WEBVTT - The Findings

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<v Speaker 1>This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother teacher

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<v Speaker 1>friend missing for twenty seven years.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, no sign that she was going to vanish,

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<v Speaker 2>that's for sure.

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<v Speaker 1>The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance, I'm not.

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<v Speaker 3>Sure if it was intentional.

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<v Speaker 4>There's something more foul afoot.

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<v Speaker 5>If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from the

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<v Speaker 5>little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was

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<v Speaker 5>Marian Barter.

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<v Speaker 6>What I see.

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<v Speaker 3>Whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive, I honestly

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<v Speaker 3>believe somebody has that key piece of information.

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<v Speaker 1>And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum.

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<v Speaker 7>Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave.

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<v Speaker 3>I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure

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<v Speaker 3>that somebody knows something.

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<v Speaker 1>The lady vanishes, Episode fifty seven, The Findings. I'm Alison Sandy.

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<v Speaker 8>And I'm Brian Seymour. And here we are New South

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<v Speaker 8>Wales Current's Court at Lidcombe Yep.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay.

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<v Speaker 8>I can see a bunch of people wearing green, a

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<v Speaker 8>couple more arriving here, a couple of high fives. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 8>there's going to be a good turnout today. What you'd

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<v Speaker 8>expect lots of people watching online.

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<v Speaker 9>Welcome.

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<v Speaker 8>Ah, it's going to be like thirty five degrees celsius today,

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<v Speaker 8>so maybe hotter out here. It's going to be a

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<v Speaker 8>very hot one. Otherwise, very clear, beautiful day. Yeah, car

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<v Speaker 8>park's about half full. It's still about just over half

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<v Speaker 8>an hour to the coroner gives her long awaited findings.

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<v Speaker 8>Oh yeah, yeah. The cafes crowded. There's a lot of

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<v Speaker 8>people here just waiting for the doors to open. Okay,

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<v Speaker 8>let's get in there.

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<v Speaker 1>In the lead up to today, I contacted the office

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<v Speaker 1>of the New South Wales Coroner requesting that we be

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<v Speaker 1>granted access to the brief of evidence compiled by police

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<v Speaker 1>and the video of the police interview with Rick Blum

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<v Speaker 1>from September twenty twenty one. Here's the response I received.

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<v Speaker 4>Her Honor declines the application as the suspected death of

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<v Speaker 4>Marion Barter is an ongoing investigation, even though the coronial

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<v Speaker 4>proceedings will conclude once findings are delivered on Thursday.

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<v Speaker 1>We're not sure what that means. Is the coroner foreshadowing

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<v Speaker 1>that she will be referring the matter to the DP

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<v Speaker 1>or is she just suggesting that the police investigation will

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<v Speaker 1>likely technically remain open even if she makes no particular

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<v Speaker 1>finding about what happened to Marian. Remember, the police told

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<v Speaker 1>us when we started five years ago that the case

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<v Speaker 1>was still ongoing despite having suspended their investigation in twenty eleven.

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<v Speaker 1>We're about to find out.

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<v Speaker 8>Sally and Chris traveled to Sydney yesterday. Allison was on

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<v Speaker 8>the same flight. We all meet outside the New South

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<v Speaker 8>Wales Coroner's Court on this sunny morning, where a crowd

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<v Speaker 8>of supporters, many wearing green memory of Marian is building

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<v Speaker 8>in anticipation of the court opening.

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<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I don't everything green in my cupboards? Are me?

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<v Speaker 5>I'm kind of lucky, is I have a lot of green,

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<v Speaker 5>so that was kind of a good thing for me.

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<v Speaker 5>It's not too bad. And then I have a really

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<v Speaker 5>nice green shop that I bought.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what we're missing today, that's why. And you followed

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<v Speaker 1>from the beginning.

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<v Speaker 6>Or from twenty maybe.

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<v Speaker 1>It came out a little bit late, but yeah.

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<v Speaker 5>Then a friend put me onto the.

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<v Speaker 1>Podcast and had just been so invested in it since then. Incredible, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>absolutely incredible.

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<v Speaker 10>Well, look I'm missing sale, I said, Look, I'm going

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<v Speaker 10>to come along. I might not get in the courtroom.

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<v Speaker 10>I don't know how many would turn up, and she said, no,

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<v Speaker 10>come definitely, come and come and sit with us. And

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<v Speaker 10>so I'm glad that. I'm glad she's got a good

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<v Speaker 10>turnout here.

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<v Speaker 6>It's wonderful.

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<v Speaker 10>She deserves She's done so well.

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<v Speaker 5>She's She's like a dog with a bone, isn't she.

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<v Speaker 1>Sally's Facebook site missing person marying Barter is flooded with

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<v Speaker 1>images of people in green sending their best wishes from

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<v Speaker 1>all around the world. Likewise, the lady vanishes social media online.

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<v Speaker 1>More than two thousand people are waiting for the live

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<v Speaker 1>stream to begin that will grow to more than fifteen

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<v Speaker 1>thousand by the end the proceedings. The doors open at

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<v Speaker 1>nine forty five.

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<v Speaker 8>Due to the large crowd waiting to get inside, Allison

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<v Speaker 8>stays in the media room while I take a seat

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<v Speaker 8>at the end of a row inside. The large hexagonal

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<v Speaker 8>courtroom quickly fills with supporters. The rest about thirty people

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<v Speaker 8>go to a separate viewing room in the front row.

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<v Speaker 8>Sally sits with Chris, her best friend Ray and Joni

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<v Speaker 8>Counsel assisting Adam Casseleden is at the legal bench along

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<v Speaker 8>with Sally's lawyer Brad Smith, and the legal representatives for

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<v Speaker 8>New South Wales Police. Rick Bloom's lawyer, mister White, is

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<v Speaker 8>appearing remotely, but the audio visual link meets with technical difficulties.

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<v Speaker 8>We can hear his dog barking and that elicits a

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<v Speaker 8>loud burst of laughter before mister White informs the court

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<v Speaker 8>he's not in a proper condition to appear on video.

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<v Speaker 8>There is no sign of Rick Bloom himself. Coroner Teresa

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<v Speaker 8>so Sullivan enters the court. Everyone stands and bows. The

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<v Speaker 8>lawyers announce themselves and the coroner begins.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd especially like to acknowledge Marion's daughter, Sally Laden, Marian's

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<v Speaker 2>son in law chris Leyden, and her grandchildren. My thoughts

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<v Speaker 2>are with you today.

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<v Speaker 8>Once again, we are using voice actors to represent the

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<v Speaker 8>court's proceedings. Legally, we are not allowed to publish recordings.

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<v Speaker 8>The coroner says her full findings are very long, so

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<v Speaker 8>she'll only read a shorter summary and the complete findings

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<v Speaker 8>will be available when she closes the inquest.

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<v Speaker 1>First, she revisits the facts. Marion Barter was last sighted

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<v Speaker 1>on June twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, by her friend

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<v Speaker 1>Leslie Loveday, who dropped her at a gold Coast Bus Depot.

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<v Speaker 1>Unbeknownst to her family, she had changed her name by

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<v Speaker 1>d poll to Flora Bella Natalia Marion Ramkeel, and a

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<v Speaker 1>passport was issued in that name on May twenty, nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>ninety seven. The passport was recorded as departing Brisbane Airport

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<v Speaker 1>on June twenty second and returning on August second, nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>ninety seven. Marion's last recorded contact was a phone called

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<v Speaker 1>A Sally on August the first, and she gave no

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<v Speaker 1>indication she intended to return to Australia the following day.

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<v Speaker 1>Sally made a missing person's report to Byron Bay Police

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<v Speaker 1>on October twenty second, nineteen ninety seven, after receiving information

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<v Speaker 1>that significant funds had been withdrawn from her mother's bank

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<v Speaker 1>account in the preceding two months. Coroner O'Sullivan then makes

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<v Speaker 1>clear the parameters in which she worked.

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<v Speaker 2>It's important to explain that an inquest is not a

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<v Speaker 2>criminal case. The witnesses and agencies involved in an inquest

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<v Speaker 2>are not on trial. It is not the role of

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<v Speaker 2>the coroner to attribute blame or to punish any one

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<v Speaker 2>for Marion's disappearance. Further, I am not to make findings

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<v Speaker 2>of civil liability and I have no power to award

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<v Speaker 2>compensation or damages.

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<v Speaker 1>Then the findings begin.

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<v Speaker 2>I find that Marian, under the name of Florabella Natalia

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<v Speaker 2>Marian Remichel, traveled overseas on the twenty second of June

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety seven. I find that, consistent with Sally's opinion,

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<v Speaker 2>the handwriting on the outgoing passenger card was Marian's, except

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<v Speaker 2>for the words Europe, Luxembourg and s Korea, which were

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<v Speaker 2>not written by Marian. I find that Marian deliberately traveled

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<v Speaker 2>overseas using her new name and took steps to ensure

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<v Speaker 2>that no family or close friend was aware of the

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<v Speaker 2>change of her identity. I find that Marian returned to

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<v Speaker 2>Australia under the name of Florabella Natalia Marian Remichel on

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<v Speaker 2>the second of August nineteen ninety seven, and took steps

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<v Speaker 2>to ensure that no one was aware of her return

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<v Speaker 2>to the country. That Marian did not leave Australia again

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<v Speaker 2>after the second of August nineteen ninety seven.

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<v Speaker 8>Council assisting had submitted that court should find Marian withdrew

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<v Speaker 8>a series of sums of five hundred dollars in August

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<v Speaker 8>nineteen ninety seven and attended the Byron Bay branch of

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<v Speaker 8>the Colonial State Bank and facilitated a transfer of eighty

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<v Speaker 8>thousand dollars on fifteen October nineteen ninety seven. This conflicts

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<v Speaker 8>with Sally's recollection from her conversation with a staff member

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<v Speaker 8>from the bank back in October nineteen ninety seven, the

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<v Speaker 8>daily withdrawals of five thousand dollars were being made. However,

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<v Speaker 8>it's understood the coroner made this finding based on the

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<v Speaker 8>memo to the Salvation Army made by Marion's father, John Wilson,

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<v Speaker 8>outlining a series of five hundred dollars withdrawals, as well

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<v Speaker 8>as evidence provided by bank staff that the ATM limit

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<v Speaker 8>was five hundred dollars. O'Sullivan finds that it was Marion

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<v Speaker 8>herself who were ten ended the bank, and that she

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<v Speaker 8>requested the transaction that day and told the bank teller

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<v Speaker 8>that she did not want her whereabouts revealed.

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<v Speaker 2>There is insufficient evidence, however, for me to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to make a finding about her intentions.

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<v Speaker 8>The Coroner makes a lot of findings in regards to Bloom,

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<v Speaker 8>but the ones she reveals in court adjust the pertinent ones.

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<v Speaker 2>I find that the primary motivation for mister Blum's name

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<v Speaker 2>changes was in order to dishonorably represent himself to others,

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<v Speaker 2>and that mister Blum's weak explanation and denials that this

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<v Speaker 2>regard should be wholly rejected. On the tenth of December

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety four, mister Blum placed a personal advertisement in

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<v Speaker 2>French in Licurier Australian under the name of M. F Remichel,

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<v Speaker 2>with an address of lenox Head and a telephone number.

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<v Speaker 2>I find that mister Blum could not satisfactorily explain why

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<v Speaker 2>he opened and used the post office box at lenox

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<v Speaker 2>Head when he had one in Battle, and that the

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<v Speaker 2>only reasonable explanation for the listing of the post office

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<v Speaker 2>box at lennox Head and the telephone number for Ballina

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<v Speaker 2>Cooyn investments in the advertisements was in order for mister

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<v Speaker 2>Blum to keep the advertisement and any response a secret

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<v Speaker 2>from his wife and family.

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<v Speaker 8>The coroner finds that Bloom's evidence in regards to how

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<v Speaker 8>he met up with Marion in nineteen ninety seven is

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<v Speaker 8>unsatisfactory and contradictory. Sally looks impassive and resolute as the

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<v Speaker 8>findings are delivered. Her husband Chris and I frequently lock

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<v Speaker 8>eyes smile and nod, as Sally is repeatedly vindicated by

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<v Speaker 8>the coroner on many fronts, bringing long overdue recognition and

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<v Speaker 8>praise for her perseverance. The findings about Rick Bloom come

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<v Speaker 8>thick and fast.

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<v Speaker 2>I find that there is a sufficient basis to find

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<v Speaker 2>that mister Blum met with Marion on at least three

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<v Speaker 2>occasions between February and May nineteen ninety seven, but mister

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<v Speaker 2>Blum's evidence is too unreliable for any further or more

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<v Speaker 2>particular findings with regard to the coincidence of Marion's change

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<v Speaker 2>of name to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel and mister Blum's

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<v Speaker 2>use of the name Fernand Knuchelus Remachel, I find that

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<v Speaker 2>Marian changed her name to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel because

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<v Speaker 2>she was in a relationship with mister Blum and sought

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<v Speaker 2>to share a name with him.

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<v Speaker 8>She also believes that Marion and Bloom traveled together in England.

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<v Speaker 2>I find that, based on the close proximity of the

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<v Speaker 2>dates of travel and mister Blum's admission he traveled to England,

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<v Speaker 2>and the tendency and coincidental evidence relating to a number

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<v Speaker 2>of other vulnerable women, that Marian and mister Blum traveled

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<v Speaker 2>together in England as a couple in a relationship for

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<v Speaker 2>at least some period of the time when Marion was

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<v Speaker 2>in England in nineteen ninety seven, although.

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<v Speaker 8>Where they traveled together, the Coroner could not definitively say.

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<v Speaker 2>There is insufficient evidence for me to find that mister

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<v Speaker 2>Blum actually traveled to Tunbridge Wells with Marion in June

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<v Speaker 2>or July nineteen ninety seven. Whilst I have found that

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<v Speaker 2>Marion and mister Blum traveled together in England for at

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<v Speaker 2>least some period, there is insufficient evidence for me to

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<v Speaker 2>find that mister Blum actually traveled to Rye Hastings and

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<v Speaker 2>Alfriston with Marion in June or July nineteen ninety seven.

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<v Speaker 8>The State Coroner also finds that the notepaper Marian used

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<v Speaker 8>to write a letter to Sally between the twenty second

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<v Speaker 8>and thirtieth of June nineteen ninety seven was taken by

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<v Speaker 8>mister Bloom from the Nico Narita hotel in Japan.

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<v Speaker 2>I find that mister Blum traveled to Japan at the

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<v Speaker 2>relevant time and stayed at the hotel, obtained the notepaper

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<v Speaker 2>and gave it to Marion in England and.

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<v Speaker 8>The reason Luxembourg was written on Marion's passenger card.

