Speaker 8: the Colonial State Bank and facilitated a transfer of eighty
Speaker 8: thousand dollars on fifteen October nineteen ninety seven. This conflicts
Speaker 8: with Sally's recollection from her conversation with a staff member
Speaker 8: from the bank back in October nineteen ninety seven, the
Speaker 8: daily withdrawals of five thousand dollars were being made. However,
Speaker 8: it's understood the coroner made this finding based on the
Speaker 8: memo to the Salvation Army made by Marion's father, John Wilson,
Speaker 8: outlining a series of five hundred dollars withdrawals, as well
Speaker 8: as evidence provided by bank staff that the ATM limit
Speaker 8: was five hundred dollars. O'Sullivan finds that it was Marion
Speaker 8: herself who were ten ended the bank, and that she
Speaker 8: requested the transaction that day and told the bank teller
Speaker 8: that she did not want her whereabouts revealed.
Speaker 2: There is insufficient evidence, however, for me to be able
Speaker 2: to make a finding about her intentions.
Speaker 8: The Coroner makes a lot of findings in regards to Bloom,
Speaker 8: but the ones she reveals in court adjust the pertinent ones.
Speaker 2: I find that the primary motivation for mister Blum's name
Speaker 2: changes was in order to dishonorably represent himself to others,
Speaker 2: and that mister Blum's weak explanation and denials that this
Speaker 2: regard should be wholly rejected. On the tenth of December
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety four, mister Blum placed a personal advertisement in
Speaker 2: French in Licurier Australian under the name of M. F Remichel,
Speaker 2: with an address of lenox Head and a telephone number.
Speaker 2: I find that mister Blum could not satisfactorily explain why
Speaker 2: he opened and used the post office box at lenox
Speaker 2: Head when he had one in Battle, and that the
Speaker 2: only reasonable explanation for the listing of the post office
Speaker 2: box at lennox Head and the telephone number for Ballina
Speaker 2: Cooyn investments in the advertisements was in order for mister
Speaker 2: Blum to keep the advertisement and any response a secret
Speaker 2: from his wife and family.
Speaker 8: The coroner finds that Bloom's evidence in regards to how
Speaker 8: he met up with Marion in nineteen ninety seven is
Speaker 8: unsatisfactory and contradictory. Sally looks impassive and resolute as the
Speaker 8: findings are delivered. Her husband Chris and I frequently lock
Speaker 8: eyes smile and nod, as Sally is repeatedly vindicated by
Speaker 8: the coroner on many fronts, bringing long overdue recognition and
Speaker 8: praise for her perseverance. The findings about Rick Bloom come
Speaker 8: thick and fast.
Speaker 2: I find that there is a sufficient basis to find
Speaker 2: that mister Blum met with Marion on at least three
Speaker 2: occasions between February and May nineteen ninety seven, but mister
Speaker 2: Blum's evidence is too unreliable for any further or more
Speaker 2: particular findings with regard to the coincidence of Marion's change
Speaker 2: of name to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel and mister Blum's
Speaker 2: use of the name Fernand Knuchelus Remachel, I find that
Speaker 2: Marian changed her name to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel because
Speaker 2: she was in a relationship with mister Blum and sought
Speaker 2: to share a name with him.
Speaker 8: She also believes that Marion and Bloom traveled together in England.
Speaker 2: I find that, based on the close proximity of the
Speaker 2: dates of travel and mister Blum's admission he traveled to England,
Speaker 2: and the tendency and coincidental evidence relating to a number
Speaker 2: of other vulnerable women, that Marian and mister Blum traveled
Speaker 2: together in England as a couple in a relationship for
Speaker 2: at least some period of the time when Marion was
Speaker 2: in England in nineteen ninety seven, although.
Speaker 8: Where they traveled together, the Coroner could not definitively say.
Speaker 2: There is insufficient evidence for me to find that mister
Speaker 2: Blum actually traveled to Tunbridge Wells with Marion in June
Speaker 2: or July nineteen ninety seven. Whilst I have found that
Speaker 2: Marion and mister Blum traveled together in England for at
Speaker 2: least some period, there is insufficient evidence for me to
Speaker 2: find that mister Blum actually traveled to Rye Hastings and
Speaker 2: Alfriston with Marion in June or July nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 8: The State Coroner also finds that the notepaper Marian used
Speaker 8: to write a letter to Sally between the twenty second
Speaker 8: and thirtieth of June nineteen ninety seven was taken by
Speaker 8: mister Bloom from the Nico Narita hotel in Japan.
Speaker 2: I find that mister Blum traveled to Japan at the
Speaker 2: relevant time and stayed at the hotel, obtained the notepaper
Speaker 2: and gave it to Marion in England and.
Speaker 8: The reason Luxembourg was written on Marion's passenger card.
Speaker 2: With regard to the coincidence of Marion's purported residence as
Speaker 2: Luxembourg and mister Blom's close association with Luxembourg, I find
Speaker 2: that mister Blum, representing himself Fernand Remichel, suggested to Marian
Speaker 2: that they start a new life together in Luxembourg.
Speaker 8: And as for any connection between Bloom and the large
Speaker 8: withdrawals from Marion's bank account.
Speaker 2: With regard to the coincidence of mister Blum's application for
Speaker 2: a safety deposit envelope in October nineteen ninety seven, a
Speaker 2: day before Marion transferred eighty thousand dollars from her account,
Speaker 2: I find that there is a sufficient factual basis to
Speaker 2: make a finding that Marian withdrew the sums of money
Speaker 2: from August nineteen ninety seven and transferred eighty thousand dollars
Speaker 2: to an unknown account in October nineteen ninety seven on
Speaker 2: the encouragement of mister Blum and in circumstances where Marion
Speaker 2: believed she was in a relationship with him. However, there
Speaker 2: is not enough evidence for finding to the requisite standard
Speaker 2: as to whether and when mister Bloom actually received some
Speaker 2: or all of Marion's money. With regard to the evidence
Speaker 2: of the use of Marion's money to start a school overseas,
Speaker 2: while certainly conceivable, such a finding is not supported by
Speaker 2: the evidence. With regard to the evidence of mister Blum's
Speaker 2: dishonest relationships with vulnerable women, I find that the evidence
Speaker 2: of Jeanette Gafney Bowen, Janet Oldenburg, Guilaine Dubois, Dan Lois,
Speaker 2: Andrea Flumm and demonstrates a tendency on the part of
Speaker 2: mister Blum to misrepresent himself to single vulnerable women for
Speaker 2: financial gain. And Further, I find that mister Blum had
Speaker 2: a tendency to exploit vulnerable women. I also find that
Speaker 2: mister Blum exploited Marion in nineteen ninety seven in the
Speaker 2: manner in which he later exploited other women who gave
Speaker 2: evidence in these proceedings. I make this finding despite mister
Speaker 2: Blum's denials in this regard, and notwithstanding that the women
Speaker 2: involved in his later relationships remained alive and well. I
Speaker 2: find that mister Bloom entered into a relationship with Marion
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety seven, and encouraged her to start a
Speaker 2: new life with him. To this end, Marian changed her name,
Speaker 2: spent some time with mister Blom in England, and on
Speaker 2: return to Australia, represented herself as married to mister Bloom
Speaker 2: and demonstrated an intention to start a new life in
Speaker 2: Luxembourg with him. Mister Blom traveled to England to spend
Speaker 2: time with Marion when he clearly did not intend to
Speaker 2: pursue the relationship because he was married with children and
Speaker 2: lived in Wollongbach in New South Wales.
Speaker 8: Corone O'Sullivan notes that she's made written findings in regards
Speaker 8: to the evidence of Jeanette Gaffney Bowen, Janet Oldenburg, Gulaine
Speaker 8: Duins de Lois, Andre Flammay, and the woman we've always
Speaker 8: referred to as Charlotte. She does not read those findings
Speaker 8: out in court, but does say she accepts the evidence
Speaker 8: of all four women, before then returning her attention back
Speaker 8: to Bloom.