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<v Speaker 2>With regard to the coincidence of Marion's purported residence as

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<v Speaker 2>Luxembourg and mister Blom's close association with Luxembourg, I find

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<v Speaker 2>that mister Blum, representing himself Fernand Remichel, suggested to Marian

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<v Speaker 2>that they start a new life together in Luxembourg.

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<v Speaker 8>And as for any connection between Bloom and the large

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<v Speaker 8>withdrawals from Marion's bank account.

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<v Speaker 2>With regard to the coincidence of mister Blum's application for

0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 2>a safety deposit envelope in October nineteen ninety seven, a

0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.880
<v Speaker 2>day before Marion transferred eighty thousand dollars from her account,

0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.520
<v Speaker 2>I find that there is a sufficient factual basis to

0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:31.720
<v Speaker 2>make a finding that Marian withdrew the sums of money

0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:36.440
<v Speaker 2>from August nineteen ninety seven and transferred eighty thousand dollars

0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:41.120
<v Speaker 2>to an unknown account in October nineteen ninety seven on

0:14:41.280 --> 0:14:45.520
<v Speaker 2>the encouragement of mister Blum and in circumstances where Marion

0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:49.440
<v Speaker 2>believed she was in a relationship with him. However, there

0:14:49.520 --> 0:14:52.960
<v Speaker 2>is not enough evidence for finding to the requisite standard

0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:56.640
<v Speaker 2>as to whether and when mister Bloom actually received some

0:14:57.120 --> 0:15:00.760
<v Speaker 2>or all of Marion's money. With regard to the evidence

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:04.000
<v Speaker 2>of the use of Marion's money to start a school overseas,

0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:08.360
<v Speaker 2>while certainly conceivable, such a finding is not supported by

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 2>the evidence. With regard to the evidence of mister Blum's

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.800
<v Speaker 2>dishonest relationships with vulnerable women, I find that the evidence

0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 2>of Jeanette Gafney Bowen, Janet Oldenburg, Guilaine Dubois, Dan Lois,

0:15:22.440 --> 0:15:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Andrea Flumm and demonstrates a tendency on the part of

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:32.840
<v Speaker 2>mister Blum to misrepresent himself to single vulnerable women for

0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 2>financial gain. And Further, I find that mister Blum had

0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 2>a tendency to exploit vulnerable women. I also find that

0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:47.080
<v Speaker 2>mister Blum exploited Marion in nineteen ninety seven in the

0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.000
<v Speaker 2>manner in which he later exploited other women who gave

0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:54.520
<v Speaker 2>evidence in these proceedings. I make this finding despite mister

0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.840
<v Speaker 2>Blum's denials in this regard, and notwithstanding that the women

0:15:59.000 --> 0:16:03.800
<v Speaker 2>involved in his later relationships remained alive and well. I

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.320
<v Speaker 2>find that mister Bloom entered into a relationship with Marion

0:16:07.440 --> 0:16:11.760
<v Speaker 2>in nineteen ninety seven, and encouraged her to start a

0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:16.400
<v Speaker 2>new life with him. To this end, Marian changed her name,

0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:20.280
<v Speaker 2>spent some time with mister Blom in England, and on

0:16:20.360 --> 0:16:24.560
<v Speaker 2>return to Australia, represented herself as married to mister Bloom

0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.360
<v Speaker 2>and demonstrated an intention to start a new life in

0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:32.320
<v Speaker 2>Luxembourg with him. Mister Blom traveled to England to spend

0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.680
<v Speaker 2>time with Marion when he clearly did not intend to

0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.320
<v Speaker 2>pursue the relationship because he was married with children and

0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:41.880
<v Speaker 2>lived in Wollongbach in New South Wales.

0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.760
<v Speaker 8>Corone O'Sullivan notes that she's made written findings in regards

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:50.200
<v Speaker 8>to the evidence of Jeanette Gaffney Bowen, Janet Oldenburg, Gulaine

0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:54.120
<v Speaker 8>Duins de Lois, Andre Flammay, and the woman we've always

0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 8>referred to as Charlotte. She does not read those findings

0:16:57.480 --> 0:17:00.480
<v Speaker 8>out in court, but does say she accepts the evidence

0:17:00.520 --> 0:17:04.240
<v Speaker 8>of all four women, before then returning her attention back

0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:04.800
<v Speaker 8>to Bloom.

0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Mister Blum's evidence is of great importance in these proceedings.

0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:13.280
<v Speaker 2>It is necessary for the court to assess his credibility.

0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:18.560
<v Speaker 2>In short, I do not accept as accurate anything that

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:21.960
<v Speaker 2>mister Blum has said in evidence. In the absence of

0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:26.879
<v Speaker 2>independent corroborating evidence, I find that mister Blum, whilst in

0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:31.719
<v Speaker 2>an intimate relationship with Marion, persuaded or otherwise encouraged her

0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:35.720
<v Speaker 2>to sell her house in nineteen ninety seven. The evidence

0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.000
<v Speaker 2>is not sufficient to prove that mister Blum played any

0:17:39.119 --> 0:17:42.600
<v Speaker 2>causative role in Marian's decision to resign from her employment.

0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.000
<v Speaker 2>With regard to the role of mister Blum and the

0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.920
<v Speaker 2>storage of Marion's tea chests at his house, I find

0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:53.639
<v Speaker 2>that there is a sufficient factual basis for me to

0:17:53.760 --> 0:17:57.320
<v Speaker 2>make a finding that Marian agreed with a proposal by

0:17:57.359 --> 0:18:00.679
<v Speaker 2>mister Blum for him to take possession of some of

0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:04.399
<v Speaker 2>her belongings before she traveled to Europe. I make this

0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.919
<v Speaker 2>finding based on the stark similarities with the evidence of

0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.760
<v Speaker 2>Miss Dubois dan Lois that in two thousand and six

0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.359
<v Speaker 2>mister Blum suggested and facilitated the packing and purported shipping

0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:20.879
<v Speaker 2>of trunks of her possessions to Australia. However, I find

0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.680
<v Speaker 2>mister Blum's account of the storage of three or four

0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.720
<v Speaker 2>tea chests and the existence of an unknown man in

0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:30.840
<v Speaker 2>uniform who was planning to travel with Marion is implausible

0:18:31.400 --> 0:18:34.359
<v Speaker 2>with regard to whether mister Blum played any role in

0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:38.720
<v Speaker 2>Marion's life after she returned to Australia. There is a

0:18:38.760 --> 0:18:42.240
<v Speaker 2>sufficient basis for me to make a finding that mister

0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:47.040
<v Speaker 2>Blum was in communication with Marion and played some role

0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:51.120
<v Speaker 2>in her life following her return to Australia in August

0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.720
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety seven. Mister Blum's evidence in the final days

0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 2>of the inquest, when asked by counsel assisting, would you

0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:02.200
<v Speaker 2>like to say anything further in relation to the disappearance

0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.080
<v Speaker 2>of Marion Barter, was extraordinary.

0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:09.800
<v Speaker 1>You might recall, on the eve of the last day

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:14.359
<v Speaker 1>of giving evidence, mister Blum suddenly volunteered a conversation he

0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.200
<v Speaker 1>claims he had with Marion the last time he saw

0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 1>her before she traveled overseas. He said she told him

0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.760
<v Speaker 1>she no longer wanted anything to do with her family

0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:25.800
<v Speaker 1>and was cutting off all contact.

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:30.479
<v Speaker 8>It was the first time he had made that claim.

0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.679
<v Speaker 8>He never once told it to police, lawyers or the

0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:38.880
<v Speaker 8>coroner in the previous two years. It was a stunning

0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:42.359
<v Speaker 8>turn of events and one that clearly impacted heavily on

0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:43.959
<v Speaker 8>Coroner Teresa O'Sullivan.

0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.320
<v Speaker 2>This evidence, along with his lies and deception throughout the

0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.680
<v Speaker 2>inquest has convinced me that he does indeed no more

0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.560
<v Speaker 2>than he is saying. I make the following further findings

0:19:56.600 --> 0:20:01.160
<v Speaker 2>regarding mister Bloom. Firstly, that he has further knowledge about

0:20:01.160 --> 0:20:06.520
<v Speaker 2>the circumstances of Marian's travel overseas. Secondly, that he has

0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.600
<v Speaker 2>further knowledge of his relationship with her in the months

0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:14.280
<v Speaker 2>prior to her disappearance. Thirdly, he has further knowledge of

0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 2>her circumstances following her return from overseas. Fourthly, that he

0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.720
<v Speaker 2>has further knowledge of the withdrawals and transfer of her money.

0:20:24.560 --> 0:20:28.000
<v Speaker 2>And Finally, that there is a sufficient basis for a

0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:33.040
<v Speaker 2>finding that he was and is deliberately unwilling to divulge

0:20:33.080 --> 0:20:34.720
<v Speaker 2>this further knowledge to the court.

0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Teresa O'Sullivan then focuses on New South Wales Police.

0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:43.400
<v Speaker 2>Having considered all the evidence tended in the submissions made,

0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.520
<v Speaker 2>I find that the nature and adequacy of the police

0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:50.000
<v Speaker 2>investigation into the disappearance of Marian by New South Wales

0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Police between her disappearance in nineteen ninety seven up until

0:20:54.240 --> 0:20:58.639
<v Speaker 2>twenty nineteen was not adequate. It is clear from the

0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:01.679
<v Speaker 2>evidence that following the initial report made by Sally to

0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Byron Bay Police Station on the twenty second of October

0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:09.000
<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety seven, that very little was done to investigate

0:21:09.040 --> 0:21:13.639
<v Speaker 2>Marion's whereabouts until approximately ten years later in two thousand

0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:17.639
<v Speaker 2>and seven. I find that the police investigation into the

0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:21.080
<v Speaker 2>disappearance of Marian by New South Wales Police from the

0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.640
<v Speaker 2>report on the twenty second of October nineteen ninety seven

0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:28.399
<v Speaker 2>up until two thousand and seven was not conducted in

0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:32.159
<v Speaker 2>an appropriate and timely manner and not consistent with the

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.920
<v Speaker 2>relevant policy enforced within New South Wales Police at the time.

0:21:36.800 --> 0:21:40.560
<v Speaker 2>I find that Detective Senior Constable Schian should not have

0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:43.120
<v Speaker 2>reclassified Marian as located.

0:21:43.440 --> 0:21:51.200
<v Speaker 1>In twenty eleven, the coroner lists specific findings in regards

0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:55.399
<v Speaker 1>to the police investigation, including six of the eleven proposed

0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:59.919
<v Speaker 1>by Sally Leyden and her legal team. One that seeing it,

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.200
<v Speaker 1>Constable Graham Child's should not have classified Sally's report made

0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.280
<v Speaker 1>on the twenty second of October nineteen ninety seven of

0:22:07.320 --> 0:22:12.280
<v Speaker 1>her mother being missing as an occurrence only event. Two

0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.520
<v Speaker 1>that Graham Childs was unaware of the definition of a

0:22:15.560 --> 0:22:20.119
<v Speaker 1>missing person in Commissioner's instruction, and that he classified the

0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:24.080
<v Speaker 1>report as an occurrence only based on his own subjective

0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:29.280
<v Speaker 1>view of the sense of urgency. Three that it was

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:35.280
<v Speaker 1>unsatisfactory and inappropriate for Graham Child's not to have reclassified

0:22:35.280 --> 0:22:41.160
<v Speaker 1>the event from an occurrence only to an active investigation.

0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:44.160
<v Speaker 1>Four that as a result of failures at the first

0:22:44.200 --> 0:22:48.800
<v Speaker 1>reporting of Marion Barter's disappearance, her case was not investigated

0:22:48.960 --> 0:22:53.200
<v Speaker 1>for almost ten years until two thousand and seven, and

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:59.720
<v Speaker 1>that led to the unavailability of crucial evidence. Five That

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:02.960
<v Speaker 1>Maryon Barter was listed as a missing person for the

0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:06.600
<v Speaker 1>first time on the sixth of July two thousand seven

0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.000
<v Speaker 1>by Senior Constable joe Anne Williams as a result of

0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:14.600
<v Speaker 1>being contacted by Rebecca Cotts of the Australian Federal Police

0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Missing Persons Unit. Six That Detective Senior Constable Gary Shehan's

0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:24.960
<v Speaker 1>decision to recommend that Maryon Barter be removed from the

0:23:24.960 --> 0:23:28.600
<v Speaker 1>missing person's register on the twenty second of September two

0:23:28.680 --> 0:23:33.640
<v Speaker 1>thousand eleven was incorrect and Marion should not have been

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:37.000
<v Speaker 1>classified as located in two thousand and eleven.

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:44.120
<v Speaker 8>The coroner agrees that there should be no suggestion that

0:23:44.200 --> 0:23:48.160
<v Speaker 8>Sally in any way delayed the investigation by New South

0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:51.080
<v Speaker 8>Wales Police or behaved in a manner that can be

0:23:51.200 --> 0:23:55.760
<v Speaker 8>described as anything other than understandable and consistent with a

0:23:55.880 --> 0:24:00.160
<v Speaker 8>daughter very confused and anxious at finding out about out

0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:05.080
<v Speaker 8>her mother's circumstances. Teresa O'Sullivan also notes that the resistance

0:24:05.119 --> 0:24:08.800
<v Speaker 8>in this inquest by New South Wales Police to accept

0:24:08.880 --> 0:24:14.000
<v Speaker 8>the inadequacies of the initial police investigation is difficult to understand,

0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:18.720
<v Speaker 8>especially given the very clear evidence of Detective Chief Inspector

0:24:18.760 --> 0:24:24.960
<v Speaker 8>Brown about what should have happened in nineteen ninety seven. Finally,

0:24:25.359 --> 0:24:29.679
<v Speaker 8>the formal findings, what does the coroner believe happened to

0:24:29.800 --> 0:24:30.560
<v Speaker 8>Marian Barter?