Speaker 2: Mister Blum's evidence is of great importance in these proceedings.
Speaker 2: It is necessary for the court to assess his credibility.
Speaker 2: In short, I do not accept as accurate anything that
Speaker 2: mister Blum has said in evidence. In the absence of
Speaker 2: independent corroborating evidence, I find that mister Blum, whilst in
Speaker 2: an intimate relationship with Marion, persuaded or otherwise encouraged her
Speaker 2: to sell her house in nineteen ninety seven. The evidence
Speaker 2: is not sufficient to prove that mister Blum played any
Speaker 2: causative role in Marian's decision to resign from her employment.
Speaker 2: With regard to the role of mister Blum and the
Speaker 2: storage of Marion's tea chests at his house, I find
Speaker 2: that there is a sufficient factual basis for me to
Speaker 2: make a finding that Marian agreed with a proposal by
Speaker 2: mister Blum for him to take possession of some of
Speaker 2: her belongings before she traveled to Europe. I make this
Speaker 2: finding based on the stark similarities with the evidence of
Speaker 2: Miss Dubois dan Lois that in two thousand and six
Speaker 2: mister Blum suggested and facilitated the packing and purported shipping
Speaker 2: of trunks of her possessions to Australia. However, I find
Speaker 2: mister Blum's account of the storage of three or four
Speaker 2: tea chests and the existence of an unknown man in
Speaker 2: uniform who was planning to travel with Marion is implausible
Speaker 2: with regard to whether mister Blum played any role in
Speaker 2: Marion's life after she returned to Australia. There is a
Speaker 2: sufficient basis for me to make a finding that mister
Speaker 2: Blum was in communication with Marion and played some role
Speaker 2: in her life following her return to Australia in August
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven. Mister Blum's evidence in the final days
Speaker 2: of the inquest, when asked by counsel assisting, would you
Speaker 2: like to say anything further in relation to the disappearance
Speaker 2: of Marion Barter, was extraordinary.
Speaker 1: You might recall, on the eve of the last day
Speaker 1: of giving evidence, mister Blum suddenly volunteered a conversation he
Speaker 1: claims he had with Marion the last time he saw
Speaker 1: her before she traveled overseas. He said she told him
Speaker 1: she no longer wanted anything to do with her family
Speaker 1: and was cutting off all contact.
Speaker 8: It was the first time he had made that claim.
Speaker 8: He never once told it to police, lawyers or the
Speaker 8: coroner in the previous two years. It was a stunning
Speaker 8: turn of events and one that clearly impacted heavily on
Speaker 8: Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan.
Speaker 2: This evidence, along with his lies and deception throughout the
Speaker 2: inquest has convinced me that he does indeed no more
Speaker 2: than he is saying. I make the following further findings
Speaker 2: regarding mister Bloom. Firstly, that he has further knowledge about
Speaker 2: the circumstances of Marian's travel overseas. Secondly, that he has
Speaker 2: further knowledge of his relationship with her in the months
Speaker 2: prior to her disappearance. Thirdly, he has further knowledge of
Speaker 2: her circumstances following her return from overseas. Fourthly, that he
Speaker 2: has further knowledge of the withdrawals and transfer of her money.
Speaker 2: And Finally, that there is a sufficient basis for a
Speaker 2: finding that he was and is deliberately unwilling to divulge
Speaker 2: this further knowledge to the court.
Speaker 1: Teresa O'Sullivan then focuses on New South Wales Police.
Speaker 2: Having considered all the evidence tended in the submissions made,
Speaker 2: I find that the nature and adequacy of the police
Speaker 2: investigation into the disappearance of Marian by New South Wales
Speaker 2: Police between her disappearance in nineteen ninety seven up until
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen was not adequate. It is clear from the
Speaker 2: evidence that following the initial report made by Sally to
Speaker 2: Byron Bay Police Station on the twenty second of October
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety seven, that very little was done to investigate
Speaker 2: Marion's whereabouts until approximately ten years later in two thousand
Speaker 2: and seven. I find that the police investigation into the
Speaker 2: disappearance of Marian by New South Wales Police from the
Speaker 2: report on the twenty second of October nineteen ninety seven
Speaker 2: up until two thousand and seven was not conducted in
Speaker 2: an appropriate and timely manner and not consistent with the
Speaker 2: relevant policy enforced within New South Wales Police at the time.
Speaker 2: I find that Detective Senior Constable Schian should not have
Speaker 2: reclassified Marian as located.
Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, the coroner lists specific findings in regards
Speaker 1: to the police investigation, including six of the eleven proposed
Speaker 1: by Sally Leyden and her legal team. One that seeing it,
Speaker 1: Constable Graham Child's should not have classified Sally's report made
Speaker 1: on the twenty second of October nineteen ninety seven of
Speaker 1: her mother being missing as an occurrence only event. Two
Speaker 1: that Graham Childs was unaware of the definition of a
Speaker 1: missing person in Commissioner's instruction, and that he classified the
Speaker 1: report as an occurrence only based on his own subjective
Speaker 1: view of the sense of urgency. Three that it was
Speaker 1: unsatisfactory and inappropriate for Graham Child's not to have reclassified
Speaker 1: the event from an occurrence only to an active investigation.
Speaker 1: Four that as a result of failures at the first
Speaker 1: reporting of Marion Barter's disappearance, her case was not investigated
Speaker 1: for almost ten years until two thousand and seven, and
Speaker 1: that led to the unavailability of crucial evidence. Five That
Speaker 1: Maryon Barter was listed as a missing person for the
Speaker 1: first time on the sixth of July two thousand seven
Speaker 1: by Senior Constable joe Anne Williams as a result of
Speaker 1: being contacted by Rebecca Cotts of the Australian Federal Police
Speaker 1: Missing Persons Unit. Six That Detective Senior Constable Gary Shehan's
Speaker 1: decision to recommend that Maryon Barter be removed from the
Speaker 1: missing person's register on the twenty second of September two
Speaker 1: thousand eleven was incorrect and Marion should not have been
Speaker 1: classified as located in two thousand and eleven.
Speaker 8: The coroner agrees that there should be no suggestion that
Speaker 8: Sally in any way delayed the investigation by New South
Speaker 8: Wales Police or behaved in a manner that can be
Speaker 8: described as anything other than understandable and consistent with a
Speaker 8: daughter very confused and anxious at finding out about out
Speaker 8: her mother's circumstances. Teresa O'Sullivan also notes that the resistance
Speaker 8: in this inquest by New South Wales Police to accept
Speaker 8: the inadequacies of the initial police investigation is difficult to understand,
Speaker 8: especially given the very clear evidence of Detective Chief Inspector
Speaker 8: Brown about what should have happened in nineteen ninety seven. Finally,
Speaker 8: the formal findings, what does the coroner believe happened to
Speaker 8: Marian Barter?
Speaker 2: As a result of having considered all of the documentary evidence,
Speaker 2: the oral evidence given at the inquest and submissions, I find,
Speaker 2: on the balance of probabilities that Florabella Natalia Marian Remichel,
Speaker 2: formerly known as Marion Barter, is deceased. While I am
Speaker 2: unable to determine the exact date of death, I find
Speaker 2: that Marian is likely to have died on a date
Speaker 2: after the fifteenth of October nineteen ninety seven. I'm unable
Speaker 2: to determine the place of Marian's death. I'm unable to
Speaker 2: determine the cause of Marion's death. I'm unable to determine
Speaker 2: the manner of Marian's death. Marian's remains have not been
Speaker 2: found and the available evidence does not allow me to
Speaker 2: make findings as to the possible cause and manner of
Speaker 2: Marian's death. However, the circumstances surrounding Marian's disappearance are troubling. Accordingly,
Speaker 2: I make the following recommendation to the new South Wales
Speaker 2: Commissioner of Police. I recommend that the new South Wales
Speaker 2: Commissioner of Police calls the investigation into the death of
Speaker 2: missing person Floribella Natalia Marion Remicel, formerly known as Marion Barter,
Speaker 2: to be referred or to remain within the State Crime
Speaker 2: Command Unsolved Homicide Team for ongoing investigation, review and monitoring.