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.600
<v Speaker 2>As a result of having considered all of the documentary evidence,

0:24:38.040 --> 0:24:42.439
<v Speaker 2>the oral evidence given at the inquest and submissions, I find,

0:24:42.520 --> 0:24:47.240
<v Speaker 2>on the balance of probabilities that Florabella Natalia Marian Remichel,

0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:52.960
<v Speaker 2>formerly known as Marion Barter, is deceased. While I am

0:24:53.040 --> 0:24:56.640
<v Speaker 2>unable to determine the exact date of death, I find

0:24:56.640 --> 0:24:58.960
<v Speaker 2>that Marian is likely to have died on a date

0:24:59.200 --> 0:25:04.360
<v Speaker 2>after the fifteenth of October nineteen ninety seven. I'm unable

0:25:04.400 --> 0:25:07.960
<v Speaker 2>to determine the place of Marian's death. I'm unable to

0:25:08.000 --> 0:25:12.320
<v Speaker 2>determine the cause of Marion's death. I'm unable to determine

0:25:12.480 --> 0:25:16.920
<v Speaker 2>the manner of Marian's death. Marian's remains have not been

0:25:16.960 --> 0:25:20.639
<v Speaker 2>found and the available evidence does not allow me to

0:25:20.680 --> 0:25:23.919
<v Speaker 2>make findings as to the possible cause and manner of

0:25:23.960 --> 0:25:32.360
<v Speaker 2>Marian's death. However, the circumstances surrounding Marian's disappearance are troubling. Accordingly,

0:25:32.840 --> 0:25:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I make the following recommendation to the new South Wales

0:25:36.400 --> 0:25:40.919
<v Speaker 2>Commissioner of Police. I recommend that the new South Wales

0:25:40.960 --> 0:25:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Commissioner of Police calls the investigation into the death of

0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:50.480
<v Speaker 2>missing person Floribella Natalia Marion Remicel, formerly known as Marion Barter,

0:25:51.080 --> 0:25:54.159
<v Speaker 2>to be referred or to remain within the State Crime

0:25:54.200 --> 0:26:01.159
<v Speaker 2>Command Unsolved Homicide Team for ongoing investigation, review and monitoring.

0:26:02.400 --> 0:26:05.480
<v Speaker 2>The family submitted that the court should formerly refer mister

0:26:05.520 --> 0:26:09.120
<v Speaker 2>Blum to the Director of Public Prosecutions or the Attorney

0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 2>General to consider charges of either perjury or making a

0:26:12.840 --> 0:26:16.720
<v Speaker 2>false statement. I am of the view that any referral

0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:19.840
<v Speaker 2>of mister Blum to the Director of Public Prosecutions or

0:26:19.880 --> 0:26:24.040
<v Speaker 2>the Attorney General to consider charges of perjury or false

0:26:24.040 --> 0:26:27.199
<v Speaker 2>statements on oath is a matter best left for the

0:26:27.240 --> 0:26:33.280
<v Speaker 2>police investigators, particularly considering the investigation has not concluded.

0:26:34.119 --> 0:26:37.960
<v Speaker 8>The coroner emphasizes that the five hundred thousand dollars reward

0:26:38.440 --> 0:26:41.160
<v Speaker 8>for information leading to the arrest and conviction of any

0:26:41.200 --> 0:26:45.760
<v Speaker 8>person or persons responsible for Marian's disappearance still stands.

0:26:46.400 --> 0:26:49.760
<v Speaker 2>I strongly encourage any member of the public who has

0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:54.240
<v Speaker 2>any information relating to the disappearance of Marion Barter or

0:26:54.320 --> 0:26:59.360
<v Speaker 2>information relating to Floribella Natalia Marion Remichel to come forward

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:02.800
<v Speaker 2>and to sh share that information with New South Wales Police.

0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:07.440
<v Speaker 1>She also confirms that a DNA profile from a sample

0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:11.000
<v Speaker 1>provided by Sally Laden has been uploaded to the New

0:27:11.040 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 1>South Wales and National DNA databases for continuous searching against

0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:22.320
<v Speaker 1>any unidentified human remains. In closing Corona, O'Sullivan commends the

0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:28.120
<v Speaker 1>legal representatives, especially the Council Assisting team Adam Castleden, Tracy

0:27:28.200 --> 0:27:33.320
<v Speaker 1>Stephens and Clara Patocki. She expresses gratitude to the work

0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:37.800
<v Speaker 1>carried out by New South Wales Police Detectives Inspector Nigel Warren,

0:27:38.160 --> 0:27:43.920
<v Speaker 1>Sergeant Sasha Panazza and Senior Constable Lisa Pisotto, and has

0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:46.200
<v Speaker 1>a special message for Sally Lyden.

0:27:47.880 --> 0:27:51.359
<v Speaker 2>I'd like to acknowledge and commend Sally on her unwavering

0:27:51.400 --> 0:27:55.440
<v Speaker 2>commitment and participation in the coronial investigation and in quest

0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:58.239
<v Speaker 2>to find out what happened to her mother. She has

0:27:58.280 --> 0:28:03.720
<v Speaker 2>shown fortitude, dignity, resilience and grace throughout these proceedings. I

0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:09.560
<v Speaker 2>express my sympathy and condolences to Sally, Chris Bronwin, Deirdre Lee,

0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:14.719
<v Speaker 2>Marian's grandchildren, Marian's family, friends and loved ones, and the

0:28:14.800 --> 0:28:18.320
<v Speaker 2>many people that Marian touched in her life. I would

0:28:18.359 --> 0:28:22.000
<v Speaker 2>like to again acknowledge that the experience of grief for

0:28:22.040 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 2>the family of a missing person is complex and difficult,

0:28:26.280 --> 0:28:31.359
<v Speaker 2>and there remain many unanswered questions. Finally, I'd like to

0:28:31.440 --> 0:28:36.399
<v Speaker 2>conclude by acknowledging and recognizing the person that Marian was

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:41.160
<v Speaker 2>to her family, friends and loved ones. Witnesses who provided

0:28:41.200 --> 0:28:44.840
<v Speaker 2>statements and evidence at the inquest described Marian as a

0:28:44.880 --> 0:28:48.640
<v Speaker 2>loving and caring person who had a fondness for antiques

0:28:48.720 --> 0:28:51.680
<v Speaker 2>and the arts, who could easily make friends, and was

0:28:51.760 --> 0:28:55.840
<v Speaker 2>also a gifted teacher. It is fitting to end with

0:28:55.920 --> 0:28:58.400
<v Speaker 2>the words shared by Sally to the court, reading from

0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:02.680
<v Speaker 2>the family's statement, in which she described Marion as a kind,

0:29:03.000 --> 0:29:07.239
<v Speaker 2>caring soul with a wicked laugh. She was intelligent, she

0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:10.600
<v Speaker 2>was cultured, and she had so many friends who loved

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 2>and miss her. Still. She would always bring you flowers

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:19.600
<v Speaker 2>a ra cake. She was a very generous human. I

0:29:19.720 --> 0:29:21.640
<v Speaker 2>close this inquest.

0:29:27.320 --> 0:29:31.480
<v Speaker 8>This is both wonderful and frustrating for the Lady Vanish's team.

0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:35.200
<v Speaker 8>On the one hand, the coroner has referred Marian's death

0:29:35.640 --> 0:29:38.719
<v Speaker 8>to the New South Wales Police to be investigated as

0:29:38.760 --> 0:29:43.400
<v Speaker 8>an unsolved homicide, but she stopped short of referring any

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:47.560
<v Speaker 8>person to the Director of Public Prosecutions the DPP to

0:29:47.680 --> 0:29:52.720
<v Speaker 8>consider laying criminal charges. There are, however, serious findings about

0:29:52.760 --> 0:29:56.120
<v Speaker 8>mister Rick Bloom. It's a lot to take in, and

0:29:56.160 --> 0:29:59.240
<v Speaker 8>Sally confers with the Channel seven lawyers who have been

0:29:59.280 --> 0:30:01.120
<v Speaker 8>with her throughout out the two and a half year

0:30:01.160 --> 0:30:06.000
<v Speaker 8>long in quest. Outside, her supporters are digesting what they've

0:30:06.040 --> 0:30:06.480
<v Speaker 8>just heard.

0:30:07.080 --> 0:30:10.480
<v Speaker 11>I'm glad with what we heard obviously today, but it

0:30:10.520 --> 0:30:12.680
<v Speaker 11>could have been a bit more for our best types.

0:30:12.720 --> 0:30:15.400
<v Speaker 11>But I think a lot Sally's really been vindicated with

0:30:15.440 --> 0:30:20.280
<v Speaker 11>what she's how she's handled herself through all these years,

0:30:20.680 --> 0:30:23.240
<v Speaker 11>and I just hope that the police pursue it to

0:30:23.680 --> 0:30:26.760
<v Speaker 11>their full, you know, full capabilities, and someone.

0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:28.160
<v Speaker 8>Gets charged with something important.

0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 5>My name is Terry from Sydney.

0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:33.560
<v Speaker 12>Who's here from Senior too?

0:30:33.840 --> 0:30:35.440
<v Speaker 8>And how did you hear about this case?

0:30:36.080 --> 0:30:36.280
<v Speaker 5>Oh?

0:30:36.440 --> 0:30:37.240
<v Speaker 8>I just have it.

0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:42.040
<v Speaker 12>I'm a podcast listener, like all kinds of podcast. When

0:30:42.080 --> 0:30:45.080
<v Speaker 12>I started into a southern nineteen Oh my god, like

0:30:45.200 --> 0:30:50.000
<v Speaker 12>that's so fatally, I don't intrigue, never miss an episode

0:30:50.560 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 12>and a repeat like I listened again again. This is

0:30:55.160 --> 0:30:55.600
<v Speaker 12>the best.

0:30:55.720 --> 0:30:56.920
<v Speaker 8>I really do love it.

0:30:57.520 --> 0:30:59.520
<v Speaker 12>I listened so much, but this.

0:30:59.600 --> 0:31:03.480
<v Speaker 8>One, Yes, thank you, that's very sweet. And then it's

0:31:03.520 --> 0:31:06.040
<v Speaker 8>such a unique case. So and I've been journ this

0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:08.920
<v Speaker 8>for thirty years. I've never investigated a case like this,

0:31:09.040 --> 0:31:11.040
<v Speaker 8>so I don't think I can't think of one like it.

0:31:12.560 --> 0:31:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Sally and Chris finally emerge from the corner's court, and

0:31:16.120 --> 0:31:19.240
<v Speaker 1>television news cameras follow them. We catch up with them

0:31:19.320 --> 0:31:22.600
<v Speaker 1>and about forty supporters at a nearby park, where Sally

0:31:22.880 --> 0:31:24.440
<v Speaker 1>is interviewed for seven years.

0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:26.360
<v Speaker 13>First of all, tell us about who you've brought along

0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:28.600
<v Speaker 13>with you today as a huge contingent of people.

0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:30.440
<v Speaker 5>Well, I didn't bring them. They came.

0:31:30.640 --> 0:31:32.640
<v Speaker 7>They came, and I put out the call and said

0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:35.800
<v Speaker 7>would you come and wear some green as some support

0:31:35.880 --> 0:31:40.360
<v Speaker 7>for my mum, and it's been amazing. These humans and

0:31:40.800 --> 0:31:43.320
<v Speaker 7>the many more millions that are following who can't be

0:31:43.400 --> 0:31:46.600
<v Speaker 7>here today, are really passionate about me finding out what's

0:31:46.640 --> 0:31:47.240
<v Speaker 7>happened to Mom.

0:31:47.280 --> 0:31:48.280
<v Speaker 5>And I'm really.

0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:50.600
<v Speaker 7>Grateful for that because without their support, I don't think

0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:53.400
<v Speaker 7>I'd be able to do what we've achieved and where

0:31:53.160 --> 0:31:54.160
<v Speaker 7>we're at today.

0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:55.880
<v Speaker 5>So I'm really grateful and thank you.

0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:58.120
<v Speaker 13>Today is the combination of a really long battle for

0:31:58.240 --> 0:32:00.520
<v Speaker 13>you to find out exactly what happened to your mum.

0:32:00.600 --> 0:32:02.040
<v Speaker 13>How do you feel today?

0:32:04.440 --> 0:32:06.760
<v Speaker 7>How do I feel? I don't actually know. I've got

0:32:06.760 --> 0:32:10.440
<v Speaker 7>an adrenaline going still. Coron has just told me officially

0:32:10.440 --> 0:32:13.240
<v Speaker 7>my Mum's deceased. So that's the first time I've heard

0:32:13.240 --> 0:32:15.240
<v Speaker 7>that in twenty seven years, which is a long time.

0:32:15.320 --> 0:32:17.840
<v Speaker 7>As you can appreciate, it's hard enough when someone does die,

0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:20.600
<v Speaker 7>but to not have them in your world for such

0:32:20.640 --> 0:32:22.840
<v Speaker 7>a long time and not know and then get to

0:32:22.880 --> 0:32:26.360
<v Speaker 7>the point where you find out that they have died

0:32:26.440 --> 0:32:29.200
<v Speaker 7>and we now need to move to the next stage

0:32:29.240 --> 0:32:31.120
<v Speaker 7>of what that involves for me.

0:32:31.520 --> 0:32:33.680
<v Speaker 6>So is there any.

0:32:33.440 --> 0:32:35.880
<v Speaker 13>Sense and I guess plasure is a terrible word, but

0:32:36.000 --> 0:32:38.200
<v Speaker 13>is there any sense of closure in hearing that the

0:32:38.280 --> 0:32:41.520
<v Speaker 13>coroner has has said today what you might have known said.

0:32:42.480 --> 0:32:44.600
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, we don't use the word closure at all in

0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:47.200
<v Speaker 7>the world of the missing anymore. We refer to it

0:32:47.200 --> 0:32:51.560
<v Speaker 7>as ambiguous loss because we know that something has happened,

0:32:51.600 --> 0:32:53.520
<v Speaker 7>but we don't know how, the where, the the why,

0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:57.160
<v Speaker 7>So we like to refer it to it as ambiguity.

0:32:57.480 --> 0:33:00.440
<v Speaker 7>And that's actually a huge trauma to actually people to

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:04.960
<v Speaker 7>deal with who live with that. And I think that

0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:08.800
<v Speaker 7>there's a point of resolution today with the coroner telling me,

0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:11.320
<v Speaker 7>And you know, I appreciated that she looked me in

0:33:11.360 --> 0:33:12.920
<v Speaker 7>the eye as she was giving a lot of her

0:33:12.920 --> 0:33:16.800
<v Speaker 7>handing downs, and I know that, you know, she cares

0:33:16.960 --> 0:33:19.520
<v Speaker 7>about my mum and that she wanted to do her best.

0:33:19.560 --> 0:33:21.880
<v Speaker 7>And I'm really grateful for the efforts. It's been nearly

0:33:21.920 --> 0:33:25.640
<v Speaker 7>three years of inquest, so it's been mammoth and it's

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:28.480
<v Speaker 7>been a huge task to undertake for myself personally and

0:33:28.480 --> 0:33:29.320
<v Speaker 7>my family as well.

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:32.440
<v Speaker 13>She made some pretty escaping findings about mister Bloom or

0:33:32.480 --> 0:33:34.960
<v Speaker 13>mister Blum. What did you make of those.

0:33:34.880 --> 0:33:37.880
<v Speaker 7>Upon hearing them? Well, I was glad to hear it

0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:39.880
<v Speaker 7>come from her. You know, we've been waiting for a

0:33:39.880 --> 0:33:42.600
<v Speaker 7>long time to hear what her opinion was on the situation,

0:33:43.360 --> 0:33:45.280
<v Speaker 7>and I think we've all got our own opinions on

0:33:45.440 --> 0:33:47.240
<v Speaker 7>the situation, and it was just nice to hear it

0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:50.240
<v Speaker 7>from her in her role as the new Southwestate coroner.

0:33:51.000 --> 0:33:54.080
<v Speaker 13>She stopped short of recommending that police lay charges against

0:33:54.120 --> 0:33:57.920
<v Speaker 13>him over your mum's death. How did that feel?

0:33:58.320 --> 0:34:01.920
<v Speaker 5>Look, who is kind of expected from my point of view?

0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:05.040
<v Speaker 7>You know, I know I knew in my heart that

0:34:05.120 --> 0:34:07.320
<v Speaker 7>I would have to fight harder and longer to get

0:34:07.320 --> 0:34:09.040
<v Speaker 7>the ancests to what's actually happened.

0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:10.919
<v Speaker 5>So I'm prepared for the fight.

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:11.600
<v Speaker 7>You know.

0:34:11.719 --> 0:34:13.120
<v Speaker 5>I haven't given up yet.

0:34:13.600 --> 0:34:15.400
<v Speaker 7>I don't know what keeps me going, but you know,

0:34:15.880 --> 0:34:19.359
<v Speaker 7>I probably need a breather from this, and then we

0:34:19.400 --> 0:34:21.839
<v Speaker 7>have some pretty big plans to keep on keeping on

0:34:21.880 --> 0:34:23.839
<v Speaker 7>because we know the answers are out there and I'm

0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:25.680
<v Speaker 7>just certainly not one person to give up.

0:34:25.920 --> 0:34:28.000
<v Speaker 5>I should clarify that I probably don't have a break.

0:34:28.320 --> 0:34:32.280
<v Speaker 7>I'm doing four live shows with Alison and Brian Seymour

0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:36.800
<v Speaker 7>and from Channel seven, and we're doing those. They start

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:38.839
<v Speaker 7>in on the Gold Coast where Mum actually went missing

0:34:38.920 --> 0:34:41.440
<v Speaker 7>on the tenth of March, and then We've got two

0:34:41.480 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 7>shows in Brisbane consecutive days and then one down here

0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:48.239
<v Speaker 7>in Sydney at Randwick and they're a fundraiser that we've

0:34:48.239 --> 0:34:52.080
<v Speaker 7>put together with the funds helping Joony Condos, who's been

0:34:52.600 --> 0:34:55.239
<v Speaker 7>an instrumental person in helping me gather information on my

0:34:55.320 --> 0:34:59.439
<v Speaker 7>mum's case. We're heading overseas together ourselves later in the year.

0:35:00.320 --> 0:35:02.680
<v Speaker 7>I obviously needed a death certificate to be able to

0:35:03.360 --> 0:35:06.120
<v Speaker 7>access information about my mum because privacy has been one

0:35:06.160 --> 0:35:08.080
<v Speaker 7>of the massive hurdles I've had to deal with over

0:35:08.120 --> 0:35:11.719
<v Speaker 7>the years where I can't garner any information without that.

0:35:11.880 --> 0:35:15.359
<v Speaker 7>So as sad as it is a bittersweet as it

0:35:15.400 --> 0:35:17.279
<v Speaker 7>is to have the desertificity is really a big part

0:35:17.320 --> 0:35:18.080
<v Speaker 7>of the story.

0:35:18.400 --> 0:35:21.440
<v Speaker 13>When does it stop? Is that when you see charges

0:35:21.520 --> 0:35:23.600
<v Speaker 13>laid or is that when you have a more detailed

0:35:23.680 --> 0:35:25.319
<v Speaker 13>understanding of what happened to your mum.

0:35:26.120 --> 0:35:28.920
<v Speaker 7>I would like to see justice served, and there's certain

0:35:28.920 --> 0:35:32.239
<v Speaker 7>elements of that that need to be need to be

0:35:32.280 --> 0:35:37.640
<v Speaker 7>looked into. There's certain people that I've contacted recently, like

0:35:38.080 --> 0:35:43.920
<v Speaker 7>the AFP Peter Dutton's office, where things like the citizenship

0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:48.480
<v Speaker 7>application that Rick Blum applied for that needs investigation from

0:35:48.520 --> 0:35:51.239
<v Speaker 7>a higher person than myself. And I've been told by

0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:53.960
<v Speaker 7>all of those people, and I'm not just singling out

0:35:53.960 --> 0:35:56.239
<v Speaker 7>those two, but they've all said to me, Oh, we

0:35:56.320 --> 0:35:58.759
<v Speaker 7>need to wait for the inquest to finish. So the

0:35:58.800 --> 0:36:02.319
<v Speaker 7>inquest is finished, so let's go. Let's start action on

0:36:02.440 --> 0:36:04.360
<v Speaker 7>those sorts of things that we know for fact and

0:36:04.400 --> 0:36:07.800
<v Speaker 7>are in the brief of evidence and publicly available documents

0:36:07.840 --> 0:36:08.920
<v Speaker 7>for anybody to see.

0:36:08.960 --> 0:36:11.960
<v Speaker 5>So I really would encourage that to happen.

0:36:11.960 --> 0:36:15.239
<v Speaker 7>And I'd also like to do a call out if

0:36:15.239 --> 0:36:18.800
<v Speaker 7>I can, to the new South Wales Police Commissioner Karen Webb.

0:36:19.040 --> 0:36:22.120
<v Speaker 7>I'd really like to see my mum's case garner a

0:36:22.120 --> 0:36:26.879
<v Speaker 7>million dollars in a reward for any information about her

0:36:26.920 --> 0:36:30.839
<v Speaker 7>disappearance and her death. So I really I think everyone

0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:33.319
<v Speaker 7>would agree with me that that's deserving. She's been missing

0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:38.359
<v Speaker 7>for twenty seven years and someone knows something, so we

0:36:38.400 --> 0:36:40.480
<v Speaker 7>need to put it out there for them to come forward.

0:36:40.719 --> 0:36:44.000
<v Speaker 8>The reporter asks Sally about me and Allison, as we're

0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:45.320
<v Speaker 8>both standing right there.

0:36:45.800 --> 0:36:48.200
<v Speaker 5>We've worked together for five years now. You know.

0:36:48.239 --> 0:36:50.719
<v Speaker 7>I was only saying to Chris last night sitting at

0:36:50.719 --> 0:36:54.000
<v Speaker 7>the hotel, and I said, I asked you five years

0:36:54.000 --> 0:36:56.719
<v Speaker 7>ago if you could give me six months to do.

0:36:56.920 --> 0:36:59.000
<v Speaker 7>After I'd met Allison, I said, can I have six

0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:01.239
<v Speaker 7>months to try? And mum and he goes and it

0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:02.879
<v Speaker 7>was at the table with all the kids as well,

0:37:02.880 --> 0:37:05.759
<v Speaker 7>and they all said yes, that's fine. Five years later,

0:37:05.800 --> 0:37:10.080
<v Speaker 7>we're here. So it's for anybody who's questioning it. It's

0:37:10.239 --> 0:37:14.239
<v Speaker 7>very long, arduous journey. It's not easy. It's very stressful,

0:37:15.040 --> 0:37:18.760
<v Speaker 7>and as I've said, you know, without people and humans

0:37:18.080 --> 0:37:20.960
<v Speaker 7>in your circle, it's very hard to manage.

0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:22.120
<v Speaker 5>So I'm really grateful for that.

0:37:22.640 --> 0:37:25.840
<v Speaker 7>If someone is missing, particularly a woman, and that woman

0:37:25.880 --> 0:37:28.960
<v Speaker 7>has children and a family, please do not say it's

0:37:28.960 --> 0:37:32.319
<v Speaker 7>not suspicious. You should start it suspicious and work your

0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:34.319
<v Speaker 7>way back. If you find them in twenty four hours,

0:37:34.360 --> 0:37:36.399
<v Speaker 7>we'll pat on the back. That's great, But don't come

0:37:36.400 --> 0:37:38.520
<v Speaker 7>in ten days later and go, oh, it's suspicious now,

0:37:38.640 --> 0:37:40.840
<v Speaker 7>because it was suspicious to begin with. And we actually

0:37:40.880 --> 0:37:44.440
<v Speaker 7>need more action taken at those high level entry levels

0:37:44.560 --> 0:37:47.440
<v Speaker 7>when someone goes missing, and particularly if a family members

0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:51.879
<v Speaker 7>saying something's wrong, like I did. You know that's where

0:37:51.880 --> 0:37:54.240
<v Speaker 7>I'm at right now because they didn't take me seriously

0:37:54.280 --> 0:37:56.399
<v Speaker 7>back then, and you know, I think the coroner gave

0:37:56.440 --> 0:37:59.920
<v Speaker 7>some pretty scathing replies to the New South Wales Police

0:38:00.040 --> 0:38:00.919
<v Speaker 7>how they handled the case.

0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:02.120
<v Speaker 5>They didn't follow procedure.

0:38:03.040 --> 0:38:06.399
<v Speaker 7>They did things like marked my mum as located when

0:38:06.440 --> 0:38:08.799
<v Speaker 7>she had not been and that's something that has been

0:38:08.920 --> 0:38:11.320
<v Speaker 7>very upsetting for me, and it runs through your blood.

0:38:11.440 --> 0:38:16.120
<v Speaker 7>It's very very hard to swallow. And I haven't even

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:18.799
<v Speaker 7>had an apology. If I can put it, put it

0:38:18.840 --> 0:38:21.680
<v Speaker 7>out there. You know, I still haven't from the police

0:38:22.280 --> 0:38:24.960
<v Speaker 7>had any apology for how I've been treated.

0:38:25.760 --> 0:38:28.080
<v Speaker 5>You probably will. Five all watched the inquest.

0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:30.319
<v Speaker 7>I was I was treated pretty harshly as well, so

0:38:30.640 --> 0:38:34.040
<v Speaker 7>and the coroner recognized that as well in her findings today.

0:38:34.120 --> 0:38:36.720
<v Speaker 7>So it has been a hard journey and I'm happy

0:38:36.760 --> 0:38:38.680
<v Speaker 7>to be here and I'm happy to have so many

0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:40.440
<v Speaker 7>people wearing green for my mum today.

0:38:40.800 --> 0:38:43.239
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, it's a bittersweet day.

0:38:43.360 --> 0:38:44.759
<v Speaker 13>Can you tell us about your mum?

0:38:45.880 --> 0:38:50.799
<v Speaker 7>Oh my mum, M Well, my mum was. We're very

0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:54.080
<v Speaker 7>different humans. I always used to joke and say I

0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:58.520
<v Speaker 7>like top forty and she likes bark. But we got

0:38:58.560 --> 0:39:02.160
<v Speaker 7>on quite well as a mother daughter. She was a

0:39:02.200 --> 0:39:03.960
<v Speaker 7>busy mum. She was a single mum for most of

0:39:03.960 --> 0:39:06.879
<v Speaker 7>our life. And obviously I'd like to mention my brother too.

0:39:06.920 --> 0:39:11.120
<v Speaker 7>He's not here today, and you know, he he took

0:39:11.160 --> 0:39:14.799
<v Speaker 7>his own life because the police told us that my

0:39:14.880 --> 0:39:19.279
<v Speaker 7>mum didn't want us in her world anymore. And uh,

0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:23.120
<v Speaker 7>that's had huge ramifications for me and my dad and

0:39:23.160 --> 0:39:26.840
<v Speaker 7>my family. But I speak for him today as well.

0:39:26.960 --> 0:39:30.040
<v Speaker 7>But my mom loved us both. She treated us well,

0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:32.920
<v Speaker 7>she fed us well, we always dressed beautifully as kids.

0:39:33.320 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 7>And she was an intelligent, award winning school teacher. She

0:39:39.040 --> 0:39:41.520
<v Speaker 7>had just won the Best Teacher in Queensland and was

0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:44.719
<v Speaker 7>awarded that in November of ninety six by Ida. Buttro's

0:39:44.800 --> 0:39:48.800
<v Speaker 7>who she adored, and that if you put the timeline

0:39:48.840 --> 0:39:51.319
<v Speaker 7>into that, she she was gone and done out of

0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:55.360
<v Speaker 7>this prefer all in in June the following year. So

0:39:56.360 --> 0:39:58.480
<v Speaker 7>there's some thing's gone on there and the timeline is

0:39:58.520 --> 0:40:00.440
<v Speaker 7>really important to getting the answers.

0:40:00.480 --> 0:40:03.520
<v Speaker 5>But yeah, I miss my mum. It's hard not having

0:40:03.560 --> 0:40:04.799
<v Speaker 5>a mum to talk to you.

0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:08.560
<v Speaker 7>It's hard not having her as a friend, especially when

0:40:08.560 --> 0:40:10.279
<v Speaker 7>you're having babies and things like that as well.

0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:13.040
<v Speaker 5>And yeah, I miss her. I miss her.

0:40:13.080 --> 0:40:14.000
<v Speaker 1>I'd be really proud of you.

0:40:14.680 --> 0:40:15.839
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, I hope. So I hope.

0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:18.239
<v Speaker 7>I hope she'd I think she'd be going good on

0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:21.839
<v Speaker 7>yourself like she'd she would always sort of just give

0:40:21.880 --> 0:40:23.839
<v Speaker 7>me a pat on the back because I'm a bit

0:40:23.840 --> 0:40:26.080
<v Speaker 7>of a go getter and I do I do things

0:40:26.640 --> 0:40:28.839
<v Speaker 7>not by halves, and she's known that about me, and

0:40:29.200 --> 0:40:30.879
<v Speaker 7>I think she'd be proud of the fact that I'm

0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:34.319
<v Speaker 7>fighting for her and I'm giving her a voice because unfortunately,

0:40:34.360 --> 0:40:37.160
<v Speaker 7>when someone does go missing, it's falls back to those

0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:39.640
<v Speaker 7>people in her family or when you're at their family,

0:40:39.719 --> 0:40:42.439
<v Speaker 7>to be the voice, and that's hard.

0:40:42.680 --> 0:40:45.000
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, I just miss her now.

0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:47.520
<v Speaker 8>Allison asks Sally a few more questions.

0:40:47.800 --> 0:40:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Five years ago, you didn't know what had happened to

0:40:50.520 --> 0:40:52.200
<v Speaker 1>your mom. Do you feel like you know now?