Speaker 2: The family submitted that the court should formerly refer mister
Speaker 2: Blum to the Director of Public Prosecutions or the Attorney
Speaker 2: General to consider charges of either perjury or making a
Speaker 2: false statement. I am of the view that any referral
Speaker 2: of mister Blum to the Director of Public Prosecutions or
Speaker 2: the Attorney General to consider charges of perjury or false
Speaker 2: statements on oath is a matter best left for the
Speaker 2: police investigators, particularly considering the investigation has not concluded.
Speaker 8: The coroner emphasizes that the five hundred thousand dollars reward
Speaker 8: for information leading to the arrest and conviction of any
Speaker 8: person or persons responsible for Marian's disappearance still stands.
Speaker 2: I strongly encourage any member of the public who has
Speaker 2: any information relating to the disappearance of Marion Barter or
Speaker 2: information relating to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel to come forward
Speaker 2: and to sh share that information with New South Wales Police.
Speaker 1: She also confirms that a DNA profile from a sample
Speaker 1: provided by Sally Laden has been uploaded to the New
Speaker 1: South Wales and National DNA databases for continuous searching against
Speaker 1: any unidentified human remains. In closing Corona, O'Sullivan commends the
Speaker 1: legal representatives, especially the Council Assisting team Adam Castleden, Tracy
Speaker 1: Stephens and Clara Patocki. She expresses gratitude to the work
Speaker 1: carried out by New South Wales Police Detectives Inspector Nigel Warren,
Speaker 1: Sergeant Sasha Panazza and Senior Constable Lisa Pisotto, and has
Speaker 1: a special message for Sally Lyden.
Speaker 2: I'd like to acknowledge and commend Sally on her unwavering
Speaker 2: commitment and participation in the coronial investigation and in quest
Speaker 2: to find out what happened to her mother. She has
Speaker 2: shown fortitude, dignity, resilience and grace throughout these proceedings. I
Speaker 2: express my sympathy and condolences to Sally, Chris Bronwin, Deirdre Lee,
Speaker 2: Marian's grandchildren, Marian's family, friends and loved ones, and the
Speaker 2: many people that Marian touched in her life. I would
Speaker 2: like to again acknowledge that the experience of grief for
Speaker 2: the family of a missing person is complex and difficult,
Speaker 2: and there remain many unanswered questions. Finally, I'd like to
Speaker 2: conclude by acknowledging and recognizing the person that Marian was
Speaker 2: to her family, friends and loved ones. Witnesses who provided
Speaker 2: statements and evidence at the inquest described Marian as a
Speaker 2: loving and caring person who had a fondness for antiques
Speaker 2: and the arts, who could easily make friends, and was
Speaker 2: also a gifted teacher. It is fitting to end with
Speaker 2: the words shared by Sally to the court, reading from
Speaker 2: the family's statement, in which she described Marion as a kind,
Speaker 2: caring soul with a wicked laugh. She was intelligent, she
Speaker 2: was cultured, and she had so many friends who loved
Speaker 2: and miss her. Still. She would always bring you flowers
Speaker 2: a ra cake. She was a very generous human. I
Speaker 2: close this inquest.
Speaker 8: This is both wonderful and frustrating for the Lady Vanish's team.
Speaker 8: On the one hand, the coroner has referred Marian's death
Speaker 8: to the New South Wales Police to be investigated as
Speaker 8: an unsolved homicide, but she stopped short of referring any
Speaker 8: person to the Director of Public Prosecutions the DPP to
Speaker 8: consider laying criminal charges. There are, however, serious findings about
Speaker 8: mister Rick Bloom. It's a lot to take in, and
Speaker 8: Sally confers with the Channel seven lawyers who have been
Speaker 8: with her throughout out the two and a half year
Speaker 8: long in quest. Outside, her supporters are digesting what they've
Speaker 8: just heard.
Speaker 11: I'm glad with what we heard obviously today, but it
Speaker 11: could have been a bit more for our best types.
Speaker 11: But I think a lot Sally's really been vindicated with
Speaker 11: what she's how she's handled herself through all these years,
Speaker 11: and I just hope that the police pursue it to
Speaker 11: their full, you know, full capabilities, and someone.
Speaker 8: Gets charged with something important.
Speaker 5: My name is Terry from Sydney.
Speaker 12: Who's here from Senior too?
Speaker 8: And how did you hear about this case?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 8: I just have it.
Speaker 12: I'm a podcast listener, like all kinds of podcast. When
Speaker 12: I started into a southern nineteen Oh my god, like
Speaker 12: that's so fatally, I don't intrigue, never miss an episode
Speaker 12: and a repeat like I listened again again. This is
Speaker 12: the best.
Speaker 8: I really do love it.
Speaker 12: I listened so much, but this.
Speaker 8: One, Yes, thank you, that's very sweet. And then it's
Speaker 8: such a unique case. So and I've been journ this
Speaker 8: for thirty years. I've never investigated a case like this,
Speaker 8: so I don't think I can't think of one like it.
Speaker 1: Sally and Chris finally emerge from the corner's court, and
Speaker 1: television news cameras follow them. We catch up with them
Speaker 1: and about forty supporters at a nearby park, where Sally
Speaker 1: is interviewed for seven years.
Speaker 13: First of all, tell us about who you've brought along
Speaker 13: with you today as a huge contingent of people.
Speaker 5: Well, I didn't bring them. They came.
Speaker 7: They came, and I put out the call and said
Speaker 7: would you come and wear some green as some support
Speaker 7: for my mum, and it's been amazing. These humans and
Speaker 7: the many more millions that are following who can't be
Speaker 7: here today, are really passionate about me finding out what's
Speaker 7: happened to Mom.
Speaker 5: And I'm really.
Speaker 7: Grateful for that because without their support, I don't think
Speaker 7: I'd be able to do what we've achieved and where
Speaker 7: we're at today.
Speaker 5: So I'm really grateful and thank you.
Speaker 13: Today is the combination of a really long battle for
Speaker 13: you to find out exactly what happened to your mum.
Speaker 13: How do you feel today?
Speaker 7: How do I feel? I don't actually know. I've got
Speaker 7: an adrenaline going still. Coron has just told me officially
Speaker 7: my Mum's deceased. So that's the first time I've heard
Speaker 7: that in twenty seven years, which is a long time.
Speaker 7: As you can appreciate, it's hard enough when someone does die,
Speaker 7: but to not have them in your world for such
Speaker 7: a long time and not know and then get to
Speaker 7: the point where you find out that they have died
Speaker 7: and we now need to move to the next stage
Speaker 7: of what that involves for me.
Speaker 6: So is there any.
Speaker 13: Sense and I guess plasure is a terrible word, but
Speaker 13: is there any sense of closure in hearing that the
Speaker 13: coroner has has said today what you might have known said.
Speaker 7: Yeah, we don't use the word closure at all in
Speaker 7: the world of the missing anymore. We refer to it
Speaker 7: as ambiguous loss because we know that something has happened,
Speaker 7: but we don't know how, the where, the the why,
Speaker 7: So we like to refer it to it as ambiguity.
Speaker 7: And that's actually a huge trauma to actually people to
Speaker 7: deal with who live with that. And I think that
Speaker 7: there's a point of resolution today with the coroner telling me,
Speaker 7: And you know, I appreciated that she looked me in
Speaker 7: the eye as she was giving a lot of her
Speaker 7: handing downs, and I know that, you know, she cares
Speaker 7: about my mum and that she wanted to do her best.
Speaker 7: And I'm really grateful for the efforts. It's been nearly
Speaker 7: three years of inquest, so it's been mammoth and it's
Speaker 7: been a huge task to undertake for myself personally and
Speaker 7: my family as well.
Speaker 13: She made some pretty escaping findings about mister Bloom or
Speaker 13: mister Blum. What did you make of those.