0:40:53.000 --> 0:40:56.680
<v Speaker 7>I'm definitely have a better understanding. I mean, obviously, you know,

0:40:56.920 --> 0:40:59.720
<v Speaker 7>even the coroner can't tell us where, when, how, why,

0:40:59.760 --> 0:41:03.760
<v Speaker 7>But I know she's deceased, and you know, the coroner

0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:08.439
<v Speaker 7>has firmly suggested that mister Blum was with my mum

0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:10.279
<v Speaker 7>when she came back to Australia, and I think that

0:41:10.440 --> 0:41:14.120
<v Speaker 7>was a pretty big call from her and one that's

0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:18.480
<v Speaker 7>important in the case. So I hope, yeah, I hope

0:41:18.480 --> 0:41:20.759
<v Speaker 7>the police want to look into that a little bit further.

0:41:22.719 --> 0:41:25.239
<v Speaker 1>Now, you don't know the manner of the death. I

0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:27.560
<v Speaker 1>think you know, I know you've said before you have

0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:33.960
<v Speaker 1>a much better understand Do you feel as though justice

0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:35.720
<v Speaker 1>can be served in these circumstances.

0:41:36.560 --> 0:41:37.479
<v Speaker 5>Well, I certainly hope.

0:41:37.520 --> 0:41:41.840
<v Speaker 7>So, you know, I can't answer that because I'm always

0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:44.719
<v Speaker 7>gagged by other people and what they say and what

0:41:44.760 --> 0:41:45.359
<v Speaker 7>they want to do.

0:41:45.480 --> 0:41:46.800
<v Speaker 5>So if people want to take.

0:41:46.680 --> 0:41:50.000
<v Speaker 7>It on board and actually work on it and do something,

0:41:50.200 --> 0:41:52.920
<v Speaker 7>who can That would be amazing. And you know there's

0:41:53.000 --> 0:41:55.799
<v Speaker 7>always a possibility that we can find the truth. Yes,

0:41:55.840 --> 0:41:59.320
<v Speaker 7>and look the detectives on the case of recent times,

0:41:59.600 --> 0:42:02.719
<v Speaker 7>you know, there's supportive, They're caring. They've told me that,

0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:04.640
<v Speaker 7>you know, they're here for me if I need anything.

0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:07.200
<v Speaker 7>But it is hard as a daughter to take it

0:42:07.239 --> 0:42:08.480
<v Speaker 7>all on and have to do a lot of it,

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:11.799
<v Speaker 7>you know, yourself, because they're busy doing other things. So

0:42:11.800 --> 0:42:16.239
<v Speaker 7>it does does make it extremely exhausting. But you know,

0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:17.800
<v Speaker 7>I'm happy to be able to do it and happy

0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:20.480
<v Speaker 7>to help. I've always given everybody everything because I just

0:42:20.480 --> 0:42:22.719
<v Speaker 7>want the answers. So I'll just have to continue down

0:42:22.760 --> 0:42:23.360
<v Speaker 7>that route.

0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:27.880
<v Speaker 1>Sally and her support has gather for a group photo.

0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:32.279
<v Speaker 1>Then Brian and Sally talk about some of the specific findings.

0:42:32.520 --> 0:42:35.200
<v Speaker 8>I was watching you when the coroner was giving your finding,

0:42:35.280 --> 0:42:37.360
<v Speaker 8>so you're pretty stoic. You didn't share much emotion, but

0:42:37.400 --> 0:42:39.239
<v Speaker 8>I'm guessing it was boiling away inside.

0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:40.720
<v Speaker 5>It was boiling.

0:42:41.360 --> 0:42:44.040
<v Speaker 7>There was a few tears, like just weelling, but I

0:42:44.120 --> 0:42:45.440
<v Speaker 7>just wanted to try and keep.

0:42:46.880 --> 0:42:49.400
<v Speaker 5>Keep it together. It's important that you do that, so

0:42:49.920 --> 0:42:52.839
<v Speaker 5>I cried, Yeah, I did. I looked at you.

0:42:52.840 --> 0:42:55.279
<v Speaker 7>Once and then I got distracted. I was like, I

0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:57.160
<v Speaker 7>need to look back at the car, and I dismissed

0:42:57.200 --> 0:42:58.160
<v Speaker 7>what she said.

0:42:57.960 --> 0:43:01.040
<v Speaker 8>And she looked at you. She made teaching, she did often.

0:43:01.160 --> 0:43:03.160
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, she looked at me at a lot of points.

0:43:03.200 --> 0:43:04.640
<v Speaker 5>And I have a lot of time for her.

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:08.640
<v Speaker 7>She's obviously thought long and hard about the decisions and

0:43:08.840 --> 0:43:11.760
<v Speaker 7>what the invidence is that's before her, and I'm really

0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:16.360
<v Speaker 7>grateful for the opportunity because obviously I was even fighting.

0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:18.399
<v Speaker 7>If you think back to when we first started. When

0:43:18.400 --> 0:43:20.160
<v Speaker 7>I wrote to the coroner, I had Gary she in

0:43:20.280 --> 0:43:22.000
<v Speaker 7>telling me that it's not a New South Walest case,

0:43:22.000 --> 0:43:24.800
<v Speaker 7>it's a Queensland case and it should be referred to Queensland.

0:43:24.800 --> 0:43:26.120
<v Speaker 5>And he just didn't want a bar of it.

0:43:26.320 --> 0:43:29.480
<v Speaker 7>So that was quite momentous to get to that point

0:43:30.200 --> 0:43:32.239
<v Speaker 7>even of just having an inquest and then who would

0:43:32.239 --> 0:43:33.919
<v Speaker 7>have thought it would take three years to get here,

0:43:33.960 --> 0:43:38.719
<v Speaker 7>so exhausting long, But you know, it's good to have

0:43:38.800 --> 0:43:41.279
<v Speaker 7>her verbalize it to me and I can sit there

0:43:41.320 --> 0:43:43.520
<v Speaker 7>and process at now and work at what the next

0:43:43.560 --> 0:43:43.960
<v Speaker 7>step is.

0:43:44.160 --> 0:43:46.560
<v Speaker 8>In particular, just a couple of the key findings. Obviously,

0:43:46.640 --> 0:43:49.560
<v Speaker 8>she found that your mum has passed away, but she

0:43:49.600 --> 0:43:52.839
<v Speaker 8>also found that Rick Bloom had a relationship with your

0:43:52.920 --> 0:43:54.640
<v Speaker 8>mum and lured her with the promise of a new

0:43:54.680 --> 0:43:57.840
<v Speaker 8>life overseas. That's an official finding. That's a huge vindication.

0:43:58.120 --> 0:44:01.040
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, well we knew that, right, we put it all together.

0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:03.120
<v Speaker 7>You and I got on a plane and went to

0:44:03.400 --> 0:44:06.680
<v Speaker 7>Luxembourg together to go and saw the answers before any

0:44:06.719 --> 0:44:09.920
<v Speaker 7>of that even happened. So, you know, I think just

0:44:09.960 --> 0:44:13.680
<v Speaker 7>hearing it from someone of official, you know, an official level, is.

0:44:14.080 --> 0:44:16.960
<v Speaker 8>Important, and that the police didn't do their job at

0:44:16.960 --> 0:44:19.520
<v Speaker 8>the start, and that this your mum could have been

0:44:19.560 --> 0:44:21.560
<v Speaker 8>found if they'd done their job properly. I mean, there's

0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:22.840
<v Speaker 8>a chance she could have been found.

0:44:23.600 --> 0:44:23.839
<v Speaker 5>Yeah.

0:44:23.880 --> 0:44:26.400
<v Speaker 7>Well, I'm still stuck on a bit of the whole

0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:31.200
<v Speaker 7>situation with his citizenship application, you know, because that reality

0:44:31.239 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 7>is if the police and immigration had actually done their

0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:40.080
<v Speaker 7>job back in six year, you know, he might not

0:44:40.160 --> 0:44:43.120
<v Speaker 7>have actually been allowed to enter into Australia. And then

0:44:43.200 --> 0:44:45.959
<v Speaker 7>that that's a whole nother ballgame, whole nother story really.

0:44:46.200 --> 0:44:48.759
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, and just the finding that Gary Sheen, you know,

0:44:48.800 --> 0:44:52.000
<v Speaker 8>obviously announced your mum had been located, took her off

0:44:52.000 --> 0:44:53.120
<v Speaker 8>the missing persons register.

0:44:53.160 --> 0:44:53.600
<v Speaker 7>It's just an.

0:44:53.640 --> 0:44:56.359
<v Speaker 8>Arbitrary, totally unwarranted act. I mean, it just makes me

0:44:56.880 --> 0:44:59.320
<v Speaker 8>insane with rage to think that that could have happened.

0:45:00.000 --> 0:45:01.840
<v Speaker 8>Good to hear the Comdent today confirmed that was his

0:45:01.880 --> 0:45:02.520
<v Speaker 8>flat out wrong.

0:45:02.760 --> 0:45:03.040
<v Speaker 7>Yeah.

0:45:03.080 --> 0:45:05.239
<v Speaker 5>And I've always been you've seen me with him.

0:45:05.280 --> 0:45:07.440
<v Speaker 7>I always tried to be so nice and kind and

0:45:07.520 --> 0:45:09.160
<v Speaker 7>giving of information.

0:45:09.320 --> 0:45:10.200
<v Speaker 8>And he's a nice guy.

0:45:10.320 --> 0:45:12.279
<v Speaker 5>He's a nice guy. But he made an error like

0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:13.080
<v Speaker 5>that was an error.

0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:16.160
<v Speaker 7>You don't list someone as located when you have never

0:45:16.200 --> 0:45:19.279
<v Speaker 7>cited them or seen them. And you know, and the

0:45:19.360 --> 0:45:21.920
<v Speaker 7>fact is there's another element of that where they didn't

0:45:21.960 --> 0:45:25.480
<v Speaker 7>follow protocol. So the Missing Person's Unit are not authorized

0:45:25.520 --> 0:45:26.279
<v Speaker 7>to be able to.

0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:29.280
<v Speaker 5>Mark someone as located.

0:45:29.520 --> 0:45:32.440
<v Speaker 7>It has to come from the local police, which is

0:45:32.440 --> 0:45:34.359
<v Speaker 7>Gary Shan, but he sort of pushed it onto them.

0:45:34.640 --> 0:45:36.880
<v Speaker 7>They made the call, so even that in itself is

0:45:37.000 --> 0:45:40.600
<v Speaker 7>not by the book. And that's that was really hard

0:45:40.640 --> 0:45:43.120
<v Speaker 7>for me. I remember that that phone call so well,

0:45:44.320 --> 0:45:46.400
<v Speaker 7>and I could not fathom that they would sit there

0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:48.759
<v Speaker 7>and mark her located. And you know, we spoke about

0:45:48.760 --> 0:45:51.640
<v Speaker 7>it on the podcast where he said to me, you know, oh,

0:45:51.640 --> 0:45:53.760
<v Speaker 7>well there's a box for missing, and there's a box

0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:56.920
<v Speaker 7>for located. There's nothing in the middle, so we have

0:45:56.960 --> 0:45:59.680
<v Speaker 7>to mark her as located because we believe that's that

0:45:59.719 --> 0:46:02.480
<v Speaker 7>she's gone missing on her own account. And I'm like,

0:46:02.680 --> 0:46:06.719
<v Speaker 7>no one's really looking deep into that, like they're just

0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:09.319
<v Speaker 7>it's just the police just say it and then I'm

0:46:09.360 --> 0:46:11.359
<v Speaker 7>expected as a family member to just accept it.

0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:14.640
<v Speaker 8>And well Gary also said he checked told me when

0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:17.040
<v Speaker 8>I interviewed, and that he checked the Queensland Department of

0:46:17.080 --> 0:46:20.960
<v Speaker 8>Transport and that license was sitting there since nineteen eighty eight,

0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:23.680
<v Speaker 8>correct in that name, he could have located Rick Bloomber.

0:46:23.840 --> 0:46:26.760
<v Speaker 7>Frustrating, you know, all the fact that they were looking

0:46:26.800 --> 0:46:29.520
<v Speaker 7>for a doctor in Raften and not an optometrist, like

0:46:30.080 --> 0:46:32.279
<v Speaker 7>if they had actually found that information when it was

0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:35.279
<v Speaker 7>noted there's a very good chance the records would have

0:46:35.280 --> 0:46:37.719
<v Speaker 7>still been held, and we had Dean Evans, who was

0:46:37.760 --> 0:46:39.840
<v Speaker 7>the optometrist, on the stand at the inquest, and he

0:46:39.960 --> 0:46:42.160
<v Speaker 7>said that she would have filled out a new patient

0:46:42.200 --> 0:46:45.000
<v Speaker 7>card and that would have had an address on it,

0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:47.440
<v Speaker 7>maybe a phone number, and that would have been a

0:46:47.520 --> 0:46:50.160
<v Speaker 7>massive find and that was lost because they were looking

0:46:50.160 --> 0:46:50.720
<v Speaker 7>for a doctor.

0:46:50.800 --> 0:46:55.040
<v Speaker 8>The coronor also found that Rick Bloom lud your mum

0:46:55.120 --> 0:46:57.480
<v Speaker 8>away with the promise of a new life, that he

0:46:57.800 --> 0:47:01.120
<v Speaker 8>did convince her to withdraw money. She couldn't say that

0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:04.279
<v Speaker 8>he received the money, and that he knew more than

0:47:04.320 --> 0:47:06.799
<v Speaker 8>he was telling that he was evidence. She dismissed his

0:47:06.880 --> 0:47:10.399
<v Speaker 8>claims outright as a liar and that he knows more

0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:12.759
<v Speaker 8>than he is told, and she encouraged the New South

0:47:12.800 --> 0:47:16.400
<v Speaker 8>Wales Police, the homicide team to continue investigating this case.

0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:19.719
<v Speaker 8>That possibly was a little stronger than I thought she

0:47:19.840 --> 0:47:23.040
<v Speaker 8>might go having sat in many coronial inquist findings. What

0:47:23.120 --> 0:47:24.200
<v Speaker 8>was your reaction to hearing that.

0:47:25.160 --> 0:47:27.400
<v Speaker 7>Well, she pretty much just said what I was thinking.

0:47:27.880 --> 0:47:31.400
<v Speaker 7>So I think anybody who sat through his evidence would

0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:35.640
<v Speaker 7>know that there's a lot that's been said. But yeah,

0:47:35.719 --> 0:47:37.800
<v Speaker 7>I don't know if I believe him much of what

0:47:38.239 --> 0:47:40.279
<v Speaker 7>comes out of his mouth, So I would like the

0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:46.280
<v Speaker 7>police to keep looking. You know, Laura Richards has always

0:47:46.320 --> 0:47:48.440
<v Speaker 7>said to me, you know, age should not be a

0:47:48.560 --> 0:47:51.280
<v Speaker 7>reason as to why you don't sort of keep asking questions.