Speaker 7: Upon hearing them? Well, I was glad to hear it
Speaker 7: come from her. You know, we've been waiting for a
Speaker 7: long time to hear what her opinion was on the situation,
Speaker 7: and I think we've all got our own opinions on
Speaker 7: the situation, and it was just nice to hear it
Speaker 7: from her in her role as the new Southwestate coroner.
Speaker 13: She stopped short of recommending that police lay charges against
Speaker 13: him over your mum's death. How did that feel?
Speaker 5: Look, who is kind of expected from my point of view?
Speaker 7: You know, I know I knew in my heart that
Speaker 7: I would have to fight harder and longer to get
Speaker 7: the ancests to what's actually happened.
Speaker 5: So I'm prepared for the fight.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 5: I haven't given up yet.
Speaker 7: I don't know what keeps me going, but you know,
Speaker 7: I probably need a breather from this, and then we
Speaker 7: have some pretty big plans to keep on keeping on
Speaker 7: because we know the answers are out there and I'm
Speaker 7: just certainly not one person to give up.
Speaker 5: I should clarify that I probably don't have a break.
Speaker 7: I'm doing four live shows with Alison and Brian Seymour
Speaker 7: and from Channel seven, and we're doing those. They start
Speaker 7: in on the Gold Coast where Mum actually went missing
Speaker 7: on the tenth of March, and then We've got two
Speaker 7: shows in Brisbane consecutive days and then one down here
Speaker 7: in Sydney at Randwick and they're a fundraiser that we've
Speaker 7: put together with the funds helping Joony Condos, who's been
Speaker 7: an instrumental person in helping me gather information on my
Speaker 7: mum's case. We're heading overseas together ourselves later in the year.
Speaker 7: I obviously needed a death certificate to be able to
Speaker 7: access information about my mum because privacy has been one
Speaker 7: of the massive hurdles I've had to deal with over
Speaker 7: the years where I can't garner any information without that.
Speaker 7: So as sad as it is a bittersweet as it
Speaker 7: is to have the desertificity is really a big part
Speaker 7: of the story.
Speaker 13: When does it stop? Is that when you see charges
Speaker 13: laid or is that when you have a more detailed
Speaker 13: understanding of what happened to your mum.
Speaker 7: I would like to see justice served, and there's certain
Speaker 7: elements of that that need to be need to be
Speaker 7: looked into. There's certain people that I've contacted recently, like
Speaker 7: the AFP Peter Dutton's office, where things like the citizenship
Speaker 7: application that Rick Blum applied for that needs investigation from
Speaker 7: a higher person than myself. And I've been told by
Speaker 7: all of those people, and I'm not just singling out
Speaker 7: those two, but they've all said to me, Oh, we
Speaker 7: need to wait for the inquest to finish. So the
Speaker 7: inquest is finished, so let's go. Let's start action on
Speaker 7: those sorts of things that we know for fact and
Speaker 7: are in the brief of evidence and publicly available documents
Speaker 7: for anybody to see.
Speaker 5: So I really would encourage that to happen.
Speaker 7: And I'd also like to do a call out if
Speaker 7: I can, to the new South Wales Police Commissioner Karen Webb.
Speaker 7: I'd really like to see my mum's case garner a
Speaker 7: million dollars in a reward for any information about her
Speaker 7: disappearance and her death. So I really I think everyone
Speaker 7: would agree with me that that's deserving. She's been missing
Speaker 7: for twenty seven years and someone knows something, so we
Speaker 7: need to put it out there for them to come forward.
Speaker 8: The reporter asks Sally about me and Allison, as we're
Speaker 8: both standing right there.
Speaker 5: We've worked together for five years now. You know.
Speaker 7: I was only saying to Chris last night sitting at
Speaker 7: the hotel, and I said, I asked you five years
Speaker 7: ago if you could give me six months to do.
Speaker 7: After I'd met Allison, I said, can I have six
Speaker 7: months to try? And mum and he goes and it
Speaker 7: was at the table with all the kids as well,
Speaker 7: and they all said yes, that's fine. Five years later,
Speaker 7: we're here. So it's for anybody who's questioning it. It's
Speaker 7: very long, arduous journey. It's not easy. It's very stressful,
Speaker 7: and as I've said, you know, without people and humans
Speaker 7: in your circle, it's very hard to manage.
Speaker 5: So I'm really grateful for that.
Speaker 7: If someone is missing, particularly a woman, and that woman
Speaker 7: has children and a family, please do not say it's
Speaker 7: not suspicious. You should start it suspicious and work your
Speaker 7: way back. If you find them in twenty four hours,
Speaker 7: we'll pat on the back. That's great, But don't come
Speaker 7: in ten days later and go, oh, it's suspicious now,
Speaker 7: because it was suspicious to begin with. And we actually
Speaker 7: need more action taken at those high level entry levels
Speaker 7: when someone goes missing, and particularly if a family members
Speaker 7: saying something's wrong, like I did. You know that's where
Speaker 7: I'm at right now because they didn't take me seriously
Speaker 7: back then, and you know, I think the coroner gave
Speaker 7: some pretty scathing replies to the New South Wales Police
Speaker 7: how they handled the case.
Speaker 5: They didn't follow procedure.
Speaker 7: They did things like marked my mum as located when
Speaker 7: she had not been and that's something that has been
Speaker 7: very upsetting for me, and it runs through your blood.
Speaker 7: It's very very hard to swallow. And I haven't even
Speaker 7: had an apology. If I can put it, put it
Speaker 7: out there. You know, I still haven't from the police
Speaker 7: had any apology for how I've been treated.
Speaker 5: You probably will. Five all watched the inquest.
Speaker 7: I was I was treated pretty harshly as well, so
Speaker 7: and the coroner recognized that as well in her findings today.
Speaker 7: So it has been a hard journey and I'm happy
Speaker 7: to be here and I'm happy to have so many
Speaker 7: people wearing green for my mum today.
Speaker 5: So yeah, it's a bittersweet day.
Speaker 13: Can you tell us about your mum?
Speaker 7: Oh my mum, M Well, my mum was. We're very
Speaker 7: different humans. I always used to joke and say I
Speaker 7: like top forty and she likes bark. But we got
Speaker 7: on quite well as a mother daughter. She was a
Speaker 7: busy mum. She was a single mum for most of
Speaker 7: our life. And obviously I'd like to mention my brother too.
Speaker 7: He's not here today, and you know, he he took
Speaker 7: his own life because the police told us that my
Speaker 7: mum didn't want us in her world anymore. And uh,
Speaker 7: that's had huge ramifications for me and my dad and
Speaker 7: my family. But I speak for him today as well.
Speaker 7: But my mom loved us both. She treated us well,
Speaker 7: she fed us well, we always dressed beautifully as kids.
Speaker 7: And she was an intelligent, award winning school teacher. She
Speaker 7: had just won the Best Teacher in Queensland and was
Speaker 7: awarded that in November of ninety six by Ida. Buttro's
Speaker 7: who she adored, and that if you put the timeline
Speaker 7: into that, she she was gone and done out of
Speaker 7: this prefer all in in June the following year. So
Speaker 7: there's some thing's gone on there and the timeline is
Speaker 7: really important to getting the answers.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I miss my mum. It's hard not having
Speaker 5: a mum to talk to you.
Speaker 7: It's hard not having her as a friend, especially when
Speaker 7: you're having babies and things like that as well.
Speaker 5: And yeah, I miss her. I miss her.
Speaker 1: I'd be really proud of you.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I hope. So I hope.
Speaker 7: I hope she'd I think she'd be going good on
Speaker 7: yourself like she'd she would always sort of just give
Speaker 7: me a pat on the back because I'm a bit
Speaker 7: of a go getter and I do I do things
Speaker 7: not by halves, and she's known that about me, and
Speaker 7: I think she'd be proud of the fact that I'm
Speaker 7: fighting for her and I'm giving her a voice because unfortunately,
Speaker 7: when someone does go missing, it's falls back to those
Speaker 7: people in her family or when you're at their family,
Speaker 7: to be the voice, and that's hard.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I just miss her now.