0:47:51.320 --> 0:47:54.520
<v Speaker 7>So yeah, I'm just I'm in that holding pattern right

0:47:54.560 --> 0:47:58.440
<v Speaker 7>now where I can't really can't really comment on what

0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:00.880
<v Speaker 7>other people think or say, but I know what I

0:48:00.920 --> 0:48:03.520
<v Speaker 7>feel in my heart, so that's just going to keep

0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:06.800
<v Speaker 7>me going. I just would have liked her to refer

0:48:06.840 --> 0:48:09.160
<v Speaker 7>it to the DPP for further investigation. So I think

0:48:09.200 --> 0:48:11.920
<v Speaker 7>there's more to see, you know, more to find, more

0:48:11.920 --> 0:48:14.680
<v Speaker 7>to look at, more to investigate, more than anything.

0:48:14.800 --> 0:48:16.880
<v Speaker 8>So and she said it's the homicide squad, then the

0:48:16.960 --> 0:48:19.160
<v Speaker 8>Southwest Police to do exactly that. Do you have faith

0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:21.200
<v Speaker 8>that they will be able to complete an investigation and

0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:24.320
<v Speaker 8>maybe lay charges against someone?

0:48:24.560 --> 0:48:26.959
<v Speaker 5>I don't know. I don't know. We'll have to see.

0:48:27.080 --> 0:48:30.440
<v Speaker 7>I just got told that they're very busy, so we'll

0:48:30.480 --> 0:48:34.839
<v Speaker 7>see how that pans out. But I would hope, so,

0:48:34.920 --> 0:48:36.600
<v Speaker 7>I hope so they will gave me a nice hug

0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:39.040
<v Speaker 7>and you know, wish me well. So I'm hoping that

0:48:39.920 --> 0:48:45.000
<v Speaker 7>I'm hoping that they will yeah help bring justice for

0:48:45.080 --> 0:48:45.879
<v Speaker 7>my mum.

0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:48.760
<v Speaker 8>Just on a personal note, it's been just a pleasure

0:48:48.760 --> 0:48:51.080
<v Speaker 8>to meet you. I can remember vividly the first time

0:48:51.120 --> 0:48:52.840
<v Speaker 8>I went to your house in Risbon, did that interview

0:48:52.840 --> 0:48:57.680
<v Speaker 8>in November twenty eighteen, and just how unbelievable even then

0:48:57.760 --> 0:49:00.440
<v Speaker 8>when we knew so little your mum's story was. I

0:49:00.520 --> 0:49:03.160
<v Speaker 8>couldn't imagine where it had gone. But you're an absolute hero,

0:49:03.960 --> 0:49:05.719
<v Speaker 8>not just of all the followers around the world, but

0:49:05.800 --> 0:49:07.600
<v Speaker 8>to me as well and everyone involved in the case.

0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:09.960
<v Speaker 8>Good on you for hanging in there. Thank you and

0:49:10.000 --> 0:49:12.520
<v Speaker 8>congratulations on getting this far. It's a huge milestone.

0:49:12.520 --> 0:49:12.680
<v Speaker 13>Hope.

0:49:12.719 --> 0:49:14.440
<v Speaker 8>You know just how important it is to get to

0:49:14.440 --> 0:49:18.560
<v Speaker 8>this stage now do your whole approach and your perseverance

0:49:18.600 --> 0:49:19.799
<v Speaker 8>has been Yeah.

0:49:19.600 --> 0:49:23.080
<v Speaker 7>I'm very grateful for the I'm grateful for it, the

0:49:23.200 --> 0:49:25.320
<v Speaker 7>opportunity to be able to get to a coigner's in

0:49:25.400 --> 0:49:27.120
<v Speaker 7>quest and you know I send you that to you guys.

0:49:27.440 --> 0:49:29.879
<v Speaker 7>At best, I would like just a proper investigation done,

0:49:29.880 --> 0:49:32.279
<v Speaker 7>because I just really felt for so long it wasn't

0:49:32.320 --> 0:49:36.040
<v Speaker 7>being done properly, and I feel like I've got to

0:49:36.080 --> 0:49:38.799
<v Speaker 7>that point. I don't know if where at the end

0:49:39.239 --> 0:49:40.000
<v Speaker 7>we need to keep moving.

0:49:40.000 --> 0:49:42.239
<v Speaker 5>I would have liked to be at the end so

0:49:42.320 --> 0:49:43.120
<v Speaker 5>I can just rest.

0:49:44.040 --> 0:49:47.080
<v Speaker 7>But yeah, Joanie and I have got a few more

0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:49.239
<v Speaker 7>things that we have to do, and we'll share with

0:49:49.280 --> 0:49:51.640
<v Speaker 7>you what we find and what we what we do

0:49:51.719 --> 0:49:52.240
<v Speaker 7>moving forward.

0:49:52.400 --> 0:49:55.520
<v Speaker 8>Well, I'll be listening in with everyone else for the best.

0:49:55.560 --> 0:50:00.480
<v Speaker 1>Thanks as soon as the findings were published each DAP

0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:05.040
<v Speaker 1>to our criminal behavioral analyst Laura Richards, formerly of New

0:50:05.080 --> 0:50:06.919
<v Speaker 1>Scotland Yard, Well, I mean.

0:50:06.840 --> 0:50:10.720
<v Speaker 14>I think firstly, the coroner was very respectful in tone

0:50:11.280 --> 0:50:14.120
<v Speaker 14>to Sally and pay tribute to her.

0:50:14.360 --> 0:50:17.759
<v Speaker 6>So I think that the tone felt very respectful.

0:50:17.280 --> 0:50:24.240
<v Speaker 14>Her, paying tribute to Sally's non stop questioning and also

0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:27.839
<v Speaker 14>humanizing Marian. I thought that was a very important part

0:50:27.920 --> 0:50:32.759
<v Speaker 14>of the proceedings. I wish other people would do that

0:50:33.080 --> 0:50:39.040
<v Speaker 14>when talking about cases we loved ones. I think that

0:50:39.560 --> 0:50:42.040
<v Speaker 14>there was a lot of information to process, and I

0:50:42.120 --> 0:50:45.960
<v Speaker 14>was furiously writing down everything she said, and it's one

0:50:46.040 --> 0:50:49.680
<v Speaker 14>hundred and sixty eight pages of her ruling, so I

0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:53.880
<v Speaker 14>tried to as she said, the headlines the pertinent points

0:50:53.960 --> 0:50:57.040
<v Speaker 14>for her, and I've tried to summarize them to make

0:50:57.120 --> 0:50:58.120
<v Speaker 14>sense of myself.

0:50:58.200 --> 0:51:01.720
<v Speaker 6>But I think the significant.

0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:06.680
<v Speaker 14>Things were that she acknowledged that Rick Blum was in a.

0:51:06.640 --> 0:51:09.920
<v Speaker 6>Relationship with Marion, and that.

0:51:09.840 --> 0:51:13.080
<v Speaker 14>Relationship because Rick Blum was saying, well, it was just sex.

0:51:13.160 --> 0:51:17.040
<v Speaker 14>I think it was an important acknowledgment in her findings,

0:51:18.000 --> 0:51:24.200
<v Speaker 14>and that the notepaper that was used that Marian used

0:51:24.200 --> 0:51:26.800
<v Speaker 14>to write to Sally the Hotel Nico in the Rita

0:51:26.880 --> 0:51:31.719
<v Speaker 14>Japan notepaper that was used, she acknowledged that in her

0:51:31.840 --> 0:51:34.399
<v Speaker 14>findings that she believed that Rick Blum gave that.

0:51:34.640 --> 0:51:40.200
<v Speaker 6>To Marion, so that's important. And the third part of

0:51:40.239 --> 0:51:44.319
<v Speaker 6>that was that they were in England together, and she

0:51:44.640 --> 0:51:49.719
<v Speaker 6>tended to go for the broad brush.

0:51:48.440 --> 0:51:53.520
<v Speaker 14>Pertinent findings like traveling to England together, but not being

0:51:53.960 --> 0:51:55.120
<v Speaker 14>specific about.

0:51:54.840 --> 0:51:56.720
<v Speaker 6>Everywhere they traveled. II.

0:51:56.800 --> 0:51:59.760
<v Speaker 14>She said that she can't say whether they're in Tunbridge

0:51:59.800 --> 0:52:02.799
<v Speaker 14>well and whether they traveled on to Brighton and Rye

0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:07.440
<v Speaker 14>and so forth together. But she also talked about the money,

0:52:07.520 --> 0:52:11.319
<v Speaker 14>which I thought was significant, the money that Rickdam encouraged

0:52:11.360 --> 0:52:16.880
<v Speaker 14>her to transfer that money. So again traveling to England

0:52:17.239 --> 0:52:21.520
<v Speaker 14>and traveling back back to Australia then being together that significant,

0:52:21.520 --> 0:52:26.840
<v Speaker 14>but also encouraging Rick Blum encouraging Marion to transfer the money,

0:52:27.840 --> 0:52:31.640
<v Speaker 14>and she didn't go further than that, and I thought

0:52:31.680 --> 0:52:36.360
<v Speaker 14>that that was interesting because there's no currently, there's no

0:52:36.440 --> 0:52:38.480
<v Speaker 14>money trail to say that it.

0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:40.200
<v Speaker 6>Left Marion's account and it went.

0:52:40.080 --> 0:52:45.200
<v Speaker 14>To the physical safety envelope account of Rick Blum. But

0:52:45.280 --> 0:52:48.600
<v Speaker 14>she did pass comment on the timings of that money

0:52:48.600 --> 0:52:53.360
<v Speaker 14>transfer and him opening that the safety envelope. She acknowledged

0:52:53.360 --> 0:52:56.800
<v Speaker 14>the other women and that was a very important finding

0:52:56.840 --> 0:52:58.120
<v Speaker 14>that she found them credible.

0:52:59.120 --> 0:53:01.520
<v Speaker 6>Jeanette Glaine and the women.

0:53:01.320 --> 0:53:05.200
<v Speaker 14>That you found through the Lady vanishes that Rick Blum

0:53:05.239 --> 0:53:08.080
<v Speaker 14>exploited them and that they were credible, and I think

0:53:08.080 --> 0:53:12.200
<v Speaker 14>that's very important for them to hear, and that he

0:53:12.280 --> 0:53:16.400
<v Speaker 14>also exploited Marian and she believed that that's what happened.

0:53:16.640 --> 0:53:21.520
<v Speaker 14>So she said that she believed that he had no

0:53:21.600 --> 0:53:25.080
<v Speaker 14>intention of a future with Marion because when they traveled

0:53:25.080 --> 0:53:27.080
<v Speaker 14>back to Australia really married.

0:53:27.719 --> 0:53:29.080
<v Speaker 6>And had children.

0:53:30.520 --> 0:53:32.600
<v Speaker 14>But she didn't take it to the next stage, which

0:53:32.840 --> 0:53:37.040
<v Speaker 14>I'll come back to. But she did acknowledge what Rick

0:53:37.120 --> 0:53:40.440
<v Speaker 14>Blum said in that he was an important witness, but

0:53:40.520 --> 0:53:44.080
<v Speaker 14>she could not find him credible and that the te

0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:47.799
<v Speaker 14>chest explanation, for example, she believes at the te chess

0:53:48.280 --> 0:53:52.440
<v Speaker 14>where Marion was asked to store things, and when he

0:53:52.480 --> 0:53:55.400
<v Speaker 14>taught that chess being at his she believed that that

0:53:55.480 --> 0:53:58.600
<v Speaker 14>did happen because of that happening in other cases with

0:53:58.680 --> 0:53:59.440
<v Speaker 14>the te chess.

0:54:00.200 --> 0:54:01.200
<v Speaker 6>So she clearly was.

0:54:01.239 --> 0:54:04.080
<v Speaker 14>Drawing from the other women and mapping it across to

0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:08.799
<v Speaker 14>Marian's case. But what she found implausible with was Rick

0:54:08.840 --> 0:54:12.799
<v Speaker 14>Blum's explanation that she went with this mystery man with

0:54:12.920 --> 0:54:17.800
<v Speaker 14>the tea chess somewhere, So she was dismissing him, putting

0:54:17.840 --> 0:54:23.600
<v Speaker 14>other people into the timeline, and distancing himself. And I

0:54:23.600 --> 0:54:27.360
<v Speaker 14>thought that that was interesting and significant.

0:54:27.400 --> 0:54:28.360
<v Speaker 6>The last plart.

0:54:28.120 --> 0:54:30.640
<v Speaker 14>Parts regarding Rick Blum, and there are other bits, but

0:54:30.800 --> 0:54:33.120
<v Speaker 14>just from the top of my head from having processed

0:54:33.160 --> 0:54:36.319
<v Speaker 14>it just an hour or so ago, she did say

0:54:36.360 --> 0:54:38.800
<v Speaker 14>that she felt he knew more than what he's saying,

0:54:39.920 --> 0:54:44.799
<v Speaker 14>and that he had knowledge of much more about the

0:54:44.840 --> 0:54:50.080
<v Speaker 14>overseas trip. He had knowledge of Marian and events prior

0:54:50.160 --> 0:54:54.000
<v Speaker 14>to her disappearing, that he had knowledge of Marian and

0:54:54.080 --> 0:54:58.480
<v Speaker 14>her returning and what happened thereafter once they returned to Australia,

0:54:59.000 --> 0:55:03.319
<v Speaker 14>and he knowledge about the money transfer, but that he

0:55:03.719 --> 0:55:08.640
<v Speaker 14>refused to pass that information onto the court. And I

0:55:08.719 --> 0:55:11.760
<v Speaker 14>think that that's significant that she's saying that he knows

0:55:11.840 --> 0:55:16.080
<v Speaker 14>more and if he were completely innocent. What she's not

0:55:16.160 --> 0:55:18.520
<v Speaker 14>saying in the subtext was if he were completely innocent,

0:55:18.560 --> 0:55:22.960
<v Speaker 14>he would have no reason to hide this information from

0:55:23.040 --> 0:55:26.239
<v Speaker 14>the court because it is a coroner's inquest and as

0:55:26.280 --> 0:55:29.960
<v Speaker 14>she laid out, she cannot talk about criminal offenses, she

0:55:30.040 --> 0:55:33.279
<v Speaker 14>cannot push for anything in terms of civil remedy. It

0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:39.120
<v Speaker 14>is a fact finding inquest. So she found Rick Blum

0:55:39.360 --> 0:55:43.799
<v Speaker 14>not credible and that ostensibly he knows more and he's

0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:48.799
<v Speaker 14>lying through the omission of information. And I thought it

0:55:48.840 --> 0:55:52.279
<v Speaker 14>was also interesting what she said about the police investigation

0:55:52.320 --> 0:55:55.800
<v Speaker 14>by New South Wales Police, and it does interlink because

0:55:55.800 --> 0:55:58.040
<v Speaker 14>what she said was that it wasn't adequate from the

0:55:58.080 --> 0:56:01.440
<v Speaker 14>time that Marian was reported missing by Sally, and she

0:56:01.520 --> 0:56:05.280
<v Speaker 14>went through each of the points of each officer really

0:56:05.320 --> 0:56:10.000
<v Speaker 14>failing Sally and that they didn't investigate for ten years

0:56:10.080 --> 0:56:13.719
<v Speaker 14>and because of that, there's a limited amount of information

0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:19.319
<v Speaker 14>and evidence available. Because of that, that stimmied the investigation,

0:56:19.480 --> 0:56:21.520
<v Speaker 14>which is why we are where we are, And she

0:56:22.200 --> 0:56:24.839
<v Speaker 14>didn't mince her words about that, and I think that

0:56:24.840 --> 0:56:29.200
<v Speaker 14>that's important. Had the lines of investigation and inquiry being followed,

0:56:29.200 --> 0:56:32.839
<v Speaker 14>then we wouldn't have all these question marks, so there

0:56:32.880 --> 0:56:36.720
<v Speaker 14>is an element of culpability there the New South Wales Police,

0:56:37.480 --> 0:56:42.440
<v Speaker 14>and it impacted on the availability of evidence. She of

0:56:42.520 --> 0:56:49.360
<v Speaker 14>course talked about her findings in that Marian was deceased,

0:56:49.680 --> 0:56:51.719
<v Speaker 14>and I think we all knew that she.