Speaker 8: Allison asks Sally a few more questions.
Speaker 1: Five years ago, you didn't know what had happened to
Speaker 1: your mom. Do you feel like you know now?
Speaker 7: I'm definitely have a better understanding. I mean, obviously, you know,
Speaker 7: even the coroner can't tell us where, when, how, why,
Speaker 7: But I know she's deceased, and you know, the coroner
Speaker 7: has firmly suggested that mister Blum was with my mum
Speaker 7: when she came back to Australia, and I think that
Speaker 7: was a pretty big call from her and one that's
Speaker 7: important in the case. So I hope, yeah, I hope
Speaker 7: the police want to look into that a little bit further.
Speaker 1: Now, you don't know the manner of the death. I
Speaker 1: think you know, I know you've said before you have
Speaker 1: a much better understand Do you feel as though justice
Speaker 1: can be served in these circumstances.
Speaker 5: Well, I certainly hope.
Speaker 7: So, you know, I can't answer that because I'm always
Speaker 7: gagged by other people and what they say and what
Speaker 7: they want to do.
Speaker 5: So if people want to take.
Speaker 7: It on board and actually work on it and do something,
Speaker 7: who can That would be amazing. And you know there's
Speaker 7: always a possibility that we can find the truth. Yes,
Speaker 7: and look the detectives on the case of recent times,
Speaker 7: you know, there's supportive, They're caring. They've told me that,
Speaker 7: you know, they're here for me if I need anything.
Speaker 7: But it is hard as a daughter to take it
Speaker 7: all on and have to do a lot of it,
Speaker 7: you know, yourself, because they're busy doing other things. So
Speaker 7: it does does make it extremely exhausting. But you know,
Speaker 7: I'm happy to be able to do it and happy
Speaker 7: to help. I've always given everybody everything because I just
Speaker 7: want the answers. So I'll just have to continue down
Speaker 7: that route.
Speaker 1: Sally and her support has gather for a group photo.
Speaker 1: Then Brian and Sally talk about some of the specific findings.
Speaker 8: I was watching you when the coroner was giving your finding,
Speaker 8: so you're pretty stoic. You didn't share much emotion, but
Speaker 8: I'm guessing it was boiling away inside.
Speaker 5: It was boiling.
Speaker 7: There was a few tears, like just weelling, but I
Speaker 7: just wanted to try and keep.
Speaker 5: Keep it together. It's important that you do that, so
Speaker 5: I cried, Yeah, I did. I looked at you.
Speaker 7: Once and then I got distracted. I was like, I
Speaker 7: need to look back at the car, and I dismissed
Speaker 7: what she said.
Speaker 8: And she looked at you. She made teaching, she did often.
Speaker 5: Yeah, she looked at me at a lot of points.
Speaker 5: And I have a lot of time for her.
Speaker 7: She's obviously thought long and hard about the decisions and
Speaker 7: what the invidence is that's before her, and I'm really
Speaker 7: grateful for the opportunity because obviously I was even fighting.
Speaker 7: If you think back to when we first started. When
Speaker 7: I wrote to the coroner, I had Gary she in
Speaker 7: telling me that it's not a New South Walest case,
Speaker 7: it's a Queensland case and it should be referred to Queensland.
Speaker 5: And he just didn't want a bar of it.
Speaker 7: So that was quite momentous to get to that point
Speaker 7: even of just having an inquest and then who would
Speaker 7: have thought it would take three years to get here,
Speaker 7: so exhausting long, But you know, it's good to have
Speaker 7: her verbalize it to me and I can sit there
Speaker 7: and process at now and work at what the next
Speaker 7: step is.
Speaker 8: In particular, just a couple of the key findings. Obviously,
Speaker 8: she found that your mum has passed away, but she
Speaker 8: also found that Rick Bloom had a relationship with your
Speaker 8: mum and lured her with the promise of a new
Speaker 8: life overseas. That's an official finding. That's a huge vindication.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well we knew that, right, we put it all together.
Speaker 7: You and I got on a plane and went to
Speaker 7: Luxembourg together to go and saw the answers before any
Speaker 7: of that even happened. So, you know, I think just
Speaker 7: hearing it from someone of official, you know, an official level, is.
Speaker 8: Important, and that the police didn't do their job at
Speaker 8: the start, and that this your mum could have been
Speaker 8: found if they'd done their job properly. I mean, there's
Speaker 8: a chance she could have been found.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Well, I'm still stuck on a bit of the whole
Speaker 7: situation with his citizenship application, you know, because that reality
Speaker 7: is if the police and immigration had actually done their
Speaker 7: job back in six year, you know, he might not
Speaker 7: have actually been allowed to enter into Australia. And then
Speaker 7: that that's a whole nother ballgame, whole nother story really.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and just the finding that Gary Sheen, you know,
Speaker 8: obviously announced your mum had been located, took her off
Speaker 8: the missing persons register.
Speaker 7: It's just an.
Speaker 8: Arbitrary, totally unwarranted act. I mean, it just makes me
Speaker 8: insane with rage to think that that could have happened.
Speaker 8: Good to hear the Comdent today confirmed that was his
Speaker 8: flat out wrong.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 5: And I've always been you've seen me with him.
Speaker 7: I always tried to be so nice and kind and
Speaker 7: giving of information.
Speaker 8: And he's a nice guy.
Speaker 5: He's a nice guy. But he made an error like
Speaker 5: that was an error.
Speaker 7: You don't list someone as located when you have never
Speaker 7: cited them or seen them. And you know, and the
Speaker 7: fact is there's another element of that where they didn't
Speaker 7: follow protocol. So the Missing Person's Unit are not authorized
Speaker 7: to be able to.
Speaker 5: Mark someone as located.
Speaker 7: It has to come from the local police, which is
Speaker 7: Gary Shan, but he sort of pushed it onto them.
Speaker 7: They made the call, so even that in itself is
Speaker 7: not by the book. And that's that was really hard
Speaker 7: for me. I remember that that phone call so well,
Speaker 7: and I could not fathom that they would sit there
Speaker 7: and mark her located. And you know, we spoke about
Speaker 7: it on the podcast where he said to me, you know, oh,
Speaker 7: well there's a box for missing, and there's a box
Speaker 7: for located. There's nothing in the middle, so we have
Speaker 7: to mark her as located because we believe that's that
Speaker 7: she's gone missing on her own account. And I'm like,
Speaker 7: no one's really looking deep into that, like they're just
Speaker 7: it's just the police just say it and then I'm
Speaker 7: expected as a family member to just accept it.
Speaker 8: And well Gary also said he checked told me when
Speaker 8: I interviewed, and that he checked the Queensland Department of
Speaker 8: Transport and that license was sitting there since nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 8: correct in that name, he could have located Rick Bloomber.
Speaker 7: Frustrating, you know, all the fact that they were looking
Speaker 7: for a doctor in Raften and not an optometrist, like
Speaker 7: if they had actually found that information when it was
Speaker 7: noted there's a very good chance the records would have
Speaker 7: still been held, and we had Dean Evans, who was
Speaker 7: the optometrist, on the stand at the inquest, and he
Speaker 7: said that she would have filled out a new patient
Speaker 7: card and that would have had an address on it,
Speaker 7: maybe a phone number, and that would have been a
Speaker 7: massive find and that was lost because they were looking
Speaker 7: for a doctor.
Speaker 8: The coronor also found that Rick Bloom lud your mum
Speaker 8: away with the promise of a new life, that he
Speaker 8: did convince her to withdraw money. She couldn't say that
Speaker 8: he received the money, and that he knew more than
Speaker 8: he was telling that he was evidence. She dismissed his
Speaker 8: claims outright as a liar and that he knows more
Speaker 8: than he is told, and she encouraged the New South
Speaker 8: Wales Police, the homicide team to continue investigating this case.
Speaker 8: That possibly was a little stronger than I thought she
Speaker 8: might go having sat in many coronial inquist findings. What
Speaker 8: was your reaction to hearing that.