0:56:51.680 --> 0:56:53.040
<v Speaker 6>Would reach that conclusion.

0:56:53.160 --> 0:56:55.839
<v Speaker 14>But she could not say the date of her dying,

0:56:55.960 --> 0:56:58.080
<v Speaker 14>She could not say the place, She could not say

0:56:58.120 --> 0:57:00.759
<v Speaker 14>the cause of death or the manner of death. But

0:57:01.040 --> 0:57:06.319
<v Speaker 14>she found the circumstances troubling. That statement is important. She

0:57:06.400 --> 0:57:10.080
<v Speaker 14>found it troubling, the circumstances, and that led her really

0:57:10.120 --> 0:57:13.759
<v Speaker 14>into the next part, which was that she was referring

0:57:13.800 --> 0:57:19.200
<v Speaker 14>it to New South Wales Police for investigation, review and monitoring.

0:57:19.320 --> 0:57:23.320
<v Speaker 14>And she said very clearly the investigation was not over correct.

0:57:23.360 --> 0:57:24.280
<v Speaker 6>Had not concluded.

0:57:24.800 --> 0:57:27.480
<v Speaker 1>Yes, and I mean she certainly seems to have the

0:57:27.520 --> 0:57:31.200
<v Speaker 1>measure of the man in Rick Blum, but is limited

0:57:31.200 --> 0:57:33.800
<v Speaker 1>with how far or how how she can go in

0:57:33.840 --> 0:57:35.960
<v Speaker 1>relation to his criminality.

0:57:36.200 --> 0:57:38.920
<v Speaker 6>Yes, she has to follow the facts.

0:57:39.280 --> 0:57:43.120
<v Speaker 14>And although she has opined and taken the next step

0:57:43.160 --> 0:57:46.920
<v Speaker 14>with some points I with the tea chests and overlaying

0:57:46.960 --> 0:57:50.680
<v Speaker 14>what the other women said in their experience of Rick Blum,

0:57:50.800 --> 0:57:53.080
<v Speaker 14>but she can only take it so far, and I

0:57:53.120 --> 0:57:56.040
<v Speaker 14>did wonder whether she might put it back in the

0:57:56.040 --> 0:57:59.080
<v Speaker 14>court of either the DPP to make the decision or

0:57:59.520 --> 0:58:03.000
<v Speaker 14>the police have to do further investigation and to say

0:58:03.040 --> 0:58:04.760
<v Speaker 14>that the investigation.

0:58:04.200 --> 0:58:05.240
<v Speaker 6>Has not concluded.

0:58:05.480 --> 0:58:08.120
<v Speaker 14>I felt that that was a very you know, there

0:58:08.160 --> 0:58:10.840
<v Speaker 14>was no real emphasis on it, But what she was

0:58:10.840 --> 0:58:13.680
<v Speaker 14>really saying is it was never properly investigated and there

0:58:13.680 --> 0:58:16.240
<v Speaker 14>are still things that need to be done. There are

0:58:16.240 --> 0:58:21.000
<v Speaker 14>still stones that need to be unturned, like, for example.

0:58:21.120 --> 0:58:22.640
<v Speaker 6>Did they get married in Japan?

0:58:23.360 --> 0:58:27.120
<v Speaker 14>You know, yes, she says that ship and that Marian

0:58:27.200 --> 0:58:30.840
<v Speaker 14>believed that she was married, But if you follow that through,

0:58:31.360 --> 0:58:34.800
<v Speaker 14>maybe there's further evidence, Maybe there are other witnesses, maybe

0:58:34.840 --> 0:58:36.560
<v Speaker 14>there were things that were heard and.

0:58:36.560 --> 0:58:39.960
<v Speaker 6>It jobs people's memories.

0:58:39.520 --> 0:58:44.240
<v Speaker 14>If Sally and Joni are there asking questions. So she

0:58:44.760 --> 0:58:49.560
<v Speaker 14>had to be circumspect in what she could say, and

0:58:49.640 --> 0:58:53.080
<v Speaker 14>I believe she was very measured in that. And yes,

0:58:53.120 --> 0:58:56.520
<v Speaker 14>it's disappointing not to hear a referral to the Director

0:58:56.560 --> 0:59:03.040
<v Speaker 14>of Public Prosecutions, but I sense that she believes that

0:59:03.080 --> 0:59:04.160
<v Speaker 14>there's still.

0:59:04.000 --> 0:59:05.800
<v Speaker 6>Lines of inquiry to follow, and.

0:59:05.760 --> 0:59:08.440
<v Speaker 14>There's still evidence to find, and that she doesn't want

0:59:08.480 --> 0:59:11.840
<v Speaker 14>it just to come back with a straight there's insufficient

0:59:11.880 --> 0:59:13.320
<v Speaker 14>evidence to charge.

0:59:13.840 --> 0:59:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Look, I think that's good in the sense that yes,

0:59:16.400 --> 0:59:20.640
<v Speaker 1>she did do that. I guess the problem after speaking

0:59:20.680 --> 0:59:25.080
<v Speaker 1>to Sally afterwards, is can we rely on South Wales Police,

0:59:25.160 --> 0:59:29.680
<v Speaker 1>with all their multiple priorities, to still prioritize this and

0:59:29.800 --> 0:59:31.640
<v Speaker 1>follow up any extra information.

0:59:32.160 --> 0:59:32.400
<v Speaker 8>Yes.

0:59:32.480 --> 0:59:34.720
<v Speaker 14>Look, New South Wales Police have been in the headlines

0:59:34.760 --> 0:59:40.040
<v Speaker 14>again for not understanding high profile cases and saying things

0:59:40.160 --> 0:59:42.720
<v Speaker 14>the chief, you know, the Commissioner herself saying crime of

0:59:42.880 --> 0:59:46.000
<v Speaker 14>passion for suspected domestic commicides.

0:59:46.040 --> 0:59:47.160
<v Speaker 6>So that doesn't really.

0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:50.160
<v Speaker 14>Give much confidence, particularly given everything that's gone on with

0:59:50.240 --> 0:59:50.840
<v Speaker 14>this case.

0:59:52.000 --> 0:59:54.240
<v Speaker 6>So you know our New South Wales.

0:59:55.320 --> 0:59:59.040
<v Speaker 14>Do we have confidence in them reigniting an investigation.

1:00:00.160 --> 1:00:02.720
<v Speaker 6>No, And that's the problem.

1:00:03.200 --> 1:00:04.920
<v Speaker 14>The problem is that they didn't look at it the

1:00:04.920 --> 1:00:07.400
<v Speaker 14>first time, the second time, the third time, the fourth time.

1:00:07.560 --> 1:00:10.080
<v Speaker 14>You have got a number of officers that do seem

1:00:10.200 --> 1:00:13.760
<v Speaker 14>she commended a number of officers, but I still felt.

1:00:13.560 --> 1:00:15.919
<v Speaker 6>The June twenty twenty one police.

1:00:15.600 --> 1:00:20.960
<v Speaker 14>Interview was a real missed opportunity and that's when they

1:00:20.960 --> 1:00:24.640
<v Speaker 14>could have put pressure on Rick Bloom and they didn't

1:00:24.680 --> 1:00:27.160
<v Speaker 14>understand who he was then, so do they understand that

1:00:27.320 --> 1:00:31.080
<v Speaker 14>now and are they going to put any added investigative

1:00:31.160 --> 1:00:33.120
<v Speaker 14>resources into the case or are they just going to

1:00:33.240 --> 1:00:36.440
<v Speaker 14>let it fit there in the unsolved homicide unit. But

1:00:36.480 --> 1:00:40.840
<v Speaker 14>you'll remember with Lynett Dawson they didn't investigator either and

1:00:40.960 --> 1:00:44.600
<v Speaker 14>it went to two coroners in quests and still there

1:00:44.640 --> 1:00:48.240
<v Speaker 14>wasn't a proper investigation. Well, Headley Thomas did that investigation

1:00:48.360 --> 1:00:50.280
<v Speaker 14>and it had to be a podcast similar to what

1:00:50.320 --> 1:00:53.600
<v Speaker 14>you've done with The Lady Vanishes, And I just hope

1:00:53.600 --> 1:00:56.560
<v Speaker 14>those other pieces of evidence can be uncovered.

1:00:56.720 --> 1:00:59.439
<v Speaker 6>But I doubt Sally does have.

1:00:59.440 --> 1:01:02.440
<v Speaker 14>Confidence because that's where it's been all this time, and

1:01:02.600 --> 1:01:04.960
<v Speaker 14>still they haven't really done very much.

1:01:05.080 --> 1:01:07.000
<v Speaker 1>At least we know about Rick Blum. We have to

1:01:07.000 --> 1:01:09.200
<v Speaker 1>give them credit for that, but I mean, obviously it

1:01:09.280 --> 1:01:13.680
<v Speaker 1>had to be instigated by the podcast and the inquest

1:01:14.360 --> 1:01:17.480
<v Speaker 1>to get to that level. So so yes, it's great,

1:01:17.520 --> 1:01:20.840
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, it needs to continue. We're hoping also, you

1:01:20.880 --> 1:01:23.680
<v Speaker 1>know that by doing a book people who don't listen

1:01:23.720 --> 1:01:27.160
<v Speaker 1>to podcasts, or maybe it's the older people because obviously

1:01:27.200 --> 1:01:29.640
<v Speaker 1>in his world there'll be a lot of older people.

1:01:29.720 --> 1:01:34.040
<v Speaker 1>Other victims potentially or even witnesses may come forward, so

1:01:34.120 --> 1:01:38.360
<v Speaker 1>any sort of you know, expanding that network. But it

1:01:38.640 --> 1:01:42.760
<v Speaker 1>still does feel yet that we need somebody to go

1:01:42.960 --> 1:01:44.360
<v Speaker 1>that little bit further.

1:01:44.640 --> 1:01:45.240
<v Speaker 6>Well let's hope.

1:01:45.240 --> 1:01:47.280
<v Speaker 14>So, I mean, I still stand by the forty one

1:01:47.320 --> 1:01:50.760
<v Speaker 14>points a circumstantial evidence, and I still feel that it's

1:01:50.800 --> 1:01:51.960
<v Speaker 14>a very compelling case.

1:01:52.640 --> 1:01:58.240
<v Speaker 1>Invest the resources, do the extra digging, and yeah, let's

1:01:58.280 --> 1:02:00.680
<v Speaker 1>get this solved, because it can be. And when you

1:02:00.720 --> 1:02:02.280
<v Speaker 1>look at I don't know, I mean, I know you

1:02:02.320 --> 1:02:04.120
<v Speaker 1>looked at the Dawson case, and I won't go too

1:02:04.160 --> 1:02:06.560
<v Speaker 1>much into it again because we did last time. But

1:02:07.200 --> 1:02:09.400
<v Speaker 1>when you look at the evidence against Blam and the

1:02:09.440 --> 1:02:11.160
<v Speaker 1>evidence against Dawson and.

1:02:11.200 --> 1:02:15.240
<v Speaker 14>Forty one points, I found they were only the significant ones,

1:02:15.360 --> 1:02:18.760
<v Speaker 14>like the coroner did when actually went the pertinent matters,

1:02:18.800 --> 1:02:20.120
<v Speaker 14>as did I.

1:02:20.160 --> 1:02:20.920
<v Speaker 6>And that's what I mean.

1:02:22.280 --> 1:02:27.480
<v Speaker 14>Who is genuinely committed to finding answers here and the

1:02:27.560 --> 1:02:30.880
<v Speaker 14>case built on circumstantial evidence.

1:02:31.400 --> 1:02:31.640
<v Speaker 6>I mean.

1:02:31.680 --> 1:02:33.880
<v Speaker 14>The other matter is that now there has been this finding,

1:02:33.920 --> 1:02:38.280
<v Speaker 14>some mister Rick Bloom will probably be signing a big

1:02:38.320 --> 1:02:42.000
<v Speaker 14>sigh of relief and feel that that's the end of

1:02:42.040 --> 1:02:45.200
<v Speaker 14>the matter and it's been kicked into.

1:02:44.960 --> 1:02:45.680
<v Speaker 6>The long grass.

1:02:45.720 --> 1:02:48.240
<v Speaker 14>And I really hope that that is not the sense,

1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:51.960
<v Speaker 14>I really do, because there is much more.

1:02:52.120 --> 1:02:54.080
<v Speaker 6>That can be done with this case.

1:02:55.920 --> 1:02:58.720
<v Speaker 14>Well, the coroner saying that Marion is deceased, that's another

1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:01.200
<v Speaker 14>big point for Sally because now she can get the

1:03:01.200 --> 1:03:06.440
<v Speaker 14>death certificate and then our certain information can be hopefully

1:03:07.040 --> 1:03:10.080
<v Speaker 14>can she can find other pieces of information because she

1:03:10.200 --> 1:03:12.520
<v Speaker 14>now can produce the death certificate.

1:03:12.560 --> 1:03:14.400
<v Speaker 6>And I know there's a challenge around the name.