Speaker 7: Well, she pretty much just said what I was thinking.
Speaker 7: So I think anybody who sat through his evidence would
Speaker 7: know that there's a lot that's been said. But yeah,
Speaker 7: I don't know if I believe him much of what
Speaker 7: comes out of his mouth, So I would like the
Speaker 7: police to keep looking. You know, Laura Richards has always
Speaker 7: said to me, you know, age should not be a
Speaker 7: reason as to why you don't sort of keep asking questions.
Speaker 7: So yeah, I'm just I'm in that holding pattern right
Speaker 7: now where I can't really can't really comment on what
Speaker 7: other people think or say, but I know what I
Speaker 7: feel in my heart, so that's just going to keep
Speaker 7: me going. I just would have liked her to refer
Speaker 7: it to the DPP for further investigation. So I think
Speaker 7: there's more to see, you know, more to find, more
Speaker 7: to look at, more to investigate, more than anything.
Speaker 8: So and she said it's the homicide squad, then the
Speaker 8: Southwest Police to do exactly that. Do you have faith
Speaker 8: that they will be able to complete an investigation and
Speaker 8: maybe lay charges against someone?
Speaker 5: I don't know. I don't know. We'll have to see.
Speaker 7: I just got told that they're very busy, so we'll
Speaker 7: see how that pans out. But I would hope, so,
Speaker 7: I hope so they will gave me a nice hug
Speaker 7: and you know, wish me well. So I'm hoping that
Speaker 7: I'm hoping that they will yeah help bring justice for
Speaker 7: my mum.
Speaker 8: Just on a personal note, it's been just a pleasure
Speaker 8: to meet you. I can remember vividly the first time
Speaker 8: I went to your house in Risbon, did that interview
Speaker 8: in November twenty eighteen, and just how unbelievable even then
Speaker 8: when we knew so little your mum's story was. I
Speaker 8: couldn't imagine where it had gone. But you're an absolute hero,
Speaker 8: not just of all the followers around the world, but
Speaker 8: to me as well and everyone involved in the case.
Speaker 8: Good on you for hanging in there. Thank you and
Speaker 8: congratulations on getting this far. It's a huge milestone.
Speaker 13: Hope.
Speaker 8: You know just how important it is to get to
Speaker 8: this stage now do your whole approach and your perseverance
Speaker 8: has been Yeah.
Speaker 7: I'm very grateful for the I'm grateful for it, the
Speaker 7: opportunity to be able to get to a coigner's in
Speaker 7: quest and you know I send you that to you guys.
Speaker 7: At best, I would like just a proper investigation done,
Speaker 7: because I just really felt for so long it wasn't
Speaker 7: being done properly, and I feel like I've got to
Speaker 7: that point. I don't know if where at the end
Speaker 7: we need to keep moving.
Speaker 5: I would have liked to be at the end so
Speaker 5: I can just rest.
Speaker 7: But yeah, Joanie and I have got a few more
Speaker 7: things that we have to do, and we'll share with
Speaker 7: you what we find and what we what we do
Speaker 7: moving forward.
Speaker 8: Well, I'll be listening in with everyone else for the best.
Speaker 1: Thanks as soon as the findings were published each DAP
Speaker 1: to our criminal behavioral analyst Laura Richards, formerly of New
Speaker 1: Scotland Yard, Well, I mean.
Speaker 14: I think firstly, the coroner was very respectful in tone
Speaker 14: to Sally and pay tribute to her.
Speaker 6: So I think that the tone felt very respectful.
Speaker 14: Her, paying tribute to Sally's non stop questioning and also
Speaker 14: humanizing Marian. I thought that was a very important part
Speaker 14: of the proceedings. I wish other people would do that
Speaker 14: when talking about cases we loved ones. I think that
Speaker 14: there was a lot of information to process, and I
Speaker 14: was furiously writing down everything she said, and it's one
Speaker 14: hundred and sixty eight pages of her ruling, so I
Speaker 14: tried to as she said, the headlines the pertinent points
Speaker 14: for her, and I've tried to summarize them to make
Speaker 14: sense of myself.
Speaker 6: But I think the significant.
Speaker 14: Things were that she acknowledged that Rick Blum was in a.
Speaker 6: Relationship with Marion, and that.
Speaker 14: Relationship because Rick Blum was saying, well, it was just sex.
Speaker 14: I think it was an important acknowledgment in her findings,
Speaker 14: and that the notepaper that was used that Marian used
Speaker 14: to write to Sally the Hotel Nico in the Rita
Speaker 14: Japan notepaper that was used, she acknowledged that in her
Speaker 14: findings that she believed that Rick Blum gave that.
Speaker 6: To Marion, so that's important. And the third part of
Speaker 6: that was that they were in England together, and she
Speaker 6: tended to go for the broad brush.
Speaker 14: Pertinent findings like traveling to England together, but not being
Speaker 14: specific about.
Speaker 6: Everywhere they traveled. II.
Speaker 14: She said that she can't say whether they're in Tunbridge
Speaker 14: well and whether they traveled on to Brighton and Rye
Speaker 14: and so forth together. But she also talked about the money,
Speaker 14: which I thought was significant, the money that Rickdam encouraged
Speaker 14: her to transfer that money. So again traveling to England
Speaker 14: and traveling back back to Australia then being together that significant,
Speaker 14: but also encouraging Rick Blum encouraging Marion to transfer the money,
Speaker 14: and she didn't go further than that, and I thought
Speaker 14: that that was interesting because there's no currently, there's no
Speaker 14: money trail to say that it.
Speaker 6: Left Marion's account and it went.
Speaker 14: To the physical safety envelope account of Rick Blum. But
Speaker 14: she did pass comment on the timings of that money
Speaker 14: transfer and him opening that the safety envelope. She acknowledged
Speaker 14: the other women and that was a very important finding
Speaker 14: that she found them credible.
Speaker 6: Jeanette Glaine and the women.
Speaker 14: That you found through the Lady vanishes that Rick Blum
Speaker 14: exploited them and that they were credible, and I think
Speaker 14: that's very important for them to hear, and that he
Speaker 14: also exploited Marian and she believed that that's what happened.
Speaker 14: So she said that she believed that he had no
Speaker 14: intention of a future with Marion because when they traveled
Speaker 14: back to Australia really married.
Speaker 6: And had children.
Speaker 14: But she didn't take it to the next stage, which
Speaker 14: I'll come back to. But she did acknowledge what Rick
Speaker 14: Blum said in that he was an important witness, but
Speaker 14: she could not find him credible and that the te
Speaker 14: chest explanation, for example, she believes at the te chess
Speaker 14: where Marion was asked to store things, and when he
Speaker 14: taught that chess being at his she believed that that
Speaker 14: did happen because of that happening in other cases with
Speaker 14: the te chess.
Speaker 6: So she clearly was.
Speaker 14: Drawing from the other women and mapping it across to
Speaker 14: Marian's case. But what she found implausible with was Rick
Speaker 14: Blum's explanation that she went with this mystery man with
Speaker 14: the tea chess somewhere, So she was dismissing him, putting
Speaker 14: other people into the timeline, and distancing himself. And I
Speaker 14: thought that that was interesting and significant.
Speaker 6: The last plart.
Speaker 14: Parts regarding Rick Blum, and there are other bits, but
Speaker 14: just from the top of my head from having processed
Speaker 14: it just an hour or so ago, she did say
Speaker 14: that she felt he knew more than what he's saying,
Speaker 14: and that he had knowledge of much more about the
Speaker 14: overseas trip. He had knowledge of Marian and events prior
Speaker 14: to her disappearing, that he had knowledge of Marian and
Speaker 14: her returning and what happened thereafter once they returned to Australia,
Speaker 14: and he knowledge about the money transfer, but that he
Speaker 14: refused to pass that information onto the court. And I
Speaker 14: think that that's significant that she's saying that he knows
Speaker 14: more and if he were completely innocent. What she's not
Speaker 14: saying in the subtext was if he were completely innocent,
Speaker 14: he would have no reason to hide this information from
Speaker 14: the court because it is a coroner's inquest and as
Speaker 14: she laid out, she cannot talk about criminal offenses, she
Speaker 14: cannot push for anything in terms of civil remedy. It
Speaker 14: is a fact finding inquest. So she found Rick Blum
Speaker 14: not credible and that ostensibly he knows more and he's
Speaker 14: lying through the omission of information. And I thought it
Speaker 14: was also interesting what she said about the police investigation
Speaker 14: by New South Wales Police, and it does interlink because
Speaker 14: what she said was that it wasn't adequate from the
Speaker 14: time that Marian was reported missing by Sally, and she
Speaker 14: went through each of the points of each officer really
Speaker 14: failing Sally and that they didn't investigate for ten years
Speaker 14: and because of that, there's a limited amount of information
Speaker 14: and evidence available. Because of that, that stimmied the investigation,
Speaker 14: which is why we are where we are, And she
Speaker 14: didn't mince her words about that, and I think that
Speaker 14: that's important. Had the lines of investigation and inquiry being followed,
Speaker 14: then we wouldn't have all these question marks, so there
Speaker 14: is an element of culpability there the New South Wales Police,
Speaker 14: and it impacted on the availability of evidence. She of
Speaker 14: course talked about her findings in that Marian was deceased,
Speaker 14: and I think we all knew that she.
Speaker 6: Would reach that conclusion.
Speaker 14: But she could not say the date of her dying,
Speaker 14: She could not say the place, She could not say
Speaker 14: the cause of death or the manner of death. But
Speaker 14: she found the circumstances troubling. That statement is important. She
Speaker 14: found it troubling, the circumstances, and that led her really
Speaker 14: into the next part, which was that she was referring
Speaker 14: it to New South Wales Police for investigation, review and monitoring.
Speaker 14: And she said very clearly the investigation was not over correct.
Speaker 6: Had not concluded.
Speaker 1: Yes, and I mean she certainly seems to have the
Speaker 1: measure of the man in Rick Blum, but is limited
Speaker 1: with how far or how how she can go in
Speaker 1: relation to his criminality.
Speaker 6: Yes, she has to follow the facts.
Speaker 14: And although she has opined and taken the next step
Speaker 14: with some points I with the tea chests and overlaying
Speaker 14: what the other women said in their experience of Rick Blum,
Speaker 14: but she can only take it so far, and I
Speaker 14: did wonder whether she might put it back in the
Speaker 14: court of either the DPP to make the decision or
Speaker 14: the police have to do further investigation and to say
Speaker 14: that the investigation.
Speaker 6: Has not concluded.
Speaker 14: I felt that that was a very you know, there
Speaker 14: was no real emphasis on it, But what she was
Speaker 14: really saying is it was never properly investigated and there
Speaker 14: are still things that need to be done. There are
Speaker 14: still stones that need to be unturned, like, for example.
Speaker 6: Did they get married in Japan?
Speaker 14: You know, yes, she says that ship and that Marian
Speaker 14: believed that she was married, But if you follow that through,
Speaker 14: maybe there's further evidence, Maybe there are other witnesses, maybe
Speaker 14: there were things that were heard and.
Speaker 6: It jobs people's memories.
Speaker 14: If Sally and Joni are there asking questions. So she
Speaker 14: had to be circumspect in what she could say, and
Speaker 14: I believe she was very measured in that. And yes,
Speaker 14: it's disappointing not to hear a referral to the Director
Speaker 14: of Public Prosecutions, but I sense that she believes that
Speaker 14: there's still.
Speaker 6: Lines of inquiry to follow, and.
Speaker 14: There's still evidence to find, and that she doesn't want
Speaker 14: it just to come back with a straight there's insufficient
Speaker 14: evidence to charge.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, I think that's good in the sense that yes,
Speaker 1: she did do that. I guess the problem after speaking
Speaker 1: to Sally afterwards, is can we rely on South Wales Police,
Speaker 1: with all their multiple priorities, to still prioritize this and
Speaker 1: follow up any extra information.
Speaker 8: Yes.
Speaker 14: Look, New South Wales Police have been in the headlines
Speaker 14: again for not understanding high profile cases and saying things
Speaker 14: the chief, you know, the Commissioner herself saying crime of
Speaker 14: passion for suspected domestic commicides.
Speaker 6: So that doesn't really.
Speaker 14: Give much confidence, particularly given everything that's gone on with
Speaker 14: this case.
Speaker 6: So you know our New South Wales.
Speaker 14: Do we have confidence in them reigniting an investigation.
Speaker 6: No, And that's the problem.
Speaker 14: The problem is that they didn't look at it the
Speaker 14: first time, the second time, the third time, the fourth time.
Speaker 14: You have got a number of officers that do seem
Speaker 14: she commended a number of officers, but I still felt.
Speaker 6: The June twenty twenty one police.
Speaker 14: Interview was a real missed opportunity and that's when they
Speaker 14: could have put pressure on Rick Bloom and they didn't
Speaker 14: understand who he was then, so do they understand that
Speaker 14: now and are they going to put any added investigative
Speaker 14: resources into the case or are they just going to
Speaker 14: let it fit there in the unsolved homicide unit. But
Speaker 14: you'll remember with Lynett Dawson they didn't investigator either and
Speaker 14: it went to two coroners in quests and still there
Speaker 14: wasn't a proper investigation. Well, Headley Thomas did that investigation
Speaker 14: and it had to be a podcast similar to what
Speaker 14: you've done with The Lady Vanishes, And I just hope
Speaker 14: those other pieces of evidence can be uncovered.
Speaker 6: But I doubt Sally does have.
Speaker 14: Confidence because that's where it's been all this time, and
Speaker 14: still they haven't really done very much.
Speaker 1: At least we know about Rick Blum. We have to
Speaker 1: give them credit for that, but I mean, obviously it
Speaker 1: had to be instigated by the podcast and the inquest
Speaker 1: to get to that level. So so yes, it's great,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it needs to continue. We're hoping also, you
Speaker 1: know that by doing a book people who don't listen
Speaker 1: to podcasts, or maybe it's the older people because obviously
Speaker 1: in his world there'll be a lot of older people.
Speaker 1: Other victims potentially or even witnesses may come forward, so
Speaker 1: any sort of you know, expanding that network. But it
Speaker 1: still does feel yet that we need somebody to go
Speaker 1: that little bit further.
Speaker 6: Well let's hope.
Speaker 14: So, I mean, I still stand by the forty one
Speaker 14: points a circumstantial evidence, and I still feel that it's
Speaker 14: a very compelling case.
Speaker 1: Invest the resources, do the extra digging, and yeah, let's
Speaker 1: get this solved, because it can be. And when you
Speaker 1: look at I don't know, I mean, I know you
Speaker 1: looked at the Dawson case, and I won't go too
Speaker 1: much into it again because we did last time. But
Speaker 1: when you look at the evidence against Blam and the
Speaker 1: evidence against Dawson and.
Speaker 14: Forty one points, I found they were only the significant ones,
Speaker 14: like the coroner did when actually went the pertinent matters,
Speaker 14: as did I.
Speaker 6: And that's what I mean.
Speaker 14: Who is genuinely committed to finding answers here and the
Speaker 14: case built on circumstantial evidence.
Speaker 6: I mean.
Speaker 14: The other matter is that now there has been this finding,
Speaker 14: some mister Rick Bloom will probably be signing a big
Speaker 14: sigh of relief and feel that that's the end of
Speaker 14: the matter and it's been kicked into.
Speaker 6: The long grass.
Speaker 14: And I really hope that that is not the sense,
Speaker 14: I really do, because there is much more.
Speaker 6: That can be done with this case.
Speaker 14: Well, the coroner saying that Marion is deceased, that's another
Speaker 14: big point for Sally because now she can get the
Speaker 14: death certificate and then our certain information can be hopefully
Speaker 14: can she can find other pieces of information because she
Speaker 14: now can produce the death certificate.
Speaker 6: And I know there's a challenge around the name.