1:03:15.440 --> 1:03:18.280
<v Speaker 14>And I noticed that the coroner kept referring to her

1:03:19.040 --> 1:03:24.040
<v Speaker 14>with the name change, you know, and saying Florabella and

1:03:24.120 --> 1:03:27.240
<v Speaker 14>Nalia Marion Remecau. Well, of course she lived her whole

1:03:27.280 --> 1:03:32.240
<v Speaker 14>life still months before she left as maret. So I

1:03:32.280 --> 1:03:36.320
<v Speaker 14>hope that more information can be retrieved by Sally, and

1:03:36.360 --> 1:03:38.080
<v Speaker 14>that's an important part of this process.

1:03:38.080 --> 1:03:39.800
<v Speaker 6>But it happened a long time ago.

1:03:40.360 --> 1:03:42.920
<v Speaker 1>Well that's the thing, isn't That new evidence can also

1:03:43.000 --> 1:03:47.880
<v Speaker 1>trigger other mechanisms in the justice system that can get

1:03:47.920 --> 1:03:52.160
<v Speaker 1>them to revisit. And it's clear what has happened to

1:03:52.200 --> 1:03:54.840
<v Speaker 1>marry In though so, and I think even to the

1:03:54.880 --> 1:03:58.400
<v Speaker 1>coroner without saying as much, she does not feel like

1:03:58.560 --> 1:04:00.320
<v Speaker 1>it's as much of a mystery any more.

1:04:00.760 --> 1:04:04.640
<v Speaker 14>No, we're saying the circumstances are troubling and knowing that

1:04:04.680 --> 1:04:08.200
<v Speaker 14>they are tied together. She doesn't believe what he has said,

1:04:08.240 --> 1:04:11.080
<v Speaker 14>but it's what you can prove, and that's ostensibly what

1:04:11.160 --> 1:04:14.840
<v Speaker 14>she was saying. It's what can be proven. If you've

1:04:16.200 --> 1:04:20.080
<v Speaker 14>that that's the money from her account to his, then

1:04:20.120 --> 1:04:24.000
<v Speaker 14>it's very clear evidence. But at times with cases you

1:04:24.120 --> 1:04:26.960
<v Speaker 14>have to take that leap with all these points.

1:04:27.080 --> 1:04:28.320
<v Speaker 6>Can you say that the.

1:04:28.240 --> 1:04:31.600
<v Speaker 14>Money transferred if Marian was encouraged to give the money

1:04:31.640 --> 1:04:35.800
<v Speaker 14>to Rick Bloom and that money transfers and then she disappears,

1:04:36.840 --> 1:04:40.680
<v Speaker 14>who's got means motive and opportunity And often we don't

1:04:40.720 --> 1:04:44.040
<v Speaker 14>have all the details with cases, so you know, but

1:04:44.120 --> 1:04:46.600
<v Speaker 14>forty one points is not anything to.

1:04:48.800 --> 1:04:50.640
<v Speaker 6>Feel is inconsequential.

1:04:51.280 --> 1:04:54.840
<v Speaker 14>It's a huge amount of evidence that points in direction

1:04:55.000 --> 1:04:57.360
<v Speaker 14>to Rick Blum, but I felt she was just hesitant

1:04:57.440 --> 1:04:59.320
<v Speaker 14>to go to the next stage.

1:05:00.200 --> 1:05:02.400
<v Speaker 6>If it were to go to trial. Like with KRITS.

1:05:02.480 --> 1:05:05.880
<v Speaker 14>Dawson's case, a lot of fission and evidence was presented.

1:05:06.160 --> 1:05:08.520
<v Speaker 6>The judge was very thorough in.

1:05:09.680 --> 1:05:14.160
<v Speaker 14>His summing up of his decision, and it always comes

1:05:14.160 --> 1:05:15.240
<v Speaker 14>back to that it's.

1:05:15.080 --> 1:05:16.280
<v Speaker 6>The execution of it.

1:05:16.320 --> 1:05:19.520
<v Speaker 14>If it was presented in the right way to a

1:05:19.600 --> 1:05:22.360
<v Speaker 14>judge and jury, it can make the right decision of

1:05:22.600 --> 1:05:26.960
<v Speaker 14>that next leap of who's on her timeline. They go

1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:31.200
<v Speaker 14>to England, they returned to Australia. Is married, he has

1:05:31.280 --> 1:05:35.960
<v Speaker 14>no so I told her I was married. That's when

1:05:35.960 --> 1:05:40.920
<v Speaker 14>it ended. And I believe that that's and times you

1:05:41.000 --> 1:05:45.400
<v Speaker 14>have to look at the probability of what's the chance

1:05:45.440 --> 1:05:48.000
<v Speaker 14>of it being somebody else who disappears Marian or she

1:05:48.080 --> 1:05:53.840
<v Speaker 14>disappeared herself versus he didn't get the outcome he wanted

1:05:53.880 --> 1:05:57.160
<v Speaker 14>and she challenged him. That's much more lightly but that

1:05:57.200 --> 1:05:59.640
<v Speaker 14>should be up to a court to decide.

1:06:00.480 --> 1:06:02.320
<v Speaker 6>And maybe you know, in the best.

1:06:02.120 --> 1:06:05.480
<v Speaker 14>Possible case, you've got new South Wales Police who are

1:06:05.600 --> 1:06:08.000
<v Speaker 14>following lines of investigation.

1:06:08.840 --> 1:06:11.360
<v Speaker 6>And that they've been doing that in the background. I

1:06:11.400 --> 1:06:12.320
<v Speaker 6>can't talk to that.

1:06:12.520 --> 1:06:15.280
<v Speaker 14>I would hope that they are doing that and that

1:06:15.320 --> 1:06:20.880
<v Speaker 14>they certainly do as the coroner requested, which is it's

1:06:20.880 --> 1:06:23.320
<v Speaker 14>a continuing it's an ongoing investigation.

1:06:29.280 --> 1:06:32.560
<v Speaker 1>So to recap. The coroner found that while she cannot

1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:39.640
<v Speaker 1>say how or where it happened, Marion is deceased. She

1:06:39.840 --> 1:06:43.160
<v Speaker 1>found that Rick Blum was in a relationship with Marion,

1:06:43.360 --> 1:06:47.520
<v Speaker 1>which is why she changed her name to Remicel, and

1:06:47.560 --> 1:06:51.080
<v Speaker 1>that he persuaded her to sell her house and took

1:06:51.160 --> 1:06:53.360
<v Speaker 1>possession of her belongings.

1:06:54.320 --> 1:06:56.880
<v Speaker 8>That he lured her overseas with the promise of a

1:06:56.920 --> 1:07:00.360
<v Speaker 8>new life, that he played some role in her life

1:07:00.400 --> 1:07:04.720
<v Speaker 8>after she returned to Australia right before she vanished, and

1:07:04.840 --> 1:07:08.840
<v Speaker 8>that his lies and deception convinced the coroner that mister

1:07:08.880 --> 1:07:11.680
<v Speaker 8>Bloom does indeed no more than he is saying.

1:07:12.640 --> 1:07:15.400
<v Speaker 1>She found it is up to police to decide whether

1:07:15.480 --> 1:07:18.840
<v Speaker 1>to charge rit Blum with perjury and she has referred

1:07:18.880 --> 1:07:22.200
<v Speaker 1>the case to the New South Wales Police Homicide Squad

1:07:22.480 --> 1:07:28.280
<v Speaker 1>to investigate further and hopefully solve the likely murder of

1:07:28.480 --> 1:07:29.360
<v Speaker 1>Marion Barter.

1:07:34.560 --> 1:07:35.080
<v Speaker 8>We put some.

1:07:35.160 --> 1:07:38.480
<v Speaker 1>Questions to New South Wales Police media asking whether they

1:07:38.480 --> 1:07:42.880
<v Speaker 1>will charge rit Blum with anything. We also asked if

1:07:42.920 --> 1:07:46.520
<v Speaker 1>Sally would get an apology. This was their response.

1:07:47.280 --> 1:07:51.200
<v Speaker 9>The New South Wales Police Force will consider the coronial findings.

1:07:51.600 --> 1:07:54.720
<v Speaker 9>The matter has been referred to the Homicide Squad Unsolved

1:07:54.760 --> 1:08:00.960
<v Speaker 9>Homicide Team for ongoing monitoring and assessment. One thousand dollars

1:08:00.960 --> 1:08:04.680
<v Speaker 9>reward remains on offer for information into the nineteen ninety

1:08:04.720 --> 1:08:09.800
<v Speaker 9>seven suspicious disappearance of Marion Barter. Anyone who may have

1:08:09.920 --> 1:08:14.480
<v Speaker 9>information that can assist strikeforced younger investigators is urged to

1:08:14.560 --> 1:08:16.640
<v Speaker 9>contact police.

1:08:16.920 --> 1:08:20.479
<v Speaker 1>Just a reminder, the crime Stoppers number is one eight hundred,

1:08:20.760 --> 1:08:25.360
<v Speaker 1>triple three, triple zero.

1:08:27.400 --> 1:08:30.559
<v Speaker 8>We have written an account of this podcast from its inception,

1:08:31.040 --> 1:08:34.360
<v Speaker 8>tracing the remarkable twists and turns of a story you

1:08:34.400 --> 1:08:38.839
<v Speaker 8>can only believe because it's true, one that has spanned

1:08:38.880 --> 1:08:42.600
<v Speaker 8>eight decades and taken us across the world, discovering a

1:08:42.640 --> 1:08:46.639
<v Speaker 8>story unique in true crime podcasting. Marian was not even

1:08:46.680 --> 1:08:51.880
<v Speaker 8>listed as missing when we began. Publisher HarperCollins will launch

1:08:51.960 --> 1:08:56.080
<v Speaker 8>The Lady Vanishers the book on May fifteenth. If you're

1:08:56.120 --> 1:08:59.120
<v Speaker 8>after a copy of the first print or audiobook, it's

1:08:59.160 --> 1:09:04.120
<v Speaker 8>available for porder right now, and you can help support

1:09:04.360 --> 1:09:07.439
<v Speaker 8>Gulaine Dubois d'ar nois, the eighty nine year old who

1:09:07.520 --> 1:09:10.599
<v Speaker 8>was duped of her life savings by purchasing the book

1:09:10.640 --> 1:09:15.320
<v Speaker 8>from Schoolwork Supplies Educational resources and Books, who will donate

1:09:15.400 --> 1:09:19.360
<v Speaker 8>ten percent of every purchase to Julane's go fund me account.

1:09:19.880 --> 1:09:28.080
<v Speaker 8>We'll put a link on our Facebook page.

1:09:32.760 --> 1:09:35.800
<v Speaker 1>This is the final episode of The Lady Vanishers.

1:09:37.640 --> 1:09:41.479
<v Speaker 8>That said, we'll stay across any major developments and let

1:09:41.520 --> 1:09:42.840
<v Speaker 8>you know about them.

1:09:43.000 --> 1:09:45.360
<v Speaker 1>You can still send us tips and information if you

1:09:45.479 --> 1:09:49.639
<v Speaker 1>know something. For all of us, it's been a labor

1:09:49.680 --> 1:09:53.840
<v Speaker 1>of love, involving thousands of hours outside our paid jobs,

1:09:54.160 --> 1:09:58.240
<v Speaker 1>pursuing a story that no one initially cared about, to

1:09:58.320 --> 1:10:03.280
<v Speaker 1>help a daughter convince that something had happened to her mother.

1:10:07.439 --> 1:10:10.599
<v Speaker 8>From the beginning, we hoped to trigger an inquest into

1:10:10.600 --> 1:10:14.920
<v Speaker 8>Marian's disappearance, but first we had to convince the authorities

1:10:14.960 --> 1:10:17.920
<v Speaker 8>that she was missing and coax the police into action,

1:10:18.640 --> 1:10:23.000
<v Speaker 8>and find the clues that transformed this case from obscurity

1:10:23.560 --> 1:10:25.640
<v Speaker 8>to public awareness worldwide.

1:10:26.320 --> 1:10:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to the millions of people listening in Australia

1:10:29.720 --> 1:10:30.880
<v Speaker 1>and around the world.

1:10:33.680 --> 1:10:36.480
<v Speaker 8>Thank you to all those who reached out with information,

1:10:36.800 --> 1:10:38.520
<v Speaker 8>tips and support.

1:10:40.360 --> 1:10:43.720
<v Speaker 1>Thank you to the brave women who came forward to

1:10:43.880 --> 1:10:45.639
<v Speaker 1>share their stories with us.

1:10:47.439 --> 1:10:49.000
<v Speaker 8>Thank you Sally Laden.

1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:56.639
<v Speaker 1>Now there is only one thing left to say. From

1:10:56.720 --> 1:10:58.680
<v Speaker 1>me Alison Sandy.

1:10:58.680 --> 1:11:00.080
<v Speaker 8>From me Brian seem.

1:11:00.400 --> 1:11:03.680
<v Speaker 2>And from behind the scenes me Sally Eels.

1:11:03.720 --> 1:11:14.760
<v Speaker 15>And from your audio guy Mark Wright, goodbye bye.

1:11:28.960 --> 1:11:32.080
<v Speaker 1>If you knew Marion or have any information about her

1:11:32.479 --> 1:11:35.080
<v Speaker 1>or her whereabouts, we'd love to hear from you.

1:11:37.240 --> 1:11:41.519
<v Speaker 8>Our website is Sevennews dot com dot au slash news

1:11:41.800 --> 1:11:45.120
<v Speaker 8>slash the Lady Vanishers and you can also message us here.

1:11:45.680 --> 1:11:48.439
<v Speaker 8>You can also send us an anonymous tip at the

1:11:48.560 --> 1:11:50.080
<v Speaker 8>Lady Vanishers dot org.

1:11:53.200 --> 1:11:56.440
<v Speaker 1>If you like what you're hearing, don't forget to subscribe.

1:11:56.720 --> 1:12:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Please rate and review our series. It helps you Listeners

1:12:00.240 --> 1:12:00.720
<v Speaker 1>find us.

1:12:02.680 --> 1:12:05.760
<v Speaker 8>Presenter and executive producer Alison Sandy.

1:12:06.640 --> 1:12:09.640
<v Speaker 1>Investigative journalist Brian Seymour.

1:12:09.840 --> 1:12:12.000
<v Speaker 8>Writer and producer Sally Yields.

1:12:12.800 --> 1:12:14.560
<v Speaker 1>Sound design Mark.

1:12:14.320 --> 1:12:17.040
<v Speaker 8>Wright, graphics Jason Blandford.

1:12:18.240 --> 1:12:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Translation and transcripts are Stelle Sanchez.

1:12:22.479 --> 1:12:25.800
<v Speaker 8>The theme and much of the music by Nicholas Gasparini

1:12:25.840 --> 1:12:29.960
<v Speaker 8>at the Darkpiano dot com.

1:12:30.000 --> 1:12:32.480
<v Speaker 1>Thanks again to Alliance Franseie.

1:12:34.520 --> 1:12:36.479
<v Speaker 8>This is a seven News production.