Speaker 14: And I noticed that the coroner kept referring to her
Speaker 14: with the name change, you know, and saying Florabella and
Speaker 14: Nalia Marion Remecau. Well, of course she lived her whole
Speaker 14: life still months before she left as maret. So I
Speaker 14: hope that more information can be retrieved by Sally, and
Speaker 14: that's an important part of this process.
Speaker 6: But it happened a long time ago.
Speaker 1: Well that's the thing, isn't That new evidence can also
Speaker 1: trigger other mechanisms in the justice system that can get
Speaker 1: them to revisit. And it's clear what has happened to
Speaker 1: marry In though so, and I think even to the
Speaker 1: coroner without saying as much, she does not feel like
Speaker 1: it's as much of a mystery any more.
Speaker 14: No, we're saying the circumstances are troubling and knowing that
Speaker 14: they are tied together. She doesn't believe what he has said,
Speaker 14: but it's what you can prove, and that's ostensibly what
Speaker 14: she was saying. It's what can be proven. If you've
Speaker 14: that that's the money from her account to his, then
Speaker 14: it's very clear evidence. But at times with cases you
Speaker 14: have to take that leap with all these points.
Speaker 6: Can you say that the.
Speaker 14: Money transferred if Marian was encouraged to give the money
Speaker 14: to Rick Bloom and that money transfers and then she disappears,
Speaker 14: who's got means motive and opportunity And often we don't
Speaker 14: have all the details with cases, so you know, but
Speaker 14: forty one points is not anything to.
Speaker 6: Feel is inconsequential.
Speaker 14: It's a huge amount of evidence that points in direction
Speaker 14: to Rick Blum, but I felt she was just hesitant
Speaker 14: to go to the next stage.
Speaker 6: If it were to go to trial. Like with KRITS.
Speaker 14: Dawson's case, a lot of fission and evidence was presented.
Speaker 6: The judge was very thorough in.
Speaker 14: His summing up of his decision, and it always comes
Speaker 14: back to that it's.
Speaker 6: The execution of it.
Speaker 14: If it was presented in the right way to a
Speaker 14: judge and jury, it can make the right decision of
Speaker 14: that next leap of who's on her timeline. They go
Speaker 14: to England, they returned to Australia. Is married, he has
Speaker 14: no so I told her I was married. That's when
Speaker 14: it ended. And I believe that that's and times you
Speaker 14: have to look at the probability of what's the chance
Speaker 14: of it being somebody else who disappears Marian or she
Speaker 14: disappeared herself versus he didn't get the outcome he wanted
Speaker 14: and she challenged him. That's much more lightly but that
Speaker 14: should be up to a court to decide.
Speaker 6: And maybe you know, in the best.
Speaker 14: Possible case, you've got new South Wales Police who are
Speaker 14: following lines of investigation.
Speaker 6: And that they've been doing that in the background. I
Speaker 6: can't talk to that.
Speaker 14: I would hope that they are doing that and that
Speaker 14: they certainly do as the coroner requested, which is it's
Speaker 14: a continuing it's an ongoing investigation.
Speaker 1: So to recap. The coroner found that while she cannot
Speaker 1: say how or where it happened, Marion is deceased. She
Speaker 1: found that Rick Blum was in a relationship with Marion,
Speaker 1: which is why she changed her name to Remicel, and
Speaker 1: that he persuaded her to sell her house and took
Speaker 1: possession of her belongings.
Speaker 8: That he lured her overseas with the promise of a
Speaker 8: new life, that he played some role in her life
Speaker 8: after she returned to Australia right before she vanished, and
Speaker 8: that his lies and deception convinced the coroner that mister
Speaker 8: Bloom does indeed no more than he is saying.
Speaker 1: She found it is up to police to decide whether
Speaker 1: to charge rit Blum with perjury and she has referred
Speaker 1: the case to the New South Wales Police Homicide Squad
Speaker 1: to investigate further and hopefully solve the likely murder of
Speaker 1: Marion Barter.
Speaker 8: We put some.
Speaker 1: Questions to New South Wales Police media asking whether they
Speaker 1: will charge rit Blum with anything. We also asked if
Speaker 1: Sally would get an apology. This was their response.
Speaker 9: The New South Wales Police Force will consider the coronial findings.
Speaker 9: The matter has been referred to the Homicide Squad Unsolved
Speaker 9: Homicide Team for ongoing monitoring and assessment. One thousand dollars
Speaker 9: reward remains on offer for information into the nineteen ninety
Speaker 9: seven suspicious disappearance of Marion Barter. Anyone who may have
Speaker 9: information that can assist strikeforced younger investigators is urged to
Speaker 9: contact police.
Speaker 1: Just a reminder, the crime Stoppers number is one eight hundred,
Speaker 1: triple three, triple zero.
Speaker 8: We have written an account of this podcast from its inception,
Speaker 8: tracing the remarkable twists and turns of a story you
Speaker 8: can only believe because it's true, one that has spanned
Speaker 8: eight decades and taken us across the world, discovering a
Speaker 8: story unique in true crime podcasting. Marian was not even
Speaker 8: listed as missing when we began. Publisher HarperCollins will launch
Speaker 8: The Lady Vanishers the book on May fifteenth. If you're
Speaker 8: after a copy of the first print or audiobook, it's
Speaker 8: available for porder right now, and you can help support
Speaker 8: Gulaine Dubois d'ar nois, the eighty nine year old who
Speaker 8: was duped of her life savings by purchasing the book
Speaker 8: from Schoolwork Supplies Educational resources and Books, who will donate
Speaker 8: ten percent of every purchase to Julane's go fund me account.
Speaker 8: We'll put a link on our Facebook page.
Speaker 1: This is the final episode of The Lady Vanishers.
Speaker 8: That said, we'll stay across any major developments and let
Speaker 8: you know about them.
Speaker 1: You can still send us tips and information if you
Speaker 1: know something. For all of us, it's been a labor
Speaker 1: of love, involving thousands of hours outside our paid jobs,
Speaker 1: pursuing a story that no one initially cared about, to
Speaker 1: help a daughter convince that something had happened to her mother.
Speaker 8: From the beginning, we hoped to trigger an inquest into
Speaker 8: Marian's disappearance, but first we had to convince the authorities
Speaker 8: that she was missing and coax the police into action,
Speaker 8: and find the clues that transformed this case from obscurity
Speaker 8: to public awareness worldwide.
Speaker 1: Thank you to the millions of people listening in Australia
Speaker 1: and around the world.
Speaker 8: Thank you to all those who reached out with information,
Speaker 8: tips and support.
Speaker 1: Thank you to the brave women who came forward to
Speaker 1: share their stories with us.
Speaker 8: Thank you Sally Laden.
Speaker 1: Now there is only one thing left to say. From
Speaker 1: me Alison Sandy.
Speaker 8: From me Brian seem.
Speaker 2: And from behind the scenes me Sally Eels.
Speaker 15: And from your audio guy Mark Wright, goodbye bye.
Speaker 1: If you knew Marion or have any information about her
Speaker 1: or her whereabouts, we'd love to hear from you.
Speaker 8: Our website is Sevennews dot com dot au slash news
Speaker 8: slash the Lady Vanishers and you can also message us here.
Speaker 8: You can also send us an anonymous tip at the
Speaker 8: Lady Vanishers dot org.
Speaker 1: If you like what you're hearing, don't forget to subscribe.
Speaker 1: Please rate and review our series. It helps you Listeners
Speaker 1: find us.
Speaker 8: Presenter and executive producer Alison Sandy.
Speaker 1: Investigative journalist Brian Seymour.
Speaker 8: Writer and producer Sally Yields.
Speaker 1: Sound design Mark.
Speaker 8: Wright, graphics Jason Blandford.
Speaker 1: Translation and transcripts are Stelle Sanchez.
Speaker 8: The theme and much of the music by Nicholas Gasparini
Speaker 8: at the Darkpiano dot com.
Speaker 1: Thanks again to Alliance Franseie.
Speaker 8: This is a seven News production